Nothing will happen to people who kill and torture. Absolutely nothing. Just like nothing will happen to the victims. That's why it's unfair to kill. That's why I even dare to say that atheists might even have a stronger sense of morality. Because they understand that everybody's equal when they're alive ánd when they're dead. That's why you can never take a live away. Killers will not be punished in hell, so they have to be punished here on earth, and be put away for the rest of their lives...
You have a defected brain wiring...a messed up amygdala...the logic part of your brain also is messed up....short NTX surge or high...not sure......you are just born that way, I can only be happy that you are not related to me. Such a pity...waste of a beautiful face and brain space
but is that thin JC, a fictional character from some desert born to a virgin mama who was married to her uncle and was the 22nd messiah claim to be....common, how shallow can u possibly be??? grow up, the world is a nasty fucked up unfair place. It's a wild animal world and we humans are the biggest assholes among all the animals who are ruining this planet already...grow up. LEARN, THINK
God believes that he/she was created out of nothing... ;)
The world is not balanced. That's why there are laws (trying to be the justice, which not always work) Take it or leave it... there are things we cannot change. Creating a god that promise justice doesn't make it truth.
God would have to be really selfish to want us to believe in him, knowing all the reasons we have not to believe in him.
When you have nothing to do about a situation=you don't do anything. There is not such situation
Your arguments are ridiculous. Why are you concerned about justice? If you are atheist and there is no higher power to answer to, why do you care about things like justice and morality? What is your moral compass? What makes a person good? Who decides what is good or moral? I would LOVE for you to provide answers to these questions, mainly because you can't. God is a pushover? I guess you will find out when you are begging for your eternal soul. Good luck...whoops I don't believe in luck.
@jberton73 What a silly comment. Buddhists have no god to answer to. Are you claiming that those people are more immoral than any other. I guess it`s just the opposite. You do not need a god to be moral. person.
@ndzoko only a shallow asshole as this woman is would claim someone like me who is working on childhood cancer day and night or my husband working on maralria for yrs in Africa ( and made a huge difference in one of the common drugs) and many many other atheist scientists and engineers who are the reason she is NOT dead or crippled by age 5 like she would have been under that man made biblical God of hers- would go to hell ( am baffled& convinced,these people have defected brain wiring)
@jberton73 You fail to understand that we human beings are intelligent enough to create a moral ourselves, and that moral 2000 years ago is different from what is moral now. Read your bible and cry to god why did he said such immoral things on it. Trust me and everybody else as you trust god, then you will find a better understanding and an even higher level of trust and understanding. I do not take religious teaching, because I've found myself an even better way of livin and caring about others
@XxXFafnerXxX btw, so called moral laws are all man made terms and laws that are taken out of scientific laws pertaining to a fit primate society of humans...that is why many scientific positions fall in the positions of modern civil laws or vise versa..like if you steal or kill or rape, etc you get punished or must get punished, as if this was not the rational scientific position for the social primate mammal homo sapien, we would have gone extinct LONG ago.Our ancestors were great observers
@jberton73 You sure don't like to think, huh? We all live in the same world, we want it to be a good experience while we're here. The "moral compass" we have is whatever makes the world a better place. How do you get your morals? The bible? You believe slavery is moral if you follow the bible, among many many other things that are considered immoral today. How do you explain cannibals in the jungle? They don't think it's wrong to eat people. Guess god forgot to install the compass?
@jberton73 If you have a soul, tell me where it is located ? When, at what moment, it became imbedded in your body ? Where did it come from ? Are you ready to assume that E.G. a one hour old sygote( a couple of cells) has a soul ? If life is so precious to god, the creator of life, why does he allow, or cause, 4,500,000 stillbirths a year ?
There's no punishment when I die? Oh, then I can do whatever I want? I can rape and steal and kill and lie and be greedy and rip off other people and commit adultery and get drunk all the time and smoke weed and inject heroin and have sex with animals and step on people while climmbing to the top of corporate and whatever I want and as long as I can get away with it in society! I will just die and nothing happens to me? Thanks for changing my views about life! I feel refreshed now!!! Thanks!!!
@yoursola Yes, probably nothing supernatural prevents you from doing that nor will punish you afterwards. Is the fear of punishment the only thing that prevents you from raping and killing others? Have you no conscience? No empathy? If true, then you belong to a cell, one with white walls.
Also, wishing for a cosmic judge doesn't make it true. Russell (rougly) said: if you have a box full of rotten oranges, then you don't suppose that there must be another box with fresh ones "for balance".
@daveluik What do you mean by conscience? People violate it everyday! With no remorse!! You do!!! I do!!! It's called survival of the fittest as Darwin put it!! I want to grab all I can in this world!! I want to have as much fun as I can and be as selfish as I want!! Does that mean I have to be locked up because of what I want!! Then you would have to be locked up to!!! I only have one life, so how dare something get in my way as a conscience or by what other people DEEM as wrong.
@jberton73 You fail to understand WHO gave you YOUR life, Didn`t your parents tell you who gave you your life ? What you are designed to do with it, is you own business. Some become mass-murderers, some become saints. There cannot be a judgement day. God is ( supposed ) to be LOVE. Love ,does not keep record of any wrongdoing. How can you have a judgement without a record of wrongdoing ?
@yoursola Hey, I'm sorry for my arrogant tone before. I tend to forget that when commenting in the Internet.
Yes, we violate it every day, but aren't there degrees of violation? Petty lies and rape are on different levels. We share some beliefs, hence states and laws: I'll suppress my anger and lust if you'll agree to do the same.
Here comes democracy: dictatorship of the masses (most people can enjoy life more when they're cooperating. Also think of long term vs short term pleasure).
I noticed that you said " Praying doesn't do a DAM THING" You said this with conviction. How would you know that praying does not do a DAM thing if you had not tried this only to get 0.0 results from it. Your prayers may have gotten 0.0 results but that does not standardize all results all those that pray. How come atheist target Christians. Besides if God is not real why bother to target those who think God is? However for me God is Real
@JWC3RD Your acting like an unruly child ... let's open your bible and see what should be done .... ah ... I see .... stoned to death. Right then. If this book is on good parenting I am disturbed that anyone would defer to it in any way to live their life and raise their children. Chilling. Not sure if it belongs in both the Fiction and Horror sections of libraries.
Neither get justice either way. Murderers can on their death bed pray to god, accept Jesus and all that is apparently enough for them to go to heaven. Remember, being good or bad doesn't get you into heaven, only loyalty.
Evil atheists would go to same place as Good atheists.
As to "best believe as a safe bet" well believe in WHICH religion? Hindu? Buddah? Scientology?
Anyone who knows anything about time and space knows that the phrase "before the big bang" doesn't make sense because space AND TIME as we know it were created during the big bang. That means whatever created the big bang is timeless. Being the philosopher I am, I believe there are divine beings who created and are managing this universe. They are timeless. In a sense, we are timeless too. We never experience the past nor the future, only the present.
Re: question2/afterlife. Its not productive to go over Hitler/Sadaam's "getting away with it"... Whether or not you anecdotally find that, well, Hitler/Sadaam had a rough time before they died, it still has nothing to do with the existence of an afterlife. Just as the will to believe an afterlife has nothing to do with the existence of an afterlife.
How can people who believe in God believe that any sort of creator would be so callous as our esteemed creator? Why is it so important that we all have blind faith in his existence? Is this his entertainment? I mean if I were all knowing and eternal...I would get pretty bored. Maybe I would make a game for myself and establish rules for it. The rules would at least insert an element of uncertainty.
My take? I'd rather believe in a world with no God than a God who would be so cruel as that.
*Check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically christianity)...good stuff, rate it!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch and have an open mind....Atheists go check them out and give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!!*
You sound very pragmatic and logical. One problem, if you haven't experimented with something you cannot 100% be sure. Ifs and lots of ifs. Now, let's do a survey around the whole planet and ask how many people has had an aperishion of an unicorn or even experienced one, vs an aperishion of God or Christ. What do scientists know about the Spirit real? Since you don't believe in God you also dismiss spirit beings. Go play with a wigi board and see the trouble you'll find.
i dont know what its called in English but in Dutch we call this "open doors". I cant belive that anyone with half a brain is willing to debate on such a low level. All those things have been said.
@meandi10000 Because if an intelligent explanation helps to prevent one more theist from wrapping themselves up in a religious comfort blanket, then it's worth the effort.
hell is not this myth of fire and suffering in constant agony , hell is not believing in jesus in god jesus said i am the truth and the light all that believes in me ?
As a soldier in elite forces, I had to make difficult decisions.wthout divine intercerception. Moral doesn't come from god. Just study the history. The main question is where did the universe came from. "the big bang" did not need a god. "ex nihilo nihil fit" is wrong, because if energy and matter always sums up zero, U don't need god to explain that. Time and space are connected. There was no time to god create a big bang. It simply didn't exist. Moral, U can do horrible things in god's name.
@SippinonMickeys - Actually, you are incorrect. A study was done on the efficacy of prayer and the researchers were astonished to find that surgical patients (who did not know that others were praying for them had a higher recovery rate than patients who had no one praying). And if only a billion people would take the same moment to pray to the One, True God for anything....well, it would be amazing.
@JWC3RD Nope. There have been at least 10 studies, which have shown that it is inconclusive or downright bad to have people pray for you. The 2006 Mind/Body Institute showed that "patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested."
@SippinonMickeys - According to Dr. David R. Hodge, an assistant professor of social work in the College of Human Services at Arizona State University, there have been 17 and his comprehensive analysis of all 17 seems to indicate that there is. The thing that I would have to look at, though, is the raw data. There was a study - different subject - done back in 1992 where the researchers claimed a particular conclusion, but the actual data didn't actually prove that conclusion.
However, Hodge does say that prayer alone is not enough in these situations. Plus, there are also other factors that must be weighed in the issue of intercessory prayer. For example, what were the actual levels of faith of those actually praying? Also, the one study I had heard about didn't inform the patients that they "may or may not" receive prayer. They weren't informed at all, so there was no expectation of efficacy on their part.
