The Shakers

[sheikowi]

She wasn't a drama-lady, or her people deluded cultists or sociopaths. We were privileged to have such a fulfilled person among us; witness that angels were sentient, dynamic, intellectual and loving.

[mtsumusic]

Americans are so lucky that we have such a diversified religious history. Everyone thinks the South is all crazy about religion (we are!) but the New England is especially crazy!

[onemarktwoyou]

The early shakers reduced in number early. They thought the act of reproduction was sinful. Thus the numbers declined quickly. Apparently not all took this to heart. I believe the Shakers name came from the same forum as did the Quakers. Getting back to humanity and the worship of G-d in its simplest form is a thing of beauty. These people should be admired for their willingness to turn their back on the worldly ways. 

[1NX9]

@onemarktwoyou

Are Shakers and Quakers still around??

[onemarktwoyou]

@1NX9

There are a hand full of shakers to my knowledge.

There are a number of Quakers around. It was a large movement in the early history of the U.S.. Their numbers fell around the early 1900's presumably because of the world wars. It is believed it was their stance of neutrality and pacifism. Also a factor of heretical members interring their 'meetings', in which they wouldn't turn anyone away. Thus large numbers left for more orthodox believing churches. In fact atheists even attend.

[1NX9]

I didnt know they still existed.

[HAZELIUXHELLOKITTY]

OK???????????

[condessarte]

May God bless the Shakers, Iám latin american and believe they were way ahead of their time they are the solution for the New World

[gcpropertymanagement]

Check out the collection by Vicky Cimprich, "Pretty Mothers Home". You will not find a better description of the time and the place through the eyes of a young girl who chooses a life among the people. Vicky lives in N Kentucky and did her research at Pleasant Hill. Her work is amazing and no one who reads it will ever forget it.

[CiaoBello21]

I came to see this video from reading Foner's history book.

[ninyae]

So, celibacy has led to the decline of the Shakers. Now if we could only convince the Neocons, the Masons, the corporate world, members of the Bohemian Grove, to adopt celibacy.

[BabyyyyEmeldaaa594]

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[BTC141]

That's a shame that Shakers weren't allowed to procreate. They should have eradicated that strand of their doctrine then the church would probably have franchises everywhere.

[merchantkc525]

Any religion that doesn't believe in reproduction is eventually bound to fade away. That's why many religions put such an emphasis on "going forth and multiplying". I supposed religions that also include kool-aid are also not bound to last long either.

[nthomas32]

@merchantkc525 Mother Ann, the founder of the Shaker religion, said that this religion would not last long, but that the foundations would last forever. She was right about that to some degree.

[sammysaywhat49]

A play was written about these people and it was performed at my school last year. Fascinating.

[TheQuietCenter]

What a beautiful voice.

[lichtbroeder]

I spent two summers living at the Sabbathday Lake Shaker community in Maine. They still accept guests. The sister is Sister Mildred Barker, now deceased. She was brought to the Shakers as a little girl and spent most of her life with them. Eventually, she became the Eldress or female head of the Maine community. Sister Mildred was - like all Shakers that I met - kind, generous, spiritual, and not without a sense of humor.

[dakotagerman1]

@lichtbroeder

Actually, my impression of her is, that: she's a dried up old prune.

And that foot-stomping and her turning to the camera to say "ugly" at 0:29 l.o.l.

[lichtbroeder]

Saying whatever pops into your head isn't a virtue, though easy to do when your anonymous or have nothing of real interest to say. I see your kind of comments all over you tube; mean spirited, pointless, and immature. Why are you even viewing this video? Mildred Barker was a living link to a remarkable part of the American experience. She'll be remembered for that and her many good qualities. Quite a contrast to your remarks, which have me l.o.l. too, but not with you dakotagerman. At you.

[dakotagerman1]

@lichtbroeder

I tuned in to the video because I enjoy the Shakers. I was just joking around. The old crone actually reminds me of "Granny" on "The Beverly Hillbillies". (She, probably, was a very nice lady, indeed.)

I would like to visit the Shakers someday (if there are any of them left, that is). However, with my acerbic witticisms I might not be too well-received.

Be it known, that: I, too, am celibate. Guess we are a vanishing breed.

