Other guy in comments is right Jeffries was only about 6'2 not 6'6, however him running 100 yards in 10 seconds seems to be true so I doubt he was as awkward as this guy makes him out.
What is he talking about Jim Jeffries is considered one of the best athletes to ever step into the ring. He could run 100 yards in 10 seconds and jump 6 feet at 6'6 230 pounds.
Johnson, imho, is one of the most OVERATED heavyweights. He is a guy whose written exploits just dont jive with film records. He was a early 20th century version of John Ruiz. Block, Block, Hug, Laugh, Talk Shit, Punch once or twice, Shove, Talk shit again, Hug. That was Jack Johnson.
crazy,these guys have some fundamentels wrong,jeffrys was NOT 6 FOOT 6,for example.the harry wills thing was wrong too..the with the rug on is esp inaccurate.
Sam Langford was the greatest of all time, but he was a middleweight fighting heavyweights, Jack Johnson couldnt knock him out and refused to fight him again. Johnson was untested at heavyweight, nobody came close to defeating him. Dempsey is too small I say Marciano beats him but either way, both men lose to sonny liston, who lost to muhammad ali... George Foreman deserves mention on the list, as if it werent for ali, Foreman would widely be considered far and away the latest jack johnson.
@levizer If I had to guess, I'd say it was because Johnson fought before the modern era. I guarandamntee that not every aspect of his career has been documented by anybody. He is without a doubt the most compelling story in boxing history, if not sports history in general.
this documentary was made before the internet was around/popular, so sometimes it was impossible to keep track of foreign fighters records like Johnson and Corbett and Fitzsimmons
if you check back to boxingrec every few months or so, occasionally for these older fighters in the early 20th century/late 19th century, another fight will appear on their records
apparently they still dont know every single fight that these fellas have had to this day haha!
You're right he knocks Dempsey for basically the same thing that Johnson did, but worships Johnson. He talks like Britain was racist free, hardly. And yes, after fighting Sam Langford once, Johnson wouldn't fight him again, Bert Sugar talks a lot about this. Dempsey's manager wouldn't let him fight Wills. Many of Dempsey's sparring partners were black including George Godfrey. The guy's a pseudo-historian at best. McGuigan is the only bright light here.
You're also exaggerating Clay's dominance. Like I said, only 2 rounds were clearly Ali's, the rest just him running and Liston chasing, not much to choose between them, and that's why the official cards and those at ringside were split.
So Liston who fought Marty Marshall with a broken jaw and took flush shots from Cleve Williams suddenly quits because he has a nosebleed and a few cuts? C'mon.
No, he quit because he was clearly losing as Joe Louis says, and as technical as Joe Louis is, I am sure he was quite accurate in his analysis. after about round 3.
No he quit because he had a legitimate shoulder injury, confirmed by his medical examination after the fight. All this nonsense about throwing in the towel because he had a nosebleed or because young Clay was putting on some kinda masterclass is, well, nonsense.
FlaviusConstantius - you gotta be kidding... Come up with facts...J JOHNSON FOLLOWED WHITE CHAMPIONS AROUND THE WORLD TO CHALLENGE THEM. THEY DODGED HIM. ALI's greatness was his tenacity..He always got back up...Are you saying George Foreman in his prime was a bum? I don't think so...Sonny Liston was considered the Tyson of his era... Ali beat him... I think Gene Tunney was a beast! He always had a strategy. That impressed me.
Yeah, JJ followed Burns, the smallest heavyweight champ in history around the world. Whoopee frickin' do. Langford chased Johnson around the world for a fight, but JJ wanted no part of him, preferring to face journeymen and middleweights.
Liston was damn near 40 and quit on his stool after 6 rounds of an uneventful fight and then a year later got KO'd by a phantom punch. Both outcomes questionable to this day, as is the case for numerous Ali fights.
Born anywhere 1928-1932....36 is max. age. Not questionable, the bullies quit because Ali dealt with them. Why did he try to cheat if he were fixing to take a dive? Why was he poor if he were paid off in either case?
Young terrified Clay running faster than old man Liston could chase is hardly dealing with a bully. More like young Clay catching Sonny and the mob off guard. The shoulder injury was confirmed by x-rays too.
Common knowledge that Liston was a mobbed up fighter, and mobbed up fighters do what they're told. Also well known that Sonny was several years older than advertised, likely closer to 40 than 30.
Are you saying he landed no punches? You can't be serious! Clay started on the offensive from the opening bell. If he only ran why was Liston busted up and puffy around both eyes. Never tried to cheat? What was the cut stuff smeared all over the gloves? The bottle that it came from was also thrown underneath the ring. His max age would have been 35 or 36. His listed year of birth was 1932. He may have been born as early as 1928 which makes him 35 or 36 in January 1964. He had his rematch.
Running ain't an offensive, and it sure doesn't make a fight some kind of masterclass. The fight was dead even on the cards after 6.
I'm well aware of the stuff in Clay's eyes. But please, show me any credible source which proves that was an attempt by Liston to cheat. It was probably Monsel's Solution, which they were using to treat his cut.
His listed year of birth was 1932, but like I said no one really believes that. Sonny was several years older than advertised and probably closer to 40.
You complain about questionable decisions and you buy into that judging. Ali won every round except the 5th where he was blinded. Look at Liston's face and at Ali's and watch the fight, nobody face gets like Liston's in that fight with love taps. No way that fight was even. In all of Ali's close decisions except for the loss to Frazier, no sign of wear and tear on his face. Even your hero Joe Louis had Ali way ahead a couple of rounds before it ended. Possible dob is 1928, 36yrs max.
I agree with the scorecards when they reflect what's happened in the ring. Early rounds were pretty even . Clay running like a scalded cat while old man Liston lumbered after him is no masterclass. Clay only won 2 decisively, and the 1-1-1 cards reflected that.
Last I heard no one knew Sonny's dob, least of all himself, so dunno how you do. Point is, Sonny was several years older than advertised, past prime, and likely closer to 40 than 30
He ran and hit, Liston's face was busted up, from what? A poltergeist? Clay also rocked him in the 3rd round and had him hurt. Only round 5 could decisively be given to Liston while Clay was blind. Again, do the math, as early as 1928, that makes him 36 if his birthday was in January and 35 if later. Past prime, he just came off of two destructions of Patterson and had little wear and tear in his career.
Considering no one knew his dob, least of all Sonny, I'd be interested to how you can speak with such clarity on the issue. One of his arrest sheets gave it as 1927, for instance.
Age 36 would put him well beyond his prime years, which added to him being rusty from having only had 6 rounds of boxing in the last 4 years, I'd say qualifies him for past prime and underprepared.
Little wear and tear but more than accounted for with ring rust, something a lot harder to shake off in old age. So that's 6 rounds of boxing in 4 years added to Sonny's well known lax training regime for that fight.
You see, Sonny didn't think much of young Clay, and expected an easy 6 round fight after seeing his struggles with Cooper/Jones.
The rematch? One of the most flagrant dives in history. Joe Louis thought so. Jack Dempsey thought so. Floyd Patterson thought so etc etc
What motivation did Liston have to dive other than fear of losing again. The odds were 6-5 in favour of Liston and not substantial enough to fix the fight. If Liston was controlled by the Mob, it does not make sense that they would have Liston dive and have an Ali with no mob connections keep the title. Watch the fight, Liston got clock pretty hard on a punch just prior to the controversial one. That could have been enough to tell him it was not his night. He was a bully, and bullies quit.
