Beginner's Guide to Subtlety Rogue PvE Part2

[bluesnake202]

hey im a noob at subtley rogue and i i dont know what macros do and i could use some lvling tips as a rogue plz heko :D

[allocate]

Oh awesome, I just found your power auras tutorial and import. Thanks again!

[LTVProdoction]

what is your add-on can you link it?

[VoldemortOmegawow]

its easy to play rogue in cata, in woltk they were rly hard for playing.

[TheNakedgun79]

since the recent buff to hemo, would you still recommend backstab as the primary attack? I have heard that the DPS difference is minimal

[DanielGames604]

@TheNakedgun79 I have no 100% answer for that since it's still being debated on the ej forums. For now I would stick with backstab if you can backstab, otherwise hemo. There's a lot of talk about using glyphed hemo just to keep the hemo dot up, then backstab as filler. As you said, I've heard the dps difference is minimal and the hemo route just complicates things with another dot to keep track of.

[rdbthegreat]

I have to say this guide is awesome. It has become my bible. One question. What are the add ons that you are using? I dont think you have posted this before. They seem quite useful!

[DanielGames604]

@rdbthegreat The addons I used is listed in the FAQ section buried in the video description :)

[thecoolermaster55]

take points out of SB and fill out initiative, rupture does terrible damage

[DanielGames604]

@thecoolermaster55 Pretty sure I explain why it's good in this video but basically you're only spending 5cp to apply a bleed that, if executed right and the boss fight allows it, stays ticking on the boss the entire fight amounting to very good damage for what you paid for it.

[MrJpascua]

@DanielGames604 I'm a 85 nelf subtlety rogue and i was reforging into hit/haste like you. This is not as effective as crit ive found out, why?? Because with backstab glyph crit can be just as effective and with double hurricane enchant its pretty much all u need to get your combo points up. Crit also provides more of a dps buff because of puncturing wounds talent and it works on your bleeds. Something that you dont benefit from when reforging haste. Crit is more effective imo

[MrJpascua]

@MrJpascua sorry i meant to say 'Lethality' rather than 'puncturing wounds'

[lTHRICEl]

I loved your video but are you using just your keyboard bindings to control all of those rotations?

[DanielGames604]

@lTHRICEl I'm not a clicker :P

[DanielGames604]

@lTHRICEl Oh I guess I could be using my mouse too. Nope, just keyboard for most of em. 123456rtyfgh`, same thing holding shift, and f1 f2 f3 f4. My mount is also bound to my mouse key :P

[Misstakeda]

I think it's great that you are showing the Sub dps rotation and all, and I do love me some Sub, but with your gear wouldn't it just be better to not worry about all this and be an Assass Rogue? Like I said I do love Sub, but Assass is just higher DPS, isn't it?

[DanielGames604]

@n1hx Check my videos. I have a power auras tutorial with a link to a set you can import :)

[mflo02]

can u share your powr auras?

[edvinux96]

dude, thanks for useful macros!

[KarmahEdits]

I heard that Rogues in general are NOT wanted in raids, nor are melee dps at all.. Is this true?

[WoodWolfStudios]

What's that beautiful music in the background when you talk about gear?

[DanielGames604]

@WoodWolfStudios I have the song name appear at the bottom left of the video when a new song starts :)

[bdave111]

im the only rogue on my server that raids sub. Unless the boss mechanics totally suck i generally pull my weight in dps and add a lot of speed and utility to any fight, especially something like omnitron where movement is so key. Some people respect my choice and love to raid with me. Some people are of course hesistant to think I could be any good. On DPS race fights like Argolath im easily top 2 dps every time. More importantly, I survive where most others melee could not.

[mimer101]

Isn't 3/3 honor among thieves overkill? anywyas, awesome guide, I might one day try it.

[MyTVfloats]

@mimer101 Each point not only increases the chance for the combo point but decreases the cd to gain the extra combo point from 4 second cd with 1/3 to 2 second cd with 3/3.

[mimer101]

@MyTVfloats I did not know about the cooldown. The chance is usually irrelevant though, thats why I asked:P Kind of like 1/2 waylay ty

[thinkbigg1]

Question. Can I just use glyph of hemo instead of rupture as a bleed effect sSo instead worrying about 3 finishes, i can just worry about 2? Or does it lower the dps by too much?

