The Hood is sometimes used as an example of the best Battlecruiser but I beleive the Derrflinger class was if not the best second after the Kongo class. The Derrflingers were beuatiful well bvalanced ships. The flaw's in the Hood became obvious when it blew in half the hull was stressed too much.
@robinhood48 Close look at a 11" gun diagram,this time I think I have an answer.Definitely has a loading chamber that revolves with the gun house inside the fixed mount,the cylindrical hoist is attached at the bottom to the lower platform deck,think it rotates with the loading chamber on a bearing so its not just gravity that holds it in.11"/12" are probably light enough that this holds the turret in inverted.
Absolutely possible if not inevitable. In addition I can say that the WW I war turrets, also the 38cm, have nothing to do with the turrets of Bismarck- and (never installed) Scharnhorst class. Maybe the desire for higher elevation and usage of reduced charges for plunging fire requested a totally new construction.
And, when a vessel capsized nobody cared about the turrets anymore!
@elswick1542 Bismark's guns were a design by Ansaldo (Italy) used on the Littorio class battleships which were not only as good or better than the Bismark but actually had a useful service
@scottduncan44 Bismarck's guns were designed by Krupp they used a sliding breach with a main charge in a brass case,fore charge silk bag,Shell was 800kg 1764lb Mv 820mps.
Littorio used interrupted screw breech all charges in 6 silk bags.Shell 1,951 lbs. (885 kg)Mv 2,789 fps (850 mps) The Italian gun was the most powerful 15" ever made with the longest range of any BB gun.
@robinhood48 Yes never hit a thing(contrary to popular belief it was not for the want of trying) ,very poor quality control of the shells IIR barrel life was only 100 shots all the Regina Marina guns were extreme,6 bags of propellant!
Right now Meyer Yard launched a new cruise ship, 340 meters long looking like a trash can. Instead of bull eyes the mounted monitors where you can see the sea through a web cam.
This is so pervert!
Same for war ships- this stupid "stealth" design of today....
@robinhood48 History seems to show that stealth will be made obsolete by some sort of new sensor tech.Every time something is made hard to find an invention follows that finds it.
Exactly it never ends.I see the U-212,s are made from none magnetic steel,future Barracuda torpedoes and with silent fuel cell,noise coatings that's some combination! take a long time to find a detection method.Maybe in future active sonar will return.
Germans used anti- magnetic steel during the 60ties, was total crap due to bad controlling.
212 can dive 100 meters, no 200 meters, no 250, no 300... now they admit 450, real depth will be told to commander when case of emergency comes along, I estimate somewhat between 600 and 800.
One VII C is reported with 300 meters, survived.
Active sonar is a good thing only above cold water sections. Always a good advice is to keep ears open and mouth shut!
@robinhood48 Read an article a few years ago. When Goodall the Naval construction director for most of WW2 was shown around U-570 he could not understand why the frames were so light but the hull was so thick IIR the designers used a calculation developed for high pressure boilers. Think 800m possible 600m no problem,think it was U-331 that dived to 300m, Back in the 60,s Leander class frigates had a sonar that could be lowered below the cold layers maybe time for a comeback.
Latest over here is captain entered life boat to have better chance to coordinate emergency measures.
When the Italian navy surrendered to GB, betraying Germany by abandoning the Axis Treaty, the Brits received the capitulation by sending a destroyer. Seems they were right until today.
When "Wilhelm Gustloff" was torpedoed, only the people on upper decks could escape. They succeeded in letting down some life boats but failed in rescuing the 12000 refugees, mostly women with their children. In last moment Captain Petersen jumped into the water and was picked up be life boat. He never got over the shame, ended similar like Ismay.
While a visit of Maginot line I was given the opportunity (after I successfully started an old diesel engine) to operate one of the turrets. It was amazing how simply and easily this huge machinery can be moved without using any electricity!
They had no digital systems of measurement and control but normal control engineering, so they had to design exactly. There was no computer to cover design flaws like today, and they had to do the maths by hand and brain. This was a time when not each asshole could become an engineer.
The USS Texas was one of the ships that served under Beatty's command, and is (albeit barely) still afloat in Galveston, TX as the world's oldest remaining dreadnought. Also one of a few remaining, I believe, to have seen service in both WWs.
SMS Derfflinger was a solid fighting ship. Bit rough on old Beatty there, though. I think he did as well as any commander could have under the circumstances. The High Seas Fleet was turned back by this action (Jutland), the Brits were stronger than before in a month or so afterward, and the surface threat to England was essentially nullified. I think Beatty ran a top notch outfit, and our (U.S.) BBs picked up valuable experience serving under him as they did for a time.
@7EMERSON9 Beatty was a joke - he placed far too much emphasis on rapidity of fire and not accurate shooting. The 1st and 2nd BCS had the worst shooting of any unit on either side. This led to dangerous ammunition handling practices that destroyed a third of his command, and nearly killed him as well.
@parsecboy He made serious errors, easily identifiable after the fact, which led to unnacceptable losses. The degradation in ammo handling which took place under him was particularly egregious. However I suspect that had he the chance again some months later, he would have corrected his mistakes. Naval history has many of these one sided early engagements; how would he have fared against the Japs in '42? Probably would have died before he had the chance to improve himself there, I'd say.
@boleynali Are you thinking of Badem? all books and web reserch I did for this point to Derfflinger being inverted when scraped I also have a book about HMS Rodney some of who,s crew visited the ship in WW2 and said it was upside down in a floating dock.
@elswick1542 sorry amigo, its my mistake, i got it mixed up with the HINDENBURG, same class, but unfortunately 4 me the wrong ship.apart from the ships that were saved shortly after the scuttling, the rest of the capital ships that were scrapped were all inverted except for HINDENBURG. seriously,get cox,s navy by Tony Booth.it tells you all about the trials and tribulations of raising the german fleet at scapa..
After some turret jams they used ball bearings for the heavy 38 cm artillery instead of roller bearings. Since then the turrets were held in position by own weight.
@robinhood48 Picture of this turret type shows no working chamber,charges lifted by tube hoist and shells direct to guns,possible the turret is attached direct to the mounting not working chamber to mounting making for a stronger structure?
Handling of charges was easy, shells were locked by a big screw which had to be removed to install bottom fuse, another screw had to be removed to install nose fuse (if required). It´s said they fired 3 rounds in 48 seconds which would require a separate working room below firing area.
@robinhood48 Might be thinking of the 11" turret.Seen some film of I think this gun being loaded.Shells delivered to the side of the gun tipped over onto a tray then power rammed,main charge and fore charge delivered to side of gun again tipped and rammed,very simple and fast with only the fore charge exposed to flash for a short time.Its hard to id the type as normally only pictures of the outside are seen.
@robinhood48 Yes that's the gun, on my Iron Duke vid at 5.20 i am convinced that's the same gun loading.Reading an old book now available on Kindle"by ADM Scheer"just passed Dogger Bank"all 8 ready use rounds were deleted after the fire on Seydlitz"Sink the Bismarck was filmed on Vanguard same turret as Jutland on Qe class only the loading cage is flash proof.
The Bismarck movie, where they showed the loading procedure using a film of loading drill on HMS Vanguard?
Hope I recall correctly.
Anyway, you should be totally right. The characters SK mean Schnelladekanone (Fast loading gun), because the loading drill went similar to the description you just gave. The actually did not need a big stowage inside turret because they only stowed the fuses of the shells, charges were in silk bags anyway.
The ramming was done by hydraulic, you can see the tubes and hoses in the last photo of your (excellent) video. The locking device could be operated with electricity, must have been quite dangerous in turret A.
I´m sure that after Doggerbank no charges were stowed in turrets. Since 1906 charges did not explode but burnt rapidly due to use of centralite. (RP 06/Zentralit)
@robinhood48 Dug out the book with the diagram my memory is going it a Drh.L C/1908 28cm not the gun on Derfflinger and it has a loading chamber but it looks like only for the shell and probably not the charges.
Anyway- orders and battle rules are one thing, the battle itself is another game with own rules. We will never know what they REALLY did in these turrets.Must have been many blind eyes, never mentioned in log books!
@boleynali You're thinking of Hindenburg, the only battlecruiser that was raised right-side-up. There are no pictures of Derfflinger in Cox's Navy. Derfflinger was indeed raised capsized.
@parsecboy.. if you read my 2nd post just above yours, you,ll find that i admitted i made a mistake and it was indeed Hindenburg that arrived right way up and not Derfflinger...cheers.
