as a muslim i believe the ebionite christians are the acutal real christian followers of jesus (AS) they must be...
why in the world would paul kill them???? and other sects tht he felt disobeyed his teachings.... paul never meet jesus yet he claims he knows everything about him....
@wayman29 thanx for your words i have some fro ebinites bible but its written in arabic do u want it ,its from masonic priest he wrote a book saying that islam was just copy of ebionites well ebionites bible is god words do god change his words change his story change his information ?and yet similar to torah ,we belive in ebionites ok i can try to translate for you some
Respond to this video... there is in quran mention of jesus that he was making birds from clay and he blow into them and by god will it will be alive bird this was also mentioned in ebionites bible and if you can see the Wikipedia about bible or jesus in bible and quran they will give you notes that some bible scholars mentioned that as so
@wayman29 the author have two names either Joseph qazzi his real name or abou mossa al harirri
and some of quran versses in this book is talking about arab before islam he ignore before islame and took the rest and also this priest is died before prophet muhammed being a messenger he only told him that what prophet muhammed saw was an angel after this storey 3-4 years gabriel came back and tell to prophet he will be the messenger to arab
@wayman29 .. there is in quran mention of jesus that he was making birds from clay and he blow into them and by god will it will be alive bird this was also mentioned in ebionites bible and if you can see the Wikipedia about bible or jesus in bible and quran they will give you notes that some bible scholars mentioned that as so
@wayman29 there is also an interesting why did ebionites is is reserved in arabia there was a priest a mong he is the priest of bin saeeda he was 650 years old and he memorises the ebionites bible by heart and he always breech people in oukath market and he saw and meet St. Simeon ,he was a mircale by him self that he aged 650 years old on his death
They will see with out vision and hear with out hearing and you dont under stand whats your hearing and you will not under stand seeing what you see and whats the vision ? The heart of this people may thicken have ears and hard they close their eyes so as not to see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and go back to the Ohvém to me to cure them Matthew 13:13 and Mark 4:10 and Luke 8: 9
@wayman29 Village you entered Ask about the generous , and stay there because the worker deserves his food and when you enter the house greet him.. They went calling people to repentance _ any house you enter say peace to this house and stay in that house, eat and drink what they have because the worker deserve his salary and any city you enter and they accepted you eat what they offer to you to bring you closer fto them ,&say the time of repentance become near Matthew 10:10 Luke 10: 5
@wayman29 Who said to his brother you are a fool necessitated to be throw to the fire of hell Mathew 5:22 you command People to carry the heavy loads and you do not even touch it with one of your fingers right Gospel of Matthew 23: 4Father whos sees in secret will reward you mathew 6:18
@wayman29 Beware of your righteousness dont do it infront of people to impress them and loss your pay ..like the hypocrites do to be praised by people .. They took their pay , if you give charity g in secret give in secret& your Father who in secret will reward you Matthew 6: 1-2If you want to be perfect, go, sell everything Matthew 19:21
@wayman29 Too hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven because the camel can enters the hole of the needle easier than a rich to enter the kingdom of heaven Matthew 19:23Who was his father or mother or son or daughter beloved more than me is not worthy of me whenever 10:37 That those who listen to Moses and the prophets, will not be convinced even if one rise from death dead, Luke 16:31
will jesus didnt came to destroey the jhudisams he came to correct it and complete it so any rule that is not mentioned in bible you should search for it in the old testemon,
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After Heraclius expelled the Ebionites from Edessa,they fled to Medina and spread their false gospel to the arabs ,one ebionite master taught mohamed his religion ,was Waraqua ibm Nawel
a ebionite priest?I think that this man was Gabreel who taught Mohamad his heretical religion
@SonofJaphet - someone gave you false information.
Here's some false points about your comment:
- There was no Medina, it was called Yathrib. Then after the Prophet left Mecca to Yathrib he changed the name to Medina
- No one taught Mohammed PBUH, he could not read or write and died that way.
- Waraqe Ibin Nawfal was the cousin of Khadeja, the prophets wife and he was a devout Christian that believed in the true religion, and believed that Jesus was not God.
@isalhia no it was named yethreb and madina before prophet muhamed pbuh its an hebrew world wich is similar between arabs and hebrew ,warqa ibn nawfal died before islam declared to prophet muhamed because gabriel >after his first appearnce to prophet pbuh he disappeared for 3 years after that he came back to prophet muhamed declaring that now to start god massage to islm
@sugerdrops - Hello! Yathrib was the name and Jew's lived there, because they where waiting for a prophet to come from among them. The word Madina means City. Muhammed PBUH did change the name from Yathrib to Madina. Waraqa died before the Message of Muhammed but the message of the Oneness of Allah was preached by true christians as well before they deviated. There's a difference of opinion on Gabriel coming 3 years later. Ibn Sa'd reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas that it was a few days
@isalhia اكتب لك بالعربي . يثرب كانت تسمى تيماء و تسمى المدينة من قبل الرسول صلى الله عليه وتسمى دار سلام واليهود كانوا ينتظرون النبي الامي(genitels) والامي تعني من الامم الاخرى ومثل ما تفضلت ورقة بن نوفل لم يلحق على البعث وذلك ان الرسول صلى الله عليه لم يبعث الا بعد 3 سنوات من ظهور سيدنا جبريل بغار حراءوكذلك اقرأ عن قس بن ساعدة بابن كثير ونبوءة الرسول احمد بانجييل ابيونيين وقس بن ساعدة توفى اول الدعوة ولم يعلم بها عن عمر يناهز600سنة يحفظ انجيل الابيونين عن ظهر قلب واخذه من الحواري سمعان,
@sugerdrops - Hello my laptop doesn't have the Arabic keys to type back to you but I what you wrote. I don't disagree much with what you wrote. There are different sources of information that we all use to do research, and even though they may seem as there taking different paths. They all lead to the same result or destination. I use a book called the Seal of the Nectar, Hadith and Quran to reference my information. But I don't rule out other information except if it conflicts with Quran.