[dakotagerman1]

You are right about saying whatever pops into my head isn't a virtue.

Rather than to have said she's a dried up old prune I should have said she's looks like a dried up apple doll one sees as a craft at a bazaar.

Also, she has a sour expression on her face like someone who has been sucking on a lemon or just smelled a foul odor.

[Featherprint1]

@dakotagerman1 LOL!!! that sounds funny, you must be a riot to be around with.

[dakotagerman1]

@Featherprint1

According to my mother, not usually. I'll admit, though: I have one of those minds that keeps me constantly entertained.

[TheDollhouseMuseum]

You might enjoy the complete Shaker Village in miniature at The Great American Dollhouse Museum. There's a video on YouTube-- search Dollhouse Museum.

[gettalong123]

0:29 lol!

[Supermanbdude8421]

what a sweet little lady she looks like tweeties grandma

[hollywoodartchick]

So wonderful that this Sister was archived singing a traditional hymn.

[uemciicmeu]

is this a forum for gnickk and dennis or is it a place to learn about the shaker beliefs? i'm confused...

[EbenezerIan123]

They are are very interesting sect, though certainly not mainstream Christian because of the elevation of Mother Ann.

Their music is beautiful & well documented. Following a BBC series by Paul Gambucini I bought a book & CD of Shaker songs.

They include "Simple Gifts" which is included in Aaron Copeland's ballet "Appalachian Spring" & was used by Sydney Carter for his popular hymn "Lord of the Dance."

At our tennis club open mike session this week I will be singing 3 Shaker songs.

[roxxidarebel]

are there any utube vids of the shakers dancing?

[gauchokotso]

@tbird338

Bullshit. Mankind would vanish.

[sk8rjj1]

WTF is this?

that old lady is horrible at singing xD!

[1jimcox]

Among Shakers, Mother Ann AKA "Ann the Word" is considered the second coming of Christ, the feminine Christ.

[realtuffc00kie27]

about 4. they all live at a community in sabbathday lake maine

[brightwhitelight1]

How many Shackers are left in the world today?

[bucknakee68]

The book includes characters who are members of the Shaker Church. It is a very poor depiction. The book, "Hope" is much better. I live next to the last active community of Shakers in the world (Maine).

[gdizzlesfc]

the book "a day no pigs would day" is based on shaker religion.

[jacobssandy]

the shakers raped more kids almost than the Catholic church through their history, thank god there are only 4 left.

[deydreem]

and yoou know this ... how?

[jacobssandy]

because my father was a mudder my mudder was a mudder and my brother was a shaker

[bucknakee68]

Someone needs to get their facts straight!

[Dedicednu]

I saw a special on The Shakers. Thieves were stealing some of their crops so what do they do? Plant more. Don't see things like that anymore.

Much respect for the Shaker people.

[AMILLENNIAL]

GREAT!!!

[2255661]

Fascinating! Very interesting and informative. Thank you for sharing this.

[bezmolvie]

How can they read bible and yet believe in this "quite comming" of Christ? Christ himself clearly stated: "Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other".

[kidonlyle]

MOst christians still get the bible wrong look at all the ones that speak in tongues or follow Falwell.

[varaioun]

that's not Christianity, that's moronic pseudo-religion created by charismatics. Sabbas the Sanctified, Macarius the Great, Sergius of Radonezh... those are all carriers of True Christianity... not the stupidity that has no roots and no succession.

[Gnickk]

If it says that God exists and uses the Bible, it's Christian. Shakers were Christians, Catholics are Christians, Pentecostals are Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians, Baptists are Christians. Christianity is a historical phenomenon that goes behond your sect.

[dennis789111]

Not the Jehovah's. They do not accept the divinity of Christ.

[Gnickk]

- No true Scotsman puts molasses on his porridge.

- But my uncle Angus, who is a Scotsman, puts molasses on his porridge.

- Ah, but no TRUE Scotsman puts molasses on his porridge!

Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians. They call themselves Christians, talk about Jesus, and read the Bible. That makes them Christians.

[dennis789111]

You've got molasses in your brain. Jewish people believe in the existence of Jesus too but they are also not Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept Jesus as the deity. By virtue of this fact they cannot possibly be Christian.