I have seen payer answer, not in a health related issue, but I have seen it occur. So I know it does work. That is not to say that God answers the way we want Him to all the time. There are times when what we ask for is not what God knows to be in our best interest. Ultimately, since there seems to be conflicting sentiments among researchers, you are going to accept that which fits your presumed non-belief, just as I will be inclined to accept that with fits my belief.
@JWC3RD The study was run by Harvard University Medical School cardiologist Dr. Herbert Benson and published in The American Heart Journal, and was by far the most rigorous and comprehensive study on the effects of intercessory prayer on the health and recovery of patients ever conducted. Prayer failed.
@JWC3RD If a billion people prayed at the same moment, then a whole lot of actual work would be left undone. There may be some feel good moments though. LOL
I like 'If you don't prey' instead of 'If you don't pray..."
The thing that is lost on theists is that they are indeed preyed upon. Not in the stalking killing sense of the concept, but the reasoning & thinking sense of it.
Sam Harris put it best when he said ALL theists are alike. They cling to a hope & faith that is immeasurable & unprovable all in the hope that they are right & everyone else is wrong. It's the conspiracy theory bug that afflicts so many. The need 2 know what others don't.
@SippinonMickeys - I am not preyed upon. God offers his children discernment. I have also not surrendered my ability to reason. In fact, what I have is seasoned and reasoned faith. What amazes me is that everything you would call fact is nothing more than a faith belief. Belief that the scientists aren't lying. Speaking of which, why do you believe them? How do you KNOW that they aren't lying to you? Considering how scientists are increasingly lying about their research, that is.
And it isn't that we hope we are right. God's Word is right. We simply accept it as what it is.....true. You are also wrong in the claim that we have a need to know what others don't. I would rather EVERYONE knew Christ in a personal relationship and had God's Grace imparted to them. I would not wish that anyone would have to suffer an eternity apart from God. No conspiracy. Just truth.
Your friend is grabbing at Pacal's wager. First off she had better have the right gOD. In the Abrahamic trinity of religions one says believe in Christ as your living savior or go to hell, one says 'if' you believe in JC as a divine savior u will go to hell, & the last says JC was a heretic & fraud & the true messiah is coming & will send u 2 hell if you chose the other 2. Being pious is a waste of ur life, if there is a gOD pull a Bertram Russel on him... there's no way he can refute you. LOL
@SippinonMickeys - You are incorrect. Judaism actually believes in the Messiah. Of course, they failed to heed the prophecies of their own books that foretold to them that they would reject Him when He came the first time. Christianity is nothing more than the fulfillment of those First Advent prophecies of Judaism. So, really, they are in synch, but the Jewish people (really the religious leaders) not willing to cede power to Christ, rejected Him.
And I am in no way pious. I am anything but pious. It is because I am a sinner that I have placed my faith and trust in Jesus Christ. I do not trust either what I can do or what I can say to save me. I can, however, trust Him and what He did. And if it turns out that I don't actually belong to Him, then I get what I deserved in the first place. And do you seriously believe Bertram Russel has the capacity to out-think God?
@JWC3RD Well since Russel was real & gOD is a fallacy, yes I do believe he could out think a made up mythological being. I can out think Obi Wan. No problem.
@JWC3RD Nope I am correct. They believe in the Messiah. Just not yours. Christianity is nothing more than the stolen pagan myths from before it's creation by men who understood that religion was at the time the means to power.
@SippinonMickeys - Gee, I thought I made it clear that they rejected Y'shuah as Messiah. I also thought I made it clear that their own prophecies foretold that they would reject their Messiah (which they did). What is really funny is that religious Jews STILL reject Him, but look forward to the coming of Messiah and they still have, within the Judaic portions of Scripture all those prophecies that foretold of their rejection of Him.
And Lee Strobel (former atheist, who investigated Christianity to prove it wrong and wound up becoming a Christian) did an investigation into the claims that Christianity stole from other beliefs. The truth is actually that they stole from Christianity. The truth is that, prior to the time of Christ, there were NO Christ "myths" in those religions.
@JWC3RD Gilgamesh Epic and Account of the Deluge, Utnapishtim, Osiris Dying and Rising, Horus being born of a Virgin and redeeming the Father, the Persian concept of the Mala'ikah (angels) and the concept of a war between the powers of Light and Dark and a Judgement Day, etc.ALL of Judeo-Christian mythology was copied from other Pagan sources, including the Jesus myths. Nothing new there. Pick up a history book before making such ridiculous claims. But why let facts get in the way of your faith?
@Haussofluv - In looking at the summaries of the Gilgamesh Epic, there is no Christ "myth" contained within it. And again, Strobel investigated this and found that prior to Christ, those "Christ myths" in other religions weren't there. They are only found afterward, indicating that those religions borrowed from Christianity and not as you attempt to claim. In looking at information on Horus, there is no Christ-"mythology" mentioned at all.
Also, you lie when you say that Horus includes a virgin birth scenario. It does not. Isis fashions a golden phallus because Osiris' penis was lost in the Nile and swallowed by a catfish. And, while you MIGHT think Scripture tells a similar story, that would only be evidence of your stupidity.
@JWC3RD I have no idea what you commented above. It they were removed before I looked at them. As for the similarities between the Jesus myth and Horus, there are many results you can find with a quick Google search or just hop on over to youtu . be/SIMFz5ZKDVo and take a look. I read your comments on here and you live in a world of major delusion. Jews not knowing who their messiah is? Bible as literal facts? Prayer works? No Big Bang? Are you stupid or just not sane? Which is it?
@Haussofluv - I am aware that people try to CLAIM that there are "Christ-myths" in other religions and then claim Christianity "borrowed". That is simply not true. And, no, I am not the one living in delusion. I also never said there was no "Big Bang". Scripture speaks of God creating an expanse in the firmament, so I have no problem with the Universe expanding from nothing. And considering that you failed to see that, I am not the one who is either stupid or insane.
@FourDeuce01 Sorry, I at first replied to you as if you were JWC3RD. I deleted it and reposted it to his comment as I intended. His lies about history and the originality of Christianity or even insanity of his beliefs are instantly obvious to everyone not so seriously deluded. Or retarded. Or maybe he's just an evil scum who has no trouble lying and deceiving others to further his religious agenda. Oh well, he can wait for his Jewish zombie to return and give his everlasting life. Lol
@JWC3RD You have got to be kidding me. You believe in a Jewish zombie that supposedly was born of a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, who will return one day to kill off most of humanity and will make his special followers immortal, etc. And you believe this with certainty. And somehow you can't see just how stupid and insane it all is. And you are. Right... To believe the bible one has to believe these and other retarded myths and lies. But you have no trouble swallowing.
@JWC3RD Since when was an imitation penis real sex? If that was the case,anybody alone with themselves would count as having lost their virginity.(Sorry if that was you). Or the "Three wise men following a star"? Or the rest of the solar symbolism between Horus and Jesus? Google it then get back to me.Your intentional stupidity on the subject is staggering. Biblical scripture has no truth in reality. There is NO contemporary evidence or writing to prove any of the Jesus myths. You're delusional.
@Haussofluv - since it was fashioned - according to the myth - from something tangible. I am not the one who wrote the myth. But what I read is an account of actual sex, not a virgin birth. And, again, from what I read about Horus, there is NO connective symbolism between them.
@JWC3RD Osiris was incapable of sex since his organ was missing. And I also mentioned the connection between Horus' birth and that of Jesus with the Three Wise Men following a star being repeated in the Bible. Then there's Jesus's birthday being celebrated on the 25th, etc. You obviously didn't take the time to look. I even posted a video link to make it easier for you. You can stay intentionally ignorant with ridiculous claims that the Jesus myths come first. But that lie is easily disproved.
@JWC3RD The Gilgamesh as well as angels reference was to show that pretty much nothing in the Bible is original and was copied from Pagan sources. Horus was born of a virgin birth and his story, along with Osiris and his rebirth to become master over the souls of the dead, was combined in the Jesus myth. And pick up any history book. The other myths predate Christianity. Just as many myths of alleged virgin births, resurrected gods, etc. But yes, the Christ stories are myths. Prove otherwise. :)
@Haussofluv - The Gilgamesh Epic is not part of the Bible. Neither is Horus. And, sorry, the other "christ-myths" in other religions do not predate Christianity. The religions may, but the Christ stories were added AFTER Christ's ministry. They were not present in documents preceding Christianity.
@JWC3RD Since when did Christianity become older than the stories of Horus? Or of the stories of ancient Sumeria? Do you have any idea just how laughable that is? How about doing a quick Google search on the dates of those stories first. And yes, Horus is not part of the Bible, but the mythology was copied from it. Just as the Bible copied the Gilgamesh Epic, and the Persian concept of Angels, and the Noah's Ark story, etc. But don't take my word for it. Just look it up. Then get back to me.
@Haussofluv - Good grief, do you comprehend English or not. I did not say that NOTHING about Horus predates Christianity. What doesn't predate Christianity are the aspects of Horus that, you believe, present a Christ "myth" before Christianity. THAT part of the Horus chronicles is simply NOT TRUE.
@JWC3RD How is that NOT true? Really? Just where do you get your ridiculous information from? Even a quick Google search would have cleared up your misconceptions. But you obviously didn't do that. Or you're intentionally lying? Which one is it? Don't believe all the creationist garbage. They lie constantly and all of the "facts" that support their arguments are ludicrous and easily disproved. You can do better than this. You can be smarter than this. But only if you can be honest about it.
@Haussofluv - It is not true that there is a "Christ-myth" in the chronicles relating to Horus. There was NO virgin birth. Osiris' part was lost and Isis MADE a replacement from something TANGIBLE. NO virgin birth. And the one source I did look at listed a synopsis of all the tablets of the Gilgamesh Epic. NO Christ elements AT ALL. And, as I said, Lee Strobel -former atheist whose investigation to disprove Christianity led him to faith - has already researched it.
