Christians can't commit suicide, in the same way no Christian will go and commit a murder on the last hour of his life. The Holy Spirit in a Christian would not allow it, just like He won't allow a saved believer to fall away.
Quote: "We all know that he deserves the wrath of god and will experience it, but what we must keep our focus on is; God is Just, God is good, God does not do anything that we will not ultimately approve some day."
"We all know that he deserves the wrath of The Fuhrer and will experience it, but what we must keep our focus on is; The Fuhrer is Just, The Fuhrer is good, The Fuhrer does not do anything that we will not ultimately approve some day."
@NoTrueFace1 I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I just want the religious to realise that can no longer expect the unopposed freedom to railroad their superstitions over everybody that they have enjoyed for the last 1700 yrs or so, without being challenged to prove them.
That's all well and good, but you should try to make some sort of point with your posts. Otherwise you risk coming off as an asshole and an attention seeker.
@NoTrueFace1 The fact that most of your comments to most people on here boil down to personal attacks, I think it is you who runs the risk of coming over as asshole and attention seeker.
@Darwinsman personal attacks? not once. my last comment towards you COULD be taken that way if you wanted to be really sensitive, but there's nothing else I've said that even comes close.
@NoTrueFace1 Of course you didn't. After all, I've realised that, through reading your many comments, that you are always right, (at least in your own mind). So who am I, a mere mortal, to argue against the great sage.
I'm opinionated yes, and perhaps a tad stubborn, but I'm certainly open to persuasion. I have no hostility towards you and do not understand yours.
I should mention that any comments of mine which you may see on other pages do not necessarily reflect my real opinions, and a few of them may not even really be mine. Just in case that's the issue.
@NoTrueFace1 Quote: !any comments of mine which you may see on other pages do not necessarily reflect my real opinions, and a few of them may not even really be mine."
That's where we differ. Anything I say on here is always my own belief. I don't see the point of saying otherwise. That would be arguing just for the sake of argument. Don't you think that is being slightly dishonest?
There are a lot of reasons for it. Sometimes I do it to study reactions and learn about humanity. Sometimes I pretend to agree with a person's overall philosophy in order to make them think i'm an ally. From that position I may get them to rethink a few small things, where if they'd labeled me as being on the other team they'd likely turn a deaf ear.
@NoTrueFace1 My reasons for being on here is to try to understand the religious mind and also let them know they can no longer expect the sort of polite acceptance that they've enjoyed for centuries.
I was born into a deeply religious family, so I understand how belief can start, but it still intrigues me why, with all the evidence today, adults don't grow out of it, like they grow out of Santa Claus. That is why I think complete honesty is important. If I'm not, I can't expect it from them.
It is largely based in fears which are so old that they've forgotten that they have them. There is also an instinctual feeling that the world must have purpose in man. The deeply devout can experiance certain feelings that seem beyond this world. Even after having left the faith and knowing what I now know about psychology, I still have trouble believing that there wasn't SOMETHING supernatural going on when I used to pray.
@NoTrueFace1 That is a very interesting statement. I don't know if you have read Dan Barker's book, "Godless". In it he says that even today he can get his mind into the state of "feeling the presence of God", as he used to feel when he was a preacher. I know exactly what he means. Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?
@NoTrueFace1 If you do in fact have an insight on human psychology, depending on the extent of that insight, you already know that such vivid "supernatural" feelings or experiences are what the mind is best at. You already know that everything you experienced was nothing more than the mind doing what it does under certain circumstances.
I have a couple semesters of psychology and a little amateur self education. It's enough to know many of the ways that the human brain can dellude itself and to know how powerful those feelings can be
Yet, it was just too much, and too different. it's not like it was simply comfort or warmth or something on a massively greater scale than I've otherwise known. They were entirely new feelings for which there are no words, and there were ideas that were far beyond my inteligence.
@NoTrueFace1 Again, those are exactly the things I'd expect to hear. I have personally interviewed several different people with varying degrees of mental instability/delusion, and each time, it's the exact same thing. "I know it sounds crazy, but this was different..." It's always "different", it's always "beyond explanation". That's because a normally-functioning brain doesn't experience those things. But in the end, it's all 100% explainable (even if not readily) through psychology.
well, when one starts from the premise that there CAN'T be anything supernatural, then one runs the risk of labeling actual evidence of it as typical delusional patterns. It is of course difficult to prove you wrong though.
May I ask what you do that had you interviewing such people?
@NoTrueFace1 "Supernatural", by it's very definition, is something beyond nature. Now, we could talk philosophical about that all day long, but from a scientific perspective, there is nothing "beyond nature". Therefore, when something occurs that appears, to our limited knowledge, to be "supernatural", we seek a scientific explanation for it.
As it turns out, every supposed "supernatural" occurance that baffled our ancestors has been explained through modern science. As a result, it stands
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) to reason that this trend will only continue. In the case of delusions, this is in fact occuring. That's why we don't attempt to "exorcise" epileptics anymore.
As for my interviews, I was a psychology student for some time and actively engaged with people as part of my own study.
well, then take "supernatural" a bit less literally. I've encountered and spoken to people who have encountered a lot of "supernatural" things. I do believe for instance, that many ghost encounters are more than delusions. I don't know WHAT they are. I expect that one day there will be a scientific explanation for all of it. I just think that this world is a little wilder than you expect.
@NoTrueFace1 Yes, but you see, a scientific explanation means that whatever is occuring is in fact natural. Not SUPERnatural. Everything that exists, exists inside of nature. If there can possibly be some things that exist outside of nature, by default, they are irrelevant to us, because we exist inside of nature ourselves. If such things can interact with us, they have entered our natural realm, thus rendering them "natural". If they are beyond that, they are irrelevant to us entirely.
An interesting and fairly reasonable view, but not an absolute one. If something outside of nature exists, how are you to presume knowledge of how it might relate to nature?
Though it seems to me that this conversation begins to loose relevence.
@NoTrueFace1 As humans, we can percieve the world only in the ways that we are able to. We interact with our environment (and it with us) based on the 5 senses. Remarkably, we've evolved to the point that we are now capable of imagining things that are beyond ourselves and beyond our environments. Our brains are now so good at this that some of us are able to percieve such things, even though they're not actually there.
This attribute is why we have the study of psychology, which explains
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
Hell is complete insanity. No sin merits hell. Hitler does not deserve hell. The MAN who created the idea of hell clearly had not seen the true beauty and purity of the human soul. Once you have glimpsed it, it changes your life. It is inspirational. We are all unique self creating works of art. Our flaws are superficial and counter to our true divine nature. Only ignorance could suggest that we should be destroyed or tortued for eternity.
@NoTrueFace1 Many of the people that do not believe in hell will be their, as said by a catholic saint. Of course, I doubt you are catholic so my reminder in null to your ears, seeing that most evangelicals have been blinded by the ravenous wolfs they call pastors, who have such enmity against christ's body, the catholic church. If you do open your eyes, which i pray you do, then it was an act of conversion conducted by the holy spirit.
I am an ex devout catholic. Ex, because I opened my eyes.
Hell is unjust, and the god who would create it unjust. All logic supports this. An unhindered human heart echoes this truth. No matter how great humanity may sin, torture and destruction accomplish nothing and there will always be a pure good in hte human soul that should never be destroyed if there is any other option.
@NoTrueFace1 Hell isn't unjust, IT'S VERY JUST AND WHAT OUR SINS MERIT. The problem with you evangelicals is you guys dont even have sound doctrines. Some of you guys dont even beleive in hell, did you know most of the people that say that are going their? No. You were never a devout catholic, that is a lie. If you were a cthlc you would have stayed in the church. that's the truth. But your not going to lsten since your pleasured in your litle world, chasing what your ears itch for, your heroin.
I am not an evangelical. I am not christian, clearly. I absolutely was a devout catholic. I know catholicism well enough to know that it says that ultimately only god knows who enters heaven or hell. It isn't for us to judge, and non catholics do get in.
Not that I'm concerned with that. Hell sounds better than a heaven under an evil god.
While they're alive you plead with them and for them, but after they're dead you have to let them go. Similar to how David responded to the life and death of his first child by Bathsheeba.
Piper says, "Babies are born DEAD", this Unbeliever was brought into existance INVOLUNTARILY DEAD from the womb with a ZERO ability to repent or Beg for Mercy, as God had PREDESTINED & DECREED from the foundation of the world... that is after all the Doctrine of Total Depravity....he COULD NOT repent because GOD NEVER REGENERATED him to REPENT & left Him in the same condition as He had created Him & knit him together, DEAD. Why be inconsistent & mourn?
Someone is gone and all he cares about is whether or not they believed in his stupid death cult. He worships a god that thinks all people deserve eternal torture by default so his view of believer vs nonbeliever has over-written any other feeling he may have for the person. He can't possibly even think about what that person might have given the world. His religion has killed his humanity, made him a sociopath, his heart is completely cold. He preforms the funeral but he is the one that's dead.
John Piper didn't say anything wrong. I think that all of the people who are making negative comments here are mad because they know John Piper is right, and if they do not take Christ to be their Lord and Savior, they too are going to perish.
If God is just, he will make himself known until the final breath of a person, how can you say to a parent who lost a son that "apparently" never repented that he will go to hell and experience the wrath of God ? You don't know until the very end.
I don't think the existence of Jesus is questioned, many believe he was just a man. It's the son of God aspect and of course, the validity of his miracles that are questioned.
God is quoted as saying the sons are not responsible for the sins of their fathers. What God does also say is he will visit the initiquities of the fathers on therir children. He is speaking about generations and how the beliefs of the parents affect the beliefs of the children. For example, the 60s generation saw no problem with free love, and the fornicative lifestyle we see in their children, and even grandchildren today. Their inqiuities are visited even until today.
