Nobody wants to take down your nativity scene. They want the equal opportunity to share their own views as Americans. If a Muslim wants to put up a display too they should be allowed. If a Jew wants to throw in a menorah they should be allowed. The protesters here are flatly wrong. Ironically you're probably the ones condemning your nativity scene to be removed if you don't allow the atheists as well as others to put up their own display.
@SeekerLancer If you were there, you actually would find out that we did have other religions at the rally. We had a kwanzaa sign right next to the manger. Just to say, that's a very damning statement, and clearly we weren't the ones protesting. The FFRF were the protesters.
PS: With that last statement, I don't truly think you mean any ill-will. Its just that some of the things thrown around without question in religious circles have some quite brutal and/or ignorant connotations behind them ... and I wanted you to think about what you are saying.
@IndyCub86 thanks Indy, it's just I kinda feel outnumbered. I didn't really expect dozens of atheists checking out this video. I mean no hard feelings, it's just what I believe is right. It's really hard to talk about this stuff whenever you aren't face-to-face with people also. And I do have an atheist friend. We argued about this for hours on end. It's just it doesn't seem possible to really come out with a solution. *sigh.
@25Nole25 And yes, I did read quite a few of your comments. It's partially why I quoted what I quoted. To essentially suggest that atheists are so devoid of humanity, morality, that you can't think why they would choose to not murder people instead of kill everybody, is a profoundly ignorant and disturbing statement. Don't say such things if you can't own up to them. I don't even want to get into what that all suggests of your own demons.
@25Nole25 I grew up devout in a devout family. When to a private Christian grade and HS. Heck, considered seminary. I know how other beliefs can be seen as 'hurtful' to a Christian, but you seem to be too entitled to consider similar 'hurt' on the other side. And regardless, having your and only your religious views advocated by the government isn't a "right." You fought and "won" only in squashing other people's rights. If the government is in this at all, it shouldn't be picking sides.
Listen, if you people want to come to a compromise, then why don't you drive to Ellwood City on a determined date, and we'll have a debate about this. We'll have our reasons and you'll have yours. If this is over the internet behind a safe computer screen, then nothing is going to get solved; it will just be like republican vs. democrat bickering.
Morons. Every last one of them. *Sigh* Oh well: Remember the Reason for the Season: THE WINTER SOLSTICE. Happy solstice to all you rationalists out there!
@25Nole25 "And how in what way does it harm you? If you're an atheist, then don't look at the thing." Same thing with the banner. Both or neither should be up. People have a right to a voice, not a right to be sheltered from offense or contradiction to your beliefs. "Might as well kill off the who human race with no hesitation." Are you really saying that your religious belief is the ONLY thing holding back your apparently inherent desire to murder people?!?
@IndyCub86 Did you even read the rest of my comments or just pick little quotes to make me seem like a bad guy? You don't find it hurtful because you're not a Christian. How would you possibly understand? You don't and you never will unless you choose. We never said at the rally, "Burn the atheists! Kill 'em all!" No, we merely wanted to protect our rights, and we won. If I wasn't a Christian, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today. I know that for a fact!
"The atheist group from Wisconsin complained that the display is a violation of the First Amendment clause which prohibits the government from endorsing religion." Quoted from KDKA, our local news station. You're can't say that the quote doesn't imply taking the manger down. Anyways, if the atheists even showed up, maybe we could have come to a compromise. Too bad it didn't happen.
@25Nole25 "It is merely an organization's HURTFUL WORDS written on a banner." For how often I hear all kinds of Christians claim that all kinds of people will be tortured for eternity (and deserve it) ... a little banner just stating a disbelief in god doesn't seem all that 'hurtful' or radical.
These people are functionally retarded. The FFRF never once suggested that the nativity scene should come down. They are protesting against nothing. This is silly.
The atheists were not even pushing to have the manger removed. They just wanted a small display of their own. It's kind of scary that this many people can get so riled up on false pretenses. I suppose the contrary, that this many people knew what was going on and protested so that only their voice may get recognition, is not any better.
@GodVlogger No, it looks like a group of people trying to stop disrespectful people from giving up their beliefs. It's not against the law. Look it up. If you were to give up what you believe in, you would be angry too.
