Dead Ideas Kill Live People - The Freedomain Radio Sunday Call in Show, December 18, 2011

[Morgantritherion]

Oh... I wish this conversation had taken place when I was a manager at Wendy's.

[TimothyADonaghue]

Best introduction to a show ever made. LOL!!!!!!!!!

[Mousology]

24:45 Useful to the people whose money you have taken? Seriously if you are to become a doctor YOU or your families pay for the four years of college is it not true? I don't know about you but I learned to read and wright at home from my parents & even if you didn't most things you learn in grade school and high school is what ever supports the system, or doesn't matter when you get out into the real world. Most of what I do use I learned at home, and I went to public school!

[lolofdoom]

OMFG THE SECOND CALLER WHAT WUT WHA WHY?

[rusedorange]

1:15 in, Stef BE CAREFUL! You almost broke your neck trying to make the Government displaced other potential benefactors because "WE GOT IT" analogy, and the moron who lived through it all has the insipid timidity to say: "Good point!" Utterly sickening. Your listeners are homoerotic sheep Molyneaux... Freedomain reminds me of a gay bar where the dykes congratulate each other on their masculinity... This is gross! EEEWWWW.. Let me outta here!

[NativeNewMexican]

@rusedorange

Homoerotic sheep? What a great debater. Your skill and elocution demolish the arguments made. How can you exist in a world that is so inferior to you?

[NativeNewMexican]

@rusedorange Guess you realized I was being sarcastic and removed your nonsensical reply.

If you had any clue what Stef was talking about, you wouldn't have written, "Stephan is in the business of protecting capital's interests, not original, there are lots on that bandwagon," in your since removed comment.

Stef is in the business of promoting freedom and non-violence, yet you somehow think he's a corporatist shill. Do a little research.

[rusedorange]

@NativeNewMexican "Guess you realized I was being sarcastic and removed your nonsensical reply." You'd be wrong about that actually. I realized that I had mistaken your reply for one I got on another FDR video, hence it may seem nonsensical.

The attacks against the last vestiges of unionization, ridiculous when viewed in the light of the decline of labor rights and wages/benefits in spite of increased productivity and PROFITABILITY; the ludicrous, stubborn .. (whoops cont).

[rusedorange]

@Native ..ridiculous attempts to shift blame for the 2008 financial crisis away from capital interests- the speculators, the 0.1%, and onto the GOVERNMENT (which no true, informed economists support BTW), for not regulating effectively enough or meddling too much; the echoing of the Right-Wing theme that gov't cannot do ANYTHING, that it's utterly inept (Rush Limbaugh 101); the mimicing of the Grover Norquist "drown gov't in the bathtub" strategy; the ...cont..

[rusedorange]

@Native ...portrayal of Baby Boomers as spoiled, weak, and childish because they want a modicum of financial security in retirement.... well I could sure go on and on Native the examples are abundant. Taken in their totality the themes being espoused by Molyneaux, in spite of the nonaggression lip service, are beneficial to capital interests; my experience is that is never a coincidence, generally people are well paid for that sort of propagandizing. No exception here.

[NativeNewMexican]

@rusedorange

So, let's see. 1. Stef supports collective bargaining (aka Unions). He doesn't, however, support their use of violence to achieve their ends which happens in almost every case.

2. If you don't think that the Government was the primary cause of the economic collapse, you haven't done any legitimate research. They control the interest rate and the money supply, they use taxes and regulations to create artificial profits.

Boomers are thieves, their retirement is blood money.

[rusedorange]

@NativeNewMexican I guess you could say Gov't caused the crisis by not regulating the industry tightly enough but that would be a secondary cause.... Unions always violent eh? Wow, you not so smart...

[NativeNewMexican]

@rusedorange

No, gov't caused the crisis by preventing:

1. competition through political favor

2. free choice for the customer through regulations

3. appropriate regulations by monopolizing the regulatory process

4. markets from properly evaluating the risks with artificial fiscal policy

5. requiring businesses to pay to play.

I didn't say always, you'll notice, the term, "ALMOST EVERY" in my post.

I would be happy to point to acts of violence committed by any union you cite.

