The Scientific And Rationalist Case For Life After Death - 2

[Vierzbanator]

I think I've watched enough Ghost Hunters to know that ghosts do not just materialize. Ghosts are on the Electro Magnetic spectrum and do not just materialize. They need enough electro-magnetic energy to atract photons into thier shape.

[cunnidvd]

materialized? if they're material catch them. put em in a cage to show everyone. or at least film them. hmmmm. there actually is considerable evidence suggesting if not proving dualism. consciousness is not a product of the brain. i was hoping these videos would be legit and not just phoney medium bs.

[mlgarton]

@cunnidvd Agreed. These videos are pretty weak. There are a lot of good books on the subject, though.

[onlyonemadfrog]

@StarRider1250 THERE IS !!!!!

[Malorie001]

Are you kidding? When he says "materializing" he's talking about a medium performing for him? Is he serious about this being some sort of scientific proof fro life after death? GIVE ME A BREAK! I thought that he might actuall have some proof to offer, but sadly he's just another kook with a conspiracy theory. Oh, the scientific community has it in for us.

[ronald1988ish]

Really refreshing to hear a scientific argument on this subject. I truly believe that science can explain all things in the universe, it's only our understanding of science prevents this.

True scientists always question with open minds, becuase thats the whole point of science, to question new ideas, not deride them.

[visualart139]

@i think he meant spirits manifest itself in physical form

[visualart139]

where can i find this " mathematical proof" of the materialisation ?

[jasonwkeller76]

And the positive is God and the negative is satan. The positive is Love, the negative is hate. The positive is darkness, The negative is darkness.

[endofscene]

by "materialise" does he mean that the spirits manifest physically in front of people? Or does he mean that spirits are channelled through a human medium?

[goremand]

What does materialising mean? I he really talking about people coming back from the dead and walking around?

[psandbergnz]

If these materialisations have occurred, where's the film footage please?

[rgwholt]

Proof, where, i can't see it, so much talk, he is like the uncomfortable sort of person you find yourself sitting next to on a long haul plane journey, sort of an Alan Partridge figure, who is so convinced he is right. Maybe he is ,who knows, but waffling on about repeatable experiments and proof, while not providing anything except his own opinions, just so much hot air........Bet he's not married,!!!

[WizzardOfGlue]

i think we are all like a light bulbs, and when we die. our light goes back to were it came from.

[csrtitus]

@WizzardOfGlue that makes no sense.

[babywarthog]

Human knowledge has progressed over the centuries through scientific theory and research, let's give these theories some real thought, I think it would be irrational to believe that we know everything about science and we have nothing further to learn.

Also, let's remember that Charles Darwin was once called a 'nutter" and now his theories are accepted as scientific fact.

[yeahyeahyeahyeahya]

"A lot of people know that you can never trust what you see on T.V."

We wouldn't be so ignorant if only that were the case.

[herbiepop]

One can tell just by looking at his sunken eyes and from the tone of his voice that he's a nutter.

[lostindreams3]

Putting aside the spiritual and turning back to the physical, I'm betting there is a genealogical link between the Smothers Brothers and this individual.

[bananafix]

here's the scientific case that you are a douchebag. how bout some video einstien?

[uglyfish3]

Its all nonsense. Almost every physics reference and quote this guy makes is out of context and is completely missing what the theories and quotes mean.

[GodForum]

uglyfish3 - Are you saying that matter is destroyed and not transformed ?

[ruskylinee]

where can we find the proof? proof is not a proof by just saying th e word "proof". proof it's only a proof when there is some physical evidence behind it

[Frogstomp121]

Then God will never be "proven".

[jimm124]

You cant prove life after death because the forces that be won't let it happen, the masses are not suppose to know, we are suppose to always question until the veil is raised when we die.

[bbuurrcchh]

In my opinion it is not a kind of conspiracy like you seem to suggest, rather the concept of life after death runs counter to the prevailing paradigms in natural sciences, i.e. materialism implying everything can be explained by atoms, molecules etc., therefore any evidence for life after death is being rejected.

[qxtctv]

It's a shame there will be no way of telling him he was wrong when he's dead.

