I respectfully disagree, with His Eminence. The mas is the mass, is the mass. Any other kind of cultural worship can happen outside of mass with as much frequency as desired. That's really a wonderful thing. However, leave the mass alone. It's like he's talking out of both sides of his motuh.
Unfortunately, Cardinal Arinze is an ardent opponent of the Original Mass, and chief exponent of eccumenism. It just goes to show what passes for "conservative" churchmen these days!
The third secret of Fatima is being fulfilled as we speak, and many are too blind to see it!
I'm impressed with Cardinal Arinze! Clearly, he's moved by the Holy Spirit. Might he be our next pope who was described as "the man dressed in red" and whom St. Malachy dubbed "Peter the Great"? I don't know, but he sure seems to be a good candidate.
blackmalelaw, you missed the whole point of what Cardinal Arinze said. Let me recap it for you: In Europe & America, NOT PERMITTED. In Africa (where the type of "dance" is a gentle side-to-side swaying), PERMITTED. In Africa (where dancing is MORE than a gentle side-to-side swaying), NOT PERMITTED. You WILL NOT worship the Lord "as you will" in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as that is determined by the Magisterium (to whom Jesus Christ gave authority on such matters). Obey the Magisterium ...
Liturgical dance in Africa, in Melanesia, Micronesia, Polynesia, the Pacific Rim, New Guinea, Let we of the melanin WORSHIP OUR LORD INTHE MANNER IN WHICH WE WILL.
Cardinal Arinze speaks those culturally Europe and America, who should not dance. We whose ancestors kidnapped are not really of that culture. God created our legs, limbs, hands..."Let everything that hath breath, praise the Lord"...
@blackmalelaw Why can't people just dance after the mass? The duration of mass is about 90 minutes, tops, per week. Why can't all the other stuff be done outside of the mass? It's truly wonderful for people to incoporate their culture into the Faith, whether it be dance or song, but not during the sacramental rites of God's Church.
The more I hear this man speak, the more I begin to respect him. I especially like his clear devotion and rational approach, putting the modernists there were they belong: outside church.
I think this discussion of what liturgy should not be misses the point. Of COURSE they dance in African *celebrations* of the Eucharist. Note particularly the Coptics. Scripture talks about dance as the natural expression of human Joy for God's works... Judges 11.34 Judges 21.21-23 Matthew 11.17 Luke 15.25 1 Samuel 18.6-7 Lamentations 5.15 Psalm 30.11 Psalm 150.4 Psalm 149.3 Ecclesiastes 3.4 Jeremiah 31.4 and 13 Exodus 15.20-21 2 Samuel 6.14-23 1 Chronicles 15 and 16 PWNAGE! ;p
Your two New Testament references do not reference dance in a liturgical context; one is a quote from the Old Testament and the other is in the context of the parable of the Prodigal Son.
Yes, there are many ways we can express our joy at the goodness of God, and we should! A man can rejoice in the greatness of God when he is with his wife. However, not all of these expressions of joy are appropriate for liturgies.
The Cardinal's take on these matters are right on. Yet, there is so much disobedience in these same matters committed by musicians, so-called liturgists (in the blogosphere we call them "liturgeists"), pastors, and even bishops. I for one will not say that all of those people commit these liturgical sins. I know many that are very good on these matters. However, those not so good seem to take up the majority, sadly.
@rpgabc123 it's easy. "Haced esto en conmemoración mía". No vas a misa, entonces desobedeces a Jesús; no eres de Cristo. "Nadie va al Padre sino es por mí". Además bailar durante la misa no va de acuerdo a lo que se conmemora en la última cena: El sacrificio sin mancha. ¿A caso El Padre sacrificó a su hijo por diversión?
In the Latin Rite of the Mass or in any Rites of the Mass, liturgical dance is not proper, remember why we have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the first place, do not follow in to this modernist novelty!
I think his argument about the different cultural meaning of dance in the various cultures is a bit weak. In my Congregation in Toronto we have a fair number of Christians from Africa and the Caribbean--so does that mean dance is okay for us? -t
I cannot agree more with His Eminence. Listen again to 2nd question. NO DANCING is involved even in Africa, just a gracious movement. The Mistery of the Sacrifice that we live in Mass does not contemplate that. I'll quote the Cardinal when he says "The people discussing Liturgical Dance should spend that time saying the Rosary" OWNED!! :p
so true
benbirdy 1 year ago
I respectfully disagree, with His Eminence. The mas is the mass, is the mass. Any other kind of cultural worship can happen outside of mass with as much frequency as desired. That's really a wonderful thing. However, leave the mass alone. It's like he's talking out of both sides of his motuh.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago 2
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True, there are many forms of dance that are NOT appropriate, but God commands us to dance as a form of worship!
"Let them praise His name with DANCING..." Psalm 149:3
"Praise Him with the tambourine and DANCING..."
Psalm 150:4
Dance is mentioned several times throughout the bible as a form of Celebratory Praise.
King David (a man after God's own heart) "DANCED before the Lord WITH ALL HIS MIGHT"
2 Sam 6:14
What an incredible picture of true, limitless, vulnerability before our God.
