HR676 - The Single Payer Solution, Part 2 of 4

[captfoster1]

Why do some people think that HR676 (a public option) or rather... a government run INSURANCE SYSTEM is somehow a government takeover of health care itself??

Perhaps if those of you who are fearful and living with your head under the sand might want to consider actually investigating the idea of Single Payer.

Oh, and allowing across state line competition would be the absolute worst we could allow... look at what that did for the credit card companies.

[pokeyugi13]

when you pass single payer people can get better jobs that didn't offer health insurance this way people have more money and this way people can live healthier lives instead of having a job with health insurance that pays minimum wage but hey you got health coverage

[redbonegal]

so I guess we are just supposed to pay premiums for insurance and let them decide who lives and who dies? Acording to the GOP thats what is supposed to happen.

[humanisall]

Reality is stronger than conservative fear tactics. most americans do not react to fear as republicans and so they proceed forward for others than themselves

[Johntkr]

Healthcare companies take 1 out of every 3 dollars. So the ones that do not come up with new medicine or treat people medically make as much or more money as those who do

[RealCosmicSurfer]

One of the biggest issues ignored -those saying "no Obamacare", fearing single-payer haven't experienced the horror of the industry fed & led murder by disease created by our system. They live in a fantasy fed w/ billions in propaganda by highly paid shills making millions off the backs of the US worker-They don't know what they don't know. The rest? Over 22 mill. people in this country work in the ins. industry from auto to health. Add pharma & healthcare corps, they make up a HUGE bloc

[thisoldhate]

The cost of health care reform is a moot point. DROP IT. We cannot and MUST NOT continue the current "system" as its hands are so bloody from killing Americans they'd make the Taliban say "man that's messed up".

People need to learn to find the real boogie man.

[rwcbanzai]

Single Payer or die Broke!

Public Option= >$profits for corporate cannibals=>profit from Pain!

Enforce the Hippocratic oath, make all the profiteers go non profit!

[econdemocracy]

"It all seems great until you have to answer the question.....WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM??????? "

Well the same group, the Congressional Budget Office,(CB)which is quoted by those who oppose refrom(oppose patients rights and regulation of the Corporate Death Panels)..the same CBO which doubts the Obama-Congress plan will save money, also said previously that Single Payer would save billions. Repeat: not cost but SAVE billions. Government Accountability Office said the same

[thisoldhate]

have you watched this video at all? 31 trillion in the next handful of years if we do nothing, single payer will cost nowhere near this much, as things are going now 100% of our GDP is goig to have to go toward health care... HOW CAN WE PAY FOR THE STATUS QUO!

[econdemocracy]

Death Panels exist today a sick 17-year-old girl needs a liver transplant. Doctors find an available organ, & they're ready to operate, but the bureaucracy - the "death

panel" -steps in &says it won't pay for the surgery

Despite protests from girl's family &her doctors, the heartless hacks hold their ground for a critical 10 days. Eventually, under massive public pressure, they relent, but the girl dies before the operation can proceed

Who did it?Not govt, but private corporate health insurer

[econdemocracy]

"Real Americans don't want to live as serfs in a kingdom or peasants under Czars."

Aha!Apparently you believe that both UK&Canada, &most of W Europe, all live "like serfs under Czars" Apparently you believe so do the people in Japan. &Australia. &New Zealand. &Taiwan. They all have Single Payer (Medicare for All, non-profit universal public health insurance).Apparently the first country that pops into your head as "Socialist" is England!?Also wrong: you confuse single payer w/ "public option"

[hellotommy]

Another thing their doing is called incremental change. When they realize they cannot get the massive plan into place now, they scale it back and wait until they think you are not watching. They are very willing to make the incremental moves until all the sheep are fooled. Then they have full control...

[hellotommy]

Democrats don't seem to understand. Its not that they CAN'T, its that they DON'T WANT to. They don't want to come to grips with the fact that more people are waking up and standing up -- much like people did when this country was formed. Real Americans don't want to live as serfs in a kingdom or peasants under Czars. These participants are YOUR grandparents, parents and co-workers. They're tired of being forced into socialism. We've fought too many years to allow this to happen from inside.

[hellotommy]

President Barack Obama said his grandmothers hip-replacement surgery during the final weeks of her life made him wonder whether expensive procedures for the terminally ill reflect a sustainable model for health care. Obama said you just get into some very difficult moral issues when considering whether to give my grandmother, or everybody elses aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when theyre terminally ill.

Death Panel will stop the spending on elderly by rationing care

[PatchesRips]

"Death Panel will stop the spending on elderly by rationing care"

You already have that, Tommy. HMOs do it every day, just to guard their profits. And they don't just do it to the elderly, either.

