And finally, o kiwichristian2009, I will quote you saint Cyprian, who proves the dogma of the Catholic Church; "The priest who imitates that which Christ did, truly takes the place of Christ, and offers there in the Church a true and perfect sacrifice to God the Father."
"and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a clean offering: for great is my name among the gentiles, says the Lord; but you profane it.' It is of the sacrifices offered to Him in every place by us, the gentiles, that is, of the Bread of the Eucharist and likewise of the cup of the Eucharist, that He speaks at that time; and He says that we glorify His name, while you profane it."
" 'I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices from your hands; for from the rising of the sun until its setting, my name has been glorified among the gentiles;"
@Reed20009 Many thanks for your interest in this channel and for taking the time to comment. The question of Anglican Orders has been raised here before, and I generally refer interested readers to the classic defense of Anglican ordinations by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, entitled Saepius Officio, which can be found online.
@Cantuariensis: For further researh one could also look for the Rev. Frederick George Lee's "The validity of the holy orders of the Church of England maintained and vindicated" on googlebooks or archive.org. Saepius Officio is, of course, an excellent place to start.
@Reed20009: Assuming the logic of "Apostolica Cuarea" be followed: Neither does the post-Bugninian Roman Church. For under the influence of reform it removed explicit references to the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacrificing Priesthood from the Ordinal thereby failing in form and intention. Rendering the Priesthood of today's Roman Church invalid. Another option may be that Leo XIII demonstrated Papal Fallibility so that both have a valid Priesthood still. Or Sedevacantism perhaps?
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
do you know anything of Catholic doctrine? Christ is not re-sacrificed, but his sacrificed is re-presented, that is, made truly and bloodlessly present again upon the altar.
"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'"
@brndurham " Power of Consecrating: The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating. 'No act is greater,' says St. Thomas, 'than the consecration of the body of Christ.' In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself....
@brndurham Power of consecration: "WHEN THE PRIEST PRONOUNCES THE TREMENDOUS WORDS OF CONSECRATION, HE REACHES UP INTO HEAVENS, BRINGS CHRIST DOWN FROM HIS THRONE, AND PLACES HIM UPON OUR ALTAR TO BE OFFERED UP AGAIN AS THE VICTIM FOR THE SINS OF MAN."
@brndurham "the priest brings Christ down from heaven and renders him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man not once, but a thousand times." "The priest speaks and lo, Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command." He has the power to go to heaven and pull Christ down, and sacrifice him again on the altar of the church.". - Faith of Millions APPROVED by the RCC
Unfortunately, the Anglicans do not have valid Priesthood. Therefore, all the sacraments offered by Anglican Priests are invalid. Pope Leo XIII already had made a pronouncement on Anglicanism.
Anglicans are leaving religion of Henry VIII and coming home to Rome. Deo Gratias.
Many thanks for your historical comments on Anglican Orders. Leo XIII’s bull was entitled Apostolicae Curae. The Archbishops of Canterbury and York issued a response entitled Saepius Officio defending the validity of Anglican ordinations. Both documents (in English and in Latin) can be found online.
@Cantuariensis - Thank you for the reply. It is not up to Canterbury to protest. It lacks legitimacy as far as Rome is concerned, and that is already settled.
@FishEaster Yeah, I know the drill: Anglicans don't have valid holy orders, someone else says some other church doesn't have or does have valid orders. To me this is all sound and fury signifying nothing. All we really know about what God approves of is that one group of people says god wants one thing and another group says just the opposite. It all boils down to human opinions which humans claim are gods opinions.
@FishEaster A study of the New Testament reveals that all Christians are priests. Peter said, "Be you yourselves as living stones, built thereon into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 2:5). Thus, all Christians are of that holy priesthood and can offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. There is not a man or group of men on earth who can offer unto God spiritual sacrifices for others.
@FishEaster To whom do the sacraments belong to Christ or to the Church? Anglicans are forming their own traditonalist bodies and going to Rome and Constantinople. And the first statement, the question wasn't meant to be confrontational, merely dialouge...
Indeed, a salutary reminder for all Christians, as stated in the Eucharistic Rite of the Book of Common Prayer: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
This is not the Tridentine Mass; it is the modern Anglican Mass celebrated in Latin in accordance with the provisions of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. Many thanks for your kind words.
The Church of Rome recognizes the validity of holy orders administered by the Eastern Orthodox, Polish National, Oriental Orthodox, and Old Catholic Churches and the Assyrian Church of the East because those churches have maintained the apostolic succession of bishops.
Anglicans also have a vaild apostolic succession of their bishops. Pope Leo XIII declared Anglican holy orders null and void "only" because the Anglicans did not use the ordination rite as practiced by the Church of Rome.
All of the validly ordained Bishops who were in communion with Rome either fled the country or were imprisoned for not taking the Oath of Supremacy.
The Church of England did not "break away from Rome". Truly its founders broke from their former allegiance to Rome, but the Church of England qua Church of England is not, and never was, a part of the Universal Church. It is a separate foundation, deriving its Orders not from the Apostolic Succession but from English Acts of Parliament.
Anglican Orders are null and void in terms of Catholic teaching by reason of the use of the illicit Cranmerian Ordinal for a hundred years from the death of Bishop Kitchin in 1563, leaving no possibility of valid Orders being retained and passed on.
THIS is the reason Pope Leo XIII declared anglican "orders" invalid. They had not been valid for more than 450 years.
You are welcome to cross the Tiber when you realize you want to join the one true Church started by Christ.
There is no mention of this. However, in recent times, Pope Benedict XVI has proposed measures to expedite the process of certain Episcopal parishes in the U.S. to come into commuion with Rome. It wouldn't be forced conversions: a number of disaffect Episcopalians wish to become Catholics -- sometimes even entire parishes.
They are based upon Apostolic descent. That does not mean they are. Now with the Ordination of Gene Robinson and Schouri that's all out the Stain Glass Windows of St.John the Devine.
Anglican/ Episcopalian ministers do not participate in the Priesthood of the Church to any extent. For the ordinations, or any sacrament, to be valid the correct form, matter and intention must be present - failing this there is no sacrament confered. Read Apostolicae Curae, by Pope Leo XIII.
Episcopalians are just laymen in Bishops' outfits - heretical and apostate ones at that!
The Catholic Church has the ONLY valid and licit priesthood instituted by Chirst.
It's a case of circular reasoning -- since this is how the Catholic Church regards Anglican rites. Interestingly enough, Orthodox rites and sacraments are recognized.
The Roman church has a right to its opinion that Anglican holy orders are not valid. Just another disagreement between denominations as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that Anglican Orders are invalid is not merely an opinion - but a fact which has been proven.
The Catholic Church is not merely a denomination of a greater "church" it is the Church of Christ. The Anglican Church is just another false sect. Truth is not a matter of opinion.
What do you mean "a fact which has been proven"? All you are doing is parroting the self serving claims of the Roman Catholic denomination. All the Christian denominations make these kind of self serving claims to being the "one true church".
Anglican orders are obviously invalid. You cannot just start your own church, and make bishops an ordination rites, and expect Christ and His Church to recognise them!
You really really need some training to improve your critical thinking skills. First of all we don't know for sure that Jesus intended to start any church. We don't know how much of the words attributed to him in the NT are actually his words. Your belief in the claims of the Roman church is based on nothing but faith.
Saying Jesus founded a church doesn't make it so. Where is your evidence that he founded a church? and that the words of Matthew aren't just the words of his early followers? I don't think there is any way to know for sure, thus, it is a matter of opinion until or unless more EVIDENCE is discovered. We can make ANY idea true by saying "I know by faith" that it is true. I know by faith that unicorns exist.
18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
King Henry VIII started his own church when he could not get an annulment of his marraige. Thus was born Anglicans.
@bearnurse1 Yes, but in thefinal analysis, all we truly have is FAITH. I have had a deep and abiding faith since I was 5 years old and first became aware of GOD. Having such faith has served me well and will continue to guide me with the help of the Holy Spirit.
If I dispute the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and some who believes in FSM could also say "well all we really have is faith" "I know by faith that the FSM exists and that faith has served me well over all these years". You can make ANY idea true by saying "I know by faith that it's true, no matter what anyone says". Listen to what the LDS say to back up their belief about the Book of Mormon.