There's no if about it. Liston was controlled by the mob. When they say jump, a fighter asks how high.
The punch had no power on it. You can even try the shot yourself. Not enough for a moderate hitter like Ali to flatten iron chinned Liston.
It's pretty telling that Liston was the favorite at all for the 2nd fight, considering most now see Ali as putting on some kind of masterclass, not like back in the day when it was viewed as Clay being the lucky beneficiary of circumstances.
True, that about the mob. But, they had no reason to have Liston dive for that one, there was almost equal money on the table if he had won with the odds at 6-5 for Liston. It makes no sense that the mob would have a fighter dive with those odds while giving up any hope of regaining control of the title as Ali had no mob connections. If it were a dive Liston punked out similar to the Tyson ear biting incident where both could tell they were losing early on.
Liston was getting on in years. He'd been around for years, was drinking and gambling and not doing much training any more, so they cleaned up against an underdog. Imagine the odds you'd get for Ali winning with a first round KO.
Getting on in years, he had just destroyed Patterson in rd. 1 twice. Show me the odds, they pretty much had lost all control of the Heavyweight title almost for good because of that. You speak rematches, Liston had his chance, and apparently, according to himself prior to the fight was in the best shape of his life. Have him regain the title, if he is so great, then wait for a mob controlled to take a dive against. Big money, boxers get an incentive for that; why was Liston and his family poor?
Harry Wills would have knocked Jack Dempsey's rack out. Period! JACK JOHNSON WAS THE GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALLTIME. He over came more odds than all those white fighters combined.... The guy had BIG BALLS... He was self educated...Spoke multiple languages... This is a guy who came from the gutter. You can't compare.. Ali is another great because he didn't dodge the demons.. He competed with the best of the day...He also came back from defeat multiple times...
Jack Johnson dodged probably more top fighters than any other heavyweight champion in history...He ignored a gaggle of quality black contenders in favor of defending against middleweights and journeymen.
Ali is much like Johnson in that he is a great historical figure whose legend outstrips his accomplishments, which are overrated by his legions of fans.
The real myth in boxing is Ali, who Hart and co fawn over. He's a perfect example of a fighter who gets rated more for his iconic status and magnetic personality than his actual ring performances, many of which were downright awful or otherwise controversial.
Like Louis' high rating for sentimental reasons. Best wins were Schmeling, Max Baer, and Walcott II. not even in the same league as Liston, Frazier, and Foreman who all consistently get consideration for top 5 or top 10 of all time, and Foreman sometimes and high as 2 or 1. Louis' best opponents? Not even close.
No fighter's high rating owes more to sentiment and popular appeal than Ali, whose legend outstrips his accomplishments. Back in the 60s most old timers didn't even regard him as top ten material.
Fact is, the guy had a helluva lot of close and disputed wins, and others where he benefited from unique circumstances, with his only spell of dominance a 3 year run in the 60s when his opposition was average at best.
Actually most did after Liston was defeated, and the rest of the division didn't even come close. Yes, dig for unusual circumstances to support your guy, especially with the Foreman fight, because that is the of a few wins and the best that discounts any thought of Louis being better. Foreman even admits he lost that fight legitimately.
Foreman does now, although he didn't at the time and was pretty vociferous in wanting a rematch. I suspect he just enjoys being gracious in defeat now his own legacy is secure.
I'd say extraordinarily loose ropes, being unable to spar a month prior to the fight and being effectively held prisoner in army barracks in a third world backwater counts as "unusual circumstances".
Actually it was the reverse, he came up with all of the excuses in the book and that is why the pining for a rematch. These immediate rematches are reserved for close bouts, not KO by 8. He later stated that he was only making excuses and that he lost because of Ali's wits and ability to take a punch because he hit Ali with quote 'Some of the hardest shots I ever delivered on a man'. Moore was in Foreman's corner and said that Ali would have come up with something else to win if not ropes.
Liston got an immediate rematch with Ali. Patterson got immediate rematches with Liston and Ingo. Ali got immediate rematches with Leon and Norton. Tyson got an immediate rematch with Holy.
Ali's fight diary was hardly crammed with big bouts post-74. Half his defenses were against journeyman-level opponents. There was room for Foreman and the money for the fight was there.
Ali's greatness is Liston to Frazier III. Jan 1964-1975. That is 11 years, hardly a flash in the pan. And again, Louis has no hope against the Foreman, Liston, or Frazier that Ali Beat.
Don't see much greatness in the flukish/thrown fights with old man Liston. Ali's title defenses in the 60s were against weak opposition. Don't see much greatness in beating Chuvalo, Terrell and Williams.
Ali lost to the best Frazier he faced. The half blind/half shot Frazier and old/undertrained/diving Liston that Ali beat could also be beat by Louis. The wild Zaire Foreman who couldn't prepare properly and was knackered after 3 rounds? Louis has "no hope" against him?!
Yes, Louis has no hope against Foreman or Frazier as he was never pressured the way those two can apply pressure and they both were bigger and hit heavier. Louis' power only looks big against light-heavies, and light hitting circus strongmen who made Foreman look like a stylist.
Light heavies and circus strongmen, eh? Ali only ever looked good against punchbags who lumbered after him or stood there while he flurried them. Any boxer with even a little technique made him look bad. Even doorman Chuck Wepner roughed him up.
Must not have seen Louis' fight with Godoy, a rough, tough Frazier-esque swarmer with an iron chin, whom Louis destroyed. Louis' rep was for KO'ing men who'd never been KO'd or even down before. How many iron chins did Foreman/Frazier/Ali KO?
you do knwo that terrell was rated at the time right? and williams we still good (tho noth the fighter he was since he was shot). and the 1st listion fight, listion was still a good fighter.. and we both know foreman woudl rape louis. you know it mate.
Again compare prime vs. prime. Ali defeated a Foreman who would anniliate any version of Louis. Of couse Patterson got an immediate rematches, first title defenses are where the first paycheques are in Ingo's case and he did not have a prayer against Liston.
@dukedds so uh where did u get foreman would beat ANY VERSION OF LOUIS?Thats patently ridiculous,foreman couldnt even handle jimmy young[at his peak] and he dodged quarry.where do people like u get this silly shit??
Ali did not have the ropes loose on purpose, it was something he used when he found that he could not use the original game plan he used in round 1 due to the floor being too soft (In Foreman's favour) for moving and dancing for 15 rds. Even when dancing still hit Foreman and bounced his head back in the first round. Aren't harsh conditions the type that boxers look for to toughen them up. A presidential suite lifestyle is not that. Again, Foreman writes this one as an excuse today.
They couldn't risk his cut being opened up again and further delaying the fight. Harsh or not, I fail to see how those conditions were beneficial to Foreman.
Ali was never going to dance for 15 rounds. Ali never danced for 15 rounds in his whole career. Several people who watched him training for Foreman saw him practicing the rope-a-dope. The loose ropes undoubtedly aided his strategy. He damn near fell out of the ring a couple of times.
Look like Foreman could cut off the ring quite nicely and stated 'landed some of the hardest punches I ever delivered on a man'. So, what was the reasoning behind the softer than usual surface? How would Louis pull off beating Foreman even the one that Ali beat if that makes a difference? Dance?.....LOL, Rope-a Dope?....LOL even harder. He would have the ring cut off and he would have put Louis clear out of the ring. And I am talking a prime Louis, not the one who went through the ropes.