What he found was that these "OTHER" religions BORROWED from Christianity and that NO Christ element(s) existed in those religions PRIOR to Christianity. Think about it this way (not sure if you are a Star Wars fan). It's tantamount to what Lucas did with Return of the Jedi AT THE END, where he REPLACED Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christiansen in the apparition scene. It's a simple analogy, but I did have to make it simple enough for you to understand.
By the way, I am not sure it would have mattered anyway. You do realize that Scripturally, and even scientifically, EVERY person on the planet today has the SAME common female ancestor and the same common male ancestor. Science tries to have us believe that genetic Eve existed 60,000 years ago and that genetic Adam existed several thousand years before her (yeah, I will bet you think that makes logical sense, don't you? Try to think about why it really doesn't.)
The thing is, prior to finding out what Strobel discovered, my presumption was simply that, because ALL people come from two people and God gave the first Messianic prophecy BACK THEN (try to figure out which passage does that), it does not stretch logic that ALL men HAD the truth of prophecy and as they separated (at Babel), the prophecies became distorted, corrupted and some came to be told as past events. I could actually see it that way, but Strobel found the ACTUAL explanation.
@JWC3RD I already explained how modern DNA research has already disproved the ridiculous claims of the Bible about the origins of humanity. As well as the biblical time line being a complete joke about the age of modern humans. The fact that you are actually citing Lee Strobel as an authority shows how pathetic and lame your "evidence" really is. The guy's a quack, has no credibility with the scientific community, and is the subject of many videos pointing out his idiocy on Youtube. Another FAIL
@JWC3RD Again you are lying about what science actually says. You are talking about the study done by Rebecca Cann and the "Mitochrondrial Eve." They estimated Eve's age as 200,000 year ago, not 60,000 (Biblical "history" is still a joke). And Dr Cann specifically stated that "Eve" wasn't the first or only human woman during the time she lives, but "her life is the point from which all modern branches on humanity's family tree grew." Quit buying the creationist b.s. and look it up yourself.
@JWC3RD By the way, the age of the Y-chromosome "Adam" is estimated anywhere from 142,000 - 60,000. We are not sure because science is still learning about the Y-chromosome and don't know as much about it as we do the X-chromosome. In other words, our ancestral EVE CAME FIRST. Again in direct contradiction to what the Bible says. But no sane person actually believes anymore the bible as literally true and have to "reinterpret" it to make it in anyway possible. Your lies notwithstanding.
@JWC3RD And how in the world did ancient Egyptian mythology borrow from Christianity? Do you have any idea how old the stories of Horus are? And we have actually physical records of these stories that predate Judaism as well. You still didn't do that Google search on the ages of the stories. Your lies get more desperate and more laughable. Anyone reading this can disprove your claim in seconds. You still can't even be honest on this subject. It just makes you sound more foolish. Get over it.
@JWC3RD You're probably the only one I came across that made the ridiculous claim that Isis had sex with Osiris to conceive Horus, even though Osiris had no sex organ at the time. You don't notice this? You must be a real stud by yourself. And the Gilgamesh epic was to account for many of the stories in the Old Testament. And Lee Strobel is a total joke. He has been disproved and is a subject of many vids here on youtube. Only a total desperate nut would actually believe this guy's drivel.
@FourDeuce01 If I was an immoral person I would have been a preacher and have taken advantage of all these fools out there desperate to get taken advantage of. In Vegas there's an old saying that "Greed is the sign of the mark." People get desperate, especially when they realize that death is coming. Of course most of us like the idea of living forever. And when people tell us what we want to hear, in desperation lots of people believe them. But to me truth is more important than "feeling good."
@JWC3RD The Gilgamesh Epic and Account of the Deluge is where the Garden of Eden and Noah's Ark myths come from. The Horus stories are where most of the myths of Jesus come from. Your claims that the Biblical stories were the original versions is completely laughable and easily disproved. Just Google it.Your denial of history, and accepted history at that, is just insane. It's funny how the religious have to resort to the most obvious lies to make their case. But Look up the information yourself
@Haussofluv - I also don't doubt that the Akkadians had Great Deluge accounts. Nearly ALL cultures DO. Why? Because there was once a great, GLOBAL Deluge, just as is described in Genesis. That doesn't mean that Christianity borrowed it. Primarily since the story of the Great Flood is technically part of Judaism (being that it is in the Old Testament, Jewish Tanakh). So, sorry, no lies here. Lies on your side? Definitely. But not here.
@JWC3RD No, there are NOT worldwide accounts of a flood happening around the same time. The biblical flood account is a very close copy to the Gilgamesh epic. The details are just too similar for coincidence. And the Sumerian epic was dated and written long before any works of the Bible were. This is ALL historically verifiable facts. Even more certain than what we have for the life of Jesus.Your claims to the contrary continue to show how lame even your lies are. You can't even sound believable
The 'afterlife' is a man made creation that promises justice & fairness to the masses, since most people believe that they haven't gotten a fair shake. Never mind that there's nothing stopping them from getting that fair shake in real life, & that they should embrace their one & only life to live it to the best of their ability. The afterlife promises them things they didn't get, yet felt they deserve on earth. It's a death cult really & it squanders those poor fools lives to subjugation.
So, 1. You believe in an origin of the universe that has no God. That means you believe it on faith. What makes you right? 2. You presume and state as fact that there is no afterlife. How do you know? You are making a presumptive statement and claiming it as fact, when you cannot know. Again, that means you believe it on faith. 3. That question has been answered in Scripture. Don't you already know or are you oblivious to the truths of Scripture.
You also have a misunderstanding of God. God is not ALL-loving. He is immensely loving and His love is expressed through His Son, Jesus Christ. And let us hope that you live this life, getting all the enjoyment you can from it. Because believing that God and judgment are imaginary doesn't mean that they are imaginary. If they are real - and they are - you are being extremely and arrogantly stupid. But you are entitled to your stupidity. 4. Don't worry, your "situation" is coming.
@FourDeuce01 No, I don't actually have to prove God exists. He already did that. That you are too stupid, arrogant and prideful to accept the proof is on you.
@1AndrewTheWolf - Your response is, actually, not true. From various points of analysis, Judeo-Christianity is the only one that could be true. If you were to actually bother to conduct such an analysis yourself, you might come to realize why that is true. It is doubtful, though, that you will.
@SippinonMickeys - I will ask you as I have asked others. What proof would be sufficient? The truth is that I don't have to present you with proof. God has already done that. You have rejected it, most likely, because you are doing something Scripture condemns, you don't want to stop and you don't want to be told that what you are doing is wrong.
@SippinonMickeys - Odd that you think your eternity is nothing more than a bet. Stranger still that you would bet on there being no god than there being a God.
@JWC3RD Please explain how gOD proved his existence & which gOD do you refer? Your chance of actually believing in the correct gOD are one in a million.
@FourDeuce01 - Well, I don't believe in fairy tales, other than as literature. I do believe in God because His Word is not a fairy tale. Is that your best argument?
@JWC3RD Prove it. I'm easy & happy to jump on the bandwagon. How about praying my brothers legs back on. You know, the ones that got blown off by a vbied in Iraq?
@SippinonMickeys - Doubtful that you are easy and happy to jump on the Christian "bandwagon". I could pray for your brother's legs to be restored, but what if God has a ministry in store for him through that affliction? Joni Erickson-Tada was rendered a quadriplegic in a diving accident. Her ministry is amazing and would not be what it was, had the accident not happened. God does not promise us - in this fallen world - immunity from tragedy. He promises us comfort in our grief....
and He offers us eternal life. One thing I can tell you is that, if your brother comes to faith in Christ, the day will come when he will be restored in whole. However, since you don't seem interested in praying for your own brother, what kind of impact are you having on him, through your unbelief? Has your atheism restored his legs? The thing is, were God to restore his legs, you would come up with some rationale to still reject God.
@1AndrewTheWolf I don't dismiss the possibility that such an animal existed at some time. Considering that, scientifically speaking, the current number of species is estimated to be around 50,000,000 and the number of those cataloged is less than 10 million AND considering that the current estimate of species is, scientifically speaking, only representative of about 4% of all the life that has EVER existed on the Earth, why would you hold to an absolute belief that they never existed?
big bang? A quantum fluctuation, a temporary change in the energy of a system which does not violate conservation of energy. We've known this for some time. And it makes sense, and is in fact quite elegant. But for some reason, people don't want to learn about quantum mechanics.
@moldrad - but the quantum fluctuations that science claims exist, exist IN SPACE. Prior to the Big Bang, there was NO SPACE. Space is created by the expansion and did not, except in an UNPROVABLE THEORY, pre-exist the Big Bang or the singularity that became the Universe. So where did these quantum fluctuations exist? Science is saying that NOTHING existed, and now even say that not even the singularity existed. If there were "quantum fluctuations" where did they come from?
@SippinonMickeys - God is the UNCAUSED, First Cause. The same criteria would be required of you in your secular belief. The thing is, it actually (at least, to me) makes far more logical, analytical and rational sense to see that the Uncaused First Cause would have to be that which possessed sentience, intelligence and self-awareness. This is true because a non-intelligent uncaused first cause, if that were all there was, could not influence or manifest anything outside itself.
@JWC3RD watch "'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 " on youtube Krause explains it much better than I could. IMVHO no theory is un provable forever. DNA research has done much to prove evolution that Darwin couldn't. Quantum theory was just mathematics until someone used it to build the computer you're writing on.
@moldrad - Sorry, DNA doesn't actually prove evolution. And Quantum theory is a rather large spectrum of physics, some of which delves into the actual observation of sub-atomic phenomena and application of those observations and some that delves strictly into the realm of hypothetical possibility without being necessarily probable or actual. And, yes, Big Bang cosmology is not something anyone, after the fact, will ever be able to prove.