[NativeNewMexican]

@NativeNewMexican

edit #5 to read:

5. businesses from being able to compete without paying to play.

[MrOperettalover]

@Joe11Blue, that's fair enough. You obviously do not respect the premises. You object he owns his body. Thus, you cannot own yours. Without common ground discussion is impossible. It's war. Now the game is, who kills whom first.

The fact that you actually pretend discussion is possible despite the fact you're coming to the negotiation table without any commitment makes you a contradictory crackpot. Is this your business here, convincing people how stupid you are?

[DoctorCapitalist]

I have no idea what this show is about. Chinese punk rockers? What?

[dopejoel]

It's extremely difficult to emotionally process the fact that, if i was truly honest with my father about how ridiculous i think his adherence to a 2000 year old death cult that's centered on a masochistic god who couldn't think of a better way to forgive humanity for being sinful than having himself be tortured and executed is, at the end of the day he would choose these psychotic illusions before me. A rare type of guy who just wants to learn how to truly be good and lovable in this world.

[snaz27]

Universally preferable behaviour is something that I'll certainly use more often and consciously. You are awesome at explaining things, even if I disagree sometimes! lol

[snaz27]

Wait Wait Wait... syef you seem to totally separate the lovely free market flowers and sunshine with capitalism with all it's greed and corruption etc... Why is that?

Now I want freedom as much if not more than the next man, but capitalism (within a free market or not) has all the trademarks of evolution. It is win lose! Normally the ones winning are the tiny minority!

I'm not sure if you don't see it or just don't want to.

[NativeNewMexican]

@snaz27

Please learn how capitalism works. It is by its nature not win-lose. It's win-win. If you don't believe you'll end up better off after a trade, you don't make the trade. Same goes for them. Both parties achieve "better" results, aka Win Win.

If you're referring to private property, I recommend you listen to one of the Sunday shows a couple months back where I specifically hammered Stef on property rights and he had no problem whatsoever clearing up the issue.

[snaz27]

Stef you flogged that pointless topic to death! If it's so pointless why spend the time to discuss it for so long! Even the poor guy had enough by the end! lol.

[snaz27]

We celebrated christmas early this year. We did it sunday just gone... Well why not? lol

It's actually strange hearing people still mention christmas, I'm like but that's gone! oh wait....

[weablez]

@ehpi When all of your friends, family and colleagues around you are celebrating, it's difficult to resist. Even if you want to resist, many choose not to just to prevent their friends and family from thinking of them as a "grinch." The only option that remains is to attempt to convince them all to resist with you, and that's nearly impossible.

[ehpl]

dead ideas kill live people I wonder why atheists and philosophers celebrate a Christian holiday that’s become a melting pot of excess, greed and forces families together often breaking already strained relationships.

[Draginvry2]

Movie idea:

A great philosopher sets up a talk show that has the potential to change the world. During the second act of the movie, this charismatic and intellectual philosopher decides that his show should focus solely on the postmodern critique of the failing acceptance of startup punk bands by mainstream society. Also, at the climax of the movie, this great philosopher will discuss the legitimacy of dubstep as a musical genre.

[modelmark]

Animals also generalize observations into principles, all brains do. This is the only reason to have a brain, so a few observation allow you to deduce a principle, with which you can predict your environment to better manipulate it.

When my cat is chased by a dog, she is afraid of another dog as well.She generalized the concept dog,even though they are slightly different dogs.The fact that she does not generalize a moon and a rock,is a matter of degree.humans had problems with moon/rock as well

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark You've made claims that don't follow from anything. Brains are computers, they can generalize observations into principles, and they can have other functions. As long as they have a function they need not have that ability. Brains also, for example, tell your eyes which direction to look. No principle involved in that. Certainly not an observed one.

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves What is my baseless claim?

Do you matter and energy behave according to principles, called the laws of physics? Do you believe a brain is made of matter? Do you agree it follows that the brain follows the same principles?

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark Either you a) you mispoke in your first post and you don't understand what was said in the video (no offense but your english is not good enough for it), or b) you just changed the meaning of your first post. I'll just ask you to clairify. What is the only reason to have a brain?

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves once again: what is my baseless claim?

