When Wagner's music was new, people also complained it sounded like the devil. Same with Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy Page, the list goes on forever.
But if you don't like it, that's fine of course. Just listen to whatever you like.
To all of those who slander say "people are too close minded" I'd just like it if you were aware that you can be an open minded individual and still decided on not liking something.
The most innovative music will always sound like 'the composer ran out of ideas', at least to those too close-minded to actually appreciate it. Those who can appreciate it (especially other composers) are the ones these pieces are written for.
i find the technique extremely interesting in the sense that you extend the palette of notes and the mathematical division of the scale. its like taking the first step towards looking at sound (not just music) through a microscope, on the other hand im having trouble adjusting to this.
I love the drone to it as well as the parts that seem to illustrate the state of being lost in thought. Quarter tones would be great for horror film soundtracks and progressive music.
All of that is only experimental. The occidental musicians don't have phrasing for that type of interval system. But, like the Greek Modes and functional harmony, this new system needs to be rationalized in new scales and chords (progressions), trying to discover another order, because, listening this peaces, you fell very chaotically harmony. One point of start is relationship between the notes and compare that whit the tonal to find rations more harmonic, the new tensions/relaxing notes.
This is stunning. The in-between notes have the illusion of falling in pitch as they decay. It's kind of reminiscent of the Doppler effect. Think sirens on passing firetrucks. Am I the only one experiencing it like that?
wow, he really uses this strange language to express some deep emotions. Beautifully played, had a guilty pleasure to enjoy hearing the split note mistake at 1:45 even in that texture! lol
Just my opinion: we can use the microtones-quartertones etc only in some standard positions,depends the tetrachord or music scale we use,like in Byzantine/oriental music,when we play "disconnected" quartertones the resault is realy paranoid/chaotic.If a "psychologically sensitive" person listen to this music for long time,probable he will get paranoia or loose him personality!
This is great and all but I think people need to put more focus on melodies with microtones instead of just harmony. I haven't seen much of it. Also this sounds more atonal to me, not because it's microtonal but because it's the way it's been done, which isn't bad, it's just people need to do more tonal context microtonal music with a good melody. But I do love atonal music as well and microtonal atonal is really interesting. :)
@akamarutv I know what you mean. I wrote one for 2 pnos and had 24 note scales. You must like Harry Partch. He invented an instrument that had (I believe) 48 "notes" in the scale.
@rezmogm You mean like taking like 10 notes out of 24 and making a scale on it? Did you invent a major or minor scale with quarter tones or something? I would guess it would have like 10 notes at least in a basic scale but you could also make 7 and 5 note scales only possible on 24 notes and octave tuning :) I've tried but I don't understand anything about tuning and the math involved.
Well I was referring to the doubling of possibilities from the chromatic scale. Of course one can pick out several different combinations as you suggest. I tend not to think of fixed scales but the number of tones available on an instrument such as the piano(s).
@akamarutv Many scales are based on small-integer ratios, that is, the ratio between 2 frequencies in harmony. It can be apparent(albiet relative to culture) that these ratios are where consonance arises, generally. I think some of the difficulties in writing for Quarter Tone music is the fact that the new quarter tones don't fall anywhere close to the small integer ratios of frequency, and thus don't add any intervals that are particularly consonant, lending to difficulties for sure.
@Accisma I did no such thing. In fact, I gave myself as an example of someone who likes dissonance. However, I find it meaningless if not contrasted with pure ratios. Take the blues scale for example: A minor pentatonic scale with a tritone added for fun.
@Accisma That's an incredibly eloquent explanation, it conveys it perfectly. I am someone who was raised on plenty of avant-garde music as well as the simplest pop, and I find quarter tone music just as beautiful as a C major chord. It's important to stress the impact of an open mind in music : you don't have to LIKE it, but you can't trash it just because you don't understand it . And if someone DOES like it, don't assume they're putting on a facade because YOU don't like it.
@Shmior It's actually heavily dependent on how you were raised. To a person who was introduced to quarter-tone music, the distinction between notes would be much easier and this would sound quite beautiful instead of heavily dissonant.
@scammy2010 As a musician and physicist I am compelled to respond. I was raised listening to Black Sabbath but the tritone still sounds dissonant. The modern 12 tone scale is an approximation of the simplest ratios of the harmonic series. octaves, fifths, thirds, etc. Minor seconds and tritones still sound dissonant becuase they approximate complex ratios. To get quartertones, we don't even use ratios. Thus we get 12 more intervals as dissonant as the tritone. No one was raised with this.
33/32 = frequencey ratio of a just quarter tone. = ~53 cents.
Equally tempered quarter tone = 50 cents.
Just major third: 5/4 = ~386 cents.
Equally tempered major third = 400 cents.
There is a lot more diffrence between a just major third and an equall tepered one than there is between a just quarter tone and an equally tempered one.
A valid point...but the key here is *simple* pure ratios with numerators like 2,3,5, and 7. I've never heard the interval 51/53 or 989849/15488 but I assure you that it is dissonant like 33/32.
tell me which quartertones approximate simple ratios.
@Shmior Oh yeah, I know that quarter tones are dissonant, but you said "There aren't even ratios involved" which is false.
Also, neutral intervals, which are basically simplier ratios (E.A.5/4, 6/5) adjusted by quarter tones are found very low on the harmonic series as undecimal intervals.
