I wish it was a real o'furo, as in a hot water bath. In actuality it was a small room with corrugated plastic walls, a cement floor, and two cold water faucets. Yoyogi Dojo was open to the elements, icy in the winter, hot in the summer. But what great memories. I trained there from late 1973 until Higaonna Sensei had to relocate in the early 80's. It was never locked so you could stop in and train, with or without the lights, any time of day or night. A true sanctuary. Arigato Higaonna Sensei.
that must of been amazing to have trained like that , ive heard stories of the condensation dripping off the roof , are you on youtube are you still with mr higaonna
I trained at Yoyogi Dojo in 1981. It was so hot, stank of sweat, no air conditioning and stuffy as hell. I think the heat and humidity made training almost impossible. I collapsed 3 times in one session and one of my students threw up.
"When dan [black-belt level] grades perform, individuality appears in kata, but it is better not to develop an extreme habit." Gogen Yamguchi - Goju ryu Karatedo Kyohan
The extreme habit that Yamaguchi had was his lack of face to face training w/ Miyagi. It was a good thing Yagi bailed him out. Watch Geo. Alexanders DVD "The Cat" and see how rough or "GoGen" Rough guy Yamaguchi's kata was. He performed Suparenpai improperly. Too bad you have to cite from a book, rather than folks you train with.
Actualy I have been trying to tell people to land on there embusan as I have been taught, but all these open minded Karateka have been acting as though I am making things up often calling me names and speculating all sorts of things about me. So I figured if I could find more evidence, that should be indisputable, perhaps I would be able to open some eyes.
I do not blame the student, I blame the teacher. I was with Goju Kai for 11 years prior to my start w/ Chinen 24 + yrs ago. What little I knew in those first 11 years.
I prefer the Japanese version ... much more crisp in my eyes, besides the idea of returning to your embusan also has philisophical meaning. Perhaps the Okis (one man to be specific, not the Island)"created" Karate but this does not make it theirs, since it is nothing more then bastardized Kunfu. I have seen Chinen and Higaonna, and to be honest I think they are sloppy, powerful but sloppy.
Once again, I would suggest that should you ever get to train w/ them do so. I am of the opposite side that the Yamaguchi-ha is slow and robotic; too many mistakes and sloppy. Check out Shinjo Sensei in the Oki Karate Kobudo demo series. He trained w/ Yagi & Toguchi and tell me if u think he is sloppy too. If so, then all Oki Goju is wrong and yours is right!
Simply don't know the reality??? The reality is that Karate comes from Okinawa, from guys who learned Kung Fu. Since they did not teach all the Wushu they learned and did not teach it the way they learned it, I stand by my statement that Karate is nothing more then bastardized Kung Fu.
The reality is the lack of knowledge of ancient Asian history and folklore that I'm hearing. True, Okinawa absorbed much and drew upon the martial arts from China, it laid the foundation. However, in Okinawa it was raised to another level in order to create a form of fighting most effective to dissable and kill. Anyone who sees the movements of okinawa te as "sloppy" doesn't understand how the movements changed to make the human body a more efficient "killing machine".
As far as being sloppy, I suppose that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I must say this ... of the four Jap arts I study all are agreed when it comes to NOT bobbing up and down when transitioning to another stance. Oh they all agree with the embusen part too.
I'm not angry, I am just stating my oppinion. I really don't mean to offend with my observations, I was just stating the obvious truth (Bastardized Kung Fu) ... besides you are the one who responded to a comment I made 4 mos. ago.
e'nbusen [e'n - drawing, bu - part, division, section, sen - line, route] or 'kata floor pattern' varies with individuals.. would you have a 7 footer use the e'nbusen of a 5 footer?
all may come to kiten [come to + point] to start their kata.. in kihon kata most will finish on kiten, but in more advanced kata the more advanced will finish on a different spot, due to suri ashi etc, which is correct..
as you like quoting, e'nbusen, a learning tool, is not, kiten..
My back hand is chambering and increasing my power by maximizing the rotation of my hip. Can't see how that would make me bob up and down? I am actually pretty curious about the Oki explanation of this.
You are only thinking about power being transmitted on one plane, and that plane is a horizontal plane that is parallel to the floor. Okinawans do not bob up and down. If you look at the kata, there are specific times when you transition from a zenkutsu dachi to a shizentai dachi or from one stance to another, and other times when they remain on the same plane. The transition from high to low or low to high is specific and conscious. It is not arbitrary.
to understand why, you have to understand that much of the karate is happening in close quarters and that grappling (tuite) is happening during the transitions, not the end of the technique. Remaining on one plane maintains one's own balance, but off balancing requires transitioning from low to high and high to low and changing angles. The concept is call happo no kuzushi. In essence, Okinawan ryuha appear linear to and outsider, but they are really circular systems.
the back hand is used for pulling the opponent off balance as you strike, the back hand can also be an elbow strike, this puling /pushing action has many purposes i.e. breaking limbs by levering against the body, disarming opponents. this is difficult to explain in words, however it does have its uses.
embusen is a Japanese concept, and really has no basis is the meaning of the kata. There is a specific method of analysis for Okinawan kata. It completely removes the concept of embusen.