Ali is a quivering bag of jelly today because he spent too much time absorbing punches. In that regard, rope-a-dope was not a wise strategy.
One miraculous win, in unusual circumstances which favored Ali and with no rematch, does not eclipse Louis' career.
George is one of my favs, but he wasn't some invincible behemoth. He had problems with good jabs and would be open for Louis' quick counters, for instance. I don't write off either, but it's assuredly not the mismatch you're claiming.
Best when in the ring is not based on injuries occured, it is based on results. Miraculous, I guess so was Liston and Frazier? Best vs. Best, eclipse anything Louis accompished. Quick counters? not as quick as Ali and barely if at all quicker than Foreman, not the same reach, or the the chin to withstand the pressure. It is a mismatch. Foreman shoving him back would negate any power he would have. (And his power is all shown against light-heavies and circus showmen who were light hitters).
Why say anything if all you can do is trot out old inaccurate cliches about Louis? Light-heavies and circus showmen... Did you see some of the palookas Ali faced?
So now his handspeed is barely quicker than Foreman's... Have you even seen him fight?! Top of your list should be the Baer fight, where "weak chinned" Louis just walked through the hard-hitting Baer's Sunday punch.
PS. Shoving your opponent is actually illegal. But if you feel George has to foul Louis to win, that's up to you.
At leat Ali's best opponents didn't fall under that category. Who were Louis' best wins? Walked through Baer's punches? Baer never landed cleanly and does not have Frazier, Shavers, or Foreman power.
Louis had to foul to beat Schmeling 2nd time. Did not go to a neutral corner and the ref was giving a count. Was was George never called then? Doesn't matter one punch from Foreman whether landed cleanly or not would keep Louis moving back and off-balance, if not knocked into tomorrow.
Heh, obvious you've not seen the fight if you think Baer didn't land cleanly.
How would you describe London, Wepner, Mildenberger, back-from-the-dead Williams, Coopman, Dunn, Spinks and Evangelista? Note I only included ones Ali gave title shots as there were others too.
Louis never fouled to beat Schmeling. No comparison to Ali twice standing over Bonavena as he got up (and the ref allowing him to), and vs Moore/Liston. Guy coulda had several DQs with proper officiating.
@superdave198 no expert ive read has ever agreed foreman would have beat louis,in fact i dont agree either.they are both obviously great boxers but joes skill set was simply to vast,not to mention extrordinary power and conditioning.george couldnt even handle tricky jimmy young,near his peak.trust me joe was much more treacherous than JIMMY YOUNG.joe hit harder than ANY man george ever faced....WITH BOTH HANDS.Louis knocks out a battered george inside 12 rounds.joe slipped and countered perfect
This old guy with a braid is total idiot anyone could have been there instead of him and say all the same shit.
He has some kind of crush for black men that's why he is all the time criticizing white greats. He says Dempsey didn't fight Wills, when it was impossoble for a world champ to fight black fighters in that era. If he had actually compare their record, he could see Dempsey would have beaten him. Dempsey, Tunney, Johnson, Louis were the best up till this point(1940).
lol the truth is carnera is way underrated. All people remember of him is that he was huge, all his opponents tooks dives, and he couldn't fight worth a lick. If you watch him in his prime, he's a damn good fighter. He was enormous, he had legs, and he was quick. Those three things alone make him dangerous.
oh i agree with that, no fighter can last at that level no matter how much they're carried. i just wouldn't put him anywhere near the all-time elite. he had the physical tools to be a great fighter, but he didn't have the skill. i honestly don't think he even enjoyed it that much. he always looked awkward when he would make appearances. like he knew he was being used by Mussolini and the mobsters.
the greatest heavyweight of all time= Primo Carnera No one could ever match his power, speed, skill, and ring generalship. he may well have been the greatest of all time, pound for pound!
Thats bullshit it wasnt that Dempsey wouldnt fight Harry Wills it was just that Tex Rickard who he worked with wouldnt promote another Black vs White fight cause of the mayhem that went down after the Jack Johnson vs Jim Jeffries fight. There was a lot of killing going on after that fight. Because of the fight. He was signed to fight him once but Tex pulled out. Ive seen a ticket stub for the fight.
codymana1 i know about the russian champs.i was talking about the rock being the last hvwy white champ until the rooskies.i love joe louis.where did that come from??and i love jack johnson.thats my right.i was wrong to get red etc.but you were a bit mean yourself.merry Christmas.
cody you sure are a mean green irish jelly bean.face it jack johnson was a much much much better boxer than the tough john l.sullivan.he was a brawler.all boxing experts would agree.even the nigger ones as you call them.homer simpson said it best"always bet on the black guy." d'oh!!!!
im actually italian you fucking duche, and thats not true at all, marciano fought majority black fighters and put them all to sleep, wheres the black contender today, pretty sure all the heavyweight champs are white dumbass
you are a real piece of work.mama mia!!."go get your shinebox".admit it you cant spell.duche??belive?oppertunity?there hasnt been a white heavyweight champion since rocky marciano.i like the russian fighters.ricky hatton's me favorite boxer from england.i like BOTH white and black fighters.and all other colors.joe louis was marcianos life long hero and might have even beaten rocky when he was a young fresh joe louis.how you feel about barak obama???ha ha ha!!!
obamas a communist bitch who does drugs, and rocky was the last white AMERICAN BORN champ jackass, get your facts right, i didnt say i dont like black fighters, i jus dont like jack johnson, saying that joe louis was shit and johnson was great is just ignorant, u no it and i no it
Before you criticise Johnson for not defending his tile against Langford and Jeanette, consider what he went through to win that title and how many fighters dodged him. The game was different in those days and I'm not just talking about the rampant prejudice. Johnson was a great boxer but more importantly a great man.
jack johnson would have beaten that slow motion racist mick potato eating booze swilling irishman any day!!!and beaten the ungentleman james corbett in the same night too!!!sullivan and corbett both were terrified utterly horrified and scared to death of jack johnson.jack johnson was 10 times the boxer sullivan or corbett ever dreamed of being.
im racist, you just made a raceist comment about irish people you stupid nigger, jack johnson would have been fucking murderd, you monkeys are all the same, you think your not raceist because cuz your black, do us all a favor and drink gas blow an aides patient and watch your mouth out with buckshot you fucking toad
codymana1 how did you get that ugly and evil in 27 years??john l.sullivan was the gutless mindless bigot you mule headed cracker!!jack johnson would have beat all those honky white supremacist kkk lovin racist pigs to death.they were afraid of him AND the other black heavyweights.how did you like the election???OBAMA!!!
John L. gutless? You'd never say that to his face (were he living..). John L. was like Sonny Liston before the sport had even developed. I'll take Jeffries>Johnson in their primes, no way Jeffries gets beaten by Choynski for example.
