Focus VP: Romney Says Mormonism is NOT a Christian Faith

[ziglet53]

I thought Mormonism was a Christian faith. Someone straighten me out.

[JScottH2]

no, its not a Christian faith. It does seem somewhat similar but it is its own religion. They do not believe in the basics of Christianity. Muslims and Orthodox Jews believe Jesus was a prophet. Mormons believe he is one of the many gods and Jesus is god of our plantet. That is totally opposite of Christianity. We are just two different relgions.

[platinumcar]

The basics we believe in my friend. We just cut out the creeds and never protested (protestant) the Catholic faith. The church was either restored or stood as it was. That leaves only two possibilities. Mormon's or Catholics. Fasting, prayer, and study will only lead to one truth and it has for millinos in the past century and a half.

[platinumcar]

Of course they are Christians. Mormon's believe that through the merits of Christ we are saved. That is through faith in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism, confirmation, and enduring to the end that we can be saved. You be the judge. Clearly Mormon's are Christians, just not protestants.

[Keruaran]

In saying this:

"We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

Joseph Smith separated his followers from Biblical Christianity forever.

Until Mormons are willing to repudiate Joesph Smith and his writings then they will not be Christians. Mormonism is not a part of Christianity because Mormonism denies the most fundamental affirmations of the Christian faith.

[HoffDesign]

Well, Mormonism is NOT Christianity. Please visit my website. Also see my video response to Mitts Dec 6th speech.

A look at the foundations of each really brings light to the matter.

Jesus Christ is sufficient.

[trueheart101]

yeah, this guy doesnt know what he is talking about.

[mpetrie]

Yes.. this guy just either misspoke or has it completely wrong. Mormons consider themselves Christians but acknowledge they are not MAINSTREAM Christians who are part of the Catholic or Protestant sects.

[Keruaran]

Mormonism denies the most fundamental affirmations of the Christian faith.

[mpetrie]

Not true... PM me and we can discuss. Mormons believe Jesus is divine and the Savior of mankind. He is the only sinless being to have ever lived in the flesh. He was born of a Virgin by the power of the Holy Spirit. Salvation only comes through Christ and his grace.

Not sure how that is any different than most Christians.

[Keruaran]

"He was born of a Virgin by the power of the Holy Spirit."

So you repudiate Mormon doctrine that teaches God the father procreated physically with Mary ? Or are you trying to mislead people ?

[mpetrie]

Show me where the LDS Church has EVER taught that God PHYSICALLY procreated with Mary. You won't find it. The Church leaders have said that Christ was begotten or conceived by God like we mortals are. This is an empty statement because that seems to contradict the official Church Doctrine that Mary was a Virgin. So, we must assume that they are teaching about an egg inside of Mary being fertilized by God. Though obviously not sexually but miraculously. Be we ALL came from eggs from a mother.

[Keruaran]

" The Church leaders have said that Christ was begotten or conceived by God like we mortals are. This is an empty statement because that seems to contradict the official Church Doctrine that Mary was a Virgin."

The contradiction between what your leaders have taught and your official doctrine is a problem for you as a Mormon, not mine.

[Keruaran]

In case you need someone to refresh your memory:

"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).

"Christ Not Begotten of Holy Ghost ...Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, 1954, 1:18).

Do you repudiate this doctrine ?

[mpetrie]

I repudiate the interpretation of it. The statement is correct when understood what he means. Christ is the only begotten Son of God... he is not the son of the Holy Ghost. He was begotten of the Father by the power of the Holy Ghost, so therefore, he was begotten of God the Father. As for Christ being "begotten... in the same way that mortal men are begotten", we can only speculate what he means since it's open to interpretation. We must look at official Church Doctrine to draw a conclusion.

[mpetrie]

Mary was a virgin. That is a fact. God did not have sex with Mary to create Jesus (as some would have others believe). But an egg in Mary's womb was miraculously fertilized. Us mortals only understand the sexual method of fertilization. But God's way are not our ways. God made Mary pregnant through the power of the Holy Spirit. How was this done? No one knows. We just know it was God that caused it to happen. It was a miracle plain and simple.

[mpetrie]

Nevertheless, Jesus was conceived through a fertilized egg and born like we all were born of a mortal mother. But the conception was not done sexually, but miraculously... but the egg was fertilized by God. We are all born this way except the means of fertilization are different. Thus, Christ was conceived as we all were (a fertilized egg in a mother) but the method of fertilization differs. God did it by the power of His Spirit, not sexual contact.

[Keruaran]

You can't say, "How was this done? No one knows", and then say, "Christ was conceived as we all were (a fertilized egg in a mother) but the method of fertilization differs", that is entirely self contradictory.

[mpetrie]

Not so... I never explained exactly how it was done. But we know how it was NOT done. It was not done through sexual contact. But how did God cause the egg in Mary to produce the Christ child? It was by the power of the Holy Ghost. That's all we know. It's a miracle birth.

[mpetrie]

Example: If I were to explain how a car was created, I could say, "Toyota made it." But we know that there's more to it than that. There are machines, workers, and manual labor that go into the creation of the car. Similarly, that's what we don't know about Christ's birth... we just know "God made Him" but don't know scientifically how it was done except it was a miracle by the Power of the Holy Ghost.

[Keruaran]

So, regardless of more word salad here, basically you're repudiating Mormon doctrine.

[Keruaran]

"to create Jesus"

Jesus is God incarnate in human flesh. He was not created but is eternal.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

[Keruaran]

"I repudiate the interpretation of it"

The statements quotes are straight forward. They do not leave wiggle room for a different interpretation.