I guess the problem that the evidence for your beliefs is not there, is the big stumbling block when you want people to somehow find your assertions plausible ? As the observed evidence completely refutes your "holy book " you should not be too surprised if people reject it.
@ilikezappa What observed evidence refutes scripture? Scripture has been seen to be fulfilled. Scritpure has been seen to be honest. I am not surprised people reject it, people don't like it and being at heart liars they don't want it to be true. You don't want Jesus to have died for your sins probably, and the reason would likely be because you want to live by your own rules. Aware of it or not that's pretty well the way things go.
@RevGreen1 What observed evidence refutes scripture? Any scholarly inquiry into the book of Genesis will see that it is wrong about the order of creation ,and a knowledge of Biology will show you that the evidence for modern species having common ancestors is overwhelming. Talking serpents do not appear in the fossil record ,and the temporal stratification of fossils and the geographical distribution of modern species make the idea of Noah`s Ark absurd ( to be generous).
@ilikezappa The order of creation is in accord with the scientific thought! And there is no evidence for common ancestors at all! They keep promising to find the fossils, but they never do! I am reading a book by Dawkins atm - he makes great claims and then says eventually the fossil record to prove them will turn up! Look in to it!
@RevGreen1 The fossil record refutes the great flood entirely ,as there is temporal stratification . Are you proposing that after the waters subsided ,all the dead animals buried themselves in different rock layers ,just to fool us? The flood idea is not supported by the Geological record ,or Physics ,which can find no mechanism for producing that amount of water. Where did it all go after ? Did God make a giant plughole? The whole idea is pitiful. Stop getting your science from priests.
We don't know the lay of the land before the Flood. If you read the account in Genesis the water receded and left dry land. We know there are a great many underground lakes and rivers today. As for the fossils, where they are found they lay in layers that would be natural for a flood to have happened. As for science from priests, that is pitiful. Many qualified scientists believe there was a Flood as Genesis records. The Geological record is reckoned by circular reasoning.
@RevGreen1 No ,you would find Dinosaur fossils with Human ones. Trilobites with Mastodon. You don`t. They are found in separate rocks. Find me a Nobel Prize winning geologist who has any time for "The Global Flood". Where did the water "recede"? It was covering the Earth to a level of 28000 feet above the sea level we see today.Your underground lake thing is impossible. The erosion patterns are different in the Appalachians than the Rockies. This would not be the case either. Try again Rev.
@ilikezappa There are large herds of dinasaur fossils that can only be explained by the Flood. As for Prize winning geologists, you will know that scientists who don't tow the accepted line lose their funding. As for the height of the water, the old world was nothing like this world. It may have had no real mountains. There is a biblical prophesy that people in the Last Days will deny the Flood, they will not acknowledge the old world was completely destroyed by water.
@RevGreen1 You ignored my point about the separation of different fossils I see. So 6000 years ago there were no mountains either ? ooook. Thanks for telling me there is a biblical prophesy that people will think the bible is wrong. I could have told you that . Pretty obvious if you claim trees existed before the sun.
@RevGreen1This creationism requires some dismal denial of some truths that have all the evidence. You have to resort to some desparate ploys,like claiming it is funding that stops scientists from giving up empirical research and invoking supernatural processes. All the worlds Biologists are desperate to include Noah into their Molecular Phylogenetics ?? Look yourself in the mirror and ask if you are being honest fellah
John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written"
Such a bold statement considering there are no first hand written accounts of the miracles of Christ. There is no documentation by anyone who has ever been healed by Christ by their own hand!! It's all "there was a certain blind man" or " there was a certain woman" stories handed town to the gospel writers.
@cumbco And there is nothing contemporary denying these things either. We would expect a lot of denial in literature of the day if the stories of Jesus were not true. If you read the Gospel of Luke and Acts you will read that things were recorded by people which is where he got most of his sources in his Gospel.
@RevGreen1 Once again, there are no first hand written accounts recorded by anyone who was alive at the time of Jesus. Here was a man walking around the Judea countyside healing people, raising the dead yet NOBODY thought to write it down..not even the Romans who ruled Judea, and we are told Jesus popularity spread far and wide? Luke says "many have undertaken" yet he cites no sources.
Matt 27: 52,53..dead people are walking around the city and once again nobody decided to record it!
@cumbco There are mentions of it in a couple of fragments by historians of the day. There is very little surviving material from those days - apart from scripture itself. Luke claimed to have spoken with first hand witnesses and borrowed writings/diary entries. Sure, next to nothing remains. But you would expect enemies of Christianity to refute the claims and no one did. SO that is just as valid, if not more of an argument. Consider the holocaust for eg.
@RevGreen1 The enemies of Islam don't refute their claims, as with Hinduism, Buddhisum..every follower of their respective religions believes with whole heart that theirs is the truth and would die for it. What makes yours TRUTH and theirs not?
@cumbco Christians don't recognise Muhammad as a true prophet, or Krishna, or Bhudda. There's nothing to refute that Muhammad lived, because, like Jesus their existence was never questioned. World religions are all about people being good to be saved; but the Christian Gospel is different to everything out there. The Christian message is no one is good and so God had to make the effort to save us. That is the key difference. That is why I am a Christian.
To you God is silent and unseen because you have no desire to seek diligently. If you seek with all your heart and mind in repentence you will know. God rewards those who earnestly seek him.
@RevGreen1 Nice excuse!!! When one has no proof, out comes the old argument "It's up to you to find Him" Really? And how do you know when you've found Him? Let me guess "You'll feel it in your heart"
@cumbco I think if you do a real look at the BIble from educated evangelical scholars, the evidence for the Bible being a reliable documentary of God redeeming man you have a lot more than a fuzzy feeling in the heart. Evangelicals know they are sinners. The Bible makes plain all men are sinners and need the redeeming power of Christ at the cross. The whole Bible, OT and NT, points to this historic event.
@RevGreen1 But yes, when you know God Almighty accepts you, there is a terrific joy . It is up to every individual to seek God, all men are called to do so. God doesn't owe you anything.
@RevGreen1 How do you seek with your heart? My heart is a muscle organ full of larger veins that has a rhythmic contraction to pump blood through my body. I have never met a real Christian, do they have different hearts? Can I seek with my other veins or muscles? How can I seek with parts of my body?
@RevGreen1 I was being sarcastic. Seeking with your heart is an expression. Heart isn't an actual organ you feel stuff with. How I know this? One word, heart transplants. We would have thousands of peoples with other peoples thoughts otherwise. There is however a concept of "cellular memory" that transplant patients experience sometimes, still this is not the norm and happens to all organs beside the heart.
@RevGreen1 Because I believe you think "I felt it in my heart" is a valid thing. Or "trust your heart" is a literally understood thing like many Christians do.
@scrap222666 I think you misunderstand some things. We know in our heart, yes, but it is also a knowledge of scripture being correct and speaking for us. I know I cannot save myself, I am not a 'good' person. The Bible tells me no one is good, our righteousness is but filthy rags before God Almighty. So there are things we know to be true, mentally, but it is also heartfelt. If you fall in love you will know in your mind and heart. Must give our all to God, heart & mind & soul
@RevGreen1 Well I don't know about you but my morality tells me the son or daughter is not responsible for the sins of his parents. "Heartfelt" is again very ambigious term. I hope I get it right that you indeed know "hearthfelt" is still an expression and our brain is the reason we feel emotions. Even "mind" as such is not a real thing, it's still our brain.
I see nothing to repent for, but my mind is open. Pride does not cloud my mind. There is nothing I desire more than truth, and for it I would sacrifice all in an instant.
He remains silent and unseen. What is visible is humanity, and the good within us, which in my opinion would be lessed by bowing to a god, expsecially one as unjust as the christian one.
Jesus did not exist! If you done a little research you would find out that there is no written evidence if his existance, only in the sketchy gospel written by mark all real events were documented when he was supposed to be on earth, Why does he not appear on any of them? No mention of him in any other religion either! Only the truth is real. Millions believing a lie does not make it the truth. "The myth of jesus serves us well" Pope leo x.
You seem like a decent person, but to say that most of humanity will end up being tortured forever without cease is ok because we "deserve" it, is just insane . The sacrifice of Christ was a faliure because 99.9% of humanity is going to hell. You're ok with most of your friends and family being tortured forever? Could you deal with that for eternity?
@cumbco I'm not okay with my friends going to Hell. Not in the sense of "They don't deserve it" but in the sense that God feels "There's a way out and they denied it." Christ's sacrifice IS sufficient, it FULLY satisified God's anger toward us in order that WE may come to Him and find a FREE pardoning of our sins and adoption into His kingdom. The reason why people ultimately go to Hell is because they will not come to Him to find mercy because they want to save themselves.
@cumbco You have no concept of God's justice and wrath. God sends people to Hell because they are criminals (1 John 3:4) and we have sinful crimes that must have justice upon them. The problem is that you don't want to believe that because you and I are those criminals. God is THAT Holy, righteous, perfect and good and our sins are THAT wicked, vile and evil. But God in love slew His Son on our behalf in order to justly forgive us.
@RonMaday Thats ok Ron...I really want nothing to do with a God who tortures his creation. Pretty sad that the only way He can win people over is through threats of unending punishment.
@cumbco He doesn't win over people by threats. He wins them over by grace. The only way, however, for that grace of God shown in Christ can every truly be enjoyed is by understanding the fact that a just God satisfied His wrath towards us in His Son. The Father and the Son willingly and mutually agreed to this so that He can save sinners and justly love them forever and us to Him. Something that you will never understand apart from God saving you and showing you.
