Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (Romans 9:13-16 NASB) These
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
I believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins past, present and future for everyone on the planet past, present and future.. and whosoever believes on, have faith and trust in Him for their ETERNAL SALVATION, shall not perish but, have everlasting life. The GIFT was freely offered and can be accepted or rejected.
I believe Jesus did it all and we are in the position of receiving it. I believe Christ's righteousness is imputed onto us at the time we come to Him by faith.
@preacherman777 Thats it! I'm a born-again Christian. Frankly, I'd heard the terms 'Arminian/Calvinist' years ago.. but, never did any investigation as to what those really were until a year or so, ago.
I believe God gives us free will. God has His Will but, His love doesn't allow His Will to dominate or be forceful. I also believe that, while we are lost and hopeless, dead in our sin.. in need of salvation and a Savior, we are able to come to God, as He is always standing at the door knocking.
@NB3K Here's some problems with your Scriptural support, brother. Just trying to help you out. Matt. 26:28 merely states that Christ's atoning work on the cross was meant for a large number of people, but no conclusions can be drawn from this passage alone about its quantification (all or some). Also if Matt. 15:24 refers to the elect, then it also teaches that the elect only includes Jews. Jesus was simply stating that His ministry while on earth was primarily for the Jews.
People Let's follow Our Lord Jesus Christ. Not some old pious men who wanted to add or minus to God's word. Jesus is Lord and we ought to follow Him to the end.
I am of Paul? ....I am of Apollos? I have a book from the 1950s that has historic places in America.The stunning thing about it were the multiple churches in the historic east coast who made statues of their founding preachers and placed them in their sanctuaries.I was redeemed by receiving the free gift of God...therefore I am of Christ.God bless all who love and follow the Son .....
THERE ARE TOO MUCH CALVIN, WESLEY ARMINIUS , PAUL, APOLLOS , AND FEW JESUS!!! REFORMED BELIEVE THAT WE ARE PREDESTINED TO BE SAVED , BUT BEFORE , WE NEED TO BECOME CALVINIST HEHEH TOTAL JOKE!
Right here is John Calvin commenting on Romans 1:16 this is an excert. It clearly shows that you do not know calvin
At the same time, as he works not effectually in all, but only where the Spirit, the inward Teacher, illuminates the heart, he subjoins, To every one who believeth. The gospel is indeed offered to all for their salvation, but the power of it appears not everywhere: and that it is the savor of death to the ungodly, does not proceed from what it is, but from their own wickedness.
@PBLOVSH An Arminian denies the Aboslute Sovereingty of an Omnipotent God. They do this by worshipping a humanistic concept of "freewill" They believe that mans will must coperate with God's will "synergism" in the act of regeneration. A Calvinist says no. In the act of regeneration it is Monergistic in the sense that humans are dead in their sins it is only God who can save man. NOT OF WORKS but on God who has mercy on whom he pleases to. Look at the state of the Church it's Arminian.
@NB3K well if Calvinism is completely correct, then there isn't really any doubt that all the Calvinists in world won't have any trouble turning the Church around is there?
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
I applaud your efforts, but I don't think unity is going to happen. It is a noble task.
I believe instead of a constant debate(s) between the two, both sides should move on to other opponents. I think both sides should consider letting the other side alone, and treat each other as Christians and focus on other pressing issues.
@preacherman777 Yes but Wesley put works before Sovereign Grace. What I call the gospel, you call it "calvinism." But the true of the matter is, John Calvin teaches what the Bible teaches. You ought to read his commentaries. You ought to also read John Owen. Our country's Christians belief's during the revolutionary war leaned on calvinistic doctrines.
@NB3K Wesley did not put works before grace. To suggest that he did is to totally midunderstand his beliefs. He simply believed in conditional security, which rested upon fruitful faith, not works. This is the same test that the Calvinist would apply to know if one was were truly in the faith. I've read many commentaries by Calvinists and non of them speak truth to me. I base my belief on the Word of God and not on commentaries, therefore, I must reject Calvinism.
@preacherman777 Yeah but you are doing the same thing by standing on Arminian Theology. If you are going to stand on the Word of God, than without Wesley or Calvin what does Paul say in Romans 9?
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
@preacherman777 I also said that you should read John Calvin's commentary on Romans. I did not say read what a "calvinist" says. If you are going to reject a teachers teaching you should know what Calvin actually tought.