And by the way, are those Japanese arts systems of karate.
By the way, I am an Okinawan stylist and I admire your questions. But try to remain open to other ways of doing the kata. There really is a sophisticated method to the thinking.
@yorkokinawankarate Normally I would ignore responses to comments I made 2+ yrs ago but what the heck. I must admit my understanding of the OKi way has improved, but I still dont always agree. The styles of Japanese MA I study are Iaido, Jodo, Judo, and Karatedo, and all have a similar flavour.
It's a naive thought because if I didn't believe in the IOGKF and in my sensei, I'd not join the IOGKF and stayed for so many years. Began at 8 with Shitoryu (stayed for 7 yrs), at university I did Shotokan (4yrs) and then I did Goju-kai(Seigokan)(6 yrs) before I met my sensei who teaches me Okinawan Goju-ryu, IOGKF.
I agree with NewEnglandBudo that the 17 yrs prior I learnt nothing. My sensei was able to answer the questions that I've searched 4 n others had not answered in the 17 years b4.I've stayed with him ever since. So it's a naive thought that some random guy quoting of all people, Yamaguchi would change my mind.
Don't be an idiot. You're supposed to slide. Besides, that floor is the normal dojo wood floor. What about Atsuko Wakai on a rubber mat? And Teruo Chinen on grass?
We actually train the slide, and the more the better. That's IOGKF anyway, but of course we're following Sensei Higaonna's teachings and not yours or Yamaguchi's, so whatever you say is irrelevant to me.
"The embu-line is fixed. You start from the starting point and come back to the starting point. One way to practice is to put a mark on the starting point when you act." Gogen Yamaguchi - Goju ryu Karatedo kyohan
That is a point that Yamaguchi-ha Goju practices, yet the Okinawans do not. Watch my other tape of Chinen in the 70's & 80's and you will see him doing a similar slide.
I had the opportunity to speak with Higaonna Sensei one year when he visited Okinawa for a tournament and demo: he was a very kind and gracious man, took time out of a visit with my teacher to meet me--great example of a true karate master.
I wish it was a real o'furo, as in a hot water bath. In actuality it was a small room with corrugated plastic walls, a cement floor, and two cold water faucets. Yoyogi Dojo was open to the elements, icy in the winter, hot in the summer. But what great memories. I trained there from late 1973 until Higaonna Sensei had to relocate in the early 80's. It was never locked so you could stop in and train, with or without the lights, any time of day or night. A true sanctuary. Arigato Higaonna Sensei.
tubedusa 3 years ago
that must of been amazing to have trained like that , ive heard stories of the condensation dripping off the roof , are you on youtube are you still with mr higaonna
gojukanboyno1 3 years ago
on the 5 min and 37 sec there is a Naked fat guy walking on the background. Funny!
kontra74 3 years ago
Yes he was walking to the o'furo!
NewEnglandBudo 3 years ago
on the min 5 and 37 sec there is a naked guy walking on the background. Funny!
kontra74 3 years ago
The JKF Goju Kai is different to the Yamguchi Goju Kai. More than 95% the same as Okinawan Goju.
Colemandina 4 years ago
I trained at Yoyogi Dojo in 1981. It was so hot, stank of sweat, no air conditioning and stuffy as hell. I think the heat and humidity made training almost impossible. I collapsed 3 times in one session and one of my students threw up.
Colemandina 4 years ago
that's awesome
InvisibleKillMachine 4 years ago
Sometimes I use 2 chi-ishi.
Colemandina 4 years ago
"When dan [black-belt level] grades perform, individuality appears in kata, but it is better not to develop an extreme habit." Gogen Yamguchi - Goju ryu Karatedo Kyohan
kirokyukan 4 years ago
The extreme habit that Yamaguchi had was his lack of face to face training w/ Miyagi. It was a good thing Yagi bailed him out. Watch Geo. Alexanders DVD "The Cat" and see how rough or "GoGen" Rough guy Yamaguchi's kata was. He performed Suparenpai improperly. Too bad you have to cite from a book, rather than folks you train with.
NewEnglandBudo 4 years ago
Actualy I have been trying to tell people to land on there embusan as I have been taught, but all these open minded Karateka have been acting as though I am making things up often calling me names and speculating all sorts of things about me. So I figured if I could find more evidence, that should be indisputable, perhaps I would be able to open some eyes.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
Perhaps it is your source info that is incorrect.