@RonMaday "He dosen't win over people by threats" Oh really?? Be honest Ron...why are you a Christian? Because the threat of hellfire looms over you...you will do anything you can do to not end up in this torture chamber, it has nothing to do with loving God. Considering 3/4 of humanity has never accepted Christ or even heard of him, I guess most will end up in hell...which is ok for holier than thou types such as yourself...you take great pleasure in the torture of non- christians don't you?
@cumbco I came to Christ yes, because of a fear of what I deserved. But I also, by His grace came because of His grace. That there was full pardon and a just love and sonship in Him. And friend, that's where you miss the mark: "You will do anything you can do to not end up in this torture chamber" I can't do ANYTHING to save myself from that. I need to give up on MYSELF and trust what JESUS did on the cross to save me. And yes, most will end up in Hell and get what we ALL deserve.
@cumbco But with that said, we do NOT enjoy the fact that many perish but we do love God and agree with what has happened because He is just. But the Bible says that God does NOT wish that the wicked should perish, Google those verses. But why doesn't God stop it? Because of free will. Men are so hell-bent and God hating that they can NOT come to Him because THEY will NOT come to Him. The problem is our faults. God can FREELY forgive anyone, but they wont come because they love SIN.
@RonMaday And why does God tell you to love your enemies? While He tortures His in hell? It's safe to say you and I will agree to disagree...but I find Christians love to point the finger at us (non Christians) and judge us and slander us. But I'll quote you a passage from your on Bible on the absurdity of free will..
Romans 8:20 "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly"...no freewill
@cumbco Friend, God is PUNISHING CRIMINALS in Hell. ALL of us are sinful criminals and until you accept that you will never come to God through Christ to find mercy and forgiveness. God wants us to love our enemies because He loved His enough to call us all to repentance to find mercy but only few will. We do have free will, but not the means to do good. That verse is correct. We have a free will but only to do one evil over another. It's only by Grace can we do good.
@RonMaday So Satan( who caused the downfall of mankind) was more successful than Christ( who came to save mankind) because 99% of humanity will end up in hellfire.....I guess God must be happy Christ's sacrifice saved 1% of His creation...sounds like an epic fail to me!!
That arrogant, heartless mother fucker! Telling a family who's just lost their son that he deserves the wrath of god, and will face it. This is why sadistic religions like Christianity should end.
@spaz3586 That arrogant, heartless mother fucker! Telling a family who's just lost their son that he deserves the wrath of god, and will face it... Man you don`t understand god `s lov or justice , LOL LOL !! If there is no hell god should create one for barbarians like this John Piper.
This is so true but so sad . I feel pure love for all nonbelievers when I think of eternal seperation from God. That is why there is nothing more important than witnessing . Tell your friend pray & be strong so that you can help spread the truth.
This just goes to show what a twisted ideology Christian exclusivism is. Deep down, many exclusivists seem to harbor a suspicion that it's fundamentally screwed up, but they can't bring themselves to properly realize one of their basic beliefs--and what they consider a foundational tenet of Christianity itself--is flat-out evil. It's sad to see this lie bring such grief to people like John Piper, who I think is a good man with deeply misguided beliefs that he pointlessly tries to rationalize.
@ElmerAwesome THAT picture of God is not a good judge. Back when I was a Christian, I was a Universalist. I believed that because God's justice was perfect, and that ***eternal damnation was absolutely incompatible with perfect justice*** (Eternal damnation, ESPECIALLY if the criteria is whether a person is lucky enough to believe in the right things or not, is evil), this surely meant God would NEVER do such a horrible thing. I knew that must be true, years before I stopped believing in God.
@Megaritz The bible tells that the peoples who have not been thought the gospel will be judged on their deeds and their treatment of "Jesus Brothers". Aswell as Paul says people's conscience can become their laws with the lack of the true law. So the bible doesn't say as easiy "your all going to hell" thats what the people think who haven't really searched Christ nor get to study their faith. Jesus ís the only way to the father; but to say all others will burn is to God and to Him alone.
@ElmerAwesome If you disagree with the teaching that all non-Christians go to Hell, that's all well and good in my opinion, and I appreciate it. I hope you understand how someone would prefer the discourse and company of people who don't believe they're eternally damned. A huge number of Christians DO believe in this idea (often called Christian "particularism" or "exclusivism"), however, which I think is unfortunate.
@ElmerAwesome If you disagree with the teaching that all non-Christians go to Hell, that's all well and good in my opinion, and I appreciate it. I hope you understand how someone would prefer the discourse and company of people who don't believe they're eternally damned. A huge number of Christians DO believe in this idea (often called Christian "particularism" or "exclusivism"), however, which I think is unfortunate.
@qwasc Yes. That's exactly what he should say, even if he does believe the contrary. The dead are already gone. Funerals are for the living. He needs to be making the kid's family feel better, especially if they're trusting him as a spiritual leader. I'm not a Christian, but as far as I can tell the loving-healer aspect of Jesus would be appalled by this insensitivity.
@Palantinius Actually no, all of them use the Bible in part, but all of the systems you listed have an organisational authority that defines what they believe.
The main doctrine of the Bible is very very clear and is not open to interpretation. There are a few things however which are not detrimental to your salvation which can be (within the context of the bible) interpreted differently. Atonement being one of them.
sounded to me that he was being as gentle as he possibly could under the circumstances. My best friend in college died unsaved,I was unsaved at the time and always looked forward to seeing him again in heaven.That was many years ago and Ive since become a Christian.It makes me sad to think we probrably will not meet again,but then I think maybe God chose to save him in his last moments....I guess we can only wait and see.
@happylazymartha Although I am not a Christian myself (and therefore am unsaved under your interpretation of the Bible) I would encourage you to look into its inclusivist interpretations and the reasoned support many have provided for them. I consider that a belief which forces you to mourn the eternal judgment of a loved one--forever--is cruel, while a belief which leads you to not CARE about them anymore is dehumanizing. I say this not to belittle your faith, but to support you as a person.
Although I think his belifs here are perverse and sick, I do believe his statements are well intentioned and he's only being honest. That being said, I don't think it was necessary for him to say the man would be suffering God's wrath, everyone there already believed that and the purpose of a funeral is to mourn and or honor the dead, why would they even have him do the funeral of a so-called "Pagan"
Feel free to delete my other comment this one is more complete. The only person more sick than one that believes all of mankind deserves to be excruciatingly tortured forever is one who believes their loved ones deserve the same thing and rejoice in it.
It's a shame that a Desiring God conference is held at a church of who's leading pastor Rick Warren leads people away from sound doctrine. A pastor who uses " The Message" in his bestseller. A bilble "translation" with the phrase As above So below
A well known occult phrase. It comes down to pantheism
But Jesus said
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. People do your research, it's the least you can do for you eternal destanation
You have to straight with people. Say whay the bible says and be done with it. If the word of God puts that person in hell, there is nothing you can do about it. Dont sugar coat it. The bible says God is just and he is fair. So that person had ample time to repent. If they chose not to, thats there problem. I know that sounds rough, but thats why the bile says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. If you preach the word sir, preach the WHOLE word.
@tbursee Not sure if you were replying to somebody else, but if you're referring to what John Piper said, I think he did preach the whole word. "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" can be taken in two ways. The first is in avoidance of the truth. The second is the way Piper used it at the funeral, to implore the listeners to have faith in God. The brother of the woman was damned, and while we will grieve, we must remember that the Lord is just and constant.
@suspendedanimation Well we cant put people in heaven or hell, unless you were there to see them repent before they died. But if someone was a obvious heathen, the the answer is clear. What does the bible say about people who die outside of God? Well , if your 94 year old grand mother , who never hurt a flea, died outside of God, then your grand mother is going to hell, bottom line.
@tbursee You do realize that there are countless ways to interpret the bible, and that there are countless variations of Christianity, and that there are other religions besides Christianity, right? So there really is no way to be "straight" with people. All you can do is give your OPINION. Everyone deserves respect regardless of their beliefs. The next time you think you're doing someone a favor by not sugar coating "the truth," just know that you might come across to them as a heartless jerk.
@ILNY83 no there are not countless ways to interpret the bible. that would mean that God starts confusion. The bible sayd that the holy spirit illuminates God's words , and breaks it down so you can understand it, the same way teeth and salvia break down food so you can digest it . People dont have the holy ghost, thats why they dont understand the bible. So they make up an understanding they can live with, and call it their interpretation.
@tbursee I fear you're serious, but my mind can't fathom how you can be. Why do you think there are so many sects of Christianity - Catholicism, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Universalist, etc etc etc.? Because people interpret the bible differently. I've never met two people who agree 100% on the teachings of the bible. It always amazes me which parts of the bible people skip over. Like the part that tells you to be humble. This might be news to you, but your opinion COULD be wrong. *gasp*
How come so many "bible-believing" "spirit-filled" denominations and people radically disagree with eachother, how can you determine who has the Holy Spirit? Experience? Catholics claim to experience the Holy Spirit, yet most Evangelicals consider them heretical pagans? Is their interpretation correct? The spirit tells them it is? If subjective experience is your means of Biblical interpretation, than you have pure chaos because everyone can interepet according to his experience.
@redcommander27 well thereis no such thing as a denomination inthe bible. Denominations are man made and created solely out of disagreement and politics. They have no credibility at all. The bible says that the holy spirit interprets the word. The letter kills the bible says , bt the spirit gives light. You wull never understand the word of God with the spirit that goes along with it . Unfortunately , word and no spirit is most people only example of what they believe is church, so they dont go
Okay forget denominations, let's talk believers. All devout believers claim to be spirit-filled, yet many of them consider eachother heretics. For example, Oneness Pentacostals deny the Trinity, and yet they are extremely devout and claim to be spirit-filled, if they claim to experience the Holy Spirit and it contradicts your witness of the Holy Spirit, you have no means of disproving them.
