you mentioned the Ballon. It starts off a normal ballon, you pull it down to depth it shrinks let it go it returns to its original size. These bubbles that you create at depth, are they going to increase in size? and what do you they spin turbines placed at the right distance, and then use the gas at the top for further generation? Wouldn't there be a certain speed the bubbles would reach before they could accelerate like Terminal velocity in reverse or the hull speed of a boat design
@TheDannyman81 the bubbles will start off very small and increase in size, and therefore lift, as they float up. the bubbles can be caught in a balloon chain and the chain can drive a generator. Yes there is a terminal velocity, but you make up for lack of speed with torque, for LBS of lift. And as far as cost goes, well I have to feed and house my family, so that takes priority. and that takes all my money at the current time, so doing this is not getting done, maybe someone with money will
Did you include the IR losses of the wire that would have to extend down 100 meters? Wire resistance can really add up and at high currents such as what you would need, their would be considerable IR losses.
increase wire size dude, also you need to consider the capitance, and inductance, but volt drop can be dealt with by bumbing the voltage up. so no, the ir loses arent important.
What size wire are you talking about? Remember, wire is rated by ohm's per foot. You'd need more than 200 meters of wire to extend down 100 meters.
If you use a really high voltage, you can lower the current for the distance and then use a DC/DC converter to bring the voltage back down, but the conversion process to reduce the voltage will rob some power; and if you start out with a low voltage , you will have to use a DC/DC converter to step it up; more losses.
Please see mike holt's voltage drop calculator to make this easier, and its 100m of wire, you can coonect the other side to "ground" or take it to the source, so you dont count that.
The point is to proof cop greater than 1, so ir loses are not important. there are ways to deal with ir, so not its not important.
yes well you can simply it a bit with rms (which is what calc does anyways), a bubble of almost no size at depth is lets say 2 litres at surface, rms lift = 1 litre. if the cell makes 2lpm at surface, then it has a lift of 1 litre ave per minute.
If this is true, it's all over but the shouting... Salt water at depth useing the sea water as electrolite in a natural inviroment with multiple plates, titanium plated on one side plated with platnium. Salt water battery ? Gary
I agree with you D3, I'm not jokeing when I was talking about makeing a cell to run at depth, powered by salt water batteries or "electrolisis" and the cell useing saltwater for electrolite and looking something like a Battlestar fighter. But I got a thing for flying sauces though... lol
Batteries would have to stick out from the cell so as not to react with cell plates, or maybe. Just an idea. Any gas generated at depth will expand alot depending on depth, but does it take any more energy and would just an electrolis setup at depth be just as good as a hho cell or are they both the same thing anyway ? Gary
Exactly correct D3. I have done the math. Our problem is simply that we are not using all the energy available to us with this technology.
For those who feel like the cell will not perform as well under pressure. They simply have not tried it. It WILL continue to perform as well or eveb better under pressure. I have done it over and over. The only issue is the materials used must be of much higher quality than the norm. That equates to much higher build cost.
So Im just one of those dummies here that cant do the math but If i understand you correctly a cell will be more efficient under pressure? Is this a true assumption?
@afdhalatifftan92 The electrolysis process will continue with little to no regard to pressure. I have read on wiki that electrolysis will continue in a sealed unit up to 2000psi with only a 3% increase in input energy. If you could separate the oxygen, you could make and store your own hydrogen fuel. It would just take a while.
@ AFD, it is commonly mistaken that electrolysis suffers under pressure, that is because the volume of production is less while under pressure, but it is fact that a cell at surface will produce the same as a cell under pressure when the pressurized gas is allowed to to become the same pressure as the surface measured gas.
As you were describing your idea I thought about running a cell a few hundred feet below the surface off salt water, use the bubbles and the flow of the water to turn a turbine to generate additional electricity and also burning the resulting gas at the surface.
Comment removed
TheDannyman81 1 year ago
you mentioned the Ballon. It starts off a normal ballon, you pull it down to depth it shrinks let it go it returns to its original size. These bubbles that you create at depth, are they going to increase in size? and what do you they spin turbines placed at the right distance, and then use the gas at the top for further generation? Wouldn't there be a certain speed the bubbles would reach before they could accelerate like Terminal velocity in reverse or the hull speed of a boat design
TheDannyman81 1 year ago
@TheDannyman81 the bubbles will start off very small and increase in size, and therefore lift, as they float up. the bubbles can be caught in a balloon chain and the chain can drive a generator. Yes there is a terminal velocity, but you make up for lack of speed with torque, for LBS of lift. And as far as cost goes, well I have to feed and house my family, so that takes priority. and that takes all my money at the current time, so doing this is not getting done, maybe someone with money will
d3adp001 1 year ago
Did you include the IR losses of the wire that would have to extend down 100 meters? Wire resistance can really add up and at high currents such as what you would need, their would be considerable IR losses.
jjenson2006 2 years ago
increase wire size dude, also you need to consider the capitance, and inductance, but volt drop can be dealt with by bumbing the voltage up. so no, the ir loses arent important.
d3adp001 2 years ago
What size wire are you talking about? Remember, wire is rated by ohm's per foot. You'd need more than 200 meters of wire to extend down 100 meters.