@bearnurse1 -And this is always where rebellion against God and His Kingdom must lead. If you have the right to determine what is truth and what is not truth, then why not start your own church? Better yet, declare yourself to be God! Oh yeah, the serpent already did that one back in Eden. Or in the words of that great democratic leader, Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?"
@flpigsticker What a lame reply to what I said. Is this really the best you can do? You really need a refresher course in critical thinking skills to learn what is the differences between provable facts and mere speculation. Saying Roman church priests are valid and Anglican priests aren't is human opinion.
Ariaane the Society of Saint Pius X are not schismatic. For example in June 1988 when Bishop Lefebvre consecrated four bishops he was not excommunticated on the grounds of schism because the prosecutors found none.
Sacraments of St. Pius X Society have Apostolic Succesion as the same like sacraments in Catholic ( Apostolic Succesion from pope) and Orthodox(apostolic succesion from Constantinopol/Moscow/Alexadria/ patriarche) Churches.
Remember Christians, the will of God is no Catholic, Protestant,Orthodox, Penticostal, Adventist, JW, Etc. NO DIVISION, Only Christians, holy, helping and sharing instead of buying and selling.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:9-21)
@conceil8 The true church isn't catholic or protestant. It doesn't have a mailing address or a zip code. It is the body of believers in Jesus Christ the world over. Christ has written their names in the book of life. Christ knows who His friends are. "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,which is Jesus Christ."1 Corinthians 3:11
Andante735, why should you be ashamed of being an Episcopalian? I know we all have different views of how the church should be run, but in the end we are all people who simply want to praise and love our Lord and Creator, and his son Jesus. I don't think there is any wrong way to worship God. I understand that many people disagree with this, but people should not feel restrained by their church life, but instead focus on being at one with God and allowing His spirit to help us in our lives.
I'm afraid it really does matter, at least in terms of theology and practice. The Anglican Communion is being torn apart by radical, fascist-styled revisionists, namely a woman who considers herself to be a validly ordained bishop of the church and was duly elected by that church. The ECUSA is a chaotic, politically polarized mess of an insitutution, that makes remaining a member a disturbing idea.
I'm ashamed and embarrassed to tell people I'm an Episcopalian, so I remain outside the mainstream, and do not receive any sacraments in the church currently.
i don't get why people are debating "true priesthood". It doesn't matter if you are Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal like me, or any other denomination. If you devote your life to God and the church, you are a priest. In the Episcopal church there are women priests as well, and priests can marry. God isn't sexist.
I am sure your sincere and you are on the right track but would you consider reading 1Tim.3:1-13. We are all equal before Almighty God but our Heavenly Father did set a certain order for our benefit. Should we not be obedient to His holy will. Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus made it all clear for us as recorded in His infallible Word, the holy Bible. May He bless and protect you and cause you to grow in wisdom and grace.
ariaane, there is no wrong way to worship. when i take communion at my epsicopal church, it is as symbolic and holy as at any other church. God makes no distinctions, only asks people to love Him with their whole heart, as I most certainly do. What is wrong with believing anything you want, exactly? If the church tells you what to believe, the Holy Spirit is not allowed to grow inside of you and become a part of you. Each person must decide what THEY believe, not what the chruch believes.
Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Indepedent Catholics, and Old Catholics are all Catholics. In essence there are three Catholic representatives, the Pope (Roman Catholicism), who is the most revered figure on Earth and the most important, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Anglicanism) and the Archbishop of Utrecht (Old Catholicism). So there are four different types of Catholicism. Of course most Catholics are Roman Catholic anyways, like me ...
I didn't say they were "Roman" Catholic. But Old Catholics and Anglicans are Catholics too, hence not Roman Catholics. The main difference lies in their leaders: Archbishop of Utrecht for Old Catholicism, the Archbishop of Canterbury for Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion, and the Archbishop of Rome (the Pope) for Roman Catholicism. The Independent Catholics don't have a head primate.
And I am among the 1.000.000.000 Roman Catholics of the world.
Although Anglicans and Old Catholics may not be Catholic in reality, that.s what they are classified under. The Pope is only the leader of the Roman Catholic church. There are four types of Catholics, Roman Catholics being the majority of the types.
By Eastern Catholic, you mean such churches as the Ukrainian and Greek Catholic churches? Or do you mean Orthodoxy, which is as different from Catholicism as Protestantism?
Illogical! So if the Pope is the head of both the Western and Eastern rites, the Orthodox should be heretics for not recognizing his authority which makes their church invalid. You can't have it both ways.
Holubian, just like many on this video you are very uneducated about Catholicism and history of Christinity since the last century.
The SSP- a trad group within the Catholic community is a SCHISMATIC sect- but they are still Catholic and their priests still have VALID orders and VALID communion even though some of the SSPX go as far as to question the seat of Peter.
The Orthodox too, separated in the 11th century, are a SCHISMATIC- not HERETICAL group- who have valid communion and priesthood.
In England they may not; but my understanding is that U.S. bishops, at one point in history, went to continental Europe to get blessings from bishops in apostolic succession.
Okay-I'm going to say it..Anglican's have a valid priesthood. The world does not revolve around the Roman Church nor the holy father. The fact is there are MANY different forms of belief which is glorious because it shows the beauty of diversity. Until ALL churches and faiths unite with the realization that diversity IS beauty, then I'm afraid there will only be bloodshed and pain in the name of God. Pity.
Remember, the Church of England's founder remained a Catholic at heart even though he declared himself Head of the Church. There was a lot of bloodshed and betrayal in the name of God during this time. The Catholics burned many protestants for heresy, and likewise the Church of England banished and murdered many Catholics. We must put aside our differences in opinion and view each other as valid in our own right. We do afterall strive towards the same goal, do we not.?
Thank you for proving my point. Bigots like you and Pope Leo only help destroy the beauty of diversity in God's church. Until people like you realize that All churches are valid despite differences in doctrine, there will never be4 peace amongst Christians. People with your opinion are only corrupting and helping to fuel the fires of bigotry. You're not helping the Christian cause.
Here's something to make you all think--I've read some interesting works indicating that Jesus lived in Asia before and after the crucifixtion and is actually buried in Rosebal Kashmir. Check it out on Amazon. The traditional Western and Eastern churches didn't solidify until the third century when Christianity was officially recognized by the empire. 350 years or so is a long time--maybe some info was lost along the way.
Ive been watching these posts for about a year, and i'm amazed at how many just sort of reapeat in what seems like a little circle of hateful messages, ie: P1:"Not really sacrament/invalid orders." P2:"Nu-uh! Its Real!" P1:"no its not!(insert Apostolicae Curae) P2:"Yes it is!(insert Old Catholic lineage) P3:"I really do love the musi...P1&P2:"SHUT UP IDIOT!" and repeat that for about however many pages until the comments are disabled...
The Anglican church is more Catholic, then the New Order Mass. The new Catholic church post Vatican II. The Old Catholic Church is different then the new faith the controls mostly all of the Catholics Churhes. Just because a church building reads Catholic on it. It does not mean it is a real Catholic. The Church buliding is there but not the Faith.
As for Trans-substantiation, it all depends on what "branch" of Anglicanism you choose to follow. Most Anglicans believe in Consubstatiation. However some High Anglicans or Anglo Catholics, maintain the doctrine of Trans-substantiation. ;)
But .....many Anglican Priests have been ordained by Orthodox Bishops (or by Anglican bishops consecrated by Orthodox Bishops) - then the line is unbroken. Roman Catholics and Greek orthodox are in schism (an incomplete tearing) and both have the line of succession from the apostles.
Yes ;). There are 3 types of Anglican worship. The low church (more evangelical), the broad church (middle ground), and the high church or Anglo-Catholic (very traditional). Because the English reformation was for political reasons and not religious, both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic church remain very similar in the way they both conduct the Mass.
I think it is very important for the RC and Anglo Churches to maintain a close friendship. However I highly doubt that the See of Canterbury as well as most Anglicans for that matter would accept the Pope as head of the English Church. That said, our bond should only grow...
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I hope so. Us Roman Catholics are one of the world's strongest religions, and I hate it that the PRC officially bans Roman Catholicism in the country. And that's the good thing of Roman Catholicism: it is just one huge religion, not split up in three like Anglicanism.