I have to tuck in now as it's after 2:00 hours here zulu time. There is a 6ft model I believe, transferred from HMS Collingwood, land base, now in the gunnery school at, HMS Excellent, Whale Island, as I was advised when a couple of years ago I visited on an open day. As yet I haven't set eyes on this fabled model. There are quite a few in the Science Museum, London, with HMS Vanguard among others.
@elswick1542 The hit that destroyed Lions' Q turret came from Lutzow, not Derfflinger. Derfflinger was firing at Princess Royal when Lion's Q turret was hit.
Hello Collingwood, thank you for the fascinating stories about grand paw. Please write these stories down so they will be preserved within your family. That is what I have done.
It is a sad fact that up to immediately before the British declaration of war against Germany, due to the UK alliance with Belgium, the Royal Navy and Kreigsmarine were the best of friends, engaging in sports events with each other at naval gatherings, even to the point of exchanging friendly flags after departure from the Keil Regatta when war seemed inevitable. Now, more sensibly, we are on the same side. May it always remain so. Ultimately, Germany won its 'place in the sun' with car exports.
7.15pm 31st May 1916 my grandfather's gun crew put a 12" shell into her forward port superstructure, splitting the decks, knocking out 2 x 6" guns and destroying a sick bay. You can see a sailor standing in the gap looking out with upended baths behind him. Prince Albert was sitting on top of 'A' turret when Derfflinger straddled HMS Collingwood with two salvoes @ 8500 yards. Later P. A. made cocoa for his gun crew, including my grandfather. They were reunited outside Belfast City Hall in 1937.
@elswick1542 Thank you kind sir. My gunner grandfather later went on to serve in her until 1922 as a gunnery instructer when shewas demoted to a training ship until the fateful1922 Washington Naval Arms Limitation Treaty when so many of our faithful dreadnoughts were scrapped, including the Collingwood who's last voyage was to the Isle of Wight where she was scrapped at Newport in March 1923. She fired 84 heavies at Jutland with 2 hits on Derfflinger, so I believe, according to Prince Albert,,,
@hmscollingwood ADM Collingwood was a local hero his birthplace has a plack ,his memorial at Tynemouth has guns from the Royal Sov,good idea for a new vid.
@hmscollingwood Hi, my grandfather also served during the Battle of Jutland, but I don't know which German ship. Prior to WW I he served on the SMS Tsingtau based in Kioutchou, China, and even earlier he was part of the Allied expeditionary corps that came to the aid of the westerners in Beyjing. He regaled us kids with stories of his service.
@chloe7829 SMS Tsingtao was apparently a river gunboat, so it may have been left behind at the outbreak of war, or possibly scuttled (a fine old German tradition), at the outbreak of WW1. It was not mentioned in the Pacific Fleet commanded by Von Spee which came to grief at the Falklands after being chased down by a Royal Navy twin battlecruiser task force, sent by Churchill after the defeat of the antiquated force at Coronel under Admiral Craddock.
@hmscollingwood SMS Tsingtau. Vaterland Class (2 ships). 280 tons. Length: 50.1 metres. Beam 8 metres. Draught: 0.94 metres. SMS Vaterland: Launched: 26/08/1903. Captured by the Chinese, 20/03/1917. Apparently still lives as Batavia (?) but heavily converted up to 350 tons. Spent some time as lodgings for yacht club in 1950s. SMS Tsingtau: Launched 18/04/1904. Transported to China and re-assembled at Hong Kong. Operated on West River.
@hmscollingwood Hi Collingwood, During WW II while us two kids were seeking shelter in our basement in Cologne during an airraid, our grandfather would tell us of his adventures in China in the year of 1910 as a crewmember of SMS Tsingtau. My grandfather had a buddy also one who served in China and those two swapped yarns. To bad we didn't think of writing the stories down. Grandfather was killed in 1944 on the way to an airraid shelter just two days before he was to leave Cologne. RIP Opa
@chloe7829 Sorry to hear about your 'Opa' in Cologne'. You have 'Bomber' Harris to thank for that. We had Coventry, deliberately left exposed by Churchill. Where I hail from, Belfast, N Ireland, Catholics put on their lights and pulled back the curtains to spite the British during a Luftwaffe raid - guess what happened? Not a city known for political sophistication... to this day.
@hmscollingwood the reason you can post that remark is because of Bomber Harris and Charles Lemay who did the job and won the war. Very easy to post that remark in PC 2000 where allied bomber crews are considered war crimminals and nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is mentioned as greatest war crime in history, despite the japs murdering a lot more, chinese, filippinos and other civilians and allied POWS then japs who died in 2 bombings .
@jers59 Dear Sir, You sound like a narcissistic psychopath who always justifies his violence towards his victims by citing that his victims 'provoked him'. I know your type and have been with many in my life to recognise diseased thinking, devoid of human compassion or moral moderation. Yes there were more murdered in Nanking than Heroshima and Nagasaki combined. Many Japanese still refuse to apologise. Likewise, there are Nazis today who deny the Holocaust. Then there is Abu Ghraib, Rwanda..?
@hmscollingwood Dear DR Fraud My MOS in Marines was nuclear projectileman had to pass several psych test and had to pass one for my present job, so Im no narcissistic pscho. How many died in abu ghraib? terrorist are not covered by geneva convention i believe they should be shot on sight no prisoners and GW Bush was wimp he should have had those terrorist executed before he left office no dead terrorist ever killed again. Rwanda? when whites were running Africa you had no Rwanda,s
@hmscollingwood Dear DR Fraud My MOS in Marines was nuclear projectileman had to pass several psych test and had to pass one for my present job, so Im no narcissistic pscho. How many died in abu ghraib? terrorist are not covered by geneva convention i believe they should be shot on sight no prisoners and GW Bush was wimp he should have had those terrorist executed before he left office no dead terrorist ever killed again. Rwanda? when whites were running Africa you had no Rwanda,s
@jers59 I quess that Ozark Mountain Men are still alive and living in nuclear shelters - just in case. With people like you running the world there will me no question about mass self extinction. Bring it on Mr Gung Ho, the world is your battle ground. You should get a proper job, like an international arms dealer and watch both sides slaughter each other while your Swiss bank account bulges with the bloodprice of others mindless conflicts. Obviously not a friend of Carl Sagan. Ghengis Khan?
@jers59 Bomber Harris is often quoted as an example of a psychopath who has been given ultimate power and who used it to destroy people because he could, not because it was necessary. Germany was being steamrollered by Russia in any case. It was all about politics and 'sending a message'. Mass destruction of civilians is indefensible in any context. You clearly have never seen the consequences of illigitimate and indiscriminate bombing on innocent civilians, I have. I come from Belfast..!
@hmscollingwood lets see germany started the war they bombed Guernica when no war was declared killed millions in Soviet Union, final solution, you reap what you sow. It was Russians who asked for Dresden to be bombed it was important rail center and when was Belfast carpet bombed? All I know the japs said they would never surrender couple hundred B29 Bombers lighting up tokyo and just 2 nuking hiroshima and nagasaki each helped change there minds. God Bless allied bomber crews
@jers59 I quess that Ozark Mountain Men are still alive and living in nuclear shelters - just in case. With people like you running the world there will me no question about mass self extinction. Bring it on Mr Gung Ho, the world is your battle ground. You should get a proper job, like an international arms dealer and watch both sides slaughter each other while your Swiss bank account bulges with the bloodprice of others mindless conflicts. Obviously not a friend of Carl Sagan. Ghengis Khan?
@hmscollingwood Carl Sagan has passed and Im from New Jersey not Arkansas history lesson for you. The inbreds who live in ozark mountains West Virginia came from lowlands of Scotland the english tired of all problems from them shipped them to Ireland to fight the irish the present day scot irish, but they were to close to london so they were shipped to Pennsylvania the colonist in PA did not want them forced them out where they migrated to mountains of tennessee, WV,ARK they are your kin folks.
@jers59 Correction, they are Americans, not my kin folk. Besides, how would I know where you live, or for that matter care. All Fascists look the same to me, whatever rock they crawl from under. America in the last 60 years has shown itself to be the dumbest nation on earth, considering its wealth and size. Over consumption followed by financial and military bullying of most of the world. Eventually, all the oil will run out, then the water, and finally food. Then America will have no wars.
