John wrote "little children, sin not. Yet, if we sin, we have an attorney nxt to the Father..." It makes sense to understand that we have the lawyer ever-present to defend us as we sin but then HOW does forgiveness happen?? "If we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive them.." You can see the ongoing process. People don't confess any more, they don't repent. They desire to sin. Demand to be able to swim in sin and still make it into the kingdom. It won't work. See 1 Cor. 6:9-10.
strong arguments. I'll be honest. I have serious questions concerning some stuff that Ellen White wrote. However, I NEVER question her concepts because they're clear. You can't use that Go-card to sin forever until Jesus returns, just because you've been baptized. People know that but don't wanna hear it. They want to sin, have their cake, and eat it too. They want to hold on to their secret sins and sneak them into Heaven with them.
Circumcision of the flesh was the initiation rite into Judaism where by the obligation to keep all the Jewish Law, the weekly Sabbath, the annual Sabbaths, meat restrictions..etc all became obligatory. See Acts 15:5 and Gal.5:3. When circumcision failed to become part of Christianity so did the Jewish Sabbaths..etc. SDA doctrine was completely condemned by the council of Jerusalem in 51 AD
sda is a cult as long as it holds on to ellen g whites teachings. read colossians 2:16. and ephesains 2:8-9. repent turn from sin and trust in Christ alone not your religous ways and tradition and the sabbath.
@mamainmancj ...sda is a cult??? are u sure? read all the article and E G. White writing as original...which denomination you belong?.....trust in Christ alone is not enough...we must follow His command and His ways....regarding Sabbath...you were so dump....read and study your bible...don't harden your heart...pray before you read your bible...God bless
@MyThailand2011 SDA is definately a cult, this video proves that. This video contains quoted statements of the words of Ms White, yet you still follow her. the Bible is a completed book, Ellen White's words are `not necessary for salvation yet she by her own words says she is the last great prophet. Stop following false doctrines. satan easily fools people. use wisdom!! trusting in Christ alone is enough because He is God. You and your church is false....point blank!!
@MyThailand2011 You call a person "dumb"??? Where are the Fruits of the Spirit? Where is the love we are suppose to show to one another? Would you mind showing me where Christ's attonement is not sufficient (not enough as you have put it) for our salvation?
@MyThailand2011 - con't - Are you saying Christ's shed blood on the cross cannot fully fulfill the requirement God requires for our sins payment and therefore we need to keep Christ's commandments, His ways and the Sabbath, to get saved? If so, would you mind giving me the book, chapter and verse to show this to me?
Our scriptures tell us Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Why? To be the intercessor/mediator for us.
Investigative judgement is a lie from the pit of hell. To make Jesus Christ's Diety a laughingstock is beyond me! He knows all things. All knowing! He knows every sin everyone has, does, and will commit till their death. To believe He needs to go to a heavenly sanctuary to keep notes on a person's life and watching their every move is so unscriptural.
If one believes his any of his good works are righeous enough to get him into Heaven, hear this! God says that if you do not keep the WHOLE law, then you are guilty of death and hell. Those who are trying to get into Heaven by Faith plus works, be prepared to tell God you had faith in Christ's attonment plus you KEPT THE WHOLE LAW!
@diesbl The Bible says If we follow the law we cannot follow christ. Galatians says that. Read your Bible. The bible says we must follow the law of Christ, the law of the spirit. You cannot follow the ten commandments and make it to heaven, impossible. You need the atoned blood of jesus to clease us from the sin of breaking the ten commandments. The idea of it is the law condemns us but the blood free's us from the penalty of breaking the commandments. You are seriously ignorant.
@MyBountykilla I said, "The Bible says If we follow the law we cannot follow christ"...meaning we can't follow the law of Moses (which includes the 10 Commandments)...THE LAW...and expect to be saved by the Law (above) AND the blood attonment...Christ's sacrifice on Calvary. Christ's sacrifice Plus keeping the Law (WORKS). Rest assured MyBountykilla, I DO read my Bible and understand God's Word. Ignorant I AM NOT!
@MyBountykilla I strongly advise you to go back and read all that I wrote on here against the SDA's beliefs and teachings.. and take you blinders off. Are you not reading correctly? I say the same as you but in more detail...are you kidding me!! Are you sure you are attacking the right person? Don't call me ignorant when you have not read what I said (completely) and every word.
@MyBountykilla Following Christ (the Law of Christ) and the Holy Spirit...Paul equated Christ’s law to God’s law. (1 Cor. 9:21) “To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.”
@MyBountykilla Paul told the Christians in Galatia to carry each other’s burdens, and in doing so they would fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal. 6:2) and we are to bare the fruits of the Spirit. All that I said and you attacked me for saying, had to do with salvation by grace without the works of the law. Following Christ's law happens AFTER we are saved!
This makes the sacrifical death and attonment of Christ on the cross...only partial. He did His part...now it's your turn to do yours. One had better take a really good and long look at themself's and see themself's and their sins as God sees them. Not as man sees them but how God sees them. To think that my good works are good enough, is myself fooling myself.
The worst is Salvation by faith and works. This is arrogance. To believe any works that one can do before he dies are righteous enough to HELP get yourself into Heaven is arrogance. This means you do not trust (have Faith) that Christ's death on the cross was good enough and complete enough to get someone into Heaven. One has to help Him out. Saved by Faith but kept saved by Works. What arrogance. If you are counting on this formula, you will not go to Heven...period!!
My sister and her husband, 7th Day Adventists, believe in "soul sleep".I asked my sister one day, if that is true then how could Elijah and Moses appear in bodily form, talking with Jesus Christ, and with Peter, James, and John as witnesses, if they were soul sleeping? Peter, James and John knew right away who they were at first sight (even though they never met them personally of course) These people do not search the scriptures to see if what they are being told/taught, is true.
My sister and her husband are 7th Day Adventists. They don't know where they will go when they die and they claim that no one can know where they will be going after death. God will make that decision at the White Throne judgement. They tell me they will go to Heaven if they are good enough. How sad!
The rich man in hell, had a body with tongue, ears, vocal cords and eyes, and their bodily senses, awareness of his whereabouts and danger, memory, connection to earthly relatives, and knowledge of others' names, etc.: Saint Paul took a trip to the 3rd Heaven and couldn't tell if he was in the body or out of the body...he knew he had a spirit body. The rich man in hell had a full immortal spirit body with all senses intact.
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Ashes that are burned up: burned out (fire gone out), doesn’t go anywhere. This fire keeps on burning and keeps on accending.
Ellen G White established the doctrine of annihilationism for the wicked the meaning of "eternal punishment". She taught that in the same manner as a roach burned up in a house fire are annihilated, the sinner would be burned up and annihilated by the lake of fire. In her twisted theology, both the roach and the sinner are "eternally punished: by being annihilated.
It's nothing more than deliberate self-deception. She & they know good and well, that's not what Christ meant!
Country Living, Daughters of God, Letters to Young Lovers, Messages to YoungPeople, Testimonies on Sexual Behavior,Adultery&Divorce, TheAdvocate, Counsels on Diet&Foods, Counsels onHealth, TheHealthFoodMinistry, TheHealthReformer, TheMinistry of Healing, LastDay Events, A Word 2d LittleFlock, ChristObject Lessons, TheStory ofJesus, ChristianLeadership, Welfare Ministry, Pastoral Ministry, etc... What was the purpose of EGW of writings all of these books? Was she alone wrote these?
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20 EGW wrote the ff. books: Acts of d Apostles Darkness Bfore Dawn Desire of Ages D' Great Controversy Patriarchs & Prophets Prophets & Kings SDA BibleCommentary Vols.1-7 D'Spirit of Prophecy vols.1-4 SelectedMessages books1-3 Testimonies 2d Chuch vols.1-9 ChristianEducation Counsels to Parents,Teachers&Students Education Fundamentals of Christian Ed. ChildGuidance
@RhedTiger Ellen G White established the doctrine of annihilationism for the wicked the meaning of "eternal punishment". She taught that in the same manner as a roach burned up in a house fire are annihilated, the sinner would be burned up and annihilated by the lake of fire. In her twisted theology, both the roach and the sinner are "eternally punished: by being annihilated.
It's nothing more than deliberate self-deception. She & they know good and well, that's not what Christ meant!
@EricSaavy Just a thought here...From what I have learned throughout scripture, I could be wrong, but from what I can see, God created mankind as a spirit with a soul, flesh and blood. Our flesh will return to dust and our soul dies but our spirit, our true nature, lives for ever and never dies. The spirt will spend eternity either in Heaven, if you are saved, or in hell, after which it will be cast into the lake of fire to burn for eternity.
@EricSaavy con't: The angels are created spirit creatures and the fallen angels will also be cast into the lake of fire to burn for ever. I have never read in scripture where the spirit ever dies or is annihilated (extinguished, wipped out, extinguished, completely)...God says those that are in the lake of fire, their stinch will come up before His throne forever.
@EricSaavy I think Ellen G White must have thought it wasn't hot enough in Hell to annihilate an unsaved person...one had to wait till they reached the Lake of Fire???
@RhedTiger All adventist quote this scripture. Ellen White is a false prophet, what more do you need to know in order to understand that your doctrine is wrong? furthermore you dont understand the meaning of the sabbath. sabbath means "rest". God was telling man to enter into His sabbath(rest) God has completed salvation through jesus. Once you accept jesus as your Lord your saying I belong to Jesus. Jesus owns Heaven and everything else, so He will save His people who chose Him.