@Shmior Also, ratios alone don't determine how consonant something will sound. For example, the pythagorean diminished fourth:
8192/6561
and the pythaogrean major third
81/64
Using the old idea of simplier ratio = more consonant the pythagorean diminished fourth should be more dissonant than the pythagorean third. However, the pythagorean diminished fourth is ~ 384 cents... Which is pratically audibally indistinguishable from 5/4.
@Shmior Also, it is hard to put up a boundray that divides simple from non-simple ratios. I consider anything that approaches the 80th or so harmonic to no longer be simple, possibly ratios less complex than that, but it is really hard to say. Something arround the 30th harmonic is deffinitley simple (relitivley speaking anyway), unless you have a very limited approach to Just Intonation.
Once more, it really is hard to say what is simple and what is not.
@kratanuva725 I think we finally exhausted the argument as we are in the realm of subjectivity, but at least we agree there is SOME science to what is beautiful and ugly.
@Shmior 3/2 is located between our tempered major sixth and minor seventh i don't think its a tempered quarter tone but its closer than either of those
@Shmior also, 989849/15488 sound pretty consonant to me and as for my last comment, my sleep deprived brain skipped an overtone the ratio i meant was 7/4
And after the first course you are tared and feathered for creating such monstroucious crap.
The problem is some people thing just being(or creating) something different/abnormal means it must be good. Most atonal and avant-garde music is total crap... in fact almost all. The only good thing is serves is that all things tend to start out unsophisticated and must evolve.
Just because you can throw some crap in a pot doesn't mean you can cook.
This actually might sound good in movie scene somewhere. But other than that--yuck! I'm sorry, I've really tried to keep an open mind, but I can't help but laugh at this video. It just sounds like a couple of guys who refused to tune their pianos 'cuz they were too good for that. I understand it's a matter of taste though. I guess it's just something I'm not getting.
My teacher taught me a lot about music like this. True, it isn't something you would necessarily play when you wake up to jump start a great morning... but that doesn't mean its garbage. Don't listen to this (or any vastly different music) in a sense of, "I loved that! What emotion!" But instead as "That was interesting... would I be willing to hear it one more time?"
If the composer is good, that answer should be yes.
You must not listen to too many amateurs all playing together and all out of tune? This music is non-sense and only created because it can be. That is it's only worth. 100 years down the line people will still be listening to Bach and Beethoven but this crap will not remain.
Whats the difference? Most people cannot duplicate Bach or Beethoven but just about anyone can make something comparable to this.
@AbstractDissonance And just because you can throw some words into a "sentence" doesn't make it a valid argument. I can tell you aren't a composer, otherwise you'd realise it is indeed very easy to imitate Bach. To write in a strict and beautiful baroque style is far easier than to imitate a composer such as Ligeti or Ives. Actually read Accisma's comment before pissing all over it.
In essence, it may not be to your taste, but this music is just as deserving of respect as Mozart, Liszt etc.
@AbstractDissonance 100 years down the line, "this crap" won't remain? This piece was written in 1923. I'd say almost 90 years and still popular and influential - not to mention beautiful - is pretty good for "nonsense."
It's all good! Nobody expects you to like it; heck, Ives himself knew no one would, at least when he wrote it. It's just there for you to listen to, and you can interpret it how you choose. =)
A lot of what sounds good to us is cultural. I don't think that this music is junk at all, but rather something that is simply outside the tradition 12-tone equal temperament system we're accustomed to in the West. It sounds bad to most because our ears are not accustomed to sounds like this. To someone who was raised from birth with 24-tone music would probably not find this too strange at all. The concepts of dissonance and consonance are highly relative.
@DarknessHowls infact..listening to this...i feel so narrow-minded all in a sudden...i mean..i wish my ears wouldnt recognize these notes as "dissonance" but, all in a sudden, recognize the, as "well-sounding" ...i feel i need to appreciate this in order not to feel narrow and poor musically to myself..but just..i cannot manage to help my ear finding something "good sounding" in this composition..i feel so unsuited!
@awfulguitarplucker - You don't need to enjoy it to be "musically literate" or whatever--people have different tastes and preferences, and it's natural to find certain sounds grating. I can't imagine that there are many who grew up with 12-tone music who would ever find this appealing. It's a wholly alien thing--it sounds jarring to me, too. I just happen to like loud, noisy, dissonant stuff in general.
There's nothing wrong with playing notes 1/4-step apart, but when you start mixing them so that they clash... that's when I can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes, and I'm not afraid to say it either. This music is junk.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Being from the United States, & in my late 20's, I think I'm in a very large boat that would agree with me in saying THIS SHIT SUCKS!!!!!! Now Chopin, Beethoven, Liszt ext ext, thats music with timeless musical value!! Just because some big brained mathematician/musician can tune a piano a little different doesnt make it interesting or even worth listening too!! Boooo!! Change the fucking channel!!
I disagree, kristotsaucemiller. It's just a difference between tones which we're not accustomed to. Relax, don't stomp on it. Maybe it's a musical dead-end, but perhaps it's a doorway to something fantastic.
I actually think this is awesome--our ears just aren't accustomed to such strange intervals. I think that having one piano tuned a quarter-tone sharp creates a very cool sonic texture, though--I think that if we were brought up listening to this, it wouldn't sound so bad to our ears.
