Advanced Python or Understanding Python

[sk8erpro10]

Gaara of the func():

[DarkAAProductions]

OMG 1 hour and 15 MINS!

[HighTechPanda]

lol he said Greedo van rossum

[TheHabboHax0r]

*mind explodes*

[ThunderAppeal]

Python, java,javascript is a piece of shit language for imbeciles, the fact that google uses it proves nothing more than that a bunch of well trained monkeys can program.

With Perl at least I can perform a calculation on a string and not worry about doing a str to int conversion. Perls regexp are light years far and away ahead of any bullshit that python uses today. Python, java makes me sick.

[moveaxebx]

@ThunderAppeal

How on earth did you put Python, Java and JavaScript under the same bell?

That just shows that you know nothing about programming as a concept and theory.

You probably know just one language and now you scream about it.

[umarpazir]

python nice language.................!!!!!­!!!

[StickArenaNerdz]

I you want to learn programming, join my forum at:

shotbot(dot)tk/

Replace the (dot) with .

[voltagedrop]

"So you have a decorator that you apply to decorators or to decorator generators and ten that decorator generator decorator gets applied to whatever function you have."

Makes perfect sense.

[jillybooty]

this is like a ted talk only less cool and more informative.

[jillybooty]

is google trying to be like ted?

[CoffeeReptile]

liked... not too fast, not too slow and always interesting. Great work

[ThunderAppeal]

All executions happens in namespace, and the namespace is a dict. Wow. Just like perl. I mean *exactly* like perl.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

yup, just like perl. only readable.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice No its not. You only think it is because youve bought their little 'tag line.'

Continue droning.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

I've seen perl programs which look like someone banged there head on the keyboard. I've actually SEEN them. now you *can* violate python to make it do the same thing, I fully agree, but the language doesn't practically beg you to do it. older style perl did. the newer perl stuff doesn't but it's still not as nice as python, though I do enjoy lua for some of the similar work, but python is gaining ever more packages for my job so I fully expect it to be the way I continue on.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice You've contradicted yourself so you cant say with any sort of integrity that Python is more readable than Perl.  Perl doesnt 'practically beg you' to do anything and you've already admitted to the fact that anyone can write ugly Python code. What you've 'seen' doesnt mean anything.

We wont talk about your horrible grammar, which by itself explains why you have no idea what youre talking about.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

wonderful argument.

I point out that perl can be easily abused...you ignore that.

I point out that python can be abused as well...but usually isn't, even by newbies. You ignore this as well.

My personal experience (which, I admit is purely anecdotal and so not worth much) also doesn't count at all.

You ignore my point about packages (you could have brought up perls huge package listing but no, evidence is too hard), and finish it of with an ad hominem.

I now MUST agree =-P

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice You continue to contradict yourself and at the same time pat yourself on the back for having made a 'strong argument' that backs up your position. The only thing you just barely rise up to the occasion for is that you admit that your personal experience are highly subjective. But thats all you say that is true, everything else are talking points du jour that you've been fed and have gobbled up.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Python is a nice little language when everything already has some kind of shape or form, however in order to message that data with python to prepare it to be processed python is a nightmare.

Every little thing a module has to be imported, there has to be a regexp module imported a strings module imported.While its very nice that scope is enforced automatically in order to manipulate truly manipulate data you have to get comfortable with list comprehensions.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Even Mark Lutz admits that list comprehensions are ugly, frankly I'm quite fond of them. But again they only work when the data is nice and pretty and neat. Otherwise you have to labor under how python interprets the data and work with it in a very structured way. Additionally python does not have types, it has containers, types are an after thought. Containers take precedence over everything. Perl on the other hand was designed specifically with text processing in mind and

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice And despite what you might have led yourself to believe all of the internet is based on text processing. At the core of data processing is text processing, hence perl has types and with those types you build your own containers. So based on these observations I've made I know that python is no more readable than perl and in many cases much less so. Which leads me to conclude that perl is not unreadable, you have a hard time reading. The problem is not perl it is you.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

I was going to post a snippit from a standard module. a snippit that looks like keyboard barf. it literally looks like someone smashed there face along the number row....but i cant because it causes an error in the text handling in youtube.

i can write 'readable' code in the whitespace language, but no one would claim it's readable or understandable. The language is ugly for it.

Perl CAN be done in such a way that is clean and understandable. but it's EASY to make a cluster.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice You clearly have not actually looked at third party software written in python. You can look at Django, Satchmo, any other number of 'plug ins' to find 'ugly code'.

Again, the problem is you mistake style for substance.

A more intelligent way to judge if something is 'ugly' is to first understand what is happening underneath the code. Something you are clearly are unable to do, with python everything is a guessing game. For example whilst

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Whilst reading python code you happen across a function (ie func()) and if it isnt predefined in the code somewhere you have to hunt down its definition somewhere in the python module directory. It may be as easy as help(func) at the python prompt but you have to do is so often. Even then the python docs are crufty and crusty, too much is taken for granted. Something that python presumably was supposed to move away from when they copied elements of Perl.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice 'Its easy...' That is possibly the lamest lie to hide behind, its something I would expect from a junior in high school to come up with. You might be one, I dont know, if thats true then you should learn some more before you start yacking.

