GOLD !!! I am currently going to go down this road. Not for myself, but father in law and his friends. $30 per reel doesnt sound like much. but when you have 50 reels, a DIY telecine is the answer.
@ynnebbenny . That's how I started, with about 30No. 600ft reels it would have cost a fortune. Though after 6 years, I still have 5 to go, due to also replacing the sound tracks.If you read the comments below you should be able to pick some tips, but if you have any problems, just ask. BEST OF LUCK.
I cannot count how many times I have watched this footage and it never fails to made me think back on those years with fondness.Thanks for the memories!
@triceramovieboy . For PAL systems you must set the projector speed to 16.66 frames per second & the camcorder exposure to 1/50th second & there will be no flicker. The video shows you how to do it.
@mickthebl You've done a great transfer hat off to you! By the way what sort of Canon Camcorder is it? I have set up your exact system good transfer but resolution is not as good as yours but then im camcorder isn't as good as yours by the looks of it? I presume it's digital?
@whatthebutlersaw01 It is a standard definition, 3CCD,Canon XM2.digital video camcorder. Originally I used a digital Canon MVX150i until it it broke & I replaced it with the 3CCD model.Although the definition is slightly better with the 3CCD one, the original produced excellent results. If you use a High Definition camcorder you would get even better results than mine, but you have the problem of aspect ratio, as they all seem to be in widescreen format, some form of masking would be required.
Remarkably the best quality 8mm to video transfer I have seen, Together with a full and clear explanation of how to achieve such results. My only criticism of the transfer is the rare whiteouts, particularly in areas of sky. Maybe locking the exposure at the start when setting white balance could eliminate these, but it could make things worse, depending on the exposure mix in the original footage. Your video has both instructed and encouraged me. And that music, its just so evocative.
@VideoClapper . Glad that you found it interesting. I think that the whiteouts are down to Utube. I have just had a look at the original on the DVD player. There are no whiteouts & you can clearly see the shape of the white clouds against a very pale blue sky, you can even see white smoke rising from a chimney in the distance, which cannot be seen on Utube. The exposure has to be locked at 1/50th second for the transfer but the aperture is automatic. Overall the quality of the DVD is superior.
@TheOzphotoman The condenser lens acts as a large magnifying glass which allows the camcorder to capture the image of the film in the projector gate. If you use a ground glass screen you will have a problem with grain though this can be reduced by using the largest possible screen, you may also have a problem with a hotspot & contrast. One of the posters below recommends tracing paper which gave him acceptable results.
Interesting. I am about to embark on a similar project, however I am using a digital still camera with video capability to record direct to AVI. I have done initial tests to see how much flicker I got by just videoing directly off a screen and it worked very well, but with flicker.
I am in Australia and have a Mark S Eumig 807D (had it since new). The cameras I have to use are either 29.97 fps or 24 fps. Initial experiments produce flicker. Do I still set the Eumig to 16.66 and 50Hz, or 60Hz? I have s/w (handbrake) that wil convert to lower frame rates if necessary.
@TheOzphotoman - In the UK the power is 50ccs ( Dont know about Oz) & by setting the flag at 60ccs it alters the speed range ( mechanically ) from 18-24 to 14-20fps.
Try adjusting the projector speed with your s/w ( whatever that is ) until the flicker stops. Alternately you could try inserting a dimmer switch on the projector lead - BE CAREFUL NOT TO DAMAGE THE MOTOR!!!!
@TheOzphotoman- For flicker free PAL transfers the projector must run at 16.66fps with a standard camcorder running at 25fps set to an exposure of 1/50th sec.The problem could be that your camera is running at 24fps & may not have an exposure setting of 1/50th sec.
Thanks, I was not sure how the 50/60Hz came into play. In Oz it is 50, so that will be OK. I'll need to check the shutter speed. I do have a dimmer device, actually a drill spped controlle I made myself, so that will work if required.
@TheOzphotoman . That,s fine, with the flag set at 50ccs, & the slide set at 18fps, time a short film, calculate the time at 16.66fps, reset the flag at 60ccs, & adjust the slide so that the film plays at the required time. It will now be set at 16.66fps - all as shown in the video.
Nope sorry man im sticking to my original statement 'in that you are the genius' on this one..Ok so Roger aligned a condenser lens with a mirror, I think we may all have tried mirrors and lenses in the quest of doing 8mm transfers but suffered
flare\hot spots \and flicker!.. Its your mod's to the Eumig that win the day & also what a great Video you have made to illustrate your project (excellent) So i hope your are blushing--Its the winning colour.. (Well done)
Well done..Thats pure genius man how u got such a 'flicker' free image -and so sharp off a Standard 8 print.. I have been looking at some Telecine transfer
machines costing around £2000 and the results are nothing like what you are
getting off that old Eumig.. I know most of the good transfer quality is due to the condenser lens but in the end the projector and the mod's are what give the
final result, and your final result is 'surperb' and i have totally enjoyed looking at that 8mm film..
@ducter2001 Thanks for the compliment-you almost made me blush.Roger Evans? of Moviestuff is the genius, I just copied his Cinemate & fiddled about with the projector until it worked.Also I only used the best shots of the 8mm film,if I had used the poor ones, you probably would have a different opinion.How you upload it to Utube makes a difference I believe-I used an AVI file & it took 13 hours- (don't know how else to do it)This may have something to do with the quality but original is better.