Hearing this, and to include your analogy, was sort of like me discovering cilantro. Suddenly everything I ate had to include cilantro! It transformed sandwiches, burritos, salads and more. Microtones are difficult for western ears, but that difference is a bonus. We get to enjoy what might have become bland to the listening palettes of those who have known of it from birth.
This is interesting. I enjoy the off sound, this is certainly a musical palette I would like to explore.
It's a different thing I know, but in jazz, playing flat or sharp can give a phrase very different qualities. Eric Dolphy often used to intentionally play slightly flat, it can make a phrase bitter, or heady, add a tinge of doubt to an otherwise vanilla statement.
I certainly enjoy this piece, but could certain users stop being so conceited when responding to those who don't share the same sense of aesthetic appeal? You're confusing intelligence with personal preference. They shouldn't have to force themselves to enjoy something they find unpleasant simply because it is considered exquisite by others.
@swagar exactly. it really just takes a lot of musical studying in interest in this area of music to actually appreciate it. truly an acquired taste, but one that you must search for yourself.
WTF, quarter-tones give me the creeps. How can we enjoy it for anything more than the actual musical talent of the artist and possibly some of the complexity, quarters just do not sound audibly appealing due to lack of pitch alignment. woof, if someone can educate me on why this should be regarded as great music than I would be more than willing to accept the point, because as of September 20..I cringe
The first recording I heard of this was live, and when in the third movement ("Chorale," by memory) the pianos resolved into a very clear, if twisted, quote from "God Save the Queen," the audience laughed. I think that's appropriate; if anything, these performances (while skilled and very musical), may be a little too serious.
Does anyone no why the sharp piano is smaller than the one in tune? I was just curious to know if it's supposed to be like that, or if the room/concert hall they were performing in just doesn't have 2 concert grand pianos.
@composer14 I suspect that it has to do with the tension introduced by raising the piano a quarter step. Often times rather than tuning one piano up, they will tune one of them down. The effect is very, very similar. But Ives specified a quarter-tone up for the retuned piano. I think a smaller piano, because of its shortened scale length lessens this tension. Again, this is a guess.
This is actually very interesting. My jazz choir teacher just recently told us about charles ives and his composing style. It's noted in one of his pieces that it's almost impossible to sing the melody with the acc.
This has been a favorite piece of mine since it appeared on an Odyssey LP in the '60s. It's got a queasy sort of improvisatory feel about it, which reminds me of certain solo tracks by Thelonius Monk a bit. I have to say I like the Paratore brothers' performance more than the otherwise forgotten pair on the Odyssey disc.
Actually, it is indeed sharp. The regular tuned piano tends to sound flat to human ears naturally. Kind of an odd phenomena, really. Someone ought to look into it.
As open-minded as I am, I tend to love Charles Ives. However, his Quarter-tone Pieces just don't work for me. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste.
I don't see why I received a thumbs down. I simply expressed not that I hate these, but that they just don't "feel" right to me. They're good, but something about them seems to feel... disjointed.
(I'm guessing that, ironically, this will also receive a thumbs down. Whose the closed-minded one now if you shut down my peacefully presented and thought-out opinion?)
Just imagine how many old ladies with blue hair could not get past the first movement! It is a joke how the brain closes up for so many people, that Ives is casting pearls before swine. Our culture cannot handle anything beyond its stupefying comfort zone. This is an original work of art, its premise is not wallpaper for tea drinkers but to expande our realm of music beyond dogmatic constraints. Ives was a true original! Most of you R not I'll bet!
dude, i totally agree with you. Ives was such a kick ass composer. Everything he writes I love. I love his country band march and the unanswered question. Look that piece up on wikipedia. I found out some really interesting stuff about it. Other great originalists were Berlioz (first saxophone piece and program music) Schoenberg (12 tone method) Bach (everything he did, including jazz) Cage (everything he did). people need to expand their minds to different harmonies.
The second movement is very Jazzy as is the Childrens Hour. I think that we R on the same page regarding Ives music. Aaron Copeland refferred to him as the "genius in a wasteland," Stravinsky called him "The great anticipator" and Schonberg spoke of him as a "great man living in this country, who does not compromise" his freedom of expression!
All of those composers are sick, too. Hey, listen to Ives play his own compositions. Type in the search box Ives plays ives. He is pretty friggen good at piano. You know who else is sick? Aleksandr Scriabin.
Yea agreed! I've a recording of Ives playing the Concord Sonata excerpts. Emerson is a phenomenal work as is Thoreau. I like Scriabin as well he seems to have been another anticipator.
Charles Ives you freak! I had to play his Fourth of July symphony a few years back and that thing is ridiculous. I remember one section where basically you could play whatever you wanted to and it would sound right.
Ives is the man. I love how the piece is a skewed from what would otherwise be an already well formed dissonant piece. It goes the extra mile... That is what Ives was all about. Great mind.
GOOD LUCK !
TheOscarluja 5 days ago
When Wagner's music was new, people also complained it sounded like the devil. Same with Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Jimmy Hendrix, Jimmy Page, the list goes on forever.
But if you don't like it, that's fine of course. Just listen to whatever you like.
Pianofy 1 week ago
To all of those who slander say "people are too close minded" I'd just like it if you were aware that you can be an open minded individual and still decided on not liking something.
Rige02 1 week ago
@Rige02 Quite true, and there is nothing wrong with not liking this piece, but I @#$% LOVE this piece.
