Guess what people? The UK BANNED the evil tandoori from working in IT in UK today. We should do the same - then deport all who are left in USA. No more work visas for tandoori!
Times of India
"Indian chefs welcome but no IT workers, says UK panel
9 Sep 2008, 1709 hrs IST,PTI
LONDON: Indian chefs will be allowed to work in Britain's multi-million pound Indian restaurant industry but Indian IT workers are no longer required here, a key government committee on immigration here said on Tuesday."
Your comment should be directed to a different arena. The visa program that addresses technology workers is, I believe, the H1-B visa program, which has an entirely different set of issues. The H2-B seasonal guest worker program is the program many small family businesses rely on during peak times. Doing so allows these businesses to stay in the U.S. rather than closing or moving to Asia. Keeping the differences in these programs (H1B vs. H1A vs. H2B) in mind is not easy, but it is important
There are TWENTY THREE different guest worker visa programs in the U.S. flooding the U.S. with millions of cheap labor workers every year. These programs affect ALL Americans in all positions, from all walks of life.
i'm sure seafood businesses are SICK of paying high wages (ala Deadliest Catch), but that's what happens when demand is so high. the demand for crabs has skyrocketed after decades of prosperity. people want to go out to the local seafood "shack" and eat them. if it's too tough to stay in business, i suggest they try a different venture. no one's forcing them to stay in the seafood industry.
your depiction of the high wage (wages which correspond to the high likelyhood for injury or death: there is a reason whu they call that show the deadliest catch) situation in the king crab industry is not analagous to the traditional blue crab business. That said, in relation to wage increases, some industries, such as this food producing one, is inelastic in that there isn't a relationship of demand to labor wages as imports dictate the maximum price for the crab, and hence the wage rate.
because they're NOT needed, at least not in large numbers. unions of the 60's had TONS of black members. AFL-CIO and NAACP were some of organizations fighting the hardest against importing foreign workers back then. even today, there STILL shortage noawful "labor shortage", it's a myth that employer push to try and avoid paying a decent wage or giving benefits, the very things that have built the large middle class we have today.
The only part of the workforce that Immigrants affect negatively is low skilled uneducated US citizens, high school dropouts with very little or no education.
Of course you know more than the US government studies showing the shortfall of Jobs in the US and the gap that is closed with immigrants.
As far as your decent wage idea, Companies like Ford, or farms moving out of the USA, all because your decent wage and benefits shoved down their throat by ignorant unions have caused their margins to go in the red. You cannot expect to pay Joe Blow 25 dollars an hour to pick a tomato and expect to pay a DECENT wage for that tomato.
We all need eachother some way or another and instead of trying to kick all illegals out, which will NEVER happen, why don't you become more realistic and try to find a positive solution like the guest worker program this business owner is talking about....
What the government wants is for you to shift your attention from them to our immigration problem and turn us all against eachother.I agree that there IS an immigration problem but at the same time, I have never seen so much discrimination in my life. I feel like I'm living back in the 60's.
Who harvests the food you eat everyday? Don't tell me Americans do because I had never seen an American on a ladder picking an apple or any other fruit or vegetable for that matter.
Dont you all get it?! American's don't apply for these jobs, that's why they hire people who will do them. People who want nothing else but to earn a descent living and support their family just like you.
We try, and are legally bound, to hire Americans first. The problem is a lack of applicants. All of the seafood businesses we work with do have American workers. It is those domestic workers jobs who are in peril now that the H2B provisions have expired. If you want a seasonal job in the seafood business, PLEASE APPLY. We need the workers.
One consistent mistake that many who are anit-LEGAL guest workers is the assumption that there is actually a ready domestic labor force that wants this work. I have NEVER received a job applicatuion from anyone whose comments have stated that there are American's who want, but have been unable to get these seasonal jobs.
If you are interested in a seasonal job in the seafood business, or know people who are interested, PLEASE send them our way. Without either a 50x (or more) increase in domestic applications or some help from LEGAL guest workers, these businesses will close and you will be buying yet more of your food from SE Asia. I hope you like bleaching chemicals and other additives commonly found in the imported food. Its not like FDA will have your back. They inspect almost no imported seafood.
Have you ever heard of American workers like yourself? Look around, there many of "us" American workers that can do the job you want us to do. Stop complaining because you have to pay a little more....don't be a sweat shop, be an American family grown company that has been open for over 100 years. Be proud of that and stop hiring illegal immigrants!
The H2B program is a LEGAL guestworker program. We strongly oppose the hiring of illegal workers. The H2B program only allows guest workers to be hired if the local labor supply is exhausted. If you are one of the "many of "us" American workers that can do the job" feel free to contact us and work for us. Our first choice is a seasonal domestic workforce. The guest workers are only needed because we lack U.S. workers who want to apply.
Given the world economy, these food markets are inelastic to indefinite price inflation. You can close our boarders to imports (not realistic politically or economically) or look for mechanisms that allow businesses to stay in the U.S. The H2B program allows for legal guest workers for seasonal businesses where domestic labor can not be found. What will be the result of losing this legal guest worker program? U.S. companies will close and yet more of the food you buy will come from overseas
There are also problems we see with trade practices, food inspection, and many other issues, but we'll leave the details of this dialogue to the issue that is threatening the immediate closing of seasonal U.S. food and manufacturing businesses: the sunset of the provisions of the H2B legal guest worker program.
Be willing to pay a living wage and you will have all of the American workers you need! We do not need to import workers in this country. What we need is for companies likes yours to pay wages that people that live in this country can actually live on.