@hmscollingwood Wrong again Einstein Oil will not run out there is plenty in shale and sand out in western U.S. and Canada, offshore the US east coast and gulf with new technology that oil can now be drilled and in undeveloped areas of Alaska. I drive big V8 car ad have no problem doing so and if some caribou in alaska dies because of it I have no problem sleeping If need be US should invade Saudi Arabia and take the oil fields as Nixon ordered US miltary to make plans to do so in 1973
@hmscollingwood Well then who developed the internet you should stop using it, the A bomb, drones to kill muslim terrorist, nuclear power, next time you have to go up to 50th floor in high rise take the stairs not the elevator, toss the microwave in the bin along with your cell phone, only shop in stores that do not use bar code, do not use GPS and if you catch AIDS go see african witch doctor
@jers59 Correction, they are Americans, not my kin folk. Besides, how would I know where you live, or for that matter care. All Fascists look the same to me, whatever rock they crawl from under. America in the last 60 years has shown itself to be the dumbest nation on earth, considering its wealth and size. Over consumption followed by financial and military bullying of most of the world. Eventually, all the oil will run out, then the water, and finally food. Then America will have no wars.
@jers59 As a matter of fact Belfast was heavily bombed by the Luftwaffe during WW2 as it had Harland & Wolff which was the biggest shipyard in the world at the time. During that period hundreds were killed. H & W built many battleships, cruisers, destroyers, etc. during WW2 and beside it was Short and Harland which was building, among other craft, the Short Flying Boat. Which just about sums up the typical level of international knowledge of the average American - most don't have a passport.
@hmscollingwood please give me the names of battleships and cruisers built by Harland and Wolff inn WW2? I believe the brits built 5 BB,s in WW2 none in northern ireland. I believe you did build the Titanic at H&W however, the ship that god himself could not sink . I been to 22 countries been to UK 4 times since may 2010 will be back this november could you pick me up at Manchester airport and drop me off in Chorley? Short flying boat, I believe it was Catalina that found the bismarck
@jers59 As a matter of fact Belfast was heavily bombed by the Luftwaffe during WW2 as it had Harland & Wolff which was the biggest shipyard in the world at the time. During that period hundreds were killed. H & W built many battleships, cruisers, destroyers, etc. during WW2 and beside it was Short and Harland which was building, among other craft, the Short Flying Boat. Which just about sums up the typical level of international knowledge of the average American - most don't have a passport.
@chloe7829 All the combatants in WW2 bombed indiscriminately I wish they had not.Some times in the UK you can find Chinese Tsingtau beer brewed original for the German Navy next time I see it I will drink to your Opa.
Admiral Craddock was a great admirer of the Kaiser, having a portrait on his quarters wall at the Kiel Regatta in 1914, according to Franz Von Papen. (A 'diplomatic' bomb sabateur in the USA and Canada in WW1, foreign ambassador of Herr Hitler in WW2. Entered diplomatic service in December 1913 as a military attaché to the German ambassador in the United States. Accredited to Mexico in early 1914 and observed the Mexican Revolution, returning to Washington, D.C. on the outbreak of World War I).
@chloe7829 SMS Tsingtau: cont... Laid up 02/08/1914 at Canton with skeleton crew for maintenance. Scuttled 21/03/1917, in deep water off the island of Shamien, near Canton, to avoid capture by Chinese. Attempts to salvage unsuccessful. A watery epitaph to German imperial pretensions of the time.
@jonewer He carried around a Chinese rifle bullet in his left lung for the rest of his life. Beatty, I believe, helped rescue him during the operation.
@FRAGIORGIO1 He died before I was old enough to speak to him about Jutland. I hadn't a clue until I did extensive research, this past 8 years.. My father was mostly tight lipped about everything. Religiously anti war, so Igrew up knowing virtually nothing at the time of his death in 1969.
@hmscollingwood Hey, quit putting shells into my Derfflinger, she is just too beautiful to be sunk. Seriously two years ago a build a 1;165 scale handbuilt model of the Derfflinger and I love to run her in company of my Seydlitz on a local lake. One of these days I have to figure out how to put pix on Youtube.
@chloe7829 At least in Dallas Texas you have the last remaining true 'dreadnought', USS Texas, well restored and in good fettle. More than can be said for a navy which had 1000 ships at the beginning of WW1 and 3000 by the end. Only HMS Caroline, a light cruiser in dry dock, Belfast, N Ireland, remains as our reminder of Jutland - still used as a training ship. My grandfather would have known the Texas when she was at Scapa Flow and patrolling with the Grand Fleet, under Beatty by then.
@hmscollingwood Actually, the Texas is in Houston, which is just off a river mouth leading to the Gulf of Mexico. It was in the 6th Battle Squadron (US battleships) of the Grand Fleet towards the end of the war, as you said, and in WW II fought in both the Atlantic and Pacific! I found it most interesting that you still have HMS Caroline from WW I in Belfast. Thanks for that information. Your grandfather was in the Grand Fleet: Marvelous! What a privilege. Did he tell you anything?
@hmscollingwood "Prince Albert" was later King George VI to those not familiar. I heard he had wanted to get a view of the battle, and the turret chief told him to get his fool head back in! I believe the prince, who was a sub lieutenant, used a pseudonym so as to avoid any privileged treatment. Fascinating that your grandfather was at Jutland on the Collingwood! Have you some good stories from him?
@FRAGIORGIO1 According to 'P.A' or Mr Johnson' also referred to, in 'The King's Speech' as another pseudonym, he wrote to an aunt saying that he was sitting on top of 'A' turret roof watching the germans running into the Grand Fleet's guns and the Collingwood was straddled by the Derfflinger at 8,500 yards the Collingwood replied and tore a hole in her fo'rd port superstructure, at 7.15pm. Presumably afteer being drenched and spotted he was ordered to get down, knocking over a stout Lt ..
@hmscollingwood Thank you for your very ample and interesting information on that event!! I saw some ships that looked like members of the Collingwood's class and wonder if it might have been her, although the Bellerophons looked very similar. You have a fascinating amount of knowledge about that stupendous occasion. Would you have a model of the Collingwood? My regards and friendship!
@FRAGIORGIO1 I am sorry I don't have a model of the Collingwood. She was the second of the St Vincent class which was the 3rd generation after Dreadnought. Each stage slightly bigger and better, culminating in the huge Queen Elizabeths. My grandfrather was a gunnery instructer until she was scrapped in March 1923, at St Peter Port, Isle of Wight. She came to Brighton in July 1914 on her way to the Spithead Review, with the 1st Battle Squadron, 8500 sailors feted for 3 days, where I now live.
@hmscollingwood I imagine they no longer make models of the Collingwood etc, but maybe you could make a simple one. As a youngster I made Grand Fleet ships out of balsa wood at a scale of 1 inch to 100 feet and used pins for cannons and masts. Painted the decks with varnish and the hulls dark grey. i think I had one of that class, but that was 50 years ago that I last saw them.
.. as he pushed open the rear turret door. The 5000 degrees fireball from the Collingwood's 12" H.E. shell split the German's decks and set her on fire and she pulled out of line, probably to clear the smoke. Prince Albert was disappointed that the Collingwood, didn't have a scratch on her after the battle,,! My grandfather and he got together again outside Belfast City Hall when King George VI visited during his Coronation tour, 1937.. They talked for 5 minutes in front of a crowd of 150,000.
@hmscollingwood Wow! Quite an experience! Old sailors and their memories. Interesting to note that George V as Duke of York had been a naval officer as was Duke of York, later George VI . Previously King William IV had been a navy man also.
@trent8002003 The large tripod was put on late in the war among the latest big ships. I've seen pictures of Bayern with tripod masts as well. They would have been more stable than a simple pole mast for viewing.
Interesting shot of the ship after it was raised with the portable dry dock while still inverted. The main turrets are still mounted. When Bismark capsized as he was sinking the turrets feel free since they were only held on by gravity.
The problem was the shells from Woolwich Arsenal.They burst on contact rather than penetrating so causing tremendous damage but not sinking the German ships. This was the exact opposite to the battle of the Somme were woolwich shells were not sensative enough!
The finest class of warship ever fielded by Germany. Better than all the British B.C.'s except tiger. Much better balance than Renown, Repiulse and Hood. Along with the Kongo's the Finest battlecruiser class ever built. Showed their worth at Jutland. Only the arrival of the Queen Elizebaths saved Beatty's battlecruisers at Jutland. Also an elegant and balanced design.
