you are the most irrational person.Ayn Rand believed strongly in a government structure that had certain ground rules in mind.That is the basic rules that are derived from individual rights the right to life,freedom and ownership of one's own property.Now capitalism fundamentally is a economic system but it's corollary is a political system.A political and economic system are very much connected by the law of causality.
Nice title! It is amazing to hear that Free Trade is destroying our economy when it doesn't exist. NAFTA isn't free trade, it is managed trade between three countries. Subsidizing exports for political purposes is not free trade, its robbing the treasury . Imposing tariffs on imports to crush competitors is not free trade. High taxes causing jobs to export overseas isn't free trade. Halting companies from coming to our shores, competing for lower prices, and creating jobs is not free trade.
This guy has no clue what he is talking about. The United States follows Keynesian economics. John Maynard Keynes's Macroeconomic theory promotes interventionist economic policy. Everything the Fed does follows this economic theory. This theory is drastically different from Free Market Economics. The "Free Trade" this guy talks about is NAFTA which is actually managed trade. Nothing in this video has even a grain of truth to it.
(continued) I watched from 2001-2006, US ARMY Newspaper had 2-4 pages of MOS's under 'stop-loss' (you are not allowed to leave regardless of contract agreements). Recruiters were offering 25K to people enlisting in Infantry. Re-enlistment bonus's were available. Basic trainies would blantanly fake injuries to get the hell out at a 70% of those going to the hospital for exams. Late 2006, bonus's were being reduced, offered less, and % of crybaby trainies decrease dramatically (next post)
DEM's would apple to more people if you were not giving everything away to minorities and not making them earn their way in life like everyone else. It is evil, you either have to be a cold heartless evil capitalist pig REP, or a gay ass minority loving liberal retard. there is no party for working people in the USA. Affirmative action make me sick, and if you attack and kill my people this way I can never support you no mater what.
Ayn Rand - actually used America to pay for her cancer treatment and all of her medical bills. Yeh the russian whore had government healthcare paid for by the socialist tax payers of America - SO FUCK YOU RAND DOODLE HEADS FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU AGAIN
@TheLibertarianzye Whose modern society? We've got several tiers. The millions and millions of starving peasants who live in the mud & shack villages surrounding the billionaires' "free trade" sweatshops wish to speak with you about these "benefits" they've never seen.
oh yea what do you do when the referee is bribed or belongs to the city of one of the teams? Please, don't compare a football game with a market. you can compare a classroom to a market but not a football game with a market.
Because in markets its [win-win.]
In a game its [1. lose-win] OR [2. no win- no win.]
Market in most scenarios tends to benefit both parties over a transaction.
FYI : There is no country in the world that practices a proper free trade. Although majority of the world is run under a capitalist system. in terms of science, you my friend are lacking evidence in what you say.
I think the real problem you should look at is protectionism. The idea of making things on your own land or land development for wealth is known to be a theory called Physiocratism, that my friend proved to be a disappointment long time back.
Comparative advantage can't work. And it's moronic to try to debate the point that it can. The problem is inequality of currency, cost of living and cost of production. These are things that import duties are intended to level out in order to protect the market from subversion. Free trade is essentially what King George used to undermine the colonial economy. We went to war to put an end to that and become a free nation. The founders would call it treason. Globalists call it free trade.
*Facepalm*. This guy hasn't done his research. At all. Everything the government does is backed up by force. Don't hand over your rightfully obtained property, men with guns come to your house to kidnap you. Try to defend yourself and you get murdered. This is not justifiable under any circumstances. What statists have trouble comprehending is that people can solve problems all by themselves and without violating peoples rights.
I agree! Free trade is killing America. We have a service based economy. Unless our representatives we voted in stop Free Trade and make it Equal Trade our economy will continue to collapse. Think of it this way. Take four tables and put an equal amount of money on all tables. Have one table trade @ 10:1, another 5:1, another 2:1 and then you have table #4 which is America. We are the One. How fast is the money going to dwindle. There goes our economy.
@fredk3rd, ok. What happens when you send an American dollar overseas? Some countries use USD, but for the most part it will get traded for their own currency to someone that wants to buy products from America. It's an observable fact that whenever imports are reduced exports are reduced proportionally. The oppisite is also true. By producing the things we are best at producing and trading them for things they are best at producing, everyone is better off.
@bonfirejovi I suggest you read The _Tradition of Free Trade_ by Lars Magnusson. You will learn a lot about what Adam Smith really said and what he did not say.
0m 34s "...in er, eight-what nineteen, what was it, eighteen? The Russian Revolution? Whenever the Russian Revolution was."
I find it very difficult to take seriously the desultory ramblings of a man who presumes to lecture on economics, politics and history when he DOES NOT KNOW WHEN OR IN WHICH CENTURY THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION TOOK PLACE.
Dude you have to understand that the government in the US is run by banks, oil companies and British Oligarchy. It will take a revolution for a change but thats not going to happen, people are useless for the most part. Too much tv, propaganda, and traitors.
@Rustyshackleford08 (CONTINUED page 3) Listing of stop-loss began decreasing, even though troop levels increased in the middle east. In 2007 only 15% of trainies wanted any excuse to get out. I met someone with a FRACTURED C-SPINE from a car accident months before starting basic, and he was fine till combatives and it was re-injured. He was in tears because this was his LAST chance to provide for his family. People with surgically reconstructed knees trying to make it went up 300% (next post)
@Rustyshackleford08 Right now bonuses for enlisting, extremely rare, bonuses for re-enlisting even more rare. Recruiters now have the luxuary of turning down sub-optimal recruits, when in 2004-2005 you could have 2 broken bones in your body and still get approved to go to basic. I have to deal with grown men, in tears, when they get severely injuried because their family and them will be homless if med-boarded. This is only a scratch of the surface and is why I HATE BUSH/CHENEY/ REPUBLICANS.
@Rustyshackleford08 I take it your upset about our economic decline! Everything you listed is NOT the primary cause. (Lets see if this user name is terminated) Our economic crash was done ON PURPOSE! Shocking, but sadly true. Bush had to make a decision, either re-ignite the draft fire or crash economy giving people who want to provide for their family a choice, homeless or enlist. I work at MACH at fort benning georgia, from 2001-2006 and I was beside myself when I realized this (next post)
Man how brainwashed you are. In Europe banks also screw up societies. This "stimulation" packets are financed by credits contracted in banks. And soon Europe will crash as well as USA and other socialistic countries dependent on fiat money.
what's going on isn't free trade. trade is incredibly slanted against US markets. then the video failed to mention how politically-powerful labor unions and regulations of industry are adding tremendous costs... this is anti-American trade, there is no such thing as free trade today
Since WWII the US was an independent, productive, world power, first in space, finance, industrial production, medicine, science, and education and we could feed the world. We had 2000mph computer guided planes and commercial jet aircraft by 1958. We invented air conditioning, TV, microwave ovens, mobile phones, pocket calculators, supersonic aircraft, digital computers, nuclear submarines, the laser, integrated circuits, heart transplants, compact discs and the internet, Then came free trade.
@22popuser Number one, most of the technology you just named would not have been possible without the defection of foreign scientists from Germany and Russia that worked or had their work contribute to almost all of the products. Number two, the resources that were required for almost all of those products came from trade from other nations! Would any of them have been possible without trading for what we needed?
We still lead the world in new technology in almost all of those fields, none oft hat is going to go away and any protectionist you ask is going to say the real problem is the loss of manufacturing jobs to nations in Asia, which in fact is not a problem because the price of clothing has gone down and it encourages Americans to get training in more productive fields.
Like I said, it's transitioning from horses and buggy's to cars, people were put out of work and morons like you would have said that came at too high a cost, but it was more efficient to use cars over horses even if that required a transitioning process. If you disagree with me, sell your fucking car and bu ya horse and use a candle and live in a fucking cave you god damned hypocrite....
@EricPNeuman Stop the name calling and profanity- think! America was a great INDEPENDENT free nation. We didn't have millions of containers filled with foreign products landing on our shores we made the stuff. Stores were filled with products made in the USA from our resources. Now we export our resources, sell our infrastructure to INVESTORS, and export our technology and our mfr'g and service sector jobs. We are broke, unemployed and in debt. Globalists have no flag, they salute their wallets!
@22popuser How the hell an idiot like you can be a member of the constitutional party is beyond me. Listen very carefully: There has NEVER EVER been a time when we did not trade and simply made all of our own products and there has never been a time frame when we have been involved in the completely same industries period. No nation that makes everything itself has been prosperous, what nation came closest to that: the USSR and it failed miserably.
@EricPNeuman The Constitution is protectionist of our RIGHTS. Allowing CEOs to move US high tech plants offshore and manufacture in third world countries with cheap land & construction costs, no codes, no pollution concerns, and slave labor with no rights, to compete duty free with American companies who pay first world costs of land, construction, environment and labor is SUICIDE. We wont trade away our middle class lifestyle for a 10 x 10 dirt floor shack working 60 hrs a week for $2/hr.
@EricPNeuman Really? Answer this, how did America become so powerful, so wealthy, and so economically industrious, that we could simultaneously rebuild Japan, and Europe after WW2? Because of what 22popuser said. We had an industrial independence unscathed by the devastation of the war.
@EricPNeuman People have to work and earn enough to support their economies. Unionization made huge gains during the 40's up until the 70's. That's when America finally got a true middle class, and saw prosperity. (Save the early reccessions seen during Vietnam and the 70's, which was because of early outsourcing)
@EricPNeuman Once we rebuilt Europe and Japan, since they were economically "starting over", we began outsourcing to them in the 50's. Do you think America rebuilt everyone for free? Nope. Enter the IMF, and making the dollar the world reserve currency...creating demand for the dollar independent of our economy.
@EricPNeuman That's what hid our economic outsourcing and trade deficits for so long. Building up other nations with our outsourcing, they still needed dollars to trade with us and each other. Once it was obvious the damage from outsourcing was outstripping the ability to hide it in our economy, Nixon did the only thing left to continue the policy. Remove the gold standard, so we could inflate the currency, expand credit, and fuel this thing some more. 40 years later, now we're up against a wall
@EricPNeuman But since people only study the "nice, neat, feel good edited" versions of American History, it's understandable they wouldn't see the dark side of American capitalism. As selfish winner take all kind, not one based off of the "Judeo-Christian" values we claim as our own. E.G. not letting 3 million Africans and countless Indians enjoy the "freedom" our Constitution promised. Or the child labor issues. Or the "company stores" for the poor miners, sharecropping...I could go on & on.
@EricPNeuman That was more than made up with auto manufacturing jobs, and everything related to it. Done by Americans. Surely you can see that. Nothing or too little has replaced all the millions of jobs lost when clothing, textiles, manufacturing of appliances (indoor and outdoor), furniture, housewares (dishes, silverware, etc), lightbulbs, not to mention more of our food is coming from elsewhere. When electronics started in the 70's, it to was made here. So it helped make up for the losses..
@EricPNeuman ..but even that got outsourced. Then customer service departments for these companies got outsourced. Tech lines got outsourced. Now I read in the paper (Wash. Post) how some law firms are outsourcing lower level legal work to law grads in India. Why? Cause for the $80K salary a lawyer could start with here, a law firm could hire 8 Indian lawyers to do their research work online. We're importing immigrants with H1-B visas for nursing jobs cause they'll take lower pay.