If the issues with imported foods could be solved, which means in part a serious examination of the decisions of the ITC, DFA and other federal agencies, your suggestion might just work, but given the realities of those situations, it means using legal seasonal workers for the seasonal push (given the lack of domestic labor availability) when nature provides for plentiful harvests. The alternative is to close up shop.
If the issues with imported foods could be solved, which means in part a serious examination of the decisions of the ITC, FDA and other federal agencies, your suggestion might just work, but given the realities of those situations, it means using legal seasonal workers for the seasonal push (given the lack of domestic labor availability) when nature provides for plentiful harvests. The alternative is to close up shop.
People don't know facts of issue, & get riled up by rabble rousers on talk radio & cable TV. Yes, mex workers are exploited by immoral/greedy employers & that has a neg effect on wages. Young Americans have a sense of self-entitlement, have had most things handed to them (by parents, not the gov't) & feel hard labor is beneath them. But, monetary & trade policy is what's really the culprit here. A weak $ & unfair foreign comp has put us at a disadvantage, competing w/folks who make a few $s/day.
FYI I have removed a few of the comments that appeared, IMHO, to be purely antagonistic without any substantive merit. There have been both anti liberal and anti conservative comments removed (although I freely admit that these labels make little sense in this discussion) that don't add to the debate in any way. Let's welcome diverse points of view, but leave the X hates Y and Y hates X comments to another forum. All immigration related issues however, no matter your point of view, are welcome
Thank you for the feedback, I understand your position a bit more. I find it truly amazing that the government is abolishing a legal program for seasonal workers when so many of the politicians are saying how dependent we are on migrant workers. But they want to make permanent immigration easier which will hurt all the permanent jobs we have. Even a immigrant would prefer a permanent job over a temporary one.
Who pays the workers medical? Who pays the workers added burden in education? Congress passed a law that aliens don't have to work as many quarters for SSI as Americans didn't they? Who pays for housing? Who pays for language lessons? If you want LEGAL SEASONAL workers it's Congress' job to SCREEN workers and allow them in if needed. CONGRESS isn't doing their job - vote out all R's and D's.
In regards to the truck driver in the video, I am willing to bet he belongs to a union if he is working for your company. Because it will not be long before he is replaced with a immigrant as well, especially after this bill is passed to allow migrant workers to freely pass into our nation's borders.
perhaps he's not part of a union, perhaps it's only his driver's license that is saving his job. How long will it be before we allow migrant workers to have CDL's? That's right around the corner.
One question: How long has your business relied on migrant workers to operate? I'm just guessing here but I would say probably the day after the NAFTA bill was passsed by Bill Clinton.
it has nothing to do with NAFTA. It is more aligned with the aging and retirement of the domestic workforce that has traditionally done this work. There are still a very small number in their 60's and 70's doing this work, and yes, they get their jobs back every year before the guest workers can apply. We value those domectic workers. In addition, that is the law.
How much do the workers get paid per hour? What's preventing the hiring of domestic workers? Is it the work conditions? Too little pay for too much work? Is it a lack of applicants or people needing work in your area? please explain.
typically guest workers in these businesses are making in excess of $10. It is a lack of domestic applicants that drives the need for guest workers. If a U.S. citizen applies, by law, they get the jobs first.
What if a domestic applicant applies after the guest worker is brought in for the season? Are you required by law to post the job positions a month prior to obtaining the guest workers?
Of course all of these workers get laid off after the crabbing season correct? That I can understand, it is more difficult finding temporary workers then it is finding employees who want a permanent job.
I really don't mind seasonal employees legally working in the United States. But I am against dissolving our borders with Mexico and Canada. I can only assume they are letting this program expire to cause more controversy over immigration to relax the laws more.
not if the employer likes low wages and more profits Which isn't hard to find in this country sadly. No Americans benefit from being invaded by a sexist racist country.
ahhh the slave laborers are now called "guest workers".. . How about instead of hiring illegal aliens, you abide by the United States Labor Laws and pay these workers a decent wage with benefits. In the mean time we will do what we can to stop this NAFTA bs from putting us all out of jobs. Instead of supporting free immigration, how about opposing NAFTA and the bills that are making it hard for businesses to compete with imports.
Again, the question at hand is LEGAL guest workers. No one I know uses or wants illegal workers. I have heard several say repeatedly "I would rather close my business than break the law and hire illegal workers."
yes I know that program is legal but it is still unethical. These workers are not covered by our Labor Laws. If your business condones this what is stopping other businesses from following suit? We may as well throw out all of the labor laws that are protecting Americans from unfair business practices.
Please explain how either the domestic or guest workers are treated "unethically" in this situation. FYI, while immigrant rights groups have opposed some guest worker programs (the H-1A program has had its problems) none, to my knowledge, oppose the H-2B program.
Why aren't businesses avocating for cuts in welfare that keep folks from working? R's and D's in Congress created the whole problem! We keep re-electing expecting different results. WHY????????????
Would YOU do that job for $10 per hour? Of course not. How much do YOU get paid? Lower YOUR wage and raise these wages and offer them to other Americans. Oh, but then you'd have to lower YOUR standard of living. Too bad. It's completely hypocritical (and typical American sellout attitude) to think that other people besides yourself should have to live on 3rd world wage. Stop selling out America.
I am alittle confused- come on to NY b/c we have plenty of immigrants here. The liberals even want to get them a hall so employers can pick them up and they don't have to wait on the street. I'm sure plenty of our citizens would be happy to see them be your states burden instead of ours. All they do is crap up our neighborhoods!