My favourite would be Hindenburg, certainly these three ships were very fine indeed, they did get a battering though she fired 298 12inch shells with 16 hits, she was hit 21 times hits from Indomitable damaged the torpedo nets, had to stop for 2 minutes
15 inch from Revenge penetrated German thick armour X barbette
at end 3350 tons of flood water aboard
repairs at Kiel only completed 15th October had the weather been rough, wilhelmshaven further away, more daylight for the battle, etc- the end
I recommend the book „The two white nations written by Fregattenkapitän Georg v. Haase, 1st Artillery Officer SMS Derflinger, a full documentation of the „Skagerrak Victory and superior leadership (Hipper) & technology
Im looking all those ships from ww1, Seydlitz, Derfflinger, Dreadnought, Iron Duke, Warspite, Invincible...And i cant say which one of them is more interesting of another.
the battlecruisers on both sides have always fascinated me from WW1 , i guess because they saw so much action.
battles of heligoland 1 and 2 , the falklands , gallipoli , the dogger bank , the raids on the british seaside towns and jutland. almost forgot the goeben :)
Yes I also forgot the Goben(Yavus)stated that Renown was the last Battlecruiser,even though I knew the Yavus was not scraped until 1972,rapidly put right.
Think Konig is in the deepest of water at Scapa flow, over on the side,not possible to refloat at the time, but now any thing is possible with the time and money.
Think the hardest part would be to prevent the steel from cording in air after so long in salt water,think the way to do this is to flush with millions of m/3 of fresh water,I have access to Europe's largest man made reservoir!
Should be the Alqueva Reservoir in Portugal, but I think so much water can also exist in Scotland! But where?
Conservation of steel is no problem, the Germans lifted a XXI boat and put it back into service. And with money enough you can polish and paint whatever needs!
I live about 65 miles from the Scottish boarder,in the mid seventies a reservoir was built at a place called Kielder at the time it was the largest in Western Europe and surrounded by the largest man made forest but by know there are probably bigger,some years ago the first RN submarine was found,it sunk under tow to a scrap yard early 20th century and was raised and preserved ,only diff is the scale.
Yes have seen that picture of Holland,apparently he designed his submarines so Irish nationalists could attack the RN,then sold them the design when he seen the colour of the money.
The Black Crew is a direct translation from me. In the German Navy the Machinery personal is called "Black Crew" because they were always dirty. The "real sailors" condemned them, because their carrier was a technical career as engineer and because their ancestors were not members of the nobility.
I have reports from Derfflinger describing how arrogant the engineers were treated and how disgusting especially the firemen were patronized. So the ventilation of their living quarters had to be switched off at night, because the officers felt disturbed by the noise.
It was nearly inevitable that a crew, mistreated in such a miserable way was ready to mutiny and the communist baiters harvested what those morons sowed.
Misunderstood that post now I understand,I am defiantly a Jellicoist,over here there is a saying "do not speek ill of the dead"but with Beatty I will allow myself an exception,it was poetic justice that Beatty died as a result of a chill picked up at Jellicoes funeral.
Some pictures are hard to date,I think the most of the RN ships had the nets removed before J/S but artists often show the ships with them,IIR Derfflinger,s net fowled a prop during the battle,ot was it Von der tan.
where comes the music from? Battle for England (film) or am I wrong?
jeanmaxkortex 1 month ago
@jeanmaxkortex no you are right music is the Luftwaffe theme from the 1969 film The battle of Britain.
elswick1542 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
The Hood is sometimes used as an example of the best Battlecruiser but I beleive the Derrflinger class was if not the best second after the Kongo class. The Derrflingers were beuatiful well bvalanced ships. The flaw's in the Hood became obvious when it blew in half the hull was stressed too much.
scottduncan44 2 months ago
Absolutely no photos available about the inside of this bloody turrets. Maybe too dangerous to use flashlights? Forbidden due to classification?
No drawings available too, shit.
Will try to get access to operating instructions.
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 Close look at a 11" gun diagram,this time I think I have an answer.Definitely has a loading chamber that revolves with the gun house inside the fixed mount,the cylindrical hoist is attached at the bottom to the lower platform deck,think it rotates with the loading chamber on a bearing so its not just gravity that holds it in.11"/12" are probably light enough that this holds the turret in inverted.
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542 15" is probably so heavy this bearing fails and the turret falls out.Possible?
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
Absolutely possible if not inevitable. In addition I can say that the WW I war turrets, also the 38cm, have nothing to do with the turrets of Bismarck- and (never installed) Scharnhorst class. Maybe the desire for higher elevation and usage of reduced charges for plunging fire requested a totally new construction.
And, when a vessel capsized nobody cared about the turrets anymore!
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 Yes Bismarck's guns were a new design but you just can not tell some people.
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
We are The Happy Few.
robinhood48 2 months ago
@elswick1542 Bismark's guns were a design by Ansaldo (Italy) used on the Littorio class battleships which were not only as good or better than the Bismark but actually had a useful service
scottduncan44 2 months ago
@scottduncan44 Bismarck's guns were designed by Krupp they used a sliding breach with a main charge in a brass case,fore charge silk bag,Shell was 800kg 1764lb Mv 820mps.
Littorio used interrupted screw breech all charges in 6 silk bags.Shell 1,951 lbs. (885 kg)Mv 2,789 fps (850 mps) The Italian gun was the most powerful 15" ever made with the longest range of any BB gun.
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
Longest range and superb accuracy if they could use satisfying quality ammo and projectiles.
Problem was poor barrel life and massive dispersion.
Like Ferrari- wonderful design but poor craftsmanship!
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 Yes never hit a thing(contrary to popular belief it was not for the want of trying) ,very poor quality control of the shells IIR barrel life was only 100 shots all the Regina Marina guns were extreme,6 bags of propellant!
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
Also interesting rate of fire!
Possible that twin turrets enable the crew to provide higher loading speed? Also important is loading angle.
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 Best design and all time classic 4 twins,simple,effective,accurate,fast.Fixed angle loading.
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
We two of us live in the wrong century.
Right now Meyer Yard launched a new cruise ship, 340 meters long looking like a trash can. Instead of bull eyes the mounted monitors where you can see the sea through a web cam.
This is so pervert!
Same for war ships- this stupid "stealth" design of today....
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 History seems to show that stealth will be made obsolete by some sort of new sensor tech.Every time something is made hard to find an invention follows that finds it.
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
Anti Submarine Detection Investigation Committee
HFDF für High-Frequency Direction Finding HUFF/DUFF
Two French invented this Huffduff, the Brits used it and the German U- Boats were killed by it.
History is like a big carousel- you always see the same kid passing by but it wears different clothes each time.
robinhood48 1 month ago 2
@robinhood48
Exactly it never ends.I see the U-212,s are made from none magnetic steel,future Barracuda torpedoes and with silent fuel cell,noise coatings that's some combination! take a long time to find a detection method.Maybe in future active sonar will return.
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
Germans used anti- magnetic steel during the 60ties, was total crap due to bad controlling.
212 can dive 100 meters, no 200 meters, no 250, no 300... now they admit 450, real depth will be told to commander when case of emergency comes along, I estimate somewhat between 600 and 800.
One VII C is reported with 300 meters, survived.
Active sonar is a good thing only above cold water sections. Always a good advice is to keep ears open and mouth shut!
robinhood48 1 month ago
@robinhood48 Read an article a few years ago. When Goodall the Naval construction director for most of WW2 was shown around U-570 he could not understand why the frames were so light but the hull was so thick IIR the designers used a calculation developed for high pressure boilers. Think 800m possible 600m no problem,think it was U-331 that dived to 300m, Back in the 60,s Leander class frigates had a sonar that could be lowered below the cold layers maybe time for a comeback.
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
Tiesenhausen, the Barham killer?
Agree to that underwater sonar thing, a problem could be the limited horizontal range. But they will find something, that´s for sure.
robinhood48 1 month ago
@robinhood48 Yes that's the boat,I have a depth of 950ft+so near enough 300m.
Another problem with modern cruise ships! if your power fails go to the boats!
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
Depends.
If you sail with Italian cruise follow the captain and crew to find the boats.
robinhood48 1 month ago
@robinhood48 Latest version of the story here,the captain sailed close to the Island so he could wave at a Friend! it can not be true.........?
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
Latest over here is captain entered life boat to have better chance to coordinate emergency measures.