@muzboz Providing you can find the right projector,lens & mirror, you should not have a problem. The projector needs to be slowed down to 16.66fps & I think it must have a 3 bladed shutter. You will also need an editing programme to speed the transfer back to 24fps. Have a look at the " Moviestuff" website, they have 16mm units which run at 16.66 & 25fps. The 16.66 fps will have a three bladed shutter & requires a camcorder exposure of1/50sec for PAL.Don't know about the shutter on 25fps unit.
@muzboz. Before I found out how to mechanically adjust my projector I used a dimmer switch on the main lead which was not very successful.To check that you have the correct speed, project on to a screen,film the image with a camcorder & adjust the projector until the flicker stops. See " kodak(elmo) 16mm 5-BLADE ( NO FLICKER) FILM TRANSFER - pizzaguy 2002" His projector speed will be different than yours as you are on the PAL system. Set the camcorder at 1/50 sec & adjust the projector to suit.
@mickthebl Hi I came across this tut as I am about to transfer some old cine films of mine - I am 70! Can you tell me the focal length of the lens as I am getting no image at all on it. Thanks pl help. The proj I'm using is Bolex 18-5
@hmarillejla7 . Sorry but I do not know the focal length of the condenser lens.It is 5 inch double convex, 3mm thick at the edge/rim & 15mm o/a in the centre.I think it is 3 dioptres. I believe if you use a standard magnifying glass with a 1.50 - 2.0 magnification this will work. See other comments below. Make sure that your lamp is not too powerful - if you can look into the projector lens & see the film frame in the gate clearly without hurting your eye, that is all the illumination you need
Amazing! I just did a quick test with a recently recorded ektachrome 64T, a shaving mirror and a 3" magnifying glass, and the results were stunning, Never saw the film that sharp. I think next week I will try to buy a larger magnifiyning glass (5") and make some kind of box with a rectangular mirror in it, I'd hope it will work :)
Actually I've replaced the 100W spot by a 2700k LED lamp, which works quite well for telecine, and there is no hot spot anymore (because of the separate leds)
@ginkelvanmichiel . Well done! If you manage to find a 5 inch magnifying glass, I believe it needs to have a magnification of 1.5 - 2.0. If you do get a hotspot, you could probably insert a glass diffuser between the LEDs & gate. I have accurately remeasured my lens & it is 5" dia, 3.0mm thick at the edge/rim, & 15mm o/a in the middle. It is double convex.
When you are sucessful, I would be very interested to see it, so please add it to your site.
I'ts allmost a year ago, but, at last I've uploaded a super8 movie through the same sort of telecine. And it works superb :) I will add it as a video-reply. :)
@ginkelvanmichiel How are you powering the led? I just got a 12V MR16 led. I'm scared to connect it to the 12V from the projector cause I'm not sure about the amps and what will happen. How many elements does your led have?
I've used a non-dimmable 12v MR16. Before mounting it I've measured the out going amps and compared it with the data sheet of the spot, which actually has 21 LEDs in it. Subsequently I've connected the led to the projector and turned it on, and as said, for Telecine it works superb, because there are multiple light sources instead of one central source. You can't use it as a real projector, just because the wattage of the LED is a lot less than the original 100W halogen spot.
@ginkelvanmichiel I'll give that a try. The led I have has a single element. These led's are getting very powerful. I've been following this thread for a while as "nevetstdlob" but google messed up my accounts. I got my Eumig running OK and I just received a first suface mirror for the box I'll make.
Nice job! Can you tell me about your condenser lens? is it flat on one side (Plano- convex) or convex on both sides. I know it is 5 inches in diameter . If it is flat on one side witch side is facing the camcorder. I have a bunch of 8mm films to transfer and your video inspired me to do it your way it looks great, My and i also enjoyed you music selection. you made a nice help full video. thank you
@jimerd1 . Thanks for the compliment. The condenser lens is double convex - convex both sides. It is 5 inches in diameter, 3/16 thick at the edge & 7/16 in the middle. I think it is 3 dioptres. I read an article where a 4 inch magnifying glass with a magnification of 1.5 - 2.0 had been sucessfully used for this purpose. I tried it with a 3 1/2 inch lens lens but was unsucessful due the lens being too powerful. An optical supplier should be able to advise you.
Thanks mickthebl. My Sankyo doesn't hold 20 fps very well so I'm going to try a setup like you have with a couple mods. I'm going to make a transfer box and use Duralene or Herculean drafting film instead of the lens. I like the look it gives. A first surface mirror is easy to find. I'll see if i can use a battery powered light source with a dimmer too. The Eumig seems to be a better projector than a Sankyo all around so I'll find one on ebay.
@nevetstdlob - Don't know about Duralene or the other.I bought a transfer box with a ground glass screen & there was a problem with grain & hotspot.Then I tried projecting on to a 12" * 9" sheet of opaque material, the grain was not as bad,but the hotspot was very noticeable- bright in the middle but dark at the corners. Cannot see how you can get around the hotspot - if you use a difuser it might not project? The Eumig bulb may be OK without a dimmer. BEST OF LUCK. Let me know if it works.
@mickthebl I got a Eumig S 910 for a good price. I think this model is variable between 18-24 fps. I found a 5 watt 12 volt LED that may work for doing telecine. It's supposed to be equivalent to a 50 watt halogen lamp. It's my understanding that it's the heat from the lamp that causes hot spot so I'll see if a high-powered LED will help.
This lamp can't be used with a dimmer which is the one drawback. Also, I still don't understand the purpose of the big lens in the transfer box.