On the west coast, seafood processors are already having to send some whole crabs to china for processing. Is where we want all of our food processed? Given the loss of American jobs as well as the stories about contaminants in all sorts of products from Asia, doesn't keeping food production in the U.S. seem like a good idea? Limited use of legal guest workers is one path to keeping existing American businesses and jobs in the U.S.
Well then we need to have machinists and software writes to make one. We cant design a machine that CAN do things fast and way the hell more efficiently than human hands. Im gussing you knew that Mexicans were arguing against the tomato picker when it was designed in Cal decades ago, well if we listented to them, we wouldnt have as big tomato harvest would we? You can use humans for these jobs anymore becuase the costs ( to Americans as a whole, not you) are staggering.
I think biz owners & industry need to lobby hard to end preferred trade status w/China, NAfta & WTO. We should be putting tariffs & taxes on things that can be made here. Which countries are competitors of yours in crab market? Just curious. What is cost of living where you are? With Housing/Food/Fuel costs being what they are today, $10/hr just doesn't buy much. You can't support a family on that. Benefits? Also, how much to you take home each year vs your lowest paid employee?
no shit....so you're saying that this business has been there for what? 117 yrs...and if you dont get illegal immigrants to work for you for cheap labor then you have to close? good riddence....you're making a problem for all other americans aiding these ILLEGALs and you want us to feel sorry for you?
This company, and many others who use the H-2B seasonal worker program, use LEGAL guest workers. The problem is that the legal program is about to expire because congress failed, again, at its job this year. And no, they won't be hiring illegal workers if they can't get legal ones. They will just have to close shop, laying off office workers, truck drivers, and working watermen in the process -- all a loss of good traditional American jobs. None of these businesses want illegal workers.
I think what america needs to do if she wants to survive the next 15 years with these global economies, ie the EU and the euro....people need to get off their asses and stop being so lazy depending on the gvmt for everything, like those people from MI that quit after a few hours...THEY'RE truly destroying our country
I keep hearing about all these lazy welfare people sitting on their ass collecting $/etc. Where are they? Can you find some for me? And if you do, can you find one, just one that will agree with you that they'd rather be poor and on welfare than working a decent job with benefits? This whole idea is a myth to demonize poor, uneducated and/or disabled people. If there's so many, it should be an easy task.
Yes, there are costs to bring the guests workers here and to send them back home. Similarly, there were offers to bus American workers in from a city in MD that has its share of unemployment. After running ads, hiring a bus to drive them the total of 4 hrs a day, only one worker applied. He quit in 2 days. If no American wants the jobs, it has been legal to invite legal guest workers to do the work. As of Oct 1 the legal path for these guest workers to come to the U.S. will expire.
There are not really enough details to determine the right and wrong of this situation. What was the total situation. When advertising for the jobs, does it really get exposed. What types of work. What type of coverage, protection, insurance, for the hazards etc.
I have heard that many of the guest worker programs actually exploit the workers more. Tough situation
Yes, there have been reports of abuse in the H-1A program. Like so many of our immigration problems, be it legal or illegal workers, this shows a lack of enforcement by our immigration office. It seems more politically popular to build fences than to actually keep out illegals and enforce legal programs. What is really needed is enforcement at the workplace. BTW, the employers using the H-1B program (it is non agricultural) have not been characterized as exploiting workers.
"there are costs" as in over a trillion doallars in american debt, which we will have to pay for in taxes, which ruins stocks and the overall american economy. but lets just let them in anyway, afterall if the right thing to do, right?
you do know that theres no way that we are going to be able to pay that off....... why should peoples business be lost because our goverment cant stop wasting more money than it has to spend
pay what off? thinkfloyd was talking about the EXTRA trillions of dollars that will be spent on illegals coming into America if we dont do anything about them, not what the debt is already thanks to those "awesome" democrats spending $ like its nothing
yea. i don't think he got it. i was saying how they would live off of the country's welfare, which comes out of our pockets, and would send our country spiraling into nation debt, so basicly the US would be no better than Mexico is right now.
I thought we invented a crazy little thing called MACHINES. U aint gon n a use latinos anymore, get used to it and change. We arent gonna drag american down just to satisfy goddamn employers
Odd that you are fine with machines that displace American labor but not legal guest workers. That said, yes, technology does allow some of the work that was once done by hand to be done with machines, but thus far the technology only works with larger females, and nature only creates those in late in the fall. That means that about 1/2 of the year the work is still only done by hand. Again, they'd prefer domestic workers to do it, but there is a shortage of domestic labor to do that work.
that's where you're wrong, to an extent. there is not a shortage of PEOPLE to work, just people that WANT to work in the US. Because our jobs are being paid less and less because of TOO MANY people trying to work here (illegals), it's easier for them they think to sit at home and get welfare from the gvmt. Were on our way fast to becoming a 3rd world country, and you're aiding it
Why I said the costs are crazy is because illegals cost us more than they save, simply put. While the employers get off the hook and actually SAVE money hiring these guys, we gotta pay for thier children, education, protection, and about a billion other things. What do we get in return?>????? THEM SENDING THE MONEY BACK TO OLD MEXICO!!!
What we get in return is a labor force that allows existing American jobs to stay in the U.S. rather that losing that business entirely. As far as I have seen personally, the seasonal H-2B workers leave their families in their home country, come to the U.S. to work, and then go home. You are only eligible to apply as a returning worker in the H-2B program for the next season if you do go home to your home country each year.