@NB3K I reject Calvinism as we have come to know it today. I realize that what we know today does not entirely reflect John Calvin's own views, but it's not his views that are in question when judging the theology that uses his name. Heck, it's not even really his theology as it has it's roots with Augustine, but the theology is what must be judged and I do judge it to be unbiblical. I'm not calling it heresy as some do, but I would equate it with a poor theology, much as I do Catholicism.
@preacherman777 There is a Biblical basis in the doctrines of grace "TULIP". Hell all one has to do is read the Prophets in the old testament. Also remember it is Jacob Arminus that also said that John Calvin's commentaries are the best one can get. So that in a sense should say something. Read AW PINK and the Soveriegnty of God.
@preacherman777 You have no idea of what you are talking about. Before there was Calvinism it was commonly refered to as the Gospel. Until that heretic Arminius step on the scene and caused a divison in the church.
@preacherman777 Yeah but wesley does not say jack about this verse.
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
This verse here locks my theological construct and logic in concrete,
@preacherman777 amen. Howell Harris, who was Calvinist, concurs. Rumors floated around that Wesley did not preach justification by faith alone, and Harris himself was stirred up about it (saying some of the same things that are said against Wesley today). When Harris did hear him first hand, he affirmed Wesley did indeed preach justification by faith alone, and further, Harris testified that Wesley had the evidence of God's blessing with his preaching in discernable power of the Holy Ghost.
Reformed Theology is replacement theology. The deceivers hated the jews they wanted them gone. Don't forget Yeshua was a Jew. Calvinism is anti semetic. Salvation is of the Jews. Not Gentiles. The Gentiles were grafted into Abraham's branch because of God's grace. T.U.L.I.P is sick.
Is'nt it interesting . . . that Jesus only used the word grace one time in scripture and it was not used to define the salvation of men. Jesus came . . . all the way from heaven to earth to teach men how to obtain eternal life and the main source of human thinking on salvation is based on a word that Jesus did not use when he taught men about eternal life.
The word grace (found only four times) in the four gospels and it is always used to describe an attribute of God.
It makes no difference if something in the Word of God is spoken by Moses, Paul, Simon-Peter or Jesus Himself... all scripture is God breathed and carries the same authority!
@enotstehw Yes but the word Grace is refered to 125 times in the NT and 7 times in the OT. Read Acts and the epistles of Paul to the Churches and Timothy.
I did not know there were arminian baptist churches?This is news to me as I was under the impression that they were all of the Calvinist way of thought
So what's the true doctine preacherman? Election of God or Decisional Regeneration by man? Just remember according to history, the true protestant stance is Reformed which Calvin represented and Molinism represented the Vatican. Molinism resembles Arminianism.
Calvin does not define the Reformation. It had many facets, but some are more so ignored, especially by Calvinists. The true doctrine is the Bible which teaches a co-operation between the will of God and the decision of man.
It looks like the early church agree with your reading too: "As a rule, the exertion of free-will, human efforts in a right direction, precede the divine aid, and
render men worthy of it. It is a doctrine of synergism. God and man cooperate." So that "In harmony with the foregoing views as to human freedom and responsibility, conditional predestination is the doctrine inculcated by the Greek Fathers." History of Christian Doctrine page 165 by George
Who cares about the "protestant stance?" Let's go to a Bible stance.
Additionally, you have separated the Anabaptists and others who were a part of the Reformation and who were murdered by the thousands by the Calvinists.
Its an interesting fact that the only thing that could bring the Calvinist Reformed and the Catholic Church together was to hold temporary truces to combine forces to go and wipe out Anabaptist villages.
Wouldn't it Be Simply Wonderful If GOD actually Loves every Person He ever Created?
And God HIMSELF Orchestrated EVERYTHING that has Ever happened in History. The Creation of The universe Then Man,Then The entrance of Sin into the world.The Creation of Satan. Good as well as Evil, Death , Then Send a SAVIOR to Die for EVERY Mans Sin Thats ever been born. And in the End Change every persons Nature from Sinful Unbelieving to Believing. a Savior who would Save EVERYONE.
Take a look at Hebrews chapters 6 and 10 and you will see that apostasy can also do it. You can also look at John chapter 15:5-6, Romans chapter 11:13-23, 1 Tim. 4:1, 2 Peter 1:5-11 and 2 Peter 2:20-22. The last one is about false teachers, but as you will see it clearly says they may have once knew the Lord.