If you use a really high voltage, you can lower the current for the distance and then use a DC/DC converter to bring the voltage back down, but the conversion process to reduce the voltage will rob some power; and if you start out with a low voltage , you will have to use a DC/DC converter to step it up; more losses.
IR losses ARE important!
jjenson2006 2 years ago
Please see mike holt's voltage drop calculator to make this easier, and its 100m of wire, you can coonect the other side to "ground" or take it to the source, so you dont count that.
The point is to proof cop greater than 1, so ir loses are not important. there are ways to deal with ir, so not its not important.
d3adp001 2 years ago
I started to do the math on this, but my calculus kung fu is kinda weak.
pat1huey 2 years ago
yes well you can simply it a bit with rms (which is what calc does anyways), a bubble of almost no size at depth is lets say 2 litres at surface, rms lift = 1 litre. if the cell makes 2lpm at surface, then it has a lift of 1 litre ave per minute.
d3adp001 2 years ago
If this is true, it's all over but the shouting... Salt water at depth useing the sea water as electrolite in a natural inviroment with multiple plates, titanium plated on one side plated with platnium. Salt water battery ? Gary
llewgnal 2 years ago
I beg of you, please do the math, even if it takes a while to finish, please do it.
Because it is true.
d3adp001 2 years ago
I agree with you D3, I'm not jokeing when I was talking about makeing a cell to run at depth, powered by salt water batteries or "electrolisis" and the cell useing saltwater for electrolite and looking something like a Battlestar fighter. But I got a thing for flying sauces though... lol
llewgnal 2 years ago
Batteries would have to stick out from the cell so as not to react with cell plates, or maybe. Just an idea. Any gas generated at depth will expand alot depending on depth, but does it take any more energy and would just an electrolis setup at depth be just as good as a hho cell or are they both the same thing anyway ? Gary
llewgnal 2 years ago
you confused me with the last part there.
d3adp001 2 years ago
I mean if one puts an hho cell at depth, would a salt water battery do the same thing, generating electricity and hho ?
llewgnal 2 years ago
if the battery makes gas, then yes, but generally they arent supposed to
d3adp001 2 years ago
Exactly correct D3. I have done the math. Our problem is simply that we are not using all the energy available to us with this technology.
For those who feel like the cell will not perform as well under pressure. They simply have not tried it. It WILL continue to perform as well or eveb better under pressure. I have done it over and over. The only issue is the materials used must be of much higher quality than the norm. That equates to much higher build cost.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
@HHOPWR bugger the cost, this all needs to start happening now, throw out the oil companies they have had their shot.
TheDannyman81 1 year ago
@TheDannyman81 well the way to throw them out, is start doing things to not need them anymore.
d3adp001 1 year ago
So Im just one of those dummies here that cant do the math but If i understand you correctly a cell will be more efficient under pressure? Is this a true assumption?
delvis11 2 years ago
It is not the pressure. It is the work that the boyancy of the gas can perform as it is rising.
Larry
HHOPWR 2 years ago
Thx for simplifying It so I can understand :)
R2D2 where are you!
No point in showing us your notebook. I video Is horrible.... Almost like the 1978 star saws movie.
delvis11 2 years ago
hehehe, well I could hope couldnt I, I didnt think it would show up very well.
the cell wont be more eff. at depth, but it is not less eff. either.
sure it produces less volume but that volume is under pressure, as the pressure is decreased, the volume increases.
d3adp001 2 years ago
Your idea is pretty interesting...
But, something is bothering me...
If I'm not mistaken, all Hydroxy Generator perform badly under pressure...
I could be wrong...
What ya think?
afdhalatifftan92 2 years ago
@afdhalatifftan92 The electrolysis process will continue with little to no regard to pressure. I have read on wiki that electrolysis will continue in a sealed unit up to 2000psi with only a 3% increase in input energy. If you could separate the oxygen, you could make and store your own hydrogen fuel. It would just take a while.
pat1huey 2 years ago
@ AFD, it is commonly mistaken that electrolysis suffers under pressure, that is because the volume of production is less while under pressure, but it is fact that a cell at surface will produce the same as a cell under pressure when the pressurized gas is allowed to to become the same pressure as the surface measured gas.
d3adp001 2 years ago
Yup, my mistake...Lol!!
afdhalatifftan92 2 years ago
Oooppss!! My bad... You're right...
Thanks!!
afdhalatifftan92 2 years ago
I imagine you could use this idea as well if you lived far inland, but happen to live in close proximity to an old quarry.
rapttor94 2 years ago
awesome idea
Acridfusion 2 years ago
Hi D3,
I live in Hawaii and we have lots of water here.
As you were describing your idea I thought about running a cell a few hundred feet below the surface off salt water, use the bubbles and the flow of the water to turn a turbine to generate additional electricity and also burning the resulting gas at the surface.
water2gashawaii 2 years ago
a neutrally bouyant plastic chain with balloons geared to a generator.
d3adp001 2 years ago