@EricPNeuman So now American nurses can't get jobs, or are being forced out to make way for immigrants. My mother was told by one of her friends that their son and a few coworkers were electricians, making $22/hr. They were all let go...and some hispanics were hired at guess what? $15 an hour. The point is, this video is dead on right. Perot was right. Poor people can't buy anything (unless you give them credit, until they can't even pay that back) and that's where we are. Underpaid, unemployed
Tom you are one of the biggest fucking morons ever to spew his idiocy over the airwaves. Morons like you would have supported bailouts for the horse and buggy industry and called for the crackdown on Henry Ford. Idiots like you would have us build cars even it would come at the cost of 10 times when another nation could build it for. idiots like you would build walls around this country and some how believe that sealing ourselves off from the world would some how grant us prosperity. Your a fag.
Free trade is greed. Companies dump US workers and produce in China paying $100/mo wages then sell here for big bucks. Republican free traitors love to partner with communists. Freedom in China is choosing a brand of ketchup. Forming a union or speaking against the government gets you a bullet in the head and you become a source for body parts. Free trade exported US industries and gave us unprecedented levels of unemployment and depression. Buy local American, then Vote out ALL Free Traitors!
@22popuser if only we could seal ourselves off from the rest of the world then we would truly be prosperous! I mean, it hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, but this time it will be different!
Democratic Senator Murray voted for NAFTA, WTO, China NTR, and CAFTA. Senator Murray also voted for the American Competitivenes act which brought in 300,000 engineers and computer programers. She also voted for S2611 which would have given amnesty to 11 million illegal aliens. These actions hurt American workers. Murray is poison to the American People. I hope my fellow Americans realize this before it is too late.
We literally do not make anything, it is not possible to buy American made. The american governments responsibility is to pass legislation to facilitate jobs in America. It is the Mexican Governments responsability to provide conditions so their citizens can have jobs. Exporting the americans peoples jobs to mexico is globalization. I defy anyone to go to one of the Marts and find American Made porducts.
Actually, the United States is the number one producer of manufactured goods in the world. And our output of manufactures increases every year. But don't take my word for it, look it up online, the information is there if you want to see it. For that matter, read up on this stuff at your local library. I did over last summer, and learned a lot.
hoodoo, Yes but you must be one gullable dude. Do you ever go shopping, if you did you would find that, nothing is made in the U.S.
I suppose it could be believable that we manufacture, highly automated products that require no labor, but that only makes money for businessmen, provides no jobs for americans. We need to manufacture labor intrensic products that will employ Americans. one in five americans are out of a job. What purpose do you have in giving me this information?
You say we "literally do not make anything" and I say we make more than anyone else in the world. The difference is that I am citing a fact and you are citing a trip to a big box mart. We specialize in high value capital and consumer goods. That is our comparative advantage. Other nations have large pools of poor labor. That is their comparative advantage. Should we stop making airplanes and start making shoes? Your argument seems to be that we need to stop being efficient with our labor.
And I say we do not make any of our own needs. Just for your information I will name a few. Textiles, shoes, light bulbs, T.V,, Radios, any electronics, cell phones, ceramics, art glass, CDs, Computers, printers, commercial art, paper, plastics , appliances, kitchen utensils. I will name you a few hundred more if it really means anything to you. I forgot automobiles and automobile parts.
So it matters little to you how many americans are unemployed. Could you give me an example of that high
Ug. This is getting laborious. I don't have the space on here to discuss thoroughly the subject or international trade. But it is a very important subject everyone should know about. So I am going to recommend you a book to read, please read it: Pop Internationalism by Paul Krugman. Read it, if you still have questions, then we can talk more. Pop Internationalism by Paul Krugman.
What is the matter with you, do you really think I would care to read Paul Krugman. He is as wrong as you are. Lincoln would never have freed the slave with your mentality. Paying them a living wage might have actually cost consumers another cent or two.
No, I guess you are right, I wouldn't think you would care to read anything at all. I doubt you have ever read anything about international trade at all, or even a basic text on economics. Think of trade this way: do you earn a salary? If so, you are trading your labor for money, which you then trade for products and services. You could produce all your own goods and do all your own services, buts its very inefficient. So you do a few things and trade for the rest. Its the same idea.
No, it is not third world labor that has destroyed the worker that earned a strong wage in manufacturing, it is rising productivity that did it. Almost all of the losses in manufacturing employment can be attributed to rising productivity (less people making more goods) Technology, not trade, is the culprit. And for the record, rising productivity is a good thing, if you couldn't guess. No real economist disputes this.
2) so the winners are multinationl corporations, using cheap Asian labor in one enviroment and shipping it back to us, duty free. High value consumer goods, what might that be? I haven't seen any of it at any price. I don't see high value capital as being our comparative advantage, I do see Cheap Asian labor as high profits for multinationls. Tariffs at our borders would would force that made in usa reappear in the stores.
Tariffs at our borders would do relatively little to change much of anything, besides slightly higher prices for consumers and bad press around the world. Think about it for a second. Before NAFTA, the average Mexico-US tariff was 4%. Thats way less than the difference between US and Mexican labor. If cheap Mexican labor was really going to pull jobs south, NAFTA would have been irrelevant anyway, only removing the 4% tariff in the face of massive wage differences. Free trade is not to blame.
hoodoo, The 4% tariff between US and Mexico. Wonder why pre NAFTA we had a billion dollar surplus, within one year of signing NAFTA we had a 16 billon dollar trade deficit with Mexico. If Free Trade is not to blame, why do we have a deficit. Admit it Cheap third world labor has destroyed the American who earned their living in manufacturing. Coke and Pepsi still bottle here with massive rates of production you can attempt to convince folks that all is well, but not many fools out there.
We have a trade deficit with Mexico because, if you can believe it, Americans can afford to buy a lot more goods and services than Mexicans can. Their economy is only a tiny fraction the size of ours, and their total manufacturing output is only a tiny fraction of ours. Its a fact. Your whole ideology stems from you not bothering to even glance a summary numbers, the FACTS. Please, spend 10 minutes looking these statistics up, you will see I am right.
Americans can buy more goods and services than Mexicans can, because they are paid subsistance wages by multinational corporations, to assemble Chines made part for the American Market. I do not visit corporate and government sponsered Think Tanks to get my informaton. They make the data fit the ideology.
I don't visit think tanks either, I read books and official statistics. Mexicans cannot afford as much as Americans because, shock! They don't produce as much as Americans. Wages reflect the level of productivity of labor, as well as the supply and demand for labor. Mexico has a huge supply of unskilled labor, hence low wages. Seriously, this is econ 101.
Well we have 20 million of them now, so thing must be getting better in Mexico: right. So you place the same emphisis on unskilled Mexican labor as you do unsilled american labor. Maybe you should have read Patriotism 101 instead of Econ 101. If you have no loyalties to your own countrymen that explains why you have the ideology you do. You are a globalist without loyalties to any country.
Surely you must realize how the things you are saying are. Is it patriotic to reduce your nation's real income? Why would we want to deny our exporting firms access to new markets? And what right to we have to limit what countries our people can exchange goods and services with? Free trade is patriotic, because it allows for mutually beneficial exchanges and greater productivity. Of course, those workers displaced by trade deserve aid and retraining, but most jobs are lost to productivity.
hoodoo, So you believe 1 in 5 unemployed americans is patriotic. We don't deny exporting firms new markets, we have a trillion dollar trade deficit, that would indicate they are already denied the markets. If you don't know why, it is because other nations remotely consider their citizens, and protect their markets. We are the only country in the world that train it's young people in the ecomomics of globalization. Free Trade by todays standards is criminal, by most peoples standards.
Official statistics, what does that mean, I well translate for you. Well: you gave the best example of it I can think of. You said " The US produces more than any country in the world" that is true, but what you didn't say is that the products made requires little or no labor. That is an example of the deception of those official statistics you are so proud of. You seem to miss the point that Americans consume those Mexican products, hence made in usa is desirable.
People have been consuming goods produced in other nations for thousands of years, because specialization from trade allows for tremendous productivity increases. I am glad you admit we make more than anyone else, and I don't understand why to think it is bad that we can produce so much with so little labor. And no, it does not cause unemployment, we have current unemployment because of the recession, not trade. Again, we could make all we consume, but it would be very inefficient.
hoodoo, the current recession is caused by unemployment. The current recession is caused by outsourcing 40,000 factories.
You are glad I admit we produce, Yes but you should also know that the entire method of calculation production was changed about 10 years ago. The global ideology had to make the diminishing production levels meet the global ideology. You know that you just thought I didnt know it.
Nonsense. The recession was not, is not, caused by an increasing volume of world trade, you have GOT to be kidding me, that is such an economically illiterate thing to say. The recession was caused by the collapse in inflated housing prices and the excessive volatile financial system. That collapse caused the recession, which lead to unemployment. Recessions cause unemployment, not the other way around. (of course, the resulting unemployment furthers the recession as it continues).
You are kidding, you mean to tell me that oursourcing 40,000 factories wouldn't cause a recession.
May I ask where you were taught economics? Wow I believe I would have questioned the professor on that one. The recession was caused by the complete dismantling of american industry. Nothing we consume is made in the USA. How do you figure that a trillion dollar trade deficit would not effect the economy, that alone is an economicaly ignorant statement.
Your time frame is totally off. Let me ask, when did we begin to outsource those 40,000 factories? I guess it was in the 1980s. So explain to me how a process that has been going on for decades caused a sudden recession in 2007. The economy is humming along perfectly, and suddenly it tanks because of a decades long trend? It was the collapse of the housing market, not international trade. We've been running trade deficits since the 70s, yes it has an effect but does not cause recessions.
hoodoo, In all due respect, if you believe the economy was humming along perfectly for working folks in the last 3 decades you are very naive to say the least. Working america has been strugling since the 1970s. Would you please watch a video of Elizabeth Warren, she did the research the video is called " The Coming Collapse of the Amerian Middleclass" she teaches contract law at Harvard and has done her research, she is very creditable.
Ah, we come to a different point. I agree with you that the middle and working classes have been struggling for the last three decades. And yes, a large part of that probably stems from the loss of manufacturing jobs. But the reason for those losses is where you and I differ. I look at the data and see that those loses stem from increased productivity which requires less labor. I also believe that one major way to aid working people is to reform healthcare, which is probably the biggest issue.
hoodoo, shouldn't increase production in the area of consumer goods show up in our stores. No it doesn't, because we do not manufacture consumer goods, we manufacture highly automated componants that do not require labor. Than the componants are sent to the rest of the world, and the value added operations are done, which require labor. By the way do you have a clear understanding of he definition of manufacturing, it includes almost everything, mining, agriculture.
You are wrong about the definition of manufacturing, I have followed these statistics for years, and GDP is always broken up into sectors, which are services, industry, and agriculture. Industry includes manufacturing, processing, and extraction, but the stats I am citing are only manufacturing, because the 1.8 trillion is less than the 2.5 trillion that composes the industrial sector.
