My Grandfather served under Gen. Clark in in Italy during World War II. He idolized Gen. Clark. I'd give anything if he was still alive so I could show this to him.
Thank you, kcope. My uncle was at Cassino. He said that Mark Clark was the best General of the war, not like those English officers who just kept sending in wave after wave of colonial troops. Clark cared about his men. He cared about Italy too and saved the Catholic church in Rome.
Due to Clarke's gross insubordination in turning towards Rome rather than trapping German troops south of Rome. General Kesselring was able reform the German line north of Rome and fought on until the end of the war in northern Italy. Thereby increasing the allied death toll markedly. Some hero.
Sure. My uncle fought at Cassino. He knew exactly what the English thought of colonial troops. The Ghurkas took key salients, and the English would not help them. Typical. Clark made his triumphal entry into Rome as it the right of a Great Commander. It was after all an American victory.
He Was Famous For Posing With His Colt 45, Which He Kept Empty
Clarke Lost 180,000 Men In Four Months
Monte Casino, there were four battles at there . Clark made three attacks to cross the Gustav Line , but failed. In a fit of anger he blamed his failures on a monastery, Clark called in hundreds of bombers, and reduced it to rubble.
The Germans, who never occupied it then poured in troops & guns, into the rubble. Clark had prolonged the battle by months.
Actually, Clark was against this and got overruled by his superior, the English General Alexander. This is fact. The credit for the destruction of the abbey goes to General Alexander.
I believe General Alexander chastised Clark. He suggested it was the duty of a superior Officer to support his men. Alexander did not order the Bombing of the Benedicine Abby. Clark did. At the request of General Tuker of the 4th Indian Division, supported by General Freyberg of the NZ Corp.
I am firmly of the opinion Alexander did not order Clarke to do anything. An Army Group Commander dosent have to. Alexander's stinging criticism of Clarks failure to support his subordinates request was more than enough.
Hallenbach. You are probably right. The main reason why the abbey was bombed was that the American media said there were spotters in the abbey - propaganda. This clip is in youtube too. Clark certainly wanted the abbey bombed but wanted to see the political fallout. It is important that generals be seen in the correct light. Who will ever forget the scene of triumphal entry into Rome in the film Anzio? The US soldiers thought Clark was a hero. He avoided the battles, and they loved him for it.
Hellenbach. What I was trying to say is that Clark wanted triumphal victory for both him and his troops. Every man wants to avoid conflict, be cheered as a victorious soldier and come home with plenty of medals for bravery. Any General who can achieve this is always popular with the troops. Whether Clark acted honorably or not is another matter. As they say "discretion is the better part of valor".
The German Army Retreats. The American 5th Army at Anzio was to drive east to Velmonten and cut them off. The Germans would be trapped between two armies, and air power could have annihilated them. Astonishingly, General Mark Clark ordered a change attack from Valmontone, and ordered an advance on Rome.
As a result of Clark's actions, the Gothic line was not broken for another year, and the provisional governments and safe areas whichwere smashed by the German Army, at great loss of men.
Clarke sent in 55,000 US and British troops to Salerno without pre-invasion naval or aerial bombardment, in order to secure surprise. The Germans had the 10th Army Corp waiting, and slaughtered the first wave of Americans.
There were 2,000 US, and 6,847 British dead, and another 11,000 casualties
Clark stayed aboard the ships, blaming the English for the bungled landing. He was so inept that 600 of the British 10th Corps, refused to serve under Clark.
On June 2nd Kesselring orders Rome to be abandoned, declaring it an open city. Clark's Fifth Army units reached the outskirts of the city, encountering imaginary German resistance. Clark was in such a rush for photo ops that units collided, and accidentally attacked each other. A Gen Kendall's unit attacked a Gen Fredrick's unit, and accidentally killed the General Fredicks.
OK. I can see why people would criticize him over diverting to Rome - he was ordered by Alexander to cut off the retreating Germans from Cassino. English General Montgomery did tell Clark and Patton to ignore any orders from Alexander that did not suit, as he considered Alexander "not up to the battle". I was never impressed with Montgomery either. You are probably correct about the "photo shoot" though.