When the Italian navy surrendered to GB, betraying Germany by abandoning the Axis Treaty, the Brits received the capitulation by sending a destroyer. Seems they were right until today.
robinhood48 1 month ago
@robinhood48 Same version but according to the BBC he fell into the life boat! Italians driving cars are a bit scary 100,000t ships lethal.
elswick1542 1 month ago
@elswick1542
When "Wilhelm Gustloff" was torpedoed, only the people on upper decks could escape. They succeeded in letting down some life boats but failed in rescuing the 12000 refugees, mostly women with their children. In last moment Captain Petersen jumped into the water and was picked up be life boat. He never got over the shame, ended similar like Ismay.
robinhood48 1 month ago
@elswick1542
While a visit of Maginot line I was given the opportunity (after I successfully started an old diesel engine) to operate one of the turrets. It was amazing how simply and easily this huge machinery can be moved without using any electricity!
robinhood48 2 months ago
@robinhood48 Good engineering and exact balance,
elswick1542 2 months ago
@elswick1542
They had no digital systems of measurement and control but normal control engineering, so they had to design exactly. There was no computer to cover design flaws like today, and they had to do the maths by hand and brain. This was a time when not each asshole could become an engineer.
robinhood48 2 months ago
Derflinger's turrets held in place not by their weight alone....neat.
PotatoGunsRule 3 months ago
Superb pictures, thanks for posting.
xxxchrist1 4 months ago
The USS Texas was one of the ships that served under Beatty's command, and is (albeit barely) still afloat in Galveston, TX as the world's oldest remaining dreadnought. Also one of a few remaining, I believe, to have seen service in both WWs.
7EMERSON9 5 months ago
SMS Derfflinger was a solid fighting ship. Bit rough on old Beatty there, though. I think he did as well as any commander could have under the circumstances. The High Seas Fleet was turned back by this action (Jutland), the Brits were stronger than before in a month or so afterward, and the surface threat to England was essentially nullified. I think Beatty ran a top notch outfit, and our (U.S.) BBs picked up valuable experience serving under him as they did for a time.
7EMERSON9 5 months ago
@7EMERSON9 Beatty was a joke - he placed far too much emphasis on rapidity of fire and not accurate shooting. The 1st and 2nd BCS had the worst shooting of any unit on either side. This led to dangerous ammunition handling practices that destroyed a third of his command, and nearly killed him as well.
parsecboy 4 months ago
@parsecboy He made serious errors, easily identifiable after the fact, which led to unnacceptable losses. The degradation in ammo handling which took place under him was particularly egregious. However I suspect that had he the chance again some months later, he would have corrected his mistakes. Naval history has many of these one sided early engagements; how would he have fared against the Japs in '42? Probably would have died before he had the chance to improve himself there, I'd say.
7EMERSON9 4 months ago
the last pictures are not derflinger, she arrived for breaking up the right way up..get the book" cox,s navy" for pictures
boleynali 6 months ago
@boleynali Are you thinking of Badem? all books and web reserch I did for this point to Derfflinger being inverted when scraped I also have a book about HMS Rodney some of who,s crew visited the ship in WW2 and said it was upside down in a floating dock.
elswick1542 6 months ago
@elswick1542 sorry amigo, its my mistake, i got it mixed up with the HINDENBURG, same class, but unfortunately 4 me the wrong ship.apart from the ships that were saved shortly after the scuttling, the rest of the capital ships that were scrapped were all inverted except for HINDENBURG. seriously,get cox,s navy by Tony Booth.it tells you all about the trials and tribulations of raising the german fleet at scapa..
boleynali 6 months ago
@elswick1542
You were right as always. Derfflinger capsized while sinking and was brought to dry dock upside down.
Hull was raised 1939, then works were interrupted by war, in 1946 hull was taken to breakers.
Breaking was done in Clyde, Scotland.
Interesting- the turrets did not fall off like it happened to Bismarck.
robinhood48 3 months ago
@robinhood48 Very odd looking picture of the turrets.Bayerns 381mm did fall of they were not salvaged.Popular with divers.
elswick1542 3 months ago
@elswick1542
After some turret jams they used ball bearings for the heavy 38 cm artillery instead of roller bearings. Since then the turrets were held in position by own weight.
Not sure about König class.
robinhood48 3 months ago
@robinhood48 Picture of this turret type shows no working chamber,charges lifted by tube hoist and shells direct to guns,possible the turret is attached direct to the mounting not working chamber to mounting making for a stronger structure?
elswick1542 3 months ago
@elswick1542
Good idea, not sure.
Handling of charges was easy, shells were locked by a big screw which had to be removed to install bottom fuse, another screw had to be removed to install nose fuse (if required). It´s said they fired 3 rounds in 48 seconds which would require a separate working room below firing area.
Will have to look. Interesting question, really.
robinhood48 3 months ago
@robinhood48 Might be thinking of the 11" turret.Seen some film of I think this gun being loaded.Shells delivered to the side of the gun tipped over onto a tray then power rammed,main charge and fore charge delivered to side of gun again tipped and rammed,very simple and fast with only the fore charge exposed to flash for a short time.Its hard to id the type as normally only pictures of the outside are seen.
elswick1542 3 months ago
@elswick1542
We are talking about the 30.50 L 50 SK (12") of SMS Derfflinger?
robinhood48 3 months ago
@robinhood48 Yes that's the gun, on my Iron Duke vid at 5.20 i am convinced that's the same gun loading.Reading an old book now available on Kindle"by ADM Scheer"just passed Dogger Bank"all 8 ready use rounds were deleted after the fire on Seydlitz"Sink the Bismarck was filmed on Vanguard same turret as Jutland on Qe class only the loading cage is flash proof.
elswick1542 3 months ago
@elswick1542
The Bismarck movie, where they showed the loading procedure using a film of loading drill on HMS Vanguard?
Hope I recall correctly.
Anyway, you should be totally right. The characters SK mean Schnelladekanone (Fast loading gun), because the loading drill went similar to the description you just gave. The actually did not need a big stowage inside turret because they only stowed the fuses of the shells, charges were in silk bags anyway.
robinhood48 3 months ago
@elswick1542
The ramming was done by hydraulic, you can see the tubes and hoses in the last photo of your (excellent) video. The locking device could be operated with electricity, must have been quite dangerous in turret A.
I´m sure that after Doggerbank no charges were stowed in turrets. Since 1906 charges did not explode but burnt rapidly due to use of centralite. (RP 06/Zentralit)
robinhood48 3 months ago
@robinhood48 Dug out the book with the diagram my memory is going it a Drh.L C/1908 28cm not the gun on Derfflinger and it has a loading chamber but it looks like only for the shell and probably not the charges.
elswick1542 3 months ago
@elswick1542
According to my opinion.
Anyway- orders and battle rules are one thing, the battle itself is another game with own rules. We will never know what they REALLY did in these turrets.Must have been many blind eyes, never mentioned in log books!
robinhood48 3 months ago
@boleynali You're thinking of Hindenburg, the only battlecruiser that was raised right-side-up. There are no pictures of Derfflinger in Cox's Navy. Derfflinger was indeed raised capsized.
parsecboy 4 months ago
@parsecboy.. if you read my 2nd post just above yours, you,ll find that i admitted i made a mistake and it was indeed Hindenburg that arrived right way up and not Derfflinger...cheers.
boleynali 4 months ago
I have to tuck in now as it's after 2:00 hours here zulu time. There is a 6ft model I believe, transferred from HMS Collingwood, land base, now in the gunnery school at, HMS Excellent, Whale Island, as I was advised when a couple of years ago I visited on an open day. As yet I haven't set eyes on this fabled model. There are quite a few in the Science Museum, London, with HMS Vanguard among others.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
The germans must to stopo that guilti complex and built a modern cruiser with this name Derflinger
FOCKEWULFD9 7 months ago
@FOCKEWULFD9 And a sister ship with the great name Seydlitz.
elswick1542 6 months ago
2:15 - Is that not HMS Lion's Q Turret at Juland?
jonewer 7 months ago
@jonewer yes its thought to have been hit by Derfflinger.
elswick1542 6 months ago
@elswick1542 The hit that destroyed Lions' Q turret came from Lutzow, not Derfflinger. Derfflinger was firing at Princess Royal when Lion's Q turret was hit.
trent8002003 6 months ago
@trent8002003 Same gun same class,probably thinking about the hit at Dogger Bank at the time that hit the belt.
elswick1542 6 months ago
@elswick1542 That's true. The Dogger Bank hits were lethal too.
trent8002003 6 months ago
Hello Collingwood, thank you for the fascinating stories about grand paw. Please write these stories down so they will be preserved within your family. That is what I have done.
