The leaders sent a rider to Brigham Young to ask what to do in Salt Lake. James Haslam, the rider, left on Sept. 7, a 300-mile journey. Young's return message, "In regard to the emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them until they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please but you should try and preserve good feelings with them." arrived two days after the massacre, September 13, 1857.
Listen To Me PLEASE, The Very Least The (LDS) Church Can Do Is Say "WE (as a collective group) Want To Apoligize For ANY PART The Church MAY Have Had". now, Where Would The Harm Be In That Statement?
The LDS FLOCK Know, WITH OUT QUESTION, That They Planned And Executed This MASSACRE And Paid The indians To Help Them!!!
100% TRUTH. Nope, They Will Not Do That (admit) Guilt, But, They Sure Did Buy Up The Land Did'nt They?
@26478me They didn't pay those poor Indians very much. All they got were some cows and clothes and some ammo. The Mormons took the gain and put it in the Mormon Holy Tithing House. Then sold it at auction, mostly for grain. This benefited Briggy Inc. Haight searched the bodies rather intimately:: He claimed the All the women had "The unclean disease" Guess how Haight figured that out. Yes, people in distress will put valuables in their bodies in hope of keeping something: But not in Mormonism!
If the mormon church really wanted to dispel anything from the massacre to some of the beliefs on their religion, than they should stop being so secretive
its a sore subject i just learned of this.. but if the u.s. would apologize for attacking us Mormons as you say then you would see the amount of massacres the "Free country" has done to us for our religion...
@mjmullen96 I'm not being negative, it's pretty basic knowledge mormons go through a great deal of work to keep everything in the church secret. My friend is a mormon and when she got married anyone who was not mormon was not allowed to attend the ceremony. Little things like that are what I am talking about, it seems like the church goes through quite an effort to hide so many things.
@mjmullen96 It's a sore subject because it was a deliberate attack on innocent people, that was ordered by people of power in the church. Please tell me what massacres have been delivered against the mormon church. The only people with any room to complain would be the people of islam.
What’s even more disgusting is that the Mormons bought the land as an attempt to monopolize the situation and control the damage. There is no mystery behind the massacre at Mountain Meadows! Brigham Young had been teaching the “Blood Atonement” (research) for about 4 or 5 years prior to September, 11th 1857. No doubt they thought the massacre was justified; they were sending everybody to heaven! Can you say “cult”? Mormonism is finished.
godnessdude Blood Atonement is in the Polygamy Revelation, 1843. I posted "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", 1905, by the Living Dead Mormon Prophet Joseph F Smith. It's a long story/ debate with RC Evans, a Bishop. When JFS tuned up RCE, he fled the Monster. I posted that book too, on my front page "20 years in the Mormon Church and Why I Left". Naturally the Hierarchy immediately sued him, dragged him into court, etc. I have many such stories. Some loose, some die. Some win and flee
This was not an act commissioned by LDS church leaders. Had the US army been able to take Brigham and the apostles over this they would have in a heart beat. It has nothing to do with the church, other than participants were members.
Fear, hatred, remorse, and trash talking mixed the deadly cocktail, just like it still does today. The ones responsible for the wrong left the church, just like anti's do today.
The church today has apologised look it up, no way do the First Presidency condone what happened. You make some highly inflammatory accusations but you need to provide some evidence on how those endowments caused the MMM. As I see it, they were a band of renegade Mormons that took it upon themselves, even the statement by John Lee cannot be totally proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
It's really shocking the things people write about the Mormons, I bet they don't even know any Mormon families and are getting all their information off the anti-mormon websites. If you really wanted to know you would find a family and go to church with them instead of attacking them.
Matt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
NO OTHER CHRISTIAN SECT TEACHES THAT JOHN THE BAPTISTS HAS RETURNED.
@LDSapologist71 There is no worse platform to preach Mormonism than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. It is the death knoll on Mormonism regardless how many years it takes. As sure as Adam Eve died when they ate forbidden fruit. And the fruit of Mormonism is the MMM.
@IExposeMormonism and what about the Hauns Mill massacre? I don't hear you bleating about what happened to those poor people, and children that were massacred. Where is the movie about them? Load of hypocrisy.