OK, jofrad. You seem to put forward reasonable arguments. Maybe I am not quite as impressed with Clark as before. I never said anything against Alexander, other than that he was the one who OKed the bombing of the Abbey. I'm sure that if it had been the correct decision, Clark would have taken the credit. He certainly does seem interested in his image.
It matters nil what Montgomery said or didn't say. That vain preening peacock should have been court martialed for insubordination. He bears a weighty reponsibility for the loss of the allied troops that might have been saved, if only he had obeyed his orders, as any real soldier would. If Patton had Alexanders post, he would probably have shot him on the spot with his ivory handled pistol.
Hallenbach You have to understand that the war was nearly over, and the great generals had to make their name in history. There were three great cities. MacArthur got Tokyo, Clark Rome and Zhukov Berlin. Clark was considered a great conquering hero of Rome complete with triumphal entry. He is likened to Pompey, Augustus, Julius Caesar and Scipio. This entry into Rome put him up there with MacArthur and Washington himself. Most people forget how he achieved this ultimate triumph.
Cold consolation to the allied soldiers that had to fight on and died for this showboat of photo-opportunist. But to liken him to Caesar or McArthur, that sheer fantasy. For all his manicured public relations no one remembers him, and if they do its an after-thought. Not on the same level as Patton, Bradley, Taylor, or Truscott. His "triumph" was short lived; the next day was D-Day, so he was rightly quickly forgotten; so one must ask, for what did his men die when they didnt have to?
Mark Clark was one of the generals of the war even Truscott thought it too.The decision to go to Rome rather cut off German Army is something that defies belief. Anyway the D-Day landings overshadowed his entry into Rome & was below the headline..
My Grand Uncle and Grand father fought along the Gustav line. Clark commanded those English Officers at Army level, Only Alexander was superior in rank. He is responsible for the disasterous headlong assaults against the Cassino Massif and Monestry. Of all the US commanders, this Officer is without doubt the most ill equipped to command. Promote General Lucien Truscott to command the Allied forces, now there was a good US general.
I feel like a fool because I graduated from college, but here it goes: What's the difference between a college and a university? If anyone ever reads this I hope to get an answer. Signed, Curious and obviouslly not as educated as I thought LOL!
The difference varies depending on geography, but generally in the US a college is a single institution of higher learning offering at most a bachelor's degree in a single general field (such as liberal arts), whereas a university is a collection of colleges offering education in a wide range of fields, as well as postgraduate degrees.
Yes, and I think at that time it was like a "hip" saying. More usually said: "Oh, you are one living American doll!" to a really sexy lady. So I think she is just teasing. I could be wrong.
"Are you related to anyone famous?" I think Dorothy was thinking of Milton Eisenhower, who was a college professor and administrator.
observer9670 4 months ago
I love it when they are totally fooled.
XMLarry 1 year ago 7
@XMLarry So far, I've only seen the voice of Donald Duck and Cesar Romero get them all.
Veggieman87 1 year ago
I found it strange that he said he was not related to anyone famous. As I recall, he was the First Cousin of General George C. Marshall.
N3794N 3 years ago
My Grandfather served under Gen. Clark in in Italy during World War II. He idolized Gen. Clark. I'd give anything if he was still alive so I could show this to him.
kcope001 3 years ago 5
Thank you, kcope. My uncle was at Cassino. He said that Mark Clark was the best General of the war, not like those English officers who just kept sending in wave after wave of colonial troops. Clark cared about his men. He cared about Italy too and saved the Catholic church in Rome.
swanningaround 3 years ago
Colonial troops from Britain ??