Tariffs at our borders would give domestic industries opportunity to compete with multinational corporations manufacturing in Asia and shipping the products back to the U.S. A 50% or even a 100% on some products would send multinaltional corporations running back to the good ole USA with hat in hand. Japan built her economy through the use of tariffs. When we had on tariffs on Japanese cars they had a 50% tariff on U.S. made cars. Reagan threatened retaliatory tariff if they would not build her
Yes, and Japan built its economy through exporting high-quality goods to the rest of the world... exactly the thing you want to prevent the United States from doing. Do you think tariffs would go unnoticed? We would soon be facing tariffs of our own, and our exporting industries, the goods we sell to the rest of the world, would be ruined. That is the path of economic decline, not prosperity. For a time, Japan managed both tariffs and exports, but remember what happened in the 1990s?
hoodoo, Japan built her economy by exports to the west, and you know it. Why would we be concerned with a retalitary tariff with a trillion dollar trade deficit. That statement could not be taken seriously.
Yes, but that is irrelevant. Toyota is just one company, one firm in the world economy. The comparative position of one firm in one industry says very little, and nothing in terms of our conversation. Toyota is #1 because it delivers a superior product at minimal cost. Thats how markets work. It have nothing to do with trade policies, they build a better car. And anyways, Toyota and Honda make their cars in the United States. There is a huge Honda plant near me. And they make stuff there.
Toyota and Honda, became giant companys on the backs of American Auto workers, and don't attempt to tell me they didn't. While they tariffed our imports the liberal markets crowd in Washington allowed them to literally devistate our auto industry. They still protect their workers, because they care about their own countrymen. Thats the way americans were in post WW11. The country worked well because businessmen considered themselves to be american, and Washington made sure of that.
hoodoo, To produce the products that require very little labor, and outsource the labor intrinsic products, then when jobs are mentioned, say: well we are the number one producer of manufactured goods in the world, is really deceptive isn't it. A short trip to the store where there are no american made goods should raise ones curiosity. We should be manufacturing products that require labor, because 1in5 americans are unemployed, because we have outsourced 40,000 factories.
There are American made goods in the stores, I check when I go shopping as well. Just keep checking labels. But anyway, it doesn't matter, you can find the stats online, we manufacture more than anyone else. Your problem seems to be that more people are employed in services than manufacturing, which in fact is the result of soaring manufacturing productivity in recent decades. It takes little labor to make a product, and more labor to do a service.
hoodoo, I really do hate to call you a liar, but you force me to do it. When you say there are American Made manufactured goods in the stores. You apparantly do not go shopping. We possibly do manufacture more of something than anything else, but it is not consumer goods, and it is not labor intrensic.
My problem is that our manufacturing doesn't exist anymore, and the service economy doesn't work. What do we sorely manufacture, that you are so proud of.
Our manufacturing does exist. Look around where you live, you will see it. Do a google search for local manufacturing in your area, I guarantee you will be surprised by what is made in your area. Products made near me are steel, automobiles and parts, chemicals, beverages, machine tools, dyes, and much more. As for stores, products off the top of my head are home appliances, office supplies, toiletries, home hardware, speciality textiles, ect.
hoodoo, I believe you are attempting to convince me American has not been deindustrialized. How strange I went shopping for a new freezer this year and visited Lowes, Home Depot, Sears, HH Gregg and everyone I saw was made in China, the one I bought was Assmebled in Mexico with Chinese Parts. Why did the tool and die industry file suit with the WTO for the total devastation of the industry, Cleveland Ohio lined Lake Erie with tool and die shops, now there are none. Yep it appears you are conning
You are not paying attention. You said we do not make anything in the United States, and I gave you examples of what is made near where I live. You said our stores sell only imports, I gave you examples of what is sold that we make. You make unsubstantiated claims, and I cite facts and numbers. Stop trying to defend your ideology and please, listen to the facts. There is no shame in learning, we all do it. I used to be misinformed about the trade situation, then I did research.
I haven't heard you state any facts, I said we did not make consumer goods, I really didn't didn't consider food, I just assumed folks knew that most food was made here. There is no shame in learning and you need to do some of it. I have been studying the effects of free trade for 30 years, I don't think you are going to teach me anything. Because you believe the theory, more than you do the physical evidence.
You have cited not ONE fact or figure, just some rambling mis-observations from your shopping trips. We do producer consumer goods, from appliances to textiles to medicines to tools and hardware, furniture and auto-parts, computers and semi-conductors, all made here. If you don't learn, its because you ignore facts. We produce more than anyone else. Its an undebatable fact.
I guarantee you can go shopping and find a dozen items made in the United States. And you will not listen to the statistical evidence I have repeatedly cited. Have you considered the the world economy is bigger than your local Target? Why would you construct a whole ideology without checking the preliminary statistics? And we have a trade deficit because of the difference between our savings rate and investment rate. I'll say it again: The US manufactures more goods than any other nation.
I believe your guarantee would not be honored, because you will not find a dozen products made in america. I believe you know that. It would not be kitchen appliances, clothing, shoes, kitchen gadgets, TVs, computers, cameras, textiles of any kind,ceramics, sporting equipment, light bulbs, Radios, Auto Parts, housewares. Even in the food line more and more of the food we consume is coming from latin america. Florida tomato growers were devistated by Mexican tomatoes. Many lost the family farm.
Not true, I could easily buy 12 things made in the United States. First of all, almost every pair of socks I own was made in the US. Second, we do make high-quality shoes and boots, look them up online. And there are still textiles produced in the Carolinas. Many appliances are produced here, and GE makes incandescent light bulbs here too. I've seen an auto-parts plant in my city. And the US produces over 40% of the worlds food with 5% of the population.
Redwing boots moved to Mexico, Mason still makes a few (very few) shoes in the US. The entire shoe industry is in Bangladash at .15/hr. you also know that. Yes there are textiles produced in the Carolinas.The high production fabric industry. The fabric is exported and the value added operations are preformed in the third world, you know that also, if you don't you are asleep. All of the light bulbs that will replace the iridiscent bulb is made in China. According to a congressman, Bob Nickles.
I am glad we agree that these products are still made in the US. Other products include aircraft, autos, machine tools, computers, medicines, electrical equipment, ect. Production patterns for various products shift and change, it happens. In 10 years, most bulbs made me in China, but 20 years ago, no computer chips were made in the US. Production is not static.
hoodoo, We do not agree on the products made in the U.S. We do not make anything we consume. If you go to one of the marts you will not find american made products. We do not make computers they are made in china, we do not make industrial machine tools, we dont need them, because we do not do manufacturing, 40,000 factories were out sourced, with total disreguard for those who earned a living in manufacturing. How do you explain 1 trillion trade deficit, that is one thousand million.
We DO make computers here, I was just reading an article the other day on how Dell is expanding a plant in NC. Also, we do make a ton of machines and machine tools. Again, we are going in circles. Earlier we agreed that we produce more goods than anyone else. Now you say we make nothing. We are the largest producer of manufactures in the world. It is a fact, please, take 5 minutes to look it up. Yes, factories have been outsourced, but new ones have been built in other sectors.
I agree we do manufacture more than anyone in the world, but the definition of manufacturing was changed, and the products are not on our storeshelves. Dell doesn't even make computers, they just market them. If they are building in the U.S. it would be a distribution center, not a manufacturing facility.
hoodoo, We have a trade deficit because we have been deindustrialized. That is a no brainer, if you look at the physical evidance, 40,000 factories closed, 1 in 5 unemployed, 1 trillion dollar trade deficit. If you look around in the city I live in you can see miles of abondoned factories, Lear a miltinational Auto Interiors company was our latest closing (last year) laying off 1,700 employees. Go shopping and it is apparant why, we do not manufacture our own needs, a 50% tariff will fix that.
It seems we have regressed. How can you agree with me that we produce more than anyone else, and then say we have been deindustrialied? Factories close and open all the time, thats how it works. Old ones or uncompetitive ones shut down, and new ones are built. Thats how a market economy works. A 50% tariff would not shift employment to the US because labor costs are far less than 50% in third world nations. It would just lead to higher prices.
I live in the midwest factories closed here and stayed closed. The production went to China, some to Indonesia, but few. I make it my business to know why they close, and in every case it is the race to the bottom.
The overall trend in declining manufacturing employment has to do with the fact that plants and technology have increased productivity by so much. It takes so much fewer people nowadays to produce even more goods, that even as production soars, employment drops. Most job losses can be attributed to that. But I want to make a point about the tariff. You said Bang. shoes cost .15 hour. How would a 50% move shoe production to the US? .15+50%=.225. US labor costs still more than .22 an hour.
The 50% tariff would not be across the board, shoes might need 5000% tariff that is an example I didn't do the math. I don't see why you continue to make statements like increased prduction causes job loss. Does outsourcing 40,000 factories, create american job loss. How many american jobs is one trillion dollar trade deficit. Hay did you read my rebuttle to your statement on all those american made boots.
So what you are suggesting is that we ought to conduct zero trade? We ought to increase tariffs until imports become unfeasible? We ought to not exchange goods and services with anyone else? Thats what I have to conclude based on the 5000% tariff on shoes. Ridiculous. If I have to pay 400 dollars for a pair of sneakers, I won't be able to buy other goods. We will stop making computers and jet engines and start making t-shirts and sandals. You have a warped idea of prosperity.
Yes hoodoo that pretty much sums it up, imports after full employment of Americans, and you do not need to tell me that 3or4 % is considered full employment. It is ridiculus to have our store shelve lined with imports in view of massive unemployment. If ameicans have to pay a few dollars more to provide employment for their countrymen than so be it.
Well, 3-4% unemployment is considered full employment, because after that you start to run into inflation. Also, a there will always be part of the workforce that is frictionally unemployed, or between jobs, as people do tend to change lines of work in their careers. Anyways, we are presently in a recession, so the unemployment rate is much higher. And yes, you are proving that during recessions, economic nationalism always rises. But please, research the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930.
hoodoo I have been argueing the dangers of liberalizing our markets for 30 years, you can believe I have heard of Smoot-Hawley before. Smoot- Hawley was passed 8 months after the crash of 29.
hoodoo, Al Gore held a picture of Smoot and Hawley up before the media and said they caused the great depression. That is the same guy that told us how great NAFTA was. It was going to benefit all americans, now after the fact we know he is a liar. NAFTA did nothing but introduce another 5 million americans to poverty. Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan and others warned us of he danger of NAFTA! Now Al Gore is telling of the dangers of global warming. Do you give him creditability? I don't.
Most economic estimates say that NAFTA was in fact a small net benefit to US income, but had very little overall effect. 5 million Americans to poverty? Where did you pull that number out of? Ross Perot and Buchanan know nothing of international trade. Think about it. Mexico's economy is less than 7% as big as ours, how could a trade deal have had that much affect? It was mostly a diplomatic show of good will with very little net impact. And anyway, what does this have to do with Smoot-Hawley?
Ross Perot was an international businessman, a very sucessful one, you are showing your age, or you would know that. Where did you find that no net effect of NAFTA. information. NAFTA cost 879,000 americans their jobs.The difference between a 1 billion surplus, and a 13 billion deficit, is 14 billion, how many jobs is that. NAFTA might have helped the Mexican people more if Clinton would not have given MFN to China, because all the multinations, made a mad rush for China, and the 1.4 billion lab
Again, where are you getting these job estimates? And what does China have to do with NAFTA? And you have a basic error in your arithmetic: NAFTA hurt the US to the benefit of Mexico, but Mexico did not benefit from NAFTA. Does not hold up. Are you saying China was the only beneficiary of NAFTA? China had nothing to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement. And again, Mexico's manufacturing output is less than 10% total of ours, their industry literally could not have had much effect.