@ I guess you'll have to do the Hauns Mill video. There are some on Youtube. But you should know the Fanchers and others had Nothing to do with Hauns Mill. No one had anything to do with J. Smiths death. None murdered Parley Pratt. BUT:: If one or ten did, would it be unfair, unkind, unreasonable to simply arrest those parties? And G.A.Smith was sent by B. Young in front of the train preaching violence. There are 2 Martial Law Dec'.Aug5 and Sept15. Mormons had time to do much more than Murder.
@IExposeMormonism it happened a long time ago by militia Mormons, renegades. So many atrocities happened in every country's history. Do we blame Mormons today for what happened? Do we blame every German for Hitler's atrocities? What purpose does it serve, but to learn from history? Many Mormons were slaughtered, tortured and raped, women and children, is there any justification for those horrors? We pray that like the holocaust, they will never be repeated.
@IExposeMormonism and I had nothing to do with the MMM so does that mean I am blameless? Do you want to imprison the prophet today for that crime? I mean where will it end? Shall we try every German because of what Hitler did to 6million Jews? What do you suggest? The Australian Prime minister apologised for the Stolen generation, and that is all you can do. And learn from history, isn't that more to the point?
@novarone72 As far as I'm concerned, Germany should have been dismantled in 1945. Mormonism should be illegal. Seriously. Mormonism has taken every basic belief in Christianity and turned it 180 degrees. Polygamy not Monogamy (Don't go there, 132 is fully intact and waiting it will never be renounced) Polytheism not Monotheism. Mormonism is a polytheistic religion. If you want to hear about Catholics, Jesuits, Jews and such type it in. Jews are blamed for 911 (2001). Its all out there
The burden is entirely on the Mormon to show the truthfulness of the accusations against these people. Your Hierarchy deprived these people of their rights and their lives. Nothing will ever excuse this mass ritual murder of an innocent people. All honest Mormon diaries and witness say these people were doing nothing. Diaries created After the Fact tell lies. Those accusing them are liars lying to conceal a lie. The truth is this: they never harmed anyone. They had no idea what was planned
@IExposeMormonism does that make me responsible for what happened because I am a Mormon? Yes it was wrong, yes it was done by some militia Mormons, and yes it was probably covered up by the Mormon hierachy at the time but to condemn every Mormon today is like condemning every German for what Hitler did. Every nation has atrocities littered in their history, shall we condemn them all? History cannot be changed but we can learn from it. The church has apologised, get over it.
@novarone72 the trouble is with anti-mormons is they go through our history and pick out all the bad stuff and then promote it in an effort to discredit the church and bring it down. I have said before many times on these threads, that you will never succeed no matter what you do or say. There are countless websites solely for this purpose, but have they succeeded? Has the church ceased to function? It never will, because it has based solidly on the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I've never condemned every Mormon or any Mormon. Only those defending the MMM. And there are many. These folks had nothing to do with JS death, PP death or any other Mormon. They were set up. I focus on Mormonism, not the crimes of the Pope, Germany, etc. The Hierarchy has not apologized in any real sense. They use phrases like "close the door on the past". OK: On Mormonism, not on the MMM... I posted J F Smith,1907, Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy. These and Endowments caused the MMM
@IExposeMormonism and you ARE condemning Mormons and Mormonism, they are one and the same you know. Why don't you take the advice of ryboi03 who left some great counsel on your channel page? It is always amusing to see all this stuff plastered on Youtube and the net trying to bring the church down. Have you succeeded with all your efforts? All your uploaded videos, how is it working for you? The church just had their 180th General Conference over 20,000 attended, I guess it aint working!
@novarone72 Mormonism is not Christian so it is condemned. Many people have had a go at Mormonism. All you can do is try and warn, show the errors. Those 20K at GC will not be enough to keep the new Hierarchy funded SLC mall from going bankrupt. If non Mormons stay out of the Babylon of the Basin it will have an impact on the new age "Holiness to the Lord" Mercantile attempt. Money and Mormism=MMM as well. It was done for gain, not revenge. They did nothing
@IExposeMormonism you are wrong but no surprise because of the lies you tell. I believe in Jesus Christ that makes me a Christian, who are you to judge? There are over 14 million members worldwide I would say that is more than enough to not only keep that mall in existence but to also sustain the church for many decades to come. You will never succeed in bringing it down. Better man have tried and failed, it will continue to stand long after you are dead and gone.