Otherwise I will assume the default situation that if someone approaches you with the statement you are making a baseless claim, that he is making a baseless claim.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark Your baseless claim is "The only reason to have a brain is to be able to deduce principles".

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves OK, I stand by that. Principles as rules of the behavior of matter and energy that are universal. Rules that are valid today by observation and are expected to be valid tomorrow in order to manipulate nature tomorrow for survival. E.g. if I turn my eyeballs I see another part of reality, that is a useful principle tomorrow as well and will help me survive.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark The part I have a problem with is "deduce", which you haven't argued for. "The only reason to have a brain is to deduce principles" is equivilant to "brains are never used for anything other than deducing principles" (contraposition). Which requires only one counter-example to be falsified, and here is one: a baby deer can walk upon birth, through the use of it's brain, without having deduced anything. Not sure where you are confused.

[NativeNewMexican]

@SlaveryEvolves

It's apparent to me that it was a linguistic error. I take his meaning is solely that the purpose of the cluster of cells that evolved into a brain is to interpret data and decide on actions. Said that way, it appears to be valid.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@NativeNewMexican Thanks. Yea I thought it was linguistic since he seemingly changed his proposition. I still don't think it's valid however. At least not with certain definitions of "decide". For example, you use your brain to calculate 24X8, not a decision or intepretation. You use your brain to "see" colors (instead of black and white).  Your brain tells your heart to beat. Your brain stores memory. etc. Pretty sure primitive brains can't even decide actions or interpret data.

[NativeNewMexican]

@SlaveryEvolves

Yes, you "decide" that 192 is the correct calculation and it most definitely is an interpretation of the function f(x,y)=do x + x counting from 1 to y. Your brain interprets light waves as colors. Your brain doesn't tell your heart to beat per se, that's the cerebellum, not really what we're talking about. Your brain stores interpretations of events (memories) and primitive brains are doing exactly that, interpreting stimuli and acting upon it.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@NativeNewMexican I'm not a brain expert, but in any case. Storing interpretations of observed events is not interpreting nor observing (it's storing). Your brain does interpret light waves as colors, but it also senses and translates them into information that you, only then, interperut. And then there are emotions.

[NativeNewMexican]

@SlaveryEvolves

Truly, memory storage itself is not interpreting data, the translation of the input from the senses is a synonym for interpretation, it's not a conceptual interpretation, it's a mechanical interpretation. Emotions are also interpretations and responses. Regardless, you've got one there (memory) that is definitely not a function of interpretation or deciding. I can't think of any others, and computers are the same. They interpret, store, and process data.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@NativeNewMexican Well if you are going to stretch interprut to include mechanical. I guess I can let that slide to include emotions. Still a lot more I'm not convinced of, but even if you could have convinced me of every example I could have come up with, still seems one would require omniscience to say "all brains throughout history have been able to make decisions."

.

Moreover, it's from 1 to y-1 ;)

.

Thanks for being honest.

[NativeNewMexican]

@SlaveryEvolves

I think if we both use the same meaning for the term interpret, we both have the same understanding of what the function of the brain is. :-)

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves almost forgot, good point. Some principles of nature are indeed hard wired into the brain of a new born before any observations have reached it, although you could argue sensory observations start before birth.

I'd claim though that these build in code is the result of the observations of previous generations of deer. Without the pedigree of this baby deer observing gravity, the baby deer would not have had this hard wired into it's brain. It all evolved from previous experience

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark U are right that it evolved and might be called an inherited principle (for some examples). However, to say that anything inherited was put there by any experience is to misunderstand/ignore/forget natural selection. Human ancestors who could aim better were selected. Some skill is learned, but the ABILITY to become skillful wasn't due to experience or observations of the ancestors, just the survival benifit it happened to have in the ancestor's population and envoronment.

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves These were all experiences with the laws of nature or Principia as Newton called it, that are universal. Experience with these principia today can be used tomorrow, because natures principles are constant in time. Experience over here can be used over there because they are constant in place as well. The ability to be a better hunter, was the experience with better molecular way to build muscle and bone structures,if valid today will work tomorrow.no evolution without these princ

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark It's still not quite how it works. The deer with the accidently more accurate model of gravity survives. The key thing is "accidently", the gene mutation that gives a better model mutates without any influence from the parent's experience. Indeed there should be about as many offspring with an upgraded model, closer to principia, as offspinrg with a downgraded model, in a given generation.