Chloe 7829 (Chloe is our cat)
chloe7829 8 months ago
It is a sad fact that up to immediately before the British declaration of war against Germany, due to the UK alliance with Belgium, the Royal Navy and Kreigsmarine were the best of friends, engaging in sports events with each other at naval gatherings, even to the point of exchanging friendly flags after departure from the Keil Regatta when war seemed inevitable. Now, more sensibly, we are on the same side. May it always remain so. Ultimately, Germany won its 'place in the sun' with car exports.
hmscollingwood 8 months ago
To był wspaniały okręt. Szkoda, że musiał zostać zatopiony, ale nie można było pozwolić żeby dżemojady przejęły Flotę Cesarską. Chwała Bohaterom !
strzelba44 8 months ago 2
7.15pm 31st May 1916 my grandfather's gun crew put a 12" shell into her forward port superstructure, splitting the decks, knocking out 2 x 6" guns and destroying a sick bay. You can see a sailor standing in the gap looking out with upended baths behind him. Prince Albert was sitting on top of 'A' turret when Derfflinger straddled HMS Collingwood with two salvoes @ 8500 yards. Later P. A. made cocoa for his gun crew, including my grandfather. They were reunited outside Belfast City Hall in 1937.
hmscollingwood 10 months ago
@hmscollingwood Prince Albert AKA KGVI.Colingwwod great name great ship.
elswick1542 10 months ago
@elswick1542 Thank you kind sir. My gunner grandfather later went on to serve in her until 1922 as a gunnery instructer when shewas demoted to a training ship until the fateful1922 Washington Naval Arms Limitation Treaty when so many of our faithful dreadnoughts were scrapped, including the Collingwood who's last voyage was to the Isle of Wight where she was scrapped at Newport in March 1923. She fired 84 heavies at Jutland with 2 hits on Derfflinger, so I believe, according to Prince Albert,,,
hmscollingwood 10 months ago
@hmscollingwood ADM Collingwood was a local hero his birthplace has a plack ,his memorial at Tynemouth has guns from the Royal Sov,good idea for a new vid.
elswick1542 10 months ago
@hmscollingwood Hi, my grandfather also served during the Battle of Jutland, but I don't know which German ship. Prior to WW I he served on the SMS Tsingtau based in Kioutchou, China, and even earlier he was part of the Allied expeditionary corps that came to the aid of the westerners in Beyjing. He regaled us kids with stories of his service.
chloe7829 8 months ago
@chloe7829 SMS Tsingtao was apparently a river gunboat, so it may have been left behind at the outbreak of war, or possibly scuttled (a fine old German tradition), at the outbreak of WW1. It was not mentioned in the Pacific Fleet commanded by Von Spee which came to grief at the Falklands after being chased down by a Royal Navy twin battlecruiser task force, sent by Churchill after the defeat of the antiquated force at Coronel under Admiral Craddock.
hmscollingwood 8 months ago
@hmscollingwood SMS Tsingtau. Vaterland Class (2 ships). 280 tons. Length: 50.1 metres. Beam 8 metres. Draught: 0.94 metres. SMS Vaterland: Launched: 26/08/1903. Captured by the Chinese, 20/03/1917. Apparently still lives as Batavia (?) but heavily converted up to 350 tons. Spent some time as lodgings for yacht club in 1950s. SMS Tsingtau: Launched 18/04/1904. Transported to China and re-assembled at Hong Kong. Operated on West River.
hmscollingwood 8 months ago
@hmscollingwood Hi Collingwood, During WW II while us two kids were seeking shelter in our basement in Cologne during an airraid, our grandfather would tell us of his adventures in China in the year of 1910 as a crewmember of SMS Tsingtau. My grandfather had a buddy also one who served in China and those two swapped yarns. To bad we didn't think of writing the stories down. Grandfather was killed in 1944 on the way to an airraid shelter just two days before he was to leave Cologne. RIP Opa
chloe7829 7 months ago
@chloe7829 Sorry to hear about your 'Opa' in Cologne'. You have 'Bomber' Harris to thank for that. We had Coventry, deliberately left exposed by Churchill. Where I hail from, Belfast, N Ireland, Catholics put on their lights and pulled back the curtains to spite the British during a Luftwaffe raid - guess what happened? Not a city known for political sophistication... to this day.
hmscollingwood 7 months ago
@hmscollingwood the reason you can post that remark is because of Bomber Harris and Charles Lemay who did the job and won the war. Very easy to post that remark in PC 2000 where allied bomber crews are considered war crimminals and nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is mentioned as greatest war crime in history, despite the japs murdering a lot more, chinese, filippinos and other civilians and allied POWS then japs who died in 2 bombings .
jers59 6 months ago
@jers59 Dear Sir, You sound like a narcissistic psychopath who always justifies his violence towards his victims by citing that his victims 'provoked him'. I know your type and have been with many in my life to recognise diseased thinking, devoid of human compassion or moral moderation. Yes there were more murdered in Nanking than Heroshima and Nagasaki combined. Many Japanese still refuse to apologise. Likewise, there are Nazis today who deny the Holocaust. Then there is Abu Ghraib, Rwanda..?
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Dear DR Fraud My MOS in Marines was nuclear projectileman had to pass several psych test and had to pass one for my present job, so Im no narcissistic pscho. How many died in abu ghraib? terrorist are not covered by geneva convention i believe they should be shot on sight no prisoners and GW Bush was wimp he should have had those terrorist executed before he left office no dead terrorist ever killed again. Rwanda? when whites were running Africa you had no Rwanda,s
jers59 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Dear DR Fraud My MOS in Marines was nuclear projectileman had to pass several psych test and had to pass one for my present job, so Im no narcissistic pscho. How many died in abu ghraib? terrorist are not covered by geneva convention i believe they should be shot on sight no prisoners and GW Bush was wimp he should have had those terrorist executed before he left office no dead terrorist ever killed again. Rwanda? when whites were running Africa you had no Rwanda,s
jers59 6 months ago
@jers59 I quess that Ozark Mountain Men are still alive and living in nuclear shelters - just in case. With people like you running the world there will me no question about mass self extinction. Bring it on Mr Gung Ho, the world is your battle ground. You should get a proper job, like an international arms dealer and watch both sides slaughter each other while your Swiss bank account bulges with the bloodprice of others mindless conflicts. Obviously not a friend of Carl Sagan. Ghengis Khan?
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@jers59 Bomber Harris is often quoted as an example of a psychopath who has been given ultimate power and who used it to destroy people because he could, not because it was necessary. Germany was being steamrollered by Russia in any case. It was all about politics and 'sending a message'. Mass destruction of civilians is indefensible in any context. You clearly have never seen the consequences of illigitimate and indiscriminate bombing on innocent civilians, I have. I come from Belfast..!
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood lets see germany started the war they bombed Guernica when no war was declared killed millions in Soviet Union, final solution, you reap what you sow. It was Russians who asked for Dresden to be bombed it was important rail center and when was Belfast carpet bombed? All I know the japs said they would never surrender couple hundred B29 Bombers lighting up tokyo and just 2 nuking hiroshima and nagasaki each helped change there minds. God Bless allied bomber crews
jers59 6 months ago
@jers59 I quess that Ozark Mountain Men are still alive and living in nuclear shelters - just in case. With people like you running the world there will me no question about mass self extinction. Bring it on Mr Gung Ho, the world is your battle ground. You should get a proper job, like an international arms dealer and watch both sides slaughter each other while your Swiss bank account bulges with the bloodprice of others mindless conflicts. Obviously not a friend of Carl Sagan. Ghengis Khan?