Cottonmouth26:I'm not surprised that you do not know much about Anglicanism, but your grasp of Roman Catholicism is pitiful! There have been only TWO declarations by the Catholic Church that could be termed "infallible" ( by Catholicism's own definition!) The first is Vatican I's declaration that when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, he is speaking infallibly. The second is the declaration of the doctrine of the Aummption of the BVM.
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Hitler forced the Jews into ghettos - great historical connection. The Vatican's history is far from pure. If you're going to drag out 'history', then remember to drag out the Vatican's in order to offer a degree of fairness.
Doubting the Vatican's 'purity' is one thing; impugning it with unrestrained vehemence is quite another. It's worth bearing that in mind before issuing angry condemnations. Other than that, have at it.
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Cottonmouth, Try exposing Vatican home truths instead, and you have the audacity to moan about a kings actions.
On 17 July 1555 Pope Paul IV publishes the Bull Cum nimis absurdum, a landmark in anti-Semitism. The Bull stresses that by nature Jews are slaves and should be treated as such. For the first time they are to be confined to an area know as a ghetto. Each ghetto has only one entrance.
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You people sound idiotic speaking so confidently of something you have such little proof of. Don't you realize this babble is what has been fueling wars?
The Council of Florence infallibly declared that heretics cannot find salvation outside of the Church. The Anglican Church undermines the teachings of Jesus Christ by claiming to be part of the Mystical Body of Christ but in reality, the English Church was founded by a king who married his whore in order to satisfy his earthly and disgusting desires as the king of England. I pray that the Anglicans return to Rome because the Anglican have no true sacraments except baptism and marriage.
Vatican II significantly diluted the extra ecclesia nulla salus decree of Florence. This is the official teaching and if you don't accept in Cottonmouth u are the heretic!! Anyway, who says the Apostolic succession was broken within the Anglican Church? They might have broken communion but all archbishops of Canterbury held the Pallium up to that point.
If we consider strictly the Roman Catholic doctrine of Ordination, Orthodox or Old Catholic ordinations have been limited to the ordained priest because, if that priest becomes Bishop, he can't ordain other valid priests or bishops due to lack of validity of the Anglican formulas. On the contrary, if we accept as valid an "analogue" formula, then Anglican clergy is in valid Apostolic succession.
Why on earth Anglicans do this I have no idea. You cannot rip teh Deuterocanonical books of the Church Father out of the Bible and claim to members of the Body of Christ (The Roman Catholic Church).
In essence, this is nothing more than a nice bit of theatre with some bread and wine thrown in for good measure.
I nearly died from the irony of attending an Anglican wedding where 'Ave Verum Corpus' was sung! Why bother, when you don't even believe in the True Presence, nor have licit authority?!
Re the scriptural texts: Anglicans have always read the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books in the liturgy, but since their status has been disputed for many centuries, and not all Christians accept them, we do not base any binding doctrine on them.
Re the Real Presence: The ARCIC documents on the Eucharist, affirmed by the Lambeth Conference, assert, "10. According to the traditional order of the liturgy the consecratory prayer (anaphora) leads to the communion of the faithful. Through this prayer of thanksgiving, a word of faith addressed to the Father, the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit, so that in communion we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood."
I am fully aware of the ARCIC documents on the Eucharist, but what the Anglican communion asserts about the nature of the Sacrifice is not what it practices. Not according to the Churches of St Peter and the Eastern Churches. "Well they can think what they want" is a usual response to that statement. In spite of that, I wonder what it is, other than culture, that prevents an Anglican from following the example of Venerable Cardinal Newman and making the leap of Faith instead of merely aping it.
Hi! I'm thinking aobut Anglicanism and would you mind explaing to me how this is different from transubstantiation, because I don't understand it. Thank you!
RE: "...the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit, so that in communion we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood."
@iamlondon The Anglicans actually use the same canon of the bible as the Roman Catholic Church, they have all the books taken out during the reformation.
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It's amazing that this Mass (although celebrated by a priest with invalid orders)is much more Catholic in its externals and its attention to the art of liturgy is amazing.
You're right. Hopefully, when the Traditional Anglican Communion returns home, it will serve as a bridge to connect the rest of all of the High Church Anglicans and other protestant groups. England should never have separated from Rome, all over a family dynasty that ended one generation after Henry. If God wills it, the Anglicans will one day be a uniate Catholic Church, the first non-Roman Western Rite Catholics!
Amen to that. Give it 50 years and it'll be nothing but 'priests' left in the Anglican community - they have tons of ministers and trust funds to keep the buildings standing up, but the whole thing doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
Actually the Popes representatives and the Anglican representatives have for sometime been talking about the two re-joining under the authority of the Pope. Seems only two obstacles and they are becoming more entrenched: 1. Ordination of women priests and 2. Active homosexual bishops.
These two issues will not be accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.
Anglicans cannot attain eternal salvation outside the holy Roman Church unless they return into full communion with Her. The Anglican ordinations are invalid. Their bishops and "priests" can neither bless, consecrate, nor absolve sinners from their sins. They have no power. The Anglican Church is not the Catholic Church but a Mistress of Satan, the Father of Lies and Half-Truths.
"Mistress of Satan" is both erroneous and scandalous according to Catholic teaching. They are a communion in search of Christ, although they be outside of the One Church. Beware of committing Scandal - it is a mortal sin.
As a Catholic, I am disappointed with the sudden ruptures in the liturgy, and the refusal of our Archbishop to have a Traditional Latin Mass celebrated in the City. Although I disagree with the Episcopalians, on the outside, this service has a lot more in common with the Old Mass than the new mass celebrated today. If the celebrant has valid Apostolic Succession through a valid bishop with valid Holy Orders, this could be a Catholic Mass.
I know, because they lack Apostolic succession, right form, right matter, and right intention. But, things are improving in the Church. At a Church that I go to, the priest says the absolution in Latin. I also just came from a trip in France/Monaco, and my group sang several parts of the Mass--Kyrie, Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus, and Agnus Dei, while the rest was in French. And this was in the beautiful Cathedral of St. Nicholas in Monaco.
Many thanks for taking the time to view this video and leave a comment. One thing to note, however, is that this is not a Tridentine Mass. It is an Anglican Mass sung in Latin according the use of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church.
Ya i know about that, you believe that the bread becomes the body and after wards it becomes bread or something. But the teaching of my Catholic church says since your apostolic succession is invalid and your bishops cannot be traced to St. Peter because of this all your sacraments are invalid. When an Anglican priest wants to convert to the Pope approved Book of Common prayer he needs re ordination. As such I did not mean for it to be offensive I'm just telling the truth. You worship bread.
"They" worship what is right for them just as Catholics and everyone else does waht their faith leads them to follow. You can't tell them what they worship since you're not even sure yourself, otherwise you wouldn't be blindly following the "teaching" of the Catholic Church, which to my recollection is much more open minded than your post.
I don't doubt that many Anglicans believe in Transubstantiation. However, Transubstantiation can only be effected by a valid successor to the Apostles (a bishop) or his delegate (a priest). This only stands to reason, since Christ gave this authority only to His Apostles, not just to anyone. Because the Anglican Church broke with this Apostolic succession, their priests, no matter how firmly they believe in Transubstantiation, cannot transform the bread and wine.
So if you believe in the Catholic theology of the Eucharist, and if you accept (as the Anglican Church has) that the Bishop of Rome enjoys a certain primacy over the other bishops, why would you not return to Rome?
Wow, what a shocker - Americans speak Latin with an American accent! I bet that all the ancient Romans will laugh at them when they go to ancient Rome on vacation and try to order in a restaurant...
....and besdies, God forbid homosexual activity, not homosexuality. He also forbif pre-marital sex. Its all about chastity. 80% of child pedophiles are straight- American Pcshycological Association. God ordered the Jews to use objects in the his worship, including statues- read the entire book of Exodus and you will see!
So many so-called Christians have been making anti-gay and anti-Anglican comments here. I was trying to be funny by saying that homosexual acts are only sinful if they are done poorly. For example, this could be having one's partner's teeth interefering with oral sex... that sort of thing.