I would not rely on the historicity of all this, e.g. Josephus too deeply. Its a compilation of various texts of differing Greek styles unknown to Tacitus and the Talmud. 2nd or 3rd century Pseudographia in whole or part.
Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (Romans 9:13-16 NASB) These
verses stand by themselves.
baaaconman 1 month ago
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 6 months ago
I believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins past, present and future for everyone on the planet past, present and future.. and whosoever believes on, have faith and trust in Him for their ETERNAL SALVATION, shall not perish but, have everlasting life. The GIFT was freely offered and can be accepted or rejected.
I believe Jesus did it all and we are in the position of receiving it. I believe Christ's righteousness is imputed onto us at the time we come to Him by faith.
What am I?
margovallen 9 months ago
@margovallen I'd just call you a Christian, but others would probably label you an Arminian based on what you said.
preacherman777 9 months ago
@preacherman777 Thats it! I'm a born-again Christian. Frankly, I'd heard the terms 'Arminian/Calvinist' years ago.. but, never did any investigation as to what those really were until a year or so, ago.
I believe God gives us free will. God has His Will but, His love doesn't allow His Will to dominate or be forceful. I also believe that, while we are lost and hopeless, dead in our sin.. in need of salvation and a Savior, we are able to come to God, as He is always standing at the door knocking.
margovallen 9 months ago
@preacherman777 I believe Christ only died for the "Elect".
Read what Jesus said in the parables and at the last supper.
Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mat 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
NB3K 8 months ago
@NB3K Here's some problems with your Scriptural support, brother. Just trying to help you out. Matt. 26:28 merely states that Christ's atoning work on the cross was meant for a large number of people, but no conclusions can be drawn from this passage alone about its quantification (all or some). Also if Matt. 15:24 refers to the elect, then it also teaches that the elect only includes Jews. Jesus was simply stating that His ministry while on earth was primarily for the Jews.
jlopez47 8 months ago
People Let's follow Our Lord Jesus Christ. Not some old pious men who wanted to add or minus to God's word. Jesus is Lord and we ought to follow Him to the end.
changeishere2008 10 months ago
I am of Paul? ....I am of Apollos? I have a book from the 1950s that has historic places in America.The stunning thing about it were the multiple churches in the historic east coast who made statues of their founding preachers and placed them in their sanctuaries.I was redeemed by receiving the free gift of God...therefore I am of Christ.God bless all who love and follow the Son .....
Religionandhistory 1 year ago
THERE ARE TOO MUCH CALVIN, WESLEY ARMINIUS , PAUL, APOLLOS , AND FEW JESUS!!! REFORMED BELIEVE THAT WE ARE PREDESTINED TO BE SAVED , BUT BEFORE , WE NEED TO BECOME CALVINIST HEHEH TOTAL JOKE!
u2bMODERATOR 1 year ago
Fantastic video. I think alot of the mischaractarisations of Arminianism would be ceased if people simply read what they wrote/write!
ArminianMorningTea 1 year ago
Right here is John Calvin commenting on Romans 1:16 this is an excert. It clearly shows that you do not know calvin
At the same time, as he works not effectually in all, but only where the Spirit, the inward Teacher, illuminates the heart, he subjoins, To every one who believeth. The gospel is indeed offered to all for their salvation, but the power of it appears not everywhere: and that it is the savor of death to the ungodly, does not proceed from what it is, but from their own wickedness.
NB3K 1 year ago
I dont get it
what is it to be arminian??
PBLOVSH 2 years ago
@PBLOVSH An Arminian denies the Aboslute Sovereingty of an Omnipotent God. They do this by worshipping a humanistic concept of "freewill" They believe that mans will must coperate with God's will "synergism" in the act of regeneration. A Calvinist says no. In the act of regeneration it is Monergistic in the sense that humans are dead in their sins it is only God who can save man. NOT OF WORKS but on God who has mercy on whom he pleases to. Look at the state of the Church it's Arminian.
NB3K 1 year ago
@NB3K Totaly sold out to Calvin. who will be your judge on the last day John Calvin or Yeshua ?
changeishere2008 10 months ago
@NB3K well if Calvinism is completely correct, then there isn't really any doubt that all the Calvinists in world won't have any trouble turning the Church around is there?
roaringwaterbay 9 months ago
Salvation is an inheritance prepared for God's people:
Eph1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Heb9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that THOSE WHO ARE CALLED may receive the promised eternal inheritance
1Pet1:3
..to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, KEPT IN HEAVEN FOR YOU
Eph1:14
who is the GUARANTEE of OUR inheritance
ChristianTULIP 3 years ago
I am Glad I am no longer a Armininan
youratm 3 years ago
I applaud your efforts, but I don't think unity is going to happen. It is a noble task.