Let's just go back 2 the word of God aye something that Ellen g white is in contradiction to therefore she is a faulse prophet. Cheers people Godbless
those who teach or believe one can lose their salvation are not saved people anyway. the truth is not in them . scripture clearly states that the Holy Spirit shall lead you into ALL truth. God is not some foolish indian giver so that once its given you can lose it. then we would all mess up and lose it and no one could stay saved
@woodowl003 Well we have freedom of choice don't we, you can actually tell God you don't want. Salvation is a process ok. We have to completley fill out the process. Satan lost his place in heaven, the children of Israel lost thier salvation. You can blaspheme the H/S and lose salvation, Jesus said that. you are speaking a lie, you are now a false prophet. It's easy to be a false prophet guy, just speak and preach contrary arguements to the word of God. Read about Blaspheming
sda is a confused cult. they are puting ellen g whites teachings above jesus' keeping the sabbath and the certain diet read colossains 2:16 and that will answer that. use are relying on works to save you read ephesains 2:8-9 for by garce are we saved through faith and not of works lest ne man should boast. jesus furfilled what use are bound to on the cross. repent and put ure trust in christs finished work on the cross alone and you will be born again and saved. the truth (jesus) will set u free
it it clear the SDA guy prob is not his belief in Ms. White but HIS SKILLS IN DEBATING WHAT HE BELIEVES. BEING ON A DEBATE TEAM MYSELF I KNOW WE ARE TAUGHT HOW TO WIN ARGUMENTS AND THE 7DAY GUY DOSE NOT HAVE THAT DEBATE SKILL B/C I WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WON THIS ARGUMENT CHILD BOO
@bigestl You would have lost the argument simply because the quoted statements of Ellen G White would've put you to shame. She contradicts the Bible easily, you can't defend that. your following a fool, Blind leaders of the blind.
Your sins are not blotted out just b/c you came to Christ. The Bible teaches us that. Even the Saints need to be forgiven there sins and Satain can trick even the very Elleate of Christ to fall. Look at Simon Peter when he denied Christ 3x even after Christ told him he was going to do that. as mush as he loved God he still fell. the bible teaches us the SPIRIT IS WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK AMEN SPEAK LORD. Even King David whom God said is a man after God Own heart Sined. & needed forgiveness
no your sins do not get blotted out just b/c you come to Christ. At one point i agreed with the guys on Ellen G white but then i saw that flaw in there belief and attack on her writings. its not about what Ms. white said they turned and started attacking and twisting the teachings that r in the Bile its self. As a Christan i say show me the scriptures were Ms. White went agents the word of God. Don't Assume im dumb enough to just except it that she did only b/c u say so.
@bigestl the bible says in duertoromy, If a prophet prophesies a thing and it doesnt come to pass, That is a false Prophet. Ellen clearly falls into that category hands down. She has made many prophecies and they did not come to pass. You think If Elijah the prophet was alive to day and He prophesied that Jesus was coming back tomorrow that it wouldnt happen? Don't be fooled. Your following proven foolish doctrines. Proven to false. God gave you a brain, use it!!
Is there a sanctuary? The sanctuary represented the dwelling place of God. Heaven is Gods dwelling place. The resting place of the most high.
Is it an exact literal replica of the one on earth? No its not. Remember, the things on earth are not the very image of things. They were symbolic, shadows.
For example. In the earthly sanctuary there was a veil which separated the holy place from the most holy place. We read in the scriptures that this veil in the earthly temple represented the flesh of Christ. This goes to show that the emblems within the temple are symbolic of another meaning and not the very literal image.
This means there is no literal veil in heaven standing between holy place and most holy. There is no table for the showbread with the bread sitting on it.
These all were symbolic. So is there a sanctuary exactly as the one on earth? No. Is there the very image of things in heaven that the earthly ones represented? yes.
It seems to me that the Sanctuary that Moses was to make was only an example of the real Sanctuary in Heaven. In Moses' day people went in the Sanctuary to have their sins forgiven. But now Jesus is our High Priest according to Hebrews. Why is He our High Priest? I read your answers but didn't quite get a yes or no. Do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
We're told in the very same chapter what those candlesticks meant, they were symbolic of the seven churches, just as the seven stars were symbolic of the seven angels. Revelation has alot of symbolic meaning. Take the lion of judah or even the lamb mentioned of in revelation. Jesus isn't really a lamb, he isn't really a lion, it's symbolism.
Just as there isn't a literal veil in heaven, it's symbolic of the flesh of Christ.
@Myhopeisinhim So you don't believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven? Even though in Revelation 11:19, it tells us the temple of God was opened and there was seen the ark, which was only found in the most holy place (Hebrews 9:3,4).
There is the dwelling place of God in heaven, which was represented by the sanctuary on earth. However, the objects represented the salvation of mankind through Jesus Christ. Even the ark of the testament spoke of the testimony of Jesus. Remember the golden jar of manna(bread of life) and the rod of Aaron that budded?
When God looked down and saw the atonement, he would come and dwell with man above the mercy seat between the cherubims.
1. Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. ....He doesn't have to come back before sins are forgiven. His return has nothing to do with sins, remember:
Heb 9:28 - so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
was told has come to pass. Also, not everyone who is to be written in the book were born at the time he died. The resurrection is not the atonement, but to return for those who were atoned for through faith. He's also not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
question 2: There are two problems trying to answer this question. You believe there is a literal sanctuary in heaven with all the emblems that were here on earth, a veil, table of shewbread, etc....
Do I think there is one identical to earth? No...I believe the one on earth is only a figure of the true. The objects had other meanings that met their fulfillment in Jesus. Take the golden jar of manna kept in the ark, it represented Jesus who is the bread of life who came down from heaven, who dwelt in the very bosom of the Father. There is no golden jar in heaven.
He came down to this earth, and performed the work of salvation as presented in the old covenant.
Is there two rooms separated by a veil in heaven? No...The veil stood for the flesh of Christ. So you see, it's a no answer for the sanctuary you yourself are thinking of, but does God have a dwelling place as represented by the Most Holy Place? Yes.
Question 3. I believe hebrews 10:2 is being misunderstood. What we're reading is the that blood of bulls and of goats couldn't take away sin. This is why they had to repeat the offerings again and again. The comers weren't purged of their sins. They were still conscience of their guilt. If they could purge a person, then the sacrifices would have stopped because they would have been purged after the first one.
And one thing we learn is that Christ only had to sacrifice himself once. This means that his sacrifice did what the blood of bulls and of goats couldn't, and that was purge us of our sins:
For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time. Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins
But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God's right hand. (hebrews 10:10-12)
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hbr 10:18 - And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices
Hbr 10:19 - And so, dear brothers and sisters,* we can boldly enter heaven's Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus.
Because of passing through his flesh and blood we now have entrance into heaven.
Do you see? He cleanses you of your sin. He only needed one sacrifice to do it. If it wouldn't have been able to forgive you of your sin, then he would have had to sacrifice himself again and again and again. But we're told he didn't do that, we're told he did it once, and sat down having perfected forever them that are sanctified.
I attend a non-denominational group that just calls ourselves christian, or born again believers of Jesus Christ. I personally dislike denominations, as the only name we were given in the bible were Christians.
I'll be happy to answer those questions on either your channel or in a private message:) I would like to keep to the topic of the sanctuary here though.
You mentioned that you see that the cleansing mentioned in Dan 8:14 is referring to the defilement of the little horn and not a cleansing of the sins of the confessed then that tosses the 2300 day prophecy of 1844 out the window.
@thatnicekid04 The Bible says all meats are clean, why havent you already read this. all meats are clean through prayer. thats new testament. tithes go to the church, the priesthood. My church is encouranged to follow Christ's commandments. To love God and love our neighbors as ourselves.
@Myhopeisinhim Now about things being a "Shadow" have you ever seen your shadow before? It's amazing isn't it? But what do you think, does your shadow not represent you? I mean if your shadow is a certain way, how much more amazing is the real thing? If the Sanctuary on earth was a shadow of the real thing(Heb 8:5), how much more impressive is the real thing. But for something to be a shadow it must have some resemblance. What do you think?
When Jesus is done with the atonement, we wont remember our sins. When we confess our sins, it is put on the Lamb. The whole Sanctuary Message is in Hebrews 9-10. Hebrews 10:2,3,10,17,18, 19 and 26. Everything that was said by the SDA man can be backed up with the scriptures. For proof just see if you remember your sins. If you do then Jesus is not done atoning for our sins. I wish all would study Hebrews 8 to carefully.
Rom 5:11 - And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Not only did Jesus blood cancel our condemnation, but it washed away our sins. They aren't sitting waiting in the sanctuary to ensure that we continue to walk in the ten commandments, or to be returned to us if we don't. They are washed away, dealt with, which is why we have no more condemnation.
So explain why the bible says we wont remember our sins when Jesus is done, but at this point we still remember our sins? (Hebrews 10:2,3,10,17,18,19 and 26).
And what do you say is meant by the Sanctuary being cleansed 2300 days/years (Numbers 14:34) after Daniel heard the prophecy in Daniel 8:14? We know that there hasn't been a Sanctuary on earth since A.D. 70... We do know that the only Sanctuary left is the one in Heaven...Revelation 11:19, Hebrews 9:4...
You do realize there are no scriptures that state that your sin is transferred to the sanctuary right? only that your sins are transferred to the lamb, who removes them from you. There is absolutely no biblical record of your sins defiling the blood of the lamb and going into the sanctuary.
The blood is the cleansing agent and the proof that the sins are dealt with, that the penalty for them had been paid allowing the sinner to be pardoned as though they were never committed
We're still in these corruptible bodies. We will have our memories...But God is not us...God is not storing them after one confesses, to toss them back on us in the end, should you fall and not be perfect.
I don't claim to understand how every single thing works, but I do know one thing. You are now made right in the eyes of God because you have confessed and turned to Jesus as your Savior. His blood has been applied to you and your sins have been washed away.
You can now enter the most holy place because you have received the atonement.
@Myhopeisinhim You still did not answer any of my questions. Explain why we still remember our sins (Hebrews 10:2,3) and explain the Sanctuary being cleansed in Daniel 8:14.