Due to Clarke's gross insubordination in turning towards Rome rather than trapping German troops south of Rome. General Kesselring was able reform the German line north of Rome and fought on until the end of the war in northern Italy. Thereby increasing the allied death toll markedly. Some hero.
jofrad 3 years ago
Sure. My uncle fought at Cassino. He knew exactly what the English thought of colonial troops. The Ghurkas took key salients, and the English would not help them. Typical. Clark made his triumphal entry into Rome as it the right of a Great Commander. It was after all an American victory.
swanningaround 3 years ago
An Egotistical and Vain Perfumed Prince
He Was Famous For Posing With His Colt 45, Which He Kept Empty
Clarke Lost 180,000 Men In Four Months
Monte Casino, there were four battles at there . Clark made three attacks to cross the Gustav Line , but failed. In a fit of anger he blamed his failures on a monastery, Clark called in hundreds of bombers, and reduced it to rubble.
The Germans, who never occupied it then poured in troops & guns, into the rubble. Clark had prolonged the battle by months.
jofrad 3 years ago
Actually, Clark was against this and got overruled by his superior, the English General Alexander. This is fact. The credit for the destruction of the abbey goes to General Alexander.
swanningaround 3 years ago
I believe General Alexander chastised Clark. He suggested it was the duty of a superior Officer to support his men. Alexander did not order the Bombing of the Benedicine Abby. Clark did. At the request of General Tuker of the 4th Indian Division, supported by General Freyberg of the NZ Corp.
Hallenbach 2 years ago
I am firmly of the opinion Alexander did not order Clarke to do anything. An Army Group Commander dosent have to. Alexander's stinging criticism of Clarks failure to support his subordinates request was more than enough.
Hallenbach 2 years ago
Hallenbach. You are probably right. The main reason why the abbey was bombed was that the American media said there were spotters in the abbey - propaganda. This clip is in youtube too. Clark certainly wanted the abbey bombed but wanted to see the political fallout. It is important that generals be seen in the correct light. Who will ever forget the scene of triumphal entry into Rome in the film Anzio? The US soldiers thought Clark was a hero. He avoided the battles, and they loved him for it.
swanningaround 2 years ago
A General that avoided Battles? The same General that is acclaimed by his troops. i dont know which is worst, the troops, the General of both.
Hallenbach 2 years ago
Hellenbach. What I was trying to say is that Clark wanted triumphal victory for both him and his troops. Every man wants to avoid conflict, be cheered as a victorious soldier and come home with plenty of medals for bravery. Any General who can achieve this is always popular with the troops. Whether Clark acted honorably or not is another matter. As they say "discretion is the better part of valor".
swanningaround 2 years ago
The German Army Retreats. The American 5th Army at Anzio was to drive east to Velmonten and cut them off. The Germans would be trapped between two armies, and air power could have annihilated them. Astonishingly, General Mark Clark ordered a change attack from Valmontone, and ordered an advance on Rome.
As a result of Clark's actions, the Gothic line was not broken for another year, and the provisional governments and safe areas whichwere smashed by the German Army, at great loss of men.
jofrad 3 years ago
The Salerno Landings -September 9, 1943
Clarke sent in 55,000 US and British troops to Salerno without pre-invasion naval or aerial bombardment, in order to secure surprise. The Germans had the 10th Army Corp waiting, and slaughtered the first wave of Americans.
There were 2,000 US, and 6,847 British dead, and another 11,000 casualties
Clark stayed aboard the ships, blaming the English for the bungled landing. He was so inept that 600 of the British 10th Corps, refused to serve under Clark.
jofrad 3 years ago
Liberation Of Rome - June 4, 1944
On June 2nd Kesselring orders Rome to be abandoned, declaring it an open city. Clark's Fifth Army units reached the outskirts of the city, encountering imaginary German resistance. Clark was in such a rush for photo ops that units collided, and accidentally attacked each other. A Gen Kendall's unit attacked a Gen Fredrick's unit, and accidentally killed the General Fredicks.
jofrad 3 years ago
OK. I can see why people would criticize him over diverting to Rome - he was ordered by Alexander to cut off the retreating Germans from Cassino. English General Montgomery did tell Clark and Patton to ignore any orders from Alexander that did not suit, as he considered Alexander "not up to the battle". I was never impressed with Montgomery either. You are probably correct about the "photo shoot" though.
swanningaround 3 years ago
Yes I'm sure Montgomery was delighted that Clark headed for Rome rather than trap Kesselring's divisions.
