RPG Notes Form Over Function Revisted Pathfinder & D&D

[karyouonigami]

@woodwwad: that seems like it takes half the fun away, makeing your own bad-ass charecter seems more fun than trying to copy someone elses idea.

[woodwwad]

@karyouonigami I totally agree with you there.

[karyouonigami]

People really pull "builds" off the net to play? I dont even like playing the same "type" of fighter twice little lone someone elses "build". on a side note I cant remember the last time i chose to use a long sword or a short sword for that matter

[woodwwad]

@karyouonigami Very nice, you are certainly doing it correctly. Yes, sadly people do, start googleing builds, you'll see people asking for help with theirs all the time or asking for the best build for their "concept" which is nothing more than high AC, damage, magic, ect.

[psycho785]

Good video, though a bit extreme in some cases. I don't know if it's reasonable to just ban longswords wholesale, but at the same time I do agree that other weapons have more flavor. I think the catch is that it isn't always good to do something different just for the sake of being different. Longswords can be fun too - especially if it's the sword of the long lost crusader in your family tree that's emblazoned with your family crest... yada, yada, yada. I agree overall though.

[woodwwad]

@psycho785 I have a lot of NPCs use them but I just get so tired of seeing those two weapons. They are just minus to me. Maybe in a decade I'll be okay with them again, we'll have to see.

[murphysborounderdark]

It is crazy to me to think that role playing games have been around this long and people still don't get these basic concepts of a role playing game. I'm sure with most of your viewers you are preaching to the choir, but what about those other people? Why are they even showing up to their group every week? Perhaps more importantly, who is inviting these people to show up?

[woodwwad]

@murphysborounderdark Hell, you can find it in any game shop you go to. People that have been playing longer than me & still don't get it at all. I don't know who is inviting them, but that is a good point, who & why?

[murphysborounderdark]

@woodwwad Man, I need to figure out what is wrong with my uploading of videos and get back into this stuff. I love talking about it with you guys.

[woodwwad]

@murphysborounderdark Hope you can figure that out. Technical problems are certainly a pain.

[skuzzyknuckles]

Well put, all the way around. Especially when comparing video game RPG mentality to tabletop RPG mentality. A character who builds because it is something his/her character would do..always thumbs up, A character who builds because they somehow think they can"win"? That is beyond thumbs down and you will quickly quit my game.

[woodwwad]

@skuzzyknuckles Yes, you are with me for sure.

[23penguins32]

Great advice. Especially sacrificing Alokov ! I wonder how many people who find themselves not enjoying an RPG tabletop game have actually just screwed themselves out of a good time because of the choices they made in character creation. And preconceptions too. That's why I always talk a great deal with players before the start of a game, before even the PC creation. 'What do you really want to play?' is one of the best questions to ask. Among many others.

Can't reply to your PM due to YT.

[woodwwad]

@23penguins32 Yes, sacrificing alokov is an idea we can all get with for sure. I think a lot of people have screwed themselves like that for sure. Yes, that is really a good question.

[SailorBarsoom]

My first characters weren't even min/maxed. Didn't have the skill. I think min/maxing was sort of what I was trying to do, but yuck.

Fell in with a group of experienced gamers who really went all-out on creating cool characters. Been a fan of that ever since.

I try to look at it as: what if this were a TV show? Would anybody say, "That Perdita, she's my favorite. Glad she renewed her contract this season."

[woodwwad]

@SailorBarsoom Sure min/maxing is a bit of a skill, I agree with that. Glad to hear you were able to make it in with skilled, talented players that is a huge bonus for you.

Man, you are totally on the same page as me with that. Looking at the game as a TV show, it gives you a great base.

[SaudiLindsey4]

You can't sacrifice Alokov! I need him to gm for me. Had to go back and watch the older form over function video after seeing this one. It's cool to compare and contrast. The biggest difference I noticed was that nowadays you seem more comfortable with yourself making these videos than you did back then. You're more in-your-face and engaging to us you tubers who watch now. But your content was still great even a year ago. Keep preaching the good word from your leather throne man!

[woodwwad]

@SaudiLindsey4 Alex is a good player, we are playing currently, I'm sure he'll do a good job running your game. At first, I was trying to figure out what sort of 'voice' to use from youtube. Then two of my friends told me just be me, that I'd loose some subscribers but get a lot more, as they figured a lot of people on youtube would enjoy my sense of humor which has seemed to be right to the money.