I wouldn't get too excited over Obama, he'll either survive his term and be a one-term failure or he'll piss off the wrong people.
codymana1 raceist??murderd??aides?? you dumb doofey white cracker!!all that opportunity and you cant even spell.learn to spell honky.your dumber than a toad.btw im a caucasian you ignorant dumbell.bluto belushi??how many black folks would have that name on here??DAMN YOU DUMB!!!
i dont belive you, because any self respecting white man wouldnt call a guy racist for saying that a white fighter could beat a black fighter, your fucking racist nigger, and opportunity, i live in richmond cali, there is no oppertunity here jackass
all this talk about race is retarded. i'm black and i acknowledge Louis as the best overall heavyweight with all things considered, but Dempsey is my FAVORITE boxer period. i love his style, his movie-like life story, and have you seen his boxing manual??? it's amazing. the man is an underrated skillful boxer. i am unbiased when it comes to non-boxing issues regarding a fighter (like their personality, morals, race, etc), and I am as fair as possible in how i make my decisions in boxing.
cody, i see you're a fan of sullivan. i certainly respect the guy. him and jack johnson. johnson's masterful defense and technique would keep sullivan away from him. but if the same PRIME sullivan who fought Jake Kilrain, who was lean and heavily conditioned and ruthless, went into the fight against Johnson, the longer the fight went on, the more it would be in Sullivan's favor. corbett fought a sloppy sullivan. in a modern fight, Johnson would win every round. fight to the finish, sullivan.
sullivan wasent prime against killrain, he had 2 cut like 50 pounds and get over his alchohloism,and because of william mulldoon was able 2 beat killrain, he was prime against paddy ryan the 1st time, thats the sullivan that would massacre johnson, dempsey, louis, marciano, ali, holmes, tyson, holyfield, lewis or the klitchko brothers
you're right, i'm sorry about that mix-up! THATS the Sullivan i was talking about! the one who didn't want to sit down between rounds and stood up the entire fight. thats the sullivan who could go the distance with almost all of the other heavyweights, to the finish, out of sheer stamina and pure power. louis and dempsey...i dunno now, those are my boys. haha. but johnson, yes, because johnson seemed to slow down sooner than some others in long wars. as for tyson, prime sullivan stomps him.
i love the movie about gentleman jim corbett.erroll flynn played jim corbett.and ward bond played the great john l.sullivan.its a classic.just a great movie.
to say Johnson was 10 times the boxer Corbett was is going way to far. Sullivan, perhaps. Johnson's technical skill was leagues above Sullivan's. but Corbett, definatly NOT. lets be fair. If a prime Corbett can fight a man like Peter Jackson for hours and hours on end in a technical war, I dont see how he'd be afraid of Johnson. Sullivan wouldn't be afraid of anyone either. He was stubborn, tough, strong as hell and equally mean. read his biography. hate him, or like him, that's how he was.
If Jess Willard can KO Johnson.... why the fuck can't JOHN L SULLIVAN? Are you mad? Sullivan has a punchers chance against pretty much anyone. Sullivan was too old for Johnson, so don't start that shit. Johnson didn't fight Jeffries until he had been retired for years and was 100 pounds over weight, and Corbett was too old and rustic.
And Barry McGuigan was a good fighter but claims here that Jeffries was 6'6", 230 lbs., when in fact Jeff was 6'2", 220-225. This might seem like splitting hairs, but it's basic stuff. When they put a panel together, why can't they find more knowledgeable people than this bunch of windbags?
Anyone else notice that this grey haired old fart criticizes Dempsey for not defending his title often enough (which is true) and for refusing to fight black fighter Harry Wills (which is not true; he agreed to fight Wills twice; promoters dropped the ball), while giving Jack Johnson's a total pass for rarely defending his title and steadfastly refusing to give good black fighters (Langford, Jeannette) a title shot? He's got shit dripping off his nose from kissing Johnson' ass! Get a clue!
I'd fight Johnson instead of Dempsey as well. Johnson had crushing power but only when the shit hit the fan and he had to brawl up close and personal which he didn't like to do because of his chin. He was smart enough NOT to put himself in danger. he was defensive to the max, he'd slip, dodge, parry, shift, and outbox. Dempsey would move forward nonstop at blitzing speeds, destroying you with deadly hooks and uppercuts and grenade-like jabs, and he was hard to hit with the bobbing and weaving!
I repeat: Tony Galento one of the greatest boxers of all time? Tony Galento. Up there with Sam Langford and Sugar Ray Robinson. Tony Galento. He always lost whenever he fought a top contender, except for Lou Nova, whom he fouled to death in a performance which shamed the sport.
audley harrison would get destroyed by either of the klitschkos. he's not even in the same league as any of the top heavies! he's been beaten by danny williams (he did avenge that loss), dominic guinn, michael sprott, and martin rogan. dominic guinn hasn't done anything, and danny williams' claim to fame is that he knocked out and extremely over the hill mike tyson and who are the other guys?? audley harrison hasn't fought anyone, and at his age, will never be world champion caliber.
this has to be the most boringest documentary of all time
aliensupremacy2 1 month ago
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Other guy in comments is right Jeffries was only about 6'2 not 6'6, however him running 100 yards in 10 seconds seems to be true so I doubt he was as awkward as this guy makes him out.
adrenacrumb 1 month ago
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What is he talking about Jim Jeffries is considered one of the best athletes to ever step into the ring. He could run 100 yards in 10 seconds and jump 6 feet at 6'6 230 pounds.
adrenacrumb 1 month ago
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jim jeffries 6'6 ? he was 6 ft 1 1⁄2 jack johnson was the tallest heavyweight at 6'2 until jess willard come along who stood 6 ft 6 1⁄2
Gamezone89 6 months ago
vitaly klitshcko best heavy ever !!!!!
szerszamos 8 months ago
Johnson, imho, is one of the most OVERATED heavyweights. He is a guy whose written exploits just dont jive with film records. He was a early 20th century version of John Ruiz. Block, Block, Hug, Laugh, Talk Shit, Punch once or twice, Shove, Talk shit again, Hug. That was Jack Johnson.
HomicideHenry 9 months ago
crazy,these guys have some fundamentels wrong,jeffrys was NOT 6 FOOT 6,for example.the harry wills thing was wrong too..the with the rug on is esp inaccurate.
dempsey981 1 year ago
Sam Langford was the greatest of all time, but he was a middleweight fighting heavyweights, Jack Johnson couldnt knock him out and refused to fight him again. Johnson was untested at heavyweight, nobody came close to defeating him. Dempsey is too small I say Marciano beats him but either way, both men lose to sonny liston, who lost to muhammad ali... George Foreman deserves mention on the list, as if it werent for ali, Foreman would widely be considered far and away the latest jack johnson.
rediculousnicholas 1 year ago
Joe Louis is the best.
Rockyfan10060 1 year ago
lmfao jim jeffries was 6'2 not 6'6 LOL
AngryScotProductions 1 year ago
the boxing record for jack johnson is different that what it says on boxrec.com
why is this?
levizer 1 year ago
@levizer If I had to guess, I'd say it was because Johnson fought before the modern era. I guarandamntee that not every aspect of his career has been documented by anybody. He is without a doubt the most compelling story in boxing history, if not sports history in general.
chrisg79us 1 year ago
@levizer it is most certainly confusing
this documentary was made before the internet was around/popular, so sometimes it was impossible to keep track of foreign fighters records like Johnson and Corbett and Fitzsimmons
if you check back to boxingrec every few months or so, occasionally for these older fighters in the early 20th century/late 19th century, another fight will appear on their records
apparently they still dont know every single fight that these fellas have had to this day haha!
cazz3000 10 months ago 3
You're right he knocks Dempsey for basically the same thing that Johnson did, but worships Johnson. He talks like Britain was racist free, hardly. And yes, after fighting Sam Langford once, Johnson wouldn't fight him again, Bert Sugar talks a lot about this. Dempsey's manager wouldn't let him fight Wills. Many of Dempsey's sparring partners were black including George Godfrey. The guy's a pseudo-historian at best. McGuigan is the only bright light here.
lizardman77 2 years ago 2
You're also exaggerating Clay's dominance. Like I said, only 2 rounds were clearly Ali's, the rest just him running and Liston chasing, not much to choose between them, and that's why the official cards and those at ringside were split.