@isalhia Yathrib was called Taima, and is called the city by the Prophet Allah bless him and called the house of peace, the Jews were waiting for the illiterate Prophet (genitels) omi means of other nations, such as the kindly paper bin Nawfal, did not cause the resurrection and that the Prophet Muhammad, it did not matter, but after 3 years from the appearance gabriel heraa` Read about the priest the son of Ben sa3eda many prophecy prophet Ahmed in ebionites bible and died of 600 of age
@isalhia im muslim to the monk or priest ben saeeda the ayady who died of age of 600yrs he memorized the ebionites bible by heart he lived since the rise of jesus and he met Simon the apostle till Muhammad pbuh but he died in first of declaring islam prophet muhamed saw hin in aukath market >you can read about him in bedaya o nehaya /ibn katheer the beginning and the ending
@isalhia im muslim like you allah the god of abrahim i worship him by salat and faith and beliving in quran and all gods book enjeel =bible torah and all his massangers and prophet .the only one god
@SonofJaphet what most of this claimed that christians when they refeer to quran they thought that it begin with the oldest to the new well its oppiste so nthe verseese that christians claimed its taken from ebonites bible the thought thats the first versess will its wrong these versses was descended after 23 years of islam so no way it was teached by warqa .and if this was true than why didnt the quraishen people didnt said it is from the ebonits >well god is one his words is one why u doubt
@SonofJaphet any author you can know his way of writting its same as god ,beside Quran is mircle by its harmony of the word sounds and the perfection of its grammers.difficult for a littrute person to recits it .then how come islam+quran made the arabs bedo nade them to learn and love each other and became an empire ?why didnt the ebonites christians came so?
didn't anyone beneath the missionary missions of paul ever protest any non - trinity christianity? I believe christianity was Muslim like until mohhamed became a prophet, that's when i believe that after mohhamed died , trinity (including jesus as god and son etc...) took effect over every single edge in europe, making europe the perverted west
I misquoted Isaiah 42 in place of it I discribed Ezekiel 42 sorry! Isaiah 42 is about God calling his son into the world also quoted in Mat 12:20 from Isa42:3. still the same no mention of Mohammed. Question to ponder: If Isaiah is calling out Mohammed, why did time change in the time of Christ B.C. to A.D. this is roman time, right? and why did the Jews stop offering blood sacrifices? even they didnt believe he was the Christ? why not wait for Mohammed to arrive several hundred years later?
watch video "Isaiah 42 predicts Mohammed(pbuh) made by KINGKHAN2. It has 100% proof. then its upto you. but paul and authors of gospels attributed that to jesus which proves paul was not divinely guided. jesus does not meet criteria of isaiah 42 as isaiah called him servant who will set up laws,man of war and will be from kedar(ishmael's son).it was Mohammed not Jesus.(pbut)
OK ill bite. what exactly do mean by this. Are christians trying to hide islam inside our own bible? I think not. Kedar is mentioned 12 times in 11 verses. yes Ishmaels son.gen 16:12 calls ishmael a wild man whos hand will be aginst every man(much as it has been between his people and Israel from then till now)Kedar had 11 brothers making 12. Islam has 12 Imams there waiting on the 12th to to return to usher in the end of times.
Jesus had 12 disciples. satan is a liar and copies what god has established so we will see these simularities thruout history.any way, isa 42prophesy about jesus are fulfilled in mat12:18-20 if you want the rest to be about mohammed, ok. Im not convienced. But even if it is, can you see islam being a reinforcement of the foundation that Jesus set? I think not.They are a warring wild man religeon that will convert you by force and kill you if you try to leave.
Is God not capable of judgement?True Christians would let you do the same as God would, let you do Have free will.Not force you against your will. (some can be over bearing of course) but we are not going to beat or kill you if you dont want to believe what we say from the bible.I know, Iknow we christians have kill more in the name of God than all the wars. but this is not Gods doing its mans desire for power and control.and consider this, not all people had scripturue or could read at the time
If you are convienced that this passage is fortelling of mohammed, it may well be. This in no way makes him the messiah,apostle,priest or a follower of scripture. Islam has in the quran Gods law,the 10 commandments.they are as much accountable to them as you and I are. If we fail to keep them we are doomed.God has laid out in the torrah his plan of salvation. Calling out his Christ to die for your sins because he knows you cant keep his laws. will you believe and trust in him or your self?
we dont say Mohammed(pbuh) is messiah either. Messiah is not as significent as christians assume. Jesus is messiah coz his responsiblity to set up messianic kingdom when he comes back which will last for some time(7 0r 40 years). thats just one of sign of hour.and torah(both original and corrupted) never said that God will kill someone and we have to accept him as saviour. Only God is saviour as isaiah told. jesus was his servant.
It was Peter not Paul who first brought the gospel to the gentiles(romans,greeks) ect. see again acts 10.
God does indeed love his law,Why, because it brings us to the conclusion that we cant keep it and are in danger of un-favorable judgment and in need of his provided saviour-Jesus Christ. Dont consider the 214 precepts that go along with the law. the ten commandments are our doom. Think about it lies,theft lust of the heart, blasphemy,hatred... your doom is sealed. Repent and turn to Jesus!
You sited Isa 42 as mentioning mohammes? sorry its not there. 42 is about measuring the temple continued from chapt. 41 and into 43I did a search for mohammed and its various spellings and in many diffrent translations not there either- any explanation?
Muslims believe Jesus a profit and prehaps judas was on the cross insted.Their messiah is not Jesus. they await the 12thImam a desendant of mohammed couldnt be Jesus(prehaps the anti-christ) hes due on the scene about now!
whoever wrote the gospel of barnabas evidently was not from the "middle east region" because he would have known that Nazareth was not a seaport,Jesus couldnot have sailed to nazareth. perhaps he couldnt have been a muslim either because it contradicts the quran chapt 19:23about how mary brought foth Jesus- with pain or with out pain? daniel being only 2years old at the time of captivity? how could this be concidered as accurate?
that was past. may be river was there then.we cant say who wrote it. ya it goes against quran too. may be it is also not 100% perfect. but it is better than new testament which has pagan beliefs.
the eating of swine was refuted in Acts 10 of peters dream of being told to kill and eat the defiled/four footed animals he refused to do so because they were unholy and was told not to call unholy what God had made holy.
The Jews had many misconceptions of messiah. too many to list along with the Quranand its own self contradictionseven the muslims read of jesus being messiah but ask them, hes only a profit.
whats contradiction there? messiha is prophet not God. even bible called cyrus( a holy man who followed preaching of prophet zoroaster)a messiah. man is mammal, an animal with brain. man does s ex,eat food and sleep like other animals. so can God turn him into human(animal) form? God is holy one. Jesus was man like us. he ate food,slept,answered acll of nature,inside womb of mother for 9 months,breast fed. man dont be pagan. God honors you if u honor him.
It seems according to the posts here that some have the idea that Paul was against preaching the Law. I do not find this true. Ro 3:31" Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Ro 4:13 " For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith." where is he wrong in all his writings?