Because we still remember things while we are on this earth. Our bodies are still corruptible. We still have our memories. That has nothing to do with our sins still being counted against us. In order to prove that the cleansing of the sanctuary has to do with sins having defiled the inner room, you need to first prove that sins entered the sanctuary, and not simply the blood of atonement.
Are you telling me that something unholy can enter the sanctuary of God?
@Myhopeisinhim So Jesus is not done yet that's why we still remember our sins, is that what you are saying? Explain to me the Sanctuary being cleansed after the 2300 days(Daniel 8:14). Now if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah (Daniel 9:24-27), then you also believe that He arrived during the last week of the 70 week prophecy. According to the 70 week prophecy, Jesus began his ministry in 31 A.D. So that means something happened in 1844. (Starting dates of both prophecies begin 457 BC)
@thatnicekid04 The sanctuary could mean the body of christ. Nothing happened in 1844. According to ms White, Christ was supposed to come back in 1844, then she said the following year and the year after that. Your understanding of the scriptures and your denominations are in error.
@Myhopeisinhim I'm still confused about what you are saying. You said Jesus removed our sins at the cross. But yet the bible says when our sins are taken away we wont remember them(Hebrews 10:2,3). The bible supports a cleansing of a sanctuary after 2300 days/years (Daniel 8:14) which starting at 457 b.c. would end up around 1843/44(no year 0). Now it would make since that Jesus being our High priest would make an atonement for our sins after the pattern of Lev 16. Explain...
I'm gonna use a different translation that makes it easier to understand hebrews:
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.
If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.
But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
It was with the animal sacrifices that reminded them of their sins, it wasn't possible for their blood to take away sins, but Jesus was...
different. His blood could actually purify people. His blood could take away sins. This is why he didn't have to sacrifice himself again and again. They had to do sacrifices every year for this very reason that it couldn't take away the sins of the people, and couldn't take away their guilt.
We can stand free of guilt today. Yes, we may remember, but praise the Lord our sins have been cleansed and we don't have to pay for them because of what Jesus did on the cross.
Your condemnation has been removed because he took your sin upon himself and paid the price for them:
the law was given to show the world guilty before God. Jesus came to remove that guilt and show you righteous in god's eyes. And he did exactly that. This is why he only had to sacrifice himself once and after doing so sat down at the right hand of God having already competed the atonement. We're told we've already received the atonement.
Hebrews tells us that he already entered the Most Holy place and presented his blood to the Father, he didn't wait until 1844 to do that. After the blood was shed the first thing the priest did was take the blood into the presence of the Father.
This is why, you today, can go into the most Holy Place and reach the Father in his place because Jesus went in before you. Did you know that the 2300 days starts half way through the 69th week?
You have been purified of your sins, and thus your guilt has been removed. This is why you stand free and not condemned in his name.
Your sins have been forgiven and your guilt removed. This is why it only takes him dying once. Otherwise he'd have to die over and over again as the sacrifices of old had to do because they couldn't take away sin. His sacrifice did..This is why salvation is based on believing in his work. If we don't believe, we'd die in our sins. We've already been judged.
We've already been judged by God's law and found guilty. There isn't a future judgment that decides this.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If you don't believe, you've already been judged guilty of your sins. If you believe, you will not come into condemnation but have past from death unto life because you believe on the name of his Son.
Either you believe and are set free now, or you don't believe and are condemned already. This is the way each person is in the world today.
Before we came to Christ we were condemned already. After we come to him, there is therefore now no condemnation. We're not waiting to be told in the future whether or not we'll be saved. You can know, here today, now. You can be set free now!
@Myhopeisinhim Ok explain how did you come up with the 2300 day prophecy begininng in the 69th week. And when does it end, and what the sanctuary being cleansed mean?
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This discusses the 69th week, and how in the middle of the week the sacrifice, or dailies shall cease...now if we move to Daniel 8.....
Dan 8:13-14 ¶ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the DAILY [sacrifice], and the transgression of DESOLATION, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed
So comparing the two verses, you can see that the 2300 days starts in the midst of the 69th week.
Read the verses carefully, the connection is there. Daniel 9:27 is speaking of the final week of the 70 week period that God has set upon the people. How in the midst of the week the dailies are ceased and an abomination of desolation set up.
Daniel 8 speaks of the same ceasing of dailies and the same abomination and how long that will be allowed to be permitted to go on for which is 2300 days. This isn't my interpretation I've just shared exactly what is written.
It starts in the midst of the week and God allows it to continue for 2300 days from that point. Whatever this ceasing is referring to, and whatever the abomination is, is what is polluting the temple and God will cleanse the sanctuary in 2300 days.
@Myhopeisinhim The 70 week prophecy has everything to do with Jesus. Jesus was anointed at the 69th week, so there was 1 week left for the Jews. Jesus died in the midst of that prophetic week. The Apostles preached the message to the Jews for an extra 3 and a half years. Both starting dates are the same. Jesus took away the Daily Sacrifice because he was the fulfillment of it. But regardless, what does the Sanctuary being cleansed mean?
After this period of sixty-two sets of seven,* the Anointed One will be killed(Yes thats Jesus), appearing to have accomplished nothing, and A RULER(NOT JESUS) will ARISE whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.
You have two people being spoken of in this verse.. Jesus, and the ruler of the one who destroyed the temple in A.D 70.
You've seen a shift now, gone from Jesus to speaking of another ruler......that's whose being spoken of in the next verse:
The RULER(the one who destroyed temple) will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,* but after half this time, HE(RULER) will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a CLIMAX to all his TERRIBLE deeds,* he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes DESECRATION,* until the FATE decreed for this DEFILER is finally poured out on him."
The fate decreed for the defiler, the ruler of the people who destroyed the temple, is the lake of fire at the end of time. He will be allowed to defile the temple until the time as such his fate is reached and his end is poured out upon him..
This isn't Jesus. His blood didn't defile anything. He never set up a sacrilegious object, but satan does. He sets up an image that he orders people to worship. He'll declare himself to be God in the midst of that week. He will be allowed for a time.
We can really only work on this one at a time though. First we look at the 2300 days. We can tell by the two verses that the abomination of desolation and the sacrifices being ceased will be allowed to continue for 2300 days. We also learn that this happens in the midst of the 69th week.
Start small. Pray and read these verses over, see the connection between the 2300 days and the 69th week and how it starts in the middle, and take it from there.
@Myhopeisinhim My friend the bible doesn't say that though. All it says would happen is that Messiah would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 is a prophecy that was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the temple on earth was destroyed. Flood means an army of people prophetically. In verse 27, Jesus is confirming the covenant. But fine you don't believe that the Sanctuary started being cleansed in 1844. Thats fine, but still explain what it means to clean the Sanctuary.
@Myhopeisinhim You are adding words that I don't see in the bible. Read Daniel 9:21-23, remember Daniel fainted in Daniel 8:27. The only person that confirms the covenant in 9:27 is Jesus. But you are saying whats biblical. You have no verses to support your theory. Satan is not allowed in God's Heavenly temple. He is allowed no where near it. Just accept that the sanctuary being cleansed is the Heavenly Sanctuary. The 2300 day prophecy starts exactly when the 70 week prophecy begins.
@Myhopeisinhim Ok my bible says that. But, I really want to understand what Sanctuary is being cleansed. This language is found in Leviticus 16:30-34. I hope one day you will see that the literal things in the OT, are spirtualized in the NT. The procedures in the Mosaic Law was just a shadow of what Jesus is really doing. Aaron was to typify Jesus as High Priest. The Sanctuary God told Moses to build was a type of the real one in Heaven.
@Myhopeisinhim We wont agree on dates of this event happenening, and that is fine, but I just want the point. So far all verses you are showing me are Sanctuary Message worthy. I want to know what you say is meant when the bible says the Sanctuary shall be cleansed. For me it refers to the Day of Atonement.
I'm not asking you to agree with me but rather agree with what you can see mentioned in the verses for yourself. This is why I'm pointing directly to the scripture. Just bear with me a moment longer:) Do you see though how both verses and surrounding context discusses the dailies being taken away?
@Myhopeisinhim Yes they discuss the dailies being taken away. I want to know what you think the bible means when it says the Sanctuary shall be cleansed? Daniel 9:26 says that the sanctuary will be destroyed, of course this is the earthly sanctuary in 70 A.D. but yet the bible says that the Sanctuary shall be cleansed 2300 years after the prophecy begins. What does this mean to you?
If you'll just be patient with me a little while longer, we'll get to that. First I'm trying to establish what we see in the verses before we try to interpret and determine what they mean.
Does Daniel 9:27 state that the dailies are taken away and the abomination is set up in the midst of the 69th week?
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the SACRIFICE and the oblation to CEASE, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Does this show that the sacrifice gets removed in the midst of the week?
@Myhopeisinhim Yes Jesus did die in the midst of the last week of the 70 week prophecy. His ministry was 3 and 1/2 years or prophetic days long. His death caused the sacrifices of animals to cease because of his death (Colossians 2:14). 3 and 1/2 years later or prophetic days, Stephen was stoned and Jesus stood up, signifying that probation for the Jews was over, and the message was then to be spread to the Gentiles (Acts 7:55-60). But answer my question please.
That's not what I asked...I said did sacrifices stop, and the abomination get set up in the midst of the 69th week? I'm refraining from interpretation at this point until we can establish what the verses are bluntly saying with the words alone.
I assure you I will get to what the cleansing is referring to, but please allow me to establish a firm base on what we can see. Don't worry I'm not ignoring your question. We'll get ourselves there once we establish a firm foundation together in what we together see the verses to say.
According to Daniel 8:13-14, we read of this ceasing of the dailies and the abomination of desolation, and Daniel asks a question, of how long will that occur for. He responded with 2300 days.
