The Tenerife Air Disaster - Part 4 - Air Crash Disasters

[gaqbesgal40]

A doctor from riverside, ca was on pan am flight, Dr Johnson. He saved my life when i was a child. After numerous doctors couldnt find a cure to help me. Hemoglobin shots (goats blood) he injected into my thighs 2 x's a week,..to stimulate my non working immunity cells, I got my first fever at age 5. Without him I would have lived in a plastic bubble the rest of my life. He was on this flight to help others in poorer countries and find cures for new diseases. Truly there was an angel on pan am.

[maidmoira]

ego, that is it. i am better and deserve,always ego

[vcbenjy]

So in the end them saying another one would be one too many....well it happened 5 years later then again in Milan so WTF are you talking about Mr narrator???

[77j78j]

I had bad experiences with klm air stewardess

[TheTruthHurtsYup]

"Is there anything to be learned from the kind of impossible tragedy represented by tenerife"

Yes, when its your time its your time.

[OldFireStick]

@TheTruthHurts "When it's your time it's your time." That had NOTHING to do with it. The fact is that Van Zanten the KLM pilot was reckless and irresponsible. Despite all the other factors, if he had taken it easy instead of being so hot to trot it wouldn't have happened. Nothing to do with anyones's "time". Everything to do with one reckless and irresponsible pilot who should have known better.

[TheTruthHurtsYup]

@OldFireStick Just proved my point. All the factors came together to create the disaster. If there was no fog this wouldn't of happened either and many other single things that could've broken the chain. Basically, Van Zanten could've still been a reckless pilot and done the exact same thing and nothing would've happened if any of the other factors were changed. Hence, when its your time its your time my friend.

[magellanmax]

Democracy in the cockpit please!

[spinmonkey4401]

@pharao707 You obviously did not read my response regarding your statement about Americans. I didn't really mean what I wrote about the Ukraine. I am deeply sorry for the lives lost during that airshow. Not all Americans are what you say we are. And no, I am not a redneck. I am a grad student studying ancient Roman history.

[thewinfail1]

@ thenezz they probably used other pictures because they said in the first part that they only had one picture of both planes, ad that was when the planes were parked.

[drnickyp]

maybe we should all just stick to our bicycles :(

[spinmonkey4401]

@pharao707 Ukraine: the world's most retarded people. You're a nation of ignorant drugged out pilots (Ukraine air show crash), and after all that, you dare to criticize the Americans?!? OMG, how typical Ukrainian.

[FixedNewsChannel]

@spinmonkey4401 - You can cite one airshow crash, yet you use this as 'proof' that a whole nation is drugged up? I'm an American, and you are an embarrassment to this country.

[spinmonkey4401]

@FixedNewsChannel I wasn't serious. Look at the person I wrote to and compare my statement with his. I was just giving him his own medicine. He made outlandish remarks so I just countered with similar outlandish remarks.

[jithization]

an avoidable accident.RIP passengers who died

[coolvids1862]

dumb pilot why would you just fly a plane with 50 tonnes of fuel into another one ???????...

[Commentator732]

lol arguing over the cause... when such things happen, lick your wounds, give out your condolences, learn what you can, and put your new ideas to the test.

[njattack]

It is absolutely obvious that the fault of this crash was the arrogance of the Dutch captain. Every American should never trust any foreigner. Any.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack i only agree HALF with you. the crash was his fault, okay. but never trust foreigners?? i always trusted americans and i don't even use KLM.. i always use American Airlines, Continental Airlines.. so actually you say that only foreigners crash planes... it's only 1 crash and i'm sure americans crashed a lot too. it's only because the captain didn't want to listen...foreigners are people too. you are a perfect example of people who don't have respect for other people.

[njattack]

@ryanbogaerd Foreigners are people provided they stay in their own country. They are the enemy when in the US. I would never have a FOREIGNER piloting the aircraft.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack it's like new yorkers aren't allowed into new jersey. that's bullshit right? they are the same people from the same country. this is on a bigger scale. not people from the same country, but people from the same world.

