Resolved Documentary

[cruelshark]

Cramming point looks ugly when compared to talking sense with perfect pauses to make sure people understand what they are talking about. Debating ability is looked by many as stepping stone for a political or legal career. If one of these debaters were to speak in the same way in a court or in front of an electorate then they would never succeed.

[lightin36]

@cruelshark Actually it helps you speak much better than before since your forced to try to make your speech sound great while speaking at an extremely fast pace. And it also makes your speaking extrmeely clear.

[aniytlia]

haha, met matt and had alejandres as a lab leader XD

[V61Sunda]

@aniytlia Matt and Sam both went/debated for my school... their really cool

[5ch3nk]

de·bate/diˈbāt/

Noun: A formal discussion on a particular topic in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward.

not shouting out a bunch of bull shit you think is right as fast as humanly possible.

[misterbrghtside1]

@5ch3nk

Don't knock it until you try it.

[linkedbythecloud]

On a completely different note than most of these comments, the guy at 0:50 was one of my lab leaders last summer.

[TheFningrandomty]

@linkedbythecloud I knew him last summer! I love JR!

[Mrcoolman2009]

Wow. They prevalence of downing comments make me sad. I debate LD, but do so in a policy way. I have read critical literature, expanded the scope of my mind, an joined a great community because of debate. Those that are 'sad' for us because thats 'not' public speaking, are the ones who are I'll informed. I will put this out here. Anyone who thinks that jargon-filled, 450 wpm debate does nothing for argumentation or 'real' public speaking, I will debate you. If you win I will pay you $100. I am

[TheSuicidalUnicorns]

@soonergaret

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. They are not debating for an audience, so it doesn't matter if normal people can understand. What matters is getting deep into the topic and making the best points. The only reason political debates aren't held this way is because all citizens have to understand what's going on, and like they said, most people can't. LD debate is practiced slower, but is still faster than political debates too. When it only matters if a judge can

[TheSuicidalUnicorns]

One comment which irritated me was someone saying that this documentary was meant to mock the cx spreading speed. Have you even seen the movie? The focus on speed is more of a hook for people who don't know about debate- the actual documentary is following two schools in their attempt to get to nationals. The movie is, in the end, encouraging debate and the benefits that come along with it, not to make fun of people speaking fast. Thanks!

[JVPC13]

@SexiiCookie94

We have the same basic idea at my school for the state I'm in. Were not really stock issues type of people. But even with off-case arguments, as long as you have the basic idea of what they are and you have a good strat. You can beat any of those spread teams. We beat spread teams at our Qualifying tournament every year with just a good strat.

[hamstergeddon911]

I do LD, which (at least in my circuit) speakers take the time to slow down and actually try to persuade an audience. I've found that when people slow down and focus more on the actual depth and quality of the arguments rather than breadth and quantity. I think you'll find that someone who can regurgitate the most information and numbers on a given topic is not necessarily the most well informed.

[CivilEscape]

@hamstergeddon911 When I was in high school I did LD as well. This kind of policy is fucking ridiculous. "Blah blah blah gasp gasp blah blah."

[itssosarahh]

you guys that are saying this form of debate is stupid have clearly NEVER SEEN A FULL ROUND. before you start to kick it down why don't you get your facts straight.

we don't 'spew information' and its not just voted on who can talk faster. what judge gives a shit if you can talk fast but can't make connections or think about what you're arguing? plenty of thinking and persuading is done.

and there is dialogue- crossex, responded arguments, etc.

it's not just a bunch of kids reading words.

[xoxoitsjen]

...has anyone heard of spread? really? you don't speed read as an intimidation tactic, you speed read to fit in as much evidence as possible. i always assumed that was just common sense.

[hamstergeddon911]

Also, this documentary was definitely mocking you CX speeders. In case none of you picked up on that....

[hamstergeddon911]

What a bunch of faggots. This is why CX is dying here in Colorado. What a fucking disgrace to debate. I thought the point was to try to persuade an audience. Imagine if a Presidential candidate gave speeches like this. Fucking disgrace...

[TesseractDigital]

@hamstergeddon911 A Presidential candidate would not give a speech like this because the American public does not give a rat's ass about evidence or logic. They just like to pick the charismatic guy.