No one should be targeted for violence for anything! No Church officially sanctions violence. The RC Catechism teaches that same-sex acts are sinful, but also teaches that gay persons shouldn't be targeted for unjust discrimination (Catechism 2358). This vile speech being exchanged between different members of different churches is so alien to the love of Christ. This unchristian spite is a grave scandal and harms the church's credibility and wounds the cause of Christian reunion. God is love!
The endless back and forth bickering here makes me glad that I left Christianity years ago. Beautiful churches and liturgies? Yes. But endless blah blah blah about who is right or wrong, about who did this and that, about what God wants and doesn't want, about who is faithful or unfaithful, about which church is true or false, etc.
With a little searching, a Traditional Roman Catholic church that uses the Tridentine Latin Mass can still be found. The schism caused by the Novus Ordo New Mass was the fulfillment of prophesy where Jesus Christ would separate the sheep from the goats. Reunification would defeat that purpose! Attend a modern New Mass, then a Tridentine Latin Mass with its aura of reverence and antiquity, and you'll see the difference!
No i meant reunification with the other Churches of Catholic descent. Im all for the tridentine Mass. I detest the New Mass (it isnt really a mass) All i was saying is that if the Episcapols can do it, we sure as hell can!
I would be the first to agree that 90% of Novus Ordo celebrations are sacrilegious and dishonor God,but there are a great many good and holy priests who celebrate it with dignity and the proper respect.The Tridentine Mass is not the end-all of good worship,and has itself been changed since the council of Trent. Do you get the irony of you saying 'we sure the hell can', referring to something religious? You have lost the true spirit of the Tridentine or any Mass if you do not love in your heart.
And finally, o kiwichristian2009, I will quote you saint Cyprian, who proves the dogma of the Catholic Church; "The priest who imitates that which Christ did, truly takes the place of Christ, and offers there in the Church a true and perfect sacrifice to God the Father."
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brndurham 5 months ago
"and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a clean offering: for great is my name among the gentiles, says the Lord; but you profane it.' It is of the sacrifices offered to Him in every place by us, the gentiles, that is, of the Bread of the Eucharist and likewise of the cup of the Eucharist, that He speaks at that time; and He says that we glorify His name, while you profane it."
brndurham 5 months ago
" 'I have no pleasure in you, says the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices from your hands; for from the rising of the sun until its setting, my name has been glorified among the gentiles;"
brndurham 5 months ago
St. Justin Martyr-
"Moreover, as I said before, concerning the sacrifices which you at that time offered, God speaks through Malachias, one of the twelve, as follows:"
brndurham 5 months ago
Anglican Orders are In Valid !! They have no powers at all. More and More Protestant Episcopalians are becoming Catholics.
Reed20009 6 months ago
@Reed20009 Many thanks for your interest in this channel and for taking the time to comment. The question of Anglican Orders has been raised here before, and I generally refer interested readers to the classic defense of Anglican ordinations by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, entitled Saepius Officio, which can be found online.
Cantuariensis 6 months ago
@Cantuariensis: For further researh one could also look for the Rev. Frederick George Lee's "The validity of the holy orders of the Church of England maintained and vindicated" on googlebooks or archive.org. Saepius Officio is, of course, an excellent place to start.
FrGregoryWassen 6 months ago
@Reed20009: Assuming the logic of "Apostolica Cuarea" be followed: Neither does the post-Bugninian Roman Church. For under the influence of reform it removed explicit references to the Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacrificing Priesthood from the Ordinal thereby failing in form and intention. Rendering the Priesthood of today's Roman Church invalid. Another option may be that Leo XIII demonstrated Papal Fallibility so that both have a valid Priesthood still. Or Sedevacantism perhaps?
FrGregoryWassen 6 months ago
I used to attend Church of the Advent as a young man when i lived in San Fransisco.
Thanks for bringing back some precious memories!
BriarMaster 1 year ago
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
do you know anything of Catholic doctrine? Christ is not re-sacrificed, but his sacrificed is re-presented, that is, made truly and bloodlessly present again upon the altar.
brndurham 5 months ago
@brndurham Yes, i do. You have been brainwashed, my friend. Since it is a DIFFERENT "manner", it cannot be the SAME sacrifice.
kiwichristian2009 5 months ago
@kiwichristian2009 The Didache-
"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks; but first confess your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled. For here we have the saying of the Lord: 'In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice; for I am a mighty King, says the Lord; and my name spreads terror among the nations.'"
brndurham 5 months ago
@brndurham " Power of Consecrating: The supreme power of the priestly office is the power of consecrating. 'No act is greater,' says St. Thomas, 'than the consecration of the body of Christ.' In this essential phase of the sacred ministry, the power of the priest is not surpassed by that of the bishop, the archbishop, the cardinal or the pope. Indeed it is equal to that of Jesus Christ. For in this role the priest speaks with the voice and the authority of God Himself....
kiwichristian2009 5 months ago
@brndurham Power of consecration: "WHEN THE PRIEST PRONOUNCES THE TREMENDOUS WORDS OF CONSECRATION, HE REACHES UP INTO HEAVENS, BRINGS CHRIST DOWN FROM HIS THRONE, AND PLACES HIM UPON OUR ALTAR TO BE OFFERED UP AGAIN AS THE VICTIM FOR THE SINS OF MAN."
kiwichristian2009 5 months ago
@brndurham "the priest brings Christ down from heaven and renders him present on our altar as the eternal victim for the sins of man not once, but a thousand times." "The priest speaks and lo, Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest's command." He has the power to go to heaven and pull Christ down, and sacrifice him again on the altar of the church.". - Faith of Millions APPROVED by the RCC
kiwichristian2009 5 months ago
Unfortunately, the Anglicans do not have valid Priesthood. Therefore, all the sacraments offered by Anglican Priests are invalid. Pope Leo XIII already had made a pronouncement on Anglicanism.
Anglicans are leaving religion of Henry VIII and coming home to Rome. Deo Gratias.
FishEaster 1 year ago
@FishEaster
Many thanks for your historical comments on Anglican Orders. Leo XIII’s bull was entitled Apostolicae Curae. The Archbishops of Canterbury and York issued a response entitled Saepius Officio defending the validity of Anglican ordinations. Both documents (in English and in Latin) can be found online.
Cantuariensis 1 year ago
@Cantuariensis - Since the Roman Church through Pope Leo XIII already made a pronouncement on the lack of validity of Anglicans. That's it.
FishEaster 1 year ago
@Cantuariensis - Thank you for the reply. It is not up to Canterbury to protest. It lacks legitimacy as far as Rome is concerned, and that is already settled.
FishEaster 1 year ago
@FishEaster Yeah, I know the drill: Anglicans don't have valid holy orders, someone else says some other church doesn't have or does have valid orders. To me this is all sound and fury signifying nothing. All we really know about what God approves of is that one group of people says god wants one thing and another group says just the opposite. It all boils down to human opinions which humans claim are gods opinions.
bearnurse1 1 year ago
@FishEaster A study of the New Testament reveals that all Christians are priests. Peter said, "Be you yourselves as living stones, built thereon into a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 2:5). Thus, all Christians are of that holy priesthood and can offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. There is not a man or group of men on earth who can offer unto God spiritual sacrifices for others.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@FishEaster We are all prests accroding to 1 Peter! You pagans twist Scripture!
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
@FishEaster To whom do the sacraments belong to Christ or to the Church? Anglicans are forming their own traditonalist bodies and going to Rome and Constantinople. And the first statement, the question wasn't meant to be confrontational, merely dialouge...
clarkbailey1973 1 year ago
Blind Pharisee! Clean what is inside the cup first, and then the outside will be clean too!
orangecolasour 1 year ago
@orangecolasour
Indeed, a salutary reminder for all Christians, as stated in the Eucharistic Rite of the Book of Common Prayer: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:37-40
Cantuariensis 1 year ago
Is this the Catholic Tridentine mass? Or a different mass made my Anglicans? Very beautiful BTW, and I am catholic!
AnotherAppleMacbook 1 year ago
@AnotherAppleMacbook
This is not the Tridentine Mass; it is the modern Anglican Mass celebrated in Latin in accordance with the provisions of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church. Many thanks for your kind words.
Blessings and peace,
Fr Rod
Cantuariensis 1 year ago
The Church of Rome recognizes the validity of holy orders administered by the Eastern Orthodox, Polish National, Oriental Orthodox, and Old Catholic Churches and the Assyrian Church of the East because those churches have maintained the apostolic succession of bishops.