@nevetstdlob. I had one of those a few years ago, or at least the Bolex equivalent. It does have variable speed control, but not sure if it is mechanical or a variable resistance. They are a good projectors with the advantage of a 600 ft spool. You may have a bit of a problem if you want to widen the gate. Mine was S8 only unfortunately.
There are many lamps which fit this projector from 10 watts upwards & if you wired them on a separate circuit you could incorporate a dimmer.
@mickthebl The Duralene/Hurculene I mentioned earlier is very interesting material. It's very thin and has the finest grain possible. It's also cheap. It would be a snap to make a frame and staple some to it. I'd like to see a side by side comparison to the big convex lens. It's actually drafting film, simmilar to tracking paper.
@nevetstdlob. It sounds very much like the material I used but better. - mine was grainy.The reason I projected so large ( 12" * 9" ) was to attempt reduce the grain & the hotspot. I think it did reduce it a bit. You cannot notice it with your eye but the camcorder will pick it up.You can try doing it with lights on in the room which might help. The lamp in the projector might work as it is.
The condenser lens is a large magnifyer so that you can focus the camcorder on the frame in the gate?
@nevetstdlob The lens produces an aerial image, with this & the projector lens, you can zoom in the camcorder to the frame in the projector gate. see-"Moviestuff"-Cinemate-how it works", for more information.
The Eumig speed range is 18-24 - you require 20fps in the USA .
Mechanical drive is better than belts- Cinemate has a control for adjusting the speed to eliminate flicker when transferring - it is belt driven. I set my EUMIG in 2004 to 16.66fps & have not had to touch since. 150+ hrs use
Great job!! I am amazed at the quality of the image projected!! All of the other systems using a condenser lens to capture the image required precise alignment of the eye and condenser lens to even see the image!! Your video shows a clear image on the lens I am assuming from an angle as you videoed the set up of your system!! Is this correct??
@dell1932 Thanks for the compliment. Yes,the camcorder recorded the set up & transfer in one operation. I should have have zoomed out at the end of the film to make it more apparent. The camcorder faces the lens & the mirror turns the image 90 degrees to the projector. I have a friend who bought the similar pro system & understand it is very difficult to set up with a tripod.
The secret is to centre the image on the lens & position the cam lens with the proj beam. Then the rest is very simple.
Well done - and fascinating '65 footage. I never had much success with an aerial image system so ended up with stop frame - I guess I didn't get the right condenser lens. I'm amazed the old Eumig will keep to speed accurately enough without sync.
@rwbuswell- Glad you liked it. As a matter of interest all the men on the film are " Skemmers " from the old town, of course. - your " neck of the woods"?
I had the projector fully serviced by John White down in London, & he told me how to adjust it to 16.66fps. Before that, I tried it with a dimmer switch which was not very sucessful. A 5 inch magniying glass might work as a condensing lens? I was lucky, buying mine before Moviestuff realised it was not a good idea to sell them separately.
@mickthebl Where was the footage shot? I saw Warrington and Irlam on the plant. I'm not a native Skemmer being an ex-pat Geordie - but here since '81 !
@rwbuswell - It was shot at a new Manchester Corporation overspill site at Partington. The 60s type building in the background is Broadoak Comprehensive School. Brews had a lot of men from Skelmersdale working for them, as I believe, there was a lot of unemployment in the area due to local industry closing. This, of course, was before the New Town was built.
@mickthebl Can you tell me how to adjust speed to 16.66fps or to Just Single frame by frame. i have Chinon with only 18 and 24fps... and our system here is PAL...
@meeramy . I have no idea how to adjust the speed on a Chinon projector. You could try inserting a light dimmer switch on the mains lead which may work. If in the UK, you could contact John White Projector Repairs, to see if he could do it for you. You may have to give up on the Chinon & see what is available on Ebay- any with the slide speed control will be suitable. The 600 series will run at 3 & 6 fps & would be suitable for single frame, but some form of trigger mechanism would be required.
@mickthebl chinon has two speed pots on the circuit board near the front. ( just remove the front cover)1 adjusts the speed from 18fps and the other adjusts the projector speed when set to 24 frames. just use a plastic screwdriver, a steel one will screw up the speed when its touching the dimmer pot as it has a weak meginetic field that interfers when so close to the circuit board, hope that helps
Great tutorial. I assume the white paper is removed from condenser lens before running film, correct? Also, I thought that to remove flicker, one sped up the projector, not slowed it down. Pls clarify. Thanks.
@ozartdotus Yes, certainly the white paper is removed before running the film - see when the camcorder zooms in to the lens, or the picture next to the caption which is taken as the camcorder zooms in.
For PAL systems the projector has to run at 16.66 fps with 1 50th sec exposure.
For NTSC? speed is 20 fps with 1 60th second exposure.
So over there in the USA you will have to speed up your projector from 18 fps to 20 fps to avoid flicker.
@pollyboy12 Would not like to say as I have not had any of my films transferred professionally. There are plenty of examples on here, some better , some worse. It is difficult to tell as it depends on the quality of the original film. However see Strontian90 below.
I am impressed with the quality of your transfers... excellent work congratulations.
I also enjoyed watching the film very much....the machines those guys were using on site were fantastic. I particularly noticed the cable driven 'shovel'...amazing really when you think these days most plant is hydraulically operated. Great...loved it.
@mickthebl You got great result with the transfer, I modified my Eumig Mark 8 but could not get the result you got.