NewEnglandBudo 4 years ago
I do not blame the student, I blame the teacher. I was with Goju Kai for 11 years prior to my start w/ Chinen 24 + yrs ago. What little I knew in those first 11 years.
NewEnglandBudo 4 years ago
I prefer the Japanese version ... much more crisp in my eyes, besides the idea of returning to your embusan also has philisophical meaning. Perhaps the Okis (one man to be specific, not the Island)"created" Karate but this does not make it theirs, since it is nothing more then bastardized Kunfu. I have seen Chinen and Higaonna, and to be honest I think they are sloppy, powerful but sloppy.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
Once again, I would suggest that should you ever get to train w/ them do so. I am of the opposite side that the Yamaguchi-ha is slow and robotic; too many mistakes and sloppy. Check out Shinjo Sensei in the Oki Karate Kobudo demo series. He trained w/ Yagi & Toguchi and tell me if u think he is sloppy too. If so, then all Oki Goju is wrong and yours is right!
NewEnglandBudo 4 years ago
everyone, doing kata, returns to the embusen..
no doubt you refer to the kiten point..
'nothing more than bastardized kung fu' shows that you simply dont know the reality..
'i think' Chinen and Higaonna are sloppy, is a
comment on your thought process'; you think,
these modern day masters 'are sloppy', shows
that you might think, but dont, know..
shisoshin0 4 years ago
Simply don't know the reality??? The reality is that Karate comes from Okinawa, from guys who learned Kung Fu. Since they did not teach all the Wushu they learned and did not teach it the way they learned it, I stand by my statement that Karate is nothing more then bastardized Kung Fu.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
The reality is the lack of knowledge of ancient Asian history and folklore that I'm hearing. True, Okinawa absorbed much and drew upon the martial arts from China, it laid the foundation. However, in Okinawa it was raised to another level in order to create a form of fighting most effective to dissable and kill. Anyone who sees the movements of okinawa te as "sloppy" doesn't understand how the movements changed to make the human body a more efficient "killing machine".
Joseratc 4 years ago
As far as being sloppy, I suppose that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I must say this ... of the four Jap arts I study all are agreed when it comes to NOT bobbing up and down when transitioning to another stance. Oh they all agree with the embusen part too.
Peace.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
starting with exaggerated premise like a politician, prevents rational exchange..
"bastardise" has meaning beyond 'change'..
"sloppy" is porridge, not karate waza..
even "bobbing up and down" is simplistic..
there are - reasons for - raising and lowering the c of g in movement, outside of artificial tournament pointscoring..
you are reading but not listening, watching but not seeing..
shisoshin0 4 years ago
Encarta
Bastardize
Definition:
1. debase: to lower the value or quality of something by combining it with something else
2. declare somebody illegitimate: to prove or declare somebody to be illegitimate
kirokyukan 4 years ago
sloppy
Definition:
1. messy: lacking order or tidiness
kirokyukan 4 years ago
the operative point was your; "nothing more than" ['bastardaised fungfu']..
calling higaonna hanshi 10th dan 'sloppy' may be your opinion, yet my opinion to the contrary is equally valid..
[esp having felt the techniques of both higaonna and chinen dai-sensei]
whatever youre angry about, is wasted on me..
shisoshin0 4 years ago
I'm not angry, I am just stating my oppinion. I really don't mean to offend with my observations, I was just stating the obvious truth (Bastardized Kung Fu) ... besides you are the one who responded to a comment I made 4 mos. ago.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
e'nbusen [e'n - drawing, bu - part, division, section, sen - line, route] or 'kata floor pattern' varies with individuals.. would you have a 7 footer use the e'nbusen of a 5 footer?
all may come to kiten [come to + point] to start their kata.. in kihon kata most will finish on kiten, but in more advanced kata the more advanced will finish on a different spot, due to suri ashi etc, which is correct..
as you like quoting, e'nbusen, a learning tool, is not, kiten..
shisoshin0 4 years ago
i totally agree,
sport karate has weakened karate
JIMMYBUSHIDO 4 years ago
that "bobbing up and down " is the most missunderstood part of all karate
think ..what is the back hand doing when you punch ???