@IExposeMormonism many businesses are owned by the church in SLC and Utah, the whole state was built by Mormons I don't know what you are talking about. These places also provide services for people who live there. I have a mall near me too, and thank goodness otherwise I would have to travel over 45 mins to shop, tell me you are not jealous of the church's wealth? At least we can see where the money is going. you are so obsessed with Mormons, get over it.
@IExposeMormonism and I thought you said you were not condemning Mormons, what a liar you are, who would believe anything you say? You cannot condemn Mormonism without condemning it's people and that is what you are doing. I am not responsible for MMM and what happened that day. The church has apologised, the Prime Minister of Austraia has apologised, the German people have apologised, what is your beef? Seriously, you have a big problem, can you even sleep at night?
Not only has the Hierarchy not apologized in any real sense, they also own the MMMsite. So when some bones were found a few years ago the Hierarchy made sure they maintained their supremacy over the site by claiming some buttons and then re-interring the remains. The Hierarchy is deadly serious about keeping control of the crime scene. It is the value system in Mormonism that led to the MMM. Blood Atonement and Polygamy, the Endowments and their oaths. Remove those and the MMM isn't possible
@IExposeMormonism that is so not true. You seem to be claiming a lot but not backing any of your claims with evidence. It is all hearsay or stuff you have gleaned from the many anti-mormon sites you can find anywhere online. MMM did not happen because of Atonement, Polygamy or the Endowments, what preposterous nonsense! But keep it up, some fools will believe you.
@IExposeMormonism I'd be interested to have your take on why so many Mormons were murdered, tortured and raped, women and children and run out of every state. Perhaps it was the lack of prozac or vallium or any other amphetamine in those days that would have stopped so many having phobias about the Mormons. Or maybe you could blame it on the seasons, it was colder and they needed to spill blood to keep warm........do you see how stupid your accusations are?
@novarone72 Prosaic is not amphetamine... The Mormons generally started it. Before the Boggs extermination order was the threat of extermination from Sidney Rigdon. my post of Joseph F Smith, 1907, "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", he says JS was killed at Carthage Because of Polygamy. The P' Revelation nullifies all non Mormon Marriages and contracts. You can see how that might upset those that knew its intent. Everyone inside and outside the jail was a Freemason. Odd.
@IExposeMormonism you are really good at evading questions. Not arguing over prozac being an amphetamine, don't really care. But where you get your facts are is more of a concern. It sounds like the rantings of an ex-mormon if truth be known.
@novarone72 I posted my collection of some 300 original publications. This includes 4 history of the church, one by JS. Adam-God by Tholson, JF SMith "Blood Atonement and the origin of Polygamy", Poetry of Eliza Snow, well, some 35 Pure Mormon books. And I was never Mormon. My Mom was from SLC but I was never raised Morm'. Irish Catholic. I'm going to post a video on "Nice Mormons". I've been broke down in Utah more than once and always got help right away. Not in Calif.
@novarone72 I live near Auberry, Ca "Where the bones of the Mormons are scattered for miles" as frankkirkman typed to me. I didn't know! You guys are all the way up highway 49. "Mormon Bar", just south of Mariposa, for instance. (The Aikens party was from Mariposa and contemporaneous with the Fancher train. They were also killed). Well, I just received "MMM The Jenson-Morris Collection" by Turley, etc. And I have their MMM book. both useful.
@IExposeMormonism what is the fascination with MMM? It was the worst atrocity commited by Mormons in their history but it surely is not the worst that was ever commited and it is definitely not something that they are proud of. Why rake it up when they have apologised? Is not it time to learn from history and move on?