As for this statement: 'I can write 'readable code in the whitespace language, but no one would cliam it's readable or understandable.' What 'whitespace' language are you talking about? Python comes to my mind, where whitespaces 'count.'

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice But again, lets judge 'ugliness' and 'pretty' in terms of functionality. As I said before, with python, whitespaces and 'containers' reign supreme. To me that is ugly because data does not present itself in a pretty structured way. But thats the problem with computer 'scientists' today, they expect data to be pretty because they were trained in a data clinic. Where there are on surprises and data always shows up 'pre-fabbed'. Perl however takes data in and leaves the parsing up

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice And leaves the parsing format up to the programmer. Handing control back to the programmer like that is beautiful.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

Yes, it is beautiful. Just as lisps 'data is code' paradigm is wonderfully both powerful and simple in concept and structure.

It's also possible to be abused in ways that make me shudder considering how to debug/correct. Yes, it allows for wonderful nearly poetic constructs with simplicity and use.

But when I'm programming my VCR I don't want Haiku. I want plain simple English. I *really* don't want *bad* Haiku when programming my VCR.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

My complaint deals with what I have to work around and fix every day, all day long. Not with how wonderful and detailed the structural constructs I can produce with this system will be. I would rather read a badly documented but clearly coded hack that takes up ten pages and gets the job done in a slow and plodding manor, then a ten line haiku that does things with wonder and panache....but also takes me 2 hours to dig through to find the misplaced '

Noobs don't doc >.<

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice No docs may be the noobs fault, they get 40-45% of the blame, the rest of the blame falls on their managers.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

yes, of course, it's not that the language easy to make look like ascii soup, it's just the managers fault for not riding herd on noobs.

In a perfect world every programmer would be perfect and would program with perfect capability in direct binary. they would do there own optimizations in their heads and everyone would understand it plain as day.

In this world, languages should make it easy on the good programmers, by not handing chain saws to the majority monkey programmers.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Again, the problem is not language the problem is *you*. You are mixing up programming languages and documentation. I was trained by my boss to document everything I did, I had to take responsibility for all of my work. Today, 'programmers' like you snivel and whine and bitch and moan like a bunch of little babies. Programming languages dont play nearly as much of a role in 'making a programmers job easy.' as much as you imagine it does. Either someone knows the subject or they

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

"Again, the problem is not language the problem is *you*."

Yes, in the discussion on 'is the language easy to abuse' part of the equation is the language, part is the user. Very good. here is a cookie.

Is binary easier for a human being to understand then perl?

If NO then go produce your programs in binary directly. tell me how well that works for you.

If YES then you agree that language x can be more difficult for people then language Y.

Now, are there ways to asses this?

[addmoreice]

@addmoreice

If NO then you are arguing that 'more difficult' has no metric and is a meaningless term, in which case again go back to programming in binary.

If YES then you agree that there IS some metric. One such metric is to take a moderately trained programmer (define this how ever you like) and ask them to program a moderately difficult task (again however you like).

[addmoreice]

@addmoreice

Then simply ask these same groups of moderately trained programmers and ask them to modify those previous programs in whatever way you think is appropriate.

How easy is it for any of those moderately trained programmers to read the resultant code and understand it? This would seem to be a meaningful (though fuzzy) metric of ease of language understanding.

Perl bombs this test, and badly. Lots of bad perl, some good.

I use perl, I've debugged 3rd party software in it. I know it.

[addmoreice]

@addmoreice

Python doesn't do this perfectly by any means.

The 'oh it's a script and lets add some more' problem is rampant in python (and perl, and bash scripts).

But some of the many OTHER issues are far less.

Your responses are pretty much devolving into Ad Hominem and false assertions my argument is based on some reasoning.

Use the right tool for the right job. If you have to work with a lot of monkeys lean towards python. If you know YOU are doing it, use perl.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice or they dont. Your complaint keeps coming back to the fact that you are simply incapable of understanding any code that isnt your own. Perls or pythons readability have no bearing on your ability.

You've never had to wade through 3rd party software written in python, so you cant definitively say that you know what youre talking about.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

remove whitespace:

my $msg = " string ";

$msg =~ s/^\s+//;

$msg =~ s/\s+$//;

or

msg = "  string "

msg = msg.strip()

yeah. you are totally right. Perl is SO much easier to read and SO less often abused. Man I must have been confused.

You are kidding me right? Perl can and does offer you a ton of power. no doubt. But rarely does anyone NEED that power, and it's like handing chainsaws to monkeys most of the time. I want my monkey's solving problems, not causing mine.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice "NameError: name 'strip' is not defined"

Your ignorance is tedious, your abilities are mediocore.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

wtf? what version of python are you using? works fine on 2.2+

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice The version I'm using is "Youre a fucking imbecile if you have to program to remove white spaces"

This shit is tedious with you. I've already explained the drawbacks in python and they are pretty big.