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves sure, agree, they all experience the laws of nature. It's just that the downgraded model has worse experience than the upgraded one.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@modelmark I just think experience is the wrong word. It seems to imply consciousness. It is also your contention that all brains have consciousness? These sorts upgrades by selection have been done with computer simulation, which means they don't necessarily imply consciousness. But if you don't mean to imply consciousness when you use experience then I think we are in agreement.

[modelmark]

@SlaveryEvolves consciousness is a tricky concept to define. I would define experience indeed wider, more like: interaction with the environment. So I think we indeed agree if you take that difference in definition into account.

[twostrongtoo]

anyone asking stef to talk about Serge Monast,,,

[Joe11Blue]

@kropotkinbeard1 You do not own your body, therefore you do not own the right to your work, nor the rights to your thoughts, that is your position obviously, so therefore I will simply rape you in the ass, and take all of your goods with me, because in reality they are not yours. You were just holding them until someone decided to come and take them, like me.. I'm not a Libertarian you jackass. I do not have any issues with abusing the hell out of you for giving up your rights.

[ehpl]

I’m surprised a philosopher atheist would be celebrating the 25th of December.

[Shezmu]

@ehpl - Just because your an atheist doesn't mean you don't like gettin free stuff.

[ehpl]

@Shezmu Yeah but you can be kind and give and receive anytime you like why follow a Christian celebration that’s sold to you from every aspect of the culture? – I mean if Ramadan was aggressively sold and had a similar sales agent like santa would we just follow this too?

[Shezmu]

@ehpl - To give a serious answer, Christmas is so far from it's religious roots that calling the holiday religious is almost false advertisement, but that's neither here nor there. While I do admit that family/companionship is something you can celebrate year long, christmas does have the advantage of days off school/work and benefits. would I would celebrate 10+ Christmases a year? I'd let my interest in seeing people and my wallet decide that myself.

[DjZephy]

The joke at 45:35 was hilarious!!

[BobGeorgeAU]

Sounds like the first thing that guy who made his company public bought with the money is weed.

[hob976]

One caller starts with: "...I would like some help in solving some apparent contradictions in my life..."

.

A lot of wisdom there... well said.

[trishgoo]

@ 1;07;40 the caller is making farting noises? Did I just hear that?

[Batta0909]

YAY full sunday show I've been missing these!!!!!!

[mattsamudio]

I think the key to "protecting your wealth" is to buy tangible things that are useful and meaningful to you, and not of a "speculative" nature (i.e. bought in hopes of selling later at higher value). If you have dreams of being a carpenter, set yourself up with a great set of carpenter's tools. The more productive, and the more "dear" to you personally, the better. Real estate that you can plan to actually use for something works well, as can vehicles, etc...

[Darkwizzrobe]

Andre Marrou 2012

[NativeNewMexican]

@stefbot Stefan, The dark moth, light moth thing was debunked, the moths were planted by the researchers and data manufactured. We definitely have examples of evolution, but that one shouldn't be used in your discussions.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@NativeNewMexican As long as he makes it hypothetical "if dark moths are harder to see by birds to the extent that they get eaten less, then" then it's fine.

[NativeNewMexican]

@SlaveryEvolves

The experiment he is citing has significant doubt associated with it. Why use it when other examples readily exist? The perception of illegitimacy creates illegitimacy.

[spystyle]

How to go public ? I've heard of this, you get your strawman's bond ?

[SanguineBullet667]

china is a great place if you want to save money

[ariuszarim]

Animals that can be observed to utilize some kind of property rights, among similar animals: Wolves (use scents to alert other wolves of ownership claims), cats (use scents to alert other cats to ownership claims), spiders (don't destroy each others webs). NAP: The king cobra do not each other. They have an elaborate, non-violent ritual for settling disputes. you'd be surprised how well the NAP and property rights do in the natural world.

[UrbyKris]

I don't concern myself with the poor... am I a "sociopath"? If I am, then so be it...