This man seems nice enough, but obviously he was the wrong person for the job. Why didn't a Pagan do the service? When someone speaks at a funeral, their job is to try and ease the minds of those who are grieving. This man failed. I'm a Christian and this video makes me very uncomfortable. What happened to not judging? To tell a room full of crying, weeping people that their loved one is absolutely burning in hell... it seems rather sadistic to me and not very Christ-like.
@ILNY83 I do agree with you on all but one point. Piper eludes to the fact that he DOES NOT like doing funerals for those who are not Christians, and for circumstances we don't know, was stuck in doing this one.
The only thing I disagree with is the "christ-like statement. Jesus was a straight shooter, and told it like it was. Jesus's love for people, wasn't telling them what they want to hear but what they need to hear.
Truthfully, unless asked, I wouldn't have said anything. I would coward.
that is not what he said. he didn't tell them that the guy was gonna burn in hell. He told them that God is just, and he will judge everyone in a fair manner.
but at the same time, he could not have said that the guy is in heaven, because that is not what is promised to unbelievers in the bible.
@ILNY83 I think Piper spoke at the funeral because he had the opportunity to comfort the member of his congregation whose brother had passed away. Also, I don't think Piper is judging. The woman's brother was unrepentant and the Bible is clear on his fate. Piper's use of "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" seeks to comfort those grieving by reminding them that God is just, that we must cling to him and trust in his good purpose, especially in times like these.
@suspendedanimation Which is a Christian belief and opinion, not a fact. The person who passed away was NOT a Christian. Therefore HIS wishes and beliefs should have been respected by his family, friends, and whoever performed the service. If John Piper could not or would not alter his beliefs for the sake of the person who passed away, which is his right, then he should NOT have taken the job. If your religious beliefs can't be respected at your own funeral, then something is serious wrong.
@ILNY83 I do believe, however, that if that man really went to hell because of his rejection of Jesus, he would want everyone of his friends and family to hear the warning to do what the bible says to avoid that place. It may seem insensitive that J. Piper would speak about his being lost; but I think it was actually the kindest thing he could have done to those left behind, if they were also not believers-if he told them how to be saved.
@suspendedanimation Which is a Christian belief and opinion, NOT a fact. The person who passed away was NOT a Christian. Therefore HIS wishes and beliefs should have been respected by his family, friends, and whoever performed the service. If John Piper could not or would not alter his beliefs for the sake of the person who passed away, which is his right, then he should NOT have taken the job. If your religious beliefs can't be respected at your own funeral, then something is seriously wrong.
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Philippians 4:5
Atlast some one who writes comments with gentleness. I'm really sad that some Christians reply to those who attack our faith with harsh words. Thank you brother for making your gentleness evident! God bless!
I think the only way to deal with the death of an unsaved loved one is to love God with all your heart and strength and mind and put HIM first in your life and love. And when you do that God will give you the desires of HIS own heart and that is that justice will must satisfied and righteousness will be done. You'll start seeing that loved ones death and a satisfaction of justice instead of a loss. You'll see that God is glorified in it and you'll rejoice because of it.
Christianity... the belief that an all powerful Jewish Zombie can help you avoid being tortured forever.You must eat crackers and wine that turn into his flesh and telepathically tell him you are a worthless piece of crap and deserve eternal torture (eventhough he made you).This is because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat a forbidden fruit which placed a curse on all our souls. Dont worry though, he sacrificed himself to himself, in order to break the curse.
@TheCarydal No body.... NO BODY deserves to be tortured forever... Its too bad that you have been brainwashed so much as to not see your morality being warped by this stone aged belief system which spread only because of its ability to control minds..... If there is a god, I'm sure that he is not as evil and petty as the one you worship.... Is there anything your child could do which would make you torture it forever in the basement and call it moral in doing so? Stop trying to justify evil.
@SalvationEternity777 Listen to you spout your mantra like a true brainwashed Christian... Is there anything your child can do, which would make you say that it deserves to be tortured forever???? Grow some balls and stand up to the immoral bullshit your religion is cramming down your throat.
But no one that will perish in their sins is a child of God.
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do...." (Jn 8:44a)
If you however continue to slander and cuss, you will be blocked. No questions asked.
I used to be like you man, I realized though that I was going to die and that really I've offended God. Don't continue in what I left off, you will assuredly regret it.
@SalvationEternity777 Sorry, but I am not afraid of your boogeyman..... If their is a god, I'm sure that having faith in a human sacrifice is NOT what he wants us to do.... Fear tactics work well on you I see...
Indeed it isn't. We don't just have faith in a mere human sacrifice. We have faith in the Son of God, both God and Man, who willingly laid His life down for His people, the elect.
And on the third day, He rose again and defeated death.
There's no fear of hell in me, although I fear what hell is, I don't fear the possibility now of me going there. Hey, I've been saved. Turn to Jesus.
@SalvationEternity777 You just don't get it... The fear of hell compelled you to believe!!! Well guess what, I'm not afraid of fairy tales.... BTW, calling Jesus the son of man or any other fancy cliche doesn't mean it wasn't a human sacrifice and a scape goat (where a tribe puts its sins and troubles on a goat and then drive it out of the village, this was once really practiced)
@tempemonkey2323 Christianity.... The belief that an all loving and all powerful cosmic Jewish Zombie, who was His own father, can make you live forever if you eat crackers and wine (that then turn into His flesh) while telepathically telling Him that you accept Him as your Master so He can remove an evil force from your soul that is present because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat the forbidden fruit of a magical tree....
watch?v=gQ9Y7ljeDLQ
Christians can't commit suicide, in the same way no Christian will go and commit a murder on the last hour of his life. The Holy Spirit in a Christian would not allow it, just like He won't allow a saved believer to fall away.
mikealike0732 1 day ago
@mikealike0732 I totally agree!
mignondee 4 hours ago
Quote: "We all know that he deserves the wrath of god and will experience it, but what we must keep our focus on is; God is Just, God is good, God does not do anything that we will not ultimately approve some day."
"We all know that he deserves the wrath of The Fuhrer and will experience it, but what we must keep our focus on is; The Fuhrer is Just, The Fuhrer is good, The Fuhrer does not do anything that we will not ultimately approve some day."
Where is the difference.
Darwinsman 2 weeks ago
Quote: "How do you deal with the death of an unsaved loved one?"
You grieve exactly the way you would if they were a believer.
As there is no Heaven or Hell, the grief is just the same for either.
Darwinsman 2 weeks ago
@Darwinsman
you could have said the exact same thing with much less typing by typing "I am an atheist".
Though personally I'd have opted for total silence because there is a 0% chance that your comment influenced anyone at all.
NoTrueFace1 2 weeks ago
@NoTrueFace1 I don't expect to change anyone's mind. I just want the religious to realise that can no longer expect the unopposed freedom to railroad their superstitions over everybody that they have enjoyed for the last 1700 yrs or so, without being challenged to prove them.
Darwinsman 2 weeks ago 3
@Darwinsman
That's all well and good, but you should try to make some sort of point with your posts. Otherwise you risk coming off as an asshole and an attention seeker.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 The fact that most of your comments to most people on here boil down to personal attacks, I think it is you who runs the risk of coming over as asshole and attention seeker.
Darwinsman 1 week ago
@Darwinsman personal attacks? not once. my last comment towards you COULD be taken that way if you wanted to be really sensitive, but there's nothing else I've said that even comes close.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 Of course you didn't. After all, I've realised that, through reading your many comments, that you are always right, (at least in your own mind). So who am I, a mere mortal, to argue against the great sage.
Darwinsman 1 week ago
@Darwinsman
I'm opinionated yes, and perhaps a tad stubborn, but I'm certainly open to persuasion. I have no hostility towards you and do not understand yours.
I should mention that any comments of mine which you may see on other pages do not necessarily reflect my real opinions, and a few of them may not even really be mine. Just in case that's the issue.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 Quote: !any comments of mine which you may see on other pages do not necessarily reflect my real opinions, and a few of them may not even really be mine."
That's where we differ. Anything I say on here is always my own belief. I don't see the point of saying otherwise. That would be arguing just for the sake of argument. Don't you think that is being slightly dishonest?
Darwinsman 1 week ago
@Darwinsman
There are a lot of reasons for it. Sometimes I do it to study reactions and learn about humanity. Sometimes I pretend to agree with a person's overall philosophy in order to make them think i'm an ally. From that position I may get them to rethink a few small things, where if they'd labeled me as being on the other team they'd likely turn a deaf ear.
Some of those posts are my younger brother's.
I'll promise honesty with you though.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 My reasons for being on here is to try to understand the religious mind and also let them know they can no longer expect the sort of polite acceptance that they've enjoyed for centuries.
I was born into a deeply religious family, so I understand how belief can start, but it still intrigues me why, with all the evidence today, adults don't grow out of it, like they grow out of Santa Claus. That is why I think complete honesty is important. If I'm not, I can't expect it from them.
Darwinsman 1 week ago
@Darwinsman
It is largely based in fears which are so old that they've forgotten that they have them. There is also an instinctual feeling that the world must have purpose in man. The deeply devout can experiance certain feelings that seem beyond this world. Even after having left the faith and knowing what I now know about psychology, I still have trouble believing that there wasn't SOMETHING supernatural going on when I used to pray.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 That is a very interesting statement. I don't know if you have read Dan Barker's book, "Godless". In it he says that even today he can get his mind into the state of "feeling the presence of God", as he used to feel when he was a preacher. I know exactly what he means. Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?
Darwinsman 1 week ago
@Darwinsman
I can't know what he experiances or if it has any similarity to what I did.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 If you do in fact have an insight on human psychology, depending on the extent of that insight, you already know that such vivid "supernatural" feelings or experiences are what the mind is best at. You already know that everything you experienced was nothing more than the mind doing what it does under certain circumstances.
