Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings 2 Part 9 of 18

[DominoChild]

wow its interesting how one belief is conected to another one and that is connected to another etc.

[xyjah]

All Trinities are pagan including supposed "Christian" Trinity

[skatetdieu]

Not really, the only original and first trynity is the one in the Bible. And that is before the Christian era. Actually the word trinity isn't even in the bible. The Bible uses the word Deity.

[xyjah]

When I say Trinity I'm not referring to the word trinity I'm sorry I should have clarified. I'm referring to the concept of 3 gods in one or a set of three gods that work in unison. This pattern can be found in Egyptian, Babylonian, Hindu and other belief systems.

I agree with you that the trinity is not found in the bible the concepts was introduced to Christianity during the rule of constentine who was trying to merge christianity with other beliefs at that time. I want to say 2or4th century

[skatetdieu]

It was the 4th century and I do agree that there was a dispute on whether there was a trinity or not. But what I meant was that the Bible which was written from 1500 bc to 100 ad confirms this belief of three in one. Read 1 john 5:7 which affirms this. And this was written before any council.

It can also be found in the old testament. And it can be traced before the flood. Which after the flood it is when all the pagan religions started coming out Babylon.

[xyjah]

I'm not how sure john confirms that there is a trinity as it just speaks about 3 witness bearers and they are in agreement. This does not say that they are one. Although 1 John 5:1,2 talks about "everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one." This scripture referring to Jesus.

For the old testament you will have to provide scriptures. Deut 6:4 Israel is told that there is only one God/

[skatetdieu]

Well yes the scripture says that also in the new testament that there is only one God. And I agree.

But here is a verse in the old testament that says Jesus is God. Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Notice how it mentions a child who is Jesus, and this child is also called mighty God and father.

[xyjah]

While I do agree that it is talking about Jesus he is called mighty god not almighty god which is used for his father.

Notice it also says a son has been born if Jesus was god then he would not have been born as God always existed. Also to be born you have to have come from someone else.

Also in the old testament there is no mention of the holy spirit being part of the god head. So while it mentions Jesus (not by name) there is no talk of the holy spirit as being God.

[skatetdieu]

Isaiah did call Jesus by name, 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name EMMANUEL."

So did Matthew, 1:23 "Behold, a VIRGIN shall be with CHILD, and shall bring forth a SON, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

John said 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.

1:14 "And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us.

[xyjah]

I don't disagree with you that Isa. is talking about Jesus. Sorry I should not have said by name as I was referring to him as Jesus, where as the scripture is saying what his name will be once he is born not what it was during the time of the prophecy.

John1:1 can can be contested especially based on the translation of the Bible as this was confusing for me as well. Some translations read it as ." and the word was a god." As the greek language does not have a def. article. There is a website

[jbooks888]

the greek language does not have a definite article??? what are you tlking about?

[xyjah]

I'm sorry I should have made that generalization for the language. I'm not going to explain what a definite or indefinite article is as you can easily look that up for yourself instead of me telling you. I should have said that this scripture does not use the articles when it was translated.

The scripture could be translated: "the logos (word) was divine","the word was a god", "God of a sort the word was". Also how can u "be with" and "be" that same person.This made no sense so I researched it.

[xyjah]

@hrbear Also In John 1: 1 where it says : "In the begininning was the word and the word was with the God" The greek word used for God θεόν, theon means "God or God almighty or the God" in the second part of that scripture "and god was the word" the Greek word used is θεὸς theos which can mean "god or god like" these are two different spirits mentioned in this scripture Theon "The Father" theos "The Son"

[xyjah]

@hrbear I see where you are getting at by saying that word can also mean reason but in all honesty that is a moot point because if we are discussing not the translation or interpretation of the word "Word/Reason" but what the "word/reason" actually was in the translation.

[xyjah]

@hrbear Also If we read further in John 1:18 it tells us that "No man has seen God at anytime; the only begotten god who is in the bosom position with the father is the one who explained him" If Jesus was god than this scripture would be a contradiction.

Also if someone is begotten than they are "born" or "beget" by someone else, which would stand to reason that Jesus the son was not always around instead he too had a beginning and was created just like humans were.