Anglicans also have a vaild apostolic succession of their bishops. Pope Leo XIII declared Anglican holy orders null and void "only" because the Anglicans did not use the ordination rite as practiced by the Church of Rome.
semsja 2 years ago 2
All of the validly ordained Bishops who were in communion with Rome either fled the country or were imprisoned for not taking the Oath of Supremacy.
The Church of England did not "break away from Rome". Truly its founders broke from their former allegiance to Rome, but the Church of England qua Church of England is not, and never was, a part of the Universal Church. It is a separate foundation, deriving its Orders not from the Apostolic Succession but from English Acts of Parliament.
mom2threebabes 2 years ago
Anglican Orders are null and void in terms of Catholic teaching by reason of the use of the illicit Cranmerian Ordinal for a hundred years from the death of Bishop Kitchin in 1563, leaving no possibility of valid Orders being retained and passed on.
THIS is the reason Pope Leo XIII declared anglican "orders" invalid. They had not been valid for more than 450 years.
You are welcome to cross the Tiber when you realize you want to join the one true Church started by Christ.
mom2threebabes 2 years ago 2
Is this an Anglican Rite Parish in Communion with Rome?
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
There is no mention of this. However, in recent times, Pope Benedict XVI has proposed measures to expedite the process of certain Episcopal parishes in the U.S. to come into commuion with Rome. It wouldn't be forced conversions: a number of disaffect Episcopalians wish to become Catholics -- sometimes even entire parishes.
JLFAN2009 2 years ago
No. It is a parish of the Episcopal Church in San Francisco, California.
bearnurse1 2 years ago
This is a real mockery - An altar and no sacrafice!!
Anglicans have no valid Priesthood nor sacraments!!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
The Anglican bishops in the United States (known as Episcopalians) are of apostolic descent.
JLFAN2009 2 years ago
They are based upon Apostolic descent. That does not mean they are. Now with the Ordination of Gene Robinson and Schouri that's all out the Stain Glass Windows of St.John the Devine.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
JLFAN2009-
Anglican/ Episcopalian ministers do not participate in the Priesthood of the Church to any extent. For the ordinations, or any sacrament, to be valid the correct form, matter and intention must be present - failing this there is no sacrament confered. Read Apostolicae Curae, by Pope Leo XIII.
Episcopalians are just laymen in Bishops' outfits - heretical and apostate ones at that!
The Catholic Church has the ONLY valid and licit priesthood instituted by Chirst.
iotaunam1 2 years ago
It's a case of circular reasoning -- since this is how the Catholic Church regards Anglican rites. Interestingly enough, Orthodox rites and sacraments are recognized.
JLFAN2009 2 years ago
Ortodox rites are recognised because they are valid, although illicit.
Anglican rites/sacraments are invalid.
iotaunam1 2 years ago
No one's hold a gun to your head. If you don't like this video, don't watch it !
bearnurse1 2 years ago
I was commenting on the fact that Anglican orders/rites are invalid - not how much i disliked the video!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
The Roman church has a right to its opinion that Anglican holy orders are not valid. Just another disagreement between denominations as far as I'm concerned.
bearnurse1 2 years ago
bearnurse1-
The fact that Anglican Orders are invalid is not merely an opinion - but a fact which has been proven.
The Catholic Church is not merely a denomination of a greater "church" it is the Church of Christ. The Anglican Church is just another false sect. Truth is not a matter of opinion.
iotaunam1 2 years ago
What do you mean "a fact which has been proven"? All you are doing is parroting the self serving claims of the Roman Catholic denomination. All the Christian denominations make these kind of self serving claims to being the "one true church".
bearnurse1 2 years ago
Anglican orders are obviously invalid. You cannot just start your own church, and make bishops an ordination rites, and expect Christ and His Church to recognise them!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
You really really need some training to improve your critical thinking skills. First of all we don't know for sure that Jesus intended to start any church. We don't know how much of the words attributed to him in the NT are actually his words. Your belief in the claims of the Roman church is based on nothing but faith.
bearnurse1 2 years ago
That Christ founded a Church is undeniable. Secondly, of course my belief is based on faith - the True faith.
iotaunam1 2 years ago
Saying Jesus founded a church doesn't make it so. Where is your evidence that he founded a church? and that the words of Matthew aren't just the words of his early followers? I don't think there is any way to know for sure, thus, it is a matter of opinion until or unless more EVIDENCE is discovered. We can make ANY idea true by saying "I know by faith" that it is true. I know by faith that unicorns exist.
bearnurse1 2 years ago
Matthew 16:18-19
18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
King Henry VIII started his own church when he could not get an annulment of his marraige. Thus was born Anglicans.
mom2threebabes 2 years ago
@bearnurse1 Yes, but in thefinal analysis, all we truly have is FAITH. I have had a deep and abiding faith since I was 5 years old and first became aware of GOD. Having such faith has served me well and will continue to guide me with the help of the Holy Spirit.
gnosticimp 2 years ago
If I dispute the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and some who believes in FSM could also say "well all we really have is faith" "I know by faith that the FSM exists and that faith has served me well over all these years". You can make ANY idea true by saying "I know by faith that it's true, no matter what anyone says". Listen to what the LDS say to back up their belief about the Book of Mormon.
bearnurse1 2 years ago
@bearnurse1 -And this is always where rebellion against God and His Kingdom must lead. If you have the right to determine what is truth and what is not truth, then why not start your own church? Better yet, declare yourself to be God! Oh yeah, the serpent already did that one back in Eden. Or in the words of that great democratic leader, Pontius Pilate: "What is truth?"
flpigsticker 1 year ago
@flpigsticker What a lame reply to what I said. Is this really the best you can do? You really need a refresher course in critical thinking skills to learn what is the differences between provable facts and mere speculation. Saying Roman church priests are valid and Anglican priests aren't is human opinion.
bearnurse1 1 year ago
Ariaane the Society of Saint Pius X are not schismatic. For example in June 1988 when Bishop Lefebvre consecrated four bishops he was not excommunticated on the grounds of schism because the prosecutors found none.
Temra2 2 years ago
Sacraments of St. Pius X Society have Apostolic Succesion as the same like sacraments in Catholic ( Apostolic Succesion from pope) and Orthodox(apostolic succesion from Constantinopol/Moscow/Alexadria/ patriarche) Churches.
KOF89 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
.
Remember Christians, the will of God is no Catholic, Protestant,Orthodox, Penticostal, Adventist, JW, Etc. NO DIVISION, Only Christians, holy, helping and sharing instead of buying and selling.
"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (John 17:9-21)
.
conceil8 2 years ago
@conceil8 The true church isn't catholic or protestant. It doesn't have a mailing address or a zip code. It is the body of believers in Jesus Christ the world over. Christ has written their names in the book of life. Christ knows who His friends are. "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,which is Jesus Christ."1 Corinthians 3:11
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Anglicans pretending to be Catholic again I'm afraid.
allwasforanapple 2 years ago
Andante735, why should you be ashamed of being an Episcopalian? I know we all have different views of how the church should be run, but in the end we are all people who simply want to praise and love our Lord and Creator, and his son Jesus. I don't think there is any wrong way to worship God. I understand that many people disagree with this, but people should not feel restrained by their church life, but instead focus on being at one with God and allowing His spirit to help us in our lives.
missnutmeg95 2 years ago
I'm afraid it really does matter, at least in terms of theology and practice. The Anglican Communion is being torn apart by radical, fascist-styled revisionists, namely a woman who considers herself to be a validly ordained bishop of the church and was duly elected by that church. The ECUSA is a chaotic, politically polarized mess of an insitutution, that makes remaining a member a disturbing idea.
Andante735 2 years ago
I'm ashamed and embarrassed to tell people I'm an Episcopalian, so I remain outside the mainstream, and do not receive any sacraments in the church currently.