Nothing more.
SeedsOfHatred 1 week ago
I have a couple semesters of psychology and a little amateur self education. It's enough to know many of the ways that the human brain can dellude itself and to know how powerful those feelings can be
Yet, it was just too much, and too different. it's not like it was simply comfort or warmth or something on a massively greater scale than I've otherwise known. They were entirely new feelings for which there are no words, and there were ideas that were far beyond my inteligence.
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 Again, those are exactly the things I'd expect to hear. I have personally interviewed several different people with varying degrees of mental instability/delusion, and each time, it's the exact same thing. "I know it sounds crazy, but this was different..." It's always "different", it's always "beyond explanation". That's because a normally-functioning brain doesn't experience those things. But in the end, it's all 100% explainable (even if not readily) through psychology.
SeedsOfHatred 1 week ago
@SeedsOfHatred
well, when one starts from the premise that there CAN'T be anything supernatural, then one runs the risk of labeling actual evidence of it as typical delusional patterns. It is of course difficult to prove you wrong though.
May I ask what you do that had you interviewing such people?
NoTrueFace1 1 week ago
@NoTrueFace1 "Supernatural", by it's very definition, is something beyond nature. Now, we could talk philosophical about that all day long, but from a scientific perspective, there is nothing "beyond nature". Therefore, when something occurs that appears, to our limited knowledge, to be "supernatural", we seek a scientific explanation for it.
As it turns out, every supposed "supernatural" occurance that baffled our ancestors has been explained through modern science. As a result, it stands
SeedsOfHatred 6 days ago
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) to reason that this trend will only continue. In the case of delusions, this is in fact occuring. That's why we don't attempt to "exorcise" epileptics anymore.
As for my interviews, I was a psychology student for some time and actively engaged with people as part of my own study.
SeedsOfHatred 6 days ago
@SeedsOfHatred
well, then take "supernatural" a bit less literally. I've encountered and spoken to people who have encountered a lot of "supernatural" things. I do believe for instance, that many ghost encounters are more than delusions. I don't know WHAT they are. I expect that one day there will be a scientific explanation for all of it. I just think that this world is a little wilder than you expect.
NoTrueFace1 6 days ago
@NoTrueFace1 Yes, but you see, a scientific explanation means that whatever is occuring is in fact natural. Not SUPERnatural. Everything that exists, exists inside of nature. If there can possibly be some things that exist outside of nature, by default, they are irrelevant to us, because we exist inside of nature ourselves. If such things can interact with us, they have entered our natural realm, thus rendering them "natural". If they are beyond that, they are irrelevant to us entirely.
SeedsOfHatred 5 days ago
@SeedsOfHatred
An interesting and fairly reasonable view, but not an absolute one. If something outside of nature exists, how are you to presume knowledge of how it might relate to nature?
Though it seems to me that this conversation begins to loose relevence.
NoTrueFace1 5 days ago
@NoTrueFace1 As humans, we can percieve the world only in the ways that we are able to. We interact with our environment (and it with us) based on the 5 senses. Remarkably, we've evolved to the point that we are now capable of imagining things that are beyond ourselves and beyond our environments. Our brains are now so good at this that some of us are able to percieve such things, even though they're not actually there.
This attribute is why we have the study of psychology, which explains
SeedsOfHatred 4 days ago
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) why we're able to do this.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
SeedsOfHatred 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) why we're able to do this.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
SeedsOfHatred 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) why we're able to do this.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
SeedsOfHatred 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NoTrueFace1 (Part 2) why we're able to do this.
The point being, so-called "supernatural" experiences come down to our imaginative, yet flawed perception of our world. Seeing and experiencing things that are not actually there to be seen or experienced. Ghosts, goblins, werewolves, devils and gods: all by-products of our highly-evolved, yet fallible brains. Nothing more.
SeedsOfHatred 4 days ago
Hell is complete insanity. No sin merits hell. Hitler does not deserve hell. The MAN who created the idea of hell clearly had not seen the true beauty and purity of the human soul. Once you have glimpsed it, it changes your life. It is inspirational. We are all unique self creating works of art. Our flaws are superficial and counter to our true divine nature. Only ignorance could suggest that we should be destroyed or tortued for eternity.
NoTrueFace1 3 weeks ago
@NoTrueFace1 Many of the people that do not believe in hell will be their, as said by a catholic saint. Of course, I doubt you are catholic so my reminder in null to your ears, seeing that most evangelicals have been blinded by the ravenous wolfs they call pastors, who have such enmity against christ's body, the catholic church. If you do open your eyes, which i pray you do, then it was an act of conversion conducted by the holy spirit.
Pax Christi, Peace of Christ.
MessengerNamedLove 2 weeks ago
@MessengerNamedLove
I am an ex devout catholic. Ex, because I opened my eyes.
Hell is unjust, and the god who would create it unjust. All logic supports this. An unhindered human heart echoes this truth. No matter how great humanity may sin, torture and destruction accomplish nothing and there will always be a pure good in hte human soul that should never be destroyed if there is any other option.
NoTrueFace1 2 weeks ago 2
@NoTrueFace1 Hell isn't unjust, IT'S VERY JUST AND WHAT OUR SINS MERIT. The problem with you evangelicals is you guys dont even have sound doctrines. Some of you guys dont even beleive in hell, did you know most of the people that say that are going their? No. You were never a devout catholic, that is a lie. If you were a cthlc you would have stayed in the church. that's the truth. But your not going to lsten since your pleasured in your litle world, chasing what your ears itch for, your heroin.
MessengerNamedLove 2 weeks ago
@MessengerNamedLove
I am not an evangelical. I am not christian, clearly. I absolutely was a devout catholic. I know catholicism well enough to know that it says that ultimately only god knows who enters heaven or hell. It isn't for us to judge, and non catholics do get in.
Not that I'm concerned with that. Hell sounds better than a heaven under an evil god.
NoTrueFace1 2 weeks ago
While they're alive you plead with them and for them, but after they're dead you have to let them go. Similar to how David responded to the life and death of his first child by Bathsheeba.
rredhawk 3 weeks ago
Piper says, "Babies are born DEAD", this Unbeliever was brought into existance INVOLUNTARILY DEAD from the womb with a ZERO ability to repent or Beg for Mercy, as God had PREDESTINED & DECREED from the foundation of the world... that is after all the Doctrine of Total Depravity....he COULD NOT repent because GOD NEVER REGENERATED him to REPENT & left Him in the same condition as He had created Him & knit him together, DEAD. Why be inconsistent & mourn?
GLORIFY YOUR GOD as he BURNS him FOREVER
Isaiah1v18 1 month ago
Someone is gone and all he cares about is whether or not they believed in his stupid death cult. He worships a god that thinks all people deserve eternal torture by default so his view of believer vs nonbeliever has over-written any other feeling he may have for the person. He can't possibly even think about what that person might have given the world. His religion has killed his humanity, made him a sociopath, his heart is completely cold. He preforms the funeral but he is the one that's dead.
CorndogMaker 1 month ago
John Piper didn't say anything wrong. I think that all of the people who are making negative comments here are mad because they know John Piper is right, and if they do not take Christ to be their Lord and Savior, they too are going to perish.
gilbertshea 1 month ago
This man comes across as a patronizing bigot in this video!
jagara1 2 months ago
If God is just, he will make himself known until the final breath of a person, how can you say to a parent who lost a son that "apparently" never repented that he will go to hell and experience the wrath of God ? You don't know until the very end.
LeRationnel27 2 months ago
We were all unbelievers at one time---"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief,that he might have mercy upon all."Romans11:32
741rjohnson 2 months ago
I don't think the existence of Jesus is questioned, many believe he was just a man. It's the son of God aspect and of course, the validity of his miracles that are questioned.
cumbco 2 months ago
God is quoted as saying the sons are not responsible for the sins of their fathers. What God does also say is he will visit the initiquities of the fathers on therir children. He is speaking about generations and how the beliefs of the parents affect the beliefs of the children. For example, the 60s generation saw no problem with free love, and the fornicative lifestyle we see in their children, and even grandchildren today. Their inqiuities are visited even until today.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
I guess the problem that the evidence for your beliefs is not there, is the big stumbling block when you want people to somehow find your assertions plausible ? As the observed evidence completely refutes your "holy book " you should not be too surprised if people reject it.
ilikezappa 2 months ago
@ilikezappa What observed evidence refutes scripture? Scripture has been seen to be fulfilled. Scritpure has been seen to be honest. I am not surprised people reject it, people don't like it and being at heart liars they don't want it to be true. You don't want Jesus to have died for your sins probably, and the reason would likely be because you want to live by your own rules. Aware of it or not that's pretty well the way things go.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 What observed evidence refutes scripture? Any scholarly inquiry into the book of Genesis will see that it is wrong about the order of creation ,and a knowledge of Biology will show you that the evidence for modern species having common ancestors is overwhelming. Talking serpents do not appear in the fossil record ,and the temporal stratification of fossils and the geographical distribution of modern species make the idea of Noah`s Ark absurd ( to be generous).
ilikezappa 2 months ago
@ilikezappa The order of creation is in accord with the scientific thought! And there is no evidence for common ancestors at all! They keep promising to find the fossils, but they never do! I am reading a book by Dawkins atm - he makes great claims and then says eventually the fossil record to prove them will turn up! Look in to it!