[njattack]

@ryanbogaerd I don't think so. The US has laws. Foreigners are not welcomed. It's people of their own country, not world. Your Marxism is dead.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack how do you mean they are not welcome? have you ever heard of something called a TOURIST? i've been in the us 5 times and i'm going again next year.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack yeah! now try to find an answer for that.

[njattack]

@ryanbogaerd I'm not interested with your anti-American Marxism.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack how do you mean anti america? i LOVE the US. i love all the people there i love how americans live and all. i just HATE people who can't respect that. my grandma was half american.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack so actually i am american too.

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack so what do you think of that?

[ryanbogaerd]

@njattack now you know I actually am part american you're afraid...SOB

[RK831]

VAN ZANTEN FUCKED IT ALL UP!

[prorobo]

The landing footage at LAX is not KLAX at all.

[thenezz]

I don't know who produced this video, but with a little homework, you'll find that a lot of the images included in the video are NOT that of the Tenerife crash. Notably the shot that shows the nose of the aircraft with smoke behind. There's some B.S. here. I LOVE these types of documentaries, but someone is cashing in here. Look into it before forming any unintelligent opinions.

[carstorm85]

Who ever rated this down is a terrorist

[Tobizz3]

@carstorm85 i didnt like it, its horrible

[McLarenMercedes]

@carstorm85

I thought they love destruction and would give thumbs up.

Those rating it down were douchebags who wanted to see more deaths and bloody bodies and were disappointed by the video. You know the kind that says stuff like:"This cgi is really gay!!".

[piersremus]

I work in the industry of aviation and deal with planes all the time and speak with captains. all what is said here in this docu and after 4:29 about the VHF is true! I am sorry about this event and its a tragig thing to happen but its down to many many things that can go wrong! since I have been working its been a roller coaster in how things can go wrong in a matter of a few min. I work on an Island too and I know what it means with weather condition ect. RIP for those whose lost there lives!

[FistFullofSteel999]

cheese and no socks said it best - SLOPPY. Well thats the understatement of the year. When you go into a restauant and ask if there are any reservations open (asking for proper beacon clearance), and the guy says yes and puts your name on the list you usually go sit down and wait your turn. Do you MISTAKE that for "ok guys lets go sit down at any table we want"?? So you and your puppets promptly walk past and bypass your 'takeoff clearance'. Oooooh so such an easy mistake!!!! NOT!!!!!

[FistFullofSteel999]

hmm - the flight engineer said is that pan am off the runway???? Maybe that is because KLM did not get clearance to take off!!! Oh well the poor guy is probably better off dead. Can you imagine if pan am WAS off the runway and the engineer had to apologize to 'heir captain' for questioning him?? HO-LEE - the poor guy would be a janitor somewhere now.

[Neil85091]

I read the transscript

[Neil85091]

KLM nor the tower nheard anything that said Pan Am was off the runway

[MissKrystal1001]

@neil85091 it wasn't the KLM captian fault at all, he got comfirmation from the tower and obviously everyone thought PAN AM was off the runway. Reason why PAN AM was still on the runway when KLM took off is coz there was a problem communticating with the tower just like a mic next to a speaker. It was miss communitcation between PAN AM and the tower and the KLM had clearance

[Neil85091]

The cockpit voice recording and the weather tell enough of the story that the rest really made no difference. Pan Am was on the runway. KLM took off without confirmation that Pan Am was clear. I believe that full blame goes to the KLM captain. If he had waited for confirmation that Pan Am was clear and a takeoff clearence, this wouldn't have happened regardless of delays or fuel. But he thought he was better than his crew and didn't listen...see what happens...

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

@Neil85091

I think you are missing the point. Neither KLM or the tower (or Pan Am for that matter) stuck exactly to the rules of correct radio usage in use at the time. Consequently, the exchange was ambiguous. The KLM crew asked for take off clearance. The Captain heard the tower reply 'You are cleared...' and took this as the reply to his request for take off clearance. That was sloppy, but I am 100% certain he began his take off roll believeing in his own mind he was cleared.

[vonkruel]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks take off clearance was never requested by KLM. read the transcript.