I didn't say the Mexican people profited from NAFTA. The Mexican Peasant only recieved a subsistence wage. The multinationals were the real profiters form NAFTA. I didn't explain properly China, NAFTA. The purpose of NAFTA was suppose to build a viable middleclass in Mexico, and they were suppose to be a market for US goods. The industrial transfurs were taking place across the border, suddenly Clinton gave MFN to China, suddenly Mexico was forgotten all capital flowed to China. Mexico was out
The reality of NAFTA is that is was never intended to have a lot of affect, and it never did. The fact is that trade barriers between the US Mexico and Canada were already minimal, as I explained already. NAFTA was essentially foreign policy, saying the US supported the reforms of the Salinas government. It had more political than economic affect, because again, very little changed.
hoodoo, I watched NAFTA being sold to the American people. I wrote letters and made phone calls in opposition to NAFTA.
I don't know where you got that information, but I can assure you it is totally incorrect. You are obviously reading some historical documentation of it. I can assure you that you have it all wrong. I watched intently while this job giveaway was being sold to us. If the trade barrier was minimal why in the 1st year did we go fram a 1b trade surplus to a 13b deficit.
Yes, and with your proposed massive tariffs, the prices of all imported shoes (that is to say, most shoes) would increase drastically, while adding few to no jobs. Even assuming your massive tariff is big enough to cover the wage difference between 3rd and 1st world workers, people would just have to shift spending toward shoes and away from other products, leading to job losses in other industries. Total unemployment would be unchanged or even harmed. All it would do would be hurt productivity
You really don't know how much a pair of american made shoes would cost. It has been so long since we had a shoe industry. Americans might have to pay a couple of bucks more, but create jobs for thousands. We really don't know that because of not having american competion to begin with. We would not cause job losses in the U.S. we would cause job losses in Asia, if we paid more for shoes. We don't make our own consumer goods, check the store shelves.
Yes, this argument perfectly demonstrates the reason that economic nationalism grows during recessions, because people see others unemployment and think the response should be protectionism. But what you need to remember is that if we go protectionist, so will everyone else in the world. Our exporters will be screwed, as well as our importers, and prices will soar. The jobs created would be offset by jobs destroyed. And in the end, all we would do would be reduce productivity.
What export? We have a trillion dollar trade deficit, why would we worry about it. The rest of the world is already protectionist, our government is the only govenment in the world, trying to give its industry away. Congress gave tax breaks to encourage some industries to outsource. Our importers, like who Walmart, Kmart, Target, who would care, mom and pop stores would appear again. The monopoly of the marts would be broken. Your offsetting of jobs is just amusing, I cannot take it serious
I was referring to the 900 billion dollars of exports we had in 2009, and the 1.2 trillion of exports we had in 2008 (it went down because of the global recession). Thats what. And why would increasing consumer prices help mom and pop stores? The marts would be unaffected, its consumers who would suffer from higher prices.
You brought us importers I didn't, i the marts importers? OK you told me about the exports, now tell me about the 1 trillion trade deficit that shows up on our store shelves. We imported the same as we exported. How many american jobs is that. Is that your concept of free trade, import as much as you export and have 20% of your population unemployed, while business makes record breaking profits. That sounds like a government of business, for the businesses. At any rate it is disgraceful.
Now I suppose I should discuss trade deficits. The thing to remember is that the trade deficit is equivalent to the equation S-I=X-M, or savings-investment=exports-imports. The reason we have a 1 trillion dollar trade deficit is because we invest more than our domestic amount of savings. But as a matter of accounting, we have to buy and sell the same amount to foreigners. So when we sell them assets to get capital to invest, we must purchase an equivalent amount in goods and services.
My point on deficits is that Why worry about tariffs. Asia does not buy our products Western Europe does. The only trade surplus we have with China is scrap steel and soy beans. They do the value addes processes that require labor. Why would we care if they place a retaliatory tariff. They will not dump the dollar, we consume their exports they must keep us afloat. My point is domestic industries can compete given even a level playing field.
If you don't believe that trade deficits are caused by low savings rates and not free trade agreements, consider this: we have had largely free trade for most of the 20th century (GATT). We started running consistent trade deficits in the 1980s, EXACTLY the same time our national savings rate began to fall. Remember, S-I=X-M, I am surprised you claim to have studied international trade but have not heard of this equation. Its the kind of thing you learn from a book and not from a Walmart trip.
hoodoo We have not had free trade for most of the 20th century, we protected our markets. The US economy for the most part was built on protectionism. GATT did not eliminate tariffs it only negotiated tariffs. The WTO eliminated tariffs, for the most part. That is recent history. Our savings rate began to fall because the jobs were already being oursourced the middleclass was being squeezed out of existance. The savings rate was a factor but not the cause, free trade was the cause.
Let me explain this again, see if I can be more clear: we have been losing manufacturing jobs for a number of years, (and gaining some, but not as much). But you are wrong in diagnosing the cause: its not the free exchange of goods with other nations, its technology and automation. Automated production lines and robots have cost us more jobs than any number of Chinese and Mexican workers. If you want to bring back jobs, outlaw technological advancement. For fun, google search "Luddites".
@hoodoo961 God if only we could go back to building everything with shovels and hammers, then we'd be the most prosperous nation in the world! God your an idiot....
@EricPNeuman Whoa buddy, I don't know what the hell you are referring to, but I never advocated anything like what you are talking about, "building everything with hammers and nails." If you can point out what comment of mine you are referring to, I will explain, but I think you mistook me for the other guy you were fighting with. If not, learn to read before calling people "idiots" for things they never said.
@EricPNeuman I think I see what you are confused about, I was describing how advancements in productivity, especially in manufacturing, allow us to produce more output of industrial products with much less labor. This means our manufacturing employment is way down from what is used to be. But you failed to keep reading and see that I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BAD THING or that it should be any other way. I support both free trade and technological advancement. Maybe do a more throughout job reading.
Hay hoodoo, You don't have to discuss deficits, you can just stay ignorant on the topic, or just hope no one mentions them when you are talking to them. Trade deficits mean we are buying more than we are selling. The reason for that is we do not manufacture our own needs, Asia does. The reason Asia does is because of .20/hr labor. The reason .20/hr labor is because of high profits for multinational corporations. Who pays for that: the American Worker.
You failed to understands, so I will try again. Stay with me. the US buys and sells the same amount from abroad, because each purchase is also a sale. Now remember the equation I taught you earlier, S-I=X-M. You must know, we have a low savings rate in this country, but we also have a high rate of investment. That capital came from overseas, we got it by selling assets the foreigners (T bills, dollars, stocks, bonds). But as a result of those sales, we also had to buy an equivalent amount.
hoodoo, Now listen closely and I will tell you how to change the scenario you just presented. Add a tariff at our borders, that will encourage investment in manufacruring in this country instead of Asia. We have a large, large consumer market we can make demands, on manufacturers.We are buying from abroad because we make nothing we consume. To bring wealth back to america we must start making things of value, instead of exporting raw material and allowing Asia to do the value added processes.
A tariff at our borders would cause...higher prices, and would only divert investment from production of high-value capital goods to low value consumer goods. So once again, we would stop making airplanes and computers and autos and start making T-shirts and sneakers. Which would generate more wealth? And our consumer market is 300 million, far less than the 7 billion world market we would seal ourselves off from. We do far more value-added than China or Japan, again, the numbers are not there.
I can guarantee you that the price of shoes would increase dramatically, displacing other spending. That is because prices are largely determined by the cost of inputs, and for shoes, the biggest input is labor. That means that most of the price of shoes is determined by the price of labor that makes them. And the difference between low-skilled 3rd and 1st world labor is tremendous, their labor costs a fraction of ours. So the price would necessarily sky-rocket.
heres your argument on one pair of nikes.15 cents labor, 50 cents materials, 50 cents transportation, $1.15 total. Now subtract from retail cost, 60.- 1.15 = 58.85 profit. I would say there in plenty of room in that profit margin for a few bucks Americna labor. Even if you doubled or tripled my example there is still plenty of room. The old business model was 20% todays cheap labor model is 300%. I that the purpose of the American society, to be consumers of multionatonal corporations.
I do not know the costs of shoes per se, but I would bet the farm that each pair costs substantially more than 1.15 to make. The raw-materials themselves cost much more than .50, I can assure you that. Plus you have to factor in the cost of the capital and plant, insurance, and the retail-markup that is probably most of the final price anyway. And the retailers are going to make the same profit regardless of the manufactures price. Everyone needs shoes, so the price is not going to be elastic.
No, you missed the point, the point is that when the manufacturing cost of the shoe goes up due to many times as expensive labor costs, the consumer price of the shoe would increase a lot. Tariffs=higher prices.
hoodoo, The price of shoes would not increase, if the cost of the tariff was taken out of the massive profit. Why should multinationals be rewarded so hansomly for making goods one hemisphere and selling in another. Tariffs also sends a message to them; manufacture domesticly or face tariffs. I don't see how manufacturing in some offshore country and bringingthe product back to their home country is even considered trade. It is just exploitation of the consumer and the laborer.
This shoe thing is making it evident that you have not studied text-book economics. A tariff is a tax, and on a tax on goods represents what we called a "dead-weight loss," the cost of which is shared by the producer and consumer, but the producer passes his loss of to the consume with still higher prices. Taxes on goods cause the price to increase, seriously, this is econ 101 again.
This is hilarious. Where is Europe now? ahahahha
what an idiot!
Salvysahagun 2 months ago
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We do not have free trade! It is MANAGED TRADE! HUGE DIFFERENCE!
McBagginz 8 months ago
you are the most irrational person.Ayn Rand believed strongly in a government structure that had certain ground rules in mind.That is the basic rules that are derived from individual rights the right to life,freedom and ownership of one's own property.Now capitalism fundamentally is a economic system but it's corollary is a political system.A political and economic system are very much connected by the law of causality.
SuperSelfreliance 9 months ago
Nice title! It is amazing to hear that Free Trade is destroying our economy when it doesn't exist. NAFTA isn't free trade, it is managed trade between three countries. Subsidizing exports for political purposes is not free trade, its robbing the treasury . Imposing tariffs on imports to crush competitors is not free trade. High taxes causing jobs to export overseas isn't free trade. Halting companies from coming to our shores, competing for lower prices, and creating jobs is not free trade.
AroundSun 10 months ago
This guy has no clue what he is talking about. The United States follows Keynesian economics. John Maynard Keynes's Macroeconomic theory promotes interventionist economic policy. Everything the Fed does follows this economic theory. This theory is drastically different from Free Market Economics. The "Free Trade" this guy talks about is NAFTA which is actually managed trade. Nothing in this video has even a grain of truth to it.
xTAxGUNZ 10 months ago
(continued) I watched from 2001-2006, US ARMY Newspaper had 2-4 pages of MOS's under 'stop-loss' (you are not allowed to leave regardless of contract agreements). Recruiters were offering 25K to people enlisting in Infantry. Re-enlistment bonus's were available. Basic trainies would blantanly fake injuries to get the hell out at a 70% of those going to the hospital for exams. Late 2006, bonus's were being reduced, offered less, and % of crybaby trainies decrease dramatically (next post)
xinecallaw 10 months ago
i hope an asteroid hits all you tyrant assholes that assume the right to control everyone else
longfootbuddy 10 months ago
Free trade is mutually beneficial.