Considering the level of proof you and others, like you, require, it could never be proven. For us, the Big Bang is a one-time event, no repeats, no eyewitnesses (from your perspective) and nothing but speculation as to what existed before (if anything) and how that "what" expanded into our Universe. Therefore, you SHOULD be willing to accept the possibility of an infinitely powerful intelligence creating the Universe....and, yet, you don't.
@moldrad - I have no problem with you asking questions. I encourage you to continue to ask questions. I know that God "did it", but I still want to find out as much about what He did and how He did it as I can. And the thing about asking questions. Are you asking the right questions and are you getting the right answers? If you are not sincere in your search for truth, you will never find it. All you will find (accept) is that which fits your presuppositions.
@JWC3RD which god? There have been so many. Why not a goddess? Aren't females more prone to creating living or at least long running functioning systems? I'd like to say I have no preconceived notices but a long busy life has embedded more than I'm aware of. Thankfully the internet has exposed me to alternate viewpoints I never came across before. I have studied all major and many minor faiths I've come across and only 2 that made sense to me.
@JWC3RD I would really like to know how you "know" you have experienced the one true god (out of nearly 10 thousand that have been invented). Please enlighten me.
@RealiveProds - So where did the "quantum fluctuations" come from? Where did they exist, since "space' is the result of the expanding singularity of energy? And try to understand, if it were possible for "quantum fluctuations" to exist prior to the existence of the singularity of energy (which became the Universe), then it is not true that there was "absolute nothing". "Quantum fluctuations" is something. It would also have to have a cause - being that there is no intelligence behind them.
And, for those "quantum fluctuations" to generate any kind of particles, virtual or otherwise, they cannot be generated from true nothingness. The fleeting particles might (because of their brevity) not violate Conservation of energy, but certainly real particles that have (according to the secular perspective) existed for billions of years and formed the galaxies, stars and planets, most certainly WOULD be violating the Laws of Conservation of Energy.
In fact, the whole point of virtual particles being presumed to come from nothing is only allowable under those principles because they are very brief in their virtual existence.
@RealiveProds - Pretty much, YES always. Otherwise, it VIOLATES the Law of Conservation of Energy - you know that crucial one where matter/energy can neither be created out of nothing or destroyed, it can only change its existing state.
@JWC3RD The law of conservation of energy fall apart at the quantum level because time is non-linear. Energy is borrowed from the future, then paid back almost immediately, but if this happens in the presence of the event horizon of a black hole, then this prevents the particle and anti-particle from annihilating each other. The black hole therefore creates matter.
@RealiveProds - The law of conservation of energy, according to the concepts relating to quantum fluctuations only "fall apart" BRIEFLY and then disappear (but this is actually SPECULATION). What you say next I find even more amusing. Energy is borrowed from the future? Again, prove it. By the way, matter being created by quantum fluctuations occurring at the event horizon of a black hole? You are aware that prior to and just shortly after the Big Bang, black holes did not exist, right?
You DO realize that black holes are the result of massive stars collapsing in upon themselves, right? Stars that, according to your perspective, formed after the energy from the Big Bang converted into the first particles and then coalesced into great masses of gases until they finally "ignited" into radiant stars. By the way, you have observed matter being created at the event horizon of a black hole? When did you do that?
@JWC3RD Quantum fluctions exist in space, they don't "come from" anywhere, they are a property of space. And you are right, space is not complete nothingness, it has properties. Space exists outside of the universe (so does not require a universe for it to exist), but time on the other hand requires matter and/or energy (I think - to too sure on the properties of time) Quantum fluctuations are observable and measureable in the large particle accelerators.
@RealiveProds - Your answer raises a problem with the idea that quantum fluctuations spawned the energy that expanded into the Universe. IF quantum fluctuations exist in space, then prior to the Big Bang, prior to the point where physicists (like Hawking) say NOTHING existed, not even the singularity of super-hot, super-condensed energy, THERE WAS NO SPACE. Space didn't exist. Space is the product OF THE EXPANSION. So, again, where were these pre-Big Bang quantum fluctuations residing?
And I have no doubt that quantum fluctuations have, perhaps, been observed in particle accelerators. The problem is, those exist now. Stars exist now, but they didn't exist prior to the Big Bang. And, if quantum fluctuations require space in which to reside, then prior to the Big Bang, they did not exist either because the requisite space in which they function did NOT exist. There was NOTHING. Time did not exist. Space and all its properties did NOT exist.
The thing that I find most amusing about you and others who like to post about the speculations of quantum theory is that you are so willing to accept as probable fact something that you can NEVER prove. But you, and other atheists, dismiss the notion of God without blinking. And more amazing still, you don't even see your own hypocrisy.
@JWC3RD I am a design engineer. I make my living by understanding how things really work, knowing the laws of physics so that I can design things that work first time - thereby proving my hypothesis was correct. The first time I see ANY evidence for ANY god I will be the first to admit I was wrong - although which god to credit I can't imagine. Trouble is, some idiots in this world see something like a frozen waterfall, and immediately see a god behind it.
@RealiveProds - Your designs require that you know the laws of Quantum physics or subatomic structure? However, as a design engineer, I am curious why it is that you can look at the mechanisms within living cells and argue that those mechanisms just happened by chance? Considering the one important reason: could any of your designs come into existence by random, natural processes? If so, then why are you wasting time and charging us money for stuff that can spontaneously generate itself?
@JWC3RD - or more precisely, where were the quantum fluctations fluctuating? Not in space as it didn't exist yet. And space exists OUTSIDE the Universe? Prove it. Your statement is presumptive SPECULATION. Did you mean that other dimensions exist outside our Universe? While I would tend to accept that notion (considering that Scripture speaks of levels of "heaven"), you, Mr. Show me the evidence accept that for what reason? Can you prove those dimensions actually exist? If yes, then do so.
@JWC3RD These ideas come from some very deep mathematics, they are not simply deamed up on the spot like ALL religious dogma. And the mathematics, although not yet perfect, do make reliable predictions that are OBSERVABLE. If you truly want to know some real answers, then you must buy some books and do some reading - it's not something that can be explained in a few hundered words.
@JWC3RD I think you are reading some old physics books. This stuff is pretty tenuous as some of it is based on conjecture, and has changed in the last couple of years. The latest information I heard was from a Lawrence Krauss lecture a few months ago, and a documentary that Brian Greene did just before that. I think the general idea is that space-time does exist before the big bang - and Hawking does support this - see Brane or M Theory.
Nothing will happen to people who kill and torture. Absolutely nothing. Just like nothing will happen to the victims. That's why it's unfair to kill. That's why I even dare to say that atheists might even have a stronger sense of morality. Because they understand that everybody's equal when they're alive ánd when they're dead. That's why you can never take a live away. Killers will not be punished in hell, so they have to be punished here on earth, and be put away for the rest of their lives...
mamavanR 2 hours ago
You have a defected brain wiring...a messed up amygdala...the logic part of your brain also is messed up....short NTX surge or high...not sure......you are just born that way, I can only be happy that you are not related to me. Such a pity...waste of a beautiful face and brain space
scientistrules2 9 hours ago
but is that thin JC, a fictional character from some desert born to a virgin mama who was married to her uncle and was the 22nd messiah claim to be....common, how shallow can u possibly be??? grow up, the world is a nasty fucked up unfair place. It's a wild animal world and we humans are the biggest assholes among all the animals who are ruining this planet already...grow up. LEARN, THINK
scientistrules2 9 hours ago
God believes that he/she was created out of nothing... ;)
The world is not balanced. That's why there are laws (trying to be the justice, which not always work) Take it or leave it... there are things we cannot change. Creating a god that promise justice doesn't make it truth.
God would have to be really selfish to want us to believe in him, knowing all the reasons we have not to believe in him.
When you have nothing to do about a situation=you don't do anything. There is not such situation
XxXFafnerXxX 21 hours ago
You seem to be a very sensible, down to earth and intelligent person, we need more people like you in this world. Also, you are incredibly beautiful.
Swedmonkei 23 hours ago
Your arguments are ridiculous. Why are you concerned about justice? If you are atheist and there is no higher power to answer to, why do you care about things like justice and morality? What is your moral compass? What makes a person good? Who decides what is good or moral? I would LOVE for you to provide answers to these questions, mainly because you can't. God is a pushover? I guess you will find out when you are begging for your eternal soul. Good luck...whoops I don't believe in luck.
jberton73 23 hours ago
@jberton73 What a silly comment. Buddhists have no god to answer to. Are you claiming that those people are more immoral than any other. I guess it`s just the opposite. You do not need a god to be moral. person.
ndzoko 23 hours ago
@ndzoko only a shallow asshole as this woman is would claim someone like me who is working on childhood cancer day and night or my husband working on maralria for yrs in Africa ( and made a huge difference in one of the common drugs) and many many other atheist scientists and engineers who are the reason she is NOT dead or crippled by age 5 like she would have been under that man made biblical God of hers- would go to hell ( am baffled& convinced,these people have defected brain wiring)
scientistrules2 9 hours ago
@jberton73
"Good luck...whoops I don't believe in luck."
Right. You believe in a childish fairy tale.
FourDeuce01 22 hours ago
@jberton73 You fail to understand that we human beings are intelligent enough to create a moral ourselves, and that moral 2000 years ago is different from what is moral now. Read your bible and cry to god why did he said such immoral things on it. Trust me and everybody else as you trust god, then you will find a better understanding and an even higher level of trust and understanding. I do not take religious teaching, because I've found myself an even better way of livin and caring about others
XxXFafnerXxX 21 hours ago
@XxXFafnerXxX btw, so called moral laws are all man made terms and laws that are taken out of scientific laws pertaining to a fit primate society of humans...that is why many scientific positions fall in the positions of modern civil laws or vise versa..like if you steal or kill or rape, etc you get punished or must get punished, as if this was not the rational scientific position for the social primate mammal homo sapien, we would have gone extinct LONG ago.Our ancestors were great observers
scientistrules2 9 hours ago
@jberton73 You sure don't like to think, huh? We all live in the same world, we want it to be a good experience while we're here. The "moral compass" we have is whatever makes the world a better place. How do you get your morals? The bible? You believe slavery is moral if you follow the bible, among many many other things that are considered immoral today. How do you explain cannibals in the jungle? They don't think it's wrong to eat people. Guess god forgot to install the compass?