The problem with looking back to find the truth is when you realize each culture tried to hang on to there old ways. That is why the people were/are divided. Believers were/are given the Holy Spirit to guide them. We may not all be guided in the same direction but still according to the will of God for his purpose. Unity lies in our Love for God the Almighty.
muslims believe jesus as messiah. he will come back and set messianic kingdom for 40 or 7 years. he will fight against pagans and in his rule no animal will kill other. no poverty or tax will bethere. its temporary and after his death , ppl become bad and God will destroy world and after some time God will resurrect all on judgment day. this is muslim view of jesus.
read gospel of barnabas which called paul a liar and mentioned the name of mohamed(pbuh). this gospel is hidden by church in emperial library austria. it was banned by church and kept in library. it was taken out by a spaniard called fra marino in 16th century and church initialy attributed that to muslims and later blamed fra marino. but still some copies were published by one american press which i read.
and ya christians are saying that gospel of barnabas was written by muslims to fool ppl. so we have one solution for that.we can calculate the age of paper of that book through various methods which science developed today. if its age crosses 1400 years it will be proved it was written before the birth of Mohammed(pbuh). are xians ready for that? if they r sincere they should. but i am sure xians wont do that. they never want to accept truth.
you could refute christian doctrine even further buy calling us copy-cats as well being as threr are several instances of virgin birth,death and ressurection of that son in pagan history. but God has called them out. cimeramus= istar=ashera=nefertiti + others =our pagan easter. She is the virgin mother of tamu who died and rose three days later and they celebrated his resurection by colering eggs,his birthday is december 25th AKA nimrod of the tower of babyl and Baal+others shall I go on?
I have also noticed this in gospel of Barnabas, also Enoch, Daniel, And most of the apocalyptic groups of the Dead sea scrolls, Testaments of the Patriarchs, the Zend Avesta, Some Vedic ideas, Ben Sierra, Testament/odes of Solomon, Tobit, Daniel, Ezekiel , Jeremiah,Isaiah,And believe it or not Hebrews, Revelation, small parts of Galatians, and Corinthians. Post the Near Eastern proof text or where it can be found for the Easter topic you discussed above. You talking about Greco/Roman Isis ideas?
I am interested in understanding Islam but I am confused about something. If Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah but yet do not believe he was crucified what made him the Messiah? The whole point was that he was crucified died, was buried and rose again to fulfill scripture. What makes him Messiah to Muslims? I am really trying to understand.
There is nothing in the Jewish Scriptues that state the Messiah would be killed and then rise from the dead. Jesus was allowed to change some of the Torah Laws. His teachings (the Gospel) replaced the teachings of the Torah. He made the laws less strict. There's more to it....read the Quran and find out ; )
Jesus rising from the Dead Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15/ Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10./Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3./ Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7/Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7
All verses listed above intentionally used by NT authors as pesher to make the point of who they believed Jesus was. Was done also in Dead Sea Scrolls and in OT texts themselves.
i agree. jews also believed that messiah will be warrior not one who bring miracles. jews understood it was of mohammed(pbuh). but they hated quran because God picked their much awaited prophet from ishmaelites not among them.
isaih 42 spoke of mohammed(pbuh) clearly and preaching of jesus(pbuh)was corrupted by paul who was never a apostle of jesus. jesus spoke of a holy prophet after him to whom paul made holy ghost. paul hated mohammed(pbuh) who was named by jesus, because paul was like other jews who hated ishmaelites(arabs)
There just so much background information that has to be covered on why and how belief systems developed before we can make the leap from the historical Yeshua to Paul to the anti-Pauline Ebionites. This was an age given over to religious syncretism & it can't be tackled in the few soundbite posts like those I've made here. :(
2 of 2 - So, YHVH is literally our Heavenly Father; hence, the Ebionites didn't subscribe to the Gentile understanding of the so-called "Virgin Birth" & saw Yosef & Mariam as being the biological parents of Yeshua & his siblings. The "new birth" or "being born again" is also something that must be understood from a Jewish POV. This happens when one's Good Impulse (Yetzer ha-Tov) is activated at the time they choose to become a Child of the Commandments, that is to say, a Child of YHVH.
1 of 2 - The Biblical Archaeology Society website has an interesting article from Bible Review: "How Early Christians Viewed the Birth of Jesus" by James E. Crouch. What the article doesn't touch upon is the Jewish POV that holds that YHVH's Spirit is an Agent in every child's conception - taking "this" from the male & combining it to "that" from the female. Ergo, the Holy Spirit overshadows the conception & birth of each child (Talmud Niddah 30a).
4. Hillel accepted all non-idolaters as being righteous enough & he taught his disciples not to be aloof; instead, they were to love & show kindness to all men! Hillel was a Chasid (Benevolent One), but not an Essene sectarian like Menachem. Not all Pharisaic Chasidim agreed with the extreme communal Separatism of the Essenes or their agenda to await the coming of a Militant Messiah. The Hillelites viewed this as being just as misguided as Shammai's brand of religio-Nationalistic Separatism.
3. Shammai had these liberal Hillelite prophets killed so he could win a vote to advance his own anti-Gentile Jewish Nationalist agenda, which aligned itself with the Zealots. Shammai usurped Menachem's vacant office & seized control of the Sanhedrin of 71 -- leaving Hillel in place as a figure-head out of fear of the plebeian masses. Shammai believed that Gentiles were inherently impure & would have no share in the World to Come, lest they become Full Converts (Gerim Tzedek) to Judaism.
2. The Religious Sanhedrin of 71 isn't the same as the Roman backed Political Sanhedrin that arrested Yeshua, which was led by Annas ben Seth, the Sadduccean mafia's patriarch. Hillel was the President of the Sanhedrin of 71 & the leader of a school of prophets. Menachem the Essene was Hillel's friend & Vice Pres. in the Sanhedrin of 71. When Shammai had Zealots kill a number of Hillel's prophets (c. 20-10 BCE), Menachem left his office & went to Damascus to join the Essene community there.
1. The ancient Chasidim (Benevolent Ones) gave rise to the Pharisees (Separatist), which were themselves split into a Liberal & Conservative school of thought represented by the poor plebeians whom Hillel the Elder championed & the rich patricians whom Shammai led. From the ancient Chasidim also sprang the extreme communal Separatists known today as the Essenes, who eschewed the religio-political corruptions in Jerusalem & prepared themselves for the coming Militant Messiah of the Last Days.
quran says apostles of jesus were ordered to worship Allah(yahweh or elohim) and they were ordered to abide by torah , offer daily prayer , pay zakaath(annual charity) and observe fasting. this was true preaching of historical jesus. then paul came along and started telling jesus was son of god who died on the cross and any one believe this need not to follow torah. then true followers of jesus rejected it and lead suparate life.
its bribe given by paul to attract romans. romans never loved jesus and his religion given by him. christianity is religion of paul not jesus. paul fooled ur elders.