I believe instead of a constant debate(s) between the two, both sides should move on to other opponents. I think both sides should consider letting the other side alone, and treat each other as Christians and focus on other pressing issues.
BlackLantern2841 3 years ago
I have stayed away from Wesley because of arminianism. I am more of a fan of Johnathan Edwards he was a calvinist and so am I
synodofdort 3 years ago
Well, there ya go. You just need to broaden your horizons. Proverbs tells us there is wisdom in many counselors.
preacherman777 3 years ago
@preacherman777 Amen. I read both. Both are good.
Ansem715 2 years ago
@preacherman777 Yes but Wesley put works before Sovereign Grace. What I call the gospel, you call it "calvinism." But the true of the matter is, John Calvin teaches what the Bible teaches. You ought to read his commentaries. You ought to also read John Owen. Our country's Christians belief's during the revolutionary war leaned on calvinistic doctrines.
NB3K 1 year ago
@NB3K Wesley did not put works before grace. To suggest that he did is to totally midunderstand his beliefs. He simply believed in conditional security, which rested upon fruitful faith, not works. This is the same test that the Calvinist would apply to know if one was were truly in the faith. I've read many commentaries by Calvinists and non of them speak truth to me. I base my belief on the Word of God and not on commentaries, therefore, I must reject Calvinism.
preacherman777 1 year ago
@preacherman777 Yeah but you are doing the same thing by standing on Arminian Theology. If you are going to stand on the Word of God, than without Wesley or Calvin what does Paul say in Romans 9?
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
NB3K 1 year ago
@preacherman777 I also said that you should read John Calvin's commentary on Romans. I did not say read what a "calvinist" says. If you are going to reject a teachers teaching you should know what Calvin actually tought.
NB3K 1 year ago
@NB3K I reject Calvinism as we have come to know it today. I realize that what we know today does not entirely reflect John Calvin's own views, but it's not his views that are in question when judging the theology that uses his name. Heck, it's not even really his theology as it has it's roots with Augustine, but the theology is what must be judged and I do judge it to be unbiblical. I'm not calling it heresy as some do, but I would equate it with a poor theology, much as I do Catholicism.
preacherman777 1 year ago
@preacherman777 There is a Biblical basis in the doctrines of grace "TULIP". Hell all one has to do is read the Prophets in the old testament. Also remember it is Jacob Arminus that also said that John Calvin's commentaries are the best one can get. So that in a sense should say something. Read AW PINK and the Soveriegnty of God.
NB3K 1 year ago
@preacherman777 You have no idea of what you are talking about. Before there was Calvinism it was commonly refered to as the Gospel. Until that heretic Arminius step on the scene and caused a divison in the church.
NB3K 1 year ago
@preacherman777 Calvinism is so fake .....Praise God one less deceived person on You Tube. elect- non- elect what a lie .
changeishere2008 10 months ago
@preacherman777 Yeah but wesley does not say jack about this verse.
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
This verse here locks my theological construct and logic in concrete,
NB3K 1 year ago
@preacherman777 amen. Howell Harris, who was Calvinist, concurs. Rumors floated around that Wesley did not preach justification by faith alone, and Harris himself was stirred up about it (saying some of the same things that are said against Wesley today). When Harris did hear him first hand, he affirmed Wesley did indeed preach justification by faith alone, and further, Harris testified that Wesley had the evidence of God's blessing with his preaching in discernable power of the Holy Ghost.
benhuey 1 year ago
@NB3K
Reformed Theology is replacement theology. The deceivers hated the jews they wanted them gone. Don't forget Yeshua was a Jew. Calvinism is anti semetic. Salvation is of the Jews. Not Gentiles. The Gentiles were grafted into Abraham's branch because of God's grace. T.U.L.I.P is sick.
changeishere2008 10 months ago
@synodofdort
Calvinism is a lie it's deception with eyes wide open.
changeishere2008 10 months ago
Is'nt it interesting . . . that Jesus only used the word grace one time in scripture and it was not used to define the salvation of men. Jesus came . . . all the way from heaven to earth to teach men how to obtain eternal life and the main source of human thinking on salvation is based on a word that Jesus did not use when he taught men about eternal life.