[debauchery73]

1:20 what a creepy guy!

[DMCpro6944]

yeah you are very right!! very creepy guys!!

[Hopeful71]

Pathetic

"I have proof and this is the most important thing ever but I won't show you here."

Furthermore, i must have a celebrity scientist be involved so the media will have to take notice & when it all fails we can make some lame excuse while still recruiting millions to whatever gullible cult we are shilling.

Fact & evidence stand on their own; if someone dances around actually presenting them, they are trying to sell you something.

[mounthydra]

"think AusDavid12 eluded to the current paradigm has been established for years and may resist the energy moving toward a shift in perception"

Their might be stronger resistance if Sam Parnia's NDE study produces positive results, as opposed to negative results. A paradigm should technically change if evidence and (reproducability) show it, however it probably takes decades for a new paradigm to be commonly accepted. Either way, NDEs can support or refute the current materialist paradigm

[Dejavu12321]

Well they better hurry up and get something going soon with this or no one is going to really care.

[mgdivad]

"Smart" people love themselves

[Horza2002]

There is another problem, Newtons Laws of physics are wrong. They asume that time and mass are absolute which they are NOT. And before you say that based on relativity which is claimed to be wrong, it has been proved in particle accelerators. The particles get close to the speed of light and as they do they get heavier in direct contridiction to Newtons laws.

[chriser1632]

does anyone no the nane of the medium who is bringing these people back

[AusDavid12]

The main point to make here is that these views should be able to be heard, than people can make up their own minds. Why do we only hear from materialist atheist or religion? Why not let the world hear this third view?

[spudpeel]

I agree you need freedom of speech, but when you give an equal platform to information which has been shown experimentally to be incorrect, then you are essentially misleading people.

[AusDavid12]

Yes but the people who have been misleading people have had it all their own way for years.

[spudpeel]

Are you disagreeing with me or agreeing? Im really not sure.

[JNdigital]

I think AusDavid12 eluded to the current paradigm has been established for years and may resist the energy moving toward a shift in perception

[isforbliss]

one reason might be that if people were actually convinced both in "faith" and "fact" that there was life after death. what would follow?

how would you live your Eternal Life?

[AusDavid12]

"how would you live your Eternal Life?" I think this is a question that cannot be aswered from where we are. Is enternity outside of time? For example. I suppose we all have to hear the arguments from all sides and come to our own conclusions.

[CornCake50]

I agree with you man.

[chariotride]

We live in 3 dimensions and the math I'm told by Chuck Missler suggest there are at least 10 dimensions. I absolutley trust that there is life after death. I know from fm conscience that there is right and wrong, there for When God says he is Holy it makes sense. Sin and wrong is what happens out of the will of God. God came to earth, Jesus was manifest in the flesh. What people do with this proven phenomenon is really the question.

[AllahConsciousness]

All Consciousness exists eternally in accordance with the supreme personality of Godhead. God is the other wavelength. We are to God as a cell is to a body. Each cell has the genetic data of the whole, just as we are made in the image of the Heavenly Father.

[vsolokha]

materializing is demons. there is life after death, but not in materializing, its a regular person being regularly alive.

[oscarin124]

There is survival after death, let me explain, you konw when we die, we discompose when we are buried and in that process, we turn into thousands or maybe millions of pieces and thats what survives of us, we are 70% water, thats one of things that survive, so, when we drink water, we are drinking someone else whos been dead for a while. so when somebody is born, there are parts of other poeple could be thousands of poeple mixed togeter, it crazy right? don't belive me. but think about that.

[fielsjd]

Groovy man. Pass the joint.

[happysexytime]

lol you are right

[EnderGate]

Hebrews 9:27

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"

[Yallno22]

The Truth Finally!

[ClubCityWorks]

i didnt believe in jesus enough at all. i then had a dream all too real...and i was never bothered by anyone to become religious. there is an afterlife. This life is worth living while im here, there is a lot that can be done good and bad within a short timeframe...i choose to make a difference. The next life is worth the trouble as well. I push religion on nobody. I hated it when people would be "bugging" talking about religion, until i had my dream that brought everything together.