The circumcision issue had been dealt with in Acts 15. Shaul & Bar Nabi were given letters authorizing them to function as Sheliachim (Emissaries) - to collect charity & to tell the Gentiles that they need only abstain from four things in order to have a share in the spiritual commonwealth of Yisrael. So, the Circumcision Party in Galatia can't be Judaizers from James or the Jewish Believers. In these Galatian opponents we see the forerunners of the Cerinthus school of Gnostic thought.
I have been checking out the links you sent. I got the Dead Sea Scroll/Early christian / James view point from dead sea Scrolls and the First Christians by Eisenman. I know you possibly shake your head and give a sigh before you type.LOL I do that at time when people mis somthing I think is importan. I want to thank-you for replying and bringing up these dicussions.
Paul defends himself & states he's an Apsotle of the Messiah -- not of men. These proto-Gnostics, however, reject that & inform the Galatians that Paul's traditions (masorahim) amount to nothing more than the traditions of mere men; whereas they are Pneumatic messengers of a gospel (good news), which contains salvific knowledge (gnosis) from "on-high." All the Galatians have to do is to accept the gnosis of this pneumatically inspired "good news" & then get circumcised.
Okay, Paul goes to Galatia & preaches there the traditions (masorahim) regarding repentance and the Kingdom of Heaven. After Paul leaves Galatia some proto-Gnostics, probably Hellenistic Jews given over to the religious syncretism of the Common Era, come along and start dogging him for his lack of "spirituality," because he's just a mere Emissary (Sheliach) from men, specifically an Apostle (Sheliach) from the leadership in Jerusalem, because he was given letters of authority (in Acts 15).
Paul's work was hi-jacked by the proto-Gnostics, who infected early Gentile Christian dogma. By the time the Ebionites came along Gentile Christianity had become antinomian, was given over to replacement theology & came to view the historical Yeshua as being Deity Himself or in some manner Divine. This caused the Jewish Believers to break with these Gentiles Churches & many melted back into Judaism; some vilified Paul, who was an Orthodox proto-rabbinic Jew & opposed the proto-Gnostics.
Which law are you speaking of? Christians still follow the mosaic law which was summed up and expanded upon by Jesus 2 commands. Not even the Jews practice Levitical law anymore. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law by his death. The wage of sin is not death anymore. Through contrite confession we are forgiven. If not then Jesus died for nothing.
God can never allow ppl to eat swine. paul abrogated laws of Moses in order to attract romans. His intention may be good but not accepted by God as God loves his laws more than anything.
these ebinotes were true followers of jesus as quran states. true followers of jesus were deemed as heretics and fake followers of paul were called christians. criminal church replaced truth with falsehood.
quran says that followers of jesus believed in unity not trinity and they abided by laws of torah(purified by jesus) and deemed jesus as prophet and messiah.
Great and fruitful comments. Listeners should realize the diversity of 1st through 3rd cent. Christianity. They also should know the gospels of the Ebionites and Nazarenes are not complete. They were supressed or just disappeared. Only small fragments remain, where they were quoted in commentaries by Jerome, Origen or Epiphanius. Finally, Are the dead sea scolls thought to be Ebionite or Essene?
Some are Essean But the language seems to me that this thinking would draw those from this group into the Ebionite community. There seems to be a bridge in thinking that was compose with all the end time writings they had. James and John the Baptist were thought by some to be Essean. Me personally I'm not sure.
as a muslim i believe the ebionite christians are the acutal real christian followers of jesus (AS) they must be...
why in the world would paul kill them???? and other sects tht he felt disobeyed his teachings.... paul never meet jesus yet he claims he knows everything about him....
Zanthios 4 weeks ago
paul is not jesus whom do u follow ?
sugerdrops 8 months ago
@sugerdrops Lady Virtue.
wayman29 8 months ago
@wayman29 thanx for your words i have some fro ebinites bible but its written in arabic do u want it ,its from masonic priest he wrote a book saying that islam was just copy of ebionites well ebionites bible is god words do god change his words change his story change his information ?and yet similar to torah ,we belive in ebionites ok i can try to translate for you some
sugerdrops 8 months ago
@sugerdrops what is the title of the text so I can look it up it sounds interesting.
wayman29 8 months ago
its in arabic Qass_wa_Nabi which means a priest and a prophet
sugerdrops 7 months ago
Respond to this video... there is in quran mention of jesus that he was making birds from clay and he blow into them and by god will it will be alive bird this was also mentioned in ebionites bible and if you can see the Wikipedia about bible or jesus in bible and quran they will give you notes that some bible scholars mentioned that as so
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 the author have two names either Joseph qazzi his real name or abou mossa al harirri
and some of quran versses in this book is talking about arab before islam he ignore before islame and took the rest and also this priest is died before prophet muhammed being a messenger he only told him that what prophet muhammed saw was an angel after this storey 3-4 years gabriel came back and tell to prophet he will be the messenger to arab
sugerdrops 7 months ago
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@wayman29 .. there is in quran mention of jesus that he was making birds from clay and he blow into them and by god will it will be alive bird this was also mentioned in ebionites bible and if you can see the Wikipedia about bible or jesus in bible and quran they will give you notes that some bible scholars mentioned that as so
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 there is also an interesting why did ebionites is is reserved in arabia there was a priest a mong he is the priest of bin saeeda he was 650 years old and he memorises the ebionites bible by heart and he always breech people in oukath market and he saw and meet St. Simeon ,he was a mircale by him self that he aged 650 years old on his death
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29
They will see with out vision and hear with out hearing and you dont under stand whats your hearing and you will not under stand seeing what you see and whats the vision ? The heart of this people may thicken have ears and hard they close their eyes so as not to see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and go back to the Ohvém to me to cure them Matthew 13:13 and Mark 4:10 and Luke 8: 9
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 Village you entered Ask about the generous , and stay there because the worker deserves his food and when you enter the house greet him.. They went calling people to repentance _ any house you enter say peace to this house and stay in that house, eat and drink what they have because the worker deserve his salary and any city you enter and they accepted you eat what they offer to you to bring you closer fto them ,&say the time of repentance become near Matthew 10:10 Luke 10: 5
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 Who said to his brother you are a fool necessitated to be throw to the fire of hell Mathew 5:22 you command People to carry the heavy loads and you do not even touch it with one of your fingers right Gospel of Matthew 23: 4Father whos sees in secret will reward you mathew 6:18
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 Beware of your righteousness dont do it infront of people to impress them and loss your pay ..like the hypocrites do to be praised by people .. They took their pay , if you give charity g in secret give in secret& your Father who in secret will reward you Matthew 6: 1-2If you want to be perfect, go, sell everything Matthew 19:21
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@wayman29 Too hard for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven because the camel can enters the hole of the needle easier than a rich to enter the kingdom of heaven Matthew 19:23Who was his father or mother or son or daughter beloved more than me is not worthy of me whenever 10:37 That those who listen to Moses and the prophets, will not be convinced even if one rise from death dead, Luke 16:31
sugerdrops 7 months ago
will jesus didnt came to destroey the jhudisams he came to correct it and complete it so any rule that is not mentioned in bible you should search for it in the old testemon,
sugerdrops 8 months ago
A Christian trying to explain an Ebionite ,just like a Christian trying to explain a Jew.lol,lol
odephraimchai 1 year ago
@odephraimchai lol i'm not a Christian lol,lol
wayman29 1 year ago
Hey,show me some a textual reference saying that Ebionites believed Jesus dies for sins.Tell me a heresiology saying that.