I could not get the gate in focus just a round section in the middle of the film. No matter how close I got to the lens it would not focus on the area of the gate.Also when I stripped the lamp holder out the image was upside down. must be doing something wrong but can't work it out.
@somerton123 . Focus the image with a piece of paper over the condensor lens.Remove the film & project the beam through the mirror & lens onto a piece of paper & where it forms the most distinct circle that is the approx position for the cancorder-between 2 & 3 feet from the lens. If you still cannot get a full image it is because-A lamp far too bright, B condensor lens is not suitable, or C insufficient zoom on camcorder. See other comments below re lamp & condensor lens.
@mickthebl Thanks for the reply and advice. The lens I tried is a 3x magnifying glass which may be the problem. I took the lens out of the slide projector (3"dia )but the two lenses have a flat surface on one side (does a condenser lens have a flat surface on one side?) The cannon has a 41x zoom and there is no flicker at all when I film the projected image on the wall at 1/50 th sec with the eumig at 14, this part is a success at least.
@somerton123 . Condenser lenses come in combinations of plano ( straight) convex & concave-you need a double convex.Try putting the 2 lenses back to back , but it will be probably be too much magnification.You need a 4 or 5 inch magnifying glass with a 1.50 -2.0 magnification- that should do it.
If all else fails,try projecting on to a piece of tracing paper with the camcorder behind ( See nevetstdlob comments below) You will still need the mirror to laterally invert the image.
@mickthebl I have tried all types of lenses and still can't get a full view on the gate just a small circle in the middle. What is your lens on the projecter? Mine is 1.4 15-25, I could have a lens that is not suitable on the projector for this method. My eumig is a Mark 8.
@somerton123 . My lens is f1.2 12.5-25mm but yours should be OK.
Assuming your mirror/condenser assembly is similar to mine - take out the condenser lens & stick a piece of tracing over the opening. Zoom & focus the projector until you get a clear sharp image of the frame on the paper.If you can do this the projector lens is OK. Focus the camcorder on the image. Replace the condenser lens- if it does not work now, the condenser lens is not suitable. Don't forget to dim the lamp!!!!
@mickthebl I tried a new lens better quality magnifying glass and it works great. I have a 10w reflector bulb on a power supply and it works, I can't beleive it. Thanks so much for your help and patience. Fantastic!
@somerton123 . When the film is in the gate, as long as the shiny side is facing the lamp & the dull side facing the projector lens , when PROJECTED, the image will be the right way up.
Very good - clear & concise, excellent quality transfer, comparable to the professional ones seen on here . One question - if the projector is not running accurately at 18fps, how do you adjust to 16.66fps?
@strontian90 - Simply adjust the speed control until the flicker stops. These projectors are very good as they are shaft & gear driven with no belts.I adjusted mine to 16.66fps six years ago & have not had to adjust it again since. It is also not necessary to warm it up first as it consistantly runs at the required speed.
Looks like a great job for a cheap equipment!
And I'm a perfectionist
TommyGP72 3 weeks ago
@TommyGP72 Thanks!!
mickthebl 3 weeks ago
GOLD !!! I am currently going to go down this road. Not for myself, but father in law and his friends. $30 per reel doesnt sound like much. but when you have 50 reels, a DIY telecine is the answer.
ynnebbenny 2 months ago
@ynnebbenny . That's how I started, with about 30No. 600ft reels it would have cost a fortune. Though after 6 years, I still have 5 to go, due to also replacing the sound tracks.If you read the comments below you should be able to pick some tips, but if you have any problems, just ask. BEST OF LUCK.
mickthebl 2 months ago
I cannot count how many times I have watched this footage and it never fails to made me think back on those years with fondness.Thanks for the memories!
ronharveyII 2 months ago
Can any body tell me how to adjust Projecter Speed to low or to Single frame... Meera
meeramy 2 months ago
impressive! But how did you reduce the flicker so well??? I´m planing of doing this myself:)
triceramovieboy 4 months ago
@triceramovieboy . For PAL systems you must set the projector speed to 16.66 frames per second & the camcorder exposure to 1/50th second & there will be no flicker. The video shows you how to do it.
mickthebl 4 months ago
@mickthebl You've done a great transfer hat off to you! By the way what sort of Canon Camcorder is it? I have set up your exact system good transfer but resolution is not as good as yours but then im camcorder isn't as good as yours by the looks of it? I presume it's digital?
Cheers J
whatthebutlersaw01 3 months ago
@whatthebutlersaw01 It is a standard definition, 3CCD,Canon XM2.digital video camcorder. Originally I used a digital Canon MVX150i until it it broke & I replaced it with the 3CCD model.Although the definition is slightly better with the 3CCD one, the original produced excellent results. If you use a High Definition camcorder you would get even better results than mine, but you have the problem of aspect ratio, as they all seem to be in widescreen format, some form of masking would be required.
mickthebl 3 months ago
Remarkably the best quality 8mm to video transfer I have seen, Together with a full and clear explanation of how to achieve such results. My only criticism of the transfer is the rare whiteouts, particularly in areas of sky. Maybe locking the exposure at the start when setting white balance could eliminate these, but it could make things worse, depending on the exposure mix in the original footage. Your video has both instructed and encouraged me. And that music, its just so evocative.