Andante735 2 years ago
let me revise that- if you are ordained as a priest and devote yourself to God and the church, you are a priest.
missnutmeg95 2 years ago
i don't get why people are debating "true priesthood". It doesn't matter if you are Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal like me, or any other denomination. If you devote your life to God and the church, you are a priest. In the Episcopal church there are women priests as well, and priests can marry. God isn't sexist.
missnutmeg95 2 years ago
Hi missnutmeg96
I am sure your sincere and you are on the right track but would you consider reading 1Tim.3:1-13. We are all equal before Almighty God but our Heavenly Father did set a certain order for our benefit. Should we not be obedient to His holy will. Our blessed Lord and Saviour Jesus made it all clear for us as recorded in His infallible Word, the holy Bible. May He bless and protect you and cause you to grow in wisdom and grace.
frbjoern 2 years ago
Absolute nonsense.
The Orthodox and the Catholic Church are the only Churches with VALID apostolic succession along with VALID sacraments.
Not to mention that we actually have NON NEGOTIABLE DOGMA's.
Anglicans, Episcopalians etc believe in anything they want.
ariaane 2 years ago
ariaane, there is no wrong way to worship. when i take communion at my epsicopal church, it is as symbolic and holy as at any other church. God makes no distinctions, only asks people to love Him with their whole heart, as I most certainly do. What is wrong with believing anything you want, exactly? If the church tells you what to believe, the Holy Spirit is not allowed to grow inside of you and become a part of you. Each person must decide what THEY believe, not what the chruch believes.
missnutmeg95 2 years ago
That's the diference between the MAN MADE Episcopalian church and the Church Jesus founded.
Christ is actually present in the Eucharist in the Catholic Church- and even the Orthodox Church.
There is no * real prescence * outside of these two Churches.
PS- Jesus established TRUTH- truth which he made manifest in HIS CHURCH.
We are to conform to His truth- not our subjective viewpoints.
ariaane 2 years ago
"And even the Orthodox Church." I wonder what the Orthodox Church would make of such a condescending remark!
bdlcub 2 years ago
Roman Catholics, Anglicans, Indepedent Catholics, and Old Catholics are all Catholics. In essence there are three Catholic representatives, the Pope (Roman Catholicism), who is the most revered figure on Earth and the most important, the Archbishop of Canterbury (Anglicanism) and the Archbishop of Utrecht (Old Catholicism). So there are four different types of Catholicism. Of course most Catholics are Roman Catholic anyways, like me ...
IlStudioso 2 years ago
That is not true.
To be Catholic you must be in FULL communion with Rome.
Old Catholics and Anglicans are not in full communion with Rome.
They accept contraception, abortion, homosexuals acts etc as licit. There is nothing Catholic about them.
ariaane 2 years ago
I didn't say they were "Roman" Catholic. But Old Catholics and Anglicans are Catholics too, hence not Roman Catholics. The main difference lies in their leaders: Archbishop of Utrecht for Old Catholicism, the Archbishop of Canterbury for Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion, and the Archbishop of Rome (the Pope) for Roman Catholicism. The Independent Catholics don't have a head primate.
And I am among the 1.000.000.000 Roman Catholics of the world.
IlStudioso 2 years ago 2
False.
The Pope is the leader of the CATHOLIC Church- which includes 23 rites.
There is the Latin rite and the the Eastern Catholic Churches- with the Byzantine rite being the most popular rite in the Eastern Catholic Church.
The Old catholic church along with the Anglicans have no valid priests nor communion.
Christ founded ONE Church- and He gave the keys of heaven to PETER- and the Pope is his descendant.
Not the archbishop of Cantebury or Utrecht.
ariaane 2 years ago
Although Anglicans and Old Catholics may not be Catholic in reality, that.s what they are classified under. The Pope is only the leader of the Roman Catholic church. There are four types of Catholics, Roman Catholics being the majority of the types.
IlStudioso 2 years ago
Wrong again.
I really do wish you'd educate yourself on history before you write misinformation publicly.
The Pope is the head of the Western and Eastern Catholic Church.
The Old Catholic Church is a MAN MADE PROTESTANT denomination, along with the Anglican church- which was created by Henry VIII.
There are NO Catholics other than the Latin and Eastern Catholics.
ariaane 2 years ago
By Eastern Catholic, you mean such churches as the Ukrainian and Greek Catholic churches? Or do you mean Orthodoxy, which is as different from Catholicism as Protestantism?
IlStudioso 2 years ago
I'm talking about the Eastern Catholic Churches- which include the Ukranian and Greek Catholic Church. There are MANY Eastern Catholic Churches.
By the way, the Orthodox have valid communion and priesthood. The Anglicans do not.
ariaane 2 years ago
Illogical! So if the Pope is the head of both the Western and Eastern rites, the Orthodox should be heretics for not recognizing his authority which makes their church invalid. You can't have it both ways.
holubian 2 years ago
Holubian, just like many on this video you are very uneducated about Catholicism and history of Christinity since the last century.
The SSP- a trad group within the Catholic community is a SCHISMATIC sect- but they are still Catholic and their priests still have VALID orders and VALID communion even though some of the SSPX go as far as to question the seat of Peter.
The Orthodox too, separated in the 11th century, are a SCHISMATIC- not HERETICAL group- who have valid communion and priesthood.
ariaane 2 years ago
Orthodox don't talk heresion. They don't respect pope as the leader of Orthodox Cerkw, but they respect honority primate of pope.
KOF89 2 years ago
In England they may not; but my understanding is that U.S. bishops, at one point in history, went to continental Europe to get blessings from bishops in apostolic succession.
JLFAN2009 2 years ago
Okay-I'm going to say it..Anglican's have a valid priesthood. The world does not revolve around the Roman Church nor the holy father. The fact is there are MANY different forms of belief which is glorious because it shows the beauty of diversity. Until ALL churches and faiths unite with the realization that diversity IS beauty, then I'm afraid there will only be bloodshed and pain in the name of God. Pity.
Chrisrex83 2 years ago
Remember, the Church of England's founder remained a Catholic at heart even though he declared himself Head of the Church. There was a lot of bloodshed and betrayal in the name of God during this time. The Catholics burned many protestants for heresy, and likewise the Church of England banished and murdered many Catholics. We must put aside our differences in opinion and view each other as valid in our own right. We do afterall strive towards the same goal, do we not.?
Chrisrex83 2 years ago
Sorry! Leo XIII was clear!
In the Anglican Church there is no priesthood nor sacraments, so sorry, but don't have real presence either.
Sorry.
hectorconcha 2 years ago
Thank you for proving my point. Bigots like you and Pope Leo only help destroy the beauty of diversity in God's church. Until people like you realize that All churches are valid despite differences in doctrine, there will never be4 peace amongst Christians. People with your opinion are only corrupting and helping to fuel the fires of bigotry. You're not helping the Christian cause.
Chrisrex83 2 years ago
Here's something to make you all think--I've read some interesting works indicating that Jesus lived in Asia before and after the crucifixtion and is actually buried in Rosebal Kashmir. Check it out on Amazon. The traditional Western and Eastern churches didn't solidify until the third century when Christianity was officially recognized by the empire. 350 years or so is a long time--maybe some info was lost along the way.
robcd35 2 years ago
Ive been watching these posts for about a year, and i'm amazed at how many just sort of reapeat in what seems like a little circle of hateful messages, ie: P1:"Not really sacrament/invalid orders." P2:"Nu-uh! Its Real!" P1:"no its not!(insert Apostolicae Curae) P2:"Yes it is!(insert Old Catholic lineage) P3:"I really do love the musi...P1&P2:"SHUT UP IDIOT!" and repeat that for about however many pages until the comments are disabled...
chrisguy210 2 years ago
I am catholic and I am glad anglicans keep the gregorian chants,..
supernatural2029 2 years ago
Many of us still think of ourselves as Catholics and want to come back.
voyager4u 2 years ago
Why dont you? You are not Catholic if you are not a member of the Catholic Church!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
The Anglican church is more Catholic, then the New Order Mass. The new Catholic church post Vatican II. The Old Catholic Church is different then the new faith the controls mostly all of the Catholics Churhes. Just because a church building reads Catholic on it. It does not mean it is a real Catholic. The Church buliding is there but not the Faith.
vsaldanas 2 years ago
As for Trans-substantiation, it all depends on what "branch" of Anglicanism you choose to follow. Most Anglicans believe in Consubstatiation. However some High Anglicans or Anglo Catholics, maintain the doctrine of Trans-substantiation. ;)
Chrisrex83 2 years ago
It is a pity that they do not have a valid Priesthood, if they believe in transubstantiation.
iotaunam1 2 years ago
Orthodox and Roman Cathoics share the same succession - any priest consecrated by Roman Catholic and Orthodox Bishops are priests.
rabadiajloun 2 years ago
But .....many Anglican Priests have been ordained by Orthodox Bishops (or by Anglican bishops consecrated by Orthodox Bishops) - then the line is unbroken. Roman Catholics and Greek orthodox are in schism (an incomplete tearing) and both have the line of succession from the apostles.
rabadiajloun 2 years ago
Perhaps you could do without the woman server (no offense) but it doesn't look uniform.
clarinet001 3 years ago
I never knew Anglicans did this?...
clarinet001 3 years ago 2
Yes ;). There are 3 types of Anglican worship. The low church (more evangelical), the broad church (middle ground), and the high church or Anglo-Catholic (very traditional). Because the English reformation was for political reasons and not religious, both the Church of England and the Roman Catholic church remain very similar in the way they both conduct the Mass.