kmichael212 1 year ago
You call them "Ebonites", but the word is EBIONITES!
psandbergnz 1 year ago
@psandbergnz thanks for the correction. My accent is awful.
wayman29 1 year ago
@wayman29, thank you for the trouble you've gone to in researching this fascinating subject for your viewers.
psandbergnz 1 year ago
@psandbergnz More correctly its The Evyonim.
StephenWebb1980 1 year ago
@StephenWebb1980 yes the v=bet so it will prnonuce b
sugerdrops 8 months ago
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theseeker2k5 1 year ago
After Heraclius expelled the Ebionites from Edessa,they fled to Medina and spread their false gospel to the arabs ,one ebionite master taught mohamed his religion ,was Waraqua ibm Nawel
a ebionite priest?I think that this man was Gabreel who taught Mohamad his heretical religion
SonofJaphet 2 years ago
@SonofJaphet - someone gave you false information.
Here's some false points about your comment:
- There was no Medina, it was called Yathrib. Then after the Prophet left Mecca to Yathrib he changed the name to Medina
- No one taught Mohammed PBUH, he could not read or write and died that way.
- Waraqe Ibin Nawfal was the cousin of Khadeja, the prophets wife and he was a devout Christian that believed in the true religion, and believed that Jesus was not God.
RESEARCH My Friend.
isalhia 2 years ago
@isalhia no it was named yethreb and madina before prophet muhamed pbuh its an hebrew world wich is similar between arabs and hebrew ,warqa ibn nawfal died before islam declared to prophet muhamed because gabriel >after his first appearnce to prophet pbuh he disappeared for 3 years after that he came back to prophet muhamed declaring that now to start god massage to islm
sugerdrops 8 months ago
@sugerdrops - Hello! Yathrib was the name and Jew's lived there, because they where waiting for a prophet to come from among them. The word Madina means City. Muhammed PBUH did change the name from Yathrib to Madina. Waraqa died before the Message of Muhammed but the message of the Oneness of Allah was preached by true christians as well before they deviated. There's a difference of opinion on Gabriel coming 3 years later. Ibn Sa'd reported on the authority of Ibn Abbas that it was a few days
isalhia 7 months ago
@isalhia اكتب لك بالعربي . يثرب كانت تسمى تيماء و تسمى المدينة من قبل الرسول صلى الله عليه وتسمى دار سلام واليهود كانوا ينتظرون النبي الامي(genitels) والامي تعني من الامم الاخرى ومثل ما تفضلت ورقة بن نوفل لم يلحق على البعث وذلك ان الرسول صلى الله عليه لم يبعث الا بعد 3 سنوات من ظهور سيدنا جبريل بغار حراءوكذلك اقرأ عن قس بن ساعدة بابن كثير ونبوءة الرسول احمد بانجييل ابيونيين وقس بن ساعدة توفى اول الدعوة ولم يعلم بها عن عمر يناهز600سنة يحفظ انجيل الابيونين عن ظهر قلب واخذه من الحواري سمعان,
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@sugerdrops - Hello my laptop doesn't have the Arabic keys to type back to you but I what you wrote. I don't disagree much with what you wrote. There are different sources of information that we all use to do research, and even though they may seem as there taking different paths. They all lead to the same result or destination. I use a book called the Seal of the Nectar, Hadith and Quran to reference my information. But I don't rule out other information except if it conflicts with Quran.
isalhia 7 months ago
@isalhia Yathrib was called Taima, and is called the city by the Prophet Allah bless him and called the house of peace, the Jews were waiting for the illiterate Prophet (genitels) omi means of other nations, such as the kindly paper bin Nawfal, did not cause the resurrection and that the Prophet Muhammad, it did not matter, but after 3 years from the appearance gabriel heraa` Read about the priest the son of Ben sa3eda many prophecy prophet Ahmed in ebionites bible and died of 600 of age
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@isalhia im muslim to the monk or priest ben saeeda the ayady who died of age of 600yrs he memorized the ebionites bible by heart he lived since the rise of jesus and he met Simon the apostle till Muhammad pbuh but he died in first of declaring islam prophet muhamed saw hin in aukath market >you can read about him in bedaya o nehaya /ibn katheer the beginning and the ending
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@sugerdrops - I have heard of him and I will do more research on him. Thank you.
isalhia 7 months ago
@sugerdrops - I wanted to ask you, who do you worship and how do you worship him? If you don't mind me asking.
isalhia 7 months ago
@isalhia im muslim like you allah the god of abrahim i worship him by salat and faith and beliving in quran and all gods book enjeel =bible torah and all his massangers and prophet .the only one god
sugerdrops 7 months ago
@sugerdrops - Alhamdulillah Sister.
isalhia 6 months ago
@SonofJaphet what most of this claimed that christians when they refeer to quran they thought that it begin with the oldest to the new well its oppiste so nthe verseese that christians claimed its taken from ebonites bible the thought thats the first versess will its wrong these versses was descended after 23 years of islam so no way it was teached by warqa .and if this was true than why didnt the quraishen people didnt said it is from the ebonits >well god is one his words is one why u doubt
sugerdrops 8 months ago
@SonofJaphet any author you can know his way of writting its same as god ,beside Quran is mircle by its harmony of the word sounds and the perfection of its grammers.difficult for a littrute person to recits it .then how come islam+quran made the arabs bedo nade them to learn and love each other and became an empire ?why didnt the ebonites christians came so?