[faustus999]

i agree the bible is man-made all religions are. don't just read..study them they are all falable, contradictory and provable that they are bull shit. but after 'studying' over 20 years the only conclusio i have come to is that their is a 'continuence' after you 'die' but untill you die you won't know what it is. their is a 'god' figure i believe, and love one another is the message. a message that all religions promote and all religions ignore

[maddtears]

There are no spirits or another side. The Bible never said that when you die you go to Heaven. The Bible says that when you die you are dead period. When the end time comes you are then resurrected. People do not go to Heaven. Heaven comes to us here on Earth. Also People do not go to Hell. If you do not repent you will be destroyed.

[aztekno2012]

The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion and politics but it is not the path to knowledge. It has no place in the evidence of science

[ahsure]

such a grim view you have

[maddtears]

Grim?? I would say grim is the more popular although wrong view that when you die if you are not right with God you go to hell to burn forever and ever.

[alaksandra]

Only trust in God Mercy.

[kucheto]

Finally. Someone with good knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures.

[alifeofreason]

@kucheto Read Spinoza.

[ZooropaDweller]

Psalms 146:3,4 "Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,

Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish."

Also e.g. Ecles.9:5,6,10;

[k0smon]

Maddtears; Your beliefs sound like those who used to be called 'Russellites'. That philosophy flies against spiritual reality; i.e. persons communicating with "dead" relatives thru mediums. And now you will say "demons pretending..." Get up to date. Look up Victor Zammit here on youtube. Read "Life in the World Unseen", download from the internet.

[ipjmfreely]

and why don't the spirits tell us what on the other side. im so sick of hear life after death and not seeing anything; it makes me sick.

[k0smon]

ipjm: They do tell us what is on the other side! Download from the internet "Life in the world unseen". Look up Victor Zammit here on youtube. The spirits may not come to you directly, but there is plenty of info. available!

[brianzimsky]

"And the preacher's carping that for failure on earth heaven will be your reward".

I'm thinking about that after I'm dead anyway.

[GoodFellah69]

(most)religious people believe in an afterlife

(most)non-religious people don't believe in an afterlife but they do believe there is something.

this is simply because its to scary and spooky to think that the consciousness will not outlast the body once your death.

[szonkie]

Totally agree, we have been brainwashed for centuries, such simple minds will never understand the truth behind the mask, afterall we are only just floating on a large ball in the middle of space, mmm let us ponder on that for a bit!!! is that not a miracle enough or does it seem normal to you?

[dirtydonki]

Pearson comes from an outside discipline and is suddenly and expert in a field he has no background in. In fact he is so brilliant that he dismisses Einstein just like that. This is a load of old poppycock.

Heavens forbid that anyone ever gets sucked into this.

[Exemez]

life after death is real ... face it those who dont believe in the phenomena will never evolve and will be stuck in the 3d for ever

[ummbasso1]

He states that wave particle duality had not been discovered when Einstein came up with the theory of relativity, this is rubbish Einstein was one of the foremost pioneers of wave particle duality. In any case string theory proves that wave, particles are different sides of the same coin they are not separate. People who believe this also believe Dereck Accora is the real deal.

[2NDLTUSMC]

IF you have the proof, then why is it that you can't show it? And why don't more people talk about it?

[bhn45r]

XallseeingeyeX- idk whether to believe it or not, but it sounds so good, they say they have the math for it....what are leaning towards? Do you believe it?

[FLstudiomagic]

the earth is a snowglobe.

[katrinatecxidor]

forget about the bible, u do not need a "sacred book" to know aobut the soul. its all around you. the hardest things to relize is what is right in front of your face! relize whats going on in the universe people.

[OnSafari247]

your a koo koo

[OnSafari247]

Actually we were informed about life after death 2000 years ago. His name was jesus christ. He healed. He raised people from the dead. He told us we have a soul. He told us that there is a God ,and in fact, we see him every time we look at the sun. On the other hand, I'm not sure what this guy is talking about.

[britfolkgod]

To believe that, you first have to believe that the Bible is the word of God, but it's the words of men. This video is far easier to accept because it's based on reason and not faith.