The purpose of competitive interscholastic debate is education. However, the slower a speech is given, the less that will be said. As long as all parties (the judge, the debaters, and the educated audience) can understand what is being said, faster is better.

[amybw89]

for you guys who've never done competitive debate, it is based on the British Parliament where they have speakers come up one at a time and rebut each other. It is very complicated. There are even different positions (affirmative: prime minister and member of government, affirmative: leader of opposition, member of opposition).

And the reason why they speak so fast is to address all their opponents' arguments and also talk about their arguments

[ThatDudeWhoSkates]

@amybw89 That is parli dude. Everything you said is about a different form of debate than the one that this documentary is based off of. Excluding your last sentence.

The "different positions" of Policy are who gives what speech. As in "Jackson is a 2AC and therefore a 2AR, while his partner is the 1AC and the 2AR".

[fastfuriousfingers]

"THEY'RE USING THE FRICKEN UN!"

[LionessofLuv]

This shit is so fuckin awful. You do NOT need to talk super fast...in order to debate...Who the fuck came up with this dumb shit? I feel so sorry for these kids, cause obviously they don't know any better. Just because you can talk faster than your opponent, it doesn't make you the better debater

[TesseractDigital]

@LionessofLuv the point of going faster is so you can include more evidence.

You claim that you don't need to talk super fast. But that means that you won't get to say as much within your time limit.

Talking faster than the other debater doesn't make you better. I can say the word "penis" 2000 times in an 8 minute speech, but that won't win me the debate. What will win me the debate is having 2000 words worth of solid evidence for my case.

[bigbuggie5]

I always thought debate would have dialogue between the two.

[someguythesecond]

debate is like a picasso anyone who looks at it at first could easily say this is stupid and a lot of people will likely agree with that person. the truth is though the more you look at and study that picasso the more of a masterpiece you see it to be. there will always be people who dislike debate but i bet those people have never taken the right amount of time to get to know it. to me debate is like an art or even a game of chess. i hope others try to see it that way:)

[bennettm333]

This is the dumbest form of debate I have seen in my entire life. Only idiots would vote for someone who debate like this. If someone wins doing this style it is only because they have been fooled into believing that this is a higher form of logic. In reality this is simply an attempt to spew information in the hope that you win. No skill you will be able to use anywhere else in life is gained here and it has no educational value. I hope this is a joke.

[AIAEntertainment]

@bennettm333 It's not a joke. It's about logic. But I suppose your post shows you're not too hot on that.

[bennettm333]

@AIAEntertainment Any logic they are using loses its value because of the speed with which they talk. Packing your speech with information does not make it necessarily better. Simply a few well thought out examples are enough for most things. Beyond that, any turn of phrase or public speaking skill is denied in this type of debating because a judge seems to be willing to vote for this garbage. It isn't something that has any practical application, something education should be striving for.

[dylarmage]

@bennettm333

That's an ill informed thought. The use of speed is not always considered to be a measure of how many examples that can be listed but rather leads to the ability to of those in the debate to examine many points and perspectives of an issue at the same time. These same sort of debates over issues would normally take place over at least several days but in these cases are reduced to minutes. Assuming a role play, you would not expect a major policy to be decided over one aspect

[misterbrghtside1]

@bennettm333

We talk faster than you because we think faster than you. Sorry you're too stupid to participate.

[KrnPride032]

@bennettm333 LOLL you are truly ignorant

why does a sprinter try to run faster and faster instead of working on his bodily form?

or quarterback look for the quickest and most efficient way to execute a play?

the reason is bc they are both pressured by time

and in policy debate you are pressured by time, you don't sacrifice quality for quantity, you just step the quantity up on the same level to raise efficiency

just bc you don't understand it doesn't mean its stupid

[bennettm333]

@KrnPride032 Metaphors, the lowest form argument. Does a sprinter move his legs so fast that they trip over each other? No, he moves them in ways which send him in the desired direction. That's not what they're doing. They're talking so fast that any sophisticated idea would be lost. Does a quarterback throw the ball before a receiver is there? No, he takes his time and tries to throw the nicest ball he can so it can be caught. Like talking normally or even with some flair from time to time.

[dockcurrie]

baseball does suck.