The word grace (found only four times) in the four gospels and it is always used to describe an attribute of God.
enotstehw 3 years ago
It makes no difference if something in the Word of God is spoken by Moses, Paul, Simon-Peter or Jesus Himself... all scripture is God breathed and carries the same authority!
Brightstar27 2 years ago
@enotstehw Yes but the word Grace is refered to 125 times in the NT and 7 times in the OT. Read Acts and the epistles of Paul to the Churches and Timothy.
NB3K 1 year ago
I did not know there were arminian baptist churches?This is news to me as I was under the impression that they were all of the Calvinist way of thought
Great video's Preacherman.......Blessing's
methodist42071 3 years ago
So what's the true doctine preacherman? Election of God or Decisional Regeneration by man? Just remember according to history, the true protestant stance is Reformed which Calvin represented and Molinism represented the Vatican. Molinism resembles Arminianism.
aquin520 3 years ago
Calvin does not define the Reformation. It had many facets, but some are more so ignored, especially by Calvinists. The true doctrine is the Bible which teaches a co-operation between the will of God and the decision of man.
preacherman777 3 years ago
It looks like the early church agree with your reading too: "As a rule, the exertion of free-will, human efforts in a right direction, precede the divine aid, and
render men worthy of it. It is a doctrine of synergism. God and man cooperate." So that "In harmony with the foregoing views as to human freedom and responsibility, conditional predestination is the doctrine inculcated by the Greek Fathers." History of Christian Doctrine page 165 by George
Park Fisher DD LLD. T&T Clark.
Well done.
gracetruthguy 3 years ago
Amen! What about Martin Luther with a view of Unlimited atonement, like John Calvin?
BlackLantern2841 3 years ago
Who cares about the "protestant stance?" Let's go to a Bible stance.
Additionally, you have separated the Anabaptists and others who were a part of the Reformation and who were murdered by the thousands by the Calvinists.
Its an interesting fact that the only thing that could bring the Calvinist Reformed and the Catholic Church together was to hold temporary truces to combine forces to go and wipe out Anabaptist villages.
Same mother, same spirit.
JTTNMinistries 3 years ago
Wouldn't it Be Simply Wonderful If GOD actually Loves every Person He ever Created?
And God HIMSELF Orchestrated EVERYTHING that has Ever happened in History. The Creation of The universe Then Man,Then The entrance of Sin into the world.The Creation of Satan. Good as well as Evil, Death , Then Send a SAVIOR to Die for EVERY Mans Sin Thats ever been born. And in the End Change every persons Nature from Sinful Unbelieving to Believing. a Savior who would Save EVERYONE.
Then God would be GOOD.
howsziz 3 years ago
You can't save everyone.
MULESLAX 3 years ago
Great video! Thank you very much. The LORD bless you!
jfranklins 4 years ago
Good work. Have you read the two classic treatments on the topic by Robert Shank? "Life in the Son" and "Elect in the Son" Have fun
bobbyq2 4 years ago
i learned this all in confermation classes a while agoe
BashinitX511 4 years ago
Very enjoyable. John Wesley is my favorite protestant.
potatofarts 4 years ago
This explanation was much needed, thank you. I have been wiki-ing these things (ack).
SadieDammit 4 years ago
regarding falling from grace: the only thing i have read that can do it is if you speak ill of the holy spirit. That is the unforgivable sin.
hhartely35 4 years ago
Take a look at Hebrews chapters 6 and 10 and you will see that apostasy can also do it. You can also look at John chapter 15:5-6, Romans chapter 11:13-23, 1 Tim. 4:1, 2 Peter 1:5-11 and 2 Peter 2:20-22. The last one is about false teachers, but as you will see it clearly says they may have once knew the Lord.
preacherman777 4 years ago
will do
hhartely35 4 years ago
I would not rely on the historicity of all this, e.g. Josephus too deeply. Its a compilation of various texts of differing Greek styles unknown to Tacitus and the Talmud. 2nd or 3rd century Pseudographia in whole or part.
video JOSEPHUS, JESUS, AND THE JEWISH WAR
Ecothearcy 4 years ago
I didn't know that the General Baptist were arminian.........I thought that all the Baptist's were of the Calvinistic point of view
Bulldog42450 4 years ago
Most are, but the General and Free Baptists are exceptions.
preacherman777 4 years ago