[OnSafari247]

What about Jesus Himself. The year is 2007. Which does in fact mean 2007 years after the birth of Christ. I can understand that statement in regards to the Old Testemant but not the New. The name Jesus Christ has been so overused and taken for granted that people have forgotten that it actually happened and He was a reality. Many don't realize that the New Testemant is an extremely reliable historical text.

[ZeNiteOwl]

lol, jesus christ? There are still fools that believe that book?

[michinobu]

And, that's more unrealistic than ghosts? Existence of a Supreme Being is probably more easily proven than the mind being seperate of the brain since there's no proof of that, even with Pearson's theory.

[rmatmcam]

hear,hear, someone with sense!

[OnSafari247]

Ummm....What? If your going to write a comment, make it coherent.

[OnSafari247]

There is no doubt in my mind that Christ was exactly what he said he was. I did not post my comment to indicate anything else. I'm not saying unbelievers go to hell, you did. It is not my place to judge anyone, and that was not the intention of my iniatal comment.

[4X4Man123]

A bible is not necessary to convince me that there is more to living than just dying.

[OnSafari247]

True and I agree....But without Christ, no one will

live past this life, and that's why the Bible is neccessary.

[rmatmcam]

So you will be going to a heaven without flowers,trees,animals,etc,'cos they haven't been 'saved' and don't believe,or have read your bible,written by man,and altered over the years to keep the priests in power.

[orlando098]

This is all interesting - but if it's true - about all these recent examples of (completely convincing) materialisation - why don;t we all know about it? Do they still take place in darkened rooms? Are they ever filmed? I don;t believe MR has a hidden agenda, but I know people want so much to believe in life after death they can sometimes be easily convinced. Anecdotes are not enough.

[FindlayRoll]

orlando098: We must indeed repeat the Crookes experiments with a contemporary materialisation medium.Let's just hope one comes forward and dedicates their gift to bringing enlightenment to people on this appallingly backward planet. We can't force them. Our scientists are ready to go.

[orlando098]

But you say in your talks that such mediums are practicing today - I take your word for it; i've never seen one

[orlando098]

if they can genuinely do this astonishing thing that would transform the world/everybody's lives then why are they not rushing to prove it?

[MonkeyMagic88]

Who owns the mass media?-Google this for a better perspective-> "Communist NKVD Jews Genocide Russia Ukraine" & now this-> "Jews Bush Administration" and now this "USS Liberty Israel false flag" - don't care about these facts ?...you will,then you'll remember and know what to do.

[gabrielg01]

"positive and negative energies are breeding"...what the hell does that mean???...

[FindlayRoll]

It's impossible to explain positive and negative energies breeding in a few lines. You have to make the effort and read Ronald Pearson's papers that have been peer-refereed and published. The so-called spiritual part of the universe is forcing the physical part of the universe to expand, not a Big Bang at a single point in time.

[redstarrrrr]

Einstein's Theory of Relativity is the fundamental foundation of modern physics theories. It has testable evidence all over the place. I think this guy's rants about materialization... Materialization doesn't just happen, the probability of that happening means waiting longer than the lifetime of the Universe.

[Jeda1066]

I attended a Silver Cord sitting. I checked the medium, the room, the other sitters . I shook hands with "dead" people. I saw their fingers under the light of luminous paint (one was child sized fingers that moved - there were no children in the room other than the boy that materialized). Einstein was wrong or are people that have witnessed the countless incidents of "paranormal"(which is actually natural) activity over time just deluded? Science is still in its infancy.

[orlando098]

<<sigh>> you witnessed some fingers covered in luminous paint in a darkened room? This is shit. We need real, solid proof. Otherwise it all sounds like a fake.

[Cyrusk4]

Orlando, all you're going to get are anecdotes because even the existing photographs and evidence wouldn't be enough to convince you if you've already made up your mind. Your posting is a little excessive, if you could cut it down just a bit then it would help the discussion out.

[Jeda1066]

Orlando: why is it "shit" that I saw fingers wriggling on a luminous plaque? I have good eyesight and a logical mind. I and every other sitter in the room saw them. They were small, like that of an older child and they moved.

