10. Sign a Hold Harmless liability form. (Both pilot and spouse)
11. Be accepted by all current Team pilots.
* Any or all of the above qualifications are subject to change at any time due to the type of show the Team might perform (flat or aerobatic) and/or insurance requirements.
7. In addition to number six, a prospective Team member will demonstrate through knowledge of each position functions during the show routine. Also the candidate will know and understand any and all Team protocols, whether ground or flight related. (i.e. Lost Wingman and Station Keeping Protocols.)
8. Demonstrate individual aerobatic ability to two designated Team check pilots.
6. Extensive practice with the team in any position so as to convince all participants as to his / her competency in said position. Typically, three satisfactory repetitions of the full show routine, as witnessed by any back-seater and other pilots in the flight will serve as a pilot's final exam for team certification.
5. Own or have access to a T-34 with Lima Lima paint, equipment and insurance. Aircraft will be maintained in an airworthy condition and be certified for instrument flight.
Lol at the guys calling this illegal. There is nothing in the FAR/AIM that prohibits this. All you have to do to have formation flight is each PIC agree to it before the flight. This video was awesome to watch...wish I had the flying skills of these pilots. I have a mere CSEL/ IFR rating.
Absolutely spectacular. Very nice work. Inspiring, actually...makes me wanna go out and do some formation work, although I might start out in VMC first :)
Beautiful Video..takes real brass to do this stuff...I am IFR rated but no formation training. I'm sure glad there are Military people willing to fly this way when necessary for our freedoms in the USA.
I think these guys are real bad asses just so you know, also the fact that their in navy mentors would probably mean that theyre mil pilots, just a thought though
To all the alarmed armchair pilots out there. There is nothing illegal about this. There is nothing unsafe about this. YES it would be illegal and very ill advised if you guys did this. So, stay in your little BOX and let the pilots do the flying.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Yes, this is def. illegal. You can't fly formation in IMC conditions in cloud!! These pilots may have good skill, but if the cloud thickens and vis. goes down, they might now be able to even see each other 10 feet away
Weather this is legal or not, it does show that there is a significant difference between skill and common sense. Good flying skills yes. Danger to themselves and the people that they fly over you bet!
In 17 years of flying with the team I have declared "#2 Lost Wingman" twice. Each time I lost sight of the lead aircraft just ten feet away. The Lost Wingman procedure is pre-briefed and has the #2 or #3 pilots turning 30 degrees away from the lead aircraft and descending at least 500 feet. While this is happening, the lead is introducing the "Lost Wingman" to ATC as a new IFR flight. You never go into the soup without being IFR current and with the appropriate charts and plates at the ready.
As long as all pilots are IFR current and their aircraft are IFR equipped it is considered a formation IFR flight. ATC only talks to the leader and the two wingman listen on their second radio to keep updated.
Coyboys playing games that do not need to be played. I am not even sure formation approaches in actual are even legal. Even if it is leagl it sure looks stupid.
We don't consider ourselves cowboys but rather a group of highly skilled pilots who have been flying formation (day, night and IFR) for over twenty years. You can't count on good weather all the way to an airshow that might be over 1000 miles away. And what happens when you do fly into a cloud at night without warning? You had better be practiced in the art of IFR formation flying and be flying a properly equiped aircraft and a current IFR rating.
The way you do not worry about flying into a cloud at night without warning is to fly individually. I understand our military doing it. I understand it in DAY VFR for show cowboys. I do not understand or approve of it in actual or at night when it's just a bunch of show pilots. I think it goes against I think it is a violation of 91.13. There are no specific FAR's exempting this action and it seems to be reckless as there is no need for such operations by other than military flights.
no one is asking your opinion still legal to fly in IFR in formation show me where it says it doesnt besides read it carefully when you filed IFR you are not operating recklessly it also doesnt prohibit night or day formation you do however need the permition of the pilot who you intent to fly formation with, you're just plain wrong
My opinion will be moot after somebody gets killed doing this. I can see it on Fox now: "Show pilots fly within feet of each other in the clouds and lose control and kill innocent people". The FAA would eat these guys alive if they hurt somebody. By the way...u r a punk!