TheStarvingSamurai 15 hours ago
@TheStarvingSamurai
"You sure don't like to think, huh?"
It's against his religion. ;)
FourDeuce01 13 hours ago
@jberton73 If you have a soul, tell me where it is located ? When, at what moment, it became imbedded in your body ? Where did it come from ? Are you ready to assume that E.G. a one hour old sygote( a couple of cells) has a soul ? If life is so precious to god, the creator of life, why does he allow, or cause, 4,500,000 stillbirths a year ?
ndzoko 6 hours ago
There's no punishment when I die? Oh, then I can do whatever I want? I can rape and steal and kill and lie and be greedy and rip off other people and commit adultery and get drunk all the time and smoke weed and inject heroin and have sex with animals and step on people while climmbing to the top of corporate and whatever I want and as long as I can get away with it in society! I will just die and nothing happens to me? Thanks for changing my views about life! I feel refreshed now!!! Thanks!!!
yoursola 1 day ago
@yoursola Yes, probably nothing supernatural prevents you from doing that nor will punish you afterwards. Is the fear of punishment the only thing that prevents you from raping and killing others? Have you no conscience? No empathy? If true, then you belong to a cell, one with white walls.
Also, wishing for a cosmic judge doesn't make it true. Russell (rougly) said: if you have a box full of rotten oranges, then you don't suppose that there must be another box with fresh ones "for balance".
daveluik 1 day ago
@daveluik What do you mean by conscience? People violate it everyday! With no remorse!! You do!!! I do!!! It's called survival of the fittest as Darwin put it!! I want to grab all I can in this world!! I want to have as much fun as I can and be as selfish as I want!! Does that mean I have to be locked up because of what I want!! Then you would have to be locked up to!!! I only have one life, so how dare something get in my way as a conscience or by what other people DEEM as wrong.
yoursola 1 day ago
@yoursola You fail to understand WHO gave you YOUR life, and what you are designed to DO with it. Good luck with that on judgment day.
jberton73 23 hours ago
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@jberton73
"You fail to understand WHO gave you YOUR life, and what you are designed to DO with it."
If you can prove either of those claims, go ahead and do it.
FourDeuce01 22 hours ago
@jberton73 LOL
scientistrules2 9 hours ago
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@jberton73 You fail to understand WHO gave you YOUR life, Didn`t your parents tell you who gave you your life ? What you are designed to do with it, is you own business. Some become mass-murderers, some become saints. There cannot be a judgement day. God is ( supposed ) to be LOVE. Love ,does not keep record of any wrongdoing. How can you have a judgement without a record of wrongdoing ?
ndzoko 6 hours ago
@yoursola Hey, I'm sorry for my arrogant tone before. I tend to forget that when commenting in the Internet.
Yes, we violate it every day, but aren't there degrees of violation? Petty lies and rape are on different levels. We share some beliefs, hence states and laws: I'll suppress my anger and lust if you'll agree to do the same.
Here comes democracy: dictatorship of the masses (most people can enjoy life more when they're cooperating. Also think of long term vs short term pleasure).
daveluik 20 hours ago
How the universe started from nothing at all
Where the universe comes from
Why was their a “big bang”
What is going to happen at the end of it all
“The Answer to 42” By Ronald von Mitchel, at Lulu.com
rvm429111 1 day ago
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I noticed that you said " Praying doesn't do a DAM THING" You said this with conviction. How would you know that praying does not do a DAM thing if you had not tried this only to get 0.0 results from it. Your prayers may have gotten 0.0 results but that does not standardize all results all those that pray. How come atheist target Christians. Besides if God is not real why bother to target those who think God is? However for me God is Real
zellymusic 1 day ago
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zellymusic 1 day ago
get me a drink woman
1marceltony 1 day ago
Jodie Fosters eyes :)
LokiV 1 day ago
I only have one question for this woman though. Where is my sandwich?
TheWiseYoung 1 day ago
@JWC3RD Your acting like an unruly child ... let's open your bible and see what should be done .... ah ... I see .... stoned to death. Right then. If this book is on good parenting I am disturbed that anyone would defer to it in any way to live their life and raise their children. Chilling. Not sure if it belongs in both the Fiction and Horror sections of libraries.
Albertaguy321 1 day ago
Neither get justice either way. Murderers can on their death bed pray to god, accept Jesus and all that is apparently enough for them to go to heaven. Remember, being good or bad doesn't get you into heaven, only loyalty.
Evil atheists would go to same place as Good atheists.
As to "best believe as a safe bet" well believe in WHICH religion? Hindu? Buddah? Scientology?
Treblaine 1 day ago
@Treblaine
"As to "best believe as a safe bet" well believe in WHICH religion? Hindu? Buddah? Scientology?"
The only way to be completely "safe" would be to believe in ALL of them. Too bad that's not possible.
FourDeuce01 1 day ago
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Anyone who knows anything about time and space knows that the phrase "before the big bang" doesn't make sense because space AND TIME as we know it were created during the big bang. That means whatever created the big bang is timeless. Being the philosopher I am, I believe there are divine beings who created and are managing this universe. They are timeless. In a sense, we are timeless too. We never experience the past nor the future, only the present.
theblueisyou 1 day ago
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theblueisyou 1 day ago
great I would like to know more people like you
alexander74511 1 day ago
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theblueisyou 1 day ago
Re: question2/afterlife. Its not productive to go over Hitler/Sadaam's "getting away with it"... Whether or not you anecdotally find that, well, Hitler/Sadaam had a rough time before they died, it still has nothing to do with the existence of an afterlife. Just as the will to believe an afterlife has nothing to do with the existence of an afterlife.
skat1140 2 days ago
How can people who believe in God believe that any sort of creator would be so callous as our esteemed creator? Why is it so important that we all have blind faith in his existence? Is this his entertainment? I mean if I were all knowing and eternal...I would get pretty bored. Maybe I would make a game for myself and establish rules for it. The rules would at least insert an element of uncertainty.
My take? I'd rather believe in a world with no God than a God who would be so cruel as that.
Prometheus1st 2 days ago
their aren't really one correct "atheistic" answer to these questions.
MartianSanta 2 days ago
i listened to you not answer the first question ,then turned you off, what is the point of your Q@A video?
mcgeogheganj 3 days ago
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*Check out my videos "Religion is ridiculous" (specifically christianity)...good stuff, rate it!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch and have an open mind....Atheists go check them out and give them a thumbs up! Help spread the truth!!*
gasmask4poop 3 days ago
You sound very pragmatic and logical. One problem, if you haven't experimented with something you cannot 100% be sure. Ifs and lots of ifs. Now, let's do a survey around the whole planet and ask how many people has had an aperishion of an unicorn or even experienced one, vs an aperishion of God or Christ. What do scientists know about the Spirit real? Since you don't believe in God you also dismiss spirit beings. Go play with a wigi board and see the trouble you'll find.
wagtec 3 days ago
I agree with every word you said.By the way, you are beautiful
Jaxxey98 3 days ago
i dont know what its called in English but in Dutch we call this "open doors". I cant belive that anyone with half a brain is willing to debate on such a low level. All those things have been said.
meandi10000 3 days ago
@meandi10000 Because if an intelligent explanation helps to prevent one more theist from wrapping themselves up in a religious comfort blanket, then it's worth the effort.
RealiveProds 3 days ago
ofc you can create something out of nothing.
stoneking1912 4 days ago
hell is not this myth of fire and suffering in constant agony , hell is not believing in jesus in god jesus said i am the truth and the light all that believes in me ?
mcgeogheganj 4 days ago
I am so attracted to you right now. LOL
LongDriveChamp03 4 days ago
As a soldier in elite forces, I had to make difficult decisions.wthout divine intercerception. Moral doesn't come from god. Just study the history. The main question is where did the universe came from. "the big bang" did not need a god. "ex nihilo nihil fit" is wrong, because if energy and matter always sums up zero, U don't need god to explain that. Time and space are connected. There was no time to god create a big bang. It simply didn't exist. Moral, U can do horrible things in god's name.
Adamson11x 4 days ago
@Adamson11x - What?
JWC3RD 4 days ago
First thing I thought was "She's cute, too bad she's stupid."
Then I found out she wasn't stupid, and was happy.
Also your mix of Aussie and American accent is adorable.
RupertAndCheese 5 days ago 2
Two hands working is worth more than a billion clasped hands praying people.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - Actually, you are incorrect. A study was done on the efficacy of prayer and the researchers were astonished to find that surgical patients (who did not know that others were praying for them had a higher recovery rate than patients who had no one praying). And if only a billion people would take the same moment to pray to the One, True God for anything....well, it would be amazing.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Nope. There have been at least 10 studies, which have shown that it is inconclusive or downright bad to have people pray for you. The 2006 Mind/Body Institute showed that "patients who knew they were being prayed for had a higher rate of post-operative complications like abnormal heart rhythms, perhaps because of the expectations the prayers created, the researchers suggested."
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - According to Dr. David R. Hodge, an assistant professor of social work in the College of Human Services at Arizona State University, there have been 17 and his comprehensive analysis of all 17 seems to indicate that there is. The thing that I would have to look at, though, is the raw data. There was a study - different subject - done back in 1992 where the researchers claimed a particular conclusion, but the actual data didn't actually prove that conclusion.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
However, Hodge does say that prayer alone is not enough in these situations. Plus, there are also other factors that must be weighed in the issue of intercessory prayer. For example, what were the actual levels of faith of those actually praying? Also, the one study I had heard about didn't inform the patients that they "may or may not" receive prayer. They weren't informed at all, so there was no expectation of efficacy on their part.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
I have seen payer answer, not in a health related issue, but I have seen it occur. So I know it does work. That is not to say that God answers the way we want Him to all the time. There are times when what we ask for is not what God knows to be in our best interest. Ultimately, since there seems to be conflicting sentiments among researchers, you are going to accept that which fits your presumed non-belief, just as I will be inclined to accept that with fits my belief.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Wow that indeed it very very convenient. I'm glad people aren't falling for that line of bullshit so much anymore.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Anecdotal statements are not evidence.