FruitMeate 1 week ago
quarter tone dissonances make my ears want to cry (of pain)
elotropotosino 2 weeks ago
mmmmm, i like this? :S
TheBosendorfer 2 weeks ago
This is so beautiful.
sunilpchandy 4 weeks ago
"Well I'm over generalizing .... I don't know this" So, you know you're full of it. Good.
MrArtEffete 1 month ago
The most innovative music will always sound like 'the composer ran out of ideas', at least to those too close-minded to actually appreciate it. Those who can appreciate it (especially other composers) are the ones these pieces are written for.
AEFic 1 month ago
Very nice..however I find he dissonance very unsettling..
darkmortality 1 month ago 2
i find the technique extremely interesting in the sense that you extend the palette of notes and the mathematical division of the scale. its like taking the first step towards looking at sound (not just music) through a microscope, on the other hand im having trouble adjusting to this.
ardotadot 1 month ago 2
The piano has been drinking.
focorockstar 2 months ago 11
whys is this not silly?
D1SStRoY 2 months ago
I love the drone to it as well as the parts that seem to illustrate the state of being lost in thought. Quarter tones would be great for horror film soundtracks and progressive music.
pinnaclefish 2 months ago 4
If only Ravel had in his time known such instrument!
paelathequeen 2 months ago
Thank God for weird music!
repooc44 2 months ago 2
this is the music of composers who ran out of "original" ideas. Something new and exciting! and ear drum wrenching!
moviesmyway 2 months ago
@moviesmyway I guess you could say that about anyone who ever innovated in music, they just ran out of original ideas.
jetpromys 2 months ago
All of that is only experimental. The occidental musicians don't have phrasing for that type of interval system. But, like the Greek Modes and functional harmony, this new system needs to be rationalized in new scales and chords (progressions), trying to discover another order, because, listening this peaces, you fell very chaotically harmony. One point of start is relationship between the notes and compare that whit the tonal to find rations more harmonic, the new tensions/relaxing notes.
jurisblues 3 months ago
Comment removed
def3mno62 3 months ago
@def3mno62 Stop being such a God-damned sissy. Use your ears like a man.
squeemu 3 months ago 8
Comment removed
def3mno62 2 months ago
@squeemu LMAO!!!
mecca777 1 month ago
@def3mno62 It's fine to say you don't like it, but I don't see on what basis you're calling it pretentious.
bordarboy 2 months ago
Comment removed
def3mno62 2 months ago
This is stunning. The in-between notes have the illusion of falling in pitch as they decay. It's kind of reminiscent of the Doppler effect. Think sirens on passing firetrucks. Am I the only one experiencing it like that?
colourfulwithaU 3 months ago
parece me tudo desafinado kkkkkk quebrando as regras...
michaelgomes2009 5 months ago
@Accisma You should write a book.
jridenoure 5 months ago
sounds like church bells ringing
drgabrielsoileau 6 months ago
What's stupid is that Charles ives left no studies, so we can't know anything about the threory behind any of this music.
akamarutv 8 months ago
@akamarutv you can study it yourself .
Pato012 7 months ago
@Pato012 yeah if you had a quarter tone instrument.
akamarutv 7 months ago
@akamarutv touché
Pato012 7 months ago
I like this one alot.
akamarutv 8 months ago
very unique feel!
mysteriousDSF 10 months ago
@Accisma That is literally the exact sentiment of every person who at one time felt honestly changed by non-typical experiences.
wolverinestvscreens 11 months ago
je decouvre et j aime deja!!
54herve 1 year ago
Haha... sounds like a beginner improvising. ^^
sexinisrael 1 year ago
wow, he really uses this strange language to express some deep emotions. Beautifully played, had a guilty pleasure to enjoy hearing the split note mistake at 1:45 even in that texture! lol
88fingerspete 1 year ago
Just my opinion: we can use the microtones-quartertones etc only in some standard positions,depends the tetrachord or music scale we use,like in Byzantine/oriental music,when we play "disconnected" quartertones the resault is realy paranoid/chaotic.If a "psychologically sensitive" person listen to this music for long time,probable he will get paranoia or loose him personality!
lefterhsk1 1 year ago
This is great and all but I think people need to put more focus on melodies with microtones instead of just harmony. I haven't seen much of it. Also this sounds more atonal to me, not because it's microtonal but because it's the way it's been done, which isn't bad, it's just people need to do more tonal context microtonal music with a good melody. But I do love atonal music as well and microtonal atonal is really interesting. :)
akamarutv 1 year ago
@akamarutv I know what you mean. I wrote one for 2 pnos and had 24 note scales. You must like Harry Partch. He invented an instrument that had (I believe) 48 "notes" in the scale.
rezmogm 1 year ago
@rezmogm You mean like taking like 10 notes out of 24 and making a scale on it? Did you invent a major or minor scale with quarter tones or something? I would guess it would have like 10 notes at least in a basic scale but you could also make 7 and 5 note scales only possible on 24 notes and octave tuning :) I've tried but I don't understand anything about tuning and the math involved.
akamarutv 1 year ago
@akamarutv
Well I was referring to the doubling of possibilities from the chromatic scale. Of course one can pick out several different combinations as you suggest. I tend not to think of fixed scales but the number of tones available on an instrument such as the piano(s).
rezmogm 1 year ago
@akamarutv Many scales are based on small-integer ratios, that is, the ratio between 2 frequencies in harmony. It can be apparent(albiet relative to culture) that these ratios are where consonance arises, generally. I think some of the difficulties in writing for Quarter Tone music is the fact that the new quarter tones don't fall anywhere close to the small integer ratios of frequency, and thus don't add any intervals that are particularly consonant, lending to difficulties for sure.
evinism 1 year ago
@rezmogm 43. But yes, Partch is pretty awesome. I'm a big fan of Barstow.
myriad2010 11 months ago
@akamarutv
If you think people should do more of something, and they aren't doing it, the answer is to do it yourself.
colourfulwithaU 3 months ago
anyone interested in microtonality or alternate tunings should look up Harry Partch.