While here legal guest workers in the H-2B program do pay taxes (social security, etc.) but are ineligible to receive benefits from those funds paid. People paying into social security but not taking money out sure beats the business closing and no one, guest worker or domestic worker, contributing to the system.
actually, you're both wrong. stats show immigrants pay in more than they receive in benefits. they pay sales taxes, property taxes and even income taxes which the ones who use fake SS#s can't apply for refunds, etc. They are a net plus to our economy, etc. not to mention keeping prices low. the problem lies with unfair/unbalanced trade where Mr. Nuckols is having to compete with foreign cos where there's no wage std, enviro std, safety std, inspection, health std, etc etc.
sounds to me like you might just need to pay more and offer benefits, if you don't already. This might mean cutting back other places. I don't know. Too bad you can't open a processing plant in GA and ship there here 'cause $10/hr is a good wage here. The chicken plant was using illegals saying they couldn't find americans. they got busted. when they put an add up for $8/hr, they had a line around the plant of people wanting to apply. but, cost of living is very low.
Ross Perot was right about the giant sucking sound of jobs and money leaving America. NO ILLEGALS, NO GUEST WORKERS and NO CHEAP IMPORTS from SLAVE LABOR factories in China and SE Asia.
There are many Americans who would gladly work for a decent wage.. I have no sympathy for business owners looking for cheap labor from out of the country.
If you know of specific people who would like to work for about 5 months a year (sorry guys-year round isn't possible unless you can convince mother nature to make crabs or oysters mature year-round) have them ask for a job. I know businesses in Cambridge, MD, Houma, LA and additional small towns in the south that are craving job applicants! People who only "in theory" want these jobs doesn't help. We need real people to apply and show up.
1. Sue your competitors for unfair competition if you can prove they hire illegal aliens.
2. Pay a higher wage for non-"guests"; put a sticker on the box "not made by slave labor as some Chinese products are and does not contain anti-freeze".
3. Sell your land to build condos on, as the crab meat production industry moves offshore where the cheap labor lives, rather than importing a foreign serf class.
re: antifreeze - that's funny. Haven't seen that yet, but there are indeed bleaching and other chemicals that are present in foreign meat.
re: sell your land: after that where do the American's who work in these businesses work? Small towns don't usually have a local microsoft office hading out high paying jobs. The real world doesn't work that way. Usually when these sorts of businesses go under, workers, particularly older American workers, can't get replacement jobs.
Get the companies to stop hiring cheap help so they can just get more profits in their pockets,,,,pay a livable wage to all and youll see how fast the cheap help disappears
I agree with your comment in general, but with food production or manufacturing, if the wages get but so high, certain types of businesses with inelastic markets move overseas or just close alltogether. Other businesses could just pay higher and higher wages and yes, they should.
The H2B program is for business that can not find domestic workers. If any Americans want these jobs, by law, they get them first. The alternative is to import crabmeat from Asia. The choice is to continue to produce our own food or give up those domestic jobs and swap a family owned business that supports families in the US and Mexico for one person who runs an importing business that brings in food to the U.S. that theoretically, but not in practice, follows the same safety standards.
typically they are in the range of $10/hr (certainly above min. wage) and yes, they must pay taxes. Its the same deal whether you are a US Citizen or a legal guest worker.
Guess what people? The UK BANNED the evil tandoori from working in IT in UK today. We should do the same - then deport all who are left in USA. No more work visas for tandoori!
Times of India
"Indian chefs welcome but no IT workers, says UK panel
9 Sep 2008, 1709 hrs IST,PTI
LONDON: Indian chefs will be allowed to work in Britain's multi-million pound Indian restaurant industry but Indian IT workers are no longer required here, a key government committee on immigration here said on Tuesday."
chinasucksforever 3 years ago
Your comment should be directed to a different arena. The visa program that addresses technology workers is, I believe, the H1-B visa program, which has an entirely different set of issues. The H2-B seasonal guest worker program is the program many small family businesses rely on during peak times. Doing so allows these businesses to stay in the U.S. rather than closing or moving to Asia. Keeping the differences in these programs (H1B vs. H1A vs. H2B) in mind is not easy, but it is important
WillNuckols 3 years ago
There are TWENTY THREE different guest worker visa programs in the U.S. flooding the U.S. with millions of cheap labor workers every year. These programs affect ALL Americans in all positions, from all walks of life.
chinasucksforever 3 years ago
i'm sure seafood businesses are SICK of paying high wages (ala Deadliest Catch), but that's what happens when demand is so high. the demand for crabs has skyrocketed after decades of prosperity. people want to go out to the local seafood "shack" and eat them. if it's too tough to stay in business, i suggest they try a different venture. no one's forcing them to stay in the seafood industry.
centerrightpunk 3 years ago
your depiction of the high wage (wages which correspond to the high likelyhood for injury or death: there is a reason whu they call that show the deadliest catch) situation in the king crab industry is not analagous to the traditional blue crab business. That said, in relation to wage increases, some industries, such as this food producing one, is inelastic in that there isn't a relationship of demand to labor wages as imports dictate the maximum price for the crab, and hence the wage rate.
WillNuckols 3 years ago
Hello : i am interested in helping you place workers
dailyfranks 3 years ago
I think this issue shows how racist the USA is. Fighting against a LEGAL guest worker program.
mjoey77 4 years ago
because they're NOT needed, at least not in large numbers. unions of the 60's had TONS of black members. AFL-CIO and NAACP were some of organizations fighting the hardest against importing foreign workers back then. even today, there STILL shortage noawful "labor shortage", it's a myth that employer push to try and avoid paying a decent wage or giving benefits, the very things that have built the large middle class we have today.
centerrightpunk 3 years ago
The only part of the workforce that Immigrants affect negatively is low skilled uneducated US citizens, high school dropouts with very little or no education.
mjoey77 3 years ago
Of course you know more than the US government studies showing the shortfall of Jobs in the US and the gap that is closed with immigrants.