@25Nole25 So you are saying that if the GOVERNMENT does not endorse/display your religious icons you would then "give up your belief" in Christianity? Really?
@GodVlogger There was no endorsement. The government didnt preach to us to love Jesus. According to KDKA, our local news network, a supreme court ruling says that a stand-alone nativity scene is permitted if it is a part of an overall holiday display. We even had a kwanza sign. Atheism is not a religion. In the dictionary, religion is "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods" Therefore the FFRF would've never had a chance of putting up that banner
And how in what way does it harm you? If you're an atheist, then don't look at the thing. Some people look at possessions with pride. Why would you want to take that pride away? Does it make you feel better about yourself? It's all a scheme to get rid of religion - an evil and distraught way of solving a "problem". If atheists don't believe in God, why do they believe government? Obviously supreme powers don't exist. Might as well kill off the who human race with no hesitation.
@25Nole25 Well, constitutional violations should concern us all, yet you imply that we should just look the other way. Should non-Jews have just looked away during the Holocaust? No, we see areas of concern and we share our perspectives or try to make things better.
@25Nole25 You ask "If atheists don't believe in God, why do they believe government?"
The answer is simple. I believe in government because it exists. It is part of what is known as reality. You can thus figure out the same methodology for why we don't believe in gods.
Meanwhile, do you mean that without supernatural powers/beings out there somewhere that YOU would want to kill off the human race? Conversely, atheists find precious the one life that we have to live, here/now with loved ones
@25Nole25 You build the argument against yourself when you point out that if it is a sign about atheism they they "would've never had a chance of putting up that banner". Exactly! This is EXACTLY how your local GOVERNMENT thus FAVORS religion over non-religion. It gives air-time/publicity/affirmation to religion, but not to non-religion. The courts have shown that Government speech can not play favorites like that on the topic of religion.
@GodVlogger But why should we endorse something that is negative to us. I mean if something says, "There are no gods, no religion, etc." then why would we put it up? I know it's all controversial, but taking away a society's belief in God like that is wrong. And I know the next thing you're going to say is that we took away the atheists' opinion, but since it isn't a RELIGION it is merely an organization's HURTFUL WORDS written on a banner.
It's all a matter of POV. I have atheist friends at school who said they would like to have the manger up. It's a complete difference in philosophy. Just look at Soviet Russia. They were not allowed to have a hint of religion, just belief in government. They lived their lives full of agony and hatred. Is that what we should become? A far-right conservative country like that? No we are a free country that is able to express our opinions in any shape, but it doesn't guarantee that it will be heard
That is an example of democracy right there. Majority rules. I have read your points and some are reasonable. Religion is based on faith, but again there is no real proof of God. But, since I lived my life following the teachings of God, I did not become blinded from the real world. I knew how to exert myself morally and correctly to others. You would say I'm a person of superstition, but since you don't know the feelings I have everyday about God, it is impossible to interpret.
@25Nole25 There were thousands of functional churches in the Soviet Union. In fact, Stalin opened more during the war. Christians who like to rewrite history make the claim that the SU was an atheistic society. Far from it.
@25Nole25 You pointed out the Soviet state was anti-religion, so I'm supposed to respond by pointing out that Hitler and the Nazi's were christians, then you will say 'well they weren't TRUE christians and Timothy McVeigh wasn't a 'true' x-tian either', then I'm supposed to bring up asking how many people christians killed in the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, then you say Muslims are worse why don't I pick on them... is that where you are going with this?? Let's stick with Ellwood City.
@GodVlogger Alright we'll stick with Ellwood City. If the FFRF really wanted to hang up the banner, why didn't they show up? They said they would. I mean our town was out there to support the nativity, but it wasn't just because of that reason. We felt as though somebody from another state was telling us what to do. It wasn't a person from our city that was complaining, it was the FFRF from Madison, WI. We would've been a little bit more reasonable if it was a group from the town.
@25Nole25 "We would've been a little bit more reasonable if it was a group from the town." Do you honestly believe that atheists (who do in fact live within your town) feel the warm open fuzzy love coming from Ellwood City christians, encouraging them to freely express their disbelief in the prevailing bronze-age superstitions?