So Liston who fought Marty Marshall with a broken jaw and took flush shots from Cleve Williams suddenly quits because he has a nosebleed and a few cuts? C'mon.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
No, he quit because he was clearly losing as Joe Louis says, and as technical as Joe Louis is, I am sure he was quite accurate in his analysis. after about round 3.
superdave198 2 years ago
No he quit because he had a legitimate shoulder injury, confirmed by his medical examination after the fight. All this nonsense about throwing in the towel because he had a nosebleed or because young Clay was putting on some kinda masterclass is, well, nonsense.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
and becuz he was getting banged up.
even trying to cheat didnt help him.
lokk at his face and watch the last round. ali was just to fast for liston. fact
evol121 2 years ago
FlaviusConstantius - you gotta be kidding... Come up with facts...J JOHNSON FOLLOWED WHITE CHAMPIONS AROUND THE WORLD TO CHALLENGE THEM. THEY DODGED HIM. ALI's greatness was his tenacity..He always got back up...Are you saying George Foreman in his prime was a bum? I don't think so...Sonny Liston was considered the Tyson of his era... Ali beat him... I think Gene Tunney was a beast! He always had a strategy. That impressed me.
mauthombeats 2 years ago
Yeah, JJ followed Burns, the smallest heavyweight champ in history around the world. Whoopee frickin' do. Langford chased Johnson around the world for a fight, but JJ wanted no part of him, preferring to face journeymen and middleweights.
Liston was damn near 40 and quit on his stool after 6 rounds of an uneventful fight and then a year later got KO'd by a phantom punch. Both outcomes questionable to this day, as is the case for numerous Ali fights.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Born anywhere 1928-1932....36 is max. age. Not questionable, the bullies quit because Ali dealt with them. Why did he try to cheat if he were fixing to take a dive? Why was he poor if he were paid off in either case?
superdave198 2 years ago
Young terrified Clay running faster than old man Liston could chase is hardly dealing with a bully. More like young Clay catching Sonny and the mob off guard. The shoulder injury was confirmed by x-rays too.
Common knowledge that Liston was a mobbed up fighter, and mobbed up fighters do what they're told. Also well known that Sonny was several years older than advertised, likely closer to 40 than 30.
Btw, Liston never tried to cheat.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Are you saying he landed no punches? You can't be serious! Clay started on the offensive from the opening bell. If he only ran why was Liston busted up and puffy around both eyes. Never tried to cheat? What was the cut stuff smeared all over the gloves? The bottle that it came from was also thrown underneath the ring. His max age would have been 35 or 36. His listed year of birth was 1932. He may have been born as early as 1928 which makes him 35 or 36 in January 1964. He had his rematch.
superdave198 2 years ago
Running ain't an offensive, and it sure doesn't make a fight some kind of masterclass. The fight was dead even on the cards after 6.
I'm well aware of the stuff in Clay's eyes. But please, show me any credible source which proves that was an attempt by Liston to cheat. It was probably Monsel's Solution, which they were using to treat his cut.
His listed year of birth was 1932, but like I said no one really believes that. Sonny was several years older than advertised and probably closer to 40.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
You complain about questionable decisions and you buy into that judging. Ali won every round except the 5th where he was blinded. Look at Liston's face and at Ali's and watch the fight, nobody face gets like Liston's in that fight with love taps. No way that fight was even. In all of Ali's close decisions except for the loss to Frazier, no sign of wear and tear on his face. Even your hero Joe Louis had Ali way ahead a couple of rounds before it ended. Possible dob is 1928, 36yrs max.
superdave198 2 years ago
I agree with the scorecards when they reflect what's happened in the ring. Early rounds were pretty even . Clay running like a scalded cat while old man Liston lumbered after him is no masterclass. Clay only won 2 decisively, and the 1-1-1 cards reflected that.
Last I heard no one knew Sonny's dob, least of all himself, so dunno how you do. Point is, Sonny was several years older than advertised, past prime, and likely closer to 40 than 30
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
He ran and hit, Liston's face was busted up, from what? A poltergeist? Clay also rocked him in the 3rd round and had him hurt. Only round 5 could decisively be given to Liston while Clay was blind. Again, do the math, as early as 1928, that makes him 36 if his birthday was in January and 35 if later. Past prime, he just came off of two destructions of Patterson and had little wear and tear in his career.
superdave198 2 years ago
Considering no one knew his dob, least of all Sonny, I'd be interested to how you can speak with such clarity on the issue. One of his arrest sheets gave it as 1927, for instance.
Age 36 would put him well beyond his prime years, which added to him being rusty from having only had 6 rounds of boxing in the last 4 years, I'd say qualifies him for past prime and underprepared.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
37 tops then. He also had little wear and tear and his last two fights were KO1 of Patterson.
And, he had his rematch, what happened there?
superdave198 2 years ago
Little wear and tear but more than accounted for with ring rust, something a lot harder to shake off in old age. So that's 6 rounds of boxing in 4 years added to Sonny's well known lax training regime for that fight.
You see, Sonny didn't think much of young Clay, and expected an easy 6 round fight after seeing his struggles with Cooper/Jones.
The rematch? One of the most flagrant dives in history. Joe Louis thought so. Jack Dempsey thought so. Floyd Patterson thought so etc etc
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
What motivation did Liston have to dive other than fear of losing again. The odds were 6-5 in favour of Liston and not substantial enough to fix the fight. If Liston was controlled by the Mob, it does not make sense that they would have Liston dive and have an Ali with no mob connections keep the title. Watch the fight, Liston got clock pretty hard on a punch just prior to the controversial one. That could have been enough to tell him it was not his night. He was a bully, and bullies quit.
superdave198 2 years ago
There's no if about it. Liston was controlled by the mob. When they say jump, a fighter asks how high.
The punch had no power on it. You can even try the shot yourself. Not enough for a moderate hitter like Ali to flatten iron chinned Liston.
It's pretty telling that Liston was the favorite at all for the 2nd fight, considering most now see Ali as putting on some kind of masterclass, not like back in the day when it was viewed as Clay being the lucky beneficiary of circumstances.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
True, that about the mob. But, they had no reason to have Liston dive for that one, there was almost equal money on the table if he had won with the odds at 6-5 for Liston. It makes no sense that the mob would have a fighter dive with those odds while giving up any hope of regaining control of the title as Ali had no mob connections. If it were a dive Liston punked out similar to the Tyson ear biting incident where both could tell they were losing early on.
superdave198 2 years ago
Liston was getting on in years. He'd been around for years, was drinking and gambling and not doing much training any more, so they cleaned up against an underdog. Imagine the odds you'd get for Ali winning with a first round KO.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Getting on in years, he had just destroyed Patterson in rd. 1 twice. Show me the odds, they pretty much had lost all control of the Heavyweight title almost for good because of that. You speak rematches, Liston had his chance, and apparently, according to himself prior to the fight was in the best shape of his life. Have him regain the title, if he is so great, then wait for a mob controlled to take a dive against. Big money, boxers get an incentive for that; why was Liston and his family poor?
superdave198 2 years ago
Harry Wills would have knocked Jack Dempsey's rack out. Period! JACK JOHNSON WAS THE GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALLTIME. He over came more odds than all those white fighters combined.... The guy had BIG BALLS... He was self educated...Spoke multiple languages... This is a guy who came from the gutter. You can't compare.. Ali is another great because he didn't dodge the demons.. He competed with the best of the day...He also came back from defeat multiple times...
mauthombeats 2 years ago
Jack Johnson dodged probably more top fighters than any other heavyweight champion in history...He ignored a gaggle of quality black contenders in favor of defending against middleweights and journeymen.