As far as your decent wage idea, Companies like Ford, or farms moving out of the USA, all because your decent wage and benefits shoved down their throat by ignorant unions have caused their margins to go in the red. You cannot expect to pay Joe Blow 25 dollars an hour to pick a tomato and expect to pay a DECENT wage for that tomato.
mjoey77 3 years ago
We all need eachother some way or another and instead of trying to kick all illegals out, which will NEVER happen, why don't you become more realistic and try to find a positive solution like the guest worker program this business owner is talking about....
iamsammers 4 years ago
What the government wants is for you to shift your attention from them to our immigration problem and turn us all against eachother.I agree that there IS an immigration problem but at the same time, I have never seen so much discrimination in my life. I feel like I'm living back in the 60's.
iamsammers 4 years ago
Who harvests the food you eat everyday? Don't tell me Americans do because I had never seen an American on a ladder picking an apple or any other fruit or vegetable for that matter.
iamsammers 4 years ago
Dont you all get it?! American's don't apply for these jobs, that's why they hire people who will do them. People who want nothing else but to earn a descent living and support their family just like you.
iamsammers 4 years ago
hire americans that way you have a job and so do we the american citizens who actually have a right to them.
xosortasweet16xo 4 years ago
We try, and are legally bound, to hire Americans first. The problem is a lack of applicants. All of the seafood businesses we work with do have American workers. It is those domestic workers jobs who are in peril now that the H2B provisions have expired. If you want a seasonal job in the seafood business, PLEASE APPLY. We need the workers.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
One consistent mistake that many who are anit-LEGAL guest workers is the assumption that there is actually a ready domestic labor force that wants this work. I have NEVER received a job applicatuion from anyone whose comments have stated that there are American's who want, but have been unable to get these seasonal jobs.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
If you are interested in a seasonal job in the seafood business, or know people who are interested, PLEASE send them our way. Without either a 50x (or more) increase in domestic applications or some help from LEGAL guest workers, these businesses will close and you will be buying yet more of your food from SE Asia. I hope you like bleaching chemicals and other additives commonly found in the imported food. Its not like FDA will have your back. They inspect almost no imported seafood.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Have you ever heard of American workers like yourself? Look around, there many of "us" American workers that can do the job you want us to do. Stop complaining because you have to pay a little more....don't be a sweat shop, be an American family grown company that has been open for over 100 years. Be proud of that and stop hiring illegal immigrants!
2boyziluv 4 years ago
The H2B program is a LEGAL guestworker program. We strongly oppose the hiring of illegal workers. The H2B program only allows guest workers to be hired if the local labor supply is exhausted. If you are one of the "many of "us" American workers that can do the job" feel free to contact us and work for us. Our first choice is a seasonal domestic workforce. The guest workers are only needed because we lack U.S. workers who want to apply.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
so what are these issues? is it that you can't compete with those overseas? than you should be demanding changes to trade law, not immigration law.
centerrightpunk 4 years ago
Given the world economy, these food markets are inelastic to indefinite price inflation. You can close our boarders to imports (not realistic politically or economically) or look for mechanisms that allow businesses to stay in the U.S. The H2B program allows for legal guest workers for seasonal businesses where domestic labor can not be found. What will be the result of losing this legal guest worker program? U.S. companies will close and yet more of the food you buy will come from overseas
WillNuckols 4 years ago
There are also problems we see with trade practices, food inspection, and many other issues, but we'll leave the details of this dialogue to the issue that is threatening the immediate closing of seasonal U.S. food and manufacturing businesses: the sunset of the provisions of the H2B legal guest worker program.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Be willing to pay a living wage and you will have all of the American workers you need! We do not need to import workers in this country. What we need is for companies likes yours to pay wages that people that live in this country can actually live on.
PolackLolly 4 years ago
If the issues with imported foods could be solved, which means in part a serious examination of the decisions of the ITC, DFA and other federal agencies, your suggestion might just work, but given the realities of those situations, it means using legal seasonal workers for the seasonal push (given the lack of domestic labor availability) when nature provides for plentiful harvests. The alternative is to close up shop.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
If the issues with imported foods could be solved, which means in part a serious examination of the decisions of the ITC, FDA and other federal agencies, your suggestion might just work, but given the realities of those situations, it means using legal seasonal workers for the seasonal push (given the lack of domestic labor availability) when nature provides for plentiful harvests. The alternative is to close up shop.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
So what is the pay that you offer employees?
jmegill 4 years ago
People don't know facts of issue, & get riled up by rabble rousers on talk radio & cable TV. Yes, mex workers are exploited by immoral/greedy employers & that has a neg effect on wages. Young Americans have a sense of self-entitlement, have had most things handed to them (by parents, not the gov't) & feel hard labor is beneath them. But, monetary & trade policy is what's really the culprit here. A weak $ & unfair foreign comp has put us at a disadvantage, competing w/folks who make a few $s/day.
FattKidd 4 years ago
FattKidd ...what your are saying is BS bro...
ThatsWhatzUp 4 years ago
how so?
