Emerging Leaders - Justice Revival

[MrConsitution]

In general Mr. Wallis statements sound good but it has no merit in biblical terms

It is not the church or a government to bring/force social justice. Individuals should have the choice to choose whether are not they want to help the poor.

Proverbs 17:23 A wicked man take a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.

[Hubie59]

Sojourners is heretical.

[TsD1455]

shane spoke at Urbana 09 SO AWESOME

[Dejavu12321]

If Jesus/God can forgive peter for betraying him 3 times back-to-back even though he knew who Jesus was, then surely he will forgive anyone for any sin. I feel we just need to realize and believe he is lord and savior and fight for him rather than our self. Your nature will change from loving sin and feeling no problem with it to hating it and crying out for help to combatant it.

[fothgt]

As with any movement in Christianity I pray that leaders "earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). Back in the late sixties and early seventies there was a Jesus movement. This movement shined for a season and then fizzled out. Thomas Zimmerman (former leader of the Assemblies of God) once said, when there is a true revival there is emphasis on the blood of Jesus. The measure of a movement is on the person of Christ and Him bringing transformation.

[lahridon2000]

Alright ease up just kidding! - but seriously to substitute the preaching of the true Gospel (that all men are DEAD in sin, are wretched to the core and are desrving of hell but for the propitiating death of Christ) for a "social gospel" is dangerous if so taught as to displace, outflank, modify, or even ostensibly "tweek" the Gospel that I just described (Galatians 1:8 - Paul pronounces "anathema" on such proponents) please read this passage as this subject is not something to be trifled with

[iammthero]

I don't know how you can sum up the Gospel in one sentence fragment. I would agree all men are dead in sin but please show me where you find wretched to the core because those are two very different concepts. We are all made in the image of God and through Christ's death all things in Heaven and on Earth were reconciled so it would seem "wretched to the core" is completely non Biblical.

[lahridon2000]

Good comments but I have to say that your garden variety emergent could not sum anything up in one sentence. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 provides a good summary of what the gospel is. Wretched we are - totality of our rebellion Romans 3:9-10 and 18 and 7:18 ; thus in his total rebellion everything man does is sin Romans 14:23 (Whatever is not from faith is sin); Ephesians 2:3 etc, etc. Of course we are not as bad as we could potentially be but for Gods restraining common grace

[iammthero]

We have what we are taught by Jesus, then we have a story and accounts of how we should relate it and spread it to the world. But Paul and the other New Testament writers can't contradict Jesus' message. If they did the Bible would not stand up. Beautifully enough it all makes sense. But when we try to implement Paul's letters and other writings in our lives without the foundation of what Jesus actually said that is when we find the "gospels" that Galatians 1:8 warns us about.

[lahridon2000]

Yep they sure cant and they sure dont.

Yep also agree context is important

[iammthero]

We tend to fill in gaps in the writers thought processes that are intended to be filled in with what Jesus said; not what our "churches", "pastors", or current and narrow political spectrum tells us. Please re-read the 4 Gospels all the way through (Or at least the sermon on the mount) and see how our churches and lives measure up to what Jesus said. All this movement is about is doing just that.

[lahridon2000]

And the if "movement" is honest it will find that our churches and lives dont measure up, and cant measure up - ref the sermon on the mount - I dont think Jesus was looking for the crowd to throw him a bouquet for his great morals - nor was he evincing an intention for us to go and perform the impossible - the law is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (ie. repent and agree with God about our hopeless estate). Go feed the poor, go free the opressed but do not confuse the Law with the gospel

[iammthero]

If we are afraid of looking at the health and functionality of our current "church" systems compared to what Christ says then I am absolutely convinced we need to tweak ourselves and our perspectives. Because that is very different from tweaking the Gospel.

[lahridon2000]

Yep - agree to the extent it is not inconsistent with the Gospel.

[stopularno]

Shane misunderstands basic economics...he sees wealth as a limited concept (Marxism). Take this example: Grand Rapids, Muskegon, and Holland Michigan Metro Area (something like 1.2million people) produces just as much wealth as the whole nation of Indonesia and its 110million ppl. Shane would see: how can the Michiganders give up their wealth to give it to the Indonesians, the truth asks: how can Michiganders unlock Indonesian capacity to produce wealth at same levels as they themselves do?

[termsofusepolice]

@stopularno

Yes... This fits clearly with the commandmant Jesus gave to the wealthy young man!

"If you would be perfect, go, unlock the poors' capacity to produce wealth at the same level you, yourself, do."

Real Economics Reality Check: Every single dollar you possess - right now - was possessed by someone else before it was redistributed to you.

(The only possible exception - you are a government contractor. Then the dollar you possess may have come fresh off the press.)

[andie20]

I want to quote part of this for a social justice essay....is it anywhere in writing?

[descanter]

Encouraging and Humbling, too.

[EJjammin]

Shane, thank you for spreading the light!

[valleyintruder]

this man is obviously very disturbed.

[rdebenport]

valleyintruder,

what about this video causes you to believe this man is "obviously very disturbed?" I'm curious.

[rebouel]

Yeah, I'd sure like to know where you are possibly coming from too.

[hebrews13v5]

how so?

[lahridon2000]

So is his weed - you should try it

[rebouel]

Those like him just don't need weed to be high.

Is it hard for you to imagine someone being  selfless and energized without the catalyst of a substance?

[grazon]

Shane Claiborne's book is amazing.