[soonergaret]

If this method of debate is mainly an exercise in quick thinking then so be it, but as a form of an acceptable debate, based on accepted behavior and social norms, this does more disservice than service to these youngsters as they progress in their lives.

[hankpin]

Its not only accepted, its ENCOURAGED.

Spreading orginated in policy debate, but now has made its way into LD, PoFo, and other forms as well...

Of course, National Forensic League discourages this, but in circus invitationals, "spreading" has become the norm.

[soonergaret]

@hankpin So be it........it still remains one of the more ridiculous documentaries I have scene in a long time, and I have seen thousands of documentaries. It does not impress me one bit, but obviously these people are sharp and intelligent, but this form of debate is mostly just very, very, very strange.

[birthmarkslaya826]

just because you cannot understand what they are saying does not make it "strange and awkward".

[ganixaba]

@soonergaret

it also teaches them to be a lot smarter than the dumbasses who "debate" in congress

[soonergaret]

Am I the only one who thinks this is extremely strange and most awkward? When I saw this documentary, I could not believe that debates are conducted in this way!

It's otherwise normal, intelligent people debating like they have tourette syndrome! This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in my life......PERIOD.

Other than guidos wearing capri-pants, but a close second none the less.

[H3nry7h3h3n]

This is why I don't do Policy debate.

and btw, this isn't spreading. This is speaking fast. Spreading is MUCH faster.

[pianopinkandgreen]

My best friend and I recently started a debate club at our school--this really helps. Thanks!!

[Mottahead]

Black people have always been able to debate. From rebel slaves who were able to gather sympathizers for their cause (one needs only to read some American History to see this), to Martin Luther King, Malcolm X (and obviouslly many others of their time), to musicians , to rappers nowadays, blacks have always been able to convey their message and get adherents to their cause.

And suck this : RAPPERS (even if one hates their tunes or their message) ARE HEARD BY THE MASSES.

[policyguy224]

to bad [mainstream[ Rappers aren't spreading any legitmate messages, even while siffnificant (sp) racism is happening.

The revolutionary edge of Rap died the second someone said "SKEET SKEET" on the track

[demonking07024]

its not that they dont debate. I debate in Georgia where there are plenty of black debaters, its just that there are virtually none in policy debate. Policy debate, out of all categories of debate, require the most work. Unlike others that may focus on certain types of argument and cases, policy is a mix of both worldy, and theory debate which is delivered rapidly so it fosters development of the mind more than any other type of high school debate, and so it is ashamed not to see blacks in it,

[angelbeta]

Or Latinos

[demonking07024]

@angelbeta there are actually quite a few that i have come across and especially the girls are really good at spreading :D! azns usually suck though haha

[angelbeta]

Well, I'm coming from a different perspective: college debate. I did college debate for 4 years and noticed there were less Latino debaters in the tournaments I competed in. There were even less Latinos than asian or black people at most tournaments. There is a large black population in Georgia; so I can see what you're saying. I debated across the nation and in several other countries.

[AnotherConfederate]

Same here. There are daily arguments between the two sides.

Policy always wins

[DATNi66ARAY]

put them all in a nut house and keep them all there

[policyguy224]

the one thing i find really funny from this movie and the message the Jordan kids tried to spread, is that that form of debating is now becoming just another "style" that is argued and no one really cares about it anymore

[demonking07024]

lol the dude in the snowbard hat at 0:19 is cute :) i love policy ^^ but i lost at state ._.

PS. to those teams on there...offcase much?... USE MORE ONCASE!

[birthmarkslaya26]

recently, national circuit LD is just turning into bad policy, if you ask me

[wonmnky]

yeah but they didnt win there was wayyy to many flaws in that arg.

[msolice]

We hit these guys at the Harvard TOC, and my partner and I are both traditional, white, suburban girls, so they ran the like "rap aff" or whatever, and we did like, theory, T resolved, T colon, and and incintives K, with some random da, and they ran, in response, that since we had spread none of our arguments should be weighed in the round, because since they were black they had big lips and can't spread

it was so stupid, and we won the theory argument because are judge was straight up policy :)

[wonmnky]

but if you have seen the actual documentry the african boys actually debate, debate itself its pretty interesting

[Reminiscable]

Why do they try talking fast, and then make the exaggeratedly-speedy inhalations?