If Clark was against attacking Monte Cassino why didn't he disregard this order from Alexander as it "did not suit"
What utter rubbish, you're impressed with Clark but not with Montgomery, Alexander or "English Troops" . Says it all really.
jofrad 3 years ago
OK, jofrad. You seem to put forward reasonable arguments. Maybe I am not quite as impressed with Clark as before. I never said anything against Alexander, other than that he was the one who OKed the bombing of the Abbey. I'm sure that if it had been the correct decision, Clark would have taken the credit. He certainly does seem interested in his image.
swanningaround 3 years ago
We can agree at least on your last sentence.
jofrad 3 years ago
It matters nil what Montgomery said or didn't say. That vain preening peacock should have been court martialed for insubordination. He bears a weighty reponsibility for the loss of the allied troops that might have been saved, if only he had obeyed his orders, as any real soldier would. If Patton had Alexanders post, he would probably have shot him on the spot with his ivory handled pistol.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
Hallenbach You have to understand that the war was nearly over, and the great generals had to make their name in history. There were three great cities. MacArthur got Tokyo, Clark Rome and Zhukov Berlin. Clark was considered a great conquering hero of Rome complete with triumphal entry. He is likened to Pompey, Augustus, Julius Caesar and Scipio. This entry into Rome put him up there with MacArthur and Washington himself. Most people forget how he achieved this ultimate triumph.
swanningaround 3 years ago
Cold consolation to the allied soldiers that had to fight on and died for this showboat of photo-opportunist. But to liken him to Caesar or McArthur, that sheer fantasy. For all his manicured public relations no one remembers him, and if they do its an after-thought. Not on the same level as Patton, Bradley, Taylor, or Truscott. His "triumph" was short lived; the next day was D-Day, so he was rightly quickly forgotten; so one must ask, for what did his men die when they didnt have to?
Hallenbach 2 years ago
Mark Clark was one of the generals of the war even Truscott thought it too.The decision to go to Rome rather cut off German Army is something that defies belief. Anyway the D-Day landings overshadowed his entry into Rome & was below the headline..
Serves him right.
SLIMIMPHAL 2 years ago
My Grand Uncle and Grand father fought along the Gustav line. Clark commanded those English Officers at Army level, Only Alexander was superior in rank. He is responsible for the disasterous headlong assaults against the Cassino Massif and Monestry. Of all the US commanders, this Officer is without doubt the most ill equipped to command. Promote General Lucien Truscott to command the Allied forces, now there was a good US general.
Hallenbach 3 years ago
@kcope001 my father was liberated by Gen. Clark from Nazi death camp in Austria may 1945 thank you for your grandfather's service
partyspecialists 11 months ago
I feel like a fool because I graduated from college, but here it goes: What's the difference between a college and a university? If anyone ever reads this I hope to get an answer. Signed, Curious and obviouslly not as educated as I thought LOL!
SueBeaWho 3 years ago
The difference varies depending on geography, but generally in the US a college is a single institution of higher learning offering at most a bachelor's degree in a single general field (such as liberal arts), whereas a university is a collection of colleges offering education in a wide range of fields, as well as postgraduate degrees.
Corzicant 3 years ago
Kind of ironic considering Fred Allen passed away from heart attack in 1958
bitterchew 3 years ago
No, it was 1956.
UofLCardFan08 3 years ago
I never understand Dorothy's frequent question "Are you a living American man/woman?" As opposed to a dead one?!
therealdavidparis 3 years ago
nonsensical sense of humour ? plus a means to know if it's man or woman ?
harebat 3 years ago
Yes, and I think at that time it was like a "hip" saying. More usually said: "Oh, you are one living American doll!" to a really sexy lady. So I think she is just teasing. I could be wrong.
SueBeaWho 3 years ago