Shmior 1 year ago
such an amazing piece. i wish i had written it :P
ankhsunamun49 1 year ago
I bet this would really mess with the quarter tone pianist's ear.
drumlife1 1 year ago
wow
petezilla 1 year ago
@Accisma I did no such thing. In fact, I gave myself as an example of someone who likes dissonance. However, I find it meaningless if not contrasted with pure ratios. Take the blues scale for example: A minor pentatonic scale with a tritone added for fun.
Shmior 1 year ago
Have fun transcribing!
kleinball 1 year ago 20
just when i think youtube has nothing worthwhile to contribute to humanity... i discover quarter tone music! wow!
charlesreid1 1 year ago
@Accisma That's an incredibly eloquent explanation, it conveys it perfectly. I am someone who was raised on plenty of avant-garde music as well as the simplest pop, and I find quarter tone music just as beautiful as a C major chord. It's important to stress the impact of an open mind in music : you don't have to LIKE it, but you can't trash it just because you don't understand it . And if someone DOES like it, don't assume they're putting on a facade because YOU don't like it.
ArtD42 1 year ago
I like some microtonal music. But dividing the octave into 24 equal parts is arbitrary and never sounds good.
Shmior 1 year ago
@Shmior It's actually heavily dependent on how you were raised. To a person who was introduced to quarter-tone music, the distinction between notes would be much easier and this would sound quite beautiful instead of heavily dissonant.
scammy2010 1 year ago
@scammy2010 As a musician and physicist I am compelled to respond. I was raised listening to Black Sabbath but the tritone still sounds dissonant. The modern 12 tone scale is an approximation of the simplest ratios of the harmonic series. octaves, fifths, thirds, etc. Minor seconds and tritones still sound dissonant becuase they approximate complex ratios. To get quartertones, we don't even use ratios. Thus we get 12 more intervals as dissonant as the tritone. No one was raised with this.
Shmior 1 year ago
@Shmior *ahem*
33/32 = frequencey ratio of a just quarter tone. = ~53 cents.
Equally tempered quarter tone = 50 cents.
Just major third: 5/4 = ~386 cents.
Equally tempered major third = 400 cents.
There is a lot more diffrence between a just major third and an equall tepered one than there is between a just quarter tone and an equally tempered one.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
A valid point...but the key here is *simple* pure ratios with numerators like 2,3,5, and 7. I've never heard the interval 51/53 or 989849/15488 but I assure you that it is dissonant like 33/32.
tell me which quartertones approximate simple ratios.
Shmior 1 year ago
@Shmior Oh yeah, I know that quarter tones are dissonant, but you said "There aren't even ratios involved" which is false.
Also, neutral intervals, which are basically simplier ratios (E.A.5/4, 6/5) adjusted by quarter tones are found very low on the harmonic series as undecimal intervals.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@Shmior Also, ratios alone don't determine how consonant something will sound. For example, the pythagorean diminished fourth:
8192/6561
and the pythaogrean major third
81/64
Using the old idea of simplier ratio = more consonant the pythagorean diminished fourth should be more dissonant than the pythagorean third. However, the pythagorean diminished fourth is ~ 384 cents... Which is pratically audibally indistinguishable from 5/4.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@Shmior Also, it is hard to put up a boundray that divides simple from non-simple ratios. I consider anything that approaches the 80th or so harmonic to no longer be simple, possibly ratios less complex than that, but it is really hard to say. Something arround the 30th harmonic is deffinitley simple (relitivley speaking anyway), unless you have a very limited approach to Just Intonation.
Once more, it really is hard to say what is simple and what is not.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@kratanuva725 I think we finally exhausted the argument as we are in the realm of subjectivity, but at least we agree there is SOME science to what is beautiful and ugly.
Shmior 1 year ago
@Shmior 3/2 is located between our tempered major sixth and minor seventh i don't think its a tempered quarter tone but its closer than either of those
cnmaster01 10 months ago
@Shmior also, 989849/15488 sound pretty consonant to me and as for my last comment, my sleep deprived brain skipped an overtone the ratio i meant was 7/4
cnmaster01 10 months ago
@Accisma
And after the first course you are tared and feathered for creating such monstroucious crap.
The problem is some people thing just being(or creating) something different/abnormal means it must be good. Most atonal and avant-garde music is total crap... in fact almost all. The only good thing is serves is that all things tend to start out unsophisticated and must evolve.
Just because you can throw some crap in a pot doesn't mean you can cook.
AbstractDissonance 1 year ago
Comment removed
Milligan1932 1 year ago
This actually might sound good in movie scene somewhere. But other than that--yuck! I'm sorry, I've really tried to keep an open mind, but I can't help but laugh at this video. It just sounds like a couple of guys who refused to tune their pianos 'cuz they were too good for that. I understand it's a matter of taste though. I guess it's just something I'm not getting.
ggdshack 1 year ago
@Accisma it's a half tone kinda time zone, pal.