[SlaveryEvolves]

@UrbyKris I don't want to attack your character, just curious. If you saw a 6 year old homeless girl and knew (somehow) that she'd die in a short time without help you wouldn't even hope someone else helped her? You wouldn't find a way to take care of her even if you had 80 billion dollars? If so, yea you are a sociopath.

[UrbyKris]

@SlaveryEvolves I would help her if I could... I just generally don't think about the plight of poor people and they aren't my first consideration in issues. In my experience the self righteous people who can only talk about that (I'm not talking about you) are the biggest monsters (for a lack of a better word at the moment)

[MrDemonshalo]

man the superman thing killed me!

[rodrigodet]

OMG I want to see that Superman movie

[UrbyKris]

is stef defending the social contract a bit here?

[ragnarthelibrarian]

I recall being young(er) and wanting to be a philosopher. I was in my early 20's I think. I guess I still have that ambition, but for some reason I dont find the time or for a better word, the way, to explore the mind. Listening to sir stefbot I realize just how big the difference between simply letting your mind wander and actually philosophize by the true meaning of the word.

[crimsonsamuraiftw]

@ragnarthelibrarian It's not really that hard, especially with the gift that is the internet. Even being a couch philosopher is better than denying the time for critical thought altogether.

[ragnarthelibrarian]

@crimsonsamuraiftw I got timer for critical thought, its just that I dont seem to have the ability to think big as I did when I was younger. Hard to explain.

[Beesnchickens]

"cities tend to expand"

Given that most people live within a city and cities are costly to live in, I would expect cities to shrink in size.

[crimsonsamuraiftw]

@Beesnchickens They do both, much like the Standard Model of the Universe; it all depends on which way the motion of attraction (energy) is heading and where you are dependent of the relative time associated with that motion flux.

[SlaveryEvolves]

@Beesnchickens The population grows, the city has to grow at at least the same rate. Furthermore, the wealth of the population increases usually at least as fast as the cost.

[Beesnchickens]

What would I do with my IPO cash?

1. Initiate massive fruit tree propagation program, post haste

2. Low cost greenhouse production.

3. John Deere combine

4. Seed cleaner/dryer

5. Build a 1000 sq. foot, profoundly energy efficient solar powered home

6. Buy silver with the rest

[Hashishin13]

The conservatives in Canada are still willing to wage and expand the drug war, the liberals pay lip service to reform but just end up continuing it.

[TomasKristiansen]

Christmas, sorry folks, i`m done with the fake hollydays.

[TheDondonx]

To the fella asking about the chinese punk bands: humans are rational creatures, but they are not ONLY rational creatures. They are spiritual as well.

[kropotkinbeard1]

....and distribute them to the poor. Now THAT would be a Santa I could appreciate. A good, moral Santa. He could also teach those parasite families who have taken from the system that it IS their duty to put back into the system. No system, no house for them to have a chimney for him to descend. He could teach them that giving is better than receiving, and that whining about not being "compelled to" was immature and selfish. In other words, he could teach them about the real meaning of Christmas

[kropotkinbeard1]

Actually, Santa is much more of a capitalist pig using the elves as wage slaves, and, yes, there really IS such thing. Trying to prevent wage slavery used to be the platform of the Republican Party. The elves should either just boot Santa's fat ass of of his authoritarian role, and run the factory themselves. After all, as usual, they don't need Santa. He needs them. But then again they could allow him to stay at a reduced wage, enter the houses of the exploiters, take their presents...

[Joe11Blue]

@kropotkinbeard1 So wait, they don't need him, because they can just participate in theft to steal his tools and machines that manufacture the toys parts for them to assemble? Sounds more like you care less about the workers, and more about abdicating mass theft for your own benefit. Ethically and Morally depraved, no wonder you morons can never do anything right.

[kropotkinbeard1]

@Joe11Blue Haha...You guys and your paranoia of "theft". You sound like a bunch of kindergartners whining because someone took a toy that wasn't yours anyway. Firstly, the elves made the tools because Santa is inept, as is usually the case. Secondly, given that they are using the tools, which other elves probably made anyway, and put their labor power into both manufacturing of the tools as well as what they're making with it, Santa just doesn't count for much. But the elves always get a good...