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@ilikezappa The fossil record is in accord with the Great Flood. Look into it. There is not the space for the arguments on this forum.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 The fossil record refutes the great flood entirely ,as there is temporal stratification . Are you proposing that after the waters subsided ,all the dead animals buried themselves in different rock layers ,just to fool us? The flood idea is not supported by the Geological record ,or Physics ,which can find no mechanism for producing that amount of water. Where did it all go after ? Did God make a giant plughole? The whole idea is pitiful. Stop getting your science from priests.
ilikezappa 2 months ago
We don't know the lay of the land before the Flood. If you read the account in Genesis the water receded and left dry land. We know there are a great many underground lakes and rivers today. As for the fossils, where they are found they lay in layers that would be natural for a flood to have happened. As for science from priests, that is pitiful. Many qualified scientists believe there was a Flood as Genesis records. The Geological record is reckoned by circular reasoning.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 No ,you would find Dinosaur fossils with Human ones. Trilobites with Mastodon. You don`t. They are found in separate rocks. Find me a Nobel Prize winning geologist who has any time for "The Global Flood". Where did the water "recede"? It was covering the Earth to a level of 28000 feet above the sea level we see today.Your underground lake thing is impossible. The erosion patterns are different in the Appalachians than the Rockies. This would not be the case either. Try again Rev.
ilikezappa 2 months ago
@ilikezappa There are large herds of dinasaur fossils that can only be explained by the Flood. As for Prize winning geologists, you will know that scientists who don't tow the accepted line lose their funding. As for the height of the water, the old world was nothing like this world. It may have had no real mountains. There is a biblical prophesy that people in the Last Days will deny the Flood, they will not acknowledge the old world was completely destroyed by water.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 You ignored my point about the separation of different fossils I see. So 6000 years ago there were no mountains either ? ooook. Thanks for telling me there is a biblical prophesy that people will think the bible is wrong. I could have told you that . Pretty obvious if you claim trees existed before the sun.
ilikezappa 2 months ago
@RevGreen1This creationism requires some dismal denial of some truths that have all the evidence. You have to resort to some desparate ploys,like claiming it is funding that stops scientists from giving up empirical research and invoking supernatural processes. All the worlds Biologists are desperate to include Noah into their Molecular Phylogenetics ?? Look yourself in the mirror and ask if you are being honest fellah
ilikezappa 2 months ago
"desperate" I wrote it out 100 times lol
ilikezappa 2 months ago
sorry..handed down
cumbco 2 months ago
John 21:25 "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written"
Such a bold statement considering there are no first hand written accounts of the miracles of Christ. There is no documentation by anyone who has ever been healed by Christ by their own hand!! It's all "there was a certain blind man" or " there was a certain woman" stories handed town to the gospel writers.
cumbco 2 months ago
@cumbco And there is nothing contemporary denying these things either. We would expect a lot of denial in literature of the day if the stories of Jesus were not true. If you read the Gospel of Luke and Acts you will read that things were recorded by people which is where he got most of his sources in his Gospel.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 Once again, there are no first hand written accounts recorded by anyone who was alive at the time of Jesus. Here was a man walking around the Judea countyside healing people, raising the dead yet NOBODY thought to write it down..not even the Romans who ruled Judea, and we are told Jesus popularity spread far and wide? Luke says "many have undertaken" yet he cites no sources.
Matt 27: 52,53..dead people are walking around the city and once again nobody decided to record it!
cumbco 2 months ago
@cumbco There are mentions of it in a couple of fragments by historians of the day. There is very little surviving material from those days - apart from scripture itself. Luke claimed to have spoken with first hand witnesses and borrowed writings/diary entries. Sure, next to nothing remains. But you would expect enemies of Christianity to refute the claims and no one did. SO that is just as valid, if not more of an argument. Consider the holocaust for eg.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 The enemies of Islam don't refute their claims, as with Hinduism, Buddhisum..every follower of their respective religions believes with whole heart that theirs is the truth and would die for it. What makes yours TRUTH and theirs not?
cumbco 2 months ago
@cumbco Christians don't recognise Muhammad as a true prophet, or Krishna, or Bhudda. There's nothing to refute that Muhammad lived, because, like Jesus their existence was never questioned. World religions are all about people being good to be saved; but the Christian Gospel is different to everything out there. The Christian message is no one is good and so God had to make the effort to save us. That is the key difference. That is why I am a Christian.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@cumbco The emporer of the day had a letter written to Judea with respect to Matt 27 - it was believed to be tomb robbing
RevGreen1 2 months ago
To you God is silent and unseen because you have no desire to seek diligently. If you seek with all your heart and mind in repentence you will know. God rewards those who earnestly seek him.
RevGreen1 2 months ago 7
@RevGreen1 Nice excuse!!! When one has no proof, out comes the old argument "It's up to you to find Him" Really? And how do you know when you've found Him? Let me guess "You'll feel it in your heart"
cumbco 2 months ago
@cumbco I think if you do a real look at the BIble from educated evangelical scholars, the evidence for the Bible being a reliable documentary of God redeeming man you have a lot more than a fuzzy feeling in the heart. Evangelicals know they are sinners. The Bible makes plain all men are sinners and need the redeeming power of Christ at the cross. The whole Bible, OT and NT, points to this historic event.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 But yes, when you know God Almighty accepts you, there is a terrific joy . It is up to every individual to seek God, all men are called to do so. God doesn't owe you anything.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 How do you seek with your heart? My heart is a muscle organ full of larger veins that has a rhythmic contraction to pump blood through my body. I have never met a real Christian, do they have different hearts? Can I seek with my other veins or muscles? How can I seek with parts of my body?
scrap222666 2 months ago
@scrap222666 I am sure you're being facetious. If you ever fall in love, you'll feel it in your heart.
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 I was being sarcastic. Seeking with your heart is an expression. Heart isn't an actual organ you feel stuff with. How I know this? One word, heart transplants. We would have thousands of peoples with other peoples thoughts otherwise. There is however a concept of "cellular memory" that transplant patients experience sometimes, still this is not the norm and happens to all organs beside the heart.
scrap222666 2 months ago
@scrap222666 So why are you telling me something everyone knows?
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 Because I believe you think "I felt it in my heart" is a valid thing. Or "trust your heart" is a literally understood thing like many Christians do.
scrap222666 2 months ago
@scrap222666 I think you misunderstand some things. We know in our heart, yes, but it is also a knowledge of scripture being correct and speaking for us. I know I cannot save myself, I am not a 'good' person. The Bible tells me no one is good, our righteousness is but filthy rags before God Almighty. So there are things we know to be true, mentally, but it is also heartfelt. If you fall in love you will know in your mind and heart. Must give our all to God, heart & mind & soul
RevGreen1 2 months ago
@RevGreen1 Well I don't know about you but my morality tells me the son or daughter is not responsible for the sins of his parents. "Heartfelt" is again very ambigious term. I hope I get it right that you indeed know "hearthfelt" is still an expression and our brain is the reason we feel emotions. Even "mind" as such is not a real thing, it's still our brain.
scrap222666 2 months ago
@RevGreen1
I see nothing to repent for, but my mind is open. Pride does not cloud my mind. There is nothing I desire more than truth, and for it I would sacrifice all in an instant.
He remains silent and unseen. What is visible is humanity, and the good within us, which in my opinion would be lessed by bowing to a god, expsecially one as unjust as the christian one.
NoTrueFace1 3 weeks ago
Jesus did not exist! If you done a little research you would find out that there is no written evidence if his existance, only in the sketchy gospel written by mark all real events were documented when he was supposed to be on earth, Why does he not appear on any of them? No mention of him in any other religion either! Only the truth is real. Millions believing a lie does not make it the truth. "The myth of jesus serves us well" Pope leo x.
Conoria 2 months ago
No, 99% of humanity (as you have it) are the losers, not God who calls all men to repent and believe in His Son for the forgiveness of sin.
RevGreen1 3 months ago
@RevGreen1 If God is so concerened with the salvation of humanity then where is He? Where is Jesus? Why are they silent and unseen??
cumbco 2 months ago
You seem like a decent person, but to say that most of humanity will end up being tortured forever without cease is ok because we "deserve" it, is just insane . The sacrifice of Christ was a faliure because 99.9% of humanity is going to hell. You're ok with most of your friends and family being tortured forever? Could you deal with that for eternity?
cumbco 3 months ago
@cumbco I'm not okay with my friends going to Hell. Not in the sense of "They don't deserve it" but in the sense that God feels "There's a way out and they denied it." Christ's sacrifice IS sufficient, it FULLY satisified God's anger toward us in order that WE may come to Him and find a FREE pardoning of our sins and adoption into His kingdom. The reason why people ultimately go to Hell is because they will not come to Him to find mercy because they want to save themselves.
RonMaday 3 months ago
Christanity is a lesson in hypocracy...."God loves you, but He may also torture you forever"
cumbco 3 months ago
@cumbco You have no concept of God's justice and wrath. God sends people to Hell because they are criminals (1 John 3:4) and we have sinful crimes that must have justice upon them. The problem is that you don't want to believe that because you and I are those criminals. God is THAT Holy, righteous, perfect and good and our sins are THAT wicked, vile and evil. But God in love slew His Son on our behalf in order to justly forgive us.
RonMaday 3 months ago
@RonMaday Thats ok Ron...I really want nothing to do with a God who tortures his creation. Pretty sad that the only way He can win people over is through threats of unending punishment.
cumbco 3 months ago
@cumbco He doesn't win over people by threats. He wins them over by grace. The only way, however, for that grace of God shown in Christ can every truly be enjoyed is by understanding the fact that a just God satisfied His wrath towards us in His Son. The Father and the Son willingly and mutually agreed to this so that He can save sinners and justly love them forever and us to Him. Something that you will never understand apart from God saving you and showing you.