Wouldn't it be more civilized to talk more slowly?

[cesarconsejero]

It seems no one understand the irony behind  words anymore...

[cesarconsejero]

The stupidness of "spread"

[birthmarkslaya26]

the stupidity of the word "stupidness"

dumbass.

[dockcurrie]

No, really 'the spread' is the dumbest thing imaginable. It trains these people to be ostensibly incomprehensible.

[iamthemewow]

I don't know why no one teaches these debators word economy so they can start saying more in less time.

[zonerockz]

dumb ass. that's called efficiency, say more with less. word economy is your ability to not use the same words, use different words, and be creative with the way you use them.

[Elijah4President]

SOVERN POWER!!! haha

[Nightmonkey17]

3:43 I like how Plato and Aristotle are in the audience.

Debate is cool but the spreading really needs to be toned down some. There should be a limit on how much you can do it.

[theshaggg]

A well rounded debater can fit a lot into their speeches and still mantain a persuasive air.

[mydogdaisy1212]

@theshaggg Ok do that then lose, this movie is about them trying to do that and then losing. Nice though

[birthmarkslaya26]

what are they going to do? do a test right before your respective speech to see your wpm and ask you to "tone it down a bit" if you're going faster than 250 wpm??

spreading increases the amount of information you can say in the allotted time. thus its more educational and better than just speaking "persuasively"

[reillyinfamous]

no brightline

[dockcurrie]

Spreading is a perversion of oratory. It is neither more educational nor better.

[birthmarkslaya826]

of course it's more educational, dumbass. comments like these are equivalent to watching baseball for the first time and being like "fuck i don't get the rules, this game must suck"

[DontKicktheBrit]

Ah policy debate. I miss it...and yet I don't. It was so stressful. (I literally have gray hairs T.T) But it was two years well spent; I don't regret a minute of it because I learned more about how to think in that class than all my other ones combined. And I still use my flowing shorthand, haha. Go PorNo! ^^

[444DeanMachine]

I miss policy debate :(

policy is awesome go Capital high school Boise ID.

[reillyinfamous]

idaho sucks.

pretty hard.

[PLANc1990]

Spreading is pretty fucking dumb

[reillyinfamous]

no its not you fucking idiot

if you know how to spread and debate spread you end up having a deeper and better debate

[calebjohnngoh]

Spreading is REATARDED! what happened to classical debate?!

[birthmarkslaya26]

LD IS BETTER THAN POLICY!!!

[nKhid]

nobody cares reillyinfamous....

[reillyinfamous]

uuhhh why are you posting a comment then.

if you dont care,

?

[birthmarkslaya26]

yeah lmao...when i saw this right after i started debate i was like...omg this is awesome..but now it looks mad slow and i just ended my 1st year

[reillyinfamous]

haah i know

im in my fourth year

lol

where do u debate?

u have cross-x?

[birthmarkslaya26]

bronx science, yes we have cx, but im in LD cuz its so much better.

[reillyinfamous]

i now disown you.

ld?

much better?

wtf is wwrong with you.

[AIAEntertainment]

@reillyinfamous You obviously don't know how to debate or our jealous of their success.

[1019079]

@reillyinfamous He knew he would get to it in time. You're calling somebody a novice because you don't like the roadmap? Is that what you do in a debate round? Don't vote for them, their order is wrong?

[reillyinfamous]

@1019079 sorry, i posted that like forever ago...I imagine he was kicking the politics da maybe? idk, this movie was horrible, btw.

[laxlaxloo]

Wow, do you think they are just talking fast for fun? In policy debate, you have to talk very fast in the cross examination so you can address each point the opposition has made. Kids bring in tubs and tubs of evidence they plan on reading.

Policy debate is very hard and I doubt any of you would ever succeed at it.

Debate isn't just arguing about a silly topic, trust me.

[reillyinfamous]

ummm any of you?

i think i succeed at the activity, and cross examination isnt spread, its the speeches. cross-x is like a break from all the spreading. ahah

[birthmarkslaya26]

where do you debate?

[reillyinfamous]

AZ.

keepin it fresh

[reyandrade]

Where can I get a copy of this documentary for my debate team? Can someone send me a link? I would be very grateful.