VideoClapper 6 months ago
@VideoClapper . Glad that you found it interesting. I think that the whiteouts are down to Utube. I have just had a look at the original on the DVD player. There are no whiteouts & you can clearly see the shape of the white clouds against a very pale blue sky, you can even see white smoke rising from a chimney in the distance, which cannot be seen on Utube. The exposure has to be locked at 1/50th second for the transfer but the aperture is automatic. Overall the quality of the DVD is superior.
mickthebl 6 months ago
What is the advantage of using a lens in the external box over using a flat piece of ground glass?
TheOzphotoman 6 months ago
@TheOzphotoman The condenser lens acts as a large magnifying glass which allows the camcorder to capture the image of the film in the projector gate. If you use a ground glass screen you will have a problem with grain though this can be reduced by using the largest possible screen, you may also have a problem with a hotspot & contrast. One of the posters below recommends tracing paper which gave him acceptable results.
mickthebl 6 months ago
Comment removed
TheOzphotoman 6 months ago
Interesting. I am about to embark on a similar project, however I am using a digital still camera with video capability to record direct to AVI. I have done initial tests to see how much flicker I got by just videoing directly off a screen and it worked very well, but with flicker.
TheOzphotoman 8 months ago
@TheOzphotoman
I am in Australia and have a Mark S Eumig 807D (had it since new). The cameras I have to use are either 29.97 fps or 24 fps. Initial experiments produce flicker. Do I still set the Eumig to 16.66 and 50Hz, or 60Hz? I have s/w (handbrake) that wil convert to lower frame rates if necessary.
TheOzphotoman 8 months ago
Comment removed
TheOzphotoman 8 months ago
@TheOzphotoman - In the UK the power is 50ccs ( Dont know about Oz) & by setting the flag at 60ccs it alters the speed range ( mechanically ) from 18-24 to 14-20fps.
Try adjusting the projector speed with your s/w ( whatever that is ) until the flicker stops. Alternately you could try inserting a dimmer switch on the projector lead - BE CAREFUL NOT TO DAMAGE THE MOTOR!!!!
mickthebl 8 months ago
@TheOzphotoman- For flicker free PAL transfers the projector must run at 16.66fps with a standard camcorder running at 25fps set to an exposure of 1/50th sec.The problem could be that your camera is running at 24fps & may not have an exposure setting of 1/50th sec.
mickthebl 8 months ago
@mickthebl
Thanks, I was not sure how the 50/60Hz came into play. In Oz it is 50, so that will be OK. I'll need to check the shutter speed. I do have a dimmer device, actually a drill spped controlle I made myself, so that will work if required.
TheOzphotoman 8 months ago
@TheOzphotoman . That,s fine, with the flag set at 50ccs, & the slide set at 18fps, time a short film, calculate the time at 16.66fps, reset the flag at 60ccs, & adjust the slide so that the film plays at the required time. It will now be set at 16.66fps - all as shown in the video.
mickthebl 8 months ago
Nope sorry man im sticking to my original statement 'in that you are the genius' on this one..Ok so Roger aligned a condenser lens with a mirror, I think we may all have tried mirrors and lenses in the quest of doing 8mm transfers but suffered
flare\hot spots \and flicker!.. Its your mod's to the Eumig that win the day & also what a great Video you have made to illustrate your project (excellent) So i hope your are blushing--Its the winning colour.. (Well done)
ducter2001 10 months ago
Well done..Thats pure genius man how u got such a 'flicker' free image -and so sharp off a Standard 8 print.. I have been looking at some Telecine transfer
machines costing around £2000 and the results are nothing like what you are
getting off that old Eumig.. I know most of the good transfer quality is due to the condenser lens but in the end the projector and the mod's are what give the
final result, and your final result is 'surperb' and i have totally enjoyed looking at that 8mm film..
ducter2001 10 months ago
@ducter2001 Thanks for the compliment-you almost made me blush.Roger Evans? of Moviestuff is the genius, I just copied his Cinemate & fiddled about with the projector until it worked.Also I only used the best shots of the 8mm film,if I had used the poor ones, you probably would have a different opinion.How you upload it to Utube makes a difference I believe-I used an AVI file & it took 13 hours- (don't know how else to do it)This may have something to do with the quality but original is better.
mickthebl 10 months ago
Wow, fantastic work. I want to build a home telecine machine for 16mm. Hmmm. It all feels a bit daunting! But maybe I'll figure something out! :)
muzboz 11 months ago
@muzboz Providing you can find the right projector,lens & mirror, you should not have a problem. The projector needs to be slowed down to 16.66fps & I think it must have a 3 bladed shutter. You will also need an editing programme to speed the transfer back to 24fps. Have a look at the " Moviestuff" website, they have 16mm units which run at 16.66 & 25fps. The 16.66 fps will have a three bladed shutter & requires a camcorder exposure of1/50sec for PAL.Don't know about the shutter on 25fps unit.
mickthebl 11 months ago
@mickthebl How do you ensure that it's running at 16.6 fps? Do you need a special projector to allow for this?
muzboz 11 months ago
@muzboz. Before I found out how to mechanically adjust my projector I used a dimmer switch on the main lead which was not very successful.To check that you have the correct speed, project on to a screen,film the image with a camcorder & adjust the projector until the flicker stops. See " kodak(elmo) 16mm 5-BLADE ( NO FLICKER) FILM TRANSFER - pizzaguy 2002" His projector speed will be different than yours as you are on the PAL system. Set the camcorder at 1/50 sec & adjust the projector to suit.