[DanielGames604]

@thinkbigg1 Keeping up the glyphed hemo bleed multiple times throughout the fight is a huge dps loss compared to keeping rupture up for many reasons. 1) you're wasting a lot of energy because the hemo bleed doesn't last as long as rupture (which lasts forever if done right) 2) hemo sucks 3) You're essentially paying 0 energy to apply a bleed that shouldn't fall off the entire fight, That's free damage you're losing. :)

[Lancun]

You're gonna love 4.1 with the increased Tricks range coming up. Looks like Sub might get more love and be more viable in the coming patch.

[DanielGames604]

@Lancun The tricks buff is nice but that affects all rogue specs. I don't see any subtlety rogue pve buffs other than the extra 1% baseline on recuperate and the faster movement speed while in stealth (which shouldn't matter because we have shadow step). :)

[vichiaverini067]

man i`m trying to do a DAMN FUCKKING BUTTON LIKE YOURS FOR BEEN 2 DAYS AND I CANT HIT THE FUCKKING CORRECT CONFIG TO THIS FUCKKING AND STUPID FUCKKING POWER AURAS!!!! HOW DO YOU DO THIS FUCKKING BUTTON BUFFS COLDOWN!!! AND HOW THEY COUNT HIGHER TO LOWER??? DAMN FUCKKING ANNOYING FUCKKING POWER AURAS CONFIGURATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!! HOW I FUKKCING HATE THIS ADDON!!! NOTHING WORK LIKE YOURS!!!

[IIlidanStormrage]

@vichiaverini067 You mad bro?

[CanAm85]

@vichiaverini067

Wow. You really need to concentrate on getting an education and not this game. Illiteracy is no joke. I would also suggest therapy. I hope that by the time you hit high school, you will have grown out of this nerdrage.

[vichiaverini067]

Could you put a link to copy the aura-string of your couldowns? how do you did this "buttons" of spell on the left.... with red background and the colored same buton inside the red button when activated.... do you created 3 auras 1 for each state of each spell ??

[DanielGames604]

@1Isolda I'm a hordie at heart :3

[vichiaverini067]

WHATS THE NAME OF THIS ADDON THAT SHOW THE TIMES AT LEFT SIDE THE FEATHERS UNDER YOU AND THESE 2 YELLOW (WHATS THIS?) BARS ABOVE THE 5 FEATHERS !!!

[DanielGames604]

@vichiaverini067 Power Auras. Left side show cooldown abilities and timers. Bottom shows energy and combo points. Right side shows debuffs that I can apply and help my dps like bleed, hemo, and expose armour.

[CanAm85]

@vichiaverini067

The capslock is on to show you are angry or to get attention?

[tdruzian]

PS: my internet is not that good... and I can't watch on HD settings =(

[tdruzian]

Hello! Great guide for begginers like me! Please, add on somewhere (a new video will be great) with you addons and macros! Low resolution on youtube =(

[DanielGames604]

@tdruzian macros are in this video and I have nothing more to add on it. Power Auras video is coming soon.

[Softsolid]

Great guide, thank you!

However, I, like other comments, am also curious about the Power Aura setup. The thing I can't figure out is how to set up the "boxes" of recuperate, slice and dice, rupture etc, which you have on the left side of you character (which displays time remaining for the buff/debuffs).

If you could explain how that is set up that would be really helpful.

Cheers

[Meggymouse0309]

@Softsolid I'll cover it in broad strokes and leave the details to you. If you create an aura with the guideline of Buff (or Debuff with Enemy Target checked), check "use own texture" and enable the Timer (on the self-named tab), that'll create the "ON" timer. You can then make an identical aura, invert the conditions, drop the timer, drop the opacity and change the color to Red. Pretty sure that's what he did.

[Softsolid]

@Meggymouse0309  Alright m8, I'll definitley give that a try. Thank you (:

[Kyohakumaru]

How does haste affect energy regen? And how much amount of haste would be ideal?



[DjChrissoow]

Could you make a guide how you setup power auras like you did ? Cuz it really looks awesome and helpful. I would realy love to have it for my rogue too.