This means from the first time we see the ceasing of the dailies and the abomination, it will last for 2300 days. Is that what you see as well?
@Myhopeisinhim I need you to get to your point, because now I'm a bit bored. The verse says the Sanctuary will be cleansed in 2300 days. What does this mean. I just need to know what you think this means. After this point I will not answer to anymore of these until this question is answered.
To get a better understanding of what the term means you need to first understand what is going on in the verses. You need to look at what is going on, as well as the surrounding context.
I want you to break down the verses, without interpretation, so that you can first determine what is there without preconceived ideas on my part or yours. It's easy for me to say what I think, but then you could say what you think and we'd be no better off. I want you to see what the...
verse actually says. I want us to set aside personal interpretation and get to the core of the verses. Since you don't like my method of asking you questions, or breaking them down. I'll post breaking them down myself. Might take me a short bit to do so, but I'll have them posted by tonight I'm hoping.
Let's back up to verse 9...we see a little horn come up...This little horn in verse 11 challenged the prince of the host by cancelling the daily sacrifices, and the truth was cast down(vs) 12.
The little horn, this ruler, as we read in other places will set up a sacrilegious object(9:27), and even declare himself to be God in the temple(2 Thes 2:4). Basically when he cancels the sacrifice, sets up the object, declares himself to be God.....
, is what would be considered the abomination of desolation which happens midway through the 69th week(dan 9:27).
A question is then asked in Daniel 8:13:
How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? So here they are asking how long the abomination, the ceasing of sacrifices, the actions of the little horn be allowed to continue for......
When will the sanctuary be cleansed of the little horns abomination, as shown earlier? This question of how long it will be allowed to continue for is in the next verse
Until two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. It will be cleansed of the defilement performed by the little horn. It has nothing to do with the sins of the confessed being cleansed out of the sanctuary.....
You need to follow the verses in context. The sanctuary will be cleansed of the abomination of desolation, it will be cleansed of the transgression that was committed when he stopped the dailies.
You take daniel 8:14 and believe the 2300 days ended in 1844, but tell me....? Was the sanctuary cleansed of anything that was mentioned in those verses of Daniel 8:11,12,13,24 in 1844? When did the little horn go up against the prince of princes and when was he broken?....
What the sanctuary will be cleansed of was mentioned in the verses prior to verse 14, and as you can see it has nothing to do with the confessed sins of the believer, and all to do with the cleansing of the defilement performed by the little horn in the sanctuary.
The little horn will be allowed to defile the sanctuary for 2300 days until his end is decreed upon him and then it will be cleansed of his abominations....
That chapter is not discussing the defilement of the believers sins in the sanctuary, doesn't even come close. they were asking of how long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the sacrifices. How long will the temple be trampled on by the little horn.
The response was that this would continue for 2300 days and then the temple will be restored. Thatnicekid04, I don't even need to give my interpretation do I? The verses show you it's not talking about our sins.
It is important for us to only go by what we see, and not completely switch up a verse to mean something else that the surrounding context doesn't teach. Again, the cleansing is the removal of the abominations performed by the little horn, the antichrist, in the sanctuary.
I know that you've been taught that verse means something else, but please my dear, search and see for yourself the answers as are given in scripture. Look at the verse just before verse 14, you answer lies there
Thank you so much for the patience you have shown me:) I hope that these comments will be of some help to you. May God bless your sincere and patient heart:)
Let's work through one thing at a time:). Would you agree that the cleansing being spoken of in verse 14 is in reference to the defilement spoken of in the verses before?
In all honesty, what I quoted is just what is given in scripture. This is why I didn't want to just post it myself and get you to break down the verses on your own so you can see that I'm not posting my interpretation. This is what I wanted to avoid by having you see it for yourself.
Verse 14 about "2300 days" was in answer to the question in verse 13. And verse 13 asks how long will the abominations be allowed to continue until the temple is cleansed of them.....
The actions and/or abominations performed by the little horn are the ones that the temple will be cleansed of. I could tell you what I believed the dailies meant, etc, but I don't need to share my interpretation because the verses alone show that its not referring to the sins of the confessed.
I'm just following the context from when it starts discussing the little horn and his actions to when they will be stopped. My church doesn't speak an awful lot on prophecy, I'm just going by what....
I attend a non-denominational church in our area. I can't give out the name of one because it gives away the location of the church and I keep my location private online for safety reasons. You never know what kind of people are out there.
I just ask that you read from verse 9 to verse 14 and from verse 23 to 26...if you'll notice at the end of the 2300 days the little horn will be broken that is the end of the prophecy of the little horn.
@Myhopeisinhim Somehow you said so many words, but never answered my question. What's up with that? How do you explain Daniel 12:11-12. Don't both dates end in 1798 and 1843/44 respectively? And would you say that there is a sanctuary in heaven or not?
They don't end in 1798 or 1843/1844. Those are dates made up by the millerite or adventist movement and not ones given in the bible.
But let's stick with the cleansing of the sanctuary for the moment. Too many directions being taken at once. You wanted me to address the cleansing of the sanctuary, so let's stick with that currently. daniel 8 is the only place that mentioned 2300 days, and its mentioned in reference to the defilement in previous verses...
the defilment of the little horn when he takes away the dailies, etc. Or are you going to see fit to change the meaning in verse 14 to something else not even discussed in Daniel 8?
Once we finish addressing daniel 8 and the cleansing discussed there we can move on. I don't want to address the sanctuary in regards to how its a figure of what's in heaven because that is a heavy, deep topic all its own.
The bible speaks of the veil that separates the holy place and the most holy place in the earthly tabernacle. What does that veil represent? The answer to that question will share with you as to whether there is a literal replica in heaven, or whether it is more figurative speaking.
I'm curious to your response now about Dan 8:14, do you see how the cleansing of the sanctuary is speaking of the removal of the defilement performed by the little horn in earlier verses?
If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask, but we do have to accept the context in which it is given, and while you have been taught it has to do with the removal of the sins of the confessed, that is not the context given in that chapter.
It's important to go by the bible and not what any man teaches you. Please search the chapter.
Why do you keep bypassing what I say and moving on to next topic? Trying to get you to admit that the cleansing you thought was speaking of the "cleansing of the sins of the confessed out of the heavenly sanctuary" was in fact not talking about that at all.
You wanted me to discuss what the cleansing in that verse meant, and now you want to avoid it after I've discussed it? Is there a reason for that? Let's first finish this and then I will address the next sanctuary topic.
I will be happy to answer more questions, once you address issues already raised:) You pushed me for an answer in regards to cleansing of the sanctuary, let's stick to that topic for now as mentioned in Daniel 8 and what it speaks of there.
After that I'll be happy to discuss what I believe in regards to whether there is a sanctuary in heaven.
We discussed Daniel 8 in context, and the question that existed of how long the defilements of the little horn would be allowed to pollute the sanctuary which was answered in verse 14. Can you admit that in the context given in chapter 8 that the 2300 days is not referring to the sin of the confessed, but rather the defilement of the little horn?
I want us to pin down the context before we move on.
What's pinned down? Do you agree with what I've said, or do you think that it is still referring to the cleansing of the sins of the confessed in heaven which apparently started in 1844 even though the verse and the surrounding context says otherwise?
Once you elaborate on this, I will share with you the answer you are looking for.
....when the dailies cease. This is something that is often missed. No one seems to notice that the 2300 days starts when the dailies cease, and the dailies don't cease until the midst of the 69th week.
@thatnicekid04 Your interested in things you don't understand, I see your tied up on questionable things yet you havent even done the basic things that will lead you to salvation. romans 10:9 says confess the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart, this is the first step then you shall be saved, the H/S shall lead you into all truths. He will teach you whats rite from wrong.
John wrote "little children, sin not. Yet, if we sin, we have an attorney nxt to the Father..." It makes sense to understand that we have the lawyer ever-present to defend us as we sin but then HOW does forgiveness happen?? "If we CONFESS our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive them.." You can see the ongoing process. People don't confess any more, they don't repent. They desire to sin. Demand to be able to swim in sin and still make it into the kingdom. It won't work. See 1 Cor. 6:9-10.
pianOracle 4 weeks ago
strong arguments. I'll be honest. I have serious questions concerning some stuff that Ellen White wrote. However, I NEVER question her concepts because they're clear. You can't use that Go-card to sin forever until Jesus returns, just because you've been baptized. People know that but don't wanna hear it. They want to sin, have their cake, and eat it too. They want to hold on to their secret sins and sneak them into Heaven with them.
pianOracle 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Circumcision of the flesh was the initiation rite into Judaism where by the obligation to keep all the Jewish Law, the weekly Sabbath, the annual Sabbaths, meat restrictions..etc all became obligatory. See Acts 15:5 and Gal.5:3. When circumcision failed to become part of Christianity so did the Jewish Sabbaths..etc. SDA doctrine was completely condemned by the council of Jerusalem in 51 AD
EricSaavy 3 months ago
sda is a cult as long as it holds on to ellen g whites teachings. read colossians 2:16. and ephesains 2:8-9. repent turn from sin and trust in Christ alone not your religous ways and tradition and the sabbath.
mamainmancj 3 months ago
@mamainmancj ...sda is a cult??? are u sure? read all the article and E G. White writing as original...which denomination you belong?.....trust in Christ alone is not enough...we must follow His command and His ways....regarding Sabbath...you were so dump....read and study your bible...don't harden your heart...pray before you read your bible...God bless
MyThailand2011 1 month ago
@MyThailand2011 SDA is definately a cult, this video proves that. This video contains quoted statements of the words of Ms White, yet you still follow her. the Bible is a completed book, Ellen White's words are `not necessary for salvation yet she by her own words says she is the last great prophet. Stop following false doctrines. satan easily fools people. use wisdom!! trusting in Christ alone is enough because He is God. You and your church is false....point blank!!
