Union University Tornado (2/9/08)

[Duske3000]

I LOVE YOU GOD

[funnyman2424]

Thats my room at 4:13. Yet, "nothing survived." lol. It's ok, but my tv is right there. I also would like that UU pennet too.

But, Its a miricle no one died. Praise God.

[kristenlusby22]

That night was so terrible! I live about 45 minutes away in Greenfield Tennessee. We have two youth in our church who was from Union and was in that tornado. Very sad, but a BIG blessing no one died.

[twirlgirl78]

I no what this was like. I lived really close to union university in jackson tn.

[hornguardtn]

It's amazing how a couple windbags can take a tragedy and turn it into a religious debate. Way to go.

[Adamwinters]

This is very encouraging to hear how the leadership of this great academic instituion places its future in the providential wisdom of a wise and good God.

[UnionU10]

DeadlyChinchilla, You are correct in saying that some people live depending on the direction of the Tornado, and you even mention luck, and alot of the times thats how it may seem. It may not be a big deal when a family of 4 happens to live through a tornado That may be contributed to luck...but please explain to me how I and 1200 other students all just "happened" to be in the right place at the right time...have you seen the pictures? Only God could have saved that many lives.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

If god was involved, why would he 'allow' the hall to be hit at all, considering all the innocent lives? The answer is he wouldn't if he could... or more clearly, he can't, or won't, even if he can.

By allowing natural disasters, does he "save" lives? No, he allows them to be wiped out in hordes.  I see nobody thanking the rescue squads, and siren maintenance teams that keep the sirens working. I see scared people giving thanks to god when it should be those that pull them from the rubble.

[xman007007]

where you at the twin tower during 9/11?

we were very fortune that only 3000 or so people died. that building was suppose to have close to 10,000 to 15,000 by that time. God works in mysterious ways and because the intellects can't explain it, it just pisses them off, so they make up ways that come close to explaining thing. The universe is to perfectly balance for it not to have been created.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

I was living in Annapolis, and I had driven past the Pentagon around 0830 that morning. But should I even have to point out that 9-11 was not a natural disaster?

The "intellects" can explain it, and have. Also, I have yet to say that god "pisses me off." What is true is that the men on the planes that hit the towers firmly believed that god was with THEM, not us, and that they would receive awards for their deeds.

To justify disaster as a lesson/act of god only allows 9-11's to occur.

[Jay00789]

How could you say God had no part in this miracle. The only way they survived was because God was with them. God put his hand upon them and said he was there with them. That's how they survived. Without God, who knows what could have happened.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Without god, the exact same thing would have happened. The same people would have died, the same people would have lived, and the same tornado would have rampaged through with violent destruction.

[ibalrit]

Dear DeadlyChinchilla,

It has EVERYTHING to do with GOD. Storms happen in life. Literal physical and spiritual storms. Where you wind up during and after the storm depends on your belief and faith in God. Through His Son, Jesus, all of us in Jackson know He watched over us through this storm. Of the thousands who were affected, there were 2 deaths in our county. Even through their death, their witness is being shared. Their love, our love for Jesus cannot be squelched by any storm of life

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Thats all very poetic, but unrealistic. The two who died in your county aren't there to shout out their love of the god that allowed them to die in the storm he allowed to happen. To think anything can be learned from the useless deaths from any natural disaster, well... its just selfish, to explain away their life and death like that. A living lesson for you... a fatal lesson for them. How lovely a deal god offered them.

[xman007007]

such as it is for one such as you. God move and does what he pleases. He does answer to us. everything that has occured is called a cause and affect. God thinks in long terms. Because it happen to bring about a change in people if they so choose. When confronted with death, it puts a new face on life and how you live it. And yes it is explained like that, plain and simply. Which would rather believe, that we came from monkeys or created from God.

By the way, the science does add up.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

The simple statement "came from monkeys" leads me to believe you haven't had a single science course.

We did not "come from monkeys," and no scientist ever said such a thing. We ARE apes, and have ape ancestors, and further back we have some monkey ancestors.

The scientific theories of evolution and natural selection are at about the same range of acceptance as gravity and electromagnetics. You can't pick and choose what science to believe just because its inconvenient for your faith.

[ibalrit]

You can try to "explain" away God but it will not work. You cannot refute the testimony of someone else. If, in your life situations, you cannot see God working, that does not mean He is not there. You cannot see the wind but you can see its effects. God allows humans to make choices-good or bad. As Christians, we know that whatever happens, He can receive the glory for it.

[ibalrit]

Yes, there was much devastation in our area. Our response is that God was there to see us through the storm. The part you don't understand is that whether I lived or died in the tornado, God STILL would have seen me through. It is the life we live hand in hand with Jesus that gives us this strength. If someone chooses not to receive His gift of salvation/eternal life, it does negate his existence. It just means they haven't come to the point in life where they realize He is ALL they need.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

If god is all you need, then don't try to explain away perfectly good science as if its utterly wrong when you don't understand the first basic facts about the theory you deny.