In a single payer system, they can't cut your benefits or deny you a listed service.

[hellotommy]

White House boasts: We 'control' news media

Communications chief offers shocking confession to foreign government

By Aaron Klein

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

White House Comm Director Anita Dunn disclosed at a videotaped conference.

"Very rarely did we communicate through the press anything that we didn't absolutely control," said Dunn.

Dunn was speaking at a Jan. 12, 2009, event focusing on Obama's media tactics and hosted by the Global Foundation for Democracy & Development

TAKEOVER

[hellotommy]

To dems and Obama: Fix Medicare and Medicaid (what you are responsible for today) and then maybe we can trust you with the entire system. It is arrogance beyond belief that you believe you can change something so important, so complex, and so huge all at once. Take this in steps, steps that we can understand.

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

[MultiMatt9]

Because you do not understand it, does not mean we should wait for you to catch up before something is done about this.

Do not let these insurance companies and fox news hacks scare you out of a single payer system. I live in Canada. I would not move to America for all the money in the world because of their poor Healthcare system.

FACT Canadians and Europeans live longer and healthier lives.

Do not listen to the lies about wait times and poor care. It's not true. They are trying to scare you

[hellotommy]

When they realize they cannot get the massive plan into place now, they will scale it back and wait until they think you are not watching. They are very willing to make the incremental moves until all the sheep are fooled. Then they have full control... Why does a mandatory "board" member have to be Representatives of labor unions like SEIU (Dem thugs)? To help delay critical lifesaving medical treatments causing premature deaths to non union citizens?

[sambking]

What, is "the system" going to hold a gun to doctors heads and force them to work for peanuts? Where is the money going to come from to pay for everyone???? The reason the system is so "broken" at the moment is because of too much govt interference. So you think the answer is MORE govt???????

It all seems great until you have to answer the question.....WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM???????

[headstorms]

The government interference that has broken the system is Reaganomics/deregulation and laws pushing privatization. Medicare Part D laws prevent Medicare from negotiating drug prices (so we pay more than any country). Medicare Advantage laws pay a higher per-capita cost to private insurers for people that are tricked into opting out of Medicare and into an HMO-like plan, where care can and is being denied to the elderly. I'd rather pay 1/2 for guaranteed quality care than sustain bad insurers.

[sambking]

@headstorms

"Deregulation" in any industry very little to do with actually removing govt from the industry which is always the root of the problem. Where is the "guaranteed quality" going to come from once all the doctors move to Asia to practice medicine in a free-er market environment? The waiting lists for care will be absurd with fewer and fewer doctors in the US. I agree that govt has to get out of healthcare but the new proposals give govt more control over it.

[PatchesRips]

"WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?"

According to NationMaster, the US spends $6096 per patient. Australia, $3,123.30, Canada, $3037.60, the UK, $ 2,899.70... and every one of those countries has a higher life expectancy. In other words, the y is already there, in spades. The problem is how it's being distributed, who's getting it, and the colossal overhead involved in maintaining a for-profit system...

[panathabro]

@sambking dont worry about the money...if we use the same amount of money we spend now wed be alright..you know y...because we could use all the billions in health insurance profits to actually cover ppl instead...boom there is your answer buddy

[sambking]

@panathabro

I suggest you read some of Ludwig von Mises work on basic economics, econ that is not taught in public schools because it does not buy into the Keynesian utopian fantasy of spending our way to prosperity. In order to make a case for anything it is a good policy to understand the basic foundation that your argument is based upon. Why don't we just print TRILLIONS to pay for all the "free" health care that you want? Ever heard of Zimbabwe or the Weimar Republic in Germany in the '20s?

[panathabro]

@sambking i yes, i used to bang him...i sure will lil buddy...ill read the whole thing since the evil public schools kept it from me.....question, how do you get your health care.......u pay for it is not an acceptable answer....work,school, private etc....

Suck my nutz

ps ..nothing personal its just that suck my nutz has become my online signature... k bye

Suck my nutz

[045781]

@sambking

The money is UP YOUR ASS

Got that asshole.....

[sambking]

@045781 Money is just a medium of exchange. Nothing more, nothing less. It makes transacting efficient, that's all. Issues such as these focus on money rather that the real issue of forcing someone to provide a good or service rather than relying on voluntary transactions.

[WWWoDMOCRATSoORG]

Sign these two petitions for HR 676

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[AliceStokesPaul]

But, Chriscorr, if that plan is accepted and it doesn't work and I dont' think it will, then it's failure will be used as a way to stop single payer from ever getting accepted in the U.S. What a shame.