[Gnickk]

By virtue of your particular sect's definition of Christian. You know what JWs call you? "So-called Christian." Their particular sect has a different definition. Protestants say that Catholics aren't Christians, and Catholics say that only through the Catholic Church can souls be saved. Are Sunnis true Muslims? Or is it Shiites? I bet you'd agree with me that they're all brands of Muslim, broken up into mutually excommunicating, hateful sects. Likewise, all these other sects are Christian sects.

[dennis789111]

You've got a lot of it but not all of it. Yes, you list Catholics, Pentecosts, Shakers and Baptists and they are indeed Christians because they accept Christ as the Deity. JW's do not accept Christ that way, so by defintion they cannot be Christian. It's a cult. See ya' later alligator!

[Gnickk]

Yup, according to YOUR cult's definition. Likewise, the other cults have their own definitions, and mutually exclude each other. Notions of "true" and "false" Christians apply only to members of Christian cults. Rationally and objectively, you're all Christians no matter how much you hate each other.

[dennis789111]

No, you're wrong. It's actually simple. Just as the Jew, Hindu or Muslim cannot be labeled Christian ---- due to their belief systems, neither can the Jehovah's Witness. No one is talking about hate here but you've sure revealed your hand. You be a hater!

[Gnickk]

I'd be curious to know what I've said that betrays me as "a hater," as you say. Jews are all Jews to me, even if they call each other true and false Jews. Muslims are all Muslims to the rational observer, even if they call each other true and false Muslims. Likewise, for those outside the bubble of the Christian cult, anyone who talks about Jesus and God is a Christian. I view Christianity in exactly the same way you view other religions.

[dennis789111]

You're inconsistent in your reasoning. Gotcha!  (again)

[Gnickk]

What was that bit about "later alligator"? Do feel free to point out the inconsistencies in the meantime, rather than just claiming that they exist.

[dennis789111]

You correctly categorize Christians, Mulsims and Jews as distinct entities but you do not do so for JW's. You're mixing and matching. You need to study up on the defintition of what exactly a Christian is.

[Gnickk]

From what, the World College of Christians, which sets the definition of Christian, and determines who is allowed to call himself one? Is there a Professional College of Communists too, that defines Stalinists and Krushchevists as True Communists, but Trotskyists, Luxemburgists and Maoists as false ones? Or maybe they're all actually Communists nevertheless, but with rival definitions and ideologies?

[dennis789111]

You can be a Reformed, Conservative, or Orthdox Jew but you are still a Jew because you share the common belief that the Savior is yet to come. A Catholic will disagree with a Baptist over the Pope etc.. but they will agree that Christ was a man but also divine and He is part of the Holy Trinity consisiting of 3 "persons" in one God. That makes them Christian. The JW's do not share these critical common beliefs concerning Jesus which makes them something other than Christian. That's all.

[Gnickk]

Most members of those sects would argue that the other sects don't share "critical common beliefs" and are therefore something other than Christian. Lutherans say that Catholics are not Christians, as they are not saved by faith alone. Many Catholics would say that you are not saved if you havn't confessed to a priest and taken communion. Why are your criteria more valid that theirs? Who are you to define what a true Christian is? How is a non-Christian supposed to know or care who's "correct"?

[dennis789111]

Now I can see you're a blufer. You don't know simple facts about Lutherans and Catholics (and a few other areas too ).Although you're wrong, yet again, I do give you credit for trying. These are not MY criteria. I am in no position to say who is a true Christian. This is totally objective intellectually honest uncontestable criteria. A Christian believes Jesus is the deity and JW's do not. JW's I know (and I really know some) are fine people but they are JW's not Christians. Don't be dense.

[Gnickk]

Objective criteria? How can there be objective criteria about an extremely complex, long-lasting and variable man-made ideology? Are you making the claim that all two billion of the world's Christians are agreed on a definition of "Christian," or even that most of them are? I can go out there and get thousands and thousands of definitions, each one claiming to be objective and correct exactly like you do about yours.

Do feel free to tell me what I got wrong on salvation sola fide and by works.

[dennis789111]

You're frustrating yourself. I don't think you have the ability to comprehend what I've already made clear. I deal in facts and you just keep repeating yourself in a simplistic fashion. I'll pray for you.