Chrisrex83 2 years ago
Perhaps their close ties could one day lead both the RC and Ang Churches back to unity :). Pax tecum.
clarinet001 2 years ago 3
I think it is very important for the RC and Anglo Churches to maintain a close friendship. However I highly doubt that the See of Canterbury as well as most Anglicans for that matter would accept the Pope as head of the English Church. That said, our bond should only grow...
Chrisrex83 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I hope so. Us Roman Catholics are one of the world's strongest religions, and I hate it that the PRC officially bans Roman Catholicism in the country. And that's the good thing of Roman Catholicism: it is just one huge religion, not split up in three like Anglicanism.
IlStudioso 2 years ago
We are from the same root!! This one cannot be denied!! Give us a chance!!
kelvintew 3 years ago
Why don't you go and research that and report back??!!
Honestly, the shallow understandings some people have of the English Reformation is breathtaking (pardon the puns!).
pipeup1 3 years ago
It's sad when the Anglicans are more Catholic than the Catholics...
TimsCascadeSnacksFan 3 years ago 26
Yes... I can say this because I'm Catholic. We (the Catholics) can learn many things from our "separated brothers"!
Alaberthus 3 years ago 16
Cottonmouth26:I'm not surprised that you do not know much about Anglicanism, but your grasp of Roman Catholicism is pitiful! There have been only TWO declarations by the Catholic Church that could be termed "infallible" ( by Catholicism's own definition!) The first is Vatican I's declaration that when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra, he is speaking infallibly. The second is the declaration of the doctrine of the Aummption of the BVM.
loyodr 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hitler forced the Jews into ghettos - great historical connection. The Vatican's history is far from pure. If you're going to drag out 'history', then remember to drag out the Vatican's in order to offer a degree of fairness.
Justine
JustineK45 3 years ago
Doubting the Vatican's 'purity' is one thing; impugning it with unrestrained vehemence is quite another. It's worth bearing that in mind before issuing angry condemnations. Other than that, have at it.
spect8or 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Jews are obliged to sell all their property at knock down prices to Christians. They are restricted in commerce to rag trading. 95% of
Synagogues in Rome destroyed. All books burned, including the Talmud. Forced to
wear a yellow hat in public. Countless
oppressive restrictions imposed on Jews
for a mythical crime they could not have
been responsible for.
JustineK45 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Cottonmouth, Try exposing Vatican home truths instead, and you have the audacity to moan about a kings actions.
On 17 July 1555 Pope Paul IV publishes the Bull Cum nimis absurdum, a landmark in anti-Semitism. The Bull stresses that by nature Jews are slaves and should be treated as such. For the first time they are to be confined to an area know as a ghetto. Each ghetto has only one entrance.
JustineK45 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You people sound idiotic speaking so confidently of something you have such little proof of. Don't you realize this babble is what has been fueling wars?
SilasKitty 3 years ago
The Council of Florence infallibly declared that heretics cannot find salvation outside of the Church. The Anglican Church undermines the teachings of Jesus Christ by claiming to be part of the Mystical Body of Christ but in reality, the English Church was founded by a king who married his whore in order to satisfy his earthly and disgusting desires as the king of England. I pray that the Anglicans return to Rome because the Anglican have no true sacraments except baptism and marriage.
Cottonmouth26 3 years ago
Vatican II significantly diluted the extra ecclesia nulla salus decree of Florence. This is the official teaching and if you don't accept in Cottonmouth u are the heretic!! Anyway, who says the Apostolic succession was broken within the Anglican Church? They might have broken communion but all archbishops of Canterbury held the Pallium up to that point.
pipeup1 3 years ago 2
they changed the words of ordination.. we cant assume that they are still valid.. some are but its mostly because of old catholic orders.
altarboy86 3 years ago
If we consider strictly the Roman Catholic doctrine of Ordination, Orthodox or Old Catholic ordinations have been limited to the ordained priest because, if that priest becomes Bishop, he can't ordain other valid priests or bishops due to lack of validity of the Anglican formulas. On the contrary, if we accept as valid an "analogue" formula, then Anglican clergy is in valid Apostolic succession.
Alaberthus 3 years ago
Why on earth Anglicans do this I have no idea. You cannot rip teh Deuterocanonical books of the Church Father out of the Bible and claim to members of the Body of Christ (The Roman Catholic Church).
In essence, this is nothing more than a nice bit of theatre with some bread and wine thrown in for good measure.
I nearly died from the irony of attending an Anglican wedding where 'Ave Verum Corpus' was sung! Why bother, when you don't even believe in the True Presence, nor have licit authority?!
iamlondon 3 years ago
Many thanks for your comments.
Re the scriptural texts: Anglicans have always read the Deuterocanonical/Apocryphal books in the liturgy, but since their status has been disputed for many centuries, and not all Christians accept them, we do not base any binding doctrine on them.
Cantuariensis 3 years ago
Re the Real Presence: The ARCIC documents on the Eucharist, affirmed by the Lambeth Conference, assert, "10. According to the traditional order of the liturgy the consecratory prayer (anaphora) leads to the communion of the faithful. Through this prayer of thanksgiving, a word of faith addressed to the Father, the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit, so that in communion we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood."
Blessings and peace
Fr Rod
Cantuariensis 3 years ago
I am fully aware of the ARCIC documents on the Eucharist, but what the Anglican communion asserts about the nature of the Sacrifice is not what it practices. Not according to the Churches of St Peter and the Eastern Churches. "Well they can think what they want" is a usual response to that statement. In spite of that, I wonder what it is, other than culture, that prevents an Anglican from following the example of Venerable Cardinal Newman and making the leap of Faith instead of merely aping it.
iamlondon 3 years ago
Hi! I'm thinking aobut Anglicanism and would you mind explaing to me how this is different from transubstantiation, because I don't understand it. Thank you!
Sohaila95 3 years ago
RE: "...the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ by the action of the Holy Spirit, so that in communion we eat the flesh of Christ and drink his blood."
That's a good thing in my eyes
tlh215 3 years ago 3
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tlh215 eat the flesh drink his blood."<<
YUM thems good vittles.
EGMAG 2 years ago
@iamlondon The Anglicans actually use the same canon of the bible as the Roman Catholic Church, they have all the books taken out during the reformation.
CommieThreat 1 year ago
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It's amazing that this Mass (although celebrated by a priest with invalid orders)is much more Catholic in its externals and its attention to the art of liturgy is amazing.
invisoweasel 3 years ago
You're right. Hopefully, when the Traditional Anglican Communion returns home, it will serve as a bridge to connect the rest of all of the High Church Anglicans and other protestant groups. England should never have separated from Rome, all over a family dynasty that ended one generation after Henry. If God wills it, the Anglicans will one day be a uniate Catholic Church, the first non-Roman Western Rite Catholics!
starchyp92 3 years ago
Amen to that. Give it 50 years and it'll be nothing but 'priests' left in the Anglican community - they have tons of ministers and trust funds to keep the buildings standing up, but the whole thing doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
iamlondon 3 years ago
Actually the Popes representatives and the Anglican representatives have for sometime been talking about the two re-joining under the authority of the Pope. Seems only two obstacles and they are becoming more entrenched: 1. Ordination of women priests and 2. Active homosexual bishops.
These two issues will not be accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.