[xyjah]

@hrbear Once again you will need to look at the words used for translation, the hebrew word used for god in those verses are the same used for theos. Also what you are telling me is that the Bible is contradicting itself because it plainly says that no man has seen God. So unless you are saying the Bible contradicts itself there is more research that obviously needs to be done before you can say that humans actually say God.

As for your example you lost me at the blob part.

[xyjah]

@hrbear While I've grown up with Christianity I don't just accept things as a fact that "can be". It's different for some I guess but I firmly believe in what the Bible says at Rom 12:2 :And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

I had to prove to myself through research what the Bible says is true, not just what someone else told me was true.

[xyjah]

@hrbear You are very welcome for the responses I know its not easy to change ones thinking on things they've been convinced of we all make changes when we want to do what's right. I myself enjoy science and just like they've taught us in science you experiment and you test. To me science is the study of life and the world around us and I believe firmly that you won't get a complete picture with science if you don't include God. Anyway enjoyed the convo have a good one :)

[xyjah]

Sorry I should not have said his name wasn't directly mentioned as I was referring to him being called Jesus not what it was prophesied his name would be. John 1:1 require research in the greek language. Some Bibles translate this scripture as "and the word was a god" or "god like" the reason being that the greek language does not have a definite article but is assumed by those reading. This scripture can be contested based on translation. Also Rev. 1:1 shows God and Jesus as sep entities

[skatetdieu]

so who is Isa. talking about if it isn't about Jesus?

here is more prove titus 2:13 "looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great GOD AND Savior Jesus Christ,"

john 5:20 "And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

I will get Holy Spirit verses soon. I just have to have time and to remember.

[xyjah]

I'm reading your scriptures and they do not tell me that Jesus is God. In each scripture it makes a distinction between Jesus AND God. Titus 2:13 says .."of the great God and of the savior of us Jesus Christ" John tells us that we "...are in union with the true one by means of his son Jesus Christ..." again a distinction.

Rev. 1:1 -"a revelation by Jesus Christ which God gave him..."

John 14:31 "..I am going my way to the Father because the Father is greater then I am"

[skatetdieu]

titus does not say the great God and the of the savior Jesus. For that does mean distinction. It says this is the great God AND savior, Jesus. No separation. Calling Jesus God and savior.

The other verse also says Jesus is God. Jesus came to show us who Him who is true. Jesus is who is true. "This [Jesus] is the true God and eternal life". Follow it now?

Another prove is that if Jesus wasn't God He would not have had accepted worship from people as he did. For only God can be worshiped.

[xyjah]

We will have to disagree on the scriptures as that is what my translation of the Bible says as I quoted it word for word.

Also Jesus did not accept worship or even an attempt to be made king. If you recall when the Jews were going make Jesus King withdrew from them John 6:14,15. Also I already gave the scripture at John 14:31. Phil 2:5-11 tells us that Jesus never gave thought that he was equal to God (his Father) and humbled himself as far as death after which God gave him a superior position

[skatetdieu]

I would say read several translations of the Bible and read how they came to be. I do not think every Bible is correct.

Now read Rev. 19:10 & 20:4, John tries to worship an angel and is told to worship God only. Apostles worship Jesus Luke 24:52 & Matthew 28:9. Even the demoniac worshiped Jesus in Mark 5:6. Jews wanted to kill Jesus for forgiving sin or doing things that only God has a right to in Luke 5:21 & Joh 10:33. Apostle Thomas called Jesus God in John 20:28.

Look them up!!

[xyjah]

I agree with you that not all Bible translations are correct because a number of them are changed even the King James Version. Rev 19:10&20:4 makes sense it does not mention Jesus here as being God. Luke and Matt. definition for obeisance. The Pharisees are the last persons to quote as they were trying to kill Jesus period so they would say anything John 20:28 Jesus is still God's son making him divine. Look up John 20:17,31 ; Rev. 3:12 Jesus speaks of "his" God.Respond to scriptures as I've u

[PwndByTheFed]

see the lyrics to Merry Go ByeBye by Mr. Bungle

[BamaKattt]

where is part 8?

[skatetdieu]

the maker of these videos contacted youtube and had like 6 parts blocked, I will try to upload it soon