@GodVlogger honestly, i have atheists in my town who could care less. i guess there are different types of atheists like there are different types of Christians. Ever think about that? It never said in the constitution that there is separation of church and state. Never. Our government cannot create an organized religion forcing people to worship. Our town did not do that. We merely displayed a manger that was a part of an overall holiday. A national holiday.
Like I said before, our judicial system has properly used its powers to state that we meet the standards, and that we haven't broken any laws. We all have different outlooks on tolerance. This is nothing to start a war over. We are still Americans and hopefully proud ones, but if I'm going to see somebody disrespect my beliefs as a Christian, all I could ever possibly do is pray for your well-being. Let's face it, an argument will always be an argument. There is no turning it around.
@25Nole25 You ask "But why should we endorse something that is negative to us. I mean if something says, "There are no gods, no religion, etc." then why would we put it up? "
MY REPLY: Personally I don't expect or care if YOU endorse the FFRF's anti-religion sign. You as a private citizen may call FFRF's sign as bull; you have free speech. BUT the issue is that the GOVERNMENT (your local mayor, municipal building, etc.) are used or being used to impose GOVERNMENT speech on the topic of religion
Nobody wants to take down your nativity scene. They want the equal opportunity to share their own views as Americans. If a Muslim wants to put up a display too they should be allowed. If a Jew wants to throw in a menorah they should be allowed. The protesters here are flatly wrong. Ironically you're probably the ones condemning your nativity scene to be removed if you don't allow the atheists as well as others to put up their own display.
SeekerLancer 2 months ago
@SeekerLancer If you were there, you actually would find out that we did have other religions at the rally. We had a kwanzaa sign right next to the manger. Just to say, that's a very damning statement, and clearly we weren't the ones protesting. The FFRF were the protesters.
25Nole25 2 months ago
"That nativity scene will stand another 50 or 60 years and itsssnnraRRGGHHYEARRRRARRRR"
That's how he ends all his sentences?.
Cha4k 2 months ago
PS: With that last statement, I don't truly think you mean any ill-will. Its just that some of the things thrown around without question in religious circles have some quite brutal and/or ignorant connotations behind them ... and I wanted you to think about what you are saying.
IndyCub86 2 months ago
@IndyCub86 thanks Indy, it's just I kinda feel outnumbered. I didn't really expect dozens of atheists checking out this video. I mean no hard feelings, it's just what I believe is right. It's really hard to talk about this stuff whenever you aren't face-to-face with people also. And I do have an atheist friend. We argued about this for hours on end. It's just it doesn't seem possible to really come out with a solution. *sigh.
25Nole25 2 months ago
@25Nole25 And yes, I did read quite a few of your comments. It's partially why I quoted what I quoted. To essentially suggest that atheists are so devoid of humanity, morality, that you can't think why they would choose to not murder people instead of kill everybody, is a profoundly ignorant and disturbing statement. Don't say such things if you can't own up to them. I don't even want to get into what that all suggests of your own demons.
IndyCub86 2 months ago
@25Nole25 I grew up devout in a devout family. When to a private Christian grade and HS. Heck, considered seminary. I know how other beliefs can be seen as 'hurtful' to a Christian, but you seem to be too entitled to consider similar 'hurt' on the other side. And regardless, having your and only your religious views advocated by the government isn't a "right." You fought and "won" only in squashing other people's rights. If the government is in this at all, it shouldn't be picking sides.
IndyCub86 2 months ago
Listen, if you people want to come to a compromise, then why don't you drive to Ellwood City on a determined date, and we'll have a debate about this. We'll have our reasons and you'll have yours. If this is over the internet behind a safe computer screen, then nothing is going to get solved; it will just be like republican vs. democrat bickering.
25Nole25 3 months ago
Morons. Every last one of them. *Sigh* Oh well: Remember the Reason for the Season: THE WINTER SOLSTICE. Happy solstice to all you rationalists out there!
metaphid 3 months ago 3
@25Nole25 "And how in what way does it harm you? If you're an atheist, then don't look at the thing." Same thing with the banner. Both or neither should be up. People have a right to a voice, not a right to be sheltered from offense or contradiction to your beliefs. "Might as well kill off the who human race with no hesitation." Are you really saying that your religious belief is the ONLY thing holding back your apparently inherent desire to murder people?!?
