Background Behind The Shocking Youth Message by Paul Washer

[Wilkins777]

YEAH! I Was one of the many Australians who have wrote to Heartcry expressing my gratitude to God's True power through them

[dmhappy2777]

I praise the Lord for Paul Washer O to God that we as a Nation could have 10's of thousands of men like him! Men of God who would stand and preach the full counsel of God. Thank You Paul Washer! I pray the Lord keep a hedge about you I will remember you continuously in my prayers!

[tylr322]

slagging off britney spears, ooh this cunts going to hell.

seriously what shit this is.

[BonzaiJakab]

There seems to be much anti-Calvinist activity out there so here we go...

If anyone can tell me why Calvinists are heretics and going to hell please message me...

Seriously...

Because, I see absolutely no excuse by 'Christians' to slander someone so harshly. I am not just speaking of people who have commented on this video either. I have many a times seen both sides fuss and fight. Why?

Again... if it's heresy and condemned, someone message me why...

If not, then there is no need to speak.

[earnestlyseeking]

I guess I made a mistake getting involved with this. It's not the first time and probably won't be the last. (grin)

I'm not necessarily condemning Calvinism as a heresy. But I do believe it has problems. So does the Armenian viewpoint. The Apostle Paul pointed out that a christian should be a follower of Christ and not of him or Apollos. He spoke about this in 1 Corinthians. I just want to apply what he says and not be a follower of a man.

[BonzaiJakab]

I wish to not be a follower of man as well, that is why I consider myself a Biblical Christian holding the Bible as the absolute standard, not what modern day churches teach.

I don't mind Calvinists to the point of disagree-ance. I don't agree with everything that is normally taught, however Paul Washer doesn't either. I probably don't agree with everything that Washer says, however I agree on the basics and all the teachings I've heard. Thus, we have no real disagree-ance.

[parisreidhead]

i love john calvin and i thnk people should take a look at things people taught inorder to turn our cities upside down for the Lord, if they did it ,what did they say?

[sexywildchildbaby]

I think he's a awesome pastor, I know how he feels!

I don't have that happy Christian I've been saved feeling, my sister does...I think maybe some feel big time conviction for their sins, and others are just happy they're forgiven. He's kinda the EMO Christian pastor, were that big tooth guy on TV would be the Cheerleader Christian pastor...LOL Awesome video :)

[BipolarPics]

This cat is really cool.He says quit being a girl and get off facebook.

[earnestlyseeking]

The real un-popular message is that Salvation is through Christ alone by Gods grace through faith. Although many say they agree with this on the surface, they really become dependent on Religion and the ministers of religions to do the work and study for them, and as a result they end up being followers of men rather than followers of Christ. That was the problem in ancient Israel. The people wanted a golden calf. People today are much the same with mega churches. They want something visible

[earnestlyseeking]

Is Paul Washers "shocking message" the real truth, or is it another product of "fast food religion"? Paul seems to be of a Calvinistic persuasion which seems to me to be unbiblical at it's core. Throughout the scriptures we see example after example of people who were seekers of God, yet Calvinism teaches that men are incapable of seeking God  because of "Total depravity"

"..whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him." (Heb. 11:6 ESV)

[BonzaiJakab]

My friend, I would take 2000 Calvinist preachers over 1,000,000 easy-believists any day.

Calvinism doesn't teach that men never seek God, but rather that the cause of men seeking God is not from themselves but because God draws them near.

I'm not a calvinist, at least not yet. ha ha.

But, I don't see many problems that it's caused Christianity. The problem I see with Christianity that we should focus on is a watering down of the gospel and all the rampant word of faith heresies out there.

[earnestlyseeking]

How about taking all the preachers who actually preach the Bible message and accepting all the things they say that are true and rejecting the things they say that are not true? Calvinism has caused damage to true biblical Christianity. Look at the Westboro Baptist church for an example if you want. How many lost people see them picketing the funerals of Soldiers and walk away vowing to never investigate the Bible or it's message. Are these Calvinist, doing God's Will?

[earnestlyseeking]

Perhaps some Calvinist will be offended at my mentioning WBBC. If so, I'm sorry. But facts are facts.