[orlando098]

but surely that would be easy to fake? I just find it very disappointing that the best proof of life after death is a few spooky experiences in a darkened room. I don;t think any scientsists are going to be imperssed

[Jeda1066]

the fingers were small - they belonged to a child - there were no children in the room - I am intelligent enough to realise if a child had joined us prior to sealing off the room. Maybe... just maybe this time it wasn't faked. How does that make you feel?

[orlando098]

well I wasn;t there, so i can;t know exactly what you experienced. Also I read something recently where a scientist had endorsed some psychic phenomena until james Randi showed him conjouring techniques which could reproduce the same thing and he retracted his endorsement. It's not a question of whether you are intelligent or not. It seems to me it must be fairly easy to fake phenomena if they are occurring in a darkened room.

[orlando098]

If it was true I would be pleased. I wouldn;t take such an interest in this topic if I had completely "made up my mind". I am just disappointed that even the world's best mediums can apparently do nothing much more than reproduce séance room phenomena that most people got bored of 100 years ago, becasue they were not evidential enough and too open to fraud.

[debalazo]

orlando, you knock on the wrong door. This is not the place to LEARN, only hear anecdotes. Practice with the Rhine Cards, telepathy, the easiest, and check YOUR odds, not other peoples'. Psychic experience is PERSONAL, not anectdotal, that's why so many sceptics who talk but don't WORK to find out. As YOU allow your SELF, you will or not get to it. It's only YOUR mind, and nobody has control over it, unless you let it under hypnosis. FORBIDDEN, not even self-hypnosis. 'Seek and ye shall find.'

[FindlayRoll]

From Ronald Pearson: My alternative to general relativity, first published by the Russian Academy of Siences, matches all the checks considered unique achievements of GR but, unlike GR, is free from internal contridiction and is fully quantum compatible.

[pantherz9103]

While I haven't seen materialisation occur, I have heard numerous audio clips and read and heard numerous testimonies.

[orlando098]

and why has no one heard of it? apart from when you talk about it?

[WhatNoKiss]

So here you have the experiments that support. Now all you need is the mathematical logic to "prove" the theory. I have it. (Do you?) Wanna see it?

[fibonaccian]

Hi people!

Stop trying to intellectualize what this madman roll says, He is just trying to tell you such a big lie that you start to think, hey! maybe!

Don`t do it, he is just a crook with absolutely no proof and pretents that oh yeah! we should just accept it, because he, with his ridiculous face and polo neck says so. He is a complete shameless lier and that is that!

[macawalrus]

if you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen and go eat your own shit

[Cyrusk4]

Mac if you're responding to Fibo don't worry about him he's just trolling there's no reason to get pissed off

[pantherz9103]

So what are you telling us instead? Do you have proof that what he is saying is not true? There are people in this thread who claim to have witnessed what Roll says as true. I'm inclined to believe their testimony above a dingbat like yourself. The physics that Roll talks about makes sense to me, you on the other don't make any sense.

[britfolkgod]

fibonaccian's responses to this stuff are so angry I can only guess he's got some personal axe to grind with Roll, or his religion or mindset or whatever have been upset by another idea. Either way it's bad form.

[uselogic]

David Icke already figured this out

[britfolkgod]

Yeah but he thinks that Queen Elizabeth is a lizard.

[Lizhealth]

Unable to view this one at all.  A shame!

[Bladecrimson]

So what we believe is 'real' is but a collective construct of potential possabilites. When we factor in Multiverse and String Theory ideas into definitions of life/death, we can easily see how the ghost in the machine, can travel to oscillating frequencies of waveform that are parallel universe's, our reality, is merely a construct of illusion, perfectly real to the observer within it, not unlike a quantum computer simulation.

[Bladecrimson]

The subject matter may be the same, as those of you that make statements about this being 'old news', however the science beneath it is very diffirent, because due to quantum mechanics we know some things that change the very fabric of what we like to think is a physical reality where objects 'touch' or come into 'physical contact' with one another. We know this is an illusion now, EM fields create matter, and the 4 forces of energy can be unified into one!

[Cyrusk4]

Go to survivalafterdeath dot org, and look up Minnie Harrison under photographs and you'll see a great photo of a half-materialized woman.