IndyCub86 3 months ago 5
@IndyCub86 Did you even read the rest of my comments or just pick little quotes to make me seem like a bad guy? You don't find it hurtful because you're not a Christian. How would you possibly understand? You don't and you never will unless you choose. We never said at the rally, "Burn the atheists! Kill 'em all!" No, we merely wanted to protect our rights, and we won. If I wasn't a Christian, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today. I know that for a fact!
25Nole25 3 months ago
"The atheist group from Wisconsin complained that the display is a violation of the First Amendment clause which prohibits the government from endorsing religion." Quoted from KDKA, our local news station. You're can't say that the quote doesn't imply taking the manger down. Anyways, if the atheists even showed up, maybe we could have come to a compromise. Too bad it didn't happen.
25Nole25 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@25Nole25 "If I wasn't(sic) a Christian, I know I wouldn't be the person I am today."
Yes, woefully uneducated. Just like all of them.
WellConditioned 2 months ago
@25Nole25 "It is merely an organization's HURTFUL WORDS written on a banner." For how often I hear all kinds of Christians claim that all kinds of people will be tortured for eternity (and deserve it) ... a little banner just stating a disbelief in god doesn't seem all that 'hurtful' or radical.
IndyCub86 3 months ago 2
These people are functionally retarded. The FFRF never once suggested that the nativity scene should come down. They are protesting against nothing. This is silly.
adam3251 3 months ago 2
The atheists were not even pushing to have the manger removed. They just wanted a small display of their own. It's kind of scary that this many people can get so riled up on false pretenses. I suppose the contrary, that this many people knew what was going on and protested so that only their voice may get recognition, is not any better.
IndyCub86 3 months ago
Wow! Looks like an ANGRY MOB just wishing that they had a WITCH to BURN!
What a bunch of superstitious people.
GodVlogger 3 months ago
@GodVlogger No, it looks like a group of people trying to stop disrespectful people from giving up their beliefs. It's not against the law. Look it up. If you were to give up what you believe in, you would be angry too.
25Nole25 3 months ago
@25Nole25 So you are saying that if the GOVERNMENT does not endorse/display your religious icons you would then "give up your belief" in Christianity? Really?
GodVlogger 3 months ago
@GodVlogger There was no endorsement. The government didnt preach to us to love Jesus. According to KDKA, our local news network, a supreme court ruling says that a stand-alone nativity scene is permitted if it is a part of an overall holiday display. We even had a kwanza sign. Atheism is not a religion. In the dictionary, religion is "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods" Therefore the FFRF would've never had a chance of putting up that banner
25Nole25 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
And how in what way does it harm you? If you're an atheist, then don't look at the thing. Some people look at possessions with pride. Why would you want to take that pride away? Does it make you feel better about yourself? It's all a scheme to get rid of religion - an evil and distraught way of solving a "problem". If atheists don't believe in God, why do they believe government? Obviously supreme powers don't exist. Might as well kill off the who human race with no hesitation.
25Nole25 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
@25Nole25 Well, constitutional violations should concern us all, yet you imply that we should just look the other way. Should non-Jews have just looked away during the Holocaust? No, we see areas of concern and we share our perspectives or try to make things better.
GodVlogger 3 months ago
@25Nole25 You ask "If atheists don't believe in God, why do they believe government?"
The answer is simple. I believe in government because it exists. It is part of what is known as reality. You can thus figure out the same methodology for why we don't believe in gods.
Meanwhile, do you mean that without supernatural powers/beings out there somewhere that YOU would want to kill off the human race? Conversely, atheists find precious the one life that we have to live, here/now with loved ones
GodVlogger 3 months ago
@25Nole25 You build the argument against yourself when you point out that if it is a sign about atheism they they "would've never had a chance of putting up that banner". Exactly! This is EXACTLY how your local GOVERNMENT thus FAVORS religion over non-religion. It gives air-time/publicity/affirmation to religion, but not to non-religion. The courts have shown that Government speech can not play favorites like that on the topic of religion.