1AndrewTheWolf 4 days ago
@JWC3RD So you understand... prayer doesn't work & has never been shown to do so via scientific method? Good you're heading down the road of truth.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD The study was run by Harvard University Medical School cardiologist Dr. Herbert Benson and published in The American Heart Journal, and was by far the most rigorous and comprehensive study on the effects of intercessory prayer on the health and recovery of patients ever conducted. Prayer failed.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD If a billion people prayed at the same moment, then a whole lot of actual work would be left undone. There may be some feel good moments though. LOL
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD BTW which of the hundreds of gODs do you espouse to be the 'One true Dog?"
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
I like 'If you don't prey' instead of 'If you don't pray..."
The thing that is lost on theists is that they are indeed preyed upon. Not in the stalking killing sense of the concept, but the reasoning & thinking sense of it.
Sam Harris put it best when he said ALL theists are alike. They cling to a hope & faith that is immeasurable & unprovable all in the hope that they are right & everyone else is wrong. It's the conspiracy theory bug that afflicts so many. The need 2 know what others don't.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - I am not preyed upon. God offers his children discernment. I have also not surrendered my ability to reason. In fact, what I have is seasoned and reasoned faith. What amazes me is that everything you would call fact is nothing more than a faith belief. Belief that the scientists aren't lying. Speaking of which, why do you believe them? How do you KNOW that they aren't lying to you? Considering how scientists are increasingly lying about their research, that is.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
And it isn't that we hope we are right. God's Word is right. We simply accept it as what it is.....true. You are also wrong in the claim that we have a need to know what others don't. I would rather EVERYONE knew Christ in a personal relationship and had God's Grace imparted to them. I would not wish that anyone would have to suffer an eternity apart from God. No conspiracy. Just truth.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
Your friend is grabbing at Pacal's wager. First off she had better have the right gOD. In the Abrahamic trinity of religions one says believe in Christ as your living savior or go to hell, one says 'if' you believe in JC as a divine savior u will go to hell, & the last says JC was a heretic & fraud & the true messiah is coming & will send u 2 hell if you chose the other 2. Being pious is a waste of ur life, if there is a gOD pull a Bertram Russel on him... there's no way he can refute you. LOL
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - You are incorrect. Judaism actually believes in the Messiah. Of course, they failed to heed the prophecies of their own books that foretold to them that they would reject Him when He came the first time. Christianity is nothing more than the fulfillment of those First Advent prophecies of Judaism. So, really, they are in synch, but the Jewish people (really the religious leaders) not willing to cede power to Christ, rejected Him.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
And I am in no way pious. I am anything but pious. It is because I am a sinner that I have placed my faith and trust in Jesus Christ. I do not trust either what I can do or what I can say to save me. I can, however, trust Him and what He did. And if it turns out that I don't actually belong to Him, then I get what I deserved in the first place. And do you seriously believe Bertram Russel has the capacity to out-think God?
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Well since Russel was real & gOD is a fallacy, yes I do believe he could out think a made up mythological being. I can out think Obi Wan. No problem.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Nope I am correct. They believe in the Messiah. Just not yours. Christianity is nothing more than the stolen pagan myths from before it's creation by men who understood that religion was at the time the means to power.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - Gee, I thought I made it clear that they rejected Y'shuah as Messiah. I also thought I made it clear that their own prophecies foretold that they would reject their Messiah (which they did). What is really funny is that religious Jews STILL reject Him, but look forward to the coming of Messiah and they still have, within the Judaic portions of Scripture all those prophecies that foretold of their rejection of Him.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
And Lee Strobel (former atheist, who investigated Christianity to prove it wrong and wound up becoming a Christian) did an investigation into the claims that Christianity stole from other beliefs. The truth is actually that they stole from Christianity. The truth is that, prior to the time of Christ, there were NO Christ "myths" in those religions.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD Gilgamesh Epic and Account of the Deluge, Utnapishtim, Osiris Dying and Rising, Horus being born of a Virgin and redeeming the Father, the Persian concept of the Mala'ikah (angels) and the concept of a war between the powers of Light and Dark and a Judgement Day, etc.ALL of Judeo-Christian mythology was copied from other Pagan sources, including the Jesus myths. Nothing new there. Pick up a history book before making such ridiculous claims. But why let facts get in the way of your faith?
Haussofluv 4 days ago
@Haussofluv - In looking at the summaries of the Gilgamesh Epic, there is no Christ "myth" contained within it. And again, Strobel investigated this and found that prior to Christ, those "Christ myths" in other religions weren't there. They are only found afterward, indicating that those religions borrowed from Christianity and not as you attempt to claim. In looking at information on Horus, there is no Christ-"mythology" mentioned at all.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
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JWC3RD 4 days ago
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Also, you lie when you say that Horus includes a virgin birth scenario. It does not. Isis fashions a golden phallus because Osiris' penis was lost in the Nile and swallowed by a catfish. And, while you MIGHT think Scripture tells a similar story, that would only be evidence of your stupidity.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
So, Haus....are you simply a liar or are you incredibly stupid?
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD I have no idea what you commented above. It they were removed before I looked at them. As for the similarities between the Jesus myth and Horus, there are many results you can find with a quick Google search or just hop on over to youtu . be/SIMFz5ZKDVo and take a look. I read your comments on here and you live in a world of major delusion. Jews not knowing who their messiah is? Bible as literal facts? Prayer works? No Big Bang? Are you stupid or just not sane? Which is it?
Haussofluv 4 days ago
@Haussofluv - I am aware that people try to CLAIM that there are "Christ-myths" in other religions and then claim Christianity "borrowed". That is simply not true. And, no, I am not the one living in delusion. I also never said there was no "Big Bang". Scripture speaks of God creating an expanse in the firmament, so I have no problem with the Universe expanding from nothing. And considering that you failed to see that, I am not the one who is either stupid or insane.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD
"I am not the one who is either stupid or insane."
Right. You are BOTH.
FourDeuce01 3 days ago
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Haussofluv 3 days ago
@FourDeuce01 Sorry, I at first replied to you as if you were JWC3RD. I deleted it and reposted it to his comment as I intended. His lies about history and the originality of Christianity or even insanity of his beliefs are instantly obvious to everyone not so seriously deluded. Or retarded. Or maybe he's just an evil scum who has no trouble lying and deceiving others to further his religious agenda. Oh well, he can wait for his Jewish zombie to return and give his everlasting life. Lol
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@Haussofluv
Hopefully he'll hold his breath waiting for his zombie's return. ;)
FourDeuce01 3 days ago
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@JWC3RD You have got to be kidding me. You believe in a Jewish zombie that supposedly was born of a virgin, walked on water, turned water into wine, who will return one day to kill off most of humanity and will make his special followers immortal, etc. And you believe this with certainty. And somehow you can't see just how stupid and insane it all is. And you are. Right... To believe the bible one has to believe these and other retarded myths and lies. But you have no trouble swallowing.
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@JWC3RD Since when was an imitation penis real sex? If that was the case,anybody alone with themselves would count as having lost their virginity.(Sorry if that was you). Or the "Three wise men following a star"? Or the rest of the solar symbolism between Horus and Jesus? Google it then get back to me.Your intentional stupidity on the subject is staggering. Biblical scripture has no truth in reality. There is NO contemporary evidence or writing to prove any of the Jesus myths. You're delusional.
Haussofluv 4 days ago
@Haussofluv - since it was fashioned - according to the myth - from something tangible. I am not the one who wrote the myth. But what I read is an account of actual sex, not a virgin birth. And, again, from what I read about Horus, there is NO connective symbolism between them.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD Osiris was incapable of sex since his organ was missing. And I also mentioned the connection between Horus' birth and that of Jesus with the Three Wise Men following a star being repeated in the Bible. Then there's Jesus's birthday being celebrated on the 25th, etc. You obviously didn't take the time to look. I even posted a video link to make it easier for you. You can stay intentionally ignorant with ridiculous claims that the Jesus myths come first. But that lie is easily disproved.
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@JWC3RD The Gilgamesh as well as angels reference was to show that pretty much nothing in the Bible is original and was copied from Pagan sources. Horus was born of a virgin birth and his story, along with Osiris and his rebirth to become master over the souls of the dead, was combined in the Jesus myth. And pick up any history book. The other myths predate Christianity. Just as many myths of alleged virgin births, resurrected gods, etc. But yes, the Christ stories are myths. Prove otherwise. :)
Haussofluv 4 days ago
@Haussofluv - The Gilgamesh Epic is not part of the Bible. Neither is Horus. And, sorry, the other "christ-myths" in other religions do not predate Christianity. The religions may, but the Christ stories were added AFTER Christ's ministry. They were not present in documents preceding Christianity.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD Since when did Christianity become older than the stories of Horus? Or of the stories of ancient Sumeria? Do you have any idea just how laughable that is? How about doing a quick Google search on the dates of those stories first. And yes, Horus is not part of the Bible, but the mythology was copied from it. Just as the Bible copied the Gilgamesh Epic, and the Persian concept of Angels, and the Noah's Ark story, etc. But don't take my word for it. Just look it up. Then get back to me.
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@Haussofluv - Good grief, do you comprehend English or not. I did not say that NOTHING about Horus predates Christianity. What doesn't predate Christianity are the aspects of Horus that, you believe, present a Christ "myth" before Christianity. THAT part of the Horus chronicles is simply NOT TRUE.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD How is that NOT true? Really? Just where do you get your ridiculous information from? Even a quick Google search would have cleared up your misconceptions. But you obviously didn't do that. Or you're intentionally lying? Which one is it? Don't believe all the creationist garbage. They lie constantly and all of the "facts" that support their arguments are ludicrous and easily disproved. You can do better than this. You can be smarter than this. But only if you can be honest about it.