mickthebl 11 months ago
@mickthebl Hi I came across this tut as I am about to transfer some old cine films of mine - I am 70! Can you tell me the focal length of the lens as I am getting no image at all on it. Thanks pl help. The proj I'm using is Bolex 18-5
hmarillejla7 11 months ago
@hmarillejla7 . Sorry but I do not know the focal length of the condenser lens.It is 5 inch double convex, 3mm thick at the edge/rim & 15mm o/a in the centre.I think it is 3 dioptres. I believe if you use a standard magnifying glass with a 1.50 - 2.0 magnification this will work. See other comments below. Make sure that your lamp is not too powerful - if you can look into the projector lens & see the film frame in the gate clearly without hurting your eye, that is all the illumination you need
mickthebl 11 months ago
@mickthebl Tks. That was the hitch...the lamp was way too bright. It was swamping the pix.
hmarillejla7 11 months ago
Amazing! I just did a quick test with a recently recorded ektachrome 64T, a shaving mirror and a 3" magnifying glass, and the results were stunning, Never saw the film that sharp. I think next week I will try to buy a larger magnifiyning glass (5") and make some kind of box with a rectangular mirror in it, I'd hope it will work :)
Actually I've replaced the 100W spot by a 2700k LED lamp, which works quite well for telecine, and there is no hot spot anymore (because of the separate leds)
ginkelvanmichiel 1 year ago
@ginkelvanmichiel . Well done! If you manage to find a 5 inch magnifying glass, I believe it needs to have a magnification of 1.5 - 2.0. If you do get a hotspot, you could probably insert a glass diffuser between the LEDs & gate. I have accurately remeasured my lens & it is 5" dia, 3.0mm thick at the edge/rim, & 15mm o/a in the middle. It is double convex.
When you are sucessful, I would be very interested to see it, so please add it to your site.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl
I'ts allmost a year ago, but, at last I've uploaded a super8 movie through the same sort of telecine. And it works superb :) I will add it as a video-reply. :)
ginkelvanmichiel 3 weeks ago
@ginkelvanmichiel Well done, it's very good, though cannot understand the description.
mickthebl 3 weeks ago
@mickthebl
the description tells this:
"Sound has been synchronised later."
Camera: Kodak Instamatic M4, film Kodachrome K40
DIY telecine with a mirror, a large magifiying glass and a Canon DV-camera,
used in the 16:9-mode. Gate of the projector has been wided.
Leader is a screen frame-by-frame record. (original probably. 16mm)
Film leader is frame-by-frame opgenomen vanaf een computerbeeldscherm (vermoedelijk een 16mm leader?)
ginkelvanmichiel 3 weeks ago
@ginkelvanmichiel How are you powering the led? I just got a 12V MR16 led. I'm scared to connect it to the 12V from the projector cause I'm not sure about the amps and what will happen. How many elements does your led have?
pianoart2 1 year ago
@pianoart2
I've used a non-dimmable 12v MR16. Before mounting it I've measured the out going amps and compared it with the data sheet of the spot, which actually has 21 LEDs in it. Subsequently I've connected the led to the projector and turned it on, and as said, for Telecine it works superb, because there are multiple light sources instead of one central source. You can't use it as a real projector, just because the wattage of the LED is a lot less than the original 100W halogen spot.
ginkelvanmichiel 1 year ago
@ginkelvanmichiel I'll give that a try. The led I have has a single element. These led's are getting very powerful. I've been following this thread for a while as "nevetstdlob" but google messed up my accounts. I got my Eumig running OK and I just received a first suface mirror for the box I'll make.
pianoart2 1 year ago
Nice job! Can you tell me about your condenser lens? is it flat on one side (Plano- convex) or convex on both sides. I know it is 5 inches in diameter . If it is flat on one side witch side is facing the camcorder. I have a bunch of 8mm films to transfer and your video inspired me to do it your way it looks great, My and i also enjoyed you music selection. you made a nice help full video. thank you
jimerd1 1 year ago
@jimerd1 . Thanks for the compliment. The condenser lens is double convex - convex both sides. It is 5 inches in diameter, 3/16 thick at the edge & 7/16 in the middle. I think it is 3 dioptres. I read an article where a 4 inch magnifying glass with a magnification of 1.5 - 2.0 had been sucessfully used for this purpose. I tried it with a 3 1/2 inch lens lens but was unsucessful due the lens being too powerful. An optical supplier should be able to advise you.
mickthebl 1 year ago
Excellent !!!
alybal 1 year ago
@alybal Thanks!!
mickthebl 1 year ago
Thanks mickthebl. My Sankyo doesn't hold 20 fps very well so I'm going to try a setup like you have with a couple mods. I'm going to make a transfer box and use Duralene or Herculean drafting film instead of the lens. I like the look it gives. A first surface mirror is easy to find. I'll see if i can use a battery powered light source with a dimmer too. The Eumig seems to be a better projector than a Sankyo all around so I'll find one on ebay.
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob - Don't know about Duralene or the other.I bought a transfer box with a ground glass screen & there was a problem with grain & hotspot.Then I tried projecting on to a 12" * 9" sheet of opaque material, the grain was not as bad,but the hotspot was very noticeable- bright in the middle but dark at the corners. Cannot see how you can get around the hotspot - if you use a difuser it might not project? The Eumig bulb may be OK without a dimmer. BEST OF LUCK. Let me know if it works.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob The Eumig 610 does not have variable speeds. Go for the 700 or 800 series as they both do.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl I got a Eumig S 910 for a good price. I think this model is variable between 18-24 fps. I found a 5 watt 12 volt LED that may work for doing telecine. It's supposed to be equivalent to a 50 watt halogen lamp. It's my understanding that it's the heat from the lamp that causes hot spot so I'll see if a high-powered LED will help.