If god is all you need, then you don't have to attack science, or make small one-liners about monkeys. But then, false information is where you turn to protect your faith. What weak faith, to have to defend it by denying truths of the world he supposidly made for you. I'll pass, if thats all he offers.

[ibalrit]

It really comes down to your base belief. If I am wrong and have dedicated my life to the One true God and come out wrong(won't happen)I've lost nothing. If you dedicate your life to the findings of science and are wrong, you've lost everything. When you can PROVE my faith is based on false information, bring it on. When a scientist can create their own speck of dust and then form a universe without using anything my God already created, the scientific community can argue against creationism.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Shall we base our belief on Pascals Wager? I think not. Its a flimsy reason to believe in any Allmighty, just in case its right/wrong. To think he couldn't see through that sort of belief is also short-sighted. Better to be an honest disbeliever than that.

The very point of faith is that it is not based in something you can prove, certainly you know that. Thats what faith is, belief without proof. In other words, you know your request is bunk before you ask for said 'proof'.

[ibalrit]

I haven't bet or wagered. I'm His all the way. It is people who have no hope, no promise who try to "rationalize" eternity. As I've said, you cannot argue with my testimony. It may not be "concrete" enough for you but that matters not. The fact that scientist are trying to "create" life gives additional support that ultimately there had to be a creator. Life doesn't just happen. Your existence on this planet for your 70 +/- years isn't by chance. You have a purpose whether you accept it or not.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

I suppose you'll insist my purpose is to sacrifice my free will for his glory.

We have purpose that we make for ourselves, it is not thrust upon us by magical transcendent beings.

It is the person that believes he will live for 'eternity' that rationalizes it, not the other way around.

Not much matters to you, save your own 'testimony'. I seriously doubt someone like you has the 'ultimate' knowledge you claim. You would compare mans deeds to gods, exposing your limited vision.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Beyond that, it isn't god that gave us nearly 80 years life expectancy. Less than 100 years ago, life expectancy was less than 50 years.

It is the science you denigrate and villify (see: come from monkeys) that increased lifespans by nearly 30 years. It is the medicine, the surgury, the scanning, the doctors, the nurses, NOT a magical father figure. If you had waited on god to give life this gift of time, you'd still be waiting... at least till you were about 50, that is.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Also, you've made it clear your god 'created' everything. How are scientists to use nothing he created when you claim he created everything? As you ask for proof, I would love to see the proof you have on this.

On a related note, scientists are pretty near 'creating' life from elements typically described as 'not living'. If you're actually interested in such science, I'm sure you could google it... not that I expect you to research the science, claiming we "come from monkeys" and all.

[xman007007]

proof is in Genesis 1. scientists can't create stuff without using elements that God created alive or dead. maybe you should look up ken ham. he has some very useful insight for people struggling to believe in the bible. i dare you too.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Biblical verses are not proof. They have been cobbled together, edited, tossed, gathered again, translated time and again. There isn't proof that a single author in the bible knew Christ, or his direct followers.

Did you know the Hebrew word translated into "virgin" actually means "maiden"? Yet you accept a virgin gave birth, despite proven error.

I know of Ken Ham, and I wouldn't follow anyone convicted of tax fraud, among other things. I dare you to look up his criminal record.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Testimony is actually an extremely unreliable thing to go by, even judicial courts accept this as truth.

We can prove the wind exists, quite easily. Simply pointing at a glorious mountain and saying "god made it" is not proof in and of itself. Pointing at tornado damage then a survivor is also not proof.

Also, not to be antagonistic about it, but its pretty arrogant to think that only your vision of god can be correct, and that its correct for the world whether they like it or not.

[ibalrit]

It's an awesome deal God offered them! The two people who died in the tornado were Christians. They were given the promise of eternal life. Whether they died of old age, cancer, gunman, or tornado, they have received their promise-Eternal life with the Father. It wasn't a fatal choice for Mrs. Baker and Mr. DeBerry but a promise kept. It was a life giving choice. He has never broken a promise including the one about people who deny him. Timing is your choice-at some point, everyone will admit.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

More self-centered drivel, insisting you can only be correct in all the world. How selfish can you possibly be? The worlds rich cultures and various diversity is much larger than you OR your idea of god can encompass or fathom.

You insist we'll know when we're dead. Will it take the death of the world to break an impression upon your mind? How solid is that wall of ignorance, that you would deny the very nature of the world you claim he made, and that only death could reveal its truth.