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
@MyThailand2011 You call a person "dumb"??? Where are the Fruits of the Spirit? Where is the love we are suppose to show to one another? Would you mind showing me where Christ's attonement is not sufficient (not enough as you have put it) for our salvation?
diesbl 1 month ago
@MyThailand2011 - con't - Are you saying Christ's shed blood on the cross cannot fully fulfill the requirement God requires for our sins payment and therefore we need to keep Christ's commandments, His ways and the Sabbath, to get saved? If so, would you mind giving me the book, chapter and verse to show this to me?
diesbl 1 month ago
Our scriptures tell us Mark 16:19 "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God." Why? To be the intercessor/mediator for us.
diesbl 3 months ago
Investigative judgement is a lie from the pit of hell. To make Jesus Christ's Diety a laughingstock is beyond me! He knows all things. All knowing! He knows every sin everyone has, does, and will commit till their death. To believe He needs to go to a heavenly sanctuary to keep notes on a person's life and watching their every move is so unscriptural.
diesbl 3 months ago
If one believes his any of his good works are righeous enough to get him into Heaven, hear this! God says that if you do not keep the WHOLE law, then you are guilty of death and hell. Those who are trying to get into Heaven by Faith plus works, be prepared to tell God you had faith in Christ's attonment plus you KEPT THE WHOLE LAW!
diesbl 3 months ago
@diesbl The Bible says If we follow the law we cannot follow christ. Galatians says that. Read your Bible. The bible says we must follow the law of Christ, the law of the spirit. You cannot follow the ten commandments and make it to heaven, impossible. You need the atoned blood of jesus to clease us from the sin of breaking the ten commandments. The idea of it is the law condemns us but the blood free's us from the penalty of breaking the commandments. You are seriously ignorant.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
Comment removed
diesbl 1 month ago
@MyBountykilla I said, "The Bible says If we follow the law we cannot follow christ"...meaning we can't follow the law of Moses (which includes the 10 Commandments)...THE LAW...and expect to be saved by the Law (above) AND the blood attonment...Christ's sacrifice on Calvary. Christ's sacrifice Plus keeping the Law (WORKS). Rest assured MyBountykilla, I DO read my Bible and understand God's Word. Ignorant I AM NOT!
diesbl 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MyBountykilla I strongly advise you to go back and read all that I wrote on here against the SDA's beliefs and teachings.. and take you blinders off. Are you not reading correctly? I say the same as you but in more detail...are you kidding me!! Are you sure you are attacking the right person? Don't call me ignorant when you have not read what I said (completely) and every word.
diesbl 1 month ago
@MyBountykilla Following Christ (the Law of Christ) and the Holy Spirit...Paul equated Christ’s law to God’s law. (1 Cor. 9:21) “To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.”
diesbl 1 month ago
@MyBountykilla Paul told the Christians in Galatia to carry each other’s burdens, and in doing so they would fulfill the law of Christ. (Gal. 6:2) and we are to bare the fruits of the Spirit. All that I said and you attacked me for saying, had to do with salvation by grace without the works of the law. Following Christ's law happens AFTER we are saved!
diesbl 1 month ago
This makes the sacrifical death and attonment of Christ on the cross...only partial. He did His part...now it's your turn to do yours. One had better take a really good and long look at themself's and see themself's and their sins as God sees them. Not as man sees them but how God sees them. To think that my good works are good enough, is myself fooling myself.
diesbl 3 months ago
The worst is Salvation by faith and works. This is arrogance. To believe any works that one can do before he dies are righteous enough to HELP get yourself into Heaven is arrogance. This means you do not trust (have Faith) that Christ's death on the cross was good enough and complete enough to get someone into Heaven. One has to help Him out. Saved by Faith but kept saved by Works. What arrogance. If you are counting on this formula, you will not go to Heven...period!!
diesbl 3 months ago
My sister and her husband, 7th Day Adventists, believe in "soul sleep".I asked my sister one day, if that is true then how could Elijah and Moses appear in bodily form, talking with Jesus Christ, and with Peter, James, and John as witnesses, if they were soul sleeping? Peter, James and John knew right away who they were at first sight (even though they never met them personally of course) These people do not search the scriptures to see if what they are being told/taught, is true.
diesbl 3 months ago
My sister and her husband are 7th Day Adventists. They don't know where they will go when they die and they claim that no one can know where they will be going after death. God will make that decision at the White Throne judgement. They tell me they will go to Heaven if they are good enough. How sad!
diesbl 3 months ago
The rich man in hell, had a body with tongue, ears, vocal cords and eyes, and their bodily senses, awareness of his whereabouts and danger, memory, connection to earthly relatives, and knowledge of others' names, etc.: Saint Paul took a trip to the 3rd Heaven and couldn't tell if he was in the body or out of the body...he knew he had a spirit body. The rich man in hell had a full immortal spirit body with all senses intact.
diesbl 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Ashes that are burned up: burned out (fire gone out), doesn’t go anywhere. This fire keeps on burning and keeps on accending.
diesbl 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ellen G White established the doctrine of annihilationism for the wicked the meaning of "eternal punishment". She taught that in the same manner as a roach burned up in a house fire are annihilated, the sinner would be burned up and annihilated by the lake of fire. In her twisted theology, both the roach and the sinner are "eternally punished: by being annihilated.
It's nothing more than deliberate self-deception. She & they know good and well, that's not what Christ meant!
EricSaavy 3 months ago
Country Living, Daughters of God, Letters to Young Lovers, Messages to YoungPeople, Testimonies on Sexual Behavior,Adultery&Divorce, TheAdvocate, Counsels on Diet&Foods, Counsels onHealth, TheHealthFoodMinistry, TheHealthReformer, TheMinistry of Healing, LastDay Events, A Word 2d LittleFlock, ChristObject Lessons, TheStory ofJesus, ChristianLeadership, Welfare Ministry, Pastoral Ministry, etc... What was the purpose of EGW of writings all of these books? Was she alone wrote these?
RhedTiger 4 months ago
RhedTiger 4 months ago
@RhedTiger Ellen G White established the doctrine of annihilationism for the wicked the meaning of "eternal punishment". She taught that in the same manner as a roach burned up in a house fire are annihilated, the sinner would be burned up and annihilated by the lake of fire. In her twisted theology, both the roach and the sinner are "eternally punished: by being annihilated.
It's nothing more than deliberate self-deception. She & they know good and well, that's not what Christ meant!
EricSaavy 3 months ago
@EricSaavy Just a thought here...From what I have learned throughout scripture, I could be wrong, but from what I can see, God created mankind as a spirit with a soul, flesh and blood. Our flesh will return to dust and our soul dies but our spirit, our true nature, lives for ever and never dies. The spirt will spend eternity either in Heaven, if you are saved, or in hell, after which it will be cast into the lake of fire to burn for eternity.
diesbl 3 months ago
@EricSaavy con't: The angels are created spirit creatures and the fallen angels will also be cast into the lake of fire to burn for ever. I have never read in scripture where the spirit ever dies or is annihilated (extinguished, wipped out, extinguished, completely)...God says those that are in the lake of fire, their stinch will come up before His throne forever.
diesbl 3 months ago
@EricSaavy I think Ellen G White must have thought it wasn't hot enough in Hell to annihilate an unsaved person...one had to wait till they reached the Lake of Fire???
diesbl 1 month ago
@RhedTiger All adventist quote this scripture. Ellen White is a false prophet, what more do you need to know in order to understand that your doctrine is wrong? furthermore you dont understand the meaning of the sabbath. sabbath means "rest". God was telling man to enter into His sabbath(rest) God has completed salvation through jesus. Once you accept jesus as your Lord your saying I belong to Jesus. Jesus owns Heaven and everything else, so He will save His people who chose Him.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
Let's just go back 2 the word of God aye something that Ellen g white is in contradiction to therefore she is a faulse prophet. Cheers people Godbless
mamainmancj 6 months ago
those who teach or believe one can lose their salvation are not saved people anyway. the truth is not in them . scripture clearly states that the Holy Spirit shall lead you into ALL truth. God is not some foolish indian giver so that once its given you can lose it. then we would all mess up and lose it and no one could stay saved
woodowl003 6 months ago
@woodowl003 Well we have freedom of choice don't we, you can actually tell God you don't want. Salvation is a process ok. We have to completley fill out the process. Satan lost his place in heaven, the children of Israel lost thier salvation. You can blaspheme the H/S and lose salvation, Jesus said that. you are speaking a lie, you are now a false prophet. It's easy to be a false prophet guy, just speak and preach contrary arguements to the word of God. Read about Blaspheming
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
sda is a confused cult. they are puting ellen g whites teachings above jesus' keeping the sabbath and the certain diet read colossains 2:16 and that will answer that. use are relying on works to save you read ephesains 2:8-9 for by garce are we saved through faith and not of works lest ne man should boast. jesus furfilled what use are bound to on the cross. repent and put ure trust in christs finished work on the cross alone and you will be born again and saved. the truth (jesus) will set u free
mamainmancj 6 months ago
@bigestl
Do you not believe that jesus blood cleanseth you of all sin, making you right in the Father's sight so you can enter his presence?