This lamp can't be used with a dimmer which is the one drawback. Also, I still don't understand the purpose of the big lens in the transfer box.
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob. I had one of those a few years ago, or at least the Bolex equivalent. It does have variable speed control, but not sure if it is mechanical or a variable resistance. They are a good projectors with the advantage of a 600 ft spool. You may have a bit of a problem if you want to widen the gate. Mine was S8 only unfortunately.
There are many lamps which fit this projector from 10 watts upwards & if you wired them on a separate circuit you could incorporate a dimmer.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl The Duralene/Hurculene I mentioned earlier is very interesting material. It's very thin and has the finest grain possible. It's also cheap. It would be a snap to make a frame and staple some to it. I'd like to see a side by side comparison to the big convex lens. It's actually drafting film, simmilar to tracking paper.
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob. It sounds very much like the material I used but better. - mine was grainy.The reason I projected so large ( 12" * 9" ) was to attempt reduce the grain & the hotspot. I think it did reduce it a bit. You cannot notice it with your eye but the camcorder will pick it up.You can try doing it with lights on in the room which might help. The lamp in the projector might work as it is.
The condenser lens is a large magnifyer so that you can focus the camcorder on the frame in the gate?
mickthebl 1 year ago
I have a couple other questions..
What is the purpose of the big lens?
Are these particular Eumigs variable speed between 18-24 fps?
I'd like to try a Eumig instead of my Sankyo dualux 2000. I assume the Eumig would hold it's speed better because of the drive mechanism.
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob The lens produces an aerial image, with this & the projector lens, you can zoom in the camcorder to the frame in the projector gate. see-"Moviestuff"-Cinemate-how it works", for more information.
The Eumig speed range is 18-24 - you require 20fps in the USA .
Mechanical drive is better than belts- Cinemate has a control for adjusting the speed to eliminate flicker when transferring - it is belt driven. I set my EUMIG in 2004 to 16.66fps & have not had to touch since. 150+ hrs use
mickthebl 1 year ago
What do you mean" Open back of projector and set flag at 50C/S"?
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob See the still photo after the instruction. It can be set at 60c/s or 50Hz by turning the lever.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl Ah, missed that at first, thanks. This is very impressive.
nevetstdlob 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob Thanks, but it should be 60c/s not 50 - my mistake.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@nevetstdlob Should be 60c/s not 50c/s - see below
mickthebl 1 year ago
Great job!! I am amazed at the quality of the image projected!! All of the other systems using a condenser lens to capture the image required precise alignment of the eye and condenser lens to even see the image!! Your video shows a clear image on the lens I am assuming from an angle as you videoed the set up of your system!! Is this correct??
dell1932@yahoo.com
dell1932 1 year ago
@dell1932 Thanks for the compliment. Yes,the camcorder recorded the set up & transfer in one operation. I should have have zoomed out at the end of the film to make it more apparent. The camcorder faces the lens & the mirror turns the image 90 degrees to the projector. I have a friend who bought the similar pro system & understand it is very difficult to set up with a tripod.
The secret is to centre the image on the lens & position the cam lens with the proj beam. Then the rest is very simple.
mickthebl 1 year ago
Well done - and fascinating '65 footage. I never had much success with an aerial image system so ended up with stop frame - I guess I didn't get the right condenser lens. I'm amazed the old Eumig will keep to speed accurately enough without sync.
rwbuswell 1 year ago
@rwbuswell- Glad you liked it. As a matter of interest all the men on the film are " Skemmers " from the old town, of course. - your " neck of the woods"?
I had the projector fully serviced by John White down in London, & he told me how to adjust it to 16.66fps. Before that, I tried it with a dimmer switch which was not very sucessful. A 5 inch magniying glass might work as a condensing lens? I was lucky, buying mine before Moviestuff realised it was not a good idea to sell them separately.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl Where was the footage shot? I saw Warrington and Irlam on the plant. I'm not a native Skemmer being an ex-pat Geordie - but here since '81 !
rwbuswell 1 year ago
@rwbuswell - It was shot at a new Manchester Corporation overspill site at Partington. The 60s type building in the background is Broadoak Comprehensive School. Brews had a lot of men from Skelmersdale working for them, as I believe, there was a lot of unemployment in the area due to local industry closing. This, of course, was before the New Town was built.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl Can you tell me how to adjust speed to 16.66fps or to Just Single frame by frame. i have Chinon with only 18 and 24fps... and our system here is PAL...
meeramy 2 months ago
@meeramy . I have no idea how to adjust the speed on a Chinon projector. You could try inserting a light dimmer switch on the mains lead which may work. If in the UK, you could contact John White Projector Repairs, to see if he could do it for you. You may have to give up on the Chinon & see what is available on Ebay- any with the slide speed control will be suitable. The 600 series will run at 3 & 6 fps & would be suitable for single frame, but some form of trigger mechanism would be required.
mickthebl 2 months ago
@mickthebl chinon has two speed pots on the circuit board near the front. ( just remove the front cover)1 adjusts the speed from 18fps and the other adjusts the projector speed when set to 24 frames. just use a plastic screwdriver, a steel one will screw up the speed when its touching the dimmer pot as it has a weak meginetic field that interfers when so close to the circuit board, hope that helps
cheers, Dave
videomanproductions 1 week ago
@videomanproductions Thanks!