Ali is much like Johnson in that he is a great historical figure whose legend outstrips his accomplishments, which are overrated by his legions of fans.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Colin Hart: "[Dempsey] was a myth"
The real myth in boxing is Ali, who Hart and co fawn over. He's a perfect example of a fighter who gets rated more for his iconic status and magnetic personality than his actual ring performances, many of which were downright awful or otherwise controversial.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Like Louis' high rating for sentimental reasons. Best wins were Schmeling, Max Baer, and Walcott II. not even in the same league as Liston, Frazier, and Foreman who all consistently get consideration for top 5 or top 10 of all time, and Foreman sometimes and high as 2 or 1. Louis' best opponents? Not even close.
superdave198 2 years ago
No fighter's high rating owes more to sentiment and popular appeal than Ali, whose legend outstrips his accomplishments. Back in the 60s most old timers didn't even regard him as top ten material.
Fact is, the guy had a helluva lot of close and disputed wins, and others where he benefited from unique circumstances, with his only spell of dominance a 3 year run in the 60s when his opposition was average at best.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Actually most did after Liston was defeated, and the rest of the division didn't even come close. Yes, dig for unusual circumstances to support your guy, especially with the Foreman fight, because that is the of a few wins and the best that discounts any thought of Louis being better. Foreman even admits he lost that fight legitimately.
superdave198 2 years ago
Foreman does now, although he didn't at the time and was pretty vociferous in wanting a rematch. I suspect he just enjoys being gracious in defeat now his own legacy is secure.
I'd say extraordinarily loose ropes, being unable to spar a month prior to the fight and being effectively held prisoner in army barracks in a third world backwater counts as "unusual circumstances".
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Actually it was the reverse, he came up with all of the excuses in the book and that is why the pining for a rematch. These immediate rematches are reserved for close bouts, not KO by 8. He later stated that he was only making excuses and that he lost because of Ali's wits and ability to take a punch because he hit Ali with quote 'Some of the hardest shots I ever delivered on a man'. Moore was in Foreman's corner and said that Ali would have come up with something else to win if not ropes.
superdave198 2 years ago
Liston got an immediate rematch with Ali. Patterson got immediate rematches with Liston and Ingo. Ali got immediate rematches with Leon and Norton. Tyson got an immediate rematch with Holy.
Ali's fight diary was hardly crammed with big bouts post-74. Half his defenses were against journeyman-level opponents. There was room for Foreman and the money for the fight was there.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Ali's greatness is Liston to Frazier III. Jan 1964-1975. That is 11 years, hardly a flash in the pan. And again, Louis has no hope against the Foreman, Liston, or Frazier that Ali Beat.
dukedds 2 years ago
Don't see much greatness in the flukish/thrown fights with old man Liston. Ali's title defenses in the 60s were against weak opposition. Don't see much greatness in beating Chuvalo, Terrell and Williams.
Ali lost to the best Frazier he faced. The half blind/half shot Frazier and old/undertrained/diving Liston that Ali beat could also be beat by Louis. The wild Zaire Foreman who couldn't prepare properly and was knackered after 3 rounds? Louis has "no hope" against him?!
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Yes, Louis has no hope against Foreman or Frazier as he was never pressured the way those two can apply pressure and they both were bigger and hit heavier. Louis' power only looks big against light-heavies, and light hitting circus strongmen who made Foreman look like a stylist.
dukedds 2 years ago
Light heavies and circus strongmen, eh? Ali only ever looked good against punchbags who lumbered after him or stood there while he flurried them. Any boxer with even a little technique made him look bad. Even doorman Chuck Wepner roughed him up.
Must not have seen Louis' fight with Godoy, a rough, tough Frazier-esque swarmer with an iron chin, whom Louis destroyed. Louis' rep was for KO'ing men who'd never been KO'd or even down before. How many iron chins did Foreman/Frazier/Ali KO?
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
no louis's rep was bum of the month. look i tup.
evol121 2 years ago
you do knwo that terrell was rated at the time right? and williams we still good (tho noth the fighter he was since he was shot). and the 1st listion fight, listion was still a good fighter.. and we both know foreman woudl rape louis. you know it mate.
evol121 2 years ago
Again compare prime vs. prime. Ali defeated a Foreman who would anniliate any version of Louis. Of couse Patterson got an immediate rematches, first title defenses are where the first paycheques are in Ingo's case and he did not have a prayer against Liston.
dukedds 2 years ago
Ali defeated a Foreman who was left poorly prepared due to the circumstances of the fight.
"first title defenses are where the first paycheques are"
Exactly, and a defense against Foreman would assuredly have paid more than Chuck Wepner in Ohio.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
@dukedds so uh where did u get foreman would beat ANY VERSION OF LOUIS?Thats patently ridiculous,foreman couldnt even handle jimmy young[at his peak] and he dodged quarry.where do people like u get this silly shit??
dempsey981 8 months ago
Ali did not have the ropes loose on purpose, it was something he used when he found that he could not use the original game plan he used in round 1 due to the floor being too soft (In Foreman's favour) for moving and dancing for 15 rds. Even when dancing still hit Foreman and bounced his head back in the first round. Aren't harsh conditions the type that boxers look for to toughen them up. A presidential suite lifestyle is not that. Again, Foreman writes this one as an excuse today.
superdave198 2 years ago
They couldn't risk his cut being opened up again and further delaying the fight. Harsh or not, I fail to see how those conditions were beneficial to Foreman.
Ali was never going to dance for 15 rounds. Ali never danced for 15 rounds in his whole career. Several people who watched him training for Foreman saw him practicing the rope-a-dope. The loose ropes undoubtedly aided his strategy. He damn near fell out of the ring a couple of times.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Look like Foreman could cut off the ring quite nicely and stated 'landed some of the hardest punches I ever delivered on a man'. So, what was the reasoning behind the softer than usual surface? How would Louis pull off beating Foreman even the one that Ali beat if that makes a difference? Dance?.....LOL, Rope-a Dope?....LOL even harder. He would have the ring cut off and he would have put Louis clear out of the ring. And I am talking a prime Louis, not the one who went through the ropes.
superdave198 2 years ago
Ali is a quivering bag of jelly today because he spent too much time absorbing punches. In that regard, rope-a-dope was not a wise strategy.
One miraculous win, in unusual circumstances which favored Ali and with no rematch, does not eclipse Louis' career.
George is one of my favs, but he wasn't some invincible behemoth. He had problems with good jabs and would be open for Louis' quick counters, for instance. I don't write off either, but it's assuredly not the mismatch you're claiming.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
Best when in the ring is not based on injuries occured, it is based on results. Miraculous, I guess so was Liston and Frazier? Best vs. Best, eclipse anything Louis accompished. Quick counters? not as quick as Ali and barely if at all quicker than Foreman, not the same reach, or the the chin to withstand the pressure. It is a mismatch. Foreman shoving him back would negate any power he would have. (And his power is all shown against light-heavies and circus showmen who were light hitters).
dukedds 2 years ago
Why say anything if all you can do is trot out old inaccurate cliches about Louis? Light-heavies and circus showmen... Did you see some of the palookas Ali faced?