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@Haussofluv - It is not true that there is a "Christ-myth" in the chronicles relating to Horus. There was NO virgin birth. Osiris' part was lost and Isis MADE a replacement from something TANGIBLE. NO virgin birth. And the one source I did look at listed a synopsis of all the tablets of the Gilgamesh Epic. NO Christ elements AT ALL. And, as I said, Lee Strobel -former atheist whose investigation to disprove Christianity led him to faith - has already researched it.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
What he found was that these "OTHER" religions BORROWED from Christianity and that NO Christ element(s) existed in those religions PRIOR to Christianity. Think about it this way (not sure if you are a Star Wars fan). It's tantamount to what Lucas did with Return of the Jedi AT THE END, where he REPLACED Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christiansen in the apparition scene. It's a simple analogy, but I did have to make it simple enough for you to understand.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
By the way, I am not sure it would have mattered anyway. You do realize that Scripturally, and even scientifically, EVERY person on the planet today has the SAME common female ancestor and the same common male ancestor. Science tries to have us believe that genetic Eve existed 60,000 years ago and that genetic Adam existed several thousand years before her (yeah, I will bet you think that makes logical sense, don't you? Try to think about why it really doesn't.)
JWC3RD 3 days ago
The thing is, prior to finding out what Strobel discovered, my presumption was simply that, because ALL people come from two people and God gave the first Messianic prophecy BACK THEN (try to figure out which passage does that), it does not stretch logic that ALL men HAD the truth of prophecy and as they separated (at Babel), the prophecies became distorted, corrupted and some came to be told as past events. I could actually see it that way, but Strobel found the ACTUAL explanation.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD I already explained how modern DNA research has already disproved the ridiculous claims of the Bible about the origins of humanity. As well as the biblical time line being a complete joke about the age of modern humans. The fact that you are actually citing Lee Strobel as an authority shows how pathetic and lame your "evidence" really is. The guy's a quack, has no credibility with the scientific community, and is the subject of many videos pointing out his idiocy on Youtube. Another FAIL
Haussofluv 2 days ago
@JWC3RD Again you are lying about what science actually says. You are talking about the study done by Rebecca Cann and the "Mitochrondrial Eve." They estimated Eve's age as 200,000 year ago, not 60,000 (Biblical "history" is still a joke). And Dr Cann specifically stated that "Eve" wasn't the first or only human woman during the time she lives, but "her life is the point from which all modern branches on humanity's family tree grew." Quit buying the creationist b.s. and look it up yourself.
Haussofluv 2 days ago
@JWC3RD By the way, the age of the Y-chromosome "Adam" is estimated anywhere from 142,000 - 60,000. We are not sure because science is still learning about the Y-chromosome and don't know as much about it as we do the X-chromosome. In other words, our ancestral EVE CAME FIRST. Again in direct contradiction to what the Bible says. But no sane person actually believes anymore the bible as literally true and have to "reinterpret" it to make it in anyway possible. Your lies notwithstanding.
Haussofluv 2 days ago
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@JWC3RD
"What he found was that these "OTHER" religions BORROWED from Christianity"
Wrong. Strobel didn't FIND that. He ASSumed it.
FourDeuce01 3 days ago
@JWC3RD And how in the world did ancient Egyptian mythology borrow from Christianity? Do you have any idea how old the stories of Horus are? And we have actually physical records of these stories that predate Judaism as well. You still didn't do that Google search on the ages of the stories. Your lies get more desperate and more laughable. Anyone reading this can disprove your claim in seconds. You still can't even be honest on this subject. It just makes you sound more foolish. Get over it.
Haussofluv 2 days ago
@JWC3RD You're probably the only one I came across that made the ridiculous claim that Isis had sex with Osiris to conceive Horus, even though Osiris had no sex organ at the time. You don't notice this? You must be a real stud by yourself. And the Gilgamesh epic was to account for many of the stories in the Old Testament. And Lee Strobel is a total joke. He has been disproved and is a subject of many vids here on youtube. Only a total desperate nut would actually believe this guy's drivel.
Haussofluv 2 days ago
@Haussofluv
"Only a total desperate nut would actually believe this guy's drivel."
That's what Strobel counts on. He knows there are LOTS of desperate nuts out there just dying for more crap to swallow. ;)
FourDeuce01 2 days ago
@FourDeuce01 If I was an immoral person I would have been a preacher and have taken advantage of all these fools out there desperate to get taken advantage of. In Vegas there's an old saying that "Greed is the sign of the mark." People get desperate, especially when they realize that death is coming. Of course most of us like the idea of living forever. And when people tell us what we want to hear, in desperation lots of people believe them. But to me truth is more important than "feeling good."
Haussofluv 2 days ago
@JWC3RD The Gilgamesh Epic and Account of the Deluge is where the Garden of Eden and Noah's Ark myths come from. The Horus stories are where most of the myths of Jesus come from. Your claims that the Biblical stories were the original versions is completely laughable and easily disproved. Just Google it.Your denial of history, and accepted history at that, is just insane. It's funny how the religious have to resort to the most obvious lies to make their case. But Look up the information yourself
Haussofluv 3 days ago
@Haussofluv - I also don't doubt that the Akkadians had Great Deluge accounts. Nearly ALL cultures DO. Why? Because there was once a great, GLOBAL Deluge, just as is described in Genesis. That doesn't mean that Christianity borrowed it. Primarily since the story of the Great Flood is technically part of Judaism (being that it is in the Old Testament, Jewish Tanakh). So, sorry, no lies here. Lies on your side? Definitely. But not here.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD No, there are NOT worldwide accounts of a flood happening around the same time. The biblical flood account is a very close copy to the Gilgamesh epic. The details are just too similar for coincidence. And the Sumerian epic was dated and written long before any works of the Bible were. This is ALL historically verifiable facts. Even more certain than what we have for the life of Jesus.Your claims to the contrary continue to show how lame even your lies are. You can't even sound believable
Haussofluv 3 days ago
The 'afterlife' is a man made creation that promises justice & fairness to the masses, since most people believe that they haven't gotten a fair shake. Never mind that there's nothing stopping them from getting that fair shake in real life, & that they should embrace their one & only life to live it to the best of their ability. The afterlife promises them things they didn't get, yet felt they deserve on earth. It's a death cult really & it squanders those poor fools lives to subjugation.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
So, 1. You believe in an origin of the universe that has no God. That means you believe it on faith. What makes you right? 2. You presume and state as fact that there is no afterlife. How do you know? You are making a presumptive statement and claiming it as fact, when you cannot know. Again, that means you believe it on faith. 3. That question has been answered in Scripture. Don't you already know or are you oblivious to the truths of Scripture.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
You also have a misunderstanding of God. God is not ALL-loving. He is immensely loving and His love is expressed through His Son, Jesus Christ. And let us hope that you live this life, getting all the enjoyment you can from it. Because believing that God and judgment are imaginary doesn't mean that they are imaginary. If they are real - and they are - you are being extremely and arrogantly stupid. But you are entitled to your stupidity. 4. Don't worry, your "situation" is coming.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD
"You also have a misunderstanding of God."
So do you. You have to prove any gods exist before you go around telling people what he is like.
"believing that God and judgment are imaginary doesn't mean that they are imaginary."
Believing they are real doesn't mean they are real, either.
FourDeuce01 5 days ago
@FourDeuce01 No, I don't actually have to prove God exists. He already did that. That you are too stupid, arrogant and prideful to accept the proof is on you.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD If there is a god out there, the chances it being the Christian one are pretty slim.
1AndrewTheWolf 5 days ago
@1AndrewTheWolf - Your response is, actually, not true. From various points of analysis, Judeo-Christianity is the only one that could be true. If you were to actually bother to conduct such an analysis yourself, you might come to realize why that is true. It is doubtful, though, that you will.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Please give me point by point factual & actual unrefutable proof of what you contend to be 'truth'.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - I will ask you as I have asked others. What proof would be sufficient? The truth is that I don't have to present you with proof. God has already done that. You have rejected it, most likely, because you are doing something Scripture condemns, you don't want to stop and you don't want to be told that what you are doing is wrong.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@1AndrewTheWolf One in a million actually. It's a better bet to believe in no gOD than any gOD if you like pie charts and math.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - Odd that you think your eternity is nothing more than a bet. Stranger still that you would bet on there being no god than there being a God.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Please explain how gOD proved his existence & which gOD do you refer? Your chance of actually believing in the correct gOD are one in a million.
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@JWC3RD
"your "situation" is coming."
Your situation is already here. If you believe in fairy tales, then your god must have cursed you with total stupidity.
FourDeuce01 5 days ago
@FourDeuce01 - Well, I don't believe in fairy tales, other than as literature. I do believe in God because His Word is not a fairy tale. Is that your best argument?
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Prove it. I'm easy & happy to jump on the bandwagon. How about praying my brothers legs back on. You know, the ones that got blown off by a vbied in Iraq?
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - Doubtful that you are easy and happy to jump on the Christian "bandwagon". I could pray for your brother's legs to be restored, but what if God has a ministry in store for him through that affliction? Joni Erickson-Tada was rendered a quadriplegic in a diving accident. Her ministry is amazing and would not be what it was, had the accident not happened. God does not promise us - in this fallen world - immunity from tragedy. He promises us comfort in our grief....
JWC3RD 5 days ago
and He offers us eternal life. One thing I can tell you is that, if your brother comes to faith in Christ, the day will come when he will be restored in whole. However, since you don't seem interested in praying for your own brother, what kind of impact are you having on him, through your unbelief? Has your atheism restored his legs? The thing is, were God to restore his legs, you would come up with some rationale to still reject God.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Do you believe in unicorns?