mickthebl 1 week ago
@meeramy . I should have said, " Any EUMIG with a slide speed control will be suitable........"
mickthebl 2 months ago
@meeramy See comment from"Dave" above, for adjusting to 16.66fps
mickthebl 1 week ago
Great tutorial. I assume the white paper is removed from condenser lens before running film, correct? Also, I thought that to remove flicker, one sped up the projector, not slowed it down. Pls clarify. Thanks.
ozartdotus 1 year ago
@ozartdotus Yes, certainly the white paper is removed before running the film - see when the camcorder zooms in to the lens, or the picture next to the caption which is taken as the camcorder zooms in.
For PAL systems the projector has to run at 16.66 fps with 1 50th sec exposure.
For NTSC? speed is 20 fps with 1 60th second exposure.
So over there in the USA you will have to speed up your projector from 18 fps to 20 fps to avoid flicker.
mickthebl 1 year ago
how does this compare to a professional telecine? i cant find any videos or examples
pollyboy12 1 year ago
@pollyboy12 Would not like to say as I have not had any of my films transferred professionally. There are plenty of examples on here, some better , some worse. It is difficult to tell as it depends on the quality of the original film. However see Strontian90 below.
mickthebl 1 year ago
nice!
PARRAVISION 1 year ago
@PARRAVISION Thanks, glad you liked it.
mickthebl 1 year ago
I am impressed with the quality of your transfers... excellent work congratulations.
I also enjoyed watching the film very much....the machines those guys were using on site were fantastic. I particularly noticed the cable driven 'shovel'...amazing really when you think these days most plant is hydraulically operated. Great...loved it.
alybal 1 year ago
@alybal. - Thanks for the compliment & glad that you enjoyed it.
I think that the only place you would see plant like that now,would be in a museum,apart from cranes which don't seem to have changed so much.
mickthebl 1 year ago
@mickthebl You got great result with the transfer, I modified my Eumig Mark 8 but could not get the result you got.
I could not get the gate in focus just a round section in the middle of the film. No matter how close I got to the lens it would not focus on the area of the gate.Also when I stripped the lamp holder out the image was upside down. must be doing something wrong but can't work it out.
somerton123 7 months ago
@somerton123 . Focus the image with a piece of paper over the condensor lens.Remove the film & project the beam through the mirror & lens onto a piece of paper & where it forms the most distinct circle that is the approx position for the cancorder-between 2 & 3 feet from the lens. If you still cannot get a full image it is because-A lamp far too bright, B condensor lens is not suitable, or C insufficient zoom on camcorder. See other comments below re lamp & condensor lens.
mickthebl 7 months ago
@mickthebl Thanks for the reply and advice. The lens I tried is a 3x magnifying glass which may be the problem. I took the lens out of the slide projector (3"dia )but the two lenses have a flat surface on one side (does a condenser lens have a flat surface on one side?) The cannon has a 41x zoom and there is no flicker at all when I film the projected image on the wall at 1/50 th sec with the eumig at 14, this part is a success at least.
somerton123 7 months ago
@somerton123 . Condenser lenses come in combinations of plano ( straight) convex & concave-you need a double convex.Try putting the 2 lenses back to back , but it will be probably be too much magnification.You need a 4 or 5 inch magnifying glass with a 1.50 -2.0 magnification- that should do it.
If all else fails,try projecting on to a piece of tracing paper with the camcorder behind ( See nevetstdlob comments below) You will still need the mirror to laterally invert the image.
mickthebl 7 months ago
@mickthebl I have tried all types of lenses and still can't get a full view on the gate just a small circle in the middle. What is your lens on the projecter? Mine is 1.4 15-25, I could have a lens that is not suitable on the projector for this method. My eumig is a Mark 8.
somerton123 7 months ago
@somerton123 . My lens is f1.2 12.5-25mm but yours should be OK.
Assuming your mirror/condenser assembly is similar to mine - take out the condenser lens & stick a piece of tracing over the opening. Zoom & focus the projector until you get a clear sharp image of the frame on the paper.If you can do this the projector lens is OK. Focus the camcorder on the image. Replace the condenser lens- if it does not work now, the condenser lens is not suitable. Don't forget to dim the lamp!!!!
mickthebl 7 months ago
@mickthebl I tried a new lens better quality magnifying glass and it works great. I have a 10w reflector bulb on a power supply and it works, I can't beleive it. Thanks so much for your help and patience. Fantastic!
somerton123 7 months ago
@somerton123 . Glad to hear it. If you could download your results on to your site, I would most interested to see them.
mickthebl 7 months ago
@somerton123 . When the film is in the gate, as long as the shiny side is facing the lamp & the dull side facing the projector lens , when PROJECTED, the image will be the right way up.
mickthebl 7 months ago
Very good - clear & concise, excellent quality transfer, comparable to the professional ones seen on here . One question - if the projector is not running accurately at 18fps, how do you adjust to 16.66fps?
strontian90 1 year ago
@strontian90 - Simply adjust the speed control until the flicker stops. These projectors are very good as they are shaft & gear driven with no belts.I adjusted mine to 16.66fps six years ago & have not had to adjust it again since. It is also not necessary to warm it up first as it consistantly runs at the required speed.
mickthebl 1 year ago