MoarOfTehRawkege 1 year ago
thelonious monk must've been into this.
TheMeEvan 1 year ago
I actually rather like this music!
AriaSinger1 1 year ago
Weird but I like this one better. There is more of a sense of harmony.
dragonreborn888 1 year ago
My teacher taught me a lot about music like this. True, it isn't something you would necessarily play when you wake up to jump start a great morning... but that doesn't mean its garbage. Don't listen to this (or any vastly different music) in a sense of, "I loved that! What emotion!" But instead as "That was interesting... would I be willing to hear it one more time?"
If the composer is good, that answer should be yes.
C33Four 1 year ago
@C33Four:'Don't listen to this (or any vastly different music) in a sense of, "I loved that! What emotion!"'
Why not? What if that's how the music makes me feel?
RogueRotting360 1 year ago
I'm not sure if I can feel and understand this music. I only say that I have never expieriance anything like this before.
bartoszthiede 1 year ago
@bartoszthiede
You must not listen to too many amateurs all playing together and all out of tune? This music is non-sense and only created because it can be. That is it's only worth. 100 years down the line people will still be listening to Bach and Beethoven but this crap will not remain.
Whats the difference? Most people cannot duplicate Bach or Beethoven but just about anyone can make something comparable to this.
AbstractDissonance 1 year ago
@AbstractDissonance And just because you can throw some words into a "sentence" doesn't make it a valid argument. I can tell you aren't a composer, otherwise you'd realise it is indeed very easy to imitate Bach. To write in a strict and beautiful baroque style is far easier than to imitate a composer such as Ligeti or Ives. Actually read Accisma's comment before pissing all over it.
In essence, it may not be to your taste, but this music is just as deserving of respect as Mozart, Liszt etc.
Milligan1932 1 year ago
Comment removed
ArtD42 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AbstractDissonance 100 years down the line, "this crap" won't remain? This piece was written in 1923. I'd say almost 90 years and still popular and influential - not to mention beautiful - is pretty good for "nonsense."
ArtD42 1 year ago
My western ears deceive me.
rguitar87 1 year ago
интересно, а если нажать другие клавиши? кто -нибудь заметит разницу?
помните как у Промакашки "Этак и я смогу"
MiguelZZZ1000 1 year ago
I understand what everyone is saying. On both sides. But can I respectfully say that I don't like it? I just... don't.
EbonyShadow07 1 year ago
It's all good! Nobody expects you to like it; heck, Ives himself knew no one would, at least when he wrote it. It's just there for you to listen to, and you can interpret it how you choose. =)
davidjb100 1 year ago
A lot of what sounds good to us is cultural. I don't think that this music is junk at all, but rather something that is simply outside the tradition 12-tone equal temperament system we're accustomed to in the West. It sounds bad to most because our ears are not accustomed to sounds like this. To someone who was raised from birth with 24-tone music would probably not find this too strange at all. The concepts of dissonance and consonance are highly relative.
DarknessHowls 1 year ago
@DarknessHowls infact..listening to this...i feel so narrow-minded all in a sudden...i mean..i wish my ears wouldnt recognize these notes as "dissonance" but, all in a sudden, recognize the, as "well-sounding" ...i feel i need to appreciate this in order not to feel narrow and poor musically to myself..but just..i cannot manage to help my ear finding something "good sounding" in this composition..i feel so unsuited!
awfulguitarplucker 1 year ago
@awfulguitarplucker - You don't need to enjoy it to be "musically literate" or whatever--people have different tastes and preferences, and it's natural to find certain sounds grating. I can't imagine that there are many who grew up with 12-tone music who would ever find this appealing. It's a wholly alien thing--it sounds jarring to me, too. I just happen to like loud, noisy, dissonant stuff in general.
DarknessHowls 1 year ago
There's nothing wrong with playing notes 1/4-step apart, but when you start mixing them so that they clash... that's when I can clearly see that the emperor has no clothes, and I'm not afraid to say it either. This music is junk.
ccoraxfan 1 year ago
@ccoraxfan junk is good.
VolkColopatrion 1 year ago
um, for those people who are bitching cause the/re not used to their poop music tuned to microtones, ever heard sonic youth ? well, thought not ...
rwmartin3456 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Being from the United States, & in my late 20's, I think I'm in a very large boat that would agree with me in saying THIS SHIT SUCKS!!!!!! Now Chopin, Beethoven, Liszt ext ext, thats music with timeless musical value!! Just because some big brained mathematician/musician can tune a piano a little different doesnt make it interesting or even worth listening too!! Boooo!! Change the fucking channel!!
krishotsaucemiller 2 years ago
I disagree, kristotsaucemiller. It's just a difference between tones which we're not accustomed to. Relax, don't stomp on it. Maybe it's a musical dead-end, but perhaps it's a doorway to something fantastic.
Gflopper 2 years ago 5
Well good for you. We can agree to disagree then. I'll take the Beatles or Chopin over this crap any day though..
krishotsaucemiller 2 years ago
At 2.07 the piano sounds like a cymbal - amazing sonorities and timbres,
stockcar5472 2 years ago
I actually think this is awesome--our ears just aren't accustomed to such strange intervals. I think that having one piano tuned a quarter-tone sharp creates a very cool sonic texture, though--I think that if we were brought up listening to this, it wouldn't sound so bad to our ears.