FatTony726 11 months ago
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thenoblequran (Ctrl+Enter)
thankallahalltime 11 months ago
DEM's would apple to more people if you were not giving everything away to minorities and not making them earn their way in life like everyone else. It is evil, you either have to be a cold heartless evil capitalist pig REP, or a gay ass minority loving liberal retard. there is no party for working people in the USA. Affirmative action make me sick, and if you attack and kill my people this way I can never support you no mater what.
TheThedot 1 year ago
Ayn Rand - actually used America to pay for her cancer treatment and all of her medical bills. Yeh the russian whore had government healthcare paid for by the socialist tax payers of America - SO FUCK YOU RAND DOODLE HEADS FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOU AGAIN
justonefirefly1 1 year ago
Free trade is responsible for all the benefits of modern society.
TheLibertarianzye 1 year ago
@TheLibertarianzye Whose modern society? We've got several tiers. The millions and millions of starving peasants who live in the mud & shack villages surrounding the billionaires' "free trade" sweatshops wish to speak with you about these "benefits" they've never seen.
FriedDaisy 10 months ago
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Coercive trade barriers are criminal, and people that solicit/aid and abet/initiate them should be charged as such.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
Double Face Palm. I always find it amusing to listen to people rant about things that they have no knowledge of. It makes me giggle.
lyman65 1 year ago
oh yea what do you do when the referee is bribed or belongs to the city of one of the teams? Please, don't compare a football game with a market. you can compare a classroom to a market but not a football game with a market.
Because in markets its [win-win.]
In a game its [1. lose-win] OR [2. no win- no win.]
Market in most scenarios tends to benefit both parties over a transaction.
Muzafari 1 year ago
FYI : There is no country in the world that practices a proper free trade. Although majority of the world is run under a capitalist system. in terms of science, you my friend are lacking evidence in what you say.
I think the real problem you should look at is protectionism. The idea of making things on your own land or land development for wealth is known to be a theory called Physiocratism, that my friend proved to be a disappointment long time back.
Muzafari 1 year ago
Comparative advantage can't work. And it's moronic to try to debate the point that it can. The problem is inequality of currency, cost of living and cost of production. These are things that import duties are intended to level out in order to protect the market from subversion. Free trade is essentially what King George used to undermine the colonial economy. We went to war to put an end to that and become a free nation. The founders would call it treason. Globalists call it free trade.
havoc092 1 year ago
SMOOT HAWLEY 2011 !!!!!!!!!
worldsailor128 1 year ago
*Facepalm*. This guy hasn't done his research. At all. Everything the government does is backed up by force. Don't hand over your rightfully obtained property, men with guns come to your house to kidnap you. Try to defend yourself and you get murdered. This is not justifiable under any circumstances. What statists have trouble comprehending is that people can solve problems all by themselves and without violating peoples rights.
Houshalter 1 year ago
Thom,
You need to open your mind a little. Get some help with your research.... it might improve your logic, which right now is non-existant.
fiddlinmike 1 year ago
I agree! Free trade is killing America. We have a service based economy. Unless our representatives we voted in stop Free Trade and make it Equal Trade our economy will continue to collapse. Think of it this way. Take four tables and put an equal amount of money on all tables. Have one table trade @ 10:1, another 5:1, another 2:1 and then you have table #4 which is America. We are the One. How fast is the money going to dwindle. There goes our economy.
fredk3rd 1 year ago
@fredk3rd No.
hoodoo961 1 year ago
@fredk3rd, ok. What happens when you send an American dollar overseas? Some countries use USD, but for the most part it will get traded for their own currency to someone that wants to buy products from America. It's an observable fact that whenever imports are reduced exports are reduced proportionally. The oppisite is also true. By producing the things we are best at producing and trading them for things they are best at producing, everyone is better off.
Houshalter 1 year ago
what a lot of crap....it hurts me ears just listening to him
TheKimberleyRobyn 1 year ago
Hahahaha didn't Adam Smith completely destroy Mercantilists like this clown in 1776?
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi I suggest you read The _Tradition of Free Trade_ by Lars Magnusson. You will learn a lot about what Adam Smith really said and what he did not say.
mujaku 1 year ago
Post hoc fallacy...
loveliberty1776 1 year ago
0m 34s "...in er, eight-what nineteen, what was it, eighteen? The Russian Revolution? Whenever the Russian Revolution was."
I find it very difficult to take seriously the desultory ramblings of a man who presumes to lecture on economics, politics and history when he DOES NOT KNOW WHEN OR IN WHICH CENTURY THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION TOOK PLACE.
joelhowells 1 year ago
Comment removed
joelhowells 1 year ago
Dude you have to understand that the government in the US is run by banks, oil companies and British Oligarchy. It will take a revolution for a change but thats not going to happen, people are useless for the most part. Too much tv, propaganda, and traitors.
Rustyshackleford08 1 year ago 5
@Rustyshackleford08 British oligarchy? No please, do elaborate at your leisure.
joelhowells 1 year ago
@joelhowells
The banks, city of London banks, Rothschild..etc My government just gave 30 billion dollars to help bail them out a few weeks ago.
Rustyshackleford08 1 year ago 2
@Rustyshackleford08 (CONTINUED page 3) Listing of stop-loss began decreasing, even though troop levels increased in the middle east. In 2007 only 15% of trainies wanted any excuse to get out. I met someone with a FRACTURED C-SPINE from a car accident months before starting basic, and he was fine till combatives and it was re-injured. He was in tears because this was his LAST chance to provide for his family. People with surgically reconstructed knees trying to make it went up 300% (next post)
xinecallaw 10 months ago
@Rustyshackleford08 Right now bonuses for enlisting, extremely rare, bonuses for re-enlisting even more rare. Recruiters now have the luxuary of turning down sub-optimal recruits, when in 2004-2005 you could have 2 broken bones in your body and still get approved to go to basic. I have to deal with grown men, in tears, when they get severely injuried because their family and them will be homless if med-boarded. This is only a scratch of the surface and is why I HATE BUSH/CHENEY/ REPUBLICANS.
xinecallaw 10 months ago
@Rustyshackleford08 I take it your upset about our economic decline! Everything you listed is NOT the primary cause. (Lets see if this user name is terminated) Our economic crash was done ON PURPOSE! Shocking, but sadly true. Bush had to make a decision, either re-ignite the draft fire or crash economy giving people who want to provide for their family a choice, homeless or enlist. I work at MACH at fort benning georgia, from 2001-2006 and I was beside myself when I realized this (next post)
xinecallaw 10 months ago
PS Reading "Financial Times" is like relying on Hitler's radio station inside concentration camp, during II World War.
krokeman 1 year ago
Man how brainwashed you are. In Europe banks also screw up societies. This "stimulation" packets are financed by credits contracted in banks. And soon Europe will crash as well as USA and other socialistic countries dependent on fiat money.
krokeman 1 year ago
what's going on isn't free trade. trade is incredibly slanted against US markets. then the video failed to mention how politically-powerful labor unions and regulations of industry are adding tremendous costs... this is anti-American trade, there is no such thing as free trade today
SimulacrumMaster 1 year ago 2
Shouldn't you know when the Bolshevik Revolution happened????
DeshierArchitecte 1 year ago
Since WWII the US was an independent, productive, world power, first in space, finance, industrial production, medicine, science, and education and we could feed the world. We had 2000mph computer guided planes and commercial jet aircraft by 1958. We invented air conditioning, TV, microwave ovens, mobile phones, pocket calculators, supersonic aircraft, digital computers, nuclear submarines, the laser, integrated circuits, heart transplants, compact discs and the internet, Then came free trade.
22popuser 1 year ago
@22popuser Well said 22popuser!
louiethegreater 1 year ago
@22popuser Number one, most of the technology you just named would not have been possible without the defection of foreign scientists from Germany and Russia that worked or had their work contribute to almost all of the products. Number two, the resources that were required for almost all of those products came from trade from other nations! Would any of them have been possible without trading for what we needed?
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@22popuser
We still lead the world in new technology in almost all of those fields, none oft hat is going to go away and any protectionist you ask is going to say the real problem is the loss of manufacturing jobs to nations in Asia, which in fact is not a problem because the price of clothing has gone down and it encourages Americans to get training in more productive fields.
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@22popuser
Like I said, it's transitioning from horses and buggy's to cars, people were put out of work and morons like you would have said that came at too high a cost, but it was more efficient to use cars over horses even if that required a transitioning process. If you disagree with me, sell your fucking car and bu ya horse and use a candle and live in a fucking cave you god damned hypocrite....
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman Stop the name calling and profanity- think! America was a great INDEPENDENT free nation. We didn't have millions of containers filled with foreign products landing on our shores we made the stuff. Stores were filled with products made in the USA from our resources. Now we export our resources, sell our infrastructure to INVESTORS, and export our technology and our mfr'g and service sector jobs. We are broke, unemployed and in debt. Globalists have no flag, they salute their wallets!
22popuser 1 year ago
@22popuser How the hell an idiot like you can be a member of the constitutional party is beyond me. Listen very carefully: There has NEVER EVER been a time when we did not trade and simply made all of our own products and there has never been a time frame when we have been involved in the completely same industries period. No nation that makes everything itself has been prosperous, what nation came closest to that: the USSR and it failed miserably.
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman The Constitution is protectionist of our RIGHTS. Allowing CEOs to move US high tech plants offshore and manufacture in third world countries with cheap land & construction costs, no codes, no pollution concerns, and slave labor with no rights, to compete duty free with American companies who pay first world costs of land, construction, environment and labor is SUICIDE. We wont trade away our middle class lifestyle for a 10 x 10 dirt floor shack working 60 hrs a week for $2/hr.
22popuser 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman Really? Answer this, how did America become so powerful, so wealthy, and so economically industrious, that we could simultaneously rebuild Japan, and Europe after WW2? Because of what 22popuser said. We had an industrial independence unscathed by the devastation of the war.
Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman People have to work and earn enough to support their economies. Unionization made huge gains during the 40's up until the 70's. That's when America finally got a true middle class, and saw prosperity. (Save the early reccessions seen during Vietnam and the 70's, which was because of early outsourcing)
Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman Once we rebuilt Europe and Japan, since they were economically "starting over", we began outsourcing to them in the 50's. Do you think America rebuilt everyone for free? Nope. Enter the IMF, and making the dollar the world reserve currency...creating demand for the dollar independent of our economy.
Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman That's what hid our economic outsourcing and trade deficits for so long. Building up other nations with our outsourcing, they still needed dollars to trade with us and each other. Once it was obvious the damage from outsourcing was outstripping the ability to hide it in our economy, Nixon did the only thing left to continue the policy. Remove the gold standard, so we could inflate the currency, expand credit, and fuel this thing some more. 40 years later, now we're up against a wall
Luvcreole 1 year ago
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Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman But since people only study the "nice, neat, feel good edited" versions of American History, it's understandable they wouldn't see the dark side of American capitalism. As selfish winner take all kind, not one based off of the "Judeo-Christian" values we claim as our own. E.G. not letting 3 million Africans and countless Indians enjoy the "freedom" our Constitution promised. Or the child labor issues. Or the "company stores" for the poor miners, sharecropping...I could go on & on.
Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman That was more than made up with auto manufacturing jobs, and everything related to it. Done by Americans. Surely you can see that. Nothing or too little has replaced all the millions of jobs lost when clothing, textiles, manufacturing of appliances (indoor and outdoor), furniture, housewares (dishes, silverware, etc), lightbulbs, not to mention more of our food is coming from elsewhere. When electronics started in the 70's, it to was made here. So it helped make up for the losses..