"Christ is the only begotten Son of God... he is not the son of the Holy Ghost."

The Holy Spirit is God.

"Christ being "begotten... in the same way that mortal men are begotten", we can only speculate what he means since it's open to interpretation."

You can say "humpty dumpty sat on a wall" is open to interpretation if you like. Its word salad.

[mpetrie]

This comes from the difference in interpretation of the true nature of God. Mainstream Christianity believes that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one and the same being. Mormons believe they are one in purpose and unity but physically separate.

I'll say it again. Christ was NOT created through sexual contact. "Begotten" does not mean sexually created. It means "offspring". Christ is the ONLY man who was born in the flesh having been created in the womb of a mother by God.

[Keruaran]

The Bible does not leave the nature of God in doubt. There is only one God. Polytheism does not separate the Mormon church from "mainstream Christianity", it separates Mormonism from Christianity. Period.

"Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me" ~ Isaiah 43:10

"I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god" ~ Isaiah 44:6

[mpetrie]

Of course. God the Father is God of all. Supreme ruler. However, can you explain this if the Bible leave no doubt about the nature of God?

"And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..." - Genesis 1:26

Who was God speaking to?

In Genesis 3:5, Satan says "ye shall be as gods". Then when Eve ate of the fruit, God HIMSELF agreed with what Satan said.

"Behold, the man is become as one of US," - Genesis 3:22.

Again... who is God speaking to?

[mpetrie]

It is clear that in the vision of John in Revelations, John saw TWO beings. One being the Father in the Throne and the Son taking the sealed book from the hand of the One sitting in the throne. Clearly two distinct beings being shown here. They are one God in terms of purpose, unity, and glory, but separate beings.

"Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." - John 17:11

Obviously this is a spiritual unity, not a physical one.

[Keruaran]

Again you are twisting scripture. Your framing of scripture through the lens of Mormon teaching is a grievous error and blatantly ignores that that Bible repeatedly affirms that there is only one God. Not three gods acting as a "spiritual unity" but one God. Period.

[mpetrie]

How is that twisting scripture? It can't get ANY simpler.

"That they may be one, as we are."

So are you saying that Christ wanted his followers to mesh into one supernatural physical mass? Or was Christ referring to a spiritual unity?

I find it ironic that I have answered your questions yet you refuse to provide any explanation to my questions in return. Except you just dismiss my questions as twisting scripture when they are very legitimate questions asked by MAAAAAANY.

[Keruaran]

Why should I waste more time casting pearls before a stiff necked unrepentant scripture twisting polytheist ?

"I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior." ~ Isaiah 43:11

"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god." ~ Isa 44:6

"Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any." ~ Isa 44:8

"I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God" ~ Isa 45:4

[mpetrie]

Then you've proven to the world that God is in fact insane.

He says I am the only one and there aren't any others. But in the very beginning of the Bible, God speaks in a plural tongue.

I guess I too would create imaginary friends if I were all alone in the universe too...

You won't answer it because YOU CAN'T.

Diologues should go both ways. I answer your questions, you answer mine. Seeing that you refuse to answer any of my own questions shows who is truly stiff-necked.

[Keruaran]

This is my last response. You will not waste any more of my time.

It is not that, as you assert I can't answer your questions. Your questions have in fact been answered by the scriptures I posted. The Bible leaves no room for doubt in its emphatic affirmations on the nature of God but you do not like the answers scripture gives you.

Your response to these scriptures was to say that *I've* proven that God is insane.

You will only continue to reject scripture. There is nothing more to say.

[mpetrie]

God saying that he is alone in other parts of the Bible doesn't explain why God was speaking to other "gods" in Genesis. It simply is an internal Biblical contradiction unless you truly understand the nature of God. I understand ALL of those scriptures but it's you that's being blinded by the Trinitarian concept of the Nicene Creed of 325 A.D. that most of Christendom has accepted. This false theology of Trinitarianism is a rejection of the true God.

[Keruaran]

When you've finished trying to twist scripture to suit Mormon polytheism why don't you be honest and tell the truth.

You reject the Bible's VERY clear monotheism: there is only one God.

Weather God is triune in nature is no excuse for polytheism since the Bible NEVER teaches this.

Christianity is monotheistic.

Mormonism is polytheistic.

Because of this fundamental rejection of the clear teaching of scripture it is a grievous error to claim Mormonism is either scriptural or Christian.

[mpetrie]

I asked straightforward questions.. gues it needs repeating:

"And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness..." - Genesis 1:26

Who was God speaking to?

In Genesis 3:5, Satan says "ye shall be as gods". Then when Eve ate of the fruit, God HIMSELF agreed with what Satan said.

"Behold, the man is become as one of US," - Genesis 3:22.

Again... who is God speaking to?

[mpetrie]

And it IS essential to know if God is triune in nature. Because if God is NOT triune, then there are in fact three Gods acting together as one God. But you refute that there are three acting as one, so they must be triune in your eyes. So, that is why I am asking why God refers to "US" and "OUR" in the first three chapters of Genesis if he is the only one there. I have yet to see you explain that.

[Keruaran]

"Christ is the only begotten Son of God... he is not the son of the Holy Ghost."

The Holy Spirit is God.

"He was begotten of the Father by the power of the Holy Ghost, so therefore, he was begotten of God the Father."

This is silly and nonsensical word salad.

[artoo00]

He probably said that it is not a MAINSTREAM Christian faith. That's a comment many Mormons make.

[supernovia1st]

Hey there, I'm curious as to when Mitt said that and how he phrased it. I don't think he would never deny Christ. But I can certainly see Mitt saying that Mormonism does not stem from the Catholic church or any of its spinoffs.