Myhopeisinhim 6 months ago
it it clear the SDA guy prob is not his belief in Ms. White but HIS SKILLS IN DEBATING WHAT HE BELIEVES. BEING ON A DEBATE TEAM MYSELF I KNOW WE ARE TAUGHT HOW TO WIN ARGUMENTS AND THE 7DAY GUY DOSE NOT HAVE THAT DEBATE SKILL B/C I WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WON THIS ARGUMENT CHILD BOO
bigestl 7 months ago
@bigestl You would have lost the argument simply because the quoted statements of Ellen G White would've put you to shame. She contradicts the Bible easily, you can't defend that. your following a fool, Blind leaders of the blind.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
Your sins are not blotted out just b/c you came to Christ. The Bible teaches us that. Even the Saints need to be forgiven there sins and Satain can trick even the very Elleate of Christ to fall. Look at Simon Peter when he denied Christ 3x even after Christ told him he was going to do that. as mush as he loved God he still fell. the bible teaches us the SPIRIT IS WILLING BUT THE FLESH IS WEAK AMEN SPEAK LORD. Even King David whom God said is a man after God Own heart Sined. & needed forgiveness
bigestl 7 months ago
no your sins do not get blotted out just b/c you come to Christ. At one point i agreed with the guys on Ellen G white but then i saw that flaw in there belief and attack on her writings. its not about what Ms. white said they turned and started attacking and twisting the teachings that r in the Bile its self. As a Christan i say show me the scriptures were Ms. White went agents the word of God. Don't Assume im dumb enough to just except it that she did only b/c u say so.
bigestl 7 months ago
@bigestl the bible says in duertoromy, If a prophet prophesies a thing and it doesnt come to pass, That is a false Prophet. Ellen clearly falls into that category hands down. She has made many prophecies and they did not come to pass. You think If Elijah the prophet was alive to day and He prophesied that Jesus was coming back tomorrow that it wouldnt happen? Don't be fooled. Your following proven foolish doctrines. Proven to false. God gave you a brain, use it!!
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
Question 4 - Which verse you referring to? Daniel 8, or leviticus 16?
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Is there a sanctuary? The sanctuary represented the dwelling place of God. Heaven is Gods dwelling place. The resting place of the most high.
Is it an exact literal replica of the one on earth? No its not. Remember, the things on earth are not the very image of things. They were symbolic, shadows.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
For example. In the earthly sanctuary there was a veil which separated the holy place from the most holy place. We read in the scriptures that this veil in the earthly temple represented the flesh of Christ. This goes to show that the emblems within the temple are symbolic of another meaning and not the very literal image.
This means there is no literal veil in heaven standing between holy place and most holy. There is no table for the showbread with the bread sitting on it.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
These all were symbolic. So is there a sanctuary exactly as the one on earth? No. Is there the very image of things in heaven that the earthly ones represented? yes.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Please when you have time read these verses.
Rev 1:12
Rev 11:19
Heb 9:1-4,24
Heb 8:1-6
It seems to me that the Sanctuary that Moses was to make was only an example of the real Sanctuary in Heaven. In Moses' day people went in the Sanctuary to have their sins forgiven. But now Jesus is our High Priest according to Hebrews. Why is He our High Priest? I read your answers but didn't quite get a yes or no. Do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
We're told in the very same chapter what those candlesticks meant, they were symbolic of the seven churches, just as the seven stars were symbolic of the seven angels. Revelation has alot of symbolic meaning. Take the lion of judah or even the lamb mentioned of in revelation. Jesus isn't really a lamb, he isn't really a lion, it's symbolism.
Just as there isn't a literal veil in heaven, it's symbolic of the flesh of Christ.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim So you don't believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven? Even though in Revelation 11:19, it tells us the temple of God was opened and there was seen the ark, which was only found in the most holy place (Hebrews 9:3,4).
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
There is the dwelling place of God in heaven, which was represented by the sanctuary on earth. However, the objects represented the salvation of mankind through Jesus Christ. Even the ark of the testament spoke of the testimony of Jesus. Remember the golden jar of manna(bread of life) and the rod of Aaron that budded?
When God looked down and saw the atonement, he would come and dwell with man above the mercy seat between the cherubims.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
The mercy seat, the atonement cover everything about it represents the work of reconciliation, redemption, etc, in Jesus
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim 4 questions I need your answers to...
1. Why isn't God dwelling with us now if our sins are forgiven like you said?
2. Why don't you give a simple yes or no about believing that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
3. Why do we still remember our sins(Heb 10:1-3)?
4. Which Sanctuary is being cleansed?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
1. Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. ....He doesn't have to come back before sins are forgiven. His return has nothing to do with sins, remember:
Heb 9:28 - so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.
He hasn't come because not all prophecy that....
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
was told has come to pass. Also, not everyone who is to be written in the book were born at the time he died. The resurrection is not the atonement, but to return for those who were atoned for through faith. He's also not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
question 2: There are two problems trying to answer this question. You believe there is a literal sanctuary in heaven with all the emblems that were here on earth, a veil, table of shewbread, etc....
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Do I think there is one identical to earth? No...I believe the one on earth is only a figure of the true. The objects had other meanings that met their fulfillment in Jesus. Take the golden jar of manna kept in the ark, it represented Jesus who is the bread of life who came down from heaven, who dwelt in the very bosom of the Father. There is no golden jar in heaven.
He came down to this earth, and performed the work of salvation as presented in the old covenant.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Is there two rooms separated by a veil in heaven? No...The veil stood for the flesh of Christ. So you see, it's a no answer for the sanctuary you yourself are thinking of, but does God have a dwelling place as represented by the Most Holy Place? Yes.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Question 3. I believe hebrews 10:2 is being misunderstood. What we're reading is the that blood of bulls and of goats couldn't take away sin. This is why they had to repeat the offerings again and again. The comers weren't purged of their sins. They were still conscience of their guilt. If they could purge a person, then the sacrifices would have stopped because they would have been purged after the first one.
They would never have had to be repeated again.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
And one thing we learn is that Christ only had to sacrifice himself once. This means that his sacrifice did what the blood of bulls and of goats couldn't, and that was purge us of our sins:
For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time. Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God's right hand. (hebrews 10:10-12)
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Hbr 10:18 - And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices
Hbr 10:19 - And so, dear brothers and sisters,* we can boldly enter heaven's Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Because of passing through his flesh and blood we now have entrance into heaven.
Do you see? He cleanses you of your sin. He only needed one sacrifice to do it. If it wouldn't have been able to forgive you of your sin, then he would have had to sacrifice himself again and again and again. But we're told he didn't do that, we're told he did it once, and sat down having perfected forever them that are sanctified.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim What church do you go to?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
I attend a non-denominational group that just calls ourselves christian, or born again believers of Jesus Christ. I personally dislike denominations, as the only name we were given in the bible were Christians.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim
1. Does your church have a prophet?
2. Does your church encourage the keeping of God's commandments, including His 7th day Sabbath?
3. What is your church's belief on what happens when you die?
4. What is your church's belief on diet and health?
5. Is there a distinction between clean and unclean food?
6. Where do your tithes go?
7. Would you say that your church has a vision to reach the world?
8. Would you say that it doesn't matter how you worship God?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
I'll be happy to answer those questions on either your channel or in a private message:) I would like to keep to the topic of the sanctuary here though.
You mentioned that you see that the cleansing mentioned in Dan 8:14 is referring to the defilement of the little horn and not a cleansing of the sins of the confessed then that tosses the 2300 day prophecy of 1844 out the window.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04 Gooo questions i believe every church should be able to answer those questions or atleast have a plan that outline those questions
Zoharpineal 6 months ago
@thatnicekid04 The Bible says all meats are clean, why havent you already read this. all meats are clean through prayer. thats new testament. tithes go to the church, the priesthood. My church is encouranged to follow Christ's commandments. To love God and love our neighbors as ourselves.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim Denominations are basicly outlining your strongest beliefs or core value of the church.
Zoharpineal 6 months ago
@Zoharpineal
In a way that's true, but it also brings division between the body of Christ.
Myhopeisinhim 6 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Now about things being a "Shadow" have you ever seen your shadow before? It's amazing isn't it? But what do you think, does your shadow not represent you? I mean if your shadow is a certain way, how much more amazing is the real thing? If the Sanctuary on earth was a shadow of the real thing(Heb 8:5), how much more impressive is the real thing. But for something to be a shadow it must have some resemblance. What do you think?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
When Jesus is done with the atonement, we wont remember our sins. When we confess our sins, it is put on the Lamb. The whole Sanctuary Message is in Hebrews 9-10. Hebrews 10:2,3,10,17,18, 19 and 26. Everything that was said by the SDA man can be backed up with the scriptures. For proof just see if you remember your sins. If you do then Jesus is not done atoning for our sins. I wish all would study Hebrews 8 to carefully.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Rom 5:11 - And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Not only did Jesus blood cancel our condemnation, but it washed away our sins. They aren't sitting waiting in the sanctuary to ensure that we continue to walk in the ten commandments, or to be returned to us if we don't. They are washed away, dealt with, which is why we have no more condemnation.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim
So explain why the bible says we wont remember our sins when Jesus is done, but at this point we still remember our sins? (Hebrews 10:2,3,10,17,18,19 and 26).
And what do you say is meant by the Sanctuary being cleansed 2300 days/years (Numbers 14:34) after Daniel heard the prophecy in Daniel 8:14? We know that there hasn't been a Sanctuary on earth since A.D. 70... We do know that the only Sanctuary left is the one in Heaven...Revelation 11:19, Hebrews 9:4...
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
You do realize there are no scriptures that state that your sin is transferred to the sanctuary right? only that your sins are transferred to the lamb, who removes them from you. There is absolutely no biblical record of your sins defiling the blood of the lamb and going into the sanctuary.
The blood is the cleansing agent and the proof that the sins are dealt with, that the penalty for them had been paid allowing the sinner to be pardoned as though they were never committed
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
We're still in these corruptible bodies. We will have our memories...But God is not us...God is not storing them after one confesses, to toss them back on us in the end, should you fall and not be perfect.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
I don't claim to understand how every single thing works, but I do know one thing. You are now made right in the eyes of God because you have confessed and turned to Jesus as your Savior. His blood has been applied to you and your sins have been washed away.