GodVlogger 3 months ago
@GodVlogger But why should we endorse something that is negative to us. I mean if something says, "There are no gods, no religion, etc." then why would we put it up? I know it's all controversial, but taking away a society's belief in God like that is wrong. And I know the next thing you're going to say is that we took away the atheists' opinion, but since it isn't a RELIGION it is merely an organization's HURTFUL WORDS written on a banner.
25Nole25 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
It's all a matter of POV. I have atheist friends at school who said they would like to have the manger up. It's a complete difference in philosophy. Just look at Soviet Russia. They were not allowed to have a hint of religion, just belief in government. They lived their lives full of agony and hatred. Is that what we should become? A far-right conservative country like that? No we are a free country that is able to express our opinions in any shape, but it doesn't guarantee that it will be heard
25Nole25 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
That is an example of democracy right there. Majority rules. I have read your points and some are reasonable. Religion is based on faith, but again there is no real proof of God. But, since I lived my life following the teachings of God, I did not become blinded from the real world. I knew how to exert myself morally and correctly to others. You would say I'm a person of superstition, but since you don't know the feelings I have everyday about God, it is impossible to interpret.
25Nole25 3 months ago in playlist Liked videos
This has been flagged as spam show
@25Nole25 "That is an example of democracy right there. Majority rules."
We live in a democratic republic, not a pure democracy.
WellConditioned 3 months ago
Comment removed
WellConditioned 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@25Nole25 There were thousands of functional churches in the Soviet Union. In fact, Stalin opened more during the war. Christians who like to rewrite history make the claim that the SU was an atheistic society. Far from it.
WellConditioned 3 months ago
@25Nole25 You pointed out the Soviet state was anti-religion, so I'm supposed to respond by pointing out that Hitler and the Nazi's were christians, then you will say 'well they weren't TRUE christians and Timothy McVeigh wasn't a 'true' x-tian either', then I'm supposed to bring up asking how many people christians killed in the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition, then you say Muslims are worse why don't I pick on them... is that where you are going with this?? Let's stick with Ellwood City.
GodVlogger 2 months ago
@GodVlogger Alright we'll stick with Ellwood City. If the FFRF really wanted to hang up the banner, why didn't they show up? They said they would. I mean our town was out there to support the nativity, but it wasn't just because of that reason. We felt as though somebody from another state was telling us what to do. It wasn't a person from our city that was complaining, it was the FFRF from Madison, WI. We would've been a little bit more reasonable if it was a group from the town.
25Nole25 2 months ago
@25Nole25 "We would've been a little bit more reasonable if it was a group from the town." Do you honestly believe that atheists (who do in fact live within your town) feel the warm open fuzzy love coming from Ellwood City christians, encouraging them to freely express their disbelief in the prevailing bronze-age superstitions?
GodVlogger 2 months ago
@GodVlogger honestly, i have atheists in my town who could care less. i guess there are different types of atheists like there are different types of Christians. Ever think about that? It never said in the constitution that there is separation of church and state. Never. Our government cannot create an organized religion forcing people to worship. Our town did not do that. We merely displayed a manger that was a part of an overall holiday. A national holiday.
25Nole25 2 months ago
Like I said before, our judicial system has properly used its powers to state that we meet the standards, and that we haven't broken any laws. We all have different outlooks on tolerance. This is nothing to start a war over. We are still Americans and hopefully proud ones, but if I'm going to see somebody disrespect my beliefs as a Christian, all I could ever possibly do is pray for your well-being. Let's face it, an argument will always be an argument. There is no turning it around.
25Nole25 2 months ago
@25Nole25 You ask "But why should we endorse something that is negative to us. I mean if something says, "There are no gods, no religion, etc." then why would we put it up? "
MY REPLY: Personally I don't expect or care if YOU endorse the FFRF's anti-religion sign. You as a private citizen may call FFRF's sign as bull; you have free speech. BUT the issue is that the GOVERNMENT (your local mayor, municipal building, etc.) are used or being used to impose GOVERNMENT speech on the topic of religion
GodVlogger 2 months ago