Paul Washer makes some good points, but it seems from my angle that he and some others like him are just starting another religious fad, that in time will die out. People need to stop following people and start following Christ. He is the same day after day and year after year. The Religion that's closest to the truth is the one that follows him alone.

[masterowa]

Augustin, Luther, Calvin, Beza, Zwingli, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Tyndale, Grudem, Piper, MacArthur, Pink, Packer, Hodge, Warfield, Lloyd-Jones and many more were (or are) strong Calvinists. I do not say you should believe C. because of it BUT it should at least encourage you to think whether your accusations (being unbiblical, damaging, unchristian, unevangelistic) are appropriate.

[earnestlyseeking]

Yes it's true that a lot of people, even so called "great ones" were Calvinist. True Biblical Christianity tho, is not about following the crowd.

In this message, Paul Washer made a good point about Jeremiah. He didn't appear to be a very happy prophet, and he had an unpopular message. But God was with him and he did Gods will. Popularity and true Christianity really have nothing to do with one another. Doing God's will and following Christ should be our Goal.

[masterowa]

and this is why I said it is only a reason to reconsider claims you have against C. not accept it on these basis. But the fact is that those people were unpopular in their times and they devoted their lives to study the Bible and love God - so for this simple reason it would be good to at least consider the fact that they might have some biblical insight.

[parisreidhead]

amen, i hear that spurgeon is not a 5 point calvin, but believes anyone can be saved, I think we should follow Jesus , and prove our beliefs, argue scripture or storm the gates of hell, to me this is as profitable as proserity preaching lol jk i do talk alot peace to you all , may you all be touched by the sweet joy of the Lord

[BonzaiJakab]

Westboro? Come on. I am not arguing. But, by using the logic that you just used against calvanism (basically saying that one bad example of calvinism means the entire idea is flawed)... you essentially dismantle Christianity. Because then I can say well, I knew a guy who loved Jesus, but he stole all my money, so thus Christianity is wrong. It makes no sense. The logic is flawed.

If you can prove to me that the theology associated with Calvinism is heresy, then message me. Until then, no prob.

[CarryANationIII]

Looks like Washer listened to that criticism of his speech sounding like he was promoting salvation by works, glad to see he's clarified.

I'd like to hear any Calvinist give a substantial criticism of WBC's preaching, which is Biblical and Calvinist and Reformed in every way.

[BonzaiJakab]

Any religious organization that operates under the website 'god hates insert homosexual slur here' is not spreading the true gospel. Or at least not spreading it in a true way.

We are commanded to 'speak the truth in love' Eph.

So, we can tell the truth about God's hatred and wrath and anger. However, if that's our main point and we aren't speaking the full true gospel as Jesus taught, then it isn't Biblical.

[CarryANationIII]

Using the Biblical definitions of "truth" and "love" - what's your objection? How do you tell an unrepentant sinner that they are going to Hell, with "love" as defined by the world? Criticizing sin is considered "hate speech" even when emoting preachers do it. The Bible is hate speech according to the world; Jesus preaching against the Pharisees, calling them sons of serpents and the devil, would be considered "hate speech" today.

[BonzaiJakab]

I understand that, but we do not define love or truth by the same ways in which the world defines it. Truth - meaning the true gospel of Jesus Christ, that He is the atoning sacrifice for sinners and that people must repent and believe the gospel. Love - doing it the right way. Not preaching because you want to anger others or preaching because its fun, but doing it because you have a passion for God and the lost. Lovingly guide them through the law and gospel of truth.

WBC doesn't do that.

[CarryANationIII]

Paul Washer preaches to the church-going, WBC preaches to the public. If it was the 1700s WBC would be considered in the same category as Jonathan Edwards, and his famous sermon would no doubt be considered hateful today. If Washer preached to an unsympathetic audience, or if he preached against the idolatry of worshipping America/flag/military, he'd be just as marginalized as WBC.

I remain unconvinced that WBC is "damaging the cause" or any such thing;the Gospel is a necessary offense.

[Rhuanjl]

The WBC don't preach the gospel. They just crticise and say you're going to hell, God hates you. They don't talk about the cross and call people to repent and believe.

[CarryANationIII]

Rhuanjl, you are incorrect, I have read their blogs and seen their videos, and they constantly call people to repentance - constantly. In fact it's the core of their message.