So now his handspeed is barely quicker than Foreman's... Have you even seen him fight?! Top of your list should be the Baer fight, where "weak chinned" Louis just walked through the hard-hitting Baer's Sunday punch.
PS. Shoving your opponent is actually illegal. But if you feel George has to foul Louis to win, that's up to you.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
At leat Ali's best opponents didn't fall under that category. Who were Louis' best wins? Walked through Baer's punches? Baer never landed cleanly and does not have Frazier, Shavers, or Foreman power.
Louis had to foul to beat Schmeling 2nd time. Did not go to a neutral corner and the ref was giving a count. Was was George never called then? Doesn't matter one punch from Foreman whether landed cleanly or not would keep Louis moving back and off-balance, if not knocked into tomorrow.
dukedds 2 years ago
Heh, obvious you've not seen the fight if you think Baer didn't land cleanly.
How would you describe London, Wepner, Mildenberger, back-from-the-dead Williams, Coopman, Dunn, Spinks and Evangelista? Note I only included ones Ali gave title shots as there were others too.
Louis never fouled to beat Schmeling. No comparison to Ali twice standing over Bonavena as he got up (and the ref allowing him to), and vs Moore/Liston. Guy coulda had several DQs with proper officiating.
FlaviusConstantius 2 years ago
@superdave198 no expert ive read has ever agreed foreman would have beat louis,in fact i dont agree either.they are both obviously great boxers but joes skill set was simply to vast,not to mention extrordinary power and conditioning.george couldnt even handle tricky jimmy young,near his peak.trust me joe was much more treacherous than JIMMY YOUNG.joe hit harder than ANY man george ever faced....WITH BOTH HANDS.Louis knocks out a battered george inside 12 rounds.joe slipped and countered perfect
dempsey981 1 year ago
Why could Foreman not spar? He could cover that cut up in sparring, just not in the match. Again. his excuses were after the fight, not later.
superdave198 2 years ago
This old guy with a braid is total idiot anyone could have been there instead of him and say all the same shit.
He has some kind of crush for black men that's why he is all the time criticizing white greats. He says Dempsey didn't fight Wills, when it was impossoble for a world champ to fight black fighters in that era. If he had actually compare their record, he could see Dempsey would have beaten him. Dempsey, Tunney, Johnson, Louis were the best up till this point(1940).
prklek 2 years ago
ali booomayeh!!
Sirhailz 2 years ago
don't take that too seriously, it was just a joke...
no death threats please!
mikepw15 2 years ago
lol the truth is carnera is way underrated. All people remember of him is that he was huge, all his opponents tooks dives, and he couldn't fight worth a lick. If you watch him in his prime, he's a damn good fighter. He was enormous, he had legs, and he was quick. Those three things alone make him dangerous.
tmotleygoldstein 2 years ago
oh i agree with that, no fighter can last at that level no matter how much they're carried. i just wouldn't put him anywhere near the all-time elite. he had the physical tools to be a great fighter, but he didn't have the skill. i honestly don't think he even enjoyed it that much. he always looked awkward when he would make appearances. like he knew he was being used by Mussolini and the mobsters.
mikepw15 2 years ago
the greatest heavyweight of all time= Primo Carnera No one could ever match his power, speed, skill, and ring generalship. he may well have been the greatest of all time, pound for pound!
mikepw15 2 years ago
Thats bullshit it wasnt that Dempsey wouldnt fight Harry Wills it was just that Tex Rickard who he worked with wouldnt promote another Black vs White fight cause of the mayhem that went down after the Jack Johnson vs Jim Jeffries fight. There was a lot of killing going on after that fight. Because of the fight. He was signed to fight him once but Tex pulled out. Ive seen a ticket stub for the fight.
Quicknsick 3 years ago
best defencive fighter jack johnson
9402003521 3 years ago
the guy putting down dempsey wouldnt know a fighter from a ballet dancer.how stupid can he be.dempsey was a beast.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
codymana1 i know about the russian champs.i was talking about the rock being the last hvwy white champ until the rooskies.i love joe louis.where did that come from??and i love jack johnson.thats my right.i was wrong to get red etc.but you were a bit mean yourself.merry Christmas.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
cody you sure are a mean green irish jelly bean.face it jack johnson was a much much much better boxer than the tough john l.sullivan.he was a brawler.all boxing experts would agree.even the nigger ones as you call them.homer simpson said it best"always bet on the black guy." d'oh!!!!
blutobelushi 3 years ago
im actually italian you fucking duche, and thats not true at all, marciano fought majority black fighters and put them all to sleep, wheres the black contender today, pretty sure all the heavyweight champs are white dumbass
codymana1 3 years ago
you are a real piece of work.mama mia!!."go get your shinebox".admit it you cant spell.duche??belive?oppertunity?there hasnt been a white heavyweight champion since rocky marciano.i like the russian fighters.ricky hatton's me favorite boxer from england.i like BOTH white and black fighters.and all other colors.joe louis was marcianos life long hero and might have even beaten rocky when he was a young fresh joe louis.how you feel about barak obama???ha ha ha!!!
blutobelushi 3 years ago
obamas a communist bitch who does drugs, and rocky was the last white AMERICAN BORN champ jackass, get your facts right, i didnt say i dont like black fighters, i jus dont like jack johnson, saying that joe louis was shit and johnson was great is just ignorant, u no it and i no it
codymana1 3 years ago
Before you criticise Johnson for not defending his tile against Langford and Jeanette, consider what he went through to win that title and how many fighters dodged him. The game was different in those days and I'm not just talking about the rampant prejudice. Johnson was a great boxer but more importantly a great man.
PhamNuwen 3 years ago 2
yeah, also he wasnt allowed most probably because he was a black
whites banned black boxers for a while,
just because they would beat the white boxers to easily, and they didnt like it.
hendrixreincarnation 3 years ago
john l sullivan would have murderd johnson if they were to fight, the boston strong boy was the best fighter who ever lived
codymana1 3 years ago
BULLSHIT...you racist.
jack johnson would have beaten that slow motion racist mick potato eating booze swilling irishman any day!!!and beaten the ungentleman james corbett in the same night too!!!sullivan and corbett both were terrified utterly horrified and scared to death of jack johnson.jack johnson was 10 times the boxer sullivan or corbett ever dreamed of being.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
im racist, you just made a raceist comment about irish people you stupid nigger, jack johnson would have been fucking murderd, you monkeys are all the same, you think your not raceist because cuz your black, do us all a favor and drink gas blow an aides patient and watch your mouth out with buckshot you fucking toad
codymana1 3 years ago
codymana1 how did you get that ugly and evil in 27 years??john l.sullivan was the gutless mindless bigot you mule headed cracker!!jack johnson would have beat all those honky white supremacist kkk lovin racist pigs to death.they were afraid of him AND the other black heavyweights.how did you like the election???OBAMA!!!
blutobelushi 3 years ago
John L. gutless? You'd never say that to his face (were he living..). John L. was like Sonny Liston before the sport had even developed. I'll take Jeffries>Johnson in their primes, no way Jeffries gets beaten by Choynski for example.