FattKidd 4 years ago
FYI I have removed a few of the comments that appeared, IMHO, to be purely antagonistic without any substantive merit. There have been both anti liberal and anti conservative comments removed (although I freely admit that these labels make little sense in this discussion) that don't add to the debate in any way. Let's welcome diverse points of view, but leave the X hates Y and Y hates X comments to another forum. All immigration related issues however, no matter your point of view, are welcome
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Welcome to globalization.
rpaul5150 4 years ago
Thank you for the feedback, I understand your position a bit more. I find it truly amazing that the government is abolishing a legal program for seasonal workers when so many of the politicians are saying how dependent we are on migrant workers. But they want to make permanent immigration easier which will hurt all the permanent jobs we have. Even a immigrant would prefer a permanent job over a temporary one.
bt071971 4 years ago
Who pays the workers medical? Who pays the workers added burden in education? Congress passed a law that aliens don't have to work as many quarters for SSI as Americans didn't they? Who pays for housing? Who pays for language lessons? If you want LEGAL SEASONAL workers it's Congress' job to SCREEN workers and allow them in if needed. CONGRESS isn't doing their job - vote out all R's and D's.
concerned00citizen 4 years ago
you forgot to mention our overcrowded prison system and the victims of their crimes.
oldhacks 4 years ago
In regards to the truck driver in the video, I am willing to bet he belongs to a union if he is working for your company. Because it will not be long before he is replaced with a immigrant as well, especially after this bill is passed to allow migrant workers to freely pass into our nation's borders.
bt071971 4 years ago
perhaps he's not part of a union, perhaps it's only his driver's license that is saving his job. How long will it be before we allow migrant workers to have CDL's? That's right around the corner.
bt071971 4 years ago
One question: How long has your business relied on migrant workers to operate? I'm just guessing here but I would say probably the day after the NAFTA bill was passsed by Bill Clinton.
bt071971 4 years ago
it has nothing to do with NAFTA. It is more aligned with the aging and retirement of the domestic workforce that has traditionally done this work. There are still a very small number in their 60's and 70's doing this work, and yes, they get their jobs back every year before the guest workers can apply. We value those domectic workers. In addition, that is the law.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
How much do the workers get paid per hour? What's preventing the hiring of domestic workers? Is it the work conditions? Too little pay for too much work? Is it a lack of applicants or people needing work in your area? please explain.
bt071971 4 years ago
typically guest workers in these businesses are making in excess of $10. It is a lack of domestic applicants that drives the need for guest workers. If a U.S. citizen applies, by law, they get the jobs first.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
What if a domestic applicant applies after the guest worker is brought in for the season? Are you required by law to post the job positions a month prior to obtaining the guest workers?
bt071971 4 years ago
Of course all of these workers get laid off after the crabbing season correct? That I can understand, it is more difficult finding temporary workers then it is finding employees who want a permanent job.
bt071971 4 years ago
I really don't mind seasonal employees legally working in the United States. But I am against dissolving our borders with Mexico and Canada. I can only assume they are letting this program expire to cause more controversy over immigration to relax the laws more.
bt071971 4 years ago
not if the employer likes low wages and more profits Which isn't hard to find in this country sadly. No Americans benefit from being invaded by a sexist racist country.
oldhacks 4 years ago
ahhh the slave laborers are now called "guest workers".. . How about instead of hiring illegal aliens, you abide by the United States Labor Laws and pay these workers a decent wage with benefits. In the mean time we will do what we can to stop this NAFTA bs from putting us all out of jobs. Instead of supporting free immigration, how about opposing NAFTA and the bills that are making it hard for businesses to compete with imports.
bt071971 4 years ago
Again, the question at hand is LEGAL guest workers. No one I know uses or wants illegal workers. I have heard several say repeatedly "I would rather close my business than break the law and hire illegal workers."
WillNuckols 4 years ago
yes I know that program is legal but it is still unethical. These workers are not covered by our Labor Laws. If your business condones this what is stopping other businesses from following suit? We may as well throw out all of the labor laws that are protecting Americans from unfair business practices.
bt071971 4 years ago
Please explain how either the domestic or guest workers are treated "unethically" in this situation. FYI, while immigrant rights groups have opposed some guest worker programs (the H-1A program has had its problems) none, to my knowledge, oppose the H-2B program.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Guest worker - you are right is sounds so nice.
Why aren't businesses avocating for cuts in welfare that keep folks from working? R's and D's in Congress created the whole problem! We keep re-electing expecting different results. WHY????????????
concerned00citizen 4 years ago
lol, I bet you're the same bunch who would call people "isolationists".
rpaul5150 4 years ago
Would YOU do that job for $10 per hour? Of course not. How much do YOU get paid? Lower YOUR wage and raise these wages and offer them to other Americans. Oh, but then you'd have to lower YOUR standard of living. Too bad. It's completely hypocritical (and typical American sellout attitude) to think that other people besides yourself should have to live on 3rd world wage. Stop selling out America.
rpaul5150 4 years ago
I am alittle confused- come on to NY b/c we have plenty of immigrants here. The liberals even want to get them a hall so employers can pick them up and they don't have to wait on the street. I'm sure plenty of our citizens would be happy to see them be your states burden instead of ours. All they do is crap up our neighborhoods!