You can argue about their style but I have yet to see any substantive criticism of their message from a Reformed perspective.

[parisreidhead]

what is WBC

[parisreidhead]

western baptist church aha sorry, critical is not good, but how can you save someone who thinks they are christian, and isnt bearing the fruit the bible says they should, friend I want to hear you so please dont be offended

[Rhuanjl]

To a christian who doesn't bear fruit in accordance with repentance I would endevour to say soemthing similar to what PW says in the shocking youth message.

[earnestlyseeking]

Their are similarities between WBBC and other Calvinist. Take for example what both groups say about John 3:16. One of the posters that WBBC uses in their marches calls that scripture a "lie". Most all Calvinist say the scripture doesn't mean "everyone" or "whoever believes"  but rather "all the elect". In Doing so, they distort the real Gospel message. John 3:16 is, and should be, one of the foundations of true Christian teaching. No modifications are necessary.

[BonzaiJakab]

Yeah, but WBC is clearly not the best example of anything. It's an atheists favorite example along with catholic pedophiles. Neither of those two applying to Biblical Christianity.

I've messaged you about some of the differences between Armenianism and Calvinism and we can discuss the issue further there. Thanks for the conversation.

Soli Deo Gloria!

[earnestlyseeking]

Hi, I just replied to your message. I look forward to your views on this important subject. Dan

[Rhuanjl]

John 3:16 says whoever believes, it doesn't say everyone. It says everyone who believes. There is a difference.

And who will believe? By nature man is sinful and hates God, will he in his own strength turn and believe the gospel? Calvinism as it's called is merely a small aspect of reformed theology the theology that flows out of sola scriptura.

[earnestlyseeking]

Doesn't believing require some voluntary action from the Believer? Does he believe because God makes him believe? Or because he chooses to?

[123blowit]

? what are you trying to say ?

[earnestlyseeking]

I'm trying to say that we need to be followers of Christ. Not followers of men who draw large crowds. Jesus said that the gate was small and the path narrow that leads to life and that few find it. What does that mean? I don't see a mega-church in his words

The second thing I'm saying is that religious movements come in fad like cycles, and it seems like the return to Calvinism is just another in the line of re-cycled religious movements. Lie tricks a magician does, that get old after a while.

[earnestlyseeking]

I meant to say like not lie sorry

[Rhuanjl]

God regenerates his heart so he wants to and then he will. Read romans 8 or John 6, or Romans 9, or ephesians 2.

[earnestlyseeking]

So does this regeneration come before repentance? Or afterward? If it's before, why should there be a call to repentance at all? If it's pre-programed into the "Elect" that they repent, they would do do without any preaching or anyone pointing out that they need to repent.

[Rhuanjl]

Regenertion causes repentance.

As for why preach, it's something of a paradox.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.(ESV)

If they're elect they will be saved, but Paul (our example here) endures all things so that they will be.

[bamcis17]

@BonzaiJakab

The guy that invented calvinism, John Calvin, had a guy (Michael Servetus) burned alive on a pile of books for differing slightly in his belief of Jesus' divinity. I don't know about you, but I would call burning someone alive for ANY reason "pretty goddamn evil". So, the fact that you don't see a problem with that is partly because of your ignorance of history and partly because of your unwillingness to cure that ignorance with learning.

[masterowa]

True Arminians (J. Arminius, John Wesley, L. Ravenhill) believe in Total Depravity - the same way Calv. do.

The differences are between the extend and work of grace. Not about how wretched we are.

Unfortunately, most of those who call themselves Arminians are really semi-Pelagian-Charles-Finneyan­s.

[earnestlyseeking]

I don't have any problem with the teaching that man is in a depraved state and is totally lost without God. But I do believe that it is an obligation and responsibility for man to believe in God and to take the initiative to have a relationship with him. It is to be a voluntary thing not something co-ercerd and manipulated by God eons ago. Man has choices. To follow Gods commands and to seek him, or reap the consequences. Faith is about believing and acting on that belief.

[crem004]

The problem isn't free will of choice. The problem is that ALL men are wicked and evil...so much that we are incapable of choosing God because of our love for sin. Therefore if God does not move in you on your behalf...you will rightfully perish. However, God is merciful and He elected a multitude of people from the foundations of the earth to receive His mercy and grace. Most people say you must believe in Christ to be born again. The truth is that you must be born again to believe in Christ.