Examination of the MMM shows you are wrong. I knew this going in, just from reading Juanita Brooks. The entire set up shows vast cunning. And walking into that camp with a white flag and making Freemason signs of security it just a little too un Christian. These people did nothing. No chicken-snapping, no beating up old ladies and pushing people around. No arsenic in the creek, no poisoned cows. And then there is kidnapping the children and billing the US people for it. And blaming the Indians.
@IExposeMormonism so what should be done? Are we to crucify all Mormons and their faith? What is the real reason behind your fixation with MMM? You seem to be doing a lot of the hate rhetoric but not much in the way of a reconcilatory attitude........I think there is a hidden agenda, I do not think it is all about MMM truth be known.
@novarone72 someone who researches a subject is "fixated"? Are Juanita Brooks and Walker-Turley-Leonard fixated? They worked on it longer than I. My agenda is to drive Mormons away from Mormonism and towards real Christianity. But at least away from Mormonism. The MMM is an apex in the expression of Mormonism. It seeks to bind the world to it and to take the property and rights from all non Mormons. JS more than once said the wealth of the gentiles was the inheritance of the saints.
@IExposeMormonism you will never drive Mormons away from their faith, that is a rather arrogant statement. People like you will never succeed, if it were so Mormonism would have ended long ago, but Im sorry to be the one to tell you, but it will still be here long after you are dead and gone.
@novarone72 The internet and boobtube have done wonders in exposing the truth not only in Mormonism but other lies. Like 911. No, I mean 2001. We are so malleable it's shameful. Did you know it wasn't diaper headed troglodytes with rusty razors running amuk on planes? And it wasn't the Fanchers. No, it was "U.S." And just as Briggy and Co. did 911 so did George Bush. And as one lied so did the other. And neither Fancher nor OBL did 911. And long after we are gone the truth will be found..
@novarone72 Up early? I have the truth. It is the books of those fleeing Mormonism. I can't cant them all but there must be 50 of them. Then I have some 30 real Mormon books. Then I have the researchers books. Anyone looking at the Abraham Papyrus must come away open mouthed. And then there is the true story of how Rigdon stole Spauldings book. And how Hurlburt stole the other "Manuscript Story" and made sure it would add confusion. The Hawaii manuscript is Red Herring. Very Tricky stuff.
@IExposeMormonism no up late it's 1am Monday morning here, and I'm figuring all those books were written by people ex-mormons, its true what they say, people leave the church but they can't leave it alone. Nice song, poignant.
@novarone72 People leaving Mormonism, esp' 19thC Mormonism, want the world know and they want to put some hurt on it for all the harm it did them. Fanny Stenhouse wasn't lying and neither were the Wards, Nettie Smith, Wife 19, (Brigham Young's true beauty) and other victims of Polygamy. Then there are the guys. Non Mormon and Mormon males hate being killed by Mormons. Beats me, but that's what they say.
@IExposeMormonism I was raised Mormon, but left the church after reading the Book of Mormon for the first time, and found none of the church's doctrines in it, and some passages even condemmed some of their doctrines. I think the basis of that book is for a person to gain a belief in J.Smith, and then when they do, they continue on to read the books written by J.Smith after the Book of Mormon, and it is in those later books that the doctrines of the church are found.
@IExposeMormonism I am totally against J.Smith. I was just saying how people come to believe in him first and then their religion 2nd. I, myself did not gain any belief in J.S. after reading the B.of M., so I left the church. I did gain a faith in Jesus Christ and the bible, however, and do believe in the gospel as told by Jesus.
@sbhdawn I did sorta get off track from your comment. the more one independently investigates JSmith the more one should see his odd magical side. Most of us our led on our investigations. Perhaps JS is the replacement saint/theology for Paul? He certainly replaces all of 2000yrs of the bible.
@mjmullen96 Well, of course LDS is Mormon. There's zillions proofs for the word Mormon as synonymous with LDS. Even books by Mormons on Mormonism.The Mountain Meadows Massacre is what caused me to start investigating Mormonism. Not a pretty picture. The deeper you dig into the MMM the less pretty the picture is. The "U.S." didn't attack Mormons. Certain individuals did. But these people had nothing to do with any attack on any Mormon. Their "guilt" was being from Arkansas at an unpleasant time
Mormonism is a dangerous cult. MMM proves it as does their secret political campaigns while saying they do not get involved in politics. IF they were effective we would still all be polygamists and living communism. Thank a Mormon today for being retarded, if they had brains we might all be screwed.