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Carl Sagan has passed and Im from New Jersey not Arkansas history lesson for you. The inbreds who live in ozark mountains West Virginia came from lowlands of Scotland the english tired of all problems from them shipped them to Ireland to fight the irish the present day scot irish, but they were to close to london so they were shipped to Pennsylvania the colonist in PA did not want them forced them out where they migrated to mountains of tennessee, WV,ARK they are your kin folks.
jers59 6 months ago
@jers59 Correction, they are Americans, not my kin folk. Besides, how would I know where you live, or for that matter care. All Fascists look the same to me, whatever rock they crawl from under. America in the last 60 years has shown itself to be the dumbest nation on earth, considering its wealth and size. Over consumption followed by financial and military bullying of most of the world. Eventually, all the oil will run out, then the water, and finally food. Then America will have no wars.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Wrong again Einstein Oil will not run out there is plenty in shale and sand out in western U.S. and Canada, offshore the US east coast and gulf with new technology that oil can now be drilled and in undeveloped areas of Alaska. I drive big V8 car ad have no problem doing so and if some caribou in alaska dies because of it I have no problem sleeping If need be US should invade Saudi Arabia and take the oil fields as Nixon ordered US miltary to make plans to do so in 1973
jers59 5 months ago
@hmscollingwood Well then who developed the internet you should stop using it, the A bomb, drones to kill muslim terrorist, nuclear power, next time you have to go up to 50th floor in high rise take the stairs not the elevator, toss the microwave in the bin along with your cell phone, only shop in stores that do not use bar code, do not use GPS and if you catch AIDS go see african witch doctor
jers59 5 months ago
@jers59
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jers59 Correction, they are Americans, not my kin folk. Besides, how would I know where you live, or for that matter care. All Fascists look the same to me, whatever rock they crawl from under. America in the last 60 years has shown itself to be the dumbest nation on earth, considering its wealth and size. Over consumption followed by financial and military bullying of most of the world. Eventually, all the oil will run out, then the water, and finally food. Then America will have no wars.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@jers59 As a matter of fact Belfast was heavily bombed by the Luftwaffe during WW2 as it had Harland & Wolff which was the biggest shipyard in the world at the time. During that period hundreds were killed. H & W built many battleships, cruisers, destroyers, etc. during WW2 and beside it was Short and Harland which was building, among other craft, the Short Flying Boat. Which just about sums up the typical level of international knowledge of the average American - most don't have a passport.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood please give me the names of battleships and cruisers built by Harland and Wolff inn WW2? I believe the brits built 5 BB,s in WW2 none in northern ireland. I believe you did build the Titanic at H&W however, the ship that god himself could not sink . I been to 22 countries been to UK 4 times since may 2010 will be back this november could you pick me up at Manchester airport and drop me off in Chorley? Short flying boat, I believe it was Catalina that found the bismarck
jers59 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jers59 As a matter of fact Belfast was heavily bombed by the Luftwaffe during WW2 as it had Harland & Wolff which was the biggest shipyard in the world at the time. During that period hundreds were killed. H & W built many battleships, cruisers, destroyers, etc. during WW2 and beside it was Short and Harland which was building, among other craft, the Short Flying Boat. Which just about sums up the typical level of international knowledge of the average American - most don't have a passport.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@chloe7829 All the combatants in WW2 bombed indiscriminately I wish they had not.Some times in the UK you can find Chinese Tsingtau beer brewed original for the German Navy next time I see it I will drink to your Opa.
elswick1542 5 months ago
Admiral Craddock was a great admirer of the Kaiser, having a portrait on his quarters wall at the Kiel Regatta in 1914, according to Franz Von Papen. (A 'diplomatic' bomb sabateur in the USA and Canada in WW1, foreign ambassador of Herr Hitler in WW2. Entered diplomatic service in December 1913 as a military attaché to the German ambassador in the United States. Accredited to Mexico in early 1914 and observed the Mexican Revolution, returning to Washington, D.C. on the outbreak of World War I).
hmscollingwood 8 months ago
@chloe7829 SMS Tsingtau: cont... Laid up 02/08/1914 at Canton with skeleton crew for maintenance. Scuttled 21/03/1917, in deep water off the island of Shamien, near Canton, to avoid capture by Chinese. Attempts to salvage unsuccessful. A watery epitaph to German imperial pretensions of the time.
hmscollingwood 8 months ago
@chloe7829 Thats interesting. Jellicoe aslo took part and was wounded in the Boxer Rebellion.
jonewer 7 months ago
@jonewer He carried around a Chinese rifle bullet in his left lung for the rest of his life. Beatty, I believe, helped rescue him during the operation.
hmscollingwood 7 months ago
@chloe7829 Too bad you didn't get the details about his service at Jutland?Skaggerak. He must have had a lot of interesting stories to tell.
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
@FRAGIORGIO1 He died before I was old enough to speak to him about Jutland. I hadn't a clue until I did extensive research, this past 8 years.. My father was mostly tight lipped about everything. Religiously anti war, so Igrew up knowing virtually nothing at the time of his death in 1969.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Hey, quit putting shells into my Derfflinger, she is just too beautiful to be sunk. Seriously two years ago a build a 1;165 scale handbuilt model of the Derfflinger and I love to run her in company of my Seydlitz on a local lake. One of these days I have to figure out how to put pix on Youtube.
Chloe 7829 (Chloe is our cat)
Dallas, Texas
chloe7829 7 months ago
@chloe7829 Great ships must be great models! easy cheep digital camera+computer.
elswick1542 7 months ago
@chloe7829 At least in Dallas Texas you have the last remaining true 'dreadnought', USS Texas, well restored and in good fettle. More than can be said for a navy which had 1000 ships at the beginning of WW1 and 3000 by the end. Only HMS Caroline, a light cruiser in dry dock, Belfast, N Ireland, remains as our reminder of Jutland - still used as a training ship. My grandfather would have known the Texas when she was at Scapa Flow and patrolling with the Grand Fleet, under Beatty by then.
hmscollingwood 7 months ago
@hmscollingwood Actually, the Texas is in Houston, which is just off a river mouth leading to the Gulf of Mexico. It was in the 6th Battle Squadron (US battleships) of the Grand Fleet towards the end of the war, as you said, and in WW II fought in both the Atlantic and Pacific! I found it most interesting that you still have HMS Caroline from WW I in Belfast. Thanks for that information. Your grandfather was in the Grand Fleet: Marvelous! What a privilege. Did he tell you anything?
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood "Prince Albert" was later King George VI to those not familiar. I heard he had wanted to get a view of the battle, and the turret chief told him to get his fool head back in! I believe the prince, who was a sub lieutenant, used a pseudonym so as to avoid any privileged treatment. Fascinating that your grandfather was at Jutland on the Collingwood! Have you some good stories from him?
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
@FRAGIORGIO1 According to 'P.A' or Mr Johnson' also referred to, in 'The King's Speech' as another pseudonym, he wrote to an aunt saying that he was sitting on top of 'A' turret roof watching the germans running into the Grand Fleet's guns and the Collingwood was straddled by the Derfflinger at 8,500 yards the Collingwood replied and tore a hole in her fo'rd port superstructure, at 7.15pm. Presumably afteer being drenched and spotted he was ordered to get down, knocking over a stout Lt ..
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Thank you for your very ample and interesting information on that event!! I saw some ships that looked like members of the Collingwood's class and wonder if it might have been her, although the Bellerophons looked very similar. You have a fascinating amount of knowledge about that stupendous occasion. Would you have a model of the Collingwood? My regards and friendship!
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
@FRAGIORGIO1 I am sorry I don't have a model of the Collingwood. She was the second of the St Vincent class which was the 3rd generation after Dreadnought. Each stage slightly bigger and better, culminating in the huge Queen Elizabeths. My grandfrather was a gunnery instructer until she was scrapped in March 1923, at St Peter Port, Isle of Wight. She came to Brighton in July 1914 on her way to the Spithead Review, with the 1st Battle Squadron, 8500 sailors feted for 3 days, where I now live.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood I imagine they no longer make models of the Collingwood etc, but maybe you could make a simple one. As a youngster I made Grand Fleet ships out of balsa wood at a scale of 1 inch to 100 feet and used pins for cannons and masts. Painted the decks with varnish and the hulls dark grey. i think I had one of that class, but that was 50 years ago that I last saw them.
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
.. as he pushed open the rear turret door. The 5000 degrees fireball from the Collingwood's 12" H.E. shell split the German's decks and set her on fire and she pulled out of line, probably to clear the smoke. Prince Albert was disappointed that the Collingwood, didn't have a scratch on her after the battle,,! My grandfather and he got together again outside Belfast City Hall when King George VI visited during his Coronation tour, 1937.. They talked for 5 minutes in front of a crowd of 150,000.
hmscollingwood 6 months ago
@hmscollingwood Wow! Quite an experience! Old sailors and their memories. Interesting to note that George V as Duke of York had been a naval officer as was Duke of York, later George VI . Previously King William IV had been a navy man also.
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
Extremely handsome ships. Even more so with pole mast.
trent8002003 10 months ago
@trent8002003 The large tripod was put on late in the war among the latest big ships. I've seen pictures of Bayern with tripod masts as well. They would have been more stable than a simple pole mast for viewing.
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
Fine killing machines, with crews of brave men, many of whom died for nothing!