MomOLila 4 years ago
On the west coast, seafood processors are already having to send some whole crabs to china for processing. Is where we want all of our food processed? Given the loss of American jobs as well as the stories about contaminants in all sorts of products from Asia, doesn't keeping food production in the U.S. seem like a good idea? Limited use of legal guest workers is one path to keeping existing American businesses and jobs in the U.S.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Well then we need to have machinists and software writes to make one. We cant design a machine that CAN do things fast and way the hell more efficiently than human hands. Im gussing you knew that Mexicans were arguing against the tomato picker when it was designed in Cal decades ago, well if we listented to them, we wouldnt have as big tomato harvest would we? You can use humans for these jobs anymore becuase the costs ( to Americans as a whole, not you) are staggering.
MSVLian 4 years ago
Whoops, I mispoke, i mean " we CAN design.....
MSVLian 4 years ago
I think biz owners & industry need to lobby hard to end preferred trade status w/China, NAfta & WTO. We should be putting tariffs & taxes on things that can be made here. Which countries are competitors of yours in crab market? Just curious. What is cost of living where you are? With Housing/Food/Fuel costs being what they are today, $10/hr just doesn't buy much. You can't support a family on that. Benefits? Also, how much to you take home each year vs your lowest paid employee?
FattKidd 4 years ago
no shit....so you're saying that this business has been there for what? 117 yrs...and if you dont get illegal immigrants to work for you for cheap labor then you have to close? good riddence....you're making a problem for all other americans aiding these ILLEGALs and you want us to feel sorry for you?
alwaysending 4 years ago
This company, and many others who use the H-2B seasonal worker program, use LEGAL guest workers. The problem is that the legal program is about to expire because congress failed, again, at its job this year. And no, they won't be hiring illegal workers if they can't get legal ones. They will just have to close shop, laying off office workers, truck drivers, and working watermen in the process -- all a loss of good traditional American jobs. None of these businesses want illegal workers.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
I think what america needs to do if she wants to survive the next 15 years with these global economies, ie the EU and the euro....people need to get off their asses and stop being so lazy depending on the gvmt for everything, like those people from MI that quit after a few hours...THEY'RE truly destroying our country
alwaysending 4 years ago
I keep hearing about all these lazy welfare people sitting on their ass collecting $/etc. Where are they? Can you find some for me? And if you do, can you find one, just one that will agree with you that they'd rather be poor and on welfare than working a decent job with benefits? This whole idea is a myth to demonize poor, uneducated and/or disabled people. If there's so many, it should be an easy task.
FattKidd 4 years ago
not god damn thing.. lose your business.. all of a sudden thats all you rely on?? go under...
hewlee 4 years ago
$20.00 minimum wage!!!
jgtmediainc 4 years ago
I would really like to know how can the illegal immigrant VOTE yes I live in AZ and they are signing them up to Vote What is this country coming to
snookie49 4 years ago
they can't vote. even legal aliens can't vote. another myth.
FattKidd 4 years ago
With the cost to bring guest workers' or illegals' into the country, couldn't the employers pay National Citizens enough? I want to know!!!
SparklestheClown 4 years ago
Yes, there are costs to bring the guests workers here and to send them back home. Similarly, there were offers to bus American workers in from a city in MD that has its share of unemployment. After running ads, hiring a bus to drive them the total of 4 hrs a day, only one worker applied. He quit in 2 days. If no American wants the jobs, it has been legal to invite legal guest workers to do the work. As of Oct 1 the legal path for these guest workers to come to the U.S. will expire.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
There are not really enough details to determine the right and wrong of this situation. What was the total situation. When advertising for the jobs, does it really get exposed. What types of work. What type of coverage, protection, insurance, for the hazards etc.
I have heard that many of the guest worker programs actually exploit the workers more. Tough situation
SparklestheClown 4 years ago
Yes, there have been reports of abuse in the H-1A program. Like so many of our immigration problems, be it legal or illegal workers, this shows a lack of enforcement by our immigration office. It seems more politically popular to build fences than to actually keep out illegals and enforce legal programs. What is really needed is enforcement at the workplace. BTW, the employers using the H-1B program (it is non agricultural) have not been characterized as exploiting workers.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
I had heard that Southern Law was exposing alot of guest worker programs where there was abuse. If this is not one of them, I am glad to hear that.
SparklestheClown 4 years ago
"there are costs" as in over a trillion doallars in american debt, which we will have to pay for in taxes, which ruins stocks and the overall american economy. but lets just let them in anyway, afterall if the right thing to do, right?
thinkfloyd1973 4 years ago
you do know that theres no way that we are going to be able to pay that off....... why should peoples business be lost because our goverment cant stop wasting more money than it has to spend
dgreatpeter 4 years ago
pay what off? thinkfloyd was talking about the EXTRA trillions of dollars that will be spent on illegals coming into America if we dont do anything about them, not what the debt is already thanks to those "awesome" democrats spending $ like its nothing
alwaysending 4 years ago
yea. i don't think he got it. i was saying how they would live off of the country's welfare, which comes out of our pockets, and would send our country spiraling into nation debt, so basicly the US would be no better than Mexico is right now.
thinkfloyd1973 4 years ago
I thought we invented a crazy little thing called MACHINES. U aint gon n a use latinos anymore, get used to it and change. We arent gonna drag american down just to satisfy goddamn employers
Austinjoke 4 years ago
Odd that you are fine with machines that displace American labor but not legal guest workers. That said, yes, technology does allow some of the work that was once done by hand to be done with machines, but thus far the technology only works with larger females, and nature only creates those in late in the fall. That means that about 1/2 of the year the work is still only done by hand. Again, they'd prefer domestic workers to do it, but there is a shortage of domestic labor to do that work.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
that's where you're wrong, to an extent. there is not a shortage of PEOPLE to work, just people that WANT to work in the US. Because our jobs are being paid less and less because of TOO MANY people trying to work here (illegals), it's easier for them they think to sit at home and get welfare from the gvmt. Were on our way fast to becoming a 3rd world country, and you're aiding it
alwaysending 4 years ago
Why I said the costs are crazy is because illegals cost us more than they save, simply put. While the employers get off the hook and actually SAVE money hiring these guys, we gotta pay for thier children, education, protection, and about a billion other things. What do we get in return?>????? THEM SENDING THE MONEY BACK TO OLD MEXICO!!!