Luvcreole 1 year ago
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Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman ..but even that got outsourced. Then customer service departments for these companies got outsourced. Tech lines got outsourced. Now I read in the paper (Wash. Post) how some law firms are outsourcing lower level legal work to law grads in India. Why? Cause for the $80K salary a lawyer could start with here, a law firm could hire 8 Indian lawyers to do their research work online. We're importing immigrants with H1-B visas for nursing jobs cause they'll take lower pay.
Luvcreole 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman So now American nurses can't get jobs, or are being forced out to make way for immigrants. My mother was told by one of her friends that their son and a few coworkers were electricians, making $22/hr. They were all let go...and some hispanics were hired at guess what? $15 an hour. The point is, this video is dead on right. Perot was right. Poor people can't buy anything (unless you give them credit, until they can't even pay that back) and that's where we are. Underpaid, unemployed
Luvcreole 1 year ago
Tom you are one of the biggest fucking morons ever to spew his idiocy over the airwaves. Morons like you would have supported bailouts for the horse and buggy industry and called for the crackdown on Henry Ford. Idiots like you would have us build cars even it would come at the cost of 10 times when another nation could build it for. idiots like you would build walls around this country and some how believe that sealing ourselves off from the world would some how grant us prosperity. Your a fag.
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
Free trade is greed. Companies dump US workers and produce in China paying $100/mo wages then sell here for big bucks. Republican free traitors love to partner with communists. Freedom in China is choosing a brand of ketchup. Forming a union or speaking against the government gets you a bullet in the head and you become a source for body parts. Free trade exported US industries and gave us unprecedented levels of unemployment and depression. Buy local American, then Vote out ALL Free Traitors!
22popuser 1 year ago
@22popuser if only we could seal ourselves off from the rest of the world then we would truly be prosperous! I mean, it hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried, but this time it will be different!
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
Democratic Senator Murray voted for NAFTA, WTO, China NTR, and CAFTA. Senator Murray also voted for the American Competitivenes act which brought in 300,000 engineers and computer programers. She also voted for S2611 which would have given amnesty to 11 million illegal aliens. These actions hurt American workers. Murray is poison to the American People. I hope my fellow Americans realize this before it is too late.
Sciuser10 1 year ago
We literally do not make anything, it is not possible to buy American made. The american governments responsibility is to pass legislation to facilitate jobs in America. It is the Mexican Governments responsability to provide conditions so their citizens can have jobs. Exporting the americans peoples jobs to mexico is globalization. I defy anyone to go to one of the Marts and find American Made porducts.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Actually, the United States is the number one producer of manufactured goods in the world. And our output of manufactures increases every year. But don't take my word for it, look it up online, the information is there if you want to see it. For that matter, read up on this stuff at your local library. I did over last summer, and learned a lot.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, Yes but you must be one gullable dude. Do you ever go shopping, if you did you would find that, nothing is made in the U.S.
I suppose it could be believable that we manufacture, highly automated products that require no labor, but that only makes money for businessmen, provides no jobs for americans. We need to manufacture labor intrensic products that will employ Americans. one in five americans are out of a job. What purpose do you have in giving me this information?
louiethegreater 2 years ago
You say we "literally do not make anything" and I say we make more than anyone else in the world. The difference is that I am citing a fact and you are citing a trip to a big box mart. We specialize in high value capital and consumer goods. That is our comparative advantage. Other nations have large pools of poor labor. That is their comparative advantage. Should we stop making airplanes and start making shoes? Your argument seems to be that we need to stop being efficient with our labor.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
And I say we do not make any of our own needs. Just for your information I will name a few. Textiles, shoes, light bulbs, T.V,, Radios, any electronics, cell phones, ceramics, art glass, CDs, Computers, printers, commercial art, paper, plastics , appliances, kitchen utensils. I will name you a few hundred more if it really means anything to you. I forgot automobiles and automobile parts.
So it matters little to you how many americans are unemployed. Could you give me an example of that high
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Ug. This is getting laborious. I don't have the space on here to discuss thoroughly the subject or international trade. But it is a very important subject everyone should know about. So I am going to recommend you a book to read, please read it: Pop Internationalism by Paul Krugman. Read it, if you still have questions, then we can talk more. Pop Internationalism by Paul Krugman.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
What is the matter with you, do you really think I would care to read Paul Krugman. He is as wrong as you are. Lincoln would never have freed the slave with your mentality. Paying them a living wage might have actually cost consumers another cent or two.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
No, I guess you are right, I wouldn't think you would care to read anything at all. I doubt you have ever read anything about international trade at all, or even a basic text on economics. Think of trade this way: do you earn a salary? If so, you are trading your labor for money, which you then trade for products and services. You could produce all your own goods and do all your own services, buts its very inefficient. So you do a few things and trade for the rest. Its the same idea.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
No, it is not third world labor that has destroyed the worker that earned a strong wage in manufacturing, it is rising productivity that did it. Almost all of the losses in manufacturing employment can be attributed to rising productivity (less people making more goods) Technology, not trade, is the culprit. And for the record, rising productivity is a good thing, if you couldn't guess. No real economist disputes this.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
2) so the winners are multinationl corporations, using cheap Asian labor in one enviroment and shipping it back to us, duty free. High value consumer goods, what might that be? I haven't seen any of it at any price. I don't see high value capital as being our comparative advantage, I do see Cheap Asian labor as high profits for multinationls. Tariffs at our borders would would force that made in usa reappear in the stores.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Tariffs at our borders would do relatively little to change much of anything, besides slightly higher prices for consumers and bad press around the world. Think about it for a second. Before NAFTA, the average Mexico-US tariff was 4%. Thats way less than the difference between US and Mexican labor. If cheap Mexican labor was really going to pull jobs south, NAFTA would have been irrelevant anyway, only removing the 4% tariff in the face of massive wage differences. Free trade is not to blame.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, The 4% tariff between US and Mexico. Wonder why pre NAFTA we had a billion dollar surplus, within one year of signing NAFTA we had a 16 billon dollar trade deficit with Mexico. If Free Trade is not to blame, why do we have a deficit. Admit it Cheap third world labor has destroyed the American who earned their living in manufacturing. Coke and Pepsi still bottle here with massive rates of production you can attempt to convince folks that all is well, but not many fools out there.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
We have a trade deficit with Mexico because, if you can believe it, Americans can afford to buy a lot more goods and services than Mexicans can. Their economy is only a tiny fraction the size of ours, and their total manufacturing output is only a tiny fraction of ours. Its a fact. Your whole ideology stems from you not bothering to even glance a summary numbers, the FACTS. Please, spend 10 minutes looking these statistics up, you will see I am right.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Americans can buy more goods and services than Mexicans can, because they are paid subsistance wages by multinational corporations, to assemble Chines made part for the American Market. I do not visit corporate and government sponsered Think Tanks to get my informaton. They make the data fit the ideology.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I don't visit think tanks either, I read books and official statistics. Mexicans cannot afford as much as Americans because, shock! They don't produce as much as Americans. Wages reflect the level of productivity of labor, as well as the supply and demand for labor. Mexico has a huge supply of unskilled labor, hence low wages. Seriously, this is econ 101.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Well we have 20 million of them now, so thing must be getting better in Mexico: right. So you place the same emphisis on unskilled Mexican labor as you do unsilled american labor. Maybe you should have read Patriotism 101 instead of Econ 101. If you have no loyalties to your own countrymen that explains why you have the ideology you do. You are a globalist without loyalties to any country.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Surely you must realize how the things you are saying are. Is it patriotic to reduce your nation's real income? Why would we want to deny our exporting firms access to new markets? And what right to we have to limit what countries our people can exchange goods and services with? Free trade is patriotic, because it allows for mutually beneficial exchanges and greater productivity. Of course, those workers displaced by trade deserve aid and retraining, but most jobs are lost to productivity.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, So you believe 1 in 5 unemployed americans is patriotic. We don't deny exporting firms new markets, we have a trillion dollar trade deficit, that would indicate they are already denied the markets. If you don't know why, it is because other nations remotely consider their citizens, and protect their markets. We are the only country in the world that train it's young people in the ecomomics of globalization. Free Trade by todays standards is criminal, by most peoples standards.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Official statistics, what does that mean, I well translate for you. Well: you gave the best example of it I can think of. You said " The US produces more than any country in the world" that is true, but what you didn't say is that the products made requires little or no labor. That is an example of the deception of those official statistics you are so proud of. You seem to miss the point that Americans consume those Mexican products, hence made in usa is desirable.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
People have been consuming goods produced in other nations for thousands of years, because specialization from trade allows for tremendous productivity increases. I am glad you admit we make more than anyone else, and I don't understand why to think it is bad that we can produce so much with so little labor. And no, it does not cause unemployment, we have current unemployment because of the recession, not trade. Again, we could make all we consume, but it would be very inefficient.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, the current recession is caused by unemployment. The current recession is caused by outsourcing 40,000 factories.
You are glad I admit we produce, Yes but you should also know that the entire method of calculation production was changed about 10 years ago. The global ideology had to make the diminishing production levels meet the global ideology. You know that you just thought I didnt know it.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Nonsense. The recession was not, is not, caused by an increasing volume of world trade, you have GOT to be kidding me, that is such an economically illiterate thing to say. The recession was caused by the collapse in inflated housing prices and the excessive volatile financial system. That collapse caused the recession, which lead to unemployment. Recessions cause unemployment, not the other way around. (of course, the resulting unemployment furthers the recession as it continues).
hoodoo961 2 years ago
You are kidding, you mean to tell me that oursourcing 40,000 factories wouldn't cause a recession.
May I ask where you were taught economics? Wow I believe I would have questioned the professor on that one. The recession was caused by the complete dismantling of american industry. Nothing we consume is made in the USA. How do you figure that a trillion dollar trade deficit would not effect the economy, that alone is an economicaly ignorant statement.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Your time frame is totally off. Let me ask, when did we begin to outsource those 40,000 factories? I guess it was in the 1980s. So explain to me how a process that has been going on for decades caused a sudden recession in 2007. The economy is humming along perfectly, and suddenly it tanks because of a decades long trend? It was the collapse of the housing market, not international trade. We've been running trade deficits since the 70s, yes it has an effect but does not cause recessions.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, In all due respect, if you believe the economy was humming along perfectly for working folks in the last 3 decades you are very naive to say the least. Working america has been strugling since the 1970s. Would you please watch a video of Elizabeth Warren, she did the research the video is called " The Coming Collapse of the Amerian Middleclass" she teaches contract law at Harvard and has done her research, she is very creditable.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Ah, we come to a different point. I agree with you that the middle and working classes have been struggling for the last three decades. And yes, a large part of that probably stems from the loss of manufacturing jobs. But the reason for those losses is where you and I differ. I look at the data and see that those loses stem from increased productivity which requires less labor. I also believe that one major way to aid working people is to reform healthcare, which is probably the biggest issue.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, shouldn't increase production in the area of consumer goods show up in our stores. No it doesn't, because we do not manufacture consumer goods, we manufacture highly automated componants that do not require labor. Than the componants are sent to the rest of the world, and the value added operations are done, which require labor. By the way do you have a clear understanding of he definition of manufacturing, it includes almost everything, mining, agriculture.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
You are wrong about the definition of manufacturing, I have followed these statistics for years, and GDP is always broken up into sectors, which are services, industry, and agriculture. Industry includes manufacturing, processing, and extraction, but the stats I am citing are only manufacturing, because the 1.8 trillion is less than the 2.5 trillion that composes the industrial sector.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Tariffs at our borders would give domestic industries opportunity to compete with multinational corporations manufacturing in Asia and shipping the products back to the U.S. A 50% or even a 100% on some products would send multinaltional corporations running back to the good ole USA with hat in hand. Japan built her economy through the use of tariffs. When we had on tariffs on Japanese cars they had a 50% tariff on U.S. made cars. Reagan threatened retaliatory tariff if they would not build her
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Yes, and Japan built its economy through exporting high-quality goods to the rest of the world... exactly the thing you want to prevent the United States from doing. Do you think tariffs would go unnoticed? We would soon be facing tariffs of our own, and our exporting industries, the goods we sell to the rest of the world, would be ruined. That is the path of economic decline, not prosperity. For a time, Japan managed both tariffs and exports, but remember what happened in the 1990s?