[xman007007]

in the beginning, scientist said there was a great gathering of matter and from it came the big bang, hence here we are from monkeys , apes or what ever. the problem with that theory and no one can answer it is how long did it take for a piece of matter to gather with another and so forth. in a void of nothing it must have take million,trillion or longer years. so evolution is debunked once again because of the time frame. and yes i have had science classes and medical classes as well.

[xman007007]

Also the funny thing about geology base evolution is that they keep adding on the years of how old earth is to fit their concept. the universe is a Chaotic place but it is amazing how everything is so balanced as if their is something keeping it check. anyway off point, our live are as we choice them. we have to be accountable for our action and accept it. God gave us free will, otherwise, we would be obedient people without character. well this is my last post. but what if or faith is true.??

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Science can change as new knowledge is gained. They now speculate the Earth is 4.7 billion years old, because the evidence suggests this.

The universe is balanced like a hole in the road is balanced for a puddle of water. The puddle may believe the hole was made for it by a god, but reality determines it will still evaporate.

The idea we must be accountable to some unprovable god, an idea too small to explain this universe, is silly.

Don't make me bring up Pascals Wager again...

[DeadlyChinchilla]

There is the Big Bang theory, but you have it wrong. Matter did not come together, the matter-energy (not just matter) existed in a condensed state inside a singularity. There is also the theory that the BB exists in a cycle and that there have been many BB's, as everything else in the universe exists in cycles and process as well.

Also, if you knew anything of evolution, you would know it has nothing to do with the BB at all. Evolution is adaptive change of SPECIES over time, not space.

[xman007007]

matter-energy, hmmm sounds like your saying it was there before the universe was created, but how can that be, it does against the quantum mechanics which is the study of what is and not what suppose might have been there. God was in and always was there. the essence of God is "infinitely incomprehensible".it had to come from something or somewhere. evolution,i know enough to question why haven't people evolved, climate adaptive is a given just look at the races on earth and where they live.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Matter-energy exists consistently, in a state which can be transferred from one to the other, but the total remains constant. Matter to energy and energy to matter, because they are effectively the same thing.

There is also the theory that there have been many Big Bangs, cycling throughout time. Its also possible the universe is a constant.

In all this, no magical spirit force can be assumed, even if we don't have The Answer. Infinite incomprehensibility is a simplistic cop out at best.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Beyond that, it took OUR species, Homo sapiens sapiens, over 200 thousand years to develop physically to this point. All of human culture has occured in a fraction of this time, about 10 thousand years. That isn't nearly long enough to 'witness' human evolution, save for the tiniest mutations that would normally be overlooked.

What do you think climate adaptation is? Evolution, the product of hundreds of thousands of years of natural selection. You can't accept this and deny the rest.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Why do people always claim god looks out for them in these disasters? Tornados hit hard, hit fast, and people die or survive depending on a combination of its trajectory, their protection, or down-right luck.

Take it from a Tornado Alley occcupant, its got nothing to do with god.

[xman007007]

your an idiot, the frickin thing went straight thru the campus living quarter. anything that powerful which can over turn trucks and car and not suck a person out their dorm room is protection from God. He has his hand thru history protecting people. Also, we are not suppose to understand why he does things.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Uh huh, and magic pixies keep me from getting the flu during the winter.

Look, tornados are finicky natural things, unpredictable. They can obliterate everything in their path, and a baby can survive hurled 100's of yards. This is how tornados work, how they hit, and it has nothing to do with a magical force protecting anyone.

It has to do with where you are, how protected your place is, how much response time you have, how intense a tornado, how lucky you are.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Also, I doubt the dead people are saying "god protected us." You only hear it from the living, of course, so then of course they're certain they're "blessed" somehow.

The whole "we are not suppose to understand" is a complete cop-out, btw. We CAN understand why these things happen, and we CAN understand why certain people survive or don't. Saying we're not to understand it is a huge over-simplification of our knowledge of atmospheric theory. We're not meant to "not understand" anything.

[pokeypup1]

poor man...

You'll change your tune when you see him face to face. And you will see him. "For every eye shall see him, even they who pierced him" But it will be too late...

[DeadlyChinchilla]

The only 'poor' man is the one that must live a fantasy to be content with life.

If someone has to die to know the nature of life, what sort of lesson is that? It isn't one. Its the final death throw of the 'logic' of one who can't convince others his fantasy is real.

Some day, I do hope man can learn to rely on human reason. So long as you rely on this fantasy, the world will never change. If you have a 'perfect death' waiting, why change the ills, the status quo, of the world now?

[Duske3000]

human and reason cannot be said in the same sentence

irony of the century

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Got any other clichés to throw out there?

[Duske3000]

yup

you and stupidity

match made in heaven

[madsdadchris]

Great job on this. May God keep and bless as you move forward. You're response to this has been an encouragement and a testimony to God's faithfulness. -- Chris