RonMaday 3 months ago
@RonMaday "He dosen't win over people by threats" Oh really?? Be honest Ron...why are you a Christian? Because the threat of hellfire looms over you...you will do anything you can do to not end up in this torture chamber, it has nothing to do with loving God. Considering 3/4 of humanity has never accepted Christ or even heard of him, I guess most will end up in hell...which is ok for holier than thou types such as yourself...you take great pleasure in the torture of non- christians don't you?
cumbco 3 months ago
@cumbco I came to Christ yes, because of a fear of what I deserved. But I also, by His grace came because of His grace. That there was full pardon and a just love and sonship in Him. And friend, that's where you miss the mark: "You will do anything you can do to not end up in this torture chamber" I can't do ANYTHING to save myself from that. I need to give up on MYSELF and trust what JESUS did on the cross to save me. And yes, most will end up in Hell and get what we ALL deserve.
RonMaday 3 months ago
@cumbco But with that said, we do NOT enjoy the fact that many perish but we do love God and agree with what has happened because He is just. But the Bible says that God does NOT wish that the wicked should perish, Google those verses. But why doesn't God stop it? Because of free will. Men are so hell-bent and God hating that they can NOT come to Him because THEY will NOT come to Him. The problem is our faults. God can FREELY forgive anyone, but they wont come because they love SIN.
RonMaday 3 months ago
@RonMaday And why does God tell you to love your enemies? While He tortures His in hell? It's safe to say you and I will agree to disagree...but I find Christians love to point the finger at us (non Christians) and judge us and slander us. But I'll quote you a passage from your on Bible on the absurdity of free will..
Romans 8:20 "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly"...no freewill
cumbco 3 months ago
@cumbco Friend, God is PUNISHING CRIMINALS in Hell. ALL of us are sinful criminals and until you accept that you will never come to God through Christ to find mercy and forgiveness. God wants us to love our enemies because He loved His enough to call us all to repentance to find mercy but only few will. We do have free will, but not the means to do good. That verse is correct. We have a free will but only to do one evil over another. It's only by Grace can we do good.
RonMaday 3 months ago
@RonMaday So Satan( who caused the downfall of mankind) was more successful than Christ( who came to save mankind) because 99% of humanity will end up in hellfire.....I guess God must be happy Christ's sacrifice saved 1% of His creation...sounds like an epic fail to me!!
cumbco 3 months ago
That arrogant, heartless mother fucker! Telling a family who's just lost their son that he deserves the wrath of god, and will face it. This is why sadistic religions like Christianity should end.
spaz3586 4 months ago
@spaz3586 That arrogant, heartless mother fucker! Telling a family who's just lost their son that he deserves the wrath of god, and will face it... Man you don`t understand god `s lov or justice , LOL LOL !! If there is no hell god should create one for barbarians like this John Piper.
ndzoko 3 months ago
This is so true but so sad . I feel pure love for all nonbelievers when I think of eternal seperation from God. That is why there is nothing more important than witnessing . Tell your friend pray & be strong so that you can help spread the truth.
StelloLIVE 4 months ago
This just goes to show what a twisted ideology Christian exclusivism is. Deep down, many exclusivists seem to harbor a suspicion that it's fundamentally screwed up, but they can't bring themselves to properly realize one of their basic beliefs--and what they consider a foundational tenet of Christianity itself--is flat-out evil. It's sad to see this lie bring such grief to people like John Piper, who I think is a good man with deeply misguided beliefs that he pointlessly tries to rationalize.
Megaritz 6 months ago
@Megaritz You ignored his entire point of 'let God be the judge' congratz with that.
ElmerAwesome 5 months ago
@ElmerAwesome THAT picture of God is not a good judge. Back when I was a Christian, I was a Universalist. I believed that because God's justice was perfect, and that ***eternal damnation was absolutely incompatible with perfect justice*** (Eternal damnation, ESPECIALLY if the criteria is whether a person is lucky enough to believe in the right things or not, is evil), this surely meant God would NEVER do such a horrible thing. I knew that must be true, years before I stopped believing in God.
Megaritz 5 months ago
@Megaritz The bible tells that the peoples who have not been thought the gospel will be judged on their deeds and their treatment of "Jesus Brothers". Aswell as Paul says people's conscience can become their laws with the lack of the true law. So the bible doesn't say as easiy "your all going to hell" thats what the people think who haven't really searched Christ nor get to study their faith. Jesus ís the only way to the father; but to say all others will burn is to God and to Him alone.
ElmerAwesome 5 months ago
@ElmerAwesome If you disagree with the teaching that all non-Christians go to Hell, that's all well and good in my opinion, and I appreciate it. I hope you understand how someone would prefer the discourse and company of people who don't believe they're eternally damned. A huge number of Christians DO believe in this idea (often called Christian "particularism" or "exclusivism"), however, which I think is unfortunate.
Megaritz 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ElmerAwesome If you disagree with the teaching that all non-Christians go to Hell, that's all well and good in my opinion, and I appreciate it. I hope you understand how someone would prefer the discourse and company of people who don't believe they're eternally damned. A huge number of Christians DO believe in this idea (often called Christian "particularism" or "exclusivism"), however, which I think is unfortunate.
Megaritz 5 months ago
So you said at a funeral "yeah, he's going to hell, but someday we'll be ok with that?" Fuck you. That is supremely insensitive.
PookySharif 6 months ago
@PookySharif We will be is the thing. we have to realize God will do what is just...
xDSlimz 6 months ago
@PookySharif what do you want him to say? lie about that he is going to go to heaven and say he is having a good time there?
qwasc 4 months ago
@qwasc Yes. That's exactly what he should say, even if he does believe the contrary. The dead are already gone. Funerals are for the living. He needs to be making the kid's family feel better, especially if they're trusting him as a spiritual leader. I'm not a Christian, but as far as I can tell the loving-healer aspect of Jesus would be appalled by this insensitivity.
PookySharif 3 months ago
@Palantinius Actually no, all of them use the Bible in part, but all of the systems you listed have an organisational authority that defines what they believe.
Insaneplanetman 7 months ago
The main doctrine of the Bible is very very clear and is not open to interpretation. There are a few things however which are not detrimental to your salvation which can be (within the context of the bible) interpreted differently. Atonement being one of them.
maidenshazza 7 months ago
sounded to me that he was being as gentle as he possibly could under the circumstances. My best friend in college died unsaved,I was unsaved at the time and always looked forward to seeing him again in heaven.That was many years ago and Ive since become a Christian.It makes me sad to think we probrably will not meet again,but then I think maybe God chose to save him in his last moments....I guess we can only wait and see.
happylazymartha 8 months ago
@happylazymartha Although I am not a Christian myself (and therefore am unsaved under your interpretation of the Bible) I would encourage you to look into its inclusivist interpretations and the reasoned support many have provided for them. I consider that a belief which forces you to mourn the eternal judgment of a loved one--forever--is cruel, while a belief which leads you to not CARE about them anymore is dehumanizing. I say this not to belittle your faith, but to support you as a person.
Megaritz 6 months ago
Although I think his belifs here are perverse and sick, I do believe his statements are well intentioned and he's only being honest. That being said, I don't think it was necessary for him to say the man would be suffering God's wrath, everyone there already believed that and the purpose of a funeral is to mourn and or honor the dead, why would they even have him do the funeral of a so-called "Pagan"
redcommander27 10 months ago
Feel free to delete my other comment this one is more complete. The only person more sick than one that believes all of mankind deserves to be excruciatingly tortured forever is one who believes their loved ones deserve the same thing and rejoice in it.
redcommander27 10 months ago
Comment removed
redcommander27 10 months ago
Comment removed
redcommander27 11 months ago
If you actually WANT Christianity to be true, you must be a sociopath. God doesn't torture people.
gumboots44 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It's a shame that a Desiring God conference is held at a church of who's leading pastor Rick Warren leads people away from sound doctrine. A pastor who uses " The Message" in his bestseller. A bilble "translation" with the phrase As above So below
A well known occult phrase. It comes down to pantheism
But Jesus said
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. People do your research, it's the least you can do for you eternal destanation
LLThenu 11 months ago
You have to straight with people. Say whay the bible says and be done with it. If the word of God puts that person in hell, there is nothing you can do about it. Dont sugar coat it. The bible says God is just and he is fair. So that person had ample time to repent. If they chose not to, thats there problem. I know that sounds rough, but thats why the bile says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. If you preach the word sir, preach the WHOLE word.
tbursee 11 months ago
@tbursee Not sure if you were replying to somebody else, but if you're referring to what John Piper said, I think he did preach the whole word. "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" can be taken in two ways. The first is in avoidance of the truth. The second is the way Piper used it at the funeral, to implore the listeners to have faith in God. The brother of the woman was damned, and while we will grieve, we must remember that the Lord is just and constant.
suspendedanimation 11 months ago
@suspendedanimation Well we cant put people in heaven or hell, unless you were there to see them repent before they died. But if someone was a obvious heathen, the the answer is clear. What does the bible say about people who die outside of God? Well , if your 94 year old grand mother , who never hurt a flea, died outside of God, then your grand mother is going to hell, bottom line.
tbursee 11 months ago
@tbursee Yes and John Piper IS saying that. He IS preaching the WHOLE word. And he isn't sugar coating it either.
suspendedanimation 11 months ago
@tbursee You do realize that there are countless ways to interpret the bible, and that there are countless variations of Christianity, and that there are other religions besides Christianity, right? So there really is no way to be "straight" with people. All you can do is give your OPINION. Everyone deserves respect regardless of their beliefs. The next time you think you're doing someone a favor by not sugar coating "the truth," just know that you might come across to them as a heartless jerk.