[kropotkinbeard1]

@Joe11Blue ...laugh when Santa starts up with his "I'm a job creator" shtick. They sort of feel sorry for him when he does this as it's a sign of his own insecurity and weakness. This is just about the only reason they don't sent him hiking. The elves are quite well aware that they need Santa about as much as they need shorter legs. And if the elves are taking what was theirs in the first place, it's not theft. Theft is someone claiming "property" for themselves as if they've earned it, or that

[kropotkinbeard1]

@Joe11Blue ...was natural. It's not natural in any way, shape, or form. Sorry, but the only morally depraved folks I see are the ones who think they actually own things when they don't, and then immorally try and pretend they do. Right Libertarians are some of the biggest morons on the planet. This is even according to many ex-Libertarians as well as critics within their own ranks. Sorry, but John Locke is with the elves on this one. I'll bet you can't go a comment without saying theft or coerce

[snerka]

@kropotkinbeard1 When was this a platform of the republican party or did you just hear that from Chomsky on youtube?

[kropotkinbeard1]

@snerka It doesn't matter where I heard it. It matters if it's accurate. And given that Chomsky very rarely makes mistakes, or at least none caught by his drooling detractors who know nothing about his work, but pretend to, yeah, it's a safe bet it's accurate. But rather than setting yourself up to be embarrassed, it would be better to first, see if he actually said this, then prove that's wrong, then perhaps try and make an argument. You have a long way to go before step 1, boy.

[kropotkinbeard1]

@snerka You can find the data in any number of places. Even wiki! Here, I7ll do a 5 second search. 'Abraham Lincoln on Freedom, Wage labour and Slavery' northernsong.wordpressDOTcom/2­010/08/29/abraham-lincoln-on-f­reedom-wage-labour-and-slavery­/

[celtmarine]

That is the best into to any YouTube vid I have ever heard!

[fndngnvrlnd]

ha ha ha you are so funny!!

[sniped101]

but what about newt gengrich?

[KnownSQASHED]

You have indeed earned my respect, sir. I am in the process of making it through your videos and podcasts, and am trying to apply this more rational method of thought to my life. I am also considering gifting your books to my older sister (who ironically works in the US Political system). I would be interested to hear which of your books comes to mind?

Keep up the good work!

[natritious1]

Punk Rockers don't get credibility even here in Chicago, IL USA. This kid sounds like he's been brainwashed by the collective

[AUgustusDeLaVega]

ASK PETER SCHIFF

[libertopian]

It's 6.30am, I've been up all night. Seems like a good opportunity to listen to some molyneux.

[triforcelink]

To the guy with the extra cash: buy the cashflow 101 game by robert kiyosaki

[natritious1]

@triforcelink I think I may check it out if I can get it for a good price on eBay. I've read less than flattering reviews, but I think it would be good to atleast learn some basic accounting skills. Have you tried it? Is it worth it?

[libertopian]

@natritious1 Rich Dad Poor Dad is a great book...

[triforcelink]

@natritious1 Totally worth it.. If you're seriously interested learning about money that is. I would also suggest going away for a couple of months to a place unfamiliar to you where you can spend some time to get to know yourself more. I randomly went to Shanghai China in 08 for two and a half months, and it totally changed my outlook on life. I could not be happier with that decision.

[siftyfour]

2 hours of stefan molyneux? challenge accepted.

[Xtrainious]

the dance of people that have food. hahahahah.

[natritious1]

@Xtrainious ITS MINE ITS ALLLL MINE!! Grains were originally used as currency, and horded.

[asc9nd]

Merry Christmass. I value your work so very much Stef. I have made my first donation to you and will make more. I was in a bit of a financial runt for a bit but I am doing fantastic now. I love you and wish you and your family a wonderfull christmass and a wonderfull 2012 year.

Best Wishes

[ShadowCrowX]

lol EPIC intro

[cgng37]

crap

[Bobisback13]

Stef you never let me down, your a profound cultivator of knowledge. Wishing you well this Christmas season!

[FreedomDroid]

Excellent video A++

[sniped101]

first