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, Japan built her economy by exports to the west, and you know it. Why would we be concerned with a retalitary tariff with a trillion dollar trade deficit. That statement could not be taken seriously.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Remember what happened in 2009 Toyota became No.1
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Yes, but that is irrelevant. Toyota is just one company, one firm in the world economy. The comparative position of one firm in one industry says very little, and nothing in terms of our conversation. Toyota is #1 because it delivers a superior product at minimal cost. Thats how markets work. It have nothing to do with trade policies, they build a better car. And anyways, Toyota and Honda make their cars in the United States. There is a huge Honda plant near me. And they make stuff there.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Toyota and Honda, became giant companys on the backs of American Auto workers, and don't attempt to tell me they didn't. While they tariffed our imports the liberal markets crowd in Washington allowed them to literally devistate our auto industry. They still protect their workers, because they care about their own countrymen. Thats the way americans were in post WW11. The country worked well because businessmen considered themselves to be american, and Washington made sure of that.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
hoodoo, To produce the products that require very little labor, and outsource the labor intrinsic products, then when jobs are mentioned, say: well we are the number one producer of manufactured goods in the world, is really deceptive isn't it. A short trip to the store where there are no american made goods should raise ones curiosity. We should be manufacturing products that require labor, because 1in5 americans are unemployed, because we have outsourced 40,000 factories.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
There are American made goods in the stores, I check when I go shopping as well. Just keep checking labels. But anyway, it doesn't matter, you can find the stats online, we manufacture more than anyone else. Your problem seems to be that more people are employed in services than manufacturing, which in fact is the result of soaring manufacturing productivity in recent decades. It takes little labor to make a product, and more labor to do a service.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, I really do hate to call you a liar, but you force me to do it. When you say there are American Made manufactured goods in the stores. You apparantly do not go shopping. We possibly do manufacture more of something than anything else, but it is not consumer goods, and it is not labor intrensic.
My problem is that our manufacturing doesn't exist anymore, and the service economy doesn't work. What do we sorely manufacture, that you are so proud of.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Our manufacturing does exist. Look around where you live, you will see it. Do a google search for local manufacturing in your area, I guarantee you will be surprised by what is made in your area. Products made near me are steel, automobiles and parts, chemicals, beverages, machine tools, dyes, and much more. As for stores, products off the top of my head are home appliances, office supplies, toiletries, home hardware, speciality textiles, ect.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, I believe you are attempting to convince me American has not been deindustrialized. How strange I went shopping for a new freezer this year and visited Lowes, Home Depot, Sears, HH Gregg and everyone I saw was made in China, the one I bought was Assmebled in Mexico with Chinese Parts. Why did the tool and die industry file suit with the WTO for the total devastation of the industry, Cleveland Ohio lined Lake Erie with tool and die shops, now there are none. Yep it appears you are conning
louiethegreater 2 years ago
You are not paying attention. You said we do not make anything in the United States, and I gave you examples of what is made near where I live. You said our stores sell only imports, I gave you examples of what is sold that we make. You make unsubstantiated claims, and I cite facts and numbers. Stop trying to defend your ideology and please, listen to the facts. There is no shame in learning, we all do it. I used to be misinformed about the trade situation, then I did research.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I haven't heard you state any facts, I said we did not make consumer goods, I really didn't didn't consider food, I just assumed folks knew that most food was made here. There is no shame in learning and you need to do some of it. I have been studying the effects of free trade for 30 years, I don't think you are going to teach me anything. Because you believe the theory, more than you do the physical evidence.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
You have cited not ONE fact or figure, just some rambling mis-observations from your shopping trips. We do producer consumer goods, from appliances to textiles to medicines to tools and hardware, furniture and auto-parts, computers and semi-conductors, all made here. If you don't learn, its because you ignore facts. We produce more than anyone else. Its an undebatable fact.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, And when we go shopping we can not find one product Made in the USA.
Don't tell me you can, because you can't. We have a trillion dollar trade deficit for a reason. You will not believe the physical evidence.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I guarantee you can go shopping and find a dozen items made in the United States. And you will not listen to the statistical evidence I have repeatedly cited. Have you considered the the world economy is bigger than your local Target? Why would you construct a whole ideology without checking the preliminary statistics? And we have a trade deficit because of the difference between our savings rate and investment rate. I'll say it again: The US manufactures more goods than any other nation.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I believe your guarantee would not be honored, because you will not find a dozen products made in america. I believe you know that. It would not be kitchen appliances, clothing, shoes, kitchen gadgets, TVs, computers, cameras, textiles of any kind,ceramics, sporting equipment, light bulbs, Radios, Auto Parts, housewares. Even in the food line more and more of the food we consume is coming from latin america. Florida tomato growers were devistated by Mexican tomatoes. Many lost the family farm.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Not true, I could easily buy 12 things made in the United States. First of all, almost every pair of socks I own was made in the US. Second, we do make high-quality shoes and boots, look them up online. And there are still textiles produced in the Carolinas. Many appliances are produced here, and GE makes incandescent light bulbs here too. I've seen an auto-parts plant in my city. And the US produces over 40% of the worlds food with 5% of the population.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Redwing boots moved to Mexico, Mason still makes a few (very few) shoes in the US. The entire shoe industry is in Bangladash at .15/hr. you also know that. Yes there are textiles produced in the Carolinas.The high production fabric industry. The fabric is exported and the value added operations are preformed in the third world, you know that also, if you don't you are asleep. All of the light bulbs that will replace the iridiscent bulb is made in China. According to a congressman, Bob Nickles.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I am glad we agree that these products are still made in the US. Other products include aircraft, autos, machine tools, computers, medicines, electrical equipment, ect. Production patterns for various products shift and change, it happens. In 10 years, most bulbs made me in China, but 20 years ago, no computer chips were made in the US. Production is not static.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, We do not agree on the products made in the U.S. We do not make anything we consume. If you go to one of the marts you will not find american made products. We do not make computers they are made in china, we do not make industrial machine tools, we dont need them, because we do not do manufacturing, 40,000 factories were out sourced, with total disreguard for those who earned a living in manufacturing. How do you explain 1 trillion trade deficit, that is one thousand million.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
We DO make computers here, I was just reading an article the other day on how Dell is expanding a plant in NC. Also, we do make a ton of machines and machine tools. Again, we are going in circles. Earlier we agreed that we produce more goods than anyone else. Now you say we make nothing. We are the largest producer of manufactures in the world. It is a fact, please, take 5 minutes to look it up. Yes, factories have been outsourced, but new ones have been built in other sectors.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I agree we do manufacture more than anyone in the world, but the definition of manufacturing was changed, and the products are not on our storeshelves. Dell doesn't even make computers, they just market them. If they are building in the U.S. it would be a distribution center, not a manufacturing facility.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
So what do you think we do with those products, burn them? And yes, Dell does assemble computers.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, We have a trade deficit because we have been deindustrialized. That is a no brainer, if you look at the physical evidance, 40,000 factories closed, 1 in 5 unemployed, 1 trillion dollar trade deficit. If you look around in the city I live in you can see miles of abondoned factories, Lear a miltinational Auto Interiors company was our latest closing (last year) laying off 1,700 employees. Go shopping and it is apparant why, we do not manufacture our own needs, a 50% tariff will fix that.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
It seems we have regressed. How can you agree with me that we produce more than anyone else, and then say we have been deindustrialied? Factories close and open all the time, thats how it works. Old ones or uncompetitive ones shut down, and new ones are built. Thats how a market economy works. A 50% tariff would not shift employment to the US because labor costs are far less than 50% in third world nations. It would just lead to higher prices.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I live in the midwest factories closed here and stayed closed. The production went to China, some to Indonesia, but few. I make it my business to know why they close, and in every case it is the race to the bottom.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
The overall trend in declining manufacturing employment has to do with the fact that plants and technology have increased productivity by so much. It takes so much fewer people nowadays to produce even more goods, that even as production soars, employment drops. Most job losses can be attributed to that. But I want to make a point about the tariff. You said Bang. shoes cost .15 hour. How would a 50% move shoe production to the US? .15+50%=.225. US labor costs still more than .22 an hour.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
The 50% tariff would not be across the board, shoes might need 5000% tariff that is an example I didn't do the math. I don't see why you continue to make statements like increased prduction causes job loss. Does outsourcing 40,000 factories, create american job loss. How many american jobs is one trillion dollar trade deficit. Hay did you read my rebuttle to your statement on all those american made boots.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
So what you are suggesting is that we ought to conduct zero trade? We ought to increase tariffs until imports become unfeasible? We ought to not exchange goods and services with anyone else? Thats what I have to conclude based on the 5000% tariff on shoes. Ridiculous. If I have to pay 400 dollars for a pair of sneakers, I won't be able to buy other goods. We will stop making computers and jet engines and start making t-shirts and sandals. You have a warped idea of prosperity.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Yes hoodoo that pretty much sums it up, imports after full employment of Americans, and you do not need to tell me that 3or4 % is considered full employment. It is ridiculus to have our store shelve lined with imports in view of massive unemployment. If ameicans have to pay a few dollars more to provide employment for their countrymen than so be it.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Well, 3-4% unemployment is considered full employment, because after that you start to run into inflation. Also, a there will always be part of the workforce that is frictionally unemployed, or between jobs, as people do tend to change lines of work in their careers. Anyways, we are presently in a recession, so the unemployment rate is much higher. And yes, you are proving that during recessions, economic nationalism always rises. But please, research the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo I have been argueing the dangers of liberalizing our markets for 30 years, you can believe I have heard of Smoot-Hawley before. Smoot- Hawley was passed 8 months after the crash of 29.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I would have guessed you had heard of it, but why you refuse to acknowledge its pernicious effects and learn from it is not understandable.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, Al Gore held a picture of Smoot and Hawley up before the media and said they caused the great depression. That is the same guy that told us how great NAFTA was. It was going to benefit all americans, now after the fact we know he is a liar. NAFTA did nothing but introduce another 5 million americans to poverty. Ross Perot and Pat Buchanan and others warned us of he danger of NAFTA! Now Al Gore is telling of the dangers of global warming. Do you give him creditability? I don't.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Most economic estimates say that NAFTA was in fact a small net benefit to US income, but had very little overall effect. 5 million Americans to poverty? Where did you pull that number out of? Ross Perot and Buchanan know nothing of international trade. Think about it. Mexico's economy is less than 7% as big as ours, how could a trade deal have had that much affect? It was mostly a diplomatic show of good will with very little net impact. And anyway, what does this have to do with Smoot-Hawley?
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Ross Perot was an international businessman, a very sucessful one, you are showing your age, or you would know that. Where did you find that no net effect of NAFTA. information. NAFTA cost 879,000 americans their jobs.The difference between a 1 billion surplus, and a 13 billion deficit, is 14 billion, how many jobs is that. NAFTA might have helped the Mexican people more if Clinton would not have given MFN to China, because all the multinations, made a mad rush for China, and the 1.4 billion lab
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Again, where are you getting these job estimates? And what does China have to do with NAFTA? And you have a basic error in your arithmetic: NAFTA hurt the US to the benefit of Mexico, but Mexico did not benefit from NAFTA. Does not hold up. Are you saying China was the only beneficiary of NAFTA? China had nothing to do with the North American Free Trade Agreement. And again, Mexico's manufacturing output is less than 10% total of ours, their industry literally could not have had much effect.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I didn't say the Mexican people profited from NAFTA. The Mexican Peasant only recieved a subsistence wage. The multinationals were the real profiters form NAFTA. I didn't explain properly China, NAFTA. The purpose of NAFTA was suppose to build a viable middleclass in Mexico, and they were suppose to be a market for US goods. The industrial transfurs were taking place across the border, suddenly Clinton gave MFN to China, suddenly Mexico was forgotten all capital flowed to China. Mexico was out
louiethegreater 2 years ago
The reality of NAFTA is that is was never intended to have a lot of affect, and it never did. The fact is that trade barriers between the US Mexico and Canada were already minimal, as I explained already. NAFTA was essentially foreign policy, saying the US supported the reforms of the Salinas government. It had more political than economic affect, because again, very little changed.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, I watched NAFTA being sold to the American people. I wrote letters and made phone calls in opposition to NAFTA.
I don't know where you got that information, but I can assure you it is totally incorrect. You are obviously reading some historical documentation of it. I can assure you that you have it all wrong. I watched intently while this job giveaway was being sold to us. If the trade barrier was minimal why in the 1st year did we go fram a 1b trade surplus to a 13b deficit.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I explained the 5000% was an example, that is not carved in stone. We pay $60 to $160 for a pair of Nikes now. In some cases more.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Yes, and with your proposed massive tariffs, the prices of all imported shoes (that is to say, most shoes) would increase drastically, while adding few to no jobs. Even assuming your massive tariff is big enough to cover the wage difference between 3rd and 1st world workers, people would just have to shift spending toward shoes and away from other products, leading to job losses in other industries. Total unemployment would be unchanged or even harmed. All it would do would be hurt productivity
hoodoo961 2 years ago
You really don't know how much a pair of american made shoes would cost. It has been so long since we had a shoe industry. Americans might have to pay a couple of bucks more, but create jobs for thousands. We really don't know that because of not having american competion to begin with. We would not cause job losses in the U.S. we would cause job losses in Asia, if we paid more for shoes. We don't make our own consumer goods, check the store shelves.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Yes, this argument perfectly demonstrates the reason that economic nationalism grows during recessions, because people see others unemployment and think the response should be protectionism. But what you need to remember is that if we go protectionist, so will everyone else in the world. Our exporters will be screwed, as well as our importers, and prices will soar. The jobs created would be offset by jobs destroyed. And in the end, all we would do would be reduce productivity.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
What export? We have a trillion dollar trade deficit, why would we worry about it. The rest of the world is already protectionist, our government is the only govenment in the world, trying to give its industry away. Congress gave tax breaks to encourage some industries to outsource. Our importers, like who Walmart, Kmart, Target, who would care, mom and pop stores would appear again. The monopoly of the marts would be broken. Your offsetting of jobs is just amusing, I cannot take it serious
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I was referring to the 900 billion dollars of exports we had in 2009, and the 1.2 trillion of exports we had in 2008 (it went down because of the global recession). Thats what. And why would increasing consumer prices help mom and pop stores? The marts would be unaffected, its consumers who would suffer from higher prices.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
You brought us importers I didn't, i the marts importers? OK you told me about the exports, now tell me about the 1 trillion trade deficit that shows up on our store shelves. We imported the same as we exported. How many american jobs is that. Is that your concept of free trade, import as much as you export and have 20% of your population unemployed, while business makes record breaking profits. That sounds like a government of business, for the businesses. At any rate it is disgraceful.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Now I suppose I should discuss trade deficits. The thing to remember is that the trade deficit is equivalent to the equation S-I=X-M, or savings-investment=exports-imports. The reason we have a 1 trillion dollar trade deficit is because we invest more than our domestic amount of savings. But as a matter of accounting, we have to buy and sell the same amount to foreigners. So when we sell them assets to get capital to invest, we must purchase an equivalent amount in goods and services.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
My point on deficits is that Why worry about tariffs. Asia does not buy our products Western Europe does. The only trade surplus we have with China is scrap steel and soy beans. They do the value addes processes that require labor. Why would we care if they place a retaliatory tariff. They will not dump the dollar, we consume their exports they must keep us afloat. My point is domestic industries can compete given even a level playing field.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
If you don't believe that trade deficits are caused by low savings rates and not free trade agreements, consider this: we have had largely free trade for most of the 20th century (GATT). We started running consistent trade deficits in the 1980s, EXACTLY the same time our national savings rate began to fall. Remember, S-I=X-M, I am surprised you claim to have studied international trade but have not heard of this equation. Its the kind of thing you learn from a book and not from a Walmart trip.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo We have not had free trade for most of the 20th century, we protected our markets. The US economy for the most part was built on protectionism. GATT did not eliminate tariffs it only negotiated tariffs. The WTO eliminated tariffs, for the most part. That is recent history. Our savings rate began to fall because the jobs were already being oursourced the middleclass was being squeezed out of existance. The savings rate was a factor but not the cause, free trade was the cause.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
Let me explain this again, see if I can be more clear: we have been losing manufacturing jobs for a number of years, (and gaining some, but not as much). But you are wrong in diagnosing the cause: its not the free exchange of goods with other nations, its technology and automation. Automated production lines and robots have cost us more jobs than any number of Chinese and Mexican workers. If you want to bring back jobs, outlaw technological advancement. For fun, google search "Luddites".
hoodoo961 2 years ago
@hoodoo961 God if only we could go back to building everything with shovels and hammers, then we'd be the most prosperous nation in the world! God your an idiot....
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman Whoa buddy, I don't know what the hell you are referring to, but I never advocated anything like what you are talking about, "building everything with hammers and nails." If you can point out what comment of mine you are referring to, I will explain, but I think you mistook me for the other guy you were fighting with. If not, learn to read before calling people "idiots" for things they never said.
hoodoo961 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman I think I see what you are confused about, I was describing how advancements in productivity, especially in manufacturing, allow us to produce more output of industrial products with much less labor. This means our manufacturing employment is way down from what is used to be. But you failed to keep reading and see that I NEVER SAID IT WAS A BAD THING or that it should be any other way. I support both free trade and technological advancement. Maybe do a more throughout job reading.
hoodoo961 1 year ago
Hay hoodoo, You don't have to discuss deficits, you can just stay ignorant on the topic, or just hope no one mentions them when you are talking to them. Trade deficits mean we are buying more than we are selling. The reason for that is we do not manufacture our own needs, Asia does. The reason Asia does is because of .20/hr labor. The reason .20/hr labor is because of high profits for multinational corporations. Who pays for that: the American Worker.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
You failed to understands, so I will try again. Stay with me. the US buys and sells the same amount from abroad, because each purchase is also a sale. Now remember the equation I taught you earlier, S-I=X-M. You must know, we have a low savings rate in this country, but we also have a high rate of investment. That capital came from overseas, we got it by selling assets the foreigners (T bills, dollars, stocks, bonds). But as a result of those sales, we also had to buy an equivalent amount.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, Now listen closely and I will tell you how to change the scenario you just presented. Add a tariff at our borders, that will encourage investment in manufacruring in this country instead of Asia. We have a large, large consumer market we can make demands, on manufacturers.We are buying from abroad because we make nothing we consume. To bring wealth back to america we must start making things of value, instead of exporting raw material and allowing Asia to do the value added processes.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
A tariff at our borders would cause...higher prices, and would only divert investment from production of high-value capital goods to low value consumer goods. So once again, we would stop making airplanes and computers and autos and start making T-shirts and sneakers. Which would generate more wealth? And our consumer market is 300 million, far less than the 7 billion world market we would seal ourselves off from. We do far more value-added than China or Japan, again, the numbers are not there.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
I can guarantee you that the price of shoes would increase dramatically, displacing other spending. That is because prices are largely determined by the cost of inputs, and for shoes, the biggest input is labor. That means that most of the price of shoes is determined by the price of labor that makes them. And the difference between low-skilled 3rd and 1st world labor is tremendous, their labor costs a fraction of ours. So the price would necessarily sky-rocket.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
heres your argument on one pair of nikes.15 cents labor, 50 cents materials, 50 cents transportation, $1.15 total. Now subtract from retail cost, 60.- 1.15 = 58.85 profit. I would say there in plenty of room in that profit margin for a few bucks Americna labor. Even if you doubled or tripled my example there is still plenty of room. The old business model was 20% todays cheap labor model is 300%. I that the purpose of the American society, to be consumers of multionatonal corporations.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
I do not know the costs of shoes per se, but I would bet the farm that each pair costs substantially more than 1.15 to make. The raw-materials themselves cost much more than .50, I can assure you that. Plus you have to factor in the cost of the capital and plant, insurance, and the retail-markup that is probably most of the final price anyway. And the retailers are going to make the same profit regardless of the manufactures price. Everyone needs shoes, so the price is not going to be elastic.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
Hoodoo so you agree that the same shoe could be made in the US at a substancial profit an at the same price.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
No, you missed the point, the point is that when the manufacturing cost of the shoe goes up due to many times as expensive labor costs, the consumer price of the shoe would increase a lot. Tariffs=higher prices.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo, The price of shoes would not increase, if the cost of the tariff was taken out of the massive profit. Why should multinationals be rewarded so hansomly for making goods one hemisphere and selling in another. Tariffs also sends a message to them; manufacture domesticly or face tariffs. I don't see how manufacturing in some offshore country and bringingthe product back to their home country is even considered trade. It is just exploitation of the consumer and the laborer.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
This shoe thing is making it evident that you have not studied text-book economics. A tariff is a tax, and on a tax on goods represents what we called a "dead-weight loss," the cost of which is shared by the producer and consumer, but the producer passes his loss of to the consume with still higher prices. Taxes on goods cause the price to increase, seriously, this is econ 101 again.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
hoodoo nice try but you completely forget that the price increase allows domestic shoe makers to compete. Thats the whole purpose of the tariff.
louiethegreater 2 years ago
@louiethegreater And they prevent the average citizen from being able to buy more products, tarriffs always bring about a net loss, never a gain...
EricPNeuman 1 year ago
@EricPNeuman Mr. Eric, was you born under a tub, or just close to one?
louiethegreater 1 year ago
@louiethegreater Your use of the english language ain't not good...
EricPNeuman 1 year ago