sugerdrops 8 months ago
didn't anyone beneath the missionary missions of paul ever protest any non - trinity christianity? I believe christianity was Muslim like until mohhamed became a prophet, that's when i believe that after mohhamed died , trinity (including jesus as god and son etc...) took effect over every single edge in europe, making europe the perverted west
papasmurfXXX 2 years ago
I misquoted Isaiah 42 in place of it I discribed Ezekiel 42 sorry! Isaiah 42 is about God calling his son into the world also quoted in Mat 12:20 from Isa42:3. still the same no mention of Mohammed. Question to ponder: If Isaiah is calling out Mohammed, why did time change in the time of Christ B.C. to A.D. this is roman time, right? and why did the Jews stop offering blood sacrifices? even they didnt believe he was the Christ? why not wait for Mohammed to arrive several hundred years later?
thumper196925 3 years ago
watch video "Isaiah 42 predicts Mohammed(pbuh) made by KINGKHAN2. It has 100% proof. then its upto you. but paul and authors of gospels attributed that to jesus which proves paul was not divinely guided. jesus does not meet criteria of isaiah 42 as isaiah called him servant who will set up laws,man of war and will be from kedar(ishmael's son).it was Mohammed not Jesus.(pbut)
tarantura420 3 years ago
OK ill bite. what exactly do mean by this. Are christians trying to hide islam inside our own bible? I think not. Kedar is mentioned 12 times in 11 verses. yes Ishmaels son.gen 16:12 calls ishmael a wild man whos hand will be aginst every man(much as it has been between his people and Israel from then till now)Kedar had 11 brothers making 12. Islam has 12 Imams there waiting on the 12th to to return to usher in the end of times.
thumper196925 3 years ago
Jesus had 12 disciples. satan is a liar and copies what god has established so we will see these simularities thruout history.any way, isa 42prophesy about jesus are fulfilled in mat12:18-20 if you want the rest to be about mohammed, ok. Im not convienced. But even if it is, can you see islam being a reinforcement of the foundation that Jesus set? I think not.They are a warring wild man religeon that will convert you by force and kill you if you try to leave.
thumper196925 3 years ago
Is God not capable of judgement?True Christians would let you do the same as God would, let you do Have free will.Not force you against your will. (some can be over bearing of course) but we are not going to beat or kill you if you dont want to believe what we say from the bible.I know, Iknow we christians have kill more in the name of God than all the wars. but this is not Gods doing its mans desire for power and control.and consider this, not all people had scripturue or could read at the time
thumper196925 3 years ago
If you are convienced that this passage is fortelling of mohammed, it may well be. This in no way makes him the messiah,apostle,priest or a follower of scripture. Islam has in the quran Gods law,the 10 commandments.they are as much accountable to them as you and I are. If we fail to keep them we are doomed.God has laid out in the torrah his plan of salvation. Calling out his Christ to die for your sins because he knows you cant keep his laws. will you believe and trust in him or your self?
thumper196925 3 years ago
we dont say Mohammed(pbuh) is messiah either. Messiah is not as significent as christians assume. Jesus is messiah coz his responsiblity to set up messianic kingdom when he comes back which will last for some time(7 0r 40 years). thats just one of sign of hour.and torah(both original and corrupted) never said that God will kill someone and we have to accept him as saviour. Only God is saviour as isaiah told. jesus was his servant.
tarantura420 3 years ago
It was Peter not Paul who first brought the gospel to the gentiles(romans,greeks) ect. see again acts 10.
God does indeed love his law,Why, because it brings us to the conclusion that we cant keep it and are in danger of un-favorable judgment and in need of his provided saviour-Jesus Christ. Dont consider the 214 precepts that go along with the law. the ten commandments are our doom. Think about it lies,theft lust of the heart, blasphemy,hatred... your doom is sealed. Repent and turn to Jesus!
thumper196925 3 years ago
You sited Isa 42 as mentioning mohammes? sorry its not there. 42 is about measuring the temple continued from chapt. 41 and into 43I did a search for mohammed and its various spellings and in many diffrent translations not there either- any explanation?
Muslims believe Jesus a profit and prehaps judas was on the cross insted.Their messiah is not Jesus. they await the 12thImam a desendant of mohammed couldnt be Jesus(prehaps the anti-christ) hes due on the scene about now!
thumper196925 3 years ago
whoever wrote the gospel of barnabas evidently was not from the "middle east region" because he would have known that Nazareth was not a seaport,Jesus couldnot have sailed to nazareth. perhaps he couldnt have been a muslim either because it contradicts the quran chapt 19:23about how mary brought foth Jesus- with pain or with out pain? daniel being only 2years old at the time of captivity? how could this be concidered as accurate?
thumper196925 3 years ago
that was past. may be river was there then.we cant say who wrote it. ya it goes against quran too. may be it is also not 100% perfect. but it is better than new testament which has pagan beliefs.
tarantura420 3 years ago
the eating of swine was refuted in Acts 10 of peters dream of being told to kill and eat the defiled/four footed animals he refused to do so because they were unholy and was told not to call unholy what God had made holy.
The Jews had many misconceptions of messiah. too many to list along with the Quranand its own self contradictionseven the muslims read of jesus being messiah but ask them, hes only a profit.
thumper196925 3 years ago
whats contradiction there? messiha is prophet not God. even bible called cyrus( a holy man who followed preaching of prophet zoroaster)a messiah. man is mammal, an animal with brain. man does s ex,eat food and sleep like other animals. so can God turn him into human(animal) form? God is holy one. Jesus was man like us. he ate food,slept,answered acll of nature,inside womb of mother for 9 months,breast fed. man dont be pagan. God honors you if u honor him.
tarantura420 3 years ago
Thanks for the reply! See the video I did on the topic. Entitled "Christains! Muslims! Proof Of Muhammad (pbuh) In The Bible!!"
wayman29 3 years ago
Man is not an animal...just like a dolphin is a fish in GODs original classification...those are just mans classifications
jdigitalseven 2 years ago
yasewha was a human sent from God. who said he was not? he was killed and never said he was any different from human.
mountain19 3 years ago
Excellent exchanges going on here people. Great discussions on the topic!
wayman29 4 years ago
related video on Jewish Christianity's roots in Judaism:
ANCIENT ISRAEL-EXODUS, EXILE, EMPIRE
Ecothearcy 4 years ago
It seems according to the posts here that some have the idea that Paul was against preaching the Law. I do not find this true. Ro 3:31" Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Ro 4:13 " For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith." where is he wrong in all his writings?
B0thergirl 4 years ago
The problem with looking back to find the truth is when you realize each culture tried to hang on to there old ways. That is why the people were/are divided. Believers were/are given the Holy Spirit to guide them. We may not all be guided in the same direction but still according to the will of God for his purpose. Unity lies in our Love for God the Almighty.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
In early Byzantine christianity there was a fraction called Arian christians who thought that Jesus was just human!