You can now enter the most holy place because you have received the atonement.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim You still did not answer any of my questions. Explain why we still remember our sins (Hebrews 10:2,3) and explain the Sanctuary being cleansed in Daniel 8:14.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Because we still remember things while we are on this earth. Our bodies are still corruptible. We still have our memories. That has nothing to do with our sins still being counted against us. In order to prove that the cleansing of the sanctuary has to do with sins having defiled the inner room, you need to first prove that sins entered the sanctuary, and not simply the blood of atonement.
Are you telling me that something unholy can enter the sanctuary of God?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim So Jesus is not done yet that's why we still remember our sins, is that what you are saying? Explain to me the Sanctuary being cleansed after the 2300 days(Daniel 8:14). Now if you believe that Jesus is the Messiah (Daniel 9:24-27), then you also believe that He arrived during the last week of the 70 week prophecy. According to the 70 week prophecy, Jesus began his ministry in 31 A.D. So that means something happened in 1844. (Starting dates of both prophecies begin 457 BC)
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04 The sanctuary could mean the body of christ. Nothing happened in 1844. According to ms White, Christ was supposed to come back in 1844, then she said the following year and the year after that. Your understanding of the scriptures and your denominations are in error.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim I'm still confused about what you are saying. You said Jesus removed our sins at the cross. But yet the bible says when our sins are taken away we wont remember them(Hebrews 10:2,3). The bible supports a cleansing of a sanctuary after 2300 days/years (Daniel 8:14) which starting at 457 b.c. would end up around 1843/44(no year 0). Now it would make since that Jesus being our High priest would make an atonement for our sins after the pattern of Lev 16. Explain...
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
I'm gonna use a different translation that makes it easier to understand hebrews:
The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.
But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
It was with the animal sacrifices that reminded them of their sins, it wasn't possible for their blood to take away sins, but Jesus was...
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
different. His blood could actually purify people. His blood could take away sins. This is why he didn't have to sacrifice himself again and again. They had to do sacrifices every year for this very reason that it couldn't take away the sins of the people, and couldn't take away their guilt.
We can stand free of guilt today. Yes, we may remember, but praise the Lord our sins have been cleansed and we don't have to pay for them because of what Jesus did on the cross.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Your condemnation has been removed because he took your sin upon himself and paid the price for them:
the law was given to show the world guilty before God. Jesus came to remove that guilt and show you righteous in god's eyes. And he did exactly that. This is why he only had to sacrifice himself once and after doing so sat down at the right hand of God having already competed the atonement. We're told we've already received the atonement.
We're not guilty anymore thanks to Jesus.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Hebrews tells us that he already entered the Most Holy place and presented his blood to the Father, he didn't wait until 1844 to do that. After the blood was shed the first thing the priest did was take the blood into the presence of the Father.
This is why, you today, can go into the most Holy Place and reach the Father in his place because Jesus went in before you. Did you know that the 2300 days starts half way through the 69th week?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
You have been purified of your sins, and thus your guilt has been removed. This is why you stand free and not condemned in his name.
Your sins have been forgiven and your guilt removed. This is why it only takes him dying once. Otherwise he'd have to die over and over again as the sacrifices of old had to do because they couldn't take away sin. His sacrifice did..This is why salvation is based on believing in his work. If we don't believe, we'd die in our sins. We've already been judged.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
We've already been judged by God's law and found guilty. There isn't a future judgment that decides this.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If you don't believe, you've already been judged guilty of your sins. If you believe, you will not come into condemnation but have past from death unto life because you believe on the name of his Son.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Either you believe and are set free now, or you don't believe and are condemned already. This is the way each person is in the world today.
Before we came to Christ we were condemned already. After we come to him, there is therefore now no condemnation. We're not waiting to be told in the future whether or not we'll be saved. You can know, here today, now. You can be set free now!
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ok explain how did you come up with the 2300 day prophecy begininng in the 69th week. And when does it end, and what the sanctuary being cleansed mean?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This discusses the 69th week, and how in the middle of the week the sacrifice, or dailies shall cease...now if we move to Daniel 8.....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Dan 8:13-14 ¶ Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the DAILY [sacrifice], and the transgression of DESOLATION, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed
So comparing the two verses, you can see that the 2300 days starts in the midst of the 69th week.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim My friend I think you are in error of this explanation. But lets go on with your explanation. What does cleaning the sanctuary mean?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
Comment removed
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Read the verses carefully, the connection is there. Daniel 9:27 is speaking of the final week of the 70 week period that God has set upon the people. How in the midst of the week the dailies are ceased and an abomination of desolation set up.
Daniel 8 speaks of the same ceasing of dailies and the same abomination and how long that will be allowed to be permitted to go on for which is 2300 days. This isn't my interpretation I've just shared exactly what is written.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
It starts in the midst of the week and God allows it to continue for 2300 days from that point. Whatever this ceasing is referring to, and whatever the abomination is, is what is polluting the temple and God will cleanse the sanctuary in 2300 days.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim What is polluting the temple of God?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim The 70 week prophecy has everything to do with Jesus. Jesus was anointed at the 69th week, so there was 1 week left for the Jews. Jesus died in the midst of that prophetic week. The Apostles preached the message to the Jews for an extra 3 and a half years. Both starting dates are the same. Jesus took away the Daily Sacrifice because he was the fulfillment of it. But regardless, what does the Sanctuary being cleansed mean?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
look at the phrasing of Daniel 9....
After this period of sixty-two sets of seven,* the Anointed One will be killed(Yes thats Jesus), appearing to have accomplished nothing, and A RULER(NOT JESUS) will ARISE whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.
You have two people being spoken of in this verse.. Jesus, and the ruler of the one who destroyed the temple in A.D 70.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
You've seen a shift now, gone from Jesus to speaking of another ruler......that's whose being spoken of in the next verse:
The RULER(the one who destroyed temple) will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven,* but after half this time, HE(RULER) will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a CLIMAX to all his TERRIBLE deeds,* he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes DESECRATION,* until the FATE decreed for this DEFILER is finally poured out on him."
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
The fate decreed for the defiler, the ruler of the people who destroyed the temple, is the lake of fire at the end of time. He will be allowed to defile the temple until the time as such his fate is reached and his end is poured out upon him..
This isn't Jesus. His blood didn't defile anything. He never set up a sacrilegious object, but satan does. He sets up an image that he orders people to worship. He'll declare himself to be God in the midst of that week. He will be allowed for a time.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
We can really only work on this one at a time though. First we look at the 2300 days. We can tell by the two verses that the abomination of desolation and the sacrifices being ceased will be allowed to continue for 2300 days. We also learn that this happens in the midst of the 69th week.
Start small. Pray and read these verses over, see the connection between the 2300 days and the 69th week and how it starts in the middle, and take it from there.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim My friend the bible doesn't say that though. All it says would happen is that Messiah would be cut off. Daniel 9:26 is a prophecy that was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the temple on earth was destroyed. Flood means an army of people prophetically. In verse 27, Jesus is confirming the covenant. But fine you don't believe that the Sanctuary started being cleansed in 1844. Thats fine, but still explain what it means to clean the Sanctuary.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
Leviticus 16 explains what it means to clean the Sanctuary during the time of Atonement. But whats your explaination?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim You are adding words that I don't see in the bible. Read Daniel 9:21-23, remember Daniel fainted in Daniel 8:27. The only person that confirms the covenant in 9:27 is Jesus. But you are saying whats biblical. You have no verses to support your theory. Satan is not allowed in God's Heavenly temple. He is allowed no where near it. Just accept that the sanctuary being cleansed is the Heavenly Sanctuary. The 2300 day prophecy starts exactly when the 70 week prophecy begins.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Let's take this one step at a time:) I'm not adding anything to the scripture, I'm just pointing out what is already there.
Do you notice an abomination of desolation mentioned in both verses?
8:13 - transgression of desolation
9:27 - bominations he shall make [it] desolate
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ok my bible says that. But, I really want to understand what Sanctuary is being cleansed. This language is found in Leviticus 16:30-34. I hope one day you will see that the literal things in the OT, are spirtualized in the NT. The procedures in the Mosaic Law was just a shadow of what Jesus is really doing. Aaron was to typify Jesus as High Priest. The Sanctuary God told Moses to build was a type of the real one in Heaven.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
If you could just bear with me, we'll get to that. No point in going further if we can't first establish a foundation right?
Do you also see how both verses speak of the ceasing of the dailies?
9:27 - sacrifice and the oblation to cease
8:11,13 - the daily [sacrifice], daily [sacrifice] was taken away
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim We wont agree on dates of this event happenening, and that is fine, but I just want the point. So far all verses you are showing me are Sanctuary Message worthy. I want to know what you say is meant when the bible says the Sanctuary shall be cleansed. For me it refers to the Day of Atonement.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
I'm not asking you to agree with me but rather agree with what you can see mentioned in the verses for yourself. This is why I'm pointing directly to the scripture. Just bear with me a moment longer:) Do you see though how both verses and surrounding context discusses the dailies being taken away?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes they discuss the dailies being taken away. I want to know what you think the bible means when it says the Sanctuary shall be cleansed? Daniel 9:26 says that the sanctuary will be destroyed, of course this is the earthly sanctuary in 70 A.D. but yet the bible says that the Sanctuary shall be cleansed 2300 years after the prophecy begins. What does this mean to you?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
If you'll just be patient with me a little while longer, we'll get to that. First I'm trying to establish what we see in the verses before we try to interpret and determine what they mean.
Does Daniel 9:27 state that the dailies are taken away and the abomination is set up in the midst of the 69th week?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Let me quote the passage again:
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the MIDST of the WEEK he shall cause the SACRIFICE and the oblation to CEASE, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Does this show that the sacrifice gets removed in the midst of the week?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes Jesus did die in the midst of the last week of the 70 week prophecy. His ministry was 3 and 1/2 years or prophetic days long. His death caused the sacrifices of animals to cease because of his death (Colossians 2:14). 3 and 1/2 years later or prophetic days, Stephen was stoned and Jesus stood up, signifying that probation for the Jews was over, and the message was then to be spread to the Gentiles (Acts 7:55-60). But answer my question please.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
That's not what I asked...I said did sacrifices stop, and the abomination get set up in the midst of the 69th week? I'm refraining from interpretation at this point until we can establish what the verses are bluntly saying with the words alone.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
I assure you I will get to what the cleansing is referring to, but please allow me to establish a firm base on what we can see. Don't worry I'm not ignoring your question. We'll get ourselves there once we establish a firm foundation together in what we together see the verses to say.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes you are right....