You don't see photo's all over the place because you need a very skilled medium with very sensitive controls. If you hit a materialized person with a lot of light / energy waves it pretty much destroys it. But it's not impossible by any means.

[sardarshamas]

This idea is not new! If you study the true religious books in their own revealed languages and not english translations than you will see that this scientific knowledge has already been understood! I.e after life being a different wavelength or divine laws being GOD! God is the universal laws etc... the materialising of people etc... is a weird concept...not understood or explained well by this chap... the other stuff on frequencies etc..is spot on!

[orlando098]

and why pray tell is it impossible to read and understand this information without learning sanskrit or pali etc? And as far as I know ancient religious books are far from being @ scientific@ in their language. They can be taken to mean pretty much anything

[sardarshamas]

well no not really! Prophets and sages were given revelations.. whai in arabic meaning they could see things that ordinary people couldn't! Why?

[sardarshamas]

Bcoz they had honed their thinking to that level! If you shine light onto a man whose eyes are accustomed to the dark..u will blind him but if u wrap his eyes and unfold the wrap slightly until his eyes are adjusted slowley than he will not be blinded. hence same with religios teachings. They are wrappings that come off as ur understanding of the universal truths increases!

[coltrain210]

Okay. This is my first exposure to this idea so bare with me. When he says, "materialize," does he mean the image begins to appear of the dead. If so, why not film the event? Basic questions I know, but I had to ask.

[Cyrusk4]

Hi Coltrain, there are photographs available online (as I mentioned in the other comment), most were taken some decades ago when this stuff was heavily researched, there's also a lot of audio available, but filming is extremely hard because electronics damage everything, during most seances every electronic item in the house/lab has to be unplugged or else the energy that radiates simply destroys the conditions and materializations don't occur.

[orlando098]

this sort of thing is just sooooo convenient... materialisations must take place in the dark so as not to harm the ectoplasm.. the phenomena effect the electric equipment that could record the proof blablabla. I find it most disappointing and unconvincing

[binkle1]

Where are the PHOTOS and VIDEOS of the people materializing? COME ON, in this day and age, this should be infinitely possible!

[nagraimachMor]

yeah great debate (fibonaccian) you must be a REAL genius sorry geniASS

[aphex099]

Fibonaccian just goes around the parts of thie video slating it on basis ad hominem. I am yet to see him/her offer anything to the debate, other than his own opinion. In fact, I think it is part one where he claims he knows best through the experiences of his own life.

Go figure.

[fibonaccian]

Anyone who takes this Roll seriously needs their head

examined, he is just a lonely old and desperate for attention loser.

[pantherz9103]

What he's saying sounds perfectly reasonable when combining my understanding of quantum physics and my own experience of supernormal phenomena together.

You on the other hand are what I call a 'nuffy'.

[FindlayRoll]

pantherz9103 (6 days ago)I feel that "supernormal phenomena" is a very good description of what I witnessed at a materialisation experiment. Nothing is supernatural, above or beyond the laws of nature (physics). If something happens then it must come within the laws of physics. Physics = natural philosophy.

[pantherz9103]

I haven't had the fortune of witnessing anything like that but I would like to in the future!

Where did you witness this? I listen to materialisation seances at Victor Zammit's website so I'm learning about this phenomena but can't imagine what its really like.

[alchemist2012]

ok but we should not consult the dead the bible says.

[aphex099]

Why do you think that is though Alchemist? As religions have invested a lot of time, effort and money into their version of the truth, they would not want anyone to jeapordise their monopoly of the truth.

Nothing like the fear of hell to stop people finding the truth of heaven.

[alchemist2012]

The truth is not so complicated after all. Because most have different version and yet claim to be right, I investigated the muslim, budism, scienthology Christianity and etc. and the results? check it out. You are either "THE ONE or "NO ONE" because someone is Illusion! myspace / shinespeed

[FactsAreFacts]

Books say many things. But what do you say? I think you should consider your reasons for agreeing with the bible then let others know, rather than simply say "the book says so".

[alchemist2012]

Its on my page. myspace dot com / shinepeed

[EndTimesApproaching]

excellent work.