[Keldroc]

This is ridiculous. I can't even understand half of what they're saying. Debate is about making your points and expressing your side convincingly and eloquently. It's not about doing your best impression of the Micro Machines guy.

[liberal185]

Not anymore!

[laxlaxloo]

If you knew anything about debate, you would know that this was policy debate.

I can see you weren't on a debate team...

[birthmarkslaya26]

i smell a troll

[dockcurrie]

Agreed.

[loner0708]

1:05-1:06..

that was freaking hilarious when heard

on television....chet!!rofl

[loner0708]

phew...thank god i saw this documentary here..

i fell asleep in class...

[1undeadwarr]

stupid.. debating doesnt solve anything.. money and favors do.. comprimisin.. given somethin up gettin somethin u want just ask any politician.. facts are always there.. but that doesnt end debatin.. and speakin faster.. is only good for laughin at them.. i feel bad that they take it so seriously.. until u start seein the prez canidates do this.. then not bein understood by 90 percent of the ppl.. wont matter.. id take eliquent and precise anyday to jargon... i got this off of fbhw show.. hehe

[Audioman45]

Kaboobie.

[Audioman45]

I'm told they speak super fast so that they can get more points into the timeframe. They argue that the important thing is the research behind their points. -- Okay, whatever you do, don't expand the amount of time allowed so that you can speak at a normal pace. Research skills are good, but you definitely do NOT want to work on presentation skills, right? Nor would you EVER want to have more people interested in debate by presenting in a way that outsiders can understand it and get into it.

[birthmarkslaya26]

you clearly have no understanding of how debate tournaments work. They usually run from fri-sat or fri-sun, with about 6 prelims and then elimination rounds. there are over 100 debaters and one debate takes about 45 minutes. everyone wants to end the tournament asap and no one wants to drag the tournament longer than it already is. increasing the time would not only put the tournament tabulation under a shitload of pressure, but everyone else as well

[ireallydontcare3384]

i know someone who was in this.

he won.

[jdo6969]

think that makes you better than other people speak English people might come back to debate

[omicronx9]

this is why you fags will never get laid.

[kellyrbrill]

Fuck you.

Seriously.

You're probably some ass hole kid who knows absolutely nothing about ANYTHING. Sweety, don't be jealous because you know they're smarter than you could even dream of being.

Keep your mouth shout. You don't know what you're talking about.

[bdawgy0]

I object strongly to the use of the word "fag."

I also object to "getting laid" as a standard of success.

That said, omicronx9 definitely has a point.

[leeemo]

Hm, I would be interested to see omicronx9 go into a debate round with his 'Policy debate is for faggots Kritik'

[Lobos222]

Debate dogma.

I though public debates where to try to convince the audience, not too "win" against the person you where debating. Most often people you debate in this manner are locked in there views anyway and you would gain much more from convincing the audience. I know this is a contest debate, but my point is they cant use these skills they have in a real debate because they would just alienate the audience.

[shesaidsomething]

Are you kidding me? This is debate not a cow auction. Ultimately someone needs to ask themselves what is the point? Unless you are training young people to increase, exponentially, their processing skills why the hell would you employ this "spread" on meth method.

[HawjPawj]

Because being able to have a more thorough, in-depth, and stimulating debate is the real value of debate. You can talk pretty all you want, but if you don't have intelligent arguments to back up what you're saying, no one really gives a shit.

[killwhitey88d]

so gay, go black kids

[har29vick3]

what a bunch of douchebags

[mizNRG]

I can't even understand what the hell these kids are saying. What is the purpose of talking so fast?

[birthmarkslaya26]

its cuz ofhow debate tournaments work. They usually run from fri-sat or fri-sun, with about 6 prelims and then elimination rounds. there are over 100 debaters and one debate takes about 45 minutes. everyone wants to end the tournament asap and no one wants to drag the tournament longer than it already is. increasing the time would not only put the tournament tabulation under a shitload of pressure, but everyone else as well. hell, if the speeches arent timed, i wouldnt go fast either

[policyguy224]

45 minutes?

i'm always shooting for an hour and half

[birthmarkslaya26]

i'm in LD :(

yeah it's just shaping up to be fake policy

[zombielynx21]

I did Lincoln/Douglas Debate in High School for a bit and someone asked why we weren't trying to be super fast and the teacher said "Because this isn't policy debate."