[AliceStokesPaul]

Who on here said China has national health insurance is misinformed. China has private insurance and it's the most expensive health care system outside the U.S.A.

[AliceStokesPaul]

Obamacare panders to the insurance companies and is NOT, NOT, NOT single payer for ALL. and it will not work!

[thechriscorr]

That is true. Unfortunately, it is probably the best the U.S. can get for the forseeable future. So I reluctantly support it. It's better than nothing.

[nohealthcare62]

West Tn Sprayed with MALATHION @ 7yrs BoWeevil Errad Program many cancers and birth defects .I got Vulva cancer BCBS dropped me 2 weeks after operation On my own dont qualify Watch Glenda Whiteman Winnipeg Malthion PT3 on YT

[warhater]

A sweet talker +a hoot/ Obama's under a fascist boot/ Denying what he got elected for/ A bunch of millionaires/With fantastic healthcare/ Will make us all pay more/ Crap insuarance/A worldly disgrace/ We're 36 on the list/ Of terrible care/But they don't care/ They refuse to have it fixed/ So "We The People"/The seat of R power/ Will seize back R Republic/ 'Tis rightfully R's/But has gone sour/ With selfish souls/ The People have spoken/Now GET OUT, Ur broken/ R Constitution calls

[econdemocracy]

"Why don't you move to UK, Canada, Cuba, N Korea, China" thank you, thank you, thank you for exposing the massive ignorance or fraud (or both) of the right-wing position...you just compared England as if it's similar to North Korea, congratulations, a new level of George Orwell double-think...the fact the right-wing has to compare countries like England (or Taiwan,which also had Single Payer) as if they are similar to China or even N Korea exposes, most balatantly, how absurd they are..

[hoorano]

Where's your proof of the absurdities? Anyone can make comments w/o substance.

[econdemocracy]

"Too expensive for US during a recession" Wrong, single payer would save hundreds of billions *per* year, according to study after study(by the watchdog Government Accountability Office, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, and many others). It would Save money. The scammers at "Free our health care" pretend to want to protect us from "government takeover" but are not bothered by the Corporate Takeover which maximizes profits by denying care to people like this nurse..who was insured!

[hoorano]

WRONG! The CBO & Obama claims that new recipients (50 million who are uncovered) of the universal health care would be expensive. If you don't like how the insurance and doctors are caring for you, GET OUT OF THE USA NOW! Govt can and will deny treatment to the elderly, terminally ill and unborn infants w/ defects (Obama is for late term abortions in case you didn't know). How will Obama control the cost of pre/post life care & terminally ill? Higher taxes for the rich in a recession like FDR?

[spittysmom]

Gov't health care is better than NO HEALTHCARE. If individuals would prefer to see private doctors because they feel they'll get better care, then that would be their option and they can pay for those services themselves.

But I would rather pay more in taxes and know that if I had an emergency, I could get help. A strong country like America should at least invest in their citizens to be strong and healthy. Healthy citizens makes a healthy & productive workforce & economy, at the very least.

[nohealthcare62]

Yes I Agree I was sprayed with Malithion for 7 yrs the Dept of Human Services says I do not qualify ..only for Death ..I keep taking natural cures But I need to see a doctor but they will not have anything to do with me I am 46 yrs old

[hoorano]

Too easy to freeload the govt. A govt can easily take back what it gives. In the case of health care, govt will take away your freedom of choice and expedient care. Where's your spirit of America where you can have the freedom to profit and afford quality care? It's too easy to lay back and be given something for nothing even if you contribute thru taxes. You'll get what you pay for -- poor quality health care.

[hoorano]

In UK, the National Institutional for Clinical Excellence (NICE) determines whether if people can qualify for medical care. Their budget for the elderly and life threatening illness is $35,000. If treatment surpasses this cost, the patient will be limit to care to survive as long as s/he could. Further, the life saving medicines and procedures are very limited. Insurance co can reject care as you say, so can NICE, a govt program Obama wants to emulate in his health care to reduce cost.

[headstorms]

You need to get your facts (and your currency conversion) straight. NICE limits depend on additional years of life expectancy and quality of life -- and as such the limits can be higher. Every system (even ours) has rationing, because health care is a limited resource. The difference is that care is dispensed sensibly in other countries. The US system is completely IRRATIONAL. We do need (evidence-based) sanity-checking on the use of expensive drugs with no better outcomes than cheaper ones.