DarknessHowls 2 years ago
Hearing this, and to include your analogy, was sort of like me discovering cilantro. Suddenly everything I ate had to include cilantro! It transformed sandwiches, burritos, salads and more. Microtones are difficult for western ears, but that difference is a bonus. We get to enjoy what might have become bland to the listening palettes of those who have known of it from birth.
FlyingHorseKnuckles 2 years ago
this is the music you hear before satan takes your soul!
Bpet18 2 years ago
Like mixing sugar and something really sour with salt. Some people like it, some won't, that's all. :)
LusianaLukman 2 years ago 2
this is rather amazingly awful in a good way , i love all this crazy tuned stuff
freaky666freak 2 years ago
Well put!
ZoeEGrace 2 years ago
Accisma,
very beatifully said! I agree 100%
s02r 2 years ago
Bells.
albbster 2 years ago
I've heard this piece in several performances. This one is the best performance i've heard.
kasterhuys 2 years ago 2
This is interesting. I enjoy the off sound, this is certainly a musical palette I would like to explore.
It's a different thing I know, but in jazz, playing flat or sharp can give a phrase very different qualities. Eric Dolphy often used to intentionally play slightly flat, it can make a phrase bitter, or heady, add a tinge of doubt to an otherwise vanilla statement.
jazzmunky 2 years ago 2
I certainly enjoy this piece, but could certain users stop being so conceited when responding to those who don't share the same sense of aesthetic appeal? You're confusing intelligence with personal preference. They shouldn't have to force themselves to enjoy something they find unpleasant simply because it is considered exquisite by others.
swagar 2 years ago 2
@swagar exactly. it really just takes a lot of musical studying in interest in this area of music to actually appreciate it. truly an acquired taste, but one that you must search for yourself.
LittleMormonThtCould 3 months ago
wonderful!
planthi80 2 years ago
Absolutely gorgeous. To think this was written 85 years ago and it is still not being performed!
mynameisandycostello 2 years ago 4
very scary music, good for horrors :)
Skipioza 2 years ago
You have to listen to quarter tone music often to appreciate it...And no one is better than Ives
lastlivingsoul09 2 years ago
As if you are listening to a ligety piece but you are very high and time/tone is shifting... VERY psychedelic but good! (:
glantz91 2 years ago 3
interesting sound,good music
wolfsmons 2 years ago
WTF, quarter-tones give me the creeps. How can we enjoy it for anything more than the actual musical talent of the artist and possibly some of the complexity, quarters just do not sound audibly appealing due to lack of pitch alignment. woof, if someone can educate me on why this should be regarded as great music than I would be more than willing to accept the point, because as of September 20..I cringe
TrUthSmith 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"lack of pitch alignment" how pompous and dumb are you?! What is pitch alignment?
220392123 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Suck it
TrUthSmith 2 years ago
"Woof!" ....LOL
jazzmunky 2 years ago
W00t this is really such a good shit ;o
zdzichu42 2 years ago
It sounds exactly like a church bell in the beginning.
Gidselgrisen 2 years ago 2
The first recording I heard of this was live, and when in the third movement ("Chorale," by memory) the pianos resolved into a very clear, if twisted, quote from "God Save the Queen," the audience laughed. I think that's appropriate; if anything, these performances (while skilled and very musical), may be a little too serious.
jackal59 2 years ago 2
Does anyone no why the sharp piano is smaller than the one in tune? I was just curious to know if it's supposed to be like that, or if the room/concert hall they were performing in just doesn't have 2 concert grand pianos.
composer14 2 years ago
@composer14:
The smaller re-tuned piano was exchanged for this piece only. The rest of the recital was played on matching concert grands.
BofferBings 2 years ago
@BofferBings because no one is going to do this to a concert piano that needs to be used in the same recital at 440
junobostock 10 months ago in playlist Grainger
@composer14 I suspect that it has to do with the tension introduced by raising the piano a quarter step. Often times rather than tuning one piano up, they will tune one of them down. The effect is very, very similar. But Ives specified a quarter-tone up for the retuned piano. I think a smaller piano, because of its shortened scale length lessens this tension. Again, this is a guess.
Ooger77 1 year ago
It's cool how it isn't necesarily atonal but it sounds like it
deepislandboy 2 years ago
Thats exactly how my piano sounds!
musicolorhythm 2 years ago 5
im like this close to fucking with my own piano, having been inspired by the greatness that is quarter tone
unsquaresville 2 years ago
were just not used to it
its like weed x 666 and stuff, its like... super phycodelic.
most people would just think its outa tune.
KguitarF 2 years ago
this is really such a good piece.
regcom 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What a dreadful racket
richtomes 2 years ago
Like a constant state of the doppler effect!
Neo21803 2 years ago
Beautiful!
namniekib 2 years ago
I can't help burrow my eyebrows but also enjoy how i'm imagining my breathing is quickening because of how beautifully unsettling this is
TOOTHFAAIREE 3 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
exactly the same here
kuj4z 3 years ago 2
i cant describe how much i am enjoying this
edcerc 3 years ago 2
This is actually very interesting. My jazz choir teacher just recently told us about charles ives and his composing style. It's noted in one of his pieces that it's almost impossible to sing the melody with the acc.
seahopki 3 years ago
Beautiful playing, wonderful piece!