You are a moron, it's called MARSA... I'm a controller at an AFB and this is perfectly legal and happens all the time... they are able to talk to each other to know what the other is doing... in case they lose sight. You need to shut you mouth about topics you know jack about.
Whenever there is convective activity or turbulent air in general, we do file seperately. However when it's smooth air, formation IFR really hones one's formation skill set.
I think this and the other video you have posted here are just fantastic!
cleekmaker00 5 months ago
Where did the left wingman went? It looks like there was no space to the left when the leader landed.
bukusuma 6 months ago
Very, very nice. Well done.
BeNiceYall 8 months ago
So how do you get around the 5 mile separation rule?
redfox435cat 10 months ago
Wow!!.. This is the first IFR team at a final approach I ever seen!
And what a fantastic landing!
Congratulations Lima Lima3!!!!
cmtalessandro 1 year ago
wow that looks bad
flightTime123 1 year ago
Lima Lima Team Qualification Criteria* IV
10. Sign a Hold Harmless liability form. (Both pilot and spouse)
11. Be accepted by all current Team pilots.
* Any or all of the above qualifications are subject to change at any time due to the type of show the Team might perform (flat or aerobatic) and/or insurance requirements.
LimaLima3 1 year ago
Lima Lima Team Qualification Criteria* III
7. In addition to number six, a prospective Team member will demonstrate through knowledge of each position functions during the show routine. Also the candidate will know and understand any and all Team protocols, whether ground or flight related. (i.e. Lost Wingman and Station Keeping Protocols.)
8. Demonstrate individual aerobatic ability to two designated Team check pilots.
9. Acquire appropriate Team uniforms.
LimaLima3 1 year ago
Lima Lima Team Qualification Criteria* II
6. Extensive practice with the team in any position so as to convince all participants as to his / her competency in said position. Typically, three satisfactory repetitions of the full show routine, as witnessed by any back-seater and other pilots in the flight will serve as a pilot's final exam for team certification.
LimaLima3 1 year ago
Lima Lima Team Qualification Criteria* I
1. Commercial license.
2. First or Second Class Medical.
3. Instrument Rating (currency maintained).
4. Current T-34 Association Formation Card.
5. Own or have access to a T-34 with Lima Lima paint, equipment and insurance. Aircraft will be maintained in an airworthy condition and be certified for instrument flight.
LimaLima3 1 year ago
How does one get to apply for the lima lima team, do you need to buy a mentor? are all of you guys friends from the Air Force or something?
marick626 1 year ago
I was thinking it was Lima Peru xD
cuboperu 1 year ago
amazing insight into formation flying and the IMC made it even better. thank you
suburbanstyles 1 year ago
Lol at the guys calling this illegal. There is nothing in the FAR/AIM that prohibits this. All you have to do to have formation flight is each PIC agree to it before the flight. This video was awesome to watch...wish I had the flying skills of these pilots. I have a mere CSEL/ IFR rating.
tehMISCftw 1 year ago 2
Absolutely spectacular. Very nice work. Inspiring, actually...makes me wanna go out and do some formation work, although I might start out in VMC first :)
coma13794 1 year ago
Beautiful Video..takes real brass to do this stuff...I am IFR rated but no formation training. I'm sure glad there are Military people willing to fly this way when necessary for our freedoms in the USA.
AMooneyPilot 2 years ago
I think these guys are real bad asses just so you know, also the fact that their in navy mentors would probably mean that theyre mil pilots, just a thought though
mamaz1113 2 years ago
too big a balls for me ...! Hard enough to do solo....Great airplane though, a version of the old Bonanza..
wrh61 2 years ago
Quite impressive!
cleekmaker00 2 years ago
To all the alarmed armchair pilots out there. There is nothing illegal about this. There is nothing unsafe about this. YES it would be illegal and very ill advised if you guys did this. So, stay in your little BOX and let the pilots do the flying.
tbgallien 2 years ago 8
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yes, this is def. illegal. You can't fly formation in IMC conditions in cloud!! These pilots may have good skill, but if the cloud thickens and vis. goes down, they might now be able to even see each other 10 feet away
pocopilot 2 years ago
@pocopilot are u that stupid?
lunchbag08 7 months ago
Weather this is legal or not, it does show that there is a significant difference between skill and common sense. Good flying skills yes. Danger to themselves and the people that they fly over you bet!
flyacf 2 years ago
Oh my god !!! nice job men !!! wow !
combarbala 2 years ago
In 17 years of flying with the team I have declared "#2 Lost Wingman" twice. Each time I lost sight of the lead aircraft just ten feet away. The Lost Wingman procedure is pre-briefed and has the #2 or #3 pilots turning 30 degrees away from the lead aircraft and descending at least 500 feet. While this is happening, the lead is introducing the "Lost Wingman" to ATC as a new IFR flight. You never go into the soup without being IFR current and with the appropriate charts and plates at the ready.