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
According to Daniel 8:13-14, we read of this ceasing of the dailies and the abomination of desolation, and Daniel asks a question, of how long will that occur for. He responded with 2300 days.
This means from the first time we see the ceasing of the dailies and the abomination, it will last for 2300 days. Is that what you see as well?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I need you to get to your point, because now I'm a bit bored. The verse says the Sanctuary will be cleansed in 2300 days. What does this mean. I just need to know what you think this means. After this point I will not answer to anymore of these until this question is answered.
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
To get a better understanding of what the term means you need to first understand what is going on in the verses. You need to look at what is going on, as well as the surrounding context.
I want you to break down the verses, without interpretation, so that you can first determine what is there without preconceived ideas on my part or yours. It's easy for me to say what I think, but then you could say what you think and we'd be no better off. I want you to see what the...
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
verse actually says. I want us to set aside personal interpretation and get to the core of the verses. Since you don't like my method of asking you questions, or breaking them down. I'll post breaking them down myself. Might take me a short bit to do so, but I'll have them posted by tonight I'm hoping.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ok, I'll wait. :-)
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
-part 1-
Let's back up to verse 9...we see a little horn come up...This little horn in verse 11 challenged the prince of the host by cancelling the daily sacrifices, and the truth was cast down(vs) 12.
The little horn, this ruler, as we read in other places will set up a sacrilegious object(9:27), and even declare himself to be God in the temple(2 Thes 2:4). Basically when he cancels the sacrifice, sets up the object, declares himself to be God.....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 2-
, is what would be considered the abomination of desolation which happens midway through the 69th week(dan 9:27).
A question is then asked in Daniel 8:13:
How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? So here they are asking how long the abomination, the ceasing of sacrifices, the actions of the little horn be allowed to continue for......
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 3-
When will the sanctuary be cleansed of the little horns abomination, as shown earlier? This question of how long it will be allowed to continue for is in the next verse
Until two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. It will be cleansed of the defilement performed by the little horn. It has nothing to do with the sins of the confessed being cleansed out of the sanctuary.....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 4-
You need to follow the verses in context. The sanctuary will be cleansed of the abomination of desolation, it will be cleansed of the transgression that was committed when he stopped the dailies.
You take daniel 8:14 and believe the 2300 days ended in 1844, but tell me....? Was the sanctuary cleansed of anything that was mentioned in those verses of Daniel 8:11,12,13,24 in 1844? When did the little horn go up against the prince of princes and when was he broken?....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 5-
What the sanctuary will be cleansed of was mentioned in the verses prior to verse 14, and as you can see it has nothing to do with the confessed sins of the believer, and all to do with the cleansing of the defilement performed by the little horn in the sanctuary.
The little horn will be allowed to defile the sanctuary for 2300 days until his end is decreed upon him and then it will be cleansed of his abominations....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 6-
That chapter is not discussing the defilement of the believers sins in the sanctuary, doesn't even come close. they were asking of how long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the sacrifices. How long will the temple be trampled on by the little horn.
The response was that this would continue for 2300 days and then the temple will be restored. Thatnicekid04, I don't even need to give my interpretation do I? The verses show you it's not talking about our sins.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 7-
It is important for us to only go by what we see, and not completely switch up a verse to mean something else that the surrounding context doesn't teach. Again, the cleansing is the removal of the abominations performed by the little horn, the antichrist, in the sanctuary.
I know that you've been taught that verse means something else, but please my dear, search and see for yourself the answers as are given in scripture. Look at the verse just before verse 14, you answer lies there
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
-part 8-
Thank you so much for the patience you have shown me:) I hope that these comments will be of some help to you. May God bless your sincere and patient heart:)
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim So would you say that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@thatnicekid04
Let's work through one thing at a time:). Would you agree that the cleansing being spoken of in verse 14 is in reference to the defilement spoken of in the verses before?
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Also how were you able to come up with this interpretation, and what church do you go to?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04
In all honesty, what I quoted is just what is given in scripture. This is why I didn't want to just post it myself and get you to break down the verses on your own so you can see that I'm not posting my interpretation. This is what I wanted to avoid by having you see it for yourself.
Verse 14 about "2300 days" was in answer to the question in verse 13. And verse 13 asks how long will the abominations be allowed to continue until the temple is cleansed of them.....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
The actions and/or abominations performed by the little horn are the ones that the temple will be cleansed of. I could tell you what I believed the dailies meant, etc, but I don't need to share my interpretation because the verses alone show that its not referring to the sins of the confessed.
I'm just following the context from when it starts discussing the little horn and his actions to when they will be stopped. My church doesn't speak an awful lot on prophecy, I'm just going by what....
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
I see written and not an interpretation of it.
I attend a non-denominational church in our area. I can't give out the name of one because it gives away the location of the church and I keep my location private online for safety reasons. You never know what kind of people are out there.
I just ask that you read from verse 9 to verse 14 and from verse 23 to 26...if you'll notice at the end of the 2300 days the little horn will be broken that is the end of the prophecy of the little horn.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
Well the end of the prophecy mentioned in that passage anyway.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
But do you see that verse 14 is the conclusion of the verses that came before it? It doesn't suddenly change to mean something else entirely.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim So would you say there is no Sanctuary in Heaven?
thatnicekid04 8 months ago
Comment removed
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Somehow you said so many words, but never answered my question. What's up with that? How do you explain Daniel 12:11-12. Don't both dates end in 1798 and 1843/44 respectively? And would you say that there is a sanctuary in heaven or not?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
They don't end in 1798 or 1843/1844. Those are dates made up by the millerite or adventist movement and not ones given in the bible.
But let's stick with the cleansing of the sanctuary for the moment. Too many directions being taken at once. You wanted me to address the cleansing of the sanctuary, so let's stick with that currently. daniel 8 is the only place that mentioned 2300 days, and its mentioned in reference to the defilement in previous verses...
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
the defilment of the little horn when he takes away the dailies, etc. Or are you going to see fit to change the meaning in verse 14 to something else not even discussed in Daniel 8?
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Comment removed
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
Once we finish addressing daniel 8 and the cleansing discussed there we can move on. I don't want to address the sanctuary in regards to how its a figure of what's in heaven because that is a heavy, deep topic all its own.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Hey can I get a yes or no answer, do you believe that there is a sanctuary in heaven?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
The bible speaks of the veil that separates the holy place and the most holy place in the earthly tabernacle. What does that veil represent? The answer to that question will share with you as to whether there is a literal replica in heaven, or whether it is more figurative speaking.
I'm curious to your response now about Dan 8:14, do you see how the cleansing of the sanctuary is speaking of the removal of the defilement performed by the little horn in earlier verses?
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
If you have any questions about it, don't hesitate to ask, but we do have to accept the context in which it is given, and while you have been taught it has to do with the removal of the sins of the confessed, that is not the context given in that chapter.
It's important to go by the bible and not what any man teaches you. Please search the chapter.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Was that a yes or a no? Is there a Sanctuary in Heaven? It's like pulling teeth...
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
Why do you keep bypassing what I say and moving on to next topic? Trying to get you to admit that the cleansing you thought was speaking of the "cleansing of the sins of the confessed out of the heavenly sanctuary" was in fact not talking about that at all.
You wanted me to discuss what the cleansing in that verse meant, and now you want to avoid it after I've discussed it? Is there a reason for that? Let's first finish this and then I will address the next sanctuary topic.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
If you want me to consider your questions, please consider mine and let's finish discussing one thing before we enter into another.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Myhopeisinhim I believe everything that you are saying. I just want a yes or no answer. Do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Hi. I didn't get an answer yet. Was that a yes or a no? And how have you been?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
I will be happy to answer more questions, once you address issues already raised:) You pushed me for an answer in regards to cleansing of the sanctuary, let's stick to that topic for now as mentioned in Daniel 8 and what it speaks of there.
After that I'll be happy to discuss what I believe in regards to whether there is a sanctuary in heaven.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ok, what more do we need to discuss before I get a yes or a no? Do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
We discussed Daniel 8 in context, and the question that existed of how long the defilements of the little horn would be allowed to pollute the sanctuary which was answered in verse 14. Can you admit that in the context given in chapter 8 that the 2300 days is not referring to the sin of the confessed, but rather the defilement of the little horn?
I want us to pin down the context before we move on.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yeah it's pinned down. Now do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven, Yes or No?
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
@thatnicekid04
What's pinned down? Do you agree with what I've said, or do you think that it is still referring to the cleansing of the sins of the confessed in heaven which apparently started in 1844 even though the verse and the surrounding context says otherwise?
Once you elaborate on this, I will share with you the answer you are looking for.
Myhopeisinhim 7 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I agree with EVERYTHING you said. I just want to know yes or no, do you believe that there is a Sanctuary in Heaven.
thatnicekid04 7 months ago
....when the dailies cease. This is something that is often missed. No one seems to notice that the 2300 days starts when the dailies cease, and the dailies don't cease until the midst of the 69th week.
Myhopeisinhim 8 months ago
@thatnicekid04 Your interested in things you don't understand, I see your tied up on questionable things yet you havent even done the basic things that will lead you to salvation. romans 10:9 says confess the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart, this is the first step then you shall be saved, the H/S shall lead you into all truths. He will teach you whats rite from wrong.
MyBountykilla 1 month ago