DianePa 3 years ago
Anglicans cannot attain eternal salvation outside the holy Roman Church unless they return into full communion with Her. The Anglican ordinations are invalid. Their bishops and "priests" can neither bless, consecrate, nor absolve sinners from their sins. They have no power. The Anglican Church is not the Catholic Church but a Mistress of Satan, the Father of Lies and Half-Truths.
Cottonmouth26 3 years ago
"Mistress of Satan" is both erroneous and scandalous according to Catholic teaching. They are a communion in search of Christ, although they be outside of the One Church. Beware of committing Scandal - it is a mortal sin.
For the record, I am a Roman Catholic Seminarian.
Pax.
iamlondon 3 years ago
As a Catholic, I am disappointed with the sudden ruptures in the liturgy, and the refusal of our Archbishop to have a Traditional Latin Mass celebrated in the City. Although I disagree with the Episcopalians, on the outside, this service has a lot more in common with the Old Mass than the new mass celebrated today. If the celebrant has valid Apostolic Succession through a valid bishop with valid Holy Orders, this could be a Catholic Mass.
starchyp92 3 years ago
If you pay attention and watch strictly, the mass is not completely correct. Though it seems simular to our Tridentine mass, it isn't the same.
Obeying Rome, this mass isn't valide like the NO-Mass.
Gspijkenisse 3 years ago
I know, because they lack Apostolic succession, right form, right matter, and right intention. But, things are improving in the Church. At a Church that I go to, the priest says the absolution in Latin. I also just came from a trip in France/Monaco, and my group sang several parts of the Mass--Kyrie, Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus, and Agnus Dei, while the rest was in French. And this was in the beautiful Cathedral of St. Nicholas in Monaco.
starchyp92 3 years ago
I think that the Mass and the Chant is wonderful! Reguardless of what some stuck-up Norwegian traddy says, lol :)
chrisguy210 3 years ago
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haha... just listen to the accent, it's hilarious.
Not worthy to call Gregorian Chant...
Gspijkenisse 3 years ago
By The Way, Women are forbidden on the altar during a Tridentine Mass!
Gspijkenisse 3 years ago
Many thanks for taking the time to view this video and leave a comment. One thing to note, however, is that this is not a Tridentine Mass. It is an Anglican Mass sung in Latin according the use of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer of the Episcopal Church.
Pax tecum.
Fr. Rod
Cantuariensis 3 years ago
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Ow, haha. Then you're not celebrating the Eucharist at all, for you are not in union with the Holy Mother Church.
Just being busy worshipping plain bread and pieces of metal, thinking it is Jesus on a cross.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
But I do find it offending when heretics use the sacred music of Saint Gregory.
Please stop it....!
domine, ne respicias peccata sua, et dimitte se debita sua
Gspijkenisse 3 years ago
There's a difference between "righteousness" and "self-righteousness."
jovian16 3 years ago
stop trying to make cheap political points
sithlord1012 3 years ago
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The Gregorian chant is real bad. The pronouncation is so typical american. And the singers should kneel during consecration...
You're a shame for the Tridentine Mass.
Gspijkenisse 3 years ago
This isn't Catholic but Anglican. So it's just bread not the real Christ.
mariuszs3 3 years ago
There are those Anglicans - I am one of them - who indeed subscribe to transubstantiation. I find your comment to offensive in the extreme.
wmcarton 3 years ago
Ya i know about that, you believe that the bread becomes the body and after wards it becomes bread or something. But the teaching of my Catholic church says since your apostolic succession is invalid and your bishops cannot be traced to St. Peter because of this all your sacraments are invalid. When an Anglican priest wants to convert to the Pope approved Book of Common prayer he needs re ordination. As such I did not mean for it to be offensive I'm just telling the truth. You worship bread.
mariuszs3 3 years ago
The truth for you. Not the truth for everyone. Their faith is just as valid as your faith.
UWGTrebleClef 3 years ago
"They" worship what is right for them just as Catholics and everyone else does waht their faith leads them to follow. You can't tell them what they worship since you're not even sure yourself, otherwise you wouldn't be blindly following the "teaching" of the Catholic Church, which to my recollection is much more open minded than your post.
wishmealove 3 years ago
My post was based upon the current stance of the RCC regarding the Anglican Church.
mariuszs3 3 years ago
I don't doubt that many Anglicans believe in Transubstantiation. However, Transubstantiation can only be effected by a valid successor to the Apostles (a bishop) or his delegate (a priest). This only stands to reason, since Christ gave this authority only to His Apostles, not just to anyone. Because the Anglican Church broke with this Apostolic succession, their priests, no matter how firmly they believe in Transubstantiation, cannot transform the bread and wine.
MckyJcksn 3 years ago
So if you believe in the Catholic theology of the Eucharist, and if you accept (as the Anglican Church has) that the Bishop of Rome enjoys a certain primacy over the other bishops, why would you not return to Rome?
MckyJcksn 3 years ago
Wow, what a shocker - Americans speak Latin with an American accent! I bet that all the ancient Romans will laugh at them when they go to ancient Rome on vacation and try to order in a restaurant...
billydinpvd 3 years ago 3
....and besdies, God forbid homosexual activity, not homosexuality. He also forbif pre-marital sex. Its all about chastity. 80% of child pedophiles are straight- American Pcshycological Association. God ordered the Jews to use objects in the his worship, including statues- read the entire book of Exodus and you will see!
corpuschristi15 3 years ago
Homosexual acts are only sinful if they are done poorly.
dutchguy 3 years ago 2
Im not sure what your trying to say. =]
corpuschristi15 3 years ago
So many so-called Christians have been making anti-gay and anti-Anglican comments here. I was trying to be funny by saying that homosexual acts are only sinful if they are done poorly. For example, this could be having one's partner's teeth interefering with oral sex... that sort of thing.
dutchguy 3 years ago
oh. well anyone who discriminates agaisnt gays should be shot!
corpuschristi15 3 years ago 3
No one should be targeted for violence for anything! No Church officially sanctions violence. The RC Catechism teaches that same-sex acts are sinful, but also teaches that gay persons shouldn't be targeted for unjust discrimination (Catechism 2358). This vile speech being exchanged between different members of different churches is so alien to the love of Christ. This unchristian spite is a grave scandal and harms the church's credibility and wounds the cause of Christian reunion. God is love!
dutchguy 3 years ago
couldn't agree with you more! it's a shame that many hypocrytes have to be the christians of today though!=[
corpuschristi15 3 years ago
Lol. As a Roman Catholic, I got your humour and laughed with you. Lord but non-Catholics are so humourless.
iamlondon 3 years ago
I want to know what is the middle object on the table.
tguodong 3 years ago
On the green altar it is probably the Gospel book. On the high altar with the candles it is the tabernacle where the sacraments are kept.
901cleo 3 years ago
The endless back and forth bickering here makes me glad that I left Christianity years ago. Beautiful churches and liturgies? Yes. But endless blah blah blah about who is right or wrong, about who did this and that, about what God wants and doesn't want, about who is faithful or unfaithful, about which church is true or false, etc.
lichtbroeder 3 years ago
Good reasons for leaving. Why be bothered by what is and is not Truth?
You sound like some highschool kid that drops out of school because he can't figure out algebra.
ecclesiamilitans1099 3 years ago
With a little searching, a Traditional Roman Catholic church that uses the Tridentine Latin Mass can still be found. The schism caused by the Novus Ordo New Mass was the fulfillment of prophesy where Jesus Christ would separate the sheep from the goats. Reunification would defeat that purpose! Attend a modern New Mass, then a Tridentine Latin Mass with its aura of reverence and antiquity, and you'll see the difference!
InfiniteMushroom 4 years ago
No i meant reunification with the other Churches of Catholic descent. Im all for the tridentine Mass. I detest the New Mass (it isnt really a mass) All i was saying is that if the Episcapols can do it, we sure as hell can!
Winaska 4 years ago
I would be the first to agree that 90% of Novus Ordo celebrations are sacrilegious and dishonor God,but there are a great many good and holy priests who celebrate it with dignity and the proper respect.The Tridentine Mass is not the end-all of good worship,and has itself been changed since the council of Trent. Do you get the irony of you saying 'we sure the hell can', referring to something religious? You have lost the true spirit of the Tridentine or any Mass if you do not love in your heart.
MuffinMojo 4 years ago