[hoorano]

You're right. It's actually $50,000 vs 35,000 pounds. What make you think the women, who was rejected by the insurance co., will get better care than the socialized health care? She probably be refused care because the cost of extending her life is too high. Just because health care maybe free, it doesn't mean everyone will get it. I'd say socialized health care is insane:

1 Too expensive for US during a recession

2 End of life care is to limiting: euthanasia?

3 Lower quality & longer waits

[DrFlippin]

The health insurance companies think the public option is insane, too.

Who are you, hoorano? You keep posting a whole swack of lies, distortions and republican fear-mongering talking points. Either you're a shill for the health insurance & pharmaceutical industries, or you're extremely pessimistic about reforming the current IRRATIONAL system in the US. : 1 Current system is too expensive - recession or not. 2 Euthanasia? (fear mongering). 3 Longer waits for electives is far better than none!

[hoorano]

I'm glad you asked. I'm an American that cares for liberty. Why do you think patients from Canada, UK, Australia, Japan, & other socialist nations are coming to the US for critical medical care? Their socialist govt won't give it to them. What I'm saying are facts. These patients are the victims of "soft tyranny" since medical care is being rationed. Show me the truths of Obamacare of how popular it is and how it is cost effective. W/ Obamacare, there will be no place to go for quality medicine.

[DrFlippin]

You're an American who cares only for your own liberty, and not for your fellow citizens who can't access the high quality of care that EXTREMELY WEALTHY foreigners come to America for. The ordinary hard working American can't access the Mayo clinic! The whole point of Obamacare- or whatever you call it, is about ACCESS to affordable healthcare - not about what country has the best quality! You have no facts: Obamacare ISN'T EVEN HERE YET and already you're dissing it! Selfish, Misinformed Fool!

[hoorano]

Why don't you move to UK, Canada, Cuba, N Korea, China, or any other socialized nations if you like your liberty to be controlled by the govt. Do you have a job & health care insurance? Why do you care so much for illegal aliens, freeloaders who refuse to work or healthy young people who refused to pay for health care insurance? I'm only a Preschool Teacher who loves working w/ children. I don't want the children & their children to be in debt before adulthood. Obamacare = destruction of USA .

[RealCosmicSurfer]

The most active lie on the Republican spin machine today is that the Canadians are clamoring to come to the US for care. That is PURE BS.. I KNOW people in Canada, UK, France (which also provides LEGAL care in a similar system as their birth to death...ALL citizens get FREE legal representation and assistance for anything), and have spoken to people in Sweden....They will all tell you that is an outright lie.

So have we now deduced you work for the Pharm or Insurance industry?

[hoorano]

Tell us the people's names and their background. The young middle class person won't care about the terminally ill, end of life care or prenatal care (euthanasia @ both sides of life). Like I said, I'm only a Preschool Teacher who cares for young children and their future which is being threatened now.

[mgathena]

I totally agree! Hooano is full of fearful lies.

[ubuibiok]

Push back... your politicians has staffers that answer the phone and record and Track call-ins.

They even agree to note your issues and log the calls to show there boss who and how many issues there dealing with and if your a voting from their district.

Low to no complaints allows them to vote with the money... voter HEAT count puts them into a survival mod .

If they commit to the money in a HIGH HEAT count, bet your last dollar they go into the next election wearing a parachute .

[sincerityproductions]

message for link to sign petition to support hr676 sinle payer health care

[FluxCapacitor2008]

Health care costs are part of the problem we have with job out sourcing; the burden of health care is put on the workers and employers, why cant we have a hybrid type of health care, use income tax money to pay into a non profit system that will pay for coverage for all Americana and then pay back a percentage in the form of a tax refund to the tax payers that dont use the coverage NON PROFIT is the key to take the high cost out!!!

[WWWoDMOCRATSoORG]

Please answer a single payer universal health care opinion poll at

h t t p : / / p o l l . d e m o c r a t z . o r g

You can watch a new edition of Countdown with Keith Olbermann each night at 11:35pm Eastern time at

h t t p : / / l i b e r a l . d e m o c r a t z . o r g

[suescannon]

We are tired of health insurance greed. We are tired of not getting what we pay for. We are tired of middlemen (the private insurance companies) interfering with needed care prescribed by our doctors and nurse practitioners. Private health insurers are a waste and a drain on our system and a threat to the health of our nation. We all should be getting better care.

HR 676, improved and expanded Medicare for All is the answer. Publicly funded, privately delivered care. That's the American way!

[hoorano]

Google: Free our health care

[RedPandaBoy]

i think people should continue to push for this... I was told that 'competition' is necessary... in health insurance... as if insuring people is a product or a service instead of a deal between a company and a group of people.. where the gambit is that the company makes more money than spend.

than you for this video.

[hottdog3]

Dennis Kucinich 08