Dans4Him 2 years ago
Unfortunately, Cardinal Arinze is an ardent opponent of the Original Mass, and chief exponent of eccumenism. It just goes to show what passes for "conservative" churchmen these days!
The third secret of Fatima is being fulfilled as we speak, and many are too blind to see it!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
@iotaunam1 I have a conspiracy theory for your conspiracy theory and the guy down the street has one opposing mine.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86
Very good, but I did not put foward a theory, just a fact: a blindingly obvious and demonstrable one.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
@iotaunam1 Whatever.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 - Yes you just believe what suits you and ignore everthing else.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
@iotaunam1
LoL, the 'Original' Mass is the Last Supper! The Tridentine Mass isn't quite that old ;).
7SonsofFeanor 1 year ago
@7SonsofFeanor
You clearly have no clue about Catholic theology.
iotaunam1 1 year ago
I'm impressed with Cardinal Arinze! Clearly, he's moved by the Holy Spirit. Might he be our next pope who was described as "the man dressed in red" and whom St. Malachy dubbed "Peter the Great"? I don't know, but he sure seems to be a good candidate.
chauffeurkp 3 years ago
blackmalelaw, you missed the whole point of what Cardinal Arinze said. Let me recap it for you: In Europe & America, NOT PERMITTED. In Africa (where the type of "dance" is a gentle side-to-side swaying), PERMITTED. In Africa (where dancing is MORE than a gentle side-to-side swaying), NOT PERMITTED. You WILL NOT worship the Lord "as you will" in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as that is determined by the Magisterium (to whom Jesus Christ gave authority on such matters). Obey the Magisterium ...
ChristianFirefighter 3 years ago
Europeans must follow their worship manner...
Liturgical dance in Africa, in Melanesia, Micronesia, Polynesia, the Pacific Rim, New Guinea, Let we of the melanin WORSHIP OUR LORD INTHE MANNER IN WHICH WE WILL.
Cardinal Arinze speaks those culturally Europe and America, who should not dance. We whose ancestors kidnapped are not really of that culture. God created our legs, limbs, hands..."Let everything that hath breath, praise the Lord"...
Blackmalelaw
Black Saints, Mystics, Holy Folk
blackmalelaw 3 years ago
@blackmalelaw Why can't people just dance after the mass? The duration of mass is about 90 minutes, tops, per week. Why can't all the other stuff be done outside of the mass? It's truly wonderful for people to incoporate their culture into the Faith, whether it be dance or song, but not during the sacramental rites of God's Church.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
thank you for good advice which our hearts already tell us is wrong. let dances be kept to parish halls. let us worship God without distractions.
conrod001 3 years ago
Cardinal Arinze is the man!
if i were to become a priest, i would want to follow in his preaching style, mentality, and theology.
xdeep0 3 years ago
The more I hear this man speak, the more I begin to respect him. I especially like his clear devotion and rational approach, putting the modernists there were they belong: outside church.
Eskadron22 3 years ago 4
MessiahChurch 3 years ago
Your two New Testament references do not reference dance in a liturgical context; one is a quote from the Old Testament and the other is in the context of the parable of the Prodigal Son.
Yes, there are many ways we can express our joy at the goodness of God, and we should! A man can rejoice in the greatness of God when he is with his wife. However, not all of these expressions of joy are appropriate for liturgies.
mjb99na 3 years ago
but not during the Holy Mass
istotatora 2 years ago
The Cardinal's take on these matters are right on. Yet, there is so much disobedience in these same matters committed by musicians, so-called liturgists (in the blogosphere we call them "liturgeists"), pastors, and even bishops. I for one will not say that all of those people commit these liturgical sins. I know many that are very good on these matters. However, those not so good seem to take up the majority, sadly.
BMP
christusvincit 4 years ago
Remember why we go to Mass in the first place
rpgabc123 4 years ago 13
@rpgabc123 it's easy. "Haced esto en conmemoración mía". No vas a misa, entonces desobedeces a Jesús; no eres de Cristo. "Nadie va al Padre sino es por mí". Además bailar durante la misa no va de acuerdo a lo que se conmemora en la última cena: El sacrificio sin mancha. ¿A caso El Padre sacrificó a su hijo por diversión?
nerdvio 1 month ago
In the Latin Rite of the Mass or in any Rites of the Mass, liturgical dance is not proper, remember why we have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the first place, do not follow in to this modernist novelty!
rpgabc123 4 years ago 12
I think his argument about the different cultural meaning of dance in the various cultures is a bit weak. In my Congregation in Toronto we have a fair number of Christians from Africa and the Caribbean--so does that mean dance is okay for us? -t
MessiahChurch 4 years ago
I cannot agree more with His Eminence. Listen again to 2nd question. NO DANCING is involved even in Africa, just a gracious movement. The Mistery of the Sacrifice that we live in Mass does not contemplate that. I'll quote the Cardinal when he says "The people discussing Liturgical Dance should spend that time saying the Rosary" OWNED!! :p
mikiroony 3 years ago 2