ILNY83 9 months ago
@ILNY83 no there are not countless ways to interpret the bible. that would mean that God starts confusion. The bible sayd that the holy spirit illuminates God's words , and breaks it down so you can understand it, the same way teeth and salvia break down food so you can digest it . People dont have the holy ghost, thats why they dont understand the bible. So they make up an understanding they can live with, and call it their interpretation.
tbursee 9 months ago
@tbursee I fear you're serious, but my mind can't fathom how you can be. Why do you think there are so many sects of Christianity - Catholicism, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Universalist, etc etc etc.? Because people interpret the bible differently. I've never met two people who agree 100% on the teachings of the bible. It always amazes me which parts of the bible people skip over. Like the part that tells you to be humble. This might be news to you, but your opinion COULD be wrong. *gasp*
ILNY83 9 months ago
@tbursee
How come so many "bible-believing" "spirit-filled" denominations and people radically disagree with eachother, how can you determine who has the Holy Spirit? Experience? Catholics claim to experience the Holy Spirit, yet most Evangelicals consider them heretical pagans? Is their interpretation correct? The spirit tells them it is? If subjective experience is your means of Biblical interpretation, than you have pure chaos because everyone can interepet according to his experience.
redcommander27 7 months ago
@redcommander27 well thereis no such thing as a denomination inthe bible. Denominations are man made and created solely out of disagreement and politics. They have no credibility at all. The bible says that the holy spirit interprets the word. The letter kills the bible says , bt the spirit gives light. You wull never understand the word of God with the spirit that goes along with it . Unfortunately , word and no spirit is most people only example of what they believe is church, so they dont go
tbursee 7 months ago
@tbursee
Okay forget denominations, let's talk believers. All devout believers claim to be spirit-filled, yet many of them consider eachother heretics. For example, Oneness Pentacostals deny the Trinity, and yet they are extremely devout and claim to be spirit-filled, if they claim to experience the Holy Spirit and it contradicts your witness of the Holy Spirit, you have no means of disproving them.
redcommander27 7 months ago
For Christians: Just don't think about it, that is your biggest strength ...
SupremeChimp 11 months ago
Why even have pastors or priests at a funeral?
The ancient Israelites did not have Levites or Rabbis at their funerary events.
Dadutta 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wow... John Piper's got some nadz for saying that at a funeral... But as a Christian myself I can't say what he did was wrong, but it was harsh.
The Truth hurts.
FollowingChrist44 1 year ago 5
Comment removed
FollowingChrist44 1 year ago
This man seems nice enough, but obviously he was the wrong person for the job. Why didn't a Pagan do the service? When someone speaks at a funeral, their job is to try and ease the minds of those who are grieving. This man failed. I'm a Christian and this video makes me very uncomfortable. What happened to not judging? To tell a room full of crying, weeping people that their loved one is absolutely burning in hell... it seems rather sadistic to me and not very Christ-like.
ILNY83 1 year ago
@ILNY83 I do agree with you on all but one point. Piper eludes to the fact that he DOES NOT like doing funerals for those who are not Christians, and for circumstances we don't know, was stuck in doing this one.
The only thing I disagree with is the "christ-like statement. Jesus was a straight shooter, and told it like it was. Jesus's love for people, wasn't telling them what they want to hear but what they need to hear.
Truthfully, unless asked, I wouldn't have said anything. I would coward.
bassman1731 1 year ago
@ILNY83 did u even watch the video?
that is not what he said. he didn't tell them that the guy was gonna burn in hell. He told them that God is just, and he will judge everyone in a fair manner.
but at the same time, he could not have said that the guy is in heaven, because that is not what is promised to unbelievers in the bible.
nanamiyuki 1 year ago
@ILNY83 I think Piper spoke at the funeral because he had the opportunity to comfort the member of his congregation whose brother had passed away. Also, I don't think Piper is judging. The woman's brother was unrepentant and the Bible is clear on his fate. Piper's use of "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" seeks to comfort those grieving by reminding them that God is just, that we must cling to him and trust in his good purpose, especially in times like these.
suspendedanimation 11 months ago
@suspendedanimation Which is a Christian belief and opinion, not a fact. The person who passed away was NOT a Christian. Therefore HIS wishes and beliefs should have been respected by his family, friends, and whoever performed the service. If John Piper could not or would not alter his beliefs for the sake of the person who passed away, which is his right, then he should NOT have taken the job. If your religious beliefs can't be respected at your own funeral, then something is serious wrong.
ILNY83 9 months ago
@ILNY83 I do believe, however, that if that man really went to hell because of his rejection of Jesus, he would want everyone of his friends and family to hear the warning to do what the bible says to avoid that place. It may seem insensitive that J. Piper would speak about his being lost; but I think it was actually the kindest thing he could have done to those left behind, if they were also not believers-if he told them how to be saved.
bellabeachweddings 8 months ago
@suspendedanimation Which is a Christian belief and opinion, NOT a fact. The person who passed away was NOT a Christian. Therefore HIS wishes and beliefs should have been respected by his family, friends, and whoever performed the service. If John Piper could not or would not alter his beliefs for the sake of the person who passed away, which is his right, then he should NOT have taken the job. If your religious beliefs can't be respected at your own funeral, then something is seriously wrong.
ILNY83 9 months ago
" BEWARE OF ANGRY WATCHMEN " SEARCH IT NOW!!!! PLEASE.
duecepitbull 1 year ago
@Mazcan77
Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Philippians 4:5
Atlast some one who writes comments with gentleness. I'm really sad that some Christians reply to those who attack our faith with harsh words. Thank you brother for making your gentleness evident! God bless!
cmdsaved 1 year ago
Good response. I was wondering how he would respond to this one.
xchampx 1 year ago
I think the only way to deal with the death of an unsaved loved one is to love God with all your heart and strength and mind and put HIM first in your life and love. And when you do that God will give you the desires of HIS own heart and that is that justice will must satisfied and righteousness will be done. You'll start seeing that loved ones death and a satisfaction of justice instead of a loss. You'll see that God is glorified in it and you'll rejoice because of it.
T2Todd2 1 year ago
@T2Todd2 *"Love ones death as a satisfaction"
T2Todd2 1 year ago
If people only believe in god through a fear if hell isn't that from a selfish motive
bagospannerz 1 year ago
This is one of the most insightful responses on the issue I've seen.
SalvationEternity777 1 year ago
Jesus IS KING OF KINGS!!!!!!!!!
PiShoN79 1 year ago
Christianity... the belief that an all powerful Jewish Zombie can help you avoid being tortured forever.You must eat crackers and wine that turn into his flesh and telepathically tell him you are a worthless piece of crap and deserve eternal torture (eventhough he made you).This is because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat a forbidden fruit which placed a curse on all our souls. Dont worry though, he sacrificed himself to himself, in order to break the curse.
Copy this message
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tempemonkey2323 You need Jesus, go to Him. Repent of your sins now!!
SalvationEternity777 1 year ago
Im not a believer.... How can anyone beleive that anyone deserves eternal torture... You sick sons of bitches get a life!!!!
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323
Nobody deserves mercy, and the earth doesn't deserve to be enslaved to our lusts.
Hell is when god decides to stop being patient , and no longer has the world submit to your sinfulness.
TheCarydal 1 year ago
@TheCarydal No body.... NO BODY deserves to be tortured forever... Its too bad that you have been brainwashed so much as to not see your morality being warped by this stone aged belief system which spread only because of its ability to control minds..... If there is a god, I'm sure that he is not as evil and petty as the one you worship.... Is there anything your child could do which would make you torture it forever in the basement and call it moral in doing so? Stop trying to justify evil.
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheCarydal 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheCarydal 1 year ago
Comment removed
TheCarydal 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323
God is not obligated to give us mercy. When he takes way his mercy and gifts our depravity is unleashed, and we attack and take down one another.
The earth doesn't have to serve us, and so it will vomit us when god is sick of the unrepentent sinner.
TheCarydal 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323 The punishment for sin is hell.
If there's no hell, then there's no punishment, which is unjust.
SalvationEternity777 1 year ago
@SalvationEternity777 Listen to you spout your mantra like a true brainwashed Christian... Is there anything your child can do, which would make you say that it deserves to be tortured forever???? Grow some balls and stand up to the immoral bullshit your religion is cramming down your throat.
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323 There is nothing to answer you.
But no one that will perish in their sins is a child of God.
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do...." (Jn 8:44a)
If you however continue to slander and cuss, you will be blocked. No questions asked.
I used to be like you man, I realized though that I was going to die and that really I've offended God. Don't continue in what I left off, you will assuredly regret it.
SalvationEternity777 1 year ago
@SalvationEternity777 Sorry, but I am not afraid of your boogeyman..... If their is a god, I'm sure that having faith in a human sacrifice is NOT what he wants us to do.... Fear tactics work well on you I see...
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323
Indeed it isn't. We don't just have faith in a mere human sacrifice. We have faith in the Son of God, both God and Man, who willingly laid His life down for His people, the elect.
And on the third day, He rose again and defeated death.
There's no fear of hell in me, although I fear what hell is, I don't fear the possibility now of me going there. Hey, I've been saved. Turn to Jesus.
SalvationEternity777 1 year ago
@SalvationEternity777 You just don't get it... The fear of hell compelled you to believe!!! Well guess what, I'm not afraid of fairy tales.... BTW, calling Jesus the son of man or any other fancy cliche doesn't mean it wasn't a human sacrifice and a scape goat (where a tribe puts its sins and troubles on a goat and then drive it out of the village, this was once really practiced)
Grow up and admit that xianity is ridiculous...
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323 Christianity.... The belief that an all loving and all powerful cosmic Jewish Zombie, who was His own father, can make you live forever if you eat crackers and wine (that then turn into His flesh) while telepathically telling Him that you accept Him as your Master so He can remove an evil force from your soul that is present because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat the forbidden fruit of a magical tree....
tempemonkey2323 1 year ago
@tempemonkey2323 I have to wonder, I have seen you on a lot of Christian videos leaving comments (not very re