This video makes me ridiculously happy that it was that way. Arguments shouldn't be judged by volume, but by quality.

[ganixaba]

@zombielynx21 volume helps with quality

[Elijah4President]

@zombielynx21 Fuck off bigot.

[Develop1]

This is idiocy.

[o00o0o0o0o0o]

HAAHHAHAHAHAaa nice

[Kyoober]

What is the point to go this fast?

[kives1985]

How the fuck are you suppose to debate the negative when they do that?

When I participated in my high school debate, the kids were no where near that fast.

[hemihead202]

ahahaha fuckin nerds

[Joebobway2]

Wow. That's pretty amazing.

FB&HW ROCK!!!!

[airgumbee]

does anyone know where i can watch this movie

[Pooobaihr23]

EH?

[anendlesswaltz]

Death Cab For Cutie - Transatlanticism

and explosions in the sky-your hand on mine

p.s debate is hard :P

these kids can be laywers

[paleheroes]

Death Cab for Cutie- Transatlanticism. Pretty awesome song...downloaded it once I figured it out.

[EllisK2]

does anyone know for sure if the two Jordan kids are enrolled at Louisville and Cal State Fullerton.

[stuffruff]

this is not debate. this is fucktart talk

[scotteeee2hottie21]

Just watched this movie today and found the Jordan kids to be intriguing, as I don't like the spread method. On the other hand, had these kids been prepared they could have easily beaten the Jordan kids' argument every time. They argued that debate was racist and required tons of money, yet anybody thinking hard enough would have realized that they could have pointed out Jordan's success without these things to undo them every time.

[AWESOM094]

does anybody have the titles of all the songs from this movie?

[anendlesswaltz]

hi i know two songs

[anendlesswaltz]

your hand on mine-explosions in the sky---Death Cab For Cutie - Transatlanticism.

the other songs i have no clue.....but check the end credits they may be there.

[firstube]

the jordan kids rule. the "spread" method is hella lame as a key point to debate is being able to understand what the person is saying..not uhhh uhhhh words words uhhhhhh words words uhhhhhh....anyway i liked the documentary.

[chillzkid]

Richard and Louis were Awesome!

[stayfresh06]

Jordan sucks...and i should know because i went there...Congrats richard and louis

[liberal185]

i have to say, this really was a good doc.

it just shows that side of debate that its such a superior activity compared to pretty much everything else and the end....well, the LBJordan thing, just such an awesome story, such a shame their program got cut. that and Sam is pretty down, he debates at Redlands now,

[Oenone]

It seems as though no matter what constrictions are put on debate, it always gravitates to the style mentioned in this video, and that's unfortunate for Lincoln-Douglas debaters like me that chose LD to avoid styles like this. I mean, don't get me wrong, Policy (CX) definitely has merit, and requires incredible skill, but, it's unfortunate that logic and actual speaking talent always takes a back seat to ways to win.

[BirthmARKsLAYer826]

lol ld is better btw

[BirthmARKsLAYer826]

lol wth one of the remaining audience members were aristotle and plato

[marialumena]

i had forgotten how absurd these debates sounded as people tried to cram in so much info in the 8 minutes alotted...annoying spread debating...remember Unger of Georgetown?

[windowseat101]

Does anyone know when this is coming to DVD?

[repetitive]

This NEEDS to come out on DVD ASAP.

[swimchickslam]

no lie no lie! (:

[octavianmandrake]

dood i feel so non-unique right now i really wanna watch this movie

[ghettoshorty2nv]

WOW!!! i debated the end of last year and the begining of this school year... scary how it actually works... so0 excited, but a little scared lol ggggggrrrrrr... dying to see the documentary

[hongkongfui923]

was that global gag rule? :]

[missthatcher]

This debate style is totaly different in comparison with the European debate style. We work a lot more on persuasion :)

Really would like to see full legth movie :D

[swimchickslam]

I SEE JR!

[asianperson10101]

oh my i cant wait for this. i just got done with my first year of debate and debate camp GDI! i am excited

[nevertooblonde]

I really want to see the full-length doc...

[cp2g2b]

looking back at it, policy debate was light weight hard. but its was hella fun. spreading, i miss people reading that fast.

[barclaybbburns]

Amazing!