[addmoreice]

Strange, you didn't address any of the core of my comments. You ignored the points I made about ease of use for both experienced and beginner programmers (providing a trade off on skills of employees), ignored my point about 3rd party issues...and then deleted a bunch of spurious ad hominem attacks. The only point you DID make I fully agreed with you on....and pointed out how it's an unusual circumstance (though a valid one).

Joust at another windmill, tell me how that goes.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Youre just repeating everything I told you earlier on. You dont even bother rereading any comments except your own.

And now youve regurgitated everything I wrote to you.

Please repeat yourself some more, I'm sure you feel proud of yourself when you do.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

I repeated the salient points of the discussion yes....and notice your contribution has been 'nuh uh' and 'your stupid!' comments? I agreed where you where right, and showed the places where you where wrong with evidence.

It's called an argument. try it some time.

[ThunderAppeal]

@addmoreice Dear Moron, you dont have any 'salient' points the only thing you brought up was how to remove white spaces using perl and python. If that is the bulk of your programming experience with both languages, which judging by the way you are stalling and ignoring everything I said *prior* to your childish little example, then you are in fact an imbecile. Since it seems that you are willing to agree with that I'm willing to call it a draw if you are.

[addmoreice]

@ThunderAppeal

ad hominem ad hominem....

I said, yes. perl is easier for parsing. i agree. but perl can look like keyboard headbang spam, python does not. perl makes it real easy for a new programmer to do a lot of damage. python less so.

[fatal510]

why is there a dog in a classroom?

[sminfosoft1]

web solution..

[MovieBoxOffice]

watching this action video non-stop!

[cipher10000]

havent tried ruby but python is great.

[GOOB3000]

one hour?!!!

[8BITperson]

can someone make a video for setting up and using py2exe please

im not sure how to use it

[jellyman159]

hes from the it crowd WOW

[ZdenekProductions]

my next hour and fifteen minutes are booked.

[runntube]

Fabulous work Thomas!

[notastoop]

Python is the greatest of the dynamically typed languages. Once you learn the details, it's easy to understand and own code that others have written. Not true in all languages. Moved over from Perl. Poor Larry Wall.

[Squad2ND]

I would rather say POOR US, if we don't get the work done! :) Python and Jython in general, has saved my ass on a numerous occasations, and it KICK ASS for class interaction prototyping! And I actually begin to love indentation! :)

[johnmair]

python is great, but ruby gives it a serious run for its money :)

[samann95014]

got scared of the mighty python after watching ... going back to my simple & humble php :)

[itsbrad212]

I love php for web programming. I use python for applications :D

[jthtx832yt]

man im taking a intro to computer programming and we use python, just basics right now though. its pretty cool to learn how to program a little bit but i dont know how the s.a.p.p.ers can just sit in front of a computer all day and write code, but then i guess they would say the same thing about me if they had to learn about resistors,inductors,diodes,cap­acitators,osciliscopes,multime­ters,functiongenerators, and had to build a multi-stage amplifier from scratch.

[FreewillTutorials]

78:00

[shadowboyg12]

have all of you watched this whole thing?

[Dtwnwldcat]

awesome video thanks!

[arqfloriddia]

i really enjoyed this. Thanks

[Oblivionflames]

(O)h (M)y (G)od the video is 75 minutes..

[balasuar]

Love how his shirt says Proud to be XS, when he's clearly XXL.

GET IN MY BELLY!

[adrianxray1]

i have a great book for the ones who want to learn python :) just pm me

[adee1q]

Can you please tell me the title of the book and the link to it if u have it.. thanks !

[lokzter14]

Ima noobie at programming! i dont know shit about it and im trying python for the first time! I watched this hole video and got about .1% of the info. PLEASE can someone help me learn!!! I want to understand how all these codes and shit work and i want to know important computer definitions!! please someone wright me!

[Testerer004]

pfff this is why this kind of videos shouldnt be uploaded to youtube. Lot of immaturity here. First of all, you wont get any help with words like shit and noob etc.. you shoulod act more mature if you want to learn programming and not like a 5 years old child. better make us the favor and abandon programming forever... and furthermore did you even read the title?? "Advanced Python" means you need to know good OOP first..

[yyttr4]

@Testerer004

Well, you see, most people don't wait till there 20 an in college to learn programming. I know most of my friends started learning C and creating games in middle school. So, I would say a lot of us are most likely extremely young.

[DizzyFoxkit]

then again, you probbably didn't have to learn yourself..

[Squad2ND]

I try to write more mature, but I will try to reply to you, in your level... "Ay dog! You ain't shit without a book bout' Python programmi' man! You dig? Need to go to da bookstore man, or down' some nice ebook shit from da Net! You will' come up to da speed in no time, dog! And understand diz video! You dig, biatch ?" :)

[johnmair]

shutup moron

[gmvsea]

I really enjoyed this. Thanks!

[bathrobeHearts]

Guido van Rossam is the man.. i like this.

[klined]

that's not guido :D

[yak2be]

Great video. Lots of useful information. Thanks.