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

@vonkruel

From the transcript:

17:05.8 "Uh... The KLM 4805 is now ready for take off and, uh... we are waiting for our ATC clearance".

"The KLM 4805 is now ready for take off" is the typical way a crew would request take off clearance in the 1970s. You can google for CVR transcripts of other incidents & you will see this was common practice. What is unusual was to ask for ATC (route) clearance in the same message, it was normally given earlier. After Tenerife this was no longer allowed.

[vonkruel]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks Maybe they did (in an informal way) ask for takeoff clearance, but they said they were waiting for ATC CLEARANCE. When ATC clearance was given, this was erroneously taken to mean ATC *plus* takeoff clearance. Takeoff clearance was in fact NEVER GIVEN and never (properly) asked for. I'm not a pilot, but it seems to me it would be smart to actually get takeoff clearance in a situation like this, with limited visibility and another aircraft back-taxiing down your runway.

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

@vonkruel

They said they were ready for take off in the accepted way at the time AND they were requesting ATC clearance. Two requests.

The correct protocol in 1977 was to proceed the clearance with the description of the type of clearance being given, e.g: "This is you ATC clearance". The controller didn't do this. So, yes, everyone being informal, no one following protocol properly, the controller meaning one thing & the pilots assuming something else.

All dangerously ambiguous radio usage.

[vonkruel]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks ATC did nothing wrong. If you read the transcript, the clearance given by ATC was CLEARLY NOT takeoff clearance. It was ATC CLEARANCE - which is the clearance KLM said it was waiting for.

Are you Dutch? I think you can get a job with the Dutch aviation authority. Don't bother applying with the NTSB though - they don't hire retarded people.

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

@vonkruel

"Are you Dutch? I think you can get a job with the Dutch aviation authority. Don't bother applying with the NTSB though - they don't hire retarded people."

Well done. I think that childish comment sums up you, your prejudices and the value of your contribution pretty well.

[vonkruel]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks if you don't think VZ's tragic mistake is the key root cause of this disaster, then I'm afraid you really are retarded.

HE DIDN'T GET TAKEOFF CLEARANCE! ATC CLEARANCE WAS ALL HE NEEDED! EVEN THOUGH VISIBILITY WAS SHIT, AND HE KNEW ANOTHER AIRCRAFT HAD BEEN BACK-TAXIING DOWN THE SAME DAMN RUNWAY.

Nonetheless, you want to blame anyone and anything except VZ. Yes, improvements in procedure were made, but it doesn't change who made the most baffling and tragic fuck-up here.

[vonkruel]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks and again - clearance given by ATC to KLM could not be mistaken for anything other than ATC clearance. It is not an understandable mistake on the part of VZ - it is a truly baffling mistake.

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

Nice to see a documentary free of the stupid fairly tale cameos found in the 'Crash Of The Century' documentary.

But... Shame they have repeated the usual mistakes and misconceptions, though. The documentary makers seem to use other docus as their source and repeat the same stuff. Shame no one ever does any decent research... it is easy to find information in the original reports that contradict many errors in this account. Eg: the KLM was certainly NOT fully fuelled.

[gtimny]

@NoCheeseAndNoSocks Decent research? - you're absolutely wrong about the KLM plane not being fueled. In fact, worried that further delay would put his crew over their maximum flying hours, the KLM captain DID refuel with enough to get him back to Amsterdam. Without the added weight, he *might* have been able to clear Pan Am. The error that astonished me was the claim that no major incursion accident occurred from 1983 until 2001. 34 people died at LAX in 1991 in the USAir/Skywest collision.

[NoCheeseAndNoSocks]

@gtimny

"Decent research? - you're absolutely wrong about the KLM plane not being fueled. In fact, worried that further delay would put his crew over their maximum flying hours, the KLM captain DID refuel with enough to get him back to Amsterdam."

Wrong. Read what I said.

The vid clams the KLM was *FULLY* fuelled. It was refuelled with a normal fuel load for a flight to Amsterdam of 55 500 ltrs. . A 747-200 can hold nearly 200 000 litres of fuel. It was a long way short of 'fully fuelled'.