Alexknobsob 3 years ago 2
lols sounds like tunning many guitars at the same time
jackjiezhang 3 years ago
It's almost got a bell-like quailty to it.
I like it! I've stopped listening to the dissonace and really apreciating the music for what it is, and now I love this kinda thing.
ThePiano1991 3 years ago
Yeah, it reminds me of a ringtone effect. Very bell-like, and harmonically jarring.
InThisStyle 3 years ago
This has been a favorite piece of mine since it appeared on an Odyssey LP in the '60s. It's got a queasy sort of improvisatory feel about it, which reminds me of certain solo tracks by Thelonius Monk a bit. I have to say I like the Paratore brothers' performance more than the otherwise forgotten pair on the Odyssey disc.
tandmark 3 years ago
a nice opening for a horror movie... ;o)
TarahYoder07 3 years ago
this was disturbing
i mean i like this but aaah
Iluminator 3 years ago
this is awesome. except i think the piano on the left is tuned a quarter tone flat, not sharp
easilyamused976 3 years ago
Actually, it is indeed sharp. The regular tuned piano tends to sound flat to human ears naturally. Kind of an odd phenomena, really. Someone ought to look into it.
ExVash 3 years ago 2
Oh my gosh. It's so weird. I love it.
CrystalFlames 3 years ago
As open-minded as I am, I tend to love Charles Ives. However, his Quarter-tone Pieces just don't work for me. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste.
ExVash 3 years ago 4
I don't see why I received a thumbs down. I simply expressed not that I hate these, but that they just don't "feel" right to me. They're good, but something about them seems to feel... disjointed.
(I'm guessing that, ironically, this will also receive a thumbs down. Whose the closed-minded one now if you shut down my peacefully presented and thought-out opinion?)
ExVash 3 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
as with stravinski, miles davis, thelonius monk, wendy carlos, and sun ra...moments of genius and moments of unlistenable crap.
ajdicks 3 years ago
Just imagine how many old ladies with blue hair could not get past the first movement! It is a joke how the brain closes up for so many people, that Ives is casting pearls before swine. Our culture cannot handle anything beyond its stupefying comfort zone. This is an original work of art, its premise is not wallpaper for tea drinkers but to expande our realm of music beyond dogmatic constraints. Ives was a true original! Most of you R not I'll bet!
tomestubbs 3 years ago
dude, i totally agree with you. Ives was such a kick ass composer. Everything he writes I love. I love his country band march and the unanswered question. Look that piece up on wikipedia. I found out some really interesting stuff about it. Other great originalists were Berlioz (first saxophone piece and program music) Schoenberg (12 tone method) Bach (everything he did, including jazz) Cage (everything he did). people need to expand their minds to different harmonies.
TheIzzoGuy 3 years ago 2
The second movement is very Jazzy as is the Childrens Hour. I think that we R on the same page regarding Ives music. Aaron Copeland refferred to him as the "genius in a wasteland," Stravinsky called him "The great anticipator" and Schonberg spoke of him as a "great man living in this country, who does not compromise" his freedom of expression!
tomestubbs 3 years ago
All of those composers are sick, too. Hey, listen to Ives play his own compositions. Type in the search box Ives plays ives. He is pretty friggen good at piano. You know who else is sick? Aleksandr Scriabin.
TheIzzoGuy 3 years ago
Yea agreed! I've a recording of Ives playing the Concord Sonata excerpts. Emerson is a phenomenal work as is Thoreau. I like Scriabin as well he seems to have been another anticipator.
tomestubbs 3 years ago
this is actually a very beautiful piece. When you get used to the extremely close harmonies, it becomes very beautiful.
TheIzzoGuy 3 years ago
Sounds very interesting... :-)
subkontrabasklarinet 3 years ago
thos guys are on my dads side of the family. im related to them
lpio200 3 years ago
i have to say the quarter-tones make for some very interesting textures..
shuerm 3 years ago
Too sentimental for my taste...
aldebussy 3 years ago
Charles Ives you freak! I had to play his Fourth of July symphony a few years back and that thing is ridiculous. I remember one section where basically you could play whatever you wanted to and it would sound right.
CaptainRed 3 years ago
wtf?
Tominejo0 3 years ago
it shouldnt sound to bad to most people.
It depends what your ears are used to hearing.
and a quarter of a tone really isnt much, hence why the piano here have a bell-like quailty about them, they 'ring' abit more.
ThePiano1991 3 years ago 2
It's too bad music today is so limited though. Lowest common is a half tone, minus a few exceptions.
Xylence 3 years ago 2
oh get real. if you understand the math behind what sounds good in western music it's readily apparent why exactly this stuff does sound bad.
I FRIGGIN LOVE IT!!!!
axhed 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this shit sounds like a fuckin dieing cat
albogangster1227 3 years ago
Poor sealed-mind idiot you are.
rceretta 3 years ago
I thought I wasn't going to like this but it's really quite awesome
JakeAnti 4 years ago
Forget 12-tone...this is 24-tone music.
baskervylle 4 years ago 3
Ives is the man. I love how the piece is a skewed from what would otherwise be an already well formed dissonant piece. It goes the extra mile... That is what Ives was all about. Great mind.
RainMan34 4 years ago
This kind of music is so liberating, so refreshing to hear. The essence of its beauty is in how different and yet intentional it is.
Timboh56 4 years ago