[SaudiLindsey4]

@woodwwad It works, you have a great sense of humor and screen presence. Must be that southern opulence you got going for ya.

[woodwwad]

@SaudiLindsey4 Lol, thank you.

[QI1994]

I joined a week ago to this channel, and i watched this vid (the old version) um 6 days ago, yeah xD

[woodwwad]

@QI1994 Glad to hear that. I always appreciate new viewers.

[cockroach2]

You talk alot about how not to let down your gamemaster and the other players by powergaming, but I'm kinda in the opposite situation. I'm playing Pathfinder with a group of people who, while they all know the rules far better than I do, seem to have no interest in immersive role-playing, and base their entire characters around minmaxing. I want to start a new campaign of my own thats more immersive, but I'm afraid due to my ignorance of the system (relative to them) noone will take me seriously

[woodwwad]

@cockroach2 Sadly, a lot of players will play like that. Some of them might be redeemable but some might not. 1 of the truths of rp is you must chose carefully the people whom you play with. You might well have that problem, but it isn't a bad attempt. You can give it a try. You may well want to tighten up on the rules though, as your point is totally valid there.

[falloutmnky]

I once had a great sword wielding elven bard he ended up too close with a mindflayer once and ended up killing it with its own Kukri it was kind of awesome. probably one of my favorite characters ever.

[woodwwad]

@falloutmnky Wow, killing a mind flayer is nice. I rarely encountered them in games. They are at the top of my favorites list from the monster manual.

[tetsubo57]

I love characters. But people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan. Having a 20 level build gives you an idea what direction you are headed.

Any gamer that doesn't know what a glaive is isn't worthy of the title.

What about a mage the specialized in Magic Missiles? Built their entire career around that spell?

[SailorBarsoom]

@tetsubo57

Fizbin seemed to build his around Fireball. But then, there's more to Fizbin...

[woodwwad]

@SailorBarsoom I really disliked the Fizbin character

[SailorBarsoom]

@woodwwad

I suspect He's one of those love-Him-or-hate-Him characters, like Chibiusa.

Or Jar-Jar Binks, but the less said about HIM the better!

[woodwwad]

@SailorBarsoom hmm, I didn't know anyone loved Binks

[woodwwad]

@tetsubo57 You certainly could do that. The spell is really overused though & I find using other 1st level spells more interesting.

[alokov]

I kinda wish I hadn't taken Spellcraft now. 

[woodwwad]

@alokov say no more

[felipe1gojira]

To the floor with numbers! Make that character 3dimensional instead of 2d sheet with stats. :) In short I agree and I have a similar problem with my players on this subject, to which I am dealing with.

[woodwwad]

@felipe1gojira Absolutely #ers are the ballz, play the game.

[doombybbr]

a cool character? someone who weilds a greatsword in ONE HAND..... I don't care about the to hit bonus, IT IS BADASS!!!

[woodwwad]

@doombybbr One of my friends has a huge barbarian 6'8 human, who'll do stuff like that. Great character.

[ModernDnD]

First of all, thank you for the channel plug! I'll try to be deserving of it! I think I've encountered this problem a lot of time with several fellow players in my time with D&D, where I asked them for their history and reason for their low charisma score, I get a blank look as they try to come up with a story to match the number instead of making the number match their story. Though since I am now a DM, I'm noticing it even more. Do you have any suggestion on discouraging this type of play?

[woodwwad]

@ModernDnD Oh you are certainly welcome, I'm glad to do it. Hope it helps get you a lot more subscribers. I love having a high Cha score. Cha is basically how cool your character is, if you could make a fantasy person why wouldn't you want them to be cool, strong of personality & good looking? Here is what you do, is they have that 8 cha score, clown them. Have people ignore them & then if a player has a high cha, have npcs really put that character over, give them the credit for everything

[Rapkannibale]

Interesting ideas here. However I don't think change just for the sake of change is good. The fact is that Longswords for example where the most common weapon used in those times so it is likely the your fighter is trained in using one. Make your character different by adding interesting character traits and personality and not rely on: "oh my fighter is different because I wear leather and use a morning star". Just my 2 cents. :)

[woodwwad]

@Rapkannibale when you've seen as many long sword or scimitars as I have used, they just cannot be cool anymore. So many power gamers using them for their means. You totally should add interesting character traits, you are totally right there. But an interesting look (weapons & armors) adds to the cool factor as well. Especially when you are playing with new players, walk in with a polearm & padded armor. You'll see thenm all trying to figure it out.