I wouldn't get too excited over Obama, he'll either survive his term and be a one-term failure or he'll piss off the wrong people.
spittle8 2 years ago
codymana1 raceist??murderd??aides?? you dumb doofey white cracker!!all that opportunity and you cant even spell.learn to spell honky.your dumber than a toad.btw im a caucasian you ignorant dumbell.bluto belushi??how many black folks would have that name on here??DAMN YOU DUMB!!!
blutobelushi 3 years ago
i dont belive you, because any self respecting white man wouldnt call a guy racist for saying that a white fighter could beat a black fighter, your fucking racist nigger, and opportunity, i live in richmond cali, there is no oppertunity here jackass
codymana1 3 years ago
all this talk about race is retarded. i'm black and i acknowledge Louis as the best overall heavyweight with all things considered, but Dempsey is my FAVORITE boxer period. i love his style, his movie-like life story, and have you seen his boxing manual??? it's amazing. the man is an underrated skillful boxer. i am unbiased when it comes to non-boxing issues regarding a fighter (like their personality, morals, race, etc), and I am as fair as possible in how i make my decisions in boxing.
docdoom187 3 years ago
You're white and you're calling this lad a cracker? I'd like to stomp you. You should be raped.
spittle8 2 years ago
you need to get a job.have mum change your shitty diapers and worry about real life
its easy to be tough on a computer cherry.
blutobelushi 2 years ago
cody, i see you're a fan of sullivan. i certainly respect the guy. him and jack johnson. johnson's masterful defense and technique would keep sullivan away from him. but if the same PRIME sullivan who fought Jake Kilrain, who was lean and heavily conditioned and ruthless, went into the fight against Johnson, the longer the fight went on, the more it would be in Sullivan's favor. corbett fought a sloppy sullivan. in a modern fight, Johnson would win every round. fight to the finish, sullivan.
docdoom187 3 years ago
sullivan wasent prime against killrain, he had 2 cut like 50 pounds and get over his alchohloism,and because of william mulldoon was able 2 beat killrain, he was prime against paddy ryan the 1st time, thats the sullivan that would massacre johnson, dempsey, louis, marciano, ali, holmes, tyson, holyfield, lewis or the klitchko brothers
codymana1 3 years ago
you're right, i'm sorry about that mix-up! THATS the Sullivan i was talking about! the one who didn't want to sit down between rounds and stood up the entire fight. thats the sullivan who could go the distance with almost all of the other heavyweights, to the finish, out of sheer stamina and pure power. louis and dempsey...i dunno now, those are my boys. haha. but johnson, yes, because johnson seemed to slow down sooner than some others in long wars. as for tyson, prime sullivan stomps him.
docdoom187 3 years ago
i think the only fighter who could beat
john l in his prime is ali, he had trouble with boxers like charley mitchell
codymana1 3 years ago
i love the movie about gentleman jim corbett.erroll flynn played jim corbett.and ward bond played the great john l.sullivan.its a classic.just a great movie.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
Whats that movie called and when was it made?
Quicknsick 3 years ago
ive read where sullivan had almost a fight every day of his life on the cobbles.he was an incredible man.a real champion.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
thats the truth
codymana1 3 years ago
to say Johnson was 10 times the boxer Corbett was is going way to far. Sullivan, perhaps. Johnson's technical skill was leagues above Sullivan's. but Corbett, definatly NOT. lets be fair. If a prime Corbett can fight a man like Peter Jackson for hours and hours on end in a technical war, I dont see how he'd be afraid of Johnson. Sullivan wouldn't be afraid of anyone either. He was stubborn, tough, strong as hell and equally mean. read his biography. hate him, or like him, that's how he was.
docdoom187 3 years ago
If Jess Willard can KO Johnson.... why the fuck can't JOHN L SULLIVAN? Are you mad? Sullivan has a punchers chance against pretty much anyone. Sullivan was too old for Johnson, so don't start that shit. Johnson didn't fight Jeffries until he had been retired for years and was 100 pounds over weight, and Corbett was too old and rustic.
spittle8 2 years ago
johnson could have beaten john l. sullivan anytime
cattle7777 2 years ago
Jack Johnson= The GOAT of Heavyweights
BMack07 3 years ago
piss of you racist.johnson was the best you cracker.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
The fuck are you talkin about?? GOAT= Greatest Of All Time
BMack07 3 years ago
my bad BMack07 my apologies.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
jack dempsey = LEGEND
adamdawes87 3 years ago 2
I think thes English guys want to keep getting drunk and fuck each other.
Bigbadben7 3 years ago
And Barry McGuigan was a good fighter but claims here that Jeffries was 6'6", 230 lbs., when in fact Jeff was 6'2", 220-225. This might seem like splitting hairs, but it's basic stuff. When they put a panel together, why can't they find more knowledgeable people than this bunch of windbags?
dempsey00 3 years ago
Anyone else notice that this grey haired old fart criticizes Dempsey for not defending his title often enough (which is true) and for refusing to fight black fighter Harry Wills (which is not true; he agreed to fight Wills twice; promoters dropped the ball), while giving Jack Johnson's a total pass for rarely defending his title and steadfastly refusing to give good black fighters (Langford, Jeannette) a title shot? He's got shit dripping off his nose from kissing Johnson' ass! Get a clue!
dempsey00 3 years ago 3
By the time Dempsey won the title both Jeanette and Langford
were way past there best. Langford was living on reputation
at that time and his recorded was dotted with loses. Wills to
was at is best in 1913-1918. Dempsey would have taken them at that point.
andrewr62 3 years ago
ill take johnson over dempsey any day.
blutobelushi 3 years ago
I'd fight Johnson instead of Dempsey as well. Johnson had crushing power but only when the shit hit the fan and he had to brawl up close and personal which he didn't like to do because of his chin. He was smart enough NOT to put himself in danger. he was defensive to the max, he'd slip, dodge, parry, shift, and outbox. Dempsey would move forward nonstop at blitzing speeds, destroying you with deadly hooks and uppercuts and grenade-like jabs, and he was hard to hit with the bobbing and weaving!
docdoom187 3 years ago
Right, a total crock. I wish Dempsey would have just knocked Wills out so people could stop denying him.
spittle8 2 years ago
I repeat: Tony Galento one of the greatest boxers of all time? Tony Galento. Up there with Sam Langford and Sugar Ray Robinson. Tony Galento. He always lost whenever he fought a top contender, except for Lou Nova, whom he fouled to death in a performance which shamed the sport.
Aurelian147 3 years ago
George Foreman, who ranked Tony Galento as one of the greatest non-champion boxers of all time!
Aurelian147 3 years ago
also George Foreman who backed Audley Harrison to be world champion who would stop V Klitschko in 6 or 7 rounds as well
Unwin85 3 years ago
audley harrison would get destroyed by either of the klitschkos. he's not even in the same league as any of the top heavies! he's been beaten by danny williams (he did avenge that loss), dominic guinn, michael sprott, and martin rogan. dominic guinn hasn't done anything, and danny williams' claim to fame is that he knocked out and extremely over the hill mike tyson and who are the other guys?? audley harrison hasn't fought anyone, and at his age, will never be world champion caliber.
mikepw15 2 years ago
Great shows these that you have been putting up as i didn't see any of them and don't know much about the old british boxers.
secretagentxxxx 4 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Mike 'Why did I get a freakin tattoo on my face?' Tyson is greatest of all time.
Thanks for great video:)
Satori1800 4 years ago
he said tyson greatest of all time.lolololool.tyson not even in top 15.
69chevy68 4 years ago
hes in the top 15!
TigonOrLiger 4 years ago 2