What a waste! RIP!
Thanks for the good video & sound!
Miguel
Jedermann101 10 months ago
My favorite SMS BC
DerfflingaNew 1 year ago
Is the music a Luftwaffe tune? It was played during the opening credits of 1969's The Battle of Britain.
westlock 1 year ago
@westlock Its the Luftwaffa theme from the film,part of the soundtrack.
elswick1542 1 year ago
@elswick1542 Who wrote the music of this fine march?
FRAGIORGIO1 6 months ago
@FRAGIORGIO1 Luftwaffa theme from the film Battle of Britain don,t remember but may have been Ron Goodwin.
elswick1542 6 months ago
Interesting shot of the ship after it was raised with the portable dry dock while still inverted. The main turrets are still mounted. When Bismark capsized as he was sinking the turrets feel free since they were only held on by gravity.
norton996 1 year ago
@norton996 15" turrets on one of the German BB,S probably Byern also dropped out when scuttled in 1919 they are still at Scapa.
elswick1542 1 year ago
The problem was the shells from Woolwich Arsenal.They burst on contact rather than penetrating so causing tremendous damage but not sinking the German ships. This was the exact opposite to the battle of the Somme were woolwich shells were not sensative enough!
SvenTviking 1 year ago
The finest class of warship ever fielded by Germany. Better than all the British B.C.'s except tiger. Much better balance than Renown, Repiulse and Hood. Along with the Kongo's the Finest battlecruiser class ever built. Showed their worth at Jutland. Only the arrival of the Queen Elizebaths saved Beatty's battlecruisers at Jutland. Also an elegant and balanced design.
scottduncan44 1 year ago
Derfflinger was an outstanding WW1 Battlecruiser.
Better than anything Britain had
ToonandBBfan 1 year ago
My favourite would be Hindenburg, certainly these three ships were very fine indeed, they did get a battering though she fired 298 12inch shells with 16 hits, she was hit 21 times hits from Indomitable damaged the torpedo nets, had to stop for 2 minutes
15 inch from Revenge penetrated German thick armour X barbette
at end 3350 tons of flood water aboard
repairs at Kiel only completed 15th October had the weather been rough, wilhelmshaven further away, more daylight for the battle, etc- the end
caferacer56 2 years ago 2
I think the 15" hit on X barbette was the thickest plate penetrated by either side 280mm.
elswick1542 2 years ago
I recommend the book „The two white nations written by Fregattenkapitän Georg v. Haase, 1st Artillery Officer SMS Derflinger, a full documentation of the „Skagerrak Victory and superior leadership (Hipper) & technology
BlitzWotan 2 years ago 4
@BlitzWotan
IN English Kiel and Jutland,available in English free from Google books.
elswick1542 2 years ago
Im looking all those ships from ww1, Seydlitz, Derfflinger, Dreadnought, Iron Duke, Warspite, Invincible...And i cant say which one of them is more interesting of another.
Yamato980 2 years ago 7
What a choice though!
elswick1542 2 years ago
@Yamato980, each has a cetain personality, since each was built individually. In WWII, mass production made the ships more alike the others for sure.
Wolfen443 5 months ago
outstandig opload!
5 stars!
hairstyleriioohhh 2 years ago 7
Thanks.
elswick1542 2 years ago
good video ..
hollin61 2 years ago 3
5 stars.
robinhood48 2 years ago 4
the battlecruisers on both sides have always fascinated me from WW1 , i guess because they saw so much action.
battles of heligoland 1 and 2 , the falklands , gallipoli , the dogger bank , the raids on the british seaside towns and jutland. almost forgot the goeben :)
shathriel 2 years ago 3
Yes I also forgot the Goben(Yavus)stated that Renown was the last Battlecruiser,even though I knew the Yavus was not scraped until 1972,rapidly put right.
elswick1542 2 years ago
Ton for ton the best warships of WW1,fast battleships really not battlecruisers,sure your models look great.
elswick1542 2 years ago
0:59
Seydlitz with burning aft reloadings, Able Seaman Wilhelm Heidkamp just saving the ship by opening sea water valves.
A lesson to be learned before engaging Jutland battle!
robinhood48 2 years ago
Best Battlecruiser of WW1
ToonandBBfan 2 years ago
My number 1 BC,I take Renown for 2 and Derfflinger for 3.
elswick1542 2 years ago
should make that Seydlitz Renown Derfflinger.
elswick1542 2 years ago
1:20
It is the SMS "König" herself. She still lies on the bottom of Scapa Flow.
Being no Sea Grave she could be raised and restored.
robinhood48 2 years ago 2
Think Konig is in the deepest of water at Scapa flow, over on the side,not possible to refloat at the time, but now any thing is possible with the time and money.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick
Anyway, it should be done. Better invest the money there as to give it these crap banks!
robinhood48 2 years ago
@Robinhood48
Think the hardest part would be to prevent the steel from cording in air after so long in salt water,think the way to do this is to flush with millions of m/3 of fresh water,I have access to Europe's largest man made reservoir!
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick
Should be the Alqueva Reservoir in Portugal, but I think so much water can also exist in Scotland! But where?
Conservation of steel is no problem, the Germans lifted a XXI boat and put it back into service. And with money enough you can polish and paint whatever needs!
robinhood48 2 years ago 2
@Robinhood48
I live about 65 miles from the Scottish boarder,in the mid seventies a reservoir was built at a place called Kielder at the time it was the largest in Western Europe and surrounded by the largest man made forest but by know there are probably bigger,some years ago the first RN submarine was found,it sunk under tow to a scrap yard early 20th century and was raised and preserved ,only diff is the scale.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick
The first Holland class! I have a photo showing Holland entering his boat with hat and suit, this is such a funny picture.
Indeed, only Hunley stayed longer under water!
robinhood48 2 years ago
Yes have seen that picture of Holland,apparently he designed his submarines so Irish nationalists could attack the RN,then sold them the design when he seen the colour of the money.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick1542
"Pecunia non olet"
But the British never loved their submarines very much.
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
Very true,few submarines are remembered,have tried to compile a vid of HMS Upholder but found about 6 photographs.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick1542
You possibly could try to make a video of Thetis and the poor guys trying to escape.
This was a very dramatic story!
Also interesting a video of submarine accidents in general, many photos available!
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
possible video of two submarines involved in very strange events HMS Seal and U570.
elswick1542 2 years ago
It is a kind of bravery to join the submarines. But sometimes we have not bravery enough.
No shame, but the poor lads feel shame their whole life.
I sit behind my computer.
robinhood48 2 years ago 2
@robinhood48
Yes the most special kind of bravery,always glad that I don't live in interesting times.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick1542
Wait a while, my friend. Interesting times come sooner as we expect.
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
Very true,seems to be more than the usual number of small wars around the world at the moment,just have to hope they don't spread.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick1542
I see, both of us are "Jellicoeistes"!
The Black Crew is a direct translation from me. In the German Navy the Machinery personal is called "Black Crew" because they were always dirty. The "real sailors" condemned them, because their carrier was a technical career as engineer and because their ancestors were not members of the nobility.
robinhood48 2 years ago
@elswick1542 cont
I have reports from Derfflinger describing how arrogant the engineers were treated and how disgusting especially the firemen were patronized. So the ventilation of their living quarters had to be switched off at night, because the officers felt disturbed by the noise.
It was nearly inevitable that a crew, mistreated in such a miserable way was ready to mutiny and the communist baiters harvested what those morons sowed.
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
Misunderstood that post now I understand,I am defiantly a Jellicoist,over here there is a saying "do not speek ill of the dead"but with Beatty I will allow myself an exception,it was poetic justice that Beatty died as a result of a chill picked up at Jellicoes funeral.
elswick1542 2 years ago
@elswick
So this story is true!
Some guys really die too late.
But like you say: De mortuis nihil nisi bene!
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
not 100% certain its true.
In life nothing Beatty said he did was not either an exaggeration or just a complete lie,but that one is so good it has to be true.
elswick1542 2 years ago
0:59
Before the Battle of Jutland/Skarerrak all German capital ships were equipped with torpedo nets. After the Battle of J/S they were removed totally.
The crews had some losses during heavy weather because of this bullshit.
robinhood48 2 years ago
@robinhood48
Some pictures are hard to date,I think the most of the RN ships had the nets removed before J/S but artists often show the ships with them,IIR Derfflinger,s net fowled a prop during the battle,ot was it Von der tan.
elswick1542 2 years ago