[Gnickk]

Before you go, read through the comments again and make a list of times that someone says that the other has molasses on his brain, is a "blufer," doesn't know simple facts (without any reference to what those facts might be), is frustrating himself, and doesn't have the ability to comprehend what's allegedly clear. Take note of which person said all of those things. Then, make a list of times that that person backed it up with responses actually addressing the questions asked.

[dennis789111]

Yes, precisely. You've not addressed the simple facts I've laid out. You can't make an apple an orange. Game, set & match dude!

[Gnickk]

Aw, shucks I would have loved to find out what made that definition the correct one instead of the thousands of others, but I guessed I missed it when you answered that question. But I did see lots of rhetoric along the lines of "game, set, match;" later aligator; "blufing," self-contradiction; inconsistency in reasoning; "that's all;" revealing one's hand; being a hater. I guess that's the kind of reasoning my silly self should learn to use.

[dennis789111]

Well, you are a tenacious one. I will give you credit for that but you apparently never let the facts get in your way. Maybe you can join the flat earth society?

[Gnickk]

Four eyes! Check mate!*

*See? I can make oh-so-witty but premature declarations of victory without addressing the question too!

[dennis789111]

All has been addreseed ad nauseum. It's so over dude. You're just a DICK who cannot admit when he's wrong. Go ahead, please post something clever now but you're still toast. I am officially done with this little bug on my butt.

[tbird338]

Did Christ marry? Did Christ preach marriage? No. I think the Shakers got it right. They tried as best they could to live the life that Christ commanded us all to live: in celibacy, in poverty, in community and in confession. I don't see evidence of much of that in people who march around calling themselves "Christians" today.

[MsDesignDiva]

all i can say to your comment is "wow!" If you think that Christ didn't preach about marriage then you might want to read the bible, Luke 20:34. I will admit that there are a lot of verses that say not to marry but if you aren't reading them in the context of the chapter then you won't get the proper meaning from it.

[Murmuration]

The Shakers were an offshoot of the Quakers (who were in turn an offshoot of the heretical French Prophets) founded by an woman made unbalanced by her infertility. They died out because they were forbidden to procreate. Orphanages were founded as a result of the abuses they visited on street urchins in trying to recruit them in their ascetic lifestyle. Don't romanticize something just because it's quaint.

Great clip, though. Cheers for posting it.

[folkstreamer]

They didn't procreate but they outlasted all the other utopian social experiments.

[kaking211]

Your comments are your own, to be sure, and reflect a narrow and bitter view of Shakerism.

[karlakor]

Murmuration--The founder of Shakerism, Ann Lee, was not "made unbalanced by her infertility", as you say. On the contrary, she bore four children, all of whom died in infancy, and it was this experience in her life that caused her to believe that procreation was the cause of all the ills in the world. She was not infertile.

[MARK317th]

@Murmuration Guyon/Fenelon (in France), Migel (Michael) Molinos (in Spain) and George Fox (in England) all overlaping in life span yet unaware of each other are hardly the result of one woman's infertility. Guyon had children so I would presume that by "french prophets" that you are refering to none ot them.

[pizzawar]

@Murmuration What "abuses" would these be?

[GeoFaviness]

@Murmuration Mother Anne was not infertile, she bore four children who died. And, to whom are you reffering when you say "they" in "...result of the abuses they visited on street urchins"?

[ladylove1972]

This is amazing! I got a small taste of the Shakers from Ken Burns' documentary, but it was basically just an overview. I'll check out the show at the folkstreams website!

[Donegaldan]

Simple lifestyle, discipline, great wood-working skills and frugal living. Interesting people

[heituzi]

Can we get more material on this? It's fascinating!

[folkstreamer]

you can see the whole 30 minute film on folkstreams dot net. On that site there is also contextual materials, a transcription, and essay about the sisters in the movie.

[heituzi]

Thanks for the tip!

[HaoSci]

How do you record them, I wonder?

[HaoSci]

It's a dead religion, most unfortunately. They are the most diligent, inventive, peaceful religious practitioners. Yet, they only ask for a simple life and more recuits. Well, I guess most of people simply cannot resist the temptation.