[WorldofLos]

Thanks for mentioning my channel, much appreciated. When building a character, I think about the game and how my character is going to fit into it. I don't think about how I'm going to get the best hit/damage ratio and AC, tabletop is not a video game. Instead, I think about what makes sense for my character and choose feats/powers which add to my concept. Over optimized characters are like foot soldiers in the clone army: boring and flavorless.

[woodwwad]

@WorldofLos Sure, I'm happy to give you a plug. Hope you've seen a few more new subs since it. Very well said about the clone army.

[blackbarnz]

Ha yes sacrafice him! Polearms rule! Great video! Rated!

[woodwwad]

@blackbarnz thanks brother, polearms are the greatness!

[TheOneTrueZombie]

there is one thing you tell people that nark on new channels video's. You tell them " you go eat a dick!"

[woodwwad]

@TheOneTrueZombie that is correct

[SekraMage]

I remember when I was playing World of Warcraft, I used to get so many questions and stupid comments on my hunter; simply because I didn't stand back and plink at things with my bow while my animal companion ran up and mauled the enemy for me - I got up in its face and fucked it up alongside my animal companion; and with a good variety of weapons too. I didn't do that, because to me it was boring. When you get sucked into the mechanics, and being "the best" it sucks all the fun out of any game.

[woodwwad]

@SekraMage It absolutely does, playing mechanics doesn't make the game fun. Play what is interesting & enjoyable to you.

[SekraMage]

@woodwwad Exactly, its a shame people don't get that anymore, they go for the "best" builds the "best" jobs and assume that having "the best" everything will make them happy, without giving any real thought about what will truly make them happy. It's sad.

[woodwwad]

@SekraMage What's really sad, is a lot of people try to pull ideal builds off the net.  Damn plagiarizers.

[SekraMage]

@woodwwad You may be right, there. I doubt people post their builds to have them copied; I could be wrong though. But if you post something on the net like that, you gotta at least acknowledge the possibility of that happening. That's a big part of why I don't have any of my writing posted on the net anymore; especially the poetry.

[woodwwad]

@SekraMage No, some of them post them for that very reason. With comments like this is the 20 level build you want to use for this, ect. I also see people posting requests for this sort of thing & getting answers. Google it if you want to see some sorry aspects of our great hobby. You going to be on IM today?

[SekraMage]

@woodwwad Yeah, I'll be on probably a little after 8pm. I have a meeting tonight from 5-7.

[woodwwad]

@SekraMage Ah, I was hoping you'd have been on this afternoon. I'd had some free time. I think I'll be working tonight. I'll try to catch you during the week.

[SekraMage]

@woodwwad Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday I'll be free to varying degrees. Friday I've got class, and tomorrow looks to be hectic.

[woodwwad]

@SekraMage ah, good to know.

[TabletopTitan]

You gotta give the sword a few props, man! But treat them proper like. Swords arent just for everyone. It's a status symbol, a weapon meant for only the purpose of killing. Hammers, spears, halberds, great flavor, but when you see someone rocking a sword you know he's got a little weight to his name, or he's been around a bit. Dont get me wrong, wont see me using one -gotta have something mean looking- but I think it gets a bum wrap. Characters should evolve though, long live multi-classing.

[woodwwad]

@TabletopTitan Well, I'm so damn sick of those weapons for sure. They are so often used by the lazy min/maxer. When you've seen a weapon used by well over a hundred characters, it is enough. Fighters with maces or polearms, ect, much more interesting.

[TabletopTitan]

@woodwwad I agree with you. Please believe I dont go into it with just one stick in my arsenal. In Pathfinder the alchemist class can grow additional arms, and you better realize each one of them arms is swinging something different, and not one of them is a sword of any description!

[woodwwad]

@TabletopTitan very nice, a sword is certainly not that joint.

[micahhenry]

To steal one of my favorite lines: "There is so much damn truth to this." The Ander-way is how I have fun at my tables these days.

[woodwwad]

@micahhenry You know you are getting this voted up. The "Ander-way" lol, now that's a good deal, I'm liking it.