[robertterry2]

Could you export your Power Aura layout for me?

[KoTowaty]

sound volume to low... great guide! briliant, sub rogue in pve i waited so long for this :D im not afraid of "timers" i played affli lock :>

[Roth1999]

Hi everyone know what spec is good for PvE with a rogue plz help me...

[rysskryssning]

I've got a question regarding PvP, incase you're bothered in answering. How many of these are necessary to keep up in terms of killing people in PvP? I'd assume rupture and expose armor have to go, because of garrote handling the 10% increased damage and expose armor isn't that much of a dps increase if you're just one person.

[Scrungie1]

great video! I wish all instructional videos were this thorough:P

I only do pvp on my rogue but as far as the poisons go... wound poison does more dmg than instant for subtlety. Only assassination rogues use instant because of Improved Poisons.

[DanielGames604]

@Scrungie1 You get more overall dps if you use IP and DP because DP procs IP once you get 5 stacks and because of that fact alone, IP's higher damage per proc beats out WP's higher ppm. Everyone rogue spec uses this combo in pve.

[DjChrissoow]

@DanielGames604 DP on main weapon or on offhand ?

[moepskie]

Awesome guide, thanks a lot!

[DanielGames604]

@zlerwer It's on my todo list, as well as soloing ZulAman (just need to find music for it) and a followup on Subt pve.

[tdruzian]

@DanielGames604 Please do! I tried by myself configure Power Aura, that is almost good... (i am a lvl 51 rogue by now... never had it... only priest)

[deurmat100]

Very nice videoguide. One of the best I've ever seen.I'm looking forward to more videos. Keep up the amazing work daniel.

[RichieEastside]

AWESOME guide!! Big thumbs up for this one.  Seems you and I do quite a bit of things quite similarly as opposed to some other sub pve rogues, the few of us that there are.

Just out of curiosity, the biggest problem I'm having with this spec is keeping my dps up on loose trash. Any suggestions? I would use FoK but I'm having such a hard time finding a decent thrown weapon and the ranged weapons come with so much agi that I can't give them up and go with a thrown...any ideas on that?

[dw7039]

Thanks for your video. Just a question about your Power Aura buffs,

while you are in combat, but when certain buffs (lets say SnD) is not activated, your icon shows up red without the timer and when its activated, it goes back into colour mode and the timer shows up, how do you get to do that? I've been playing around with the addon for a couple of hours now and its starting to get annoying.

Thanks for sharing this.

PS. Your import code link doesn't work anymore!

[DarkSydeMelvin]

Super informative vids :)

[VvIVIatthewvV]

lol @ reaching behind the sun at 12:00

great video though, helped me alot :)

[jeepster2k3]

Any way you can post an export of your power aura's? I really like how you have them setup.

[DanielGames604]

@jeepster2k3 Look under my channel comments for a link to the import code. When I make my subt pve follow up video I'll make it easier for everyone to get.

[Link9164]

The only problem i have with your videos is that the volume was really low.

everything else is superb! you made me play on my rogue again :P assassination and combat pve had way to easy rotation :D

[DanielGames604]

@Link9164 Yeap. I'll be the first to admit that the volume was super low. I was wearing headphones the entire time I was making this and when I listened to it with them off I was shocked. Not sure what I did wrong (I didn't lower the voice audio). It's on my to fix list in future videos. Thanks for liking it!

[derVadok]

so what the top dps of Subtlety Rogue PvE with 359+ lvl gear in perfect conditions with perfect rotation and raid buffs? Does it worse to master Subtlety in PvE?

P.S. very detailed and constructive video. Thx a lot)

[DanielGames604]

@derVadok No clue. All my experence in progression raiding has taught me that nothing is perfect and you just have to adapt :) Play the spec you want to play honestly.

[DanielGames604]

@SPUNKKK Pretend poisons don't exist right now. You'll still want a slow mainhand because your backstab's damage is based on how hard your weapon hits per swing, not it's dps. Having a fast weapon doesn't reduce the energy cost of backstab so you'd be paying the same energy but doing less damage with it. Now back to poisons, IP is a proc/minute while DP is a % based chance and procs IP once you get 5 stacks. You should be procing IP a lot more if your DP is on your faster hand.