MSVLian 4 years ago
What we get in return is a labor force that allows existing American jobs to stay in the U.S. rather that losing that business entirely. As far as I have seen personally, the seasonal H-2B workers leave their families in their home country, come to the U.S. to work, and then go home. You are only eligible to apply as a returning worker in the H-2B program for the next season if you do go home to your home country each year.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
While here legal guest workers in the H-2B program do pay taxes (social security, etc.) but are ineligible to receive benefits from those funds paid. People paying into social security but not taking money out sure beats the business closing and no one, guest worker or domestic worker, contributing to the system.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
actually, you're both wrong. stats show immigrants pay in more than they receive in benefits. they pay sales taxes, property taxes and even income taxes which the ones who use fake SS#s can't apply for refunds, etc. They are a net plus to our economy, etc. not to mention keeping prices low. the problem lies with unfair/unbalanced trade where Mr. Nuckols is having to compete with foreign cos where there's no wage std, enviro std, safety std, inspection, health std, etc etc.
FattKidd 4 years ago
sounds to me like you might just need to pay more and offer benefits, if you don't already. This might mean cutting back other places. I don't know. Too bad you can't open a processing plant in GA and ship there here 'cause $10/hr is a good wage here. The chicken plant was using illegals saying they couldn't find americans. they got busted. when they put an add up for $8/hr, they had a line around the plant of people wanting to apply. but, cost of living is very low.
FattKidd 4 years ago
Ross Perot was right about the giant sucking sound of jobs and money leaving America. NO ILLEGALS, NO GUEST WORKERS and NO CHEAP IMPORTS from SLAVE LABOR factories in China and SE Asia.
exenrontexas 4 years ago
tomorrow, in Montebello Quebec, Cheney/Bush/Lobbyists draw up the solution. "North American Community", "Security and Prosperity Partnership"
Make the illegals, legal. Most Americans will end up working for minimum wage. Adios
lighthammar 4 years ago
Fix the problem of those ceo's taking 90 percent of the profit and give it to the workers,,,they do the work
bettyat 4 years ago
Why is it that wages are so bad that their business depends on that cheap labor? Fix the source of the problem, don't remedy it.
battleboxnet 4 years ago
There are many Americans who would gladly work for a decent wage.. I have no sympathy for business owners looking for cheap labor from out of the country.
downtown1957 4 years ago
If you know of specific people who would like to work for about 5 months a year (sorry guys-year round isn't possible unless you can convince mother nature to make crabs or oysters mature year-round) have them ask for a job. I know businesses in Cambridge, MD, Houma, LA and additional small towns in the south that are craving job applicants! People who only "in theory" want these jobs doesn't help. We need real people to apply and show up.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Money-making tips:
1. Sue your competitors for unfair competition if you can prove they hire illegal aliens.
2. Pay a higher wage for non-"guests"; put a sticker on the box "not made by slave labor as some Chinese products are and does not contain anti-freeze".
3. Sell your land to build condos on, as the crab meat production industry moves offshore where the cheap labor lives, rather than importing a foreign serf class.
NoMoreBlatherDotCom 4 years ago
re: antifreeze - that's funny. Haven't seen that yet, but there are indeed bleaching and other chemicals that are present in foreign meat.
re: sell your land: after that where do the American's who work in these businesses work? Small towns don't usually have a local microsoft office hading out high paying jobs. The real world doesn't work that way. Usually when these sorts of businesses go under, workers, particularly older American workers, can't get replacement jobs.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Get the companies to stop hiring cheap help so they can just get more profits in their pockets,,,,pay a livable wage to all and youll see how fast the cheap help disappears
bettyat 4 years ago
I agree with your comment in general, but with food production or manufacturing, if the wages get but so high, certain types of businesses with inelastic markets move overseas or just close alltogether. Other businesses could just pay higher and higher wages and yes, they should.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
guess what?,if you cant run a buisness legally its ok to run it illeagally?....guess i can start sellin meth then right?...hell i need the money
jrfingo 4 years ago
A lot of people don't get it. This is a huge issue today. Thanks for putting the word out on YouTube.
IKIRU2 4 years ago
Why not do the jobs yourself or hire American Citizens to do the jobs you require?
DirtyCherokee 4 years ago
The H2B program is for business that can not find domestic workers. If any Americans want these jobs, by law, they get them first. The alternative is to import crabmeat from Asia. The choice is to continue to produce our own food or give up those domestic jobs and swap a family owned business that supports families in the US and Mexico for one person who runs an importing business that brings in food to the U.S. that theoretically, but not in practice, follows the same safety standards.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
Do you pay minimum wage or higher to the foreign workers and do the workers pay taxes or do they get preferential treatment?
What is your take on JobDestruction. info?
DirtyCherokee 4 years ago
typically they are in the range of $10/hr (certainly above min. wage) and yes, they must pay taxes. Its the same deal whether you are a US Citizen or a legal guest worker.
WillNuckols 4 years ago
maybe the gov't should increase the tariff on the inport not sumit to terriost
Iced15 4 years ago