How do YOU know, SAPPYo, how the MMM families feel? You their spokesperson, you arrogant excuse for a human being. All you do here, sappo, is perform public masturbation with your load of self-congratulatory arrogance, ignorance, hypocracy and haughtiness.
I'd tell you to repent, but, alas, you're WAY beyond help. Give it a try anyway. Couldn't hurt...
No I'm not haughty, or arrogant. You are though. Condescending with your comments though. You might as well been a trigger man. and a killer yourself.
LDSapologist71 is a child molester and diddles 10 year old boyscouts he is actually writing his bullshit from a half way house so be aware and at least keep your kids away from him
Takes one to know one, lying about people.... Your mother didn't teach you anything. I feel sorry for them... Did they have any other children that lived?
Perhaps they're chained up in the basement like you ought to be. Don't worry, I'll buy more Alpo stock so you can be fed better. haha!
@LDSapologist71 Listen you have hurt many people with both your comments and videos on line. I have read many who tell the same story. You do that to support the false teachings of your church. Yet, we have gathered enough information now to submit it to an LDS regional representative to deal with you from above. You'll be lucky if they get to you first.
@LDSapologist71 How can the MMM be a "Local Affair" when George A Smith was sent by Briggy on a mission to preach along the Southern Route. And this in front of the Wagon Train. He preached, as is well attested, violence against these people. GAS man wouldn't fart without "The Boss's" permission. Then we have over 55 Endowment Mormons with guns. More. Then we have a cover-up. All of this takes time and planning and prayer circles as JD Lee tells us. Not a Local Affair. It involved Hierarchy
N.A. Maxwell said, "why, really why do the scorners mock and ridicule the member of this church? Seemingly within their deep disinterest, there is interest. Just hearing your comments tells me you're desperately trying to convince yourself it's false. In reality that's your only hope in this life and the next. Face it, if this is the true church of Jesus Christ, the great reward that this church offers will never be yours."
Walk TALL brother SAPPO!! You're on the Mormon god's side NOW!!
You should think about getting a T shirt made that says "I *heart* Mountain Meadows MURDERERS"!! That way you can STRUT your selfrighteousness in front of more people (instead of the few on YT)--showing your support for YOUR BROTHERS in the true gospel, who took it upon themselves to offer 120 UN-armed men, women and children, a SAFE PASSAGE--only to gun them all down at point blank range. Yep!
Because the TRUTH is the MORMON LEADERS didn't do it, nor did they condone it. It was a few citizens of Cedar City who were being threatened by the incoming people. I believe their words were "We're going to run you out of this land just like you were out of Missouri."
Brigham sent out word that nothing was to be done. Please understand I and the rest of us LDS know what you are doing. To frame Brigham, but he is completely not involved.
I'm doing my duty right now exposing you for what you are. Posing as something that you aren't. The LDS leadership, especially under the last prophet Hinkley plenty and enough was done to satisfy the families of the perpretrated, and they have let it rest, but Anti-mormon hypocrits like you refuse to.
If you can pose as an apologist and yet can't/WON'T answer the simplest questions, or who when he DOES dare to respond, comes off as the idiot-savant, bastard son of TTommy "hillbilly"
Monson, one who can't compose a complete sentence, a REAL rebel without a CLUE!--who's the REAL poser here?
Fuck off you moron, LDS defender of bullshit faith. You sick fuck! You defend killing children. I'd personally skull fuck you if you weren't such a pussy afraid to expose who you are.
Even the Hinkster admitted that the story is unclear about who did what, but this apology (or one like it) is just what is needed to heal the wounds of MMM.
I think it would satisfy the families of the victims as well as the guilt Mormons feel
(except for you, Sapologist--and a few other LDS I could name here). It does NOT admit guilt. Even IF the Church and Briggie have clean hands in the matter, it's STILL THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
This would be an acceptable apology by Prez Monson to the MMM relatives:
Dear friends. IF Brigham Young or ANY of the 12 Apