MJ vs Kobe, i love it. Kobe and MJ's careers are so similar. start off young with hair, very athlectic but can't really shoot. work their way into becoming champions. Lose hair and athleticism when they get older and gain a solid jumpshot
This game didn't go to OT if it's the December 1997 game. Bulls won in regulation, but were crushed at the Great Western Forum two months later in Derek Fisher's first game as a starter because Nick Van Exel had gotten injured. Van Exel never regained the starter job again.
Kobe may have got swept by the mavs, but unlike the bulls, atleast he didn't get his ass kicked by lebron's heat! 4 straight loses after winning game 1 by 25 PTs?
62 wins, rose MVP, but against lebron in the playoffs, showed their true color, YELLOW. And pippen saying lebron is better than jordan? The ulimate insult!
@DoomDarenxbourg In cleveland lebron was following the same exact path as jordan. They said 27 year old Jordan was not on Magic's level. Magic had 5 rings Jordan had zero. Jordan had pippen yet he couldn't win a title. Someone "experts" even went as far to say Jordan possessed skills that couldn't lead his team to a title. There are so many categories right now where Lebron and Jordan are 1 and 2 its not even funny. History repeats itself.
@DoomDarenxbourg The Bulls weren't "yellow" as you put it, they were inexperienced. You have to remember they were 41-41 the previous two years and only Carlos Boozer who sucks had been past the first round in the playoffs. That season was something to be proud for the Bulls.
@pheeel17 The bulls swept the heat in the regular season last year & beat them by 25 in game 1 of the ECF! Then they lose the next 4 in a row? 2 of those losses were in chicago! Yes, the games were close, but 4 losses in a row, by a team they sewpt & beat by 25 in game 1?
@DoomDarenxbourg Dude, I'm a Bulls fan and as happy as the regular season sweep made me, it doesn't mean a thing. The Heat were a dysfunctional media circus all season and finally came together at the end The playoffs Heat were not the same team the reg season Heat. The Bulls won the 1st game 99-96 with Lebron out . Second game won by 4, and last game by 1. The Bulls were an overachieving team with no playoff experience beyond round 1. What happened in the ECF doesn't surpise me.
kobe is better than lebron simply because id rather have you go out driving and shooting then missing in the 4th... and jordan? is that even a fucking question? GOAT
shut up on mj better than kobe or vica versa... its getting old... none of us have won championships.. u arnt clever anymore for debating anything kobe, lebron, or mj related..
@waff1eirontmacsplat waff1eirontmacsplat = typical youtube troll. waff1eirontmacsplat = some one that is going no where in life. waff1eirontmacsplat = Keyboard Warrior. waff1eirontmacsplat = Probably not athletic at all. Do i need to go on?
Wow, I love watching y'all's channel and seeing crazy games with players that have become legend from when I was young. Thanks so much, and I'm subscribed now for sure!
one thing i notice is, for a guy who was 34 years old, he was still very quick and athletic. (he suffered no major knee or ankle injuries in his career). i think those who say Kobe does not belong in the same category ought to remember that.
@Laydeezmancris what are you on about Jordan in his sophmore year at the age of 21, he got a knee or ankle injury i cant remember and he didnt play a whole season, only like 18 games, thats a major injury? and he had 80% chance of getting injured again and not playing for a very long time.
@ScavengerJewsPRO re-read what i wrote, i mentioned knee and ankles because they're crucial to maintaining good lift in your jumper. your foot does too, but jordan suffered his foot injury when he was 22 years old. it's not the same as having THREE knee surgeries. also, keep in mind michael's sabbatical in 1993-1995. kobe has never taken time off from anything and to think he's still averaging 25-5-5 in spite of playing career lows in MPG and per 36 speaks volumes.
I like Kobe and could put him# 2, but it's a huge gap between from #1. Next time an NBA player is on a hot streak tearing up the league remember Michael Jordan was like that his whole career.
@moxeee23 there is not a huge gap between mj and kb. is jordan the best of all time? yes i agree he is. but kobe is the closest. and it is not a huge gap. not when kobe could pass him on the all time scoring list and only 1 behind him in the ring dept.
@TheJbrou KB is not the closest. Wilt, Kareem, Baylor etc has all been MORE Productive than Kobe Bryant. There is a huge gap. And that Gap is production. Just because he's a gaurd with similar moves as MJ, it doesn't make him as productive as MJ. Thats the point. Kobe is maybe top 15 all time. I can name at least 15 players I'd prefer over Kobe.
@DrmrGuy1979 Of course, this is Youtube, there are no intellectual debates on here since it is a public domain that any idiot can argue with it. So I throw trash at the garbagemen (that means you)
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Stupid assholes stop disrespecting Kobe and Jordan. Stop taking away what the other has done. They are both good players with Jordan being the best and Kobe trying to be the best with the possibility to be the best cause his career isn't over. Seriously, get a life and just appreciate what MJ and KB has done.
Are people seriously comparing Kobe and Michael ?? or even worse,saying that Kobe is better ??
Kobe played 31 more games than Michael and yet MJ has 5000 more points,800 rebounds,500 assists,900 steals and 300 more blocks...50% career shooter,Kobe-45%...5 time MVP,10 scoring titles vs 1 MVP,2 scoring titles...6/6 Finals MVP vs 2/5 Finals MVP...is that enough ? No ? 30.1 PPG vs 25.3 PPG...
me acuerdo haber visto este partido!!! de los más emocionantes que me acuerde.. siempre remando de atrás los bulls.. hay que destacar que toni kukoc se los comió crudo a los lakers ese dia... qué épocas aquellas!!!
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the greatest of all time!!!!!!!!!!!
No NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more MVP awards, played in more All-Star Games, or logged more seasons. He won rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champ, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time
back then anyway, and it was one game. it doesnt say anything about them, but it does about the Bulls BACK THEN with those big 3. get your shit straight
The only reason theres an argument to this is because some kids listen to what espn nba analysists say, there not gunna be like mj was so much better than kobe because they know both of them and wouldn't wanna make them look bad on tv and shit, the stats and rings don't lie, MJ is the best ever
im a kobe fan but no one will ever touch jordan he was the perfect basketball player and is gonna go down as the greates of all time regardless of what pippen says he got pippen 6 rings and almost 200 million dollars
i love both players it don't matter who's better mj 63 vs a championship squad celtics was unheard of great kobes 81 vs a water down ass raptors teams was jus as good saying the raptors R a NBA teams is it not??? this is the highest level of talent not the best team but still he did it inna NBA game Wilt put up 100 and lost
Kobe is not as good as MJ, I don't understand why ppl say this. Jordan did not shoot air balls the way Kobe does. Jordan was a better defender. Kobe is a poor mans Jordan, but that is by no means a bad thing, hes an amazing player, but MJ is the greatest of all time
In many ways Kobe is today what Jordan was at this stage in his career in '97..
Multiple championships,mvps,olympic medals, image tarnished by past scandals only to turn it around and when more awards,championships and literally a LEGEND on the court... I'm not arguing who is greater or better in any way, but you can't disagree with the legacy and impact both guys have left on or will leave with once it's all over for Kobe...
Next thing: MJ used 33,8% of his team possessions while on the floor, KB used 32,5%. The question is: what happens when we adjust all those facts to Bryant's stats by putting him into a "Jordan era", making both player's stats comparable? Something like this: 32.1-6.3-5.4-2.5-0.9 (.580 TS%) vs. 30.1-6.1-5.5-1.7-0.5 (.568 TS%). "Nowhere near"? "CRUSH in almost every statistical category"? Slightly better, that's what it is.
@WitasPL ok asshole. Exactly how the FUCK are you making these statistics "comparable"? Fucking faggot. Are you using the chinese conversion metric standard for converting 90's era basketball to modern day basketball? Gee i wasn;t aware of that conversion method why don't you make a fuck outta me and show us exactly how the fuck you came up with those numbers? you fucking coon. Nigger loving maggot.
An example: we're focusing at MJ's 10 best seasons (1986/87-1992/93, 1995/96-1997/98) and KB's 10 best seasons (2000/01-2009/10). We're taking a look at their averages. Jordan: 32.1-6.3-5.4-2.5-0.9 (.580 TS%); Bryant: 28.5-5.8-5.2-1.7-0.5 (.558 TS%). Average league pace and PPG during MJ's prime were: 93.3 and 104.3, for KB it's 91.3 and 97.2 (PTS/PACE: 1,084 and 1,064 respectively). The first clue: league pace, points scored and TS% were higher when Jordan was in his prime.
@123bigr (2)That takes me to the point: I really can't stand a guy speaking of "crushing Kobe in every statistical category", "MJ's superb and KB's trash FG%" etc. Compare the pace of the game 20 years ago and now. Compare the usage of both guys. Compare the trends in the league. Compare their productivity. Then speak of crushing, otherwise you're forced to consider Wilt as the greatest (that's your logic). My last thought: MJ was generally more successful. Statistically - slightly better.
@WitasPL Nah, that FG% is the strongest stat if you're a SHOOTING GUARD. I agree Jordan doesn't crush in every category, but he was the best clutch performer anyone has ever seen-then and now. So I can't say slightly better-I don't see anyone near Jordan no matter how close they get statistically because of those "clutch" games, those buzzer beaters in playoffs and finals. 123bigr choses to debate with stats, but I watched them both play at a mature age, and nothing comes close to MJ.
@YadaBeats I have no problem with that, really. The only thing a have a problem with is a bunch of zero-thinking crushing-statistics guys, that's all.
@WitasPL Yeah, I agree. Hey, MJ has said he doesn't feel he's the best all time and because there were too many great people to compare. I agree because I seen Magic do some amazing things late in his career, as well as Isiah-don't sleep on Kevin McHale post up. I think all of those guys were good at their position respectively and thats what matters. But Jordan takes the next level because he was so good that the idea of NBA hyping these new guys stemmed from what they did with him.
@WitasPL And you can say guys like Kobe and LeBron are benefactors for what Jordan laid out. Jordan also came into the league a more seasoned athlete (from NC) than Kobe was so it would be illogical to compare those rookie stats. I think that Jordan is oversenstionalized to a degree (for lucrative gain), but he was the best ever to play that position and what he did for the game of basketball will be forever unmatched-IMO that makes him the greatest.
@YadaBeats hey Im not here to compare one player over another, i love both to death. But i am 100% sure i've read this article on nba.com that kobe had more buzzer beaters or game winning shots near the end of the game than Jordan did. That article also led me to another website that show the highlight for every buzzer beat they made (jordan and kobe that is) something like 32 over 28, i forgot the exact number.
@sopa71479 I can't find a source of that 33/58 in the net (it appears only in some guys' oppinions, like yours :) ). 37/115 is not impressive but after all it's 32% (league average is below 30%).
@sopa71479 it's bad as long as his team doesn't win the games. Kobe's Lakers are 32 of 41 (78%) in playoffs series, Jordan's Bulls were 30 of 37 (81%). Kobe's still not getting crushed.
@sopa71479 Please, don't start that "Shaq winning titles alone" talk. He won 3 with Kobe and 1 with D-Wade (remember what D-Wade did to Dallas?), zero with Penny, zero with Eddie Jones etc. Is that Kobe needing Shaq or Shaq needing Kobe? Nevermind. Are those MJ's playoff series including Scottie Pippen? OR Scottie+Rodman?
@WitasPL Huge difference, and here is the difference. Kobe was traded to a laker team that won 53 games BEFORE BOTH he and Shaq came to the lakers the same year. Kobe was a huge reason why the lakers were successful from 2000-2002 but he wasnt the MAIN reason, Shaq was. Why are you trying to say MJ wasnt the MAIN reason why the bulls were successful because if you are thats a pretty stupid statement
@sopa71479 Read my previous comments. I said "MJ was more succesful than KB". More MVPs, more fans around the world etc. The point is: take Shaq away from Bryant and you get some early-round exits, the Bryant away from Shaq and you get the same, take Pippen away from Jordan and you get 41 shot attempts and 63 points for nothing.
@sopa71479 OMG, then Pip's winning 55 season games and getting a line of 22-9-6-3-1 (1994). It's a team game and MJ wasn't playing 1 on 5, get over it.
@WitasPL um ok but you were giving a scenario of Taking players away from one another. What im saying is if Pip NEVER paired up with MJ, Pip would not have become the player he became. Pip even outright admits its that MJ changed his game forever.
@WitasPL i know i was asking that i wanted clarification. BTW in regards to pip, do you really think pip would have become the defender he became if it wasn't for the fact that he had to defend MJ everyday in practice?
@sopa71479 do you really think MJ would have become the player he became if it wasn't for the fact that he had to play against pip everyday in practice?
Shaq in the early 2ks would have won a ring with any talented swing man. Kobe was in every sense of the word replaceable. A.I. could have won 3 with Shaq back then, same with T-Mac or even Vince! That was a one sided relationship, Kobe NEEDED Shaq waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more than Shaq needed Kobe.
@Kingjd87 Imagine this: if Iverson was 2 feet taller or if Duncan was playing PG or if blah blah blah. I regret I got into this "what if..." talk. Hmm, wait a second... Well, actually it's not "what if..." type of arguing, it's some kind of a dogma: "Shaq would have won 7 titles with his mother as a sidekick as Carl Lewis and Muhammad Ali would have won the olympic gold in men's table tennis team, I guarantee you that". Get back to earth, watch the game, have fun and stop this b.s.
That was cute. But made no sense. The way A.I. played back then (MVP) level, the way Vince and T-Mac played extremely efficient scorers, T-Mac even more so than Kobe, proves that they would have done just as well alongside Shaq. People said Wade and Bron wouldn't work out, we all know how that turned out. So yea Kobe was replaceable back then dude. Sorry that it hurts your feelings...
@WitasPL The other difference MJ was drafted to Bulls team that was in the middle of rebuilding. Kobe was playing on a team that was considered a title contendar during his rookie year. When Kobe was drafter he wasnt the center piece of the team, MJ was huge difference
Shaq with Penny had a great squad but not nearly a talented bench as the Lakers and not a HOF coach like Phil. That's why they didn't win a ring. Every team Shaq was on in his prime was a contender. Kobe as "THE GUY" 05-'07 never got out of the first round.....FACT! KOBE NEVER WON A RING WITHOUT A DOMINANT BIG MAN. Jordan did....in an era full of legendary big men!
@Kingjd87 I've already told what I think about this type of gabbling so please find youself some other friend to share your expert NBA and title winning know-how and stop insulting my intelligence.
@Kingjd87 "Kobe never won a ring without a dominant big man" You can replace Kobe's name there with Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. As you can see, this fact really doesn't mean anything. Isiah Thomas won back-to-back rings without a *dominant* big man as well (Laimbeer, Mahorn, & Salley were solid players but NOT dominant). Is he better than the aforementioned legends? NO. And guess who LED the Lakers in Win Shares during their dominating '01 playoffs (16-1)? Kobe.
Exactly you can replace Kobe with all those names and the same result, thus solidifying MJ as the greatest. That's what separated MJ from the rest he had the impact of a big man at 6'6 (barley). Never before has the league seen such dominance at the SG position. And quite honestly, they'll never see it again. THERE IS ONLY ONE MJ and only one cheap imitation.....Kobe. lmao
@Kingjd87 "That's what separated MJ from the rest" I see my mention of Isiah Thomas flew over your head lol. I don't deny that MJ's the greatest to ever play the game, but give credit where its due. You can't say Shaq was the "main reason" for Kobe's '01 ring if its Kobe who LED the Lakers in Win Shares. Heck, it was when Kobe averaged 33 points (51.2% FG), 7 rebounds, 7 assists against the Spurs (#1 defensive rating) in WCF that Shaq himself said Kobe's the "best player in the league by far."
I saw the Isiah mention but it was not even worth it to bring it up bc Isiah didn't make 1/4 the impact Jordan did. I'd just be wasting characters trying to defend MJ's greatness over Isiah's. And Kobe is a great player, I'm not denying it. But to say Kobe had just as much to do with the 1st 3 rings as Shaq did is outrageous and not true. The reason Kobe did so well in 2001 was bc Shaq commanded a tripe team. LMAO It left multiple wing players wide open.
@Kingjd87 If the only point you're trying to make is that Jordan is the best, then there's no point in arguing since I agree with that. Yet, in your attempt to do so, you made a rather weak point of bringing up "a dominant big man." Having one or not doesn't take away or add on to a legend's greatness. Shaq had the most impact because the triangle revolved around him; his USG% was higher than anyone on that team. Yet even with his presence, Kobe put up captain numbers (29 pts, 7 reb, 6 ast).
How is it a weak argument when the truth of the matter is SHAQ REGULARLY COMMANDED DOUBLE AND EVEN TRIPLE TEAM COVERAGE! That left multiple wings players open INCLUDING KOBE! Don't you think that helps Kobe out a bit???lol I love Kobe bro, but the truth is Shaq would have most likely won 3 with Phil Jackson and any great wing player of that time (Tmac, Vince, A.I. etc...). Kobe was replaceable back then, Shaq was not, he was the corner stone!
@Kingjd87 I completely disagree with the claim that putting any of those wing players on the 3peat Lakers would have yielded the same impact. AI's presence would piss Shaq off even more than Kobe, since he rarely passed and shot WAY more inefficiently than Kobe. Vince and Tmac wouldn't average 33/7/7 against the top defensive team in the league. And don't make it seem like Kobe was left wide open the vast majority of the time. I'm not slighting Shaq's impact, but you're being disingenuous here.
AI and Shaq would have gotten along fine for the simple fact that AI would finally have someone capable of scoring other than himself. AI ball hogged on the sixers bc they LITERALLY had no other scoring option. Tmac was more productive THAN KOBE back then and carried a franchise on his back (Orlando) with little to no help. Vince was a fucking beast in the early 2ks and took the Raptors pretty deep in the playoffs. I think any of them would have won three with Shaq.
@Kingjd87 Given that AI ball hogged, it's hard to claim that other players *couldn't* contribute more to scoring IF he actually passed them the ball more. 3 other starters for the sixers shot more efficiently than he did. AI's shot selection was horrible; Shaq would have hated him. Regarding the other wing players, one can only speculate about their productivity in playing out West (Tmac's PER dropped significantly in Houston). The East in the early 2ks was viewed as the JV conference lol.
@gmn545 McGrady's downhill slide with the Rockets was mostly due to his back spams, not playing a tougher western conference. McGrady in the early 00's was just as good as Kobe on the offensive end. Same goes for Vince Carter. What separated Kobe from these guys was his defense. Neither McGrady or Carter has ever made an all defensive team, I think people don't take the defensive aspect into consideration. But I do believe these guys with Shaq would still have been a dominate duo.
@gmn545 Would they have been just as dominant? No probably not. Would they still have dominated the league? Highly plausible that they would. And you're right about AI. Still, 45% twice in 2 seasons in Denver vs twice in 10 seasons in Philly. I can only believe that type of inconsistency was due more from such a lack of offensive talent around him than it was bad shot selection.
@gmn545 As far as AI goes, he dropped his attempts from 25 to 20 as soon as he arrived in Denver where there was more talent around him. Kobe was attempting around 20 shots as Shaq teammate. Iverson could have coexisted with Shaq with 20 attempts a game. Iverson was also consistently much more efficient when he had talent around him like he did in Denver. He went from shooting over 43% only once in 10 seasons with Philly to 45% his entire stint with Denver.
@UR2H Slight correction to you. AI's 2nd season he shot 46% and 44.7% in '06, so that'd be *twice* getting over 43%. AI, similar to Kobe, was a volume shooter who couldn't put up 27 pts+ without taking a lot of shots (and missing the majority of them). It wasn't just about talent surrounding him; his shot selection was poor. Take it from Shaq ('04 finals kobe lol), such a style pisses him off. Yet, Kobe (as starter) was always more efficient & more clutch - which LA needed a lot, even with Shaq.
As a matter of fact look at the first three peat as a whole, not just 2001. Look at the highlights of most of the games. You'll see Kobe driving to the paint and dishing it to Shaq or you'll see wing players (Fisher, Fox, Kobe) all taking wide open or barley contested shots because of the attention given to Shaq. That was the story of the 2k Lakers. Shaq's presence leaves others WIDE OPEN!
@Kingjd87 I watched every Lakers game (being an LA fan) in the playoffs during the 3peat years. And you really are short-changing Kobe's impact. There's a reason why Shaq publicly stated that Kobe was the "best player in the league by far", after that Spurs series. And don't discount the several crucial playoff games where Shaq sat due to foul trouble and Kobe came to rescue.
@gmn545 You do understand however that during the Shaq-Kobe years in L.A., Shaq being on the floor completely opened up things for Kobe right? He never had to face a double team, had plenty of pass of space on his side of the floor to operate, I mean this makes a huge different for a guy like that. Shaq even when he wasn't scoring was a huge effect on the game just by being out there. Now there are examples of Kobe being great then (2000 Finals, Game 4) but make no mistake, Shaq was the key.
Not only was Shaq the key, he was the franchise player. They didn't draft Kobe 13th to be the face of the franchise. LMAO. They drafted a young talented SG with potential to COMPLIMENT the big guy. Shaq is THE MAIN reason why Kobe has 3 of his 5 rings. No doubt about it!!
Okay he was "traded" to the Lakers after being selected 13th by Charlotte. My point is why wasn't he drafted higher if he was looked at as a franchise player by any squad??? Kobe simply wasn't ready in his first few years hence he rode the bench. lmao
@Kingjd87 Exactly right. They acquired swingmen and shooters around the time to compliment Shaq. Back then it was still the belief, with the exception of Jordan, that you needed a franchise big man to win. And the Lakers had always been known for that and that's why Shaq going to L.A. was such a big deal.
@Antrizzle2009 Shaq was certainly a dominant presence that opened things up. Yet, don't confuse Phil's choice to run the triangle around the Center with a supposed inability of Kobe to be option #1. I credit both Shaq and Kobe as two alpha-dogs that led their team, and Phil himself agrees with me.
"He's right up there. There aren't many guys who can lay claim to five rings as the prime mover of a basketball club." -- Phil Jackson, when asked where Kobe ranks with MJ, June 23, 2010
@gmn545 Well anytime the MJ-Kobe debate comes up, Phil always tries to be as diplomatic as possible. That's why he always puts Kobe in a positive light. The truth is that Phil knows Shaq was the more important piece to those title runs and said as much in his book. And Kobe was a role player when he first got to L.A. In fact I don't think he was an "alpha dog" till about 2001 or so. Coincidentally, that's when all the problems between him and Shaq started, even during their title runs.
@Antrizzle2009 I know Kobe initially came to LA as a role/bench player, because he had 3 all-star vets on his team (Shaq, Van exel, Jones) who were all going to get their minutes/stats. Point is, if Kobe became an alpha-dog circa '01, then it can't be said that Shaq "carried" Kobe through their playoff runs, especially when Kobe LED the team in win shares for '01. Shaq was the centerpiece due to the triangle being based around him, but given Kobe's stats, he'd be option #1 on any other team.
@gmn545 I guess my point was that there are some things you just can't tell by reading a stat sheet. Like the fact that entire defenses back then focused on stopping Shaq. He was always the #1 concern of every defense in the league. Shaq's mere prescence on the court opened up alot of areas for Kobe to work, especially in that style of offense and considering the improvements Shaq made in his passing out of the post. Look at the 04/05 season and see how Kobe struggled to make the adjustment.
Agreed. The Lakers were pretty much built on throwing the ball into Shaq, draw the double, then find the open shooter. Without Shaq, former Lakers like Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Devean George wouldn't nearly be as effective.
@Airmaster167 Horry was pretty effective with the Rockets before coming to LA. And besides, he was a role player, it's his job to support the stars, not the other way around.
@Antrizzle2009 Yes of course but for MJs entire career he had Pippen which I think we can all agree was a HUGE key, that along with having the 7 time reigning rebounding champion in Rodman, 2 excellent 3 point shooters with Kerr and Kukoc and 7'2" Luc Longley. I think we can all agree MJ had just as much help as Kobe if not more
@movalcadillac The Bulls were a great TEAM, I've never disputed that. But there were times when Jordan most certainly did have to carry them. Pippen was hurt a great deal of '97 and '98 and was not the same player he was earlier for example.
@Antrizzle2009 Just as Kobe had to carry his team through playoff series, Pippen is a Hall of Famer along with Rodman, Gasol, Artest, Odom, Fisher are not!
@movalcadillac Oops lemme fix my post "Gasol is one of the best big-men an all-star and Odom is the best sixth man,Artest and fisher are role players,like Kukoc and Steve Kurr,atleast the Lakers had somewhat a good bence,the bulls had- Randy Brown(not good) Jud Buechler(not good) Jason Caffey(Not good) James Edwards(Not a good) Jack Haley(Not good) Steve Kerr(Role Player,sharp shooter) John Salley(Not good!) Dickey Simpkins(Not good) Bill Wennington(Not good!) Toni Kukoc(Good player)
The Lakers have Pau Gasol (all star top 2 PF in the league), Andrew Bynum when healthy the 2nd best Center in the league, Odom one of the most versatile players in the league, Artest, former DPOTY, Matt Barnes, one of the best wing defenders in the league, Fisher, a great leader and crafty veteran. And with that what did Kobe do against Dallas....HE GOT SWEPT! You give MJ that squad and he'd win a ring every fucking year!
@Kingjd87 STFU! Anyone can say "Oh Kobe had all these great players! OMG! He did nothing with them!" It took MJ SEVEN FUCKING YEARS TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH HOF SCOTTIE PIPPEN AND HE HAD HORACE GRANT AND RON HARPER ALL 3 ARE 6
Did you seeee Kobe Clank those free throws AND the 3 at the end of the game?
lovahman 1 week ago
MJ vs Kobe, i love it. Kobe and MJ's careers are so similar. start off young with hair, very athlectic but can't really shoot. work their way into becoming champions. Lose hair and athleticism when they get older and gain a solid jumpshot
TheTenaciousTim 2 weeks ago
Hugo.... No one gives a fuck
TheCocoadizzy 2 weeks ago
i hate the bulls.
hugosaenz21 1 month ago
4:39 that is not a travel.
bigeights 2 months ago
4:45 that is not a travel.
bigeights 2 months ago
kobe choked the clutch free throws
blinkgenre 2 months ago
jordan 3 steps at 4:19?
phosoyumupmybum 2 months ago
This game didn't go to OT if it's the December 1997 game. Bulls won in regulation, but were crushed at the Great Western Forum two months later in Derek Fisher's first game as a starter because Nick Van Exel had gotten injured. Van Exel never regained the starter job again.
TheEclectic 2 months ago
Kobe may have got swept by the mavs, but unlike the bulls, atleast he didn't get his ass kicked by lebron's heat! 4 straight loses after winning game 1 by 25 PTs?
62 wins, rose MVP, but against lebron in the playoffs, showed their true color, YELLOW. And pippen saying lebron is better than jordan? The ulimate insult!
DoomDarenxbourg 3 months ago
@DoomDarenxbourg In cleveland lebron was following the same exact path as jordan. They said 27 year old Jordan was not on Magic's level. Magic had 5 rings Jordan had zero. Jordan had pippen yet he couldn't win a title. Someone "experts" even went as far to say Jordan possessed skills that couldn't lead his team to a title. There are so many categories right now where Lebron and Jordan are 1 and 2 its not even funny. History repeats itself.
colossalko 1 month ago
@DoomDarenxbourg The Bulls weren't "yellow" as you put it, they were inexperienced. You have to remember they were 41-41 the previous two years and only Carlos Boozer who sucks had been past the first round in the playoffs. That season was something to be proud for the Bulls.
pheeel17 1 month ago
@pheeel17 The bulls swept the heat in the regular season last year & beat them by 25 in game 1 of the ECF! Then they lose the next 4 in a row? 2 of those losses were in chicago! Yes, the games were close, but 4 losses in a row, by a team they sewpt & beat by 25 in game 1?
DoomDarenxbourg 1 month ago
@DoomDarenxbourg Dude, I'm a Bulls fan and as happy as the regular season sweep made me, it doesn't mean a thing. The Heat were a dysfunctional media circus all season and finally came together at the end The playoffs Heat were not the same team the reg season Heat. The Bulls won the 1st game 99-96 with Lebron out . Second game won by 4, and last game by 1. The Bulls were an overachieving team with no playoff experience beyond round 1. What happened in the ECF doesn't surpise me.
pheeel17 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
KB>MJ
DraikonZ3 3 months ago
kobe is better than lebron simply because id rather have you go out driving and shooting then missing in the 4th... and jordan? is that even a fucking question? GOAT
b3nfreakinwallace 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
shut up on mj better than kobe or vica versa... its getting old... none of us have won championships.. u arnt clever anymore for debating anything kobe, lebron, or mj related..
zonjordan 3 months ago
Comment removed
zonjordan 3 months ago
but...put simply...MJ = The Best!
sonofscars 3 months ago
man jordans mid range was automatic
jetpack0726 4 months ago
@hoopsencyclopedia Do you have this same game with more of Pip's highlights? Thanks for the vids!
DrkWing290 4 months ago
kobe looking like a damn fool out there
GreatkingAlexander 4 months ago
its a very high scoring game!
ohyeah061696 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@waff1eirontmacsplat waff1eirontmacsplat = typical youtube troll. waff1eirontmacsplat = some one that is going no where in life. waff1eirontmacsplat = Keyboard Warrior. waff1eirontmacsplat = Probably not athletic at all. Do i need to go on?
kob3bryant8 4 months ago
too bad u cant thumbs up descriptions... lol
rabbitcougar 4 months ago
Wow, I love watching y'all's channel and seeing crazy games with players that have become legend from when I was young. Thanks so much, and I'm subscribed now for sure!
DDRaHolic 5 months ago
look at how skinny phil jackson was !!!
SwagNificent3 5 months ago
Kobe=bench at this time lol. They were afraid he would get violated in his young age if played 40mins in this era.
vitalcoordinates 5 months ago 2
@vitalcoordinates Playing against Jordan in his primetime is probably like a colonoscopy! =P
TheBrotherOfSuperman 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
jktng 5 months ago
1:30 Kobe schooled
jktng 5 months ago
Kobe and Shaq's Lakers still using the 80's jerseys.. VINTAGE!!!
maximumtune01 5 months ago
5 rings. Move on
MrStinky24 5 months ago
KB is nothin in this era :P
elfenelf 5 months ago
Imagine just being in the era of MJ... i would be happy to be the guy to be absolutely posterised if it was MJ
tytyaggie 5 months ago
one thing i notice is, for a guy who was 34 years old, he was still very quick and athletic. (he suffered no major knee or ankle injuries in his career). i think those who say Kobe does not belong in the same category ought to remember that.
Laydeezmancris 5 months ago
@Laydeezmancris what are you on about Jordan in his sophmore year at the age of 21, he got a knee or ankle injury i cant remember and he didnt play a whole season, only like 18 games, thats a major injury? and he had 80% chance of getting injured again and not playing for a very long time.
ScavengerJewsPRO 5 months ago
@ScavengerJewsPRO re-read what i wrote, i mentioned knee and ankles because they're crucial to maintaining good lift in your jumper. your foot does too, but jordan suffered his foot injury when he was 22 years old. it's not the same as having THREE knee surgeries. also, keep in mind michael's sabbatical in 1993-1995. kobe has never taken time off from anything and to think he's still averaging 25-5-5 in spite of playing career lows in MPG and per 36 speaks volumes.
Laydeezmancris 5 months ago
@Laydeezmancris wait to your orginal comment was it to kobe or mj at 34 ?
ScavengerJewsPRO 5 months ago
to end all the conjecture 23>24, enough said.
randomaznpopper 5 months ago 2
MJ=KB
pnd024 5 months ago
I like Kobe and could put him# 2, but it's a huge gap between from #1. Next time an NBA player is on a hot streak tearing up the league remember Michael Jordan was like that his whole career.
moxeee23 5 months ago
@moxeee23 there is not a huge gap between mj and kb. is jordan the best of all time? yes i agree he is. but kobe is the closest. and it is not a huge gap. not when kobe could pass him on the all time scoring list and only 1 behind him in the ring dept.
TheJbrou 5 months ago
@TheJbrou KB is not the closest. Wilt, Kareem, Baylor etc has all been MORE Productive than Kobe Bryant. There is a huge gap. And that Gap is production. Just because he's a gaurd with similar moves as MJ, it doesn't make him as productive as MJ. Thats the point. Kobe is maybe top 15 all time. I can name at least 15 players I'd prefer over Kobe.
NBAGOATS 5 months ago
@DrmrGuy1979 Well played sir, well played
movalcadillac 6 months ago
@DrmrGuy1979 Of course, this is Youtube, there are no intellectual debates on here since it is a public domain that any idiot can argue with it. So I throw trash at the garbagemen (that means you)
movalcadillac 6 months ago
@movalcadillac actually in a 2011 espn survey, fans voted MJ as the most admired athlete.
1986jazzman 6 months ago
how does one have an "all night golf outing"?
marzilyas 6 months ago
who'd u rather have on ur team? Without question, it'd be MJ. no need to bring out all these dumb stats. use ur eyes.
therockbanddude 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Stupid assholes stop disrespecting Kobe and Jordan. Stop taking away what the other has done. They are both good players with Jordan being the best and Kobe trying to be the best with the possibility to be the best cause his career isn't over. Seriously, get a life and just appreciate what MJ and KB has done.
ambrosiaaaaaa 6 months ago
haha kobe was so wooky at 18!! Mj destroyed him lol
TheKobe24mamba 6 months ago
Haha, look at how not clutch kobe is at the end. owned
ctraiNswagga 6 months ago
Are people seriously comparing Kobe and Michael ?? or even worse,saying that Kobe is better ??
Kobe played 31 more games than Michael and yet MJ has 5000 more points,800 rebounds,500 assists,900 steals and 300 more blocks...50% career shooter,Kobe-45%...5 time MVP,10 scoring titles vs 1 MVP,2 scoring titles...6/6 Finals MVP vs 2/5 Finals MVP...is that enough ? No ? 30.1 PPG vs 25.3 PPG...
nemke1990 6 months ago
WHAT A COMEBACK!
MrOrbu8 6 months ago
me acuerdo haber visto este partido!!! de los más emocionantes que me acuerde.. siempre remando de atrás los bulls.. hay que destacar que toni kukoc se los comió crudo a los lakers ese dia... qué épocas aquellas!!!
tomycarr 6 months ago 2
Comment removed
tomycarr 6 months ago
memories were back when Kobe was just starting and building up his shooting like Jordan
squeezeNlemon 6 months ago
ahhhh, MJ' shoes i remembered that, i had one before but its old and broken since i was kid =(
chrisbank2 6 months ago
WTFing KOBE ?!
LeKiom 6 months ago
TODAYS BASKETBALL is not the same!
209sub0 6 months ago
It's easy to forget that MJ was already in his mid-30's in these games. An age when most players become average.
jp3813 6 months ago
damn kobe came a long way from this game
philrich08 6 months ago
anyone notice there was no teamwork?
hercmpou88 7 months ago
anyone notoce there was no teamwork??
hercmpou88 7 months ago
MJ>KB
DaKingOfU55 7 months ago 44
@DaKingOfU55 really!? this is news to me! old news
quakov 5 months ago
tony kukoc = hugh jackman
ezraj80 7 months ago
omg Randy Brown throwdown at the end! forgot about that, got me off my couch when I saw that the first time on TV
Kestrel222 7 months ago
kobe only had 10 mins haha
NewMoney527 7 months ago
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is the greatest of all time!!!!!!!!!!!
No NBA player had ever scored more points, blocked more shots, won more MVP awards, played in more All-Star Games, or logged more seasons. He won rookie of the Year, member of six NBA championship teams, six-time NBA MVP, two-time NBA Finals MVP, 19-time All-Star, two-time scoring champ, and a member of the NBA 35th and 50th Anniversary All-Time
johno0217 7 months ago
I wish they would've played against each other that year. It would've been the greatest NBA final in the History of Basketball.
raulrolon7 7 months ago
fuck kobe.. trying to be a hero since day 1 arent we??
TheLollipopsound 7 months ago 2
LOL at 3:22 fucking clutch .... rofl
TheLollipopsound 7 months ago 3
The Lakers were beating MJ Bulls 57-36 at end of the 2nd quarter with the 2 rookies Kobe Bryant and Oneal.
I think that says a lot about them.
albertoz34 7 months ago
@albertoz34 yep it says alot, MJ would kill kobe anyway :)
BlaZiiNxIIxGuNn3R 7 months ago
@albertoz34
back then anyway, and it was one game. it doesnt say anything about them, but it does about the Bulls BACK THEN with those big 3. get your shit straight
Arbiterisl33t69 7 months ago
@iBexQuiick
If he sucked then why does he have 5 championship rings and the best player in the league and scored 81 points in one game?
LEFTY91335 7 months ago
That Jordan basket on Kobe is such a huge fucking travel, it isn't even funny. And any punks who say it's not don't know shit about basketball.
Pizuzuzimmer 7 months ago
@Pizuzuzimmer
pretty sure it was 2 steps, which isnt a travel at all, but maybe you're right, what time is it?
Arbiterisl33t69 7 months ago
um to all the haters kobe was pretty fuckin young in this game so shut up
lawlessvictory 7 months ago
@lawlessvictory kobe sucks
iBexQuiiCk 7 months ago
@iBexQuiiCk
you know he doesnt, why even talk shit
Arbiterisl33t69 7 months ago
kobe sucks big time
cronus6282 7 months ago
bahahahaha kobe got fucking dunked on
MTF907 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
bahahahaha kobe got fucking dunked on
MTF907 7 months ago
if i had a dollar for every pixel in this video i would have 150.000 dollars
VeryFunnyKid 7 months ago
rodmans picture looks gay hahaha
jhino25 8 months ago
Shaq about Kobe (2001): "I told Kobe that he was my idol. I'm serious. He's playing phenomenal. I think he's the best player in the league, by far."
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL Shaq to Kobe (2008): "Tell me how my ass tastes."
Boff122 7 months ago
@Boff122 Kobe (2010): "I just got one more than Shaq."
WitasPL 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Boff122 7 months ago 2
The only reason theres an argument to this is because some kids listen to what espn nba analysists say, there not gunna be like mj was so much better than kobe because they know both of them and wouldn't wanna make them look bad on tv and shit, the stats and rings don't lie, MJ is the best ever
lyricalrap420 8 months ago
Man . guys. these 2 players are great. so i dont get why you guys are arguing.
You guys should never compare those too.
tokufou3 8 months ago
im a kobe fan but no one will ever touch jordan he was the perfect basketball player and is gonna go down as the greates of all time regardless of what pippen says he got pippen 6 rings and almost 200 million dollars
Agrewal009 8 months ago
i love both players it don't matter who's better mj 63 vs a championship squad celtics was unheard of great kobes 81 vs a water down ass raptors teams was jus as good saying the raptors R a NBA teams is it not??? this is the highest level of talent not the best team but still he did it inna NBA game Wilt put up 100 and lost
Timario007 8 months ago
kobe the new goat vs mj the old goat
thug8200 8 months ago
MJ Is GOAT, no '' Who Is Second '' Kobe is better bullshit, MJ is GOAT, no need for stats, MJ is just better, fuck of with all the gay arguements.
TheDamonDuncan 8 months ago
Kobe is not as good as MJ, I don't understand why ppl say this. Jordan did not shoot air balls the way Kobe does. Jordan was a better defender. Kobe is a poor mans Jordan, but that is by no means a bad thing, hes an amazing player, but MJ is the greatest of all time
EAchankre 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
type "short guy dunks" in the youtube search box to see a 5ft 5in guy dunking a 10ft hoop
bctrack24 8 months ago 50
@bctrack24 fu
Merthin89 8 months ago
In many ways Kobe is today what Jordan was at this stage in his career in '97..
Multiple championships,mvps,olympic medals, image tarnished by past scandals only to turn it around and when more awards,championships and literally a LEGEND on the court... I'm not arguing who is greater or better in any way, but you can't disagree with the legacy and impact both guys have left on or will leave with once it's all over for Kobe...
RickRomo 8 months ago
who says tht lebron is the best shit watch these vids and say can lebron do tht??? helllllllllllll noooooooooooooaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.
Nugget500O 8 months ago
Excuse me, there's a mistake, it should be "(...) 96.3* and 104.3, for KB it's 91.3 and 97.2 (PTS/PACE: 1,084 and 1,064 respectively)"
WitasPL 8 months ago
Next thing: MJ used 33,8% of his team possessions while on the floor, KB used 32,5%. The question is: what happens when we adjust all those facts to Bryant's stats by putting him into a "Jordan era", making both player's stats comparable? Something like this: 32.1-6.3-5.4-2.5-0.9 (.580 TS%) vs. 30.1-6.1-5.5-1.7-0.5 (.568 TS%). "Nowhere near"? "CRUSH in almost every statistical category"? Slightly better, that's what it is.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL ok asshole. Exactly how the FUCK are you making these statistics "comparable"? Fucking faggot. Are you using the chinese conversion metric standard for converting 90's era basketball to modern day basketball? Gee i wasn;t aware of that conversion method why don't you make a fuck outta me and show us exactly how the fuck you came up with those numbers? you fucking coon. Nigger loving maggot.
MrYoyoma33 8 months ago
@MrYoyoma33 trolling asshole
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 fuck you. im a troller because im calling your boy out? fuck otta here nigga.
MrYoyoma33 8 months ago
@MrYoyoma33 that and because you´re a rascist fuck
sopa71479 8 months ago
An example: we're focusing at MJ's 10 best seasons (1986/87-1992/93, 1995/96-1997/98) and KB's 10 best seasons (2000/01-2009/10). We're taking a look at their averages. Jordan: 32.1-6.3-5.4-2.5-0.9 (.580 TS%); Bryant: 28.5-5.8-5.2-1.7-0.5 (.558 TS%). Average league pace and PPG during MJ's prime were: 93.3 and 104.3, for KB it's 91.3 and 97.2 (PTS/PACE: 1,084 and 1,064 respectively). The first clue: league pace, points scored and TS% were higher when Jordan was in his prime.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@123bigr (2)That takes me to the point: I really can't stand a guy speaking of "crushing Kobe in every statistical category", "MJ's superb and KB's trash FG%" etc. Compare the pace of the game 20 years ago and now. Compare the usage of both guys. Compare the trends in the league. Compare their productivity. Then speak of crushing, otherwise you're forced to consider Wilt as the greatest (that's your logic). My last thought: MJ was generally more successful. Statistically - slightly better.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL Nah, that FG% is the strongest stat if you're a SHOOTING GUARD. I agree Jordan doesn't crush in every category, but he was the best clutch performer anyone has ever seen-then and now. So I can't say slightly better-I don't see anyone near Jordan no matter how close they get statistically because of those "clutch" games, those buzzer beaters in playoffs and finals. 123bigr choses to debate with stats, but I watched them both play at a mature age, and nothing comes close to MJ.
YadaBeats 8 months ago
@YadaBeats I have no problem with that, really. The only thing a have a problem with is a bunch of zero-thinking crushing-statistics guys, that's all.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL Yeah, I agree. Hey, MJ has said he doesn't feel he's the best all time and because there were too many great people to compare. I agree because I seen Magic do some amazing things late in his career, as well as Isiah-don't sleep on Kevin McHale post up. I think all of those guys were good at their position respectively and thats what matters. But Jordan takes the next level because he was so good that the idea of NBA hyping these new guys stemmed from what they did with him.
YadaBeats 8 months ago
@WitasPL And you can say guys like Kobe and LeBron are benefactors for what Jordan laid out. Jordan also came into the league a more seasoned athlete (from NC) than Kobe was so it would be illogical to compare those rookie stats. I think that Jordan is oversenstionalized to a degree (for lucrative gain), but he was the best ever to play that position and what he did for the game of basketball will be forever unmatched-IMO that makes him the greatest.
YadaBeats 8 months ago
@YadaBeats hey Im not here to compare one player over another, i love both to death. But i am 100% sure i've read this article on nba.com that kobe had more buzzer beaters or game winning shots near the end of the game than Jordan did. That article also led me to another website that show the highlight for every buzzer beat they made (jordan and kobe that is) something like 32 over 28, i forgot the exact number.
aznhandsomeboy 8 months ago
@aznhandsomeboy kobe is 37-115 in clutch situation, that not very clutch
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 what about MJ?
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL 33-58
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 I can't find a source of that 33/58 in the net (it appears only in some guys' oppinions, like yours :) ). 37/115 is not impressive but after all it's 32% (league average is below 30%).
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL true but at the same time kobe's 4th qtr shooting in the playoffs, is pretty damn bad
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 it's bad as long as his team doesn't win the games. Kobe's Lakers are 32 of 41 (78%) in playoffs series, Jordan's Bulls were 30 of 37 (81%). Kobe's still not getting crushed.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL Question are those playoff series including Shaq? Becaue if thats the case Kose was bailed out a lot more times than MJ was bailed out
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 Please, don't start that "Shaq winning titles alone" talk. He won 3 with Kobe and 1 with D-Wade (remember what D-Wade did to Dallas?), zero with Penny, zero with Eddie Jones etc. Is that Kobe needing Shaq or Shaq needing Kobe? Nevermind. Are those MJ's playoff series including Scottie Pippen? OR Scottie+Rodman?
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL Huge difference, and here is the difference. Kobe was traded to a laker team that won 53 games BEFORE BOTH he and Shaq came to the lakers the same year. Kobe was a huge reason why the lakers were successful from 2000-2002 but he wasnt the MAIN reason, Shaq was. Why are you trying to say MJ wasnt the MAIN reason why the bulls were successful because if you are thats a pretty stupid statement
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 Read my previous comments. I said "MJ was more succesful than KB". More MVPs, more fans around the world etc. The point is: take Shaq away from Bryant and you get some early-round exits, the Bryant away from Shaq and you get the same, take Pippen away from Jordan and you get 41 shot attempts and 63 points for nothing.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL at the same token take MJ away from pip i dont think pip becomes a HOF
sopa71479 8 months ago 13
@sopa71479 OMG, then Pip's winning 55 season games and getting a line of 22-9-6-3-1 (1994). It's a team game and MJ wasn't playing 1 on 5, get over it.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL um ok but you were giving a scenario of Taking players away from one another. What im saying is if Pip NEVER paired up with MJ, Pip would not have become the player he became. Pip even outright admits its that MJ changed his game forever.
sopa71479 8 months ago
@sopa71479 Oh, c'mon... Should I take it seriously? BTW it was you asking "are those playoff series including Shaq?".
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL i know i was asking that i wanted clarification. BTW in regards to pip, do you really think pip would have become the defender he became if it wasn't for the fact that he had to defend MJ everyday in practice?
sopa71479 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sopa71479 do you really think MJ would have become the player he became if it wasn't for the fact that he had to play against pip everyday in practice?
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL or that it was MJ pushing Pip all the time to do better
sopa71479 8 months ago
@WitasPL
Shaq in the early 2ks would have won a ring with any talented swing man. Kobe was in every sense of the word replaceable. A.I. could have won 3 with Shaq back then, same with T-Mac or even Vince! That was a one sided relationship, Kobe NEEDED Shaq waaaaaaaaaayyyyy more than Shaq needed Kobe.
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 Imagine this: if Iverson was 2 feet taller or if Duncan was playing PG or if blah blah blah. I regret I got into this "what if..." talk. Hmm, wait a second... Well, actually it's not "what if..." type of arguing, it's some kind of a dogma: "Shaq would have won 7 titles with his mother as a sidekick as Carl Lewis and Muhammad Ali would have won the olympic gold in men's table tennis team, I guarantee you that". Get back to earth, watch the game, have fun and stop this b.s.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL
That was cute. But made no sense. The way A.I. played back then (MVP) level, the way Vince and T-Mac played extremely efficient scorers, T-Mac even more so than Kobe, proves that they would have done just as well alongside Shaq. People said Wade and Bron wouldn't work out, we all know how that turned out. So yea Kobe was replaceable back then dude. Sorry that it hurts your feelings...
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@WitasPL The other difference MJ was drafted to Bulls team that was in the middle of rebuilding. Kobe was playing on a team that was considered a title contendar during his rookie year. When Kobe was drafter he wasnt the center piece of the team, MJ was huge difference
sopa71479 8 months ago
@WitasPL
Shaq with Penny had a great squad but not nearly a talented bench as the Lakers and not a HOF coach like Phil. That's why they didn't win a ring. Every team Shaq was on in his prime was a contender. Kobe as "THE GUY" 05-'07 never got out of the first round.....FACT! KOBE NEVER WON A RING WITHOUT A DOMINANT BIG MAN. Jordan did....in an era full of legendary big men!
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 I've already told what I think about this type of gabbling so please find youself some other friend to share your expert NBA and title winning know-how and stop insulting my intelligence.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 "Kobe never won a ring without a dominant big man" You can replace Kobe's name there with Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jerry West, and Oscar Robertson. As you can see, this fact really doesn't mean anything. Isiah Thomas won back-to-back rings without a *dominant* big man as well (Laimbeer, Mahorn, & Salley were solid players but NOT dominant). Is he better than the aforementioned legends? NO. And guess who LED the Lakers in Win Shares during their dominating '01 playoffs (16-1)? Kobe.
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545 typo: (15-1)
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545
Exactly you can replace Kobe with all those names and the same result, thus solidifying MJ as the greatest. That's what separated MJ from the rest he had the impact of a big man at 6'6 (barley). Never before has the league seen such dominance at the SG position. And quite honestly, they'll never see it again. THERE IS ONLY ONE MJ and only one cheap imitation.....Kobe. lmao
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 "That's what separated MJ from the rest" I see my mention of Isiah Thomas flew over your head lol. I don't deny that MJ's the greatest to ever play the game, but give credit where its due. You can't say Shaq was the "main reason" for Kobe's '01 ring if its Kobe who LED the Lakers in Win Shares. Heck, it was when Kobe averaged 33 points (51.2% FG), 7 rebounds, 7 assists against the Spurs (#1 defensive rating) in WCF that Shaq himself said Kobe's the "best player in the league by far."
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545
I saw the Isiah mention but it was not even worth it to bring it up bc Isiah didn't make 1/4 the impact Jordan did. I'd just be wasting characters trying to defend MJ's greatness over Isiah's. And Kobe is a great player, I'm not denying it. But to say Kobe had just as much to do with the 1st 3 rings as Shaq did is outrageous and not true. The reason Kobe did so well in 2001 was bc Shaq commanded a tripe team. LMAO It left multiple wing players wide open.
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 If the only point you're trying to make is that Jordan is the best, then there's no point in arguing since I agree with that. Yet, in your attempt to do so, you made a rather weak point of bringing up "a dominant big man." Having one or not doesn't take away or add on to a legend's greatness. Shaq had the most impact because the triangle revolved around him; his USG% was higher than anyone on that team. Yet even with his presence, Kobe put up captain numbers (29 pts, 7 reb, 6 ast).
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545
How is it a weak argument when the truth of the matter is SHAQ REGULARLY COMMANDED DOUBLE AND EVEN TRIPLE TEAM COVERAGE! That left multiple wings players open INCLUDING KOBE! Don't you think that helps Kobe out a bit???lol I love Kobe bro, but the truth is Shaq would have most likely won 3 with Phil Jackson and any great wing player of that time (Tmac, Vince, A.I. etc...). Kobe was replaceable back then, Shaq was not, he was the corner stone!
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 I completely disagree with the claim that putting any of those wing players on the 3peat Lakers would have yielded the same impact. AI's presence would piss Shaq off even more than Kobe, since he rarely passed and shot WAY more inefficiently than Kobe. Vince and Tmac wouldn't average 33/7/7 against the top defensive team in the league. And don't make it seem like Kobe was left wide open the vast majority of the time. I'm not slighting Shaq's impact, but you're being disingenuous here.
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545
AI and Shaq would have gotten along fine for the simple fact that AI would finally have someone capable of scoring other than himself. AI ball hogged on the sixers bc they LITERALLY had no other scoring option. Tmac was more productive THAN KOBE back then and carried a franchise on his back (Orlando) with little to no help. Vince was a fucking beast in the early 2ks and took the Raptors pretty deep in the playoffs. I think any of them would have won three with Shaq.
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 Given that AI ball hogged, it's hard to claim that other players *couldn't* contribute more to scoring IF he actually passed them the ball more. 3 other starters for the sixers shot more efficiently than he did. AI's shot selection was horrible; Shaq would have hated him. Regarding the other wing players, one can only speculate about their productivity in playing out West (Tmac's PER dropped significantly in Houston). The East in the early 2ks was viewed as the JV conference lol.
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545 McGrady's downhill slide with the Rockets was mostly due to his back spams, not playing a tougher western conference. McGrady in the early 00's was just as good as Kobe on the offensive end. Same goes for Vince Carter. What separated Kobe from these guys was his defense. Neither McGrady or Carter has ever made an all defensive team, I think people don't take the defensive aspect into consideration. But I do believe these guys with Shaq would still have been a dominate duo.
UR2H 8 months ago
@UR2H They still would have been a dominant duo without Kobe-like defense? As the saying goes, "Offense sells tickets; defense wins games."
gmn545 7 months ago
@gmn545 Would they have been just as dominant? No probably not. Would they still have dominated the league? Highly plausible that they would. And you're right about AI. Still, 45% twice in 2 seasons in Denver vs twice in 10 seasons in Philly. I can only believe that type of inconsistency was due more from such a lack of offensive talent around him than it was bad shot selection.
UR2H 7 months ago
@gmn545 As far as AI goes, he dropped his attempts from 25 to 20 as soon as he arrived in Denver where there was more talent around him. Kobe was attempting around 20 shots as Shaq teammate. Iverson could have coexisted with Shaq with 20 attempts a game. Iverson was also consistently much more efficient when he had talent around him like he did in Denver. He went from shooting over 43% only once in 10 seasons with Philly to 45% his entire stint with Denver.
UR2H 8 months ago
@UR2H
Thanks for saving me typing time dude. LMAO You said everything I wanted to...
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@UR2H Slight correction to you. AI's 2nd season he shot 46% and 44.7% in '06, so that'd be *twice* getting over 43%. AI, similar to Kobe, was a volume shooter who couldn't put up 27 pts+ without taking a lot of shots (and missing the majority of them). It wasn't just about talent surrounding him; his shot selection was poor. Take it from Shaq ('04 finals kobe lol), such a style pisses him off. Yet, Kobe (as starter) was always more efficient & more clutch - which LA needed a lot, even with Shaq.
gmn545 7 months ago
@gmn545
As a matter of fact look at the first three peat as a whole, not just 2001. Look at the highlights of most of the games. You'll see Kobe driving to the paint and dishing it to Shaq or you'll see wing players (Fisher, Fox, Kobe) all taking wide open or barley contested shots because of the attention given to Shaq. That was the story of the 2k Lakers. Shaq's presence leaves others WIDE OPEN!
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 I watched every Lakers game (being an LA fan) in the playoffs during the 3peat years. And you really are short-changing Kobe's impact. There's a reason why Shaq publicly stated that Kobe was the "best player in the league by far", after that Spurs series. And don't discount the several crucial playoff games where Shaq sat due to foul trouble and Kobe came to rescue.
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545 You do understand however that during the Shaq-Kobe years in L.A., Shaq being on the floor completely opened up things for Kobe right? He never had to face a double team, had plenty of pass of space on his side of the floor to operate, I mean this makes a huge different for a guy like that. Shaq even when he wasn't scoring was a huge effect on the game just by being out there. Now there are examples of Kobe being great then (2000 Finals, Game 4) but make no mistake, Shaq was the key.
Antrizzle2009 8 months ago 16
@Antrizzle2009
Not only was Shaq the key, he was the franchise player. They didn't draft Kobe 13th to be the face of the franchise. LMAO. They drafted a young talented SG with potential to COMPLIMENT the big guy. Shaq is THE MAIN reason why Kobe has 3 of his 5 rings. No doubt about it!!
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 Lakers never drafted Bryant.
WitasPL 8 months ago
@WitasPL
Okay he was "traded" to the Lakers after being selected 13th by Charlotte. My point is why wasn't he drafted higher if he was looked at as a franchise player by any squad??? Kobe simply wasn't ready in his first few years hence he rode the bench. lmao
Kingjd87 8 months ago
@Kingjd87 Exactly right. They acquired swingmen and shooters around the time to compliment Shaq. Back then it was still the belief, with the exception of Jordan, that you needed a franchise big man to win. And the Lakers had always been known for that and that's why Shaq going to L.A. was such a big deal.
Antrizzle2009 8 months ago
@Antrizzle2009 Shaq was certainly a dominant presence that opened things up. Yet, don't confuse Phil's choice to run the triangle around the Center with a supposed inability of Kobe to be option #1. I credit both Shaq and Kobe as two alpha-dogs that led their team, and Phil himself agrees with me.
"He's right up there. There aren't many guys who can lay claim to five rings as the prime mover of a basketball club." -- Phil Jackson, when asked where Kobe ranks with MJ, June 23, 2010
gmn545 8 months ago
@gmn545 Well anytime the MJ-Kobe debate comes up, Phil always tries to be as diplomatic as possible. That's why he always puts Kobe in a positive light. The truth is that Phil knows Shaq was the more important piece to those title runs and said as much in his book. And Kobe was a role player when he first got to L.A. In fact I don't think he was an "alpha dog" till about 2001 or so. Coincidentally, that's when all the problems between him and Shaq started, even during their title runs.
Antrizzle2009 8 months ago
@Antrizzle2009 I know Kobe initially came to LA as a role/bench player, because he had 3 all-star vets on his team (Shaq, Van exel, Jones) who were all going to get their minutes/stats. Point is, if Kobe became an alpha-dog circa '01, then it can't be said that Shaq "carried" Kobe through their playoff runs, especially when Kobe LED the team in win shares for '01. Shaq was the centerpiece due to the triangle being based around him, but given Kobe's stats, he'd be option #1 on any other team.
gmn545 7 months ago
@gmn545 I guess my point was that there are some things you just can't tell by reading a stat sheet. Like the fact that entire defenses back then focused on stopping Shaq. He was always the #1 concern of every defense in the league. Shaq's mere prescence on the court opened up alot of areas for Kobe to work, especially in that style of offense and considering the improvements Shaq made in his passing out of the post. Look at the 04/05 season and see how Kobe struggled to make the adjustment.
Antrizzle2009 7 months ago
@Antrizzle2009
Agreed. The Lakers were pretty much built on throwing the ball into Shaq, draw the double, then find the open shooter. Without Shaq, former Lakers like Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Devean George wouldn't nearly be as effective.
Airmaster167 6 months ago
@Airmaster167 Horry was pretty effective with the Rockets before coming to LA. And besides, he was a role player, it's his job to support the stars, not the other way around.
samsam29 6 months ago
@Antrizzle2009 Yes of course but for MJs entire career he had Pippen which I think we can all agree was a HUGE key, that along with having the 7 time reigning rebounding champion in Rodman, 2 excellent 3 point shooters with Kerr and Kukoc and 7'2" Luc Longley. I think we can all agree MJ had just as much help as Kobe if not more
movalcadillac 6 months ago
@movalcadillac The Bulls were a great TEAM, I've never disputed that. But there were times when Jordan most certainly did have to carry them. Pippen was hurt a great deal of '97 and '98 and was not the same player he was earlier for example.
Antrizzle2009 6 months ago
@Antrizzle2009 Just as Kobe had to carry his team through playoff series, Pippen is a Hall of Famer along with Rodman, Gasol, Artest, Odom, Fisher are not!
movalcadillac 6 months ago
@movalcadillac But Gasol is an all-star Odom is the sixth man? and perhaps an all-star Bynum is an up and coming big man though.
MegaSplash1 6 months ago
MegaSplash1 6 months ago
@MegaSplash1
The Lakers have Pau Gasol (all star top 2 PF in the league), Andrew Bynum when healthy the 2nd best Center in the league, Odom one of the most versatile players in the league, Artest, former DPOTY, Matt Barnes, one of the best wing defenders in the league, Fisher, a great leader and crafty veteran. And with that what did Kobe do against Dallas....HE GOT SWEPT! You give MJ that squad and he'd win a ring every fucking year!
Kingjd87 6 months ago
@Kingjd87 STFU! Anyone can say "Oh Kobe had all these great players! OMG! He did nothing with them!" It took MJ SEVEN FUCKING YEARS TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITH HOF SCOTTIE PIPPEN AND HE HAD HORACE GRANT AND RON HARPER ALL 3 ARE 6