1AndrewTheWolf 5 days ago
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JWC3RD 5 days ago
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@1AndrewTheWolf I don't dismiss the possibility that such an animal existed at some time. Considering that, scientifically speaking, the current number of species is estimated to be around 50,000,000 and the number of those cataloged is less than 10 million AND considering that the current estimate of species is, scientifically speaking, only representative of about 4% of all the life that has EVER existed on the Earth, why would you hold to an absolute belief that they never existed?
JWC3RD 5 days ago
big bang? A quantum fluctuation, a temporary change in the energy of a system which does not violate conservation of energy. We've known this for some time. And it makes sense, and is in fact quite elegant. But for some reason, people don't want to learn about quantum mechanics.
moldrad 5 days ago
@moldrad - but the quantum fluctuations that science claims exist, exist IN SPACE. Prior to the Big Bang, there was NO SPACE. Space is created by the expansion and did not, except in an UNPROVABLE THEORY, pre-exist the Big Bang or the singularity that became the Universe. So where did these quantum fluctuations exist? Science is saying that NOTHING existed, and now even say that not even the singularity existed. If there were "quantum fluctuations" where did they come from?
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD Okay, throwing that logic back to you...
Where did gOD come from?
Or should I say gODs come from, there are so very many...
SippinonMickeys 5 days ago
@SippinonMickeys - God is the UNCAUSED, First Cause. The same criteria would be required of you in your secular belief. The thing is, it actually (at least, to me) makes far more logical, analytical and rational sense to see that the Uncaused First Cause would have to be that which possessed sentience, intelligence and self-awareness. This is true because a non-intelligent uncaused first cause, if that were all there was, could not influence or manifest anything outside itself.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
On the other hand, a sentient, intelligent, self-aware Uncaused First Cause COULD.
JWC3RD 5 days ago
@JWC3RD watch "'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009 " on youtube Krause explains it much better than I could. IMVHO no theory is un provable forever. DNA research has done much to prove evolution that Darwin couldn't. Quantum theory was just mathematics until someone used it to build the computer you're writing on.
moldrad 5 days ago
@moldrad - Sorry, DNA doesn't actually prove evolution. And Quantum theory is a rather large spectrum of physics, some of which delves into the actual observation of sub-atomic phenomena and application of those observations and some that delves strictly into the realm of hypothetical possibility without being necessarily probable or actual. And, yes, Big Bang cosmology is not something anyone, after the fact, will ever be able to prove.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
Considering the level of proof you and others, like you, require, it could never be proven. For us, the Big Bang is a one-time event, no repeats, no eyewitnesses (from your perspective) and nothing but speculation as to what existed before (if anything) and how that "what" expanded into our Universe. Therefore, you SHOULD be willing to accept the possibility of an infinitely powerful intelligence creating the Universe....and, yet, you don't.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD bottom line - Is it not better to keep asking questions and exploring the possibilities then say "god did it" and walk away?
moldrad 4 days ago
@moldrad - I have no problem with you asking questions. I encourage you to continue to ask questions. I know that God "did it", but I still want to find out as much about what He did and how He did it as I can. And the thing about asking questions. Are you asking the right questions and are you getting the right answers? If you are not sincere in your search for truth, you will never find it. All you will find (accept) is that which fits your presuppositions.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD which god? There have been so many. Why not a goddess? Aren't females more prone to creating living or at least long running functioning systems? I'd like to say I have no preconceived notices but a long busy life has embedded more than I'm aware of. Thankfully the internet has exposed me to alternate viewpoints I never came across before. I have studied all major and many minor faiths I've come across and only 2 that made sense to me.
moldrad 3 days ago
@moldrad I meant NOTIONS not notices. It's very late/early here
moldrad 3 days ago
3 there have been thousands of gods invented by man over the ages - do you have to believe in ALL of them?
4 Deal with it
You seem quite intelligent - I think that's really sexy
RealiveProds 5 days ago
@RealiveProds - Nope, just the real God, the One, True God. And, yes, there are ways you can tell that He is the One, True God.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD I would really like to know how you "know" you have experienced the one true god (out of nearly 10 thousand that have been invented). Please enlighten me.
RealiveProds 4 days ago
1 "Can something be created out of nothing" - Yes! Look up quantum fluctuations on wikipedia.
2 "Justice and fairness" - human invention. Look up the parasitic wasp.
RealiveProds 5 days ago
@RealiveProds - So where did the "quantum fluctuations" come from? Where did they exist, since "space' is the result of the expanding singularity of energy? And try to understand, if it were possible for "quantum fluctuations" to exist prior to the existence of the singularity of energy (which became the Universe), then it is not true that there was "absolute nothing". "Quantum fluctuations" is something. It would also have to have a cause - being that there is no intelligence behind them.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
And, for those "quantum fluctuations" to generate any kind of particles, virtual or otherwise, they cannot be generated from true nothingness. The fleeting particles might (because of their brevity) not violate Conservation of energy, but certainly real particles that have (according to the secular perspective) existed for billions of years and formed the galaxies, stars and planets, most certainly WOULD be violating the Laws of Conservation of Energy.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
In fact, the whole point of virtual particles being presumed to come from nothing is only allowable under those principles because they are very brief in their virtual existence.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD Not always.
RealiveProds 4 days ago
@RealiveProds - Pretty much, YES always. Otherwise, it VIOLATES the Law of Conservation of Energy - you know that crucial one where matter/energy can neither be created out of nothing or destroyed, it can only change its existing state.
JWC3RD 3 days ago
@JWC3RD The law of conservation of energy fall apart at the quantum level because time is non-linear. Energy is borrowed from the future, then paid back almost immediately, but if this happens in the presence of the event horizon of a black hole, then this prevents the particle and anti-particle from annihilating each other. The black hole therefore creates matter.
RealiveProds 4 days ago
@RealiveProds - The law of conservation of energy, according to the concepts relating to quantum fluctuations only "fall apart" BRIEFLY and then disappear (but this is actually SPECULATION). What you say next I find even more amusing. Energy is borrowed from the future? Again, prove it. By the way, matter being created by quantum fluctuations occurring at the event horizon of a black hole? You are aware that prior to and just shortly after the Big Bang, black holes did not exist, right?
JWC3RD 4 days ago
You DO realize that black holes are the result of massive stars collapsing in upon themselves, right? Stars that, according to your perspective, formed after the energy from the Big Bang converted into the first particles and then coalesced into great masses of gases until they finally "ignited" into radiant stars. By the way, you have observed matter being created at the event horizon of a black hole? When did you do that?
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD Quantum fluctions exist in space, they don't "come from" anywhere, they are a property of space. And you are right, space is not complete nothingness, it has properties. Space exists outside of the universe (so does not require a universe for it to exist), but time on the other hand requires matter and/or energy (I think - to too sure on the properties of time) Quantum fluctuations are observable and measureable in the large particle accelerators.
RealiveProds 4 days ago
@RealiveProds - Your answer raises a problem with the idea that quantum fluctuations spawned the energy that expanded into the Universe. IF quantum fluctuations exist in space, then prior to the Big Bang, prior to the point where physicists (like Hawking) say NOTHING existed, not even the singularity of super-hot, super-condensed energy, THERE WAS NO SPACE. Space didn't exist. Space is the product OF THE EXPANSION. So, again, where were these pre-Big Bang quantum fluctuations residing?
JWC3RD 4 days ago
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JWC3RD 4 days ago
And I have no doubt that quantum fluctuations have, perhaps, been observed in particle accelerators. The problem is, those exist now. Stars exist now, but they didn't exist prior to the Big Bang. And, if quantum fluctuations require space in which to reside, then prior to the Big Bang, they did not exist either because the requisite space in which they function did NOT exist. There was NOTHING. Time did not exist. Space and all its properties did NOT exist.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
The thing that I find most amusing about you and others who like to post about the speculations of quantum theory is that you are so willing to accept as probable fact something that you can NEVER prove. But you, and other atheists, dismiss the notion of God without blinking. And more amazing still, you don't even see your own hypocrisy.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD I am a design engineer. I make my living by understanding how things really work, knowing the laws of physics so that I can design things that work first time - thereby proving my hypothesis was correct. The first time I see ANY evidence for ANY god I will be the first to admit I was wrong - although which god to credit I can't imagine. Trouble is, some idiots in this world see something like a frozen waterfall, and immediately see a god behind it.
RealiveProds 3 days ago
@RealiveProds - Your designs require that you know the laws of Quantum physics or subatomic structure? However, as a design engineer, I am curious why it is that you can look at the mechanisms within living cells and argue that those mechanisms just happened by chance? Considering the one important reason: could any of your designs come into existence by random, natural processes? If so, then why are you wasting time and charging us money for stuff that can spontaneously generate itself?
JWC3RD 3 days ago
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@JWC3RD - or more precisely, where were the quantum fluctations fluctuating? Not in space as it didn't exist yet. And space exists OUTSIDE the Universe? Prove it. Your statement is presumptive SPECULATION. Did you mean that other dimensions exist outside our Universe? While I would tend to accept that notion (considering that Scripture speaks of levels of "heaven"), you, Mr. Show me the evidence accept that for what reason? Can you prove those dimensions actually exist? If yes, then do so.
JWC3RD 4 days ago
@JWC3RD These ideas come from some very deep mathematics, they are not simply deamed up on the spot like ALL religious dogma. And the mathematics, although not yet perfect, do make reliable predictions that are OBSERVABLE. If you truly want to know some real answers, then you must buy some books and do some reading - it's not something that can be explained in a few hundered words.
RealiveProds 3 days ago
@JWC3RD I think you are reading some old physics books. This stuff is pretty tenuous as some of it is based on conjecture, and has changed in the last couple of years. The latest information I heard was from a Lawrence Krauss lecture a few months ago, and a documentary that Brian Greene did just before that. I think the general idea is that space-time does exist before the big bang - and Hawking does support this - see Brane or M Theory.
RealiveProds 3 days ago