The other fraction was the nestorians who claimed that Jesus was man and God!
The Arians lost the struggle within christrianity and as we see today the nestorian concept of God dominates the Christians!
Saladdin65 4 years ago
In study of the scriptures I have to agree with the Arians. Although Jesus is divine, 'godlike', he is not God. Jesus never claimed to be God.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
The Ebionites thought Jesus was fully human and a prophet and the Messiah. Just like in Islam.
Ramonoi899 4 years ago
Christian's teach that too.
Psalm130 4 years ago
From the little I know Muslims, like the Jews, do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
I'm a Muslim so I think I would know. "Christ Jesus", "the Messiah son of Mary" make it clear in Quran.
Ramonoi899 4 years ago
Thank you for educating me. I do appreciate it. I am trying to learn about Islam but I just started.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
muslims believe jesus as messiah. he will come back and set messianic kingdom for 40 or 7 years. he will fight against pagans and in his rule no animal will kill other. no poverty or tax will bethere. its temporary and after his death , ppl become bad and God will destroy world and after some time God will resurrect all on judgment day. this is muslim view of jesus.
tarantura420 3 years ago
read gospel of barnabas which called paul a liar and mentioned the name of mohamed(pbuh). this gospel is hidden by church in emperial library austria. it was banned by church and kept in library. it was taken out by a spaniard called fra marino in 16th century and church initialy attributed that to muslims and later blamed fra marino. but still some copies were published by one american press which i read.
tarantura420 3 years ago
and ya christians are saying that gospel of barnabas was written by muslims to fool ppl. so we have one solution for that.we can calculate the age of paper of that book through various methods which science developed today. if its age crosses 1400 years it will be proved it was written before the birth of Mohammed(pbuh). are xians ready for that? if they r sincere they should. but i am sure xians wont do that. they never want to accept truth.
tarantura420 3 years ago
you could refute christian doctrine even further buy calling us copy-cats as well being as threr are several instances of virgin birth,death and ressurection of that son in pagan history. but God has called them out. cimeramus= istar=ashera=nefertiti + others =our pagan easter. She is the virgin mother of tamu who died and rose three days later and they celebrated his resurection by colering eggs,his birthday is december 25th AKA nimrod of the tower of babyl and Baal+others shall I go on?
thumper196925 3 years ago
I have also noticed this in gospel of Barnabas, also Enoch, Daniel, And most of the apocalyptic groups of the Dead sea scrolls, Testaments of the Patriarchs, the Zend Avesta, Some Vedic ideas, Ben Sierra, Testament/odes of Solomon, Tobit, Daniel, Ezekiel , Jeremiah,Isaiah,And believe it or not Hebrews, Revelation, small parts of Galatians, and Corinthians. Post the Near Eastern proof text or where it can be found for the Easter topic you discussed above. You talking about Greco/Roman Isis ideas?
wayman29 3 years ago
Don't like the term "copy" Because everyone seems to have exchanged ideas in this way. There is no such thing as pure culture.
wayman29 3 years ago
I am interested in understanding Islam but I am confused about something. If Muslims believe Jesus is the Messiah but yet do not believe he was crucified what made him the Messiah? The whole point was that he was crucified died, was buried and rose again to fulfill scripture. What makes him Messiah to Muslims? I am really trying to understand.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
There is nothing in the Jewish Scriptues that state the Messiah would be killed and then rise from the dead. Jesus was allowed to change some of the Torah Laws. His teachings (the Gospel) replaced the teachings of the Torah. He made the laws less strict. There's more to it....read the Quran and find out ; )
Ramonoi899 4 years ago
Not believed: Is.53:1; Is.53:3,
Jesus' Crucifiction and Burial
Ps.22:16 ;Ps 22:18; Isa.53:12; Ps.22:15; Ps.69:21;Ps 34:20; Zec.12:10; Ps.22:1; Isa.53:4-5 ;s. 53:6, 12; Isa.53:9; Zec.13:7 ;Daniel 9:25
Jesus rising from the Dead Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15/ Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10./Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3./ Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7/Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7
B0thergirl 4 years ago
All verses listed above intentionally used by NT authors as pesher to make the point of who they believed Jesus was. Was done also in Dead Sea Scrolls and in OT texts themselves.
wayman29 4 years ago
pesher?
B0thergirl 4 years ago
i agree. jews also believed that messiah will be warrior not one who bring miracles. jews understood it was of mohammed(pbuh). but they hated quran because God picked their much awaited prophet from ishmaelites not among them.
tarantura420 3 years ago
isaih 42 spoke of mohammed(pbuh) clearly and preaching of jesus(pbuh)was corrupted by paul who was never a apostle of jesus. jesus spoke of a holy prophet after him to whom paul made holy ghost. paul hated mohammed(pbuh) who was named by jesus, because paul was like other jews who hated ishmaelites(arabs)
tarantura420 3 years ago
There just so much background information that has to be covered on why and how belief systems developed before we can make the leap from the historical Yeshua to Paul to the anti-Pauline Ebionites. This was an age given over to religious syncretism & it can't be tackled in the few soundbite posts like those I've made here. :(
smadewell 4 years ago
2 of 2 - So, YHVH is literally our Heavenly Father; hence, the Ebionites didn't subscribe to the Gentile understanding of the so-called "Virgin Birth" & saw Yosef & Mariam as being the biological parents of Yeshua & his siblings. The "new birth" or "being born again" is also something that must be understood from a Jewish POV. This happens when one's Good Impulse (Yetzer ha-Tov) is activated at the time they choose to become a Child of the Commandments, that is to say, a Child of YHVH.
smadewell 4 years ago
1 of 2 - The Biblical Archaeology Society website has an interesting article from Bible Review: "How Early Christians Viewed the Birth of Jesus" by James E. Crouch. What the article doesn't touch upon is the Jewish POV that holds that YHVH's Spirit is an Agent in every child's conception - taking "this" from the male & combining it to "that" from the female. Ergo, the Holy Spirit overshadows the conception & birth of each child (Talmud Niddah 30a).
smadewell 4 years ago
4. Hillel accepted all non-idolaters as being righteous enough & he taught his disciples not to be aloof; instead, they were to love & show kindness to all men! Hillel was a Chasid (Benevolent One), but not an Essene sectarian like Menachem. Not all Pharisaic Chasidim agreed with the extreme communal Separatism of the Essenes or their agenda to await the coming of a Militant Messiah. The Hillelites viewed this as being just as misguided as Shammai's brand of religio-Nationalistic Separatism.