[MysticShadowalker]

I like your take on form over function. It's interesting to see this kind of video 4-6 years after I started gaming. My very first ever 3.5 game was with a DM that adored form over function. He demanded that we roleplay over number play. That being said, my current group (all newbies) decided after running into a tortured, tied up, bleeding, unconcious individual, they'd heal him, keep him tied up and then ask questions to make sure he wasn't evil...WTF?! I thought stuff like that was obvious?

[woodwwad]

@MysticShadowalker The way you break players of that mentality is using a npc that is evil as the "good guy" put that evil character in line with the goals of the characters. Now they cannot just be looking for evil, if evil doesn't mean the character is against the party. Good can be the enemy too.

[Girhin]

@woodwwad I've been considering making an RPG channel, I was wondering, would this be a good idea? I figure my group and I could express our views on matters related to rpgs like how you and a few others do as well as chronicle our campaigns for everyone's enjoyment and for people to get ideas from. Does this sound like something that would be worthwhile?

[woodwwad]

@Girhin Well first it is a lot of work. Feel free to try doing 5-10 videos, see if it is fun for you. If it is, run with it, if it isn't, don't. That'd be my advise. It is nice to hear others views on RPGs but on the other hand there are loads of channels on RPGs now. Hope this gives you a both sides view. But certainly do give it a try if you'd like.

[Onionkid99]

Oh yeah, can you suggest a powerful build for my Billy Badass Halfling Assamite Longsword Master?

[woodwwad]

@Onionkid99 LOL, Absolutely. Vorpal sword through the neck piece!

[WickedOne00]

@woodwwad idk..for such a severe case, might I suggest vertical impalement.

[Onionkid99]

I never understood the "I'm gonna add numbers to my numbers so my character can make bigger numbers" school of character creation. I've always been about form over function, being unique and bringing interesting abilities, unique weapons, and cool stories. I'm not a Minimizer (speaking of your older videos) but I'm ok with not having some fine-tuned and optimized character.

When asked "what's your character?" I never respond with "I'm a 24 STR/ 26 DEX scimitar master!"

[woodwwad]

@Onionkid99 I think your example gave me indigestion. Wow, I'd have to restrain myself from headbutting someone that said that for real.

[Onionkid99]

@woodwwad My comments must do one of two things:

1) Stimulate your mind

OR

2) Vent your bowels

Anything else is a failure.

[YourDungeonMaster]

you would make a fantastic player. My players are very competetive, so sometimes they do get caught up with numbers. Im going to slowly start working these ideas back into thier heads, I say slowly because my brother will think im trying to screw his character,hehehe. If I had a player like you, you could lead by example.It would be easier for them to learn from a player like you, other than from me(the DM) telling them.

[woodwwad]

@YourDungeonMaster Thank you, I appreciate that brother. I do really think you bring up a good point though, if you have a player to lead by example it really sets a great tone. I'm a super competitive player, but not for "power" I'm highly RP competitive. It creates an interesting mood in games I play in as a lot of people will really try to step their game up. They damn well know they'll get joked if they don't!

[SailorBarsoom]

@woodwwad

The first few characters I played were boring. BOW RING!

Basically it was just me with pointed ears, me able to climb walls, me able to cast spells. That sort of thing. BOW RING!

It was because I got mixed in with a group whose characters were interesting and well-played that I realized just how dull my own characters were. I decided to make a character so unlike myself that I COULDN'T play it as me with.

First thing I did was make her female. That's not me at all.

[woodwwad]

@SailorBarsoom Yes, playing yourself seems to be a big flaw a lot of new players make. That certainly makes you not much for sure as far as a character, your approach to fixing that is the correct way to go.

[SailorBarsoom]

@woodwwad

It was Perdita. Still one of my favorites.

[ClockworkSorceror]

Very nice, as always. I do have a question though, what is your opinion on randomized character generation I.E. with the xd6 drop y amount? Have the concept ready before hand mind you but rolling their stats and wrapping the concept around that.

[woodwwad]

@ClockworkSorceror I really dislike rolling for stats. I like point system.

[herkles1]

thanks for those two channels, I have subscribed to them. :) and good video as always. volume seems to be better in this video btw.

I though do not mind people using longswords, because it was a common weapon; however! if other weapons fit your concept means using other weapons then go ahead and use them, i say!

[woodwwad]

@herkles1 Ah thanks for letting me know. Info like that is very helpful as I don't watch my own videos.

I seen too damn many long swords, they've lost all cool factor to me. Scimitars are even worse. Enough is enough.