JIMMYBUSHIDO 4 years ago
My back hand is chambering and increasing my power by maximizing the rotation of my hip. Can't see how that would make me bob up and down? I am actually pretty curious about the Oki explanation of this.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
@kirokyukan
Easy,
You are only thinking about power being transmitted on one plane, and that plane is a horizontal plane that is parallel to the floor. Okinawans do not bob up and down. If you look at the kata, there are specific times when you transition from a zenkutsu dachi to a shizentai dachi or from one stance to another, and other times when they remain on the same plane. The transition from high to low or low to high is specific and conscious. It is not arbitrary.
yorkokinawankarate 2 years ago
@kirokyukan
to understand why, you have to understand that much of the karate is happening in close quarters and that grappling (tuite) is happening during the transitions, not the end of the technique. Remaining on one plane maintains one's own balance, but off balancing requires transitioning from low to high and high to low and changing angles. The concept is call happo no kuzushi. In essence, Okinawan ryuha appear linear to and outsider, but they are really circular systems.
yorkokinawankarate 2 years ago
the back hand is used for pulling the opponent off balance as you strike, the back hand can also be an elbow strike, this puling /pushing action has many purposes i.e. breaking limbs by levering against the body, disarming opponents. this is difficult to explain in words, however it does have its uses.
singhakabuttar 3 years ago
@kirokyukan
embusen is a Japanese concept, and really has no basis is the meaning of the kata. There is a specific method of analysis for Okinawan kata. It completely removes the concept of embusen.
And by the way, are those Japanese arts systems of karate.
By the way, I am an Okinawan stylist and I admire your questions. But try to remain open to other ways of doing the kata. There really is a sophisticated method to the thinking.
yorkokinawankarate 2 years ago
@yorkokinawankarate Normally I would ignore responses to comments I made 2+ yrs ago but what the heck. I must admit my understanding of the OKi way has improved, but I still dont always agree. The styles of Japanese MA I study are Iaido, Jodo, Judo, and Karatedo, and all have a similar flavour.
kirokyukan 2 years ago
It's a naive thought because if I didn't believe in the IOGKF and in my sensei, I'd not join the IOGKF and stayed for so many years. Began at 8 with Shitoryu (stayed for 7 yrs), at university I did Shotokan (4yrs) and then I did Goju-kai(Seigokan)(6 yrs) before I met my sensei who teaches me Okinawan Goju-ryu, IOGKF.
Pecherin72 4 years ago
I agree with NewEnglandBudo that the 17 yrs prior I learnt nothing. My sensei was able to answer the questions that I've searched 4 n others had not answered in the 17 years b4.I've stayed with him ever since. So it's a naive thought that some random guy quoting of all people, Yamaguchi would change my mind.
Pecherin72 4 years ago
Whoa, in Suparimpei, Higaonna sensei could slide as if he had soap water on the floor! Not seen anyone slide like that since!!
Pecherin72 4 years ago
The slide is why is unable to land on his embusan in this Kata, put him on grass and he will do it properly.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
Don't be an idiot. You're supposed to slide. Besides, that floor is the normal dojo wood floor. What about Atsuko Wakai on a rubber mat? And Teruo Chinen on grass?
Pecherin72 4 years ago
Yes you are supposed to slide but not over exagerate your slide like he is doing.
kirokyukan 4 years ago
We actually train the slide, and the more the better. That's IOGKF anyway, but of course we're following Sensei Higaonna's teachings and not yours or Yamaguchi's, so whatever you say is irrelevant to me.
Pecherin72 4 years ago
"The embu-line is fixed. You start from the starting point and come back to the starting point. One way to practice is to put a mark on the starting point when you act." Gogen Yamaguchi - Goju ryu Karatedo kyohan
kirokyukan 4 years ago
That is a point that Yamaguchi-ha Goju practices, yet the Okinawans do not. Watch my other tape of Chinen in the 70's & 80's and you will see him doing a similar slide.
NewEnglandBudo 4 years ago
I had the opportunity to speak with Higaonna Sensei one year when he visited Okinawa for a tournament and demo: he was a very kind and gracious man, took time out of a visit with my teacher to meet me--great example of a true karate master.
NMCK69 5 years ago
Higaonna Sensei will be talked about like the great old masters, Itosu, Mabuni etc. I love seeing footage like this ...AWESOME
CrankyPjs 5 years ago
Naked dude suddenly in the background is great as well.
halfoat 5 years ago
for me the greatest sensei alive!
perlbuda 5 years ago
hey i like a lot of what i see of higoana-sensei's goju.
how much does that traditional conditioning tool wieght (the weighted handle?)
ashehiggs 5 years ago
They whey anywhere between 10 and 25 pounds. Depending upon the age and maturity level of the practicioner. I have seen heavier one, too.
NewEnglandBudo 5 years ago
oops, whey should be weigh..
NewEnglandBudo 5 years ago
cool, thanx
ashehiggs 5 years ago
nice training vid
yingjow 5 years ago
that's a strong ass wrist. He shoulda smacked that dude with the weight for getting in the video.
kakorroto 5 years ago
This is history
senseiramalho 5 years ago
Enjoy, more to come!!
NewEnglandBudo 5 years ago