smadewell 4 years ago
3. Shammai had these liberal Hillelite prophets killed so he could win a vote to advance his own anti-Gentile Jewish Nationalist agenda, which aligned itself with the Zealots. Shammai usurped Menachem's vacant office & seized control of the Sanhedrin of 71 -- leaving Hillel in place as a figure-head out of fear of the plebeian masses. Shammai believed that Gentiles were inherently impure & would have no share in the World to Come, lest they become Full Converts (Gerim Tzedek) to Judaism.
smadewell 4 years ago
2. The Religious Sanhedrin of 71 isn't the same as the Roman backed Political Sanhedrin that arrested Yeshua, which was led by Annas ben Seth, the Sadduccean mafia's patriarch. Hillel was the President of the Sanhedrin of 71 & the leader of a school of prophets. Menachem the Essene was Hillel's friend & Vice Pres. in the Sanhedrin of 71. When Shammai had Zealots kill a number of Hillel's prophets (c. 20-10 BCE), Menachem left his office & went to Damascus to join the Essene community there.
smadewell 4 years ago
1. The ancient Chasidim (Benevolent Ones) gave rise to the Pharisees (Separatist), which were themselves split into a Liberal & Conservative school of thought represented by the poor plebeians whom Hillel the Elder championed & the rich patricians whom Shammai led. From the ancient Chasidim also sprang the extreme communal Separatists known today as the Essenes, who eschewed the religio-political corruptions in Jerusalem & prepared themselves for the coming Militant Messiah of the Last Days.
smadewell 4 years ago
quran says apostles of jesus were ordered to worship Allah(yahweh or elohim) and they were ordered to abide by torah , offer daily prayer , pay zakaath(annual charity) and observe fasting. this was true preaching of historical jesus. then paul came along and started telling jesus was son of god who died on the cross and any one believe this need not to follow torah. then true followers of jesus rejected it and lead suparate life.
tarantura420 4 years ago
That is not the truth. We need not follow Levitical Law but Jesus upheld and expanded the Law given to Moses. Paul never disagreed with this.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
its bribe given by paul to attract romans. romans never loved jesus and his religion given by him. christianity is religion of paul not jesus. paul fooled ur elders.
tarantura420 3 years ago
The circumcision issue had been dealt with in Acts 15. Shaul & Bar Nabi were given letters authorizing them to function as Sheliachim (Emissaries) - to collect charity & to tell the Gentiles that they need only abstain from four things in order to have a share in the spiritual commonwealth of Yisrael. So, the Circumcision Party in Galatia can't be Judaizers from James or the Jewish Believers. In these Galatian opponents we see the forerunners of the Cerinthus school of Gnostic thought.
smadewell 4 years ago
Hey thanks for coming on and explaining this angle. You have been most helpful. Your helping me sort out the mess in my head and all this stuff!
wayman29 4 years ago
I just wanted to let you know about a new book coming out called "The Spirit of the Church" by Neufeld and Sterling (Tate Publishing)
You will like it! R. Humpal, JD
thehuncher 4 years ago
Thanks! I'll take a look!
wayman29 4 years ago
I have been checking out the links you sent. I got the Dead Sea Scroll/Early christian / James view point from dead sea Scrolls and the First Christians by Eisenman. I know you possibly shake your head and give a sigh before you type.LOL I do that at time when people mis somthing I think is importan. I want to thank-you for replying and bringing up these dicussions.
wayman29 4 years ago
Paul defends himself & states he's an Apsotle of the Messiah -- not of men. These proto-Gnostics, however, reject that & inform the Galatians that Paul's traditions (masorahim) amount to nothing more than the traditions of mere men; whereas they are Pneumatic messengers of a gospel (good news), which contains salvific knowledge (gnosis) from "on-high." All the Galatians have to do is to accept the gnosis of this pneumatically inspired "good news" & then get circumcised.
smadewell 4 years ago
Okay, Paul goes to Galatia & preaches there the traditions (masorahim) regarding repentance and the Kingdom of Heaven. After Paul leaves Galatia some proto-Gnostics, probably Hellenistic Jews given over to the religious syncretism of the Common Era, come along and start dogging him for his lack of "spirituality," because he's just a mere Emissary (Sheliach) from men, specifically an Apostle (Sheliach) from the leadership in Jerusalem, because he was given letters of authority (in Acts 15).
smadewell 4 years ago
Paul's work was hi-jacked by the proto-Gnostics, who infected early Gentile Christian dogma. By the time the Ebionites came along Gentile Christianity had become antinomian, was given over to replacement theology & came to view the historical Yeshua as being Deity Himself or in some manner Divine. This caused the Jewish Believers to break with these Gentiles Churches & many melted back into Judaism; some vilified Paul, who was an Orthodox proto-rabbinic Jew & opposed the proto-Gnostics.
smadewell 4 years ago
Which law are you speaking of? Christians still follow the mosaic law which was summed up and expanded upon by Jesus 2 commands. Not even the Jews practice Levitical law anymore. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law by his death. The wage of sin is not death anymore. Through contrite confession we are forgiven. If not then Jesus died for nothing.
B0thergirl 4 years ago
God can never allow ppl to eat swine. paul abrogated laws of Moses in order to attract romans. His intention may be good but not accepted by God as God loves his laws more than anything.
tarantura420 3 years ago
these ebinotes were true followers of jesus as quran states. true followers of jesus were deemed as heretics and fake followers of paul were called christians. criminal church replaced truth with falsehood.
tarantura420 4 years ago
I have not read or studied enough of the Quran to pick thses comparisons up. Thanks for pointing out this view.
wayman29 4 years ago
quran says that followers of jesus believed in unity not trinity and they abided by laws of torah(purified by jesus) and deemed jesus as prophet and messiah.
this is for your information. thanks.
tarantura420 3 years ago
Great and fruitful comments. Listeners should realize the diversity of 1st through 3rd cent. Christianity. They also should know the gospels of the Ebionites and Nazarenes are not complete. They were supressed or just disappeared. Only small fragments remain, where they were quoted in commentaries by Jerome, Origen or Epiphanius. Finally, Are the dead sea scolls thought to be Ebionite or Essene?
Irenaeus1 4 years ago
Some are Essean But the language seems to me that this thinking would draw those from this group into the Ebionite community. There seems to be a bridge in thinking that was compose with all the end time writings they had. James and John the Baptist were thought by some to be Essean. Me personally I'm not sure.
wayman29 4 years ago
Great Video. I enjoyed it very much.
Have a wonderful day.
(((Hugs))) to you & Mrs. Wayman...
Paula
CagedSongBird 4 years ago
Great Series
GregMonroeVlog 4 years ago