[SPUNKKK]

@DanielGames604

Aahhh of course, that makes sense. Now i get it :) Ty for replying.

[SPUNKKK]

So instant poison on slow wep and deadly poison on fast wep? Why is that

I have fast dagger in main and slow axe in off .. is that bad?

[KingofThieves10]

Hey thanks for the video, really helpful. I am 70 right now and throughout most the instances everythings dieing pretty quick except the bosses. Can you recommend what i should be doing against those weaker guys? Im basically just Shadowstep ambushing whenever i can and preparation anytime i can. Then just spamming backstab and hemmorage with S&D/eviscerate as the combo dump.

[wowcoolstorybro13]

Have you tryed Assassination? i have roughly about the same gear as you and i do 2k more dps on that fight , But still a great video i loved it was good to know that subtlety has become more viable for pve. Keep up the work. Cheers!

[Borrello3]

I'm going to be the first to dislike this video because it makes me feel powerful.

[DonPatch97]

could u use a slow mainhand if u know u can't get behind the target?

[bigdavido82]

Really great vid buddy. Super informative and very well done. Very impressive and kudos!

[Skyfighter64]

My personal tendency of controlling all my finishers seems to be quite a bit simpler than the plan you have put up there.

Long story short: at the begining of the fight (pre-engagement) Premeditation>Recuperate. ShS>Ambush>Hemo>Rupture is my first set of moves. gives me my damage buffs in no time, and gets maximum modifiers on Rupture (this is important, as your biggest rupture should stay on the target through the whole fight). After that, it's Recup.>Evisc.>SnD>Evisc, lather, rinse, repeat.

[DanielGames604]

@Skyfighter64 That's what I've been hearing in MMO-Champion and I'm shocked I completely missed that damage opportunity. Rupture during the 10% master of subtlety buff is too good. Thanks for your input :)

[Skyfighter64]

I am a subtlety rogue. I have been one since back in the Burning Crusade, and honestly, your guide goes against the larger part of what I have learned as a Sub rogue since Cataclysm hit.

I tend to think, that instead of the Eviscerate glyph, there should be glyph of Hemo (40% of the hemo damage as bleed, before Hemo buff). this just sets up another bleed on the target, and also gives us our 20% damage buff in the second GCD of combat, further buffing the big rupture that I use.

[Meijenrr]

I really liked this video, even though I can't play Sub because I'm in a progression guild I like learning about it as I find it the most fun rogue spec.

[MyTVfloats]

First, I'd like to say, great video. I am leveling my rogue and always loved sub the most. Quick question, though, at one point I read that garrote did more damage, so you should use it during shadowdance. Have you done any tests with it? I'd like to know for future reference.

[DanielGames604]

@MyTVfloats I did a small test that shouldn't be taken literally. I put hemo and expose armour on a lvl 88 target dummy. Ambush crit did 15k while a Garrote with 2 crit ticks did 14.5k. I guess if you had a lot of crit rating then it might be better but Ambush has a +60% crit chance. For me that's a 86% chance. Garrote also costs 5 more energy. Just my small little test. I didn't use these abilitie 1000000 times to find an average. Hope this helps :)

[DanielGames604]

@MyTVfloats I should also note that a 15k Ambush crit is probably as low as it gets. My Backstab can crit for 20k+ and Ambush hits harder than Backstab :P

[MyTVfloats]

@DanielGames604 OK, I will leave garrote for pvp. Previously, I used garrote as soon as I went into shadow dance, so I could apply find weakness instead of gimping my first ambush, but thank you for the reply.(lvl 74)

[firesofork]

Hey, thanks for this great video... same feedback as the person below... if you could provide some info on which addons you are using it would be perfect. Thanks again!

[DanielGames604]

@firesofork Added which addons I used in the FAQ section in the video description. They're power auras, fortexorcist, tinyplates, and skada. :)

[fkrieger23]

Thanks, good info!

[Jonezuke]

First of all, thx for great video.

There is just one thing that was bothering me, the addons.

A little description and the names of them would be great, especially the one that keeps track of your buffs.

[DanielSmith604]

@Jonezuke The addons you see in the middle of the screen are Power Auras and ForteXorcist. I'll write this up in the FAQ section in the video description. Thanks :)