[earnestlyseeking]

The problem with this viewpoint in my opinion is that it's the very same thing that Satan implied in the account of Job. He claimed all men lived with selfish motives and that none would serve God unless God was protecting him and blessing him. The whole challenge was: would man serve God out of Faith and love? If I understand Calvinism correctly, it teaches that man can do nothing good, which is essentially the same thing Satan said.

[earnestlyseeking]

C.S. Lewis made a good point in the book "Mere Christianity about the natural presence of "Moral Law" This natural presence of right and wrong would not be there if the Creator had not placed it there. Calvinism says it doesn't exist, except in the elect. Also the very definition of the word Faith is twisted around from something voluntary to something that is forced upon, once again, only the elect.

[crem004]

Actually, Solomon (Ecc 7:20), David (Ps 14:2-3,53:1-3), Isaiah (64:5-7), and Apostle Paul (Rom 3:10-18) all say that there are none good and all have turned away from God and we do not seek Him. In Genesis 6:5&8:21 even God says that all men are evil and our thoughts are evil continually...even from our youth.

In Job, Satan was challenging that true BELIEVERS will reject God if prosperity and protection were taken away. Calvinism/P.Washer says that a true believer will remain faithful...cont.

[earnestlyseeking]

So, Am I to conclude that faith really isn't faith after all? Isn't faith suppose to be about a person believing in something that is unseen voluntarily?

What good would faith be, if a person didn't have another choice and would it really be faith at all?

[crem004]

The problem is that if it were up to us to have faith on our own, we would all go to hell because no-one seeks after God because of our love for the darkness/sin. So, God must transform our heart so that we can respond to God's calling. Even Apostle Paul said that God has dealt each man a measure of faith in Rom 12:3. Charles Spurgeon truthfully said, "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven." Washer has a great sermon series titled the "True Gospel".

[crem004]

I recommend watching atleast the first 2 videos, "Man Apart from God," and "What is the Gospel."

I promise you will not be disappointed. :)

I think you can find them here on YT.

[crem004]

Bah, I had another 500 word response....but it didn't post because I tried to slip in a website address...I'll try again here, but without my reply since I have to go to bed now to get up early in the AM. This site has a great explanation on the 5 points of Calvinism. I highly recommend anyone to read it (esp. Total Depravity & Unconditional Election)

gospeloutreach [DOT] net/tulip [DOT] html

[earnestlyseeking]

Some of the 5 points of Calvinism have some bits of truth in them, but the whole package, at least to me, is not the true gospel.

I do not believe that we are born perfect and then sin later. We are all born sinners in need of a Savior. But we have to reach out and take the gift that's offered through Christ sacrifice. Effort is required and expected. Grace isn't forced, it's offered. God didn't want robots, he wanted free will creatures whom he endowed with the ability to make good choices.

[rcarrillo7]

I urge you to read Romans 9 and Ephesians 1-2 which deal with free will and election. Yes, we have free will. We choose according to the desire of our heart. God doesn't force us to choose him, we choose him based on our desire for him. But we desire him because, in his mercy, he has turned our hearts from wickedness and given us a new nature. We choose him because he has caused us to desire him. Apart from the work of the holy spirit we CANNOT choose Christ. It's impossible.

[rcarrillo7]

Also read John 6:44 and 6:65. Jesus clearly states that we CANNOT (this is ability not permission) come to HIM unless God draws us. The greek word literally means to drag. Works and obedience are not requirements for salvation nor do they gain us favor with God. Christ did all that work. Works are the fruit of our faith. Through our works we show that we trust and believe in Jesus Christ. However, Galatians warns against believing that your works contribute to your salvation. God bless you!

[agentorangetechno]

wow, outstanding comment iii

great wisdom

[joe700700]

Don't worry paul, your sermon on the shocking Youth Message is the new benchmark for all sermons to follow.........it has set new standards for all of us to strive for a holy life.

[ebief76]

Paul Washer is an awesome man of God, Jesus bless you Paul.

[laneywag]

Amen!  There is no time to laugh when it comes to sin and the condition of this country and the lost souls. Time is running out.