LimaLima3 2 years ago 6
thank you some people just cant plain grasp the concept that some people are better than themselves :D great flying would like to see more!
N9602FL 2 years ago 2
Awesome. Just plain awesome.
I do wonder though, does the soup ever get thick enough so that you can't maintain visual with the other planes?
I've been in actual that certainly seemed like it would be.
7thGearProductions 2 years ago
hey, dupage airport! awesome video, the LL's are always a great sight
ad1131 2 years ago
As long as all pilots are IFR current and their aircraft are IFR equipped it is considered a formation IFR flight. ATC only talks to the leader and the two wingman listen on their second radio to keep updated.
LimaLima3 2 years ago
I did not know that was legal. Incredible stuff!
almore1999 2 years ago
Practice, practice and then more practice!
LimaLima3 2 years ago 2
beautiful and you guys are very skilled i would like to get to that level some day
N9602FL 2 years ago
Coyboys playing games that do not need to be played. I am not even sure formation approaches in actual are even legal. Even if it is leagl it sure looks stupid.
RoyalTouchServices 2 years ago
We don't consider ourselves cowboys but rather a group of highly skilled pilots who have been flying formation (day, night and IFR) for over twenty years. You can't count on good weather all the way to an airshow that might be over 1000 miles away. And what happens when you do fly into a cloud at night without warning? You had better be practiced in the art of IFR formation flying and be flying a properly equiped aircraft and a current IFR rating.
LimaLima3 2 years ago
its legal to fly ifr in formation and plus dont be jealous
N9602FL 2 years ago 4
The way you do not worry about flying into a cloud at night without warning is to fly individually. I understand our military doing it. I understand it in DAY VFR for show cowboys. I do not understand or approve of it in actual or at night when it's just a bunch of show pilots. I think it goes against I think it is a violation of 91.13. There are no specific FAR's exempting this action and it seems to be reckless as there is no need for such operations by other than military flights.
builder2b 2 years ago
no one is asking your opinion still legal to fly in IFR in formation show me where it says it doesnt besides read it carefully when you filed IFR you are not operating recklessly it also doesnt prohibit night or day formation you do however need the permition of the pilot who you intent to fly formation with, you're just plain wrong
N9602FL 2 years ago
My opinion will be moot after somebody gets killed doing this. I can see it on Fox now: "Show pilots fly within feet of each other in the clouds and lose control and kill innocent people". The FAA would eat these guys alive if they hurt somebody. By the way...u r a punk!
builder2b 2 years ago
but i has not happened yet so your opinion still moot, thats why these guys are profesionals
N9602FL 2 years ago
You are a moron, it's called MARSA... I'm a controller at an AFB and this is perfectly legal and happens all the time... they are able to talk to each other to know what the other is doing... in case they lose sight. You need to shut you mouth about topics you know jack about.
thebloody1 2 years ago
MARSA? Really? Military acronyms applied to civilian flights? And I'm the moron huh?
builder2b 2 years ago
Sorry guess I wasn't paying attention to this being a civilian flight, my mistake.
thebloody1 2 years ago
beautiful!! winds look very calm and that touch down was very nice. Couldnt get any better than that... BRAVO ZULU
N23453 2 years ago
Comment removed
kwkspectre 2 years ago
Whenever there is convective activity or turbulent air in general, we do file seperately. However when it's smooth air, formation IFR really hones one's formation skill set.
LimaLima3 2 years ago
Impressive, but wouldn't it have been safer to just shoot separate approaches?
mjkobb 2 years ago
Awesome!
zildjiandrummr12 2 years ago
All in a days work if you are in the airshow buisness!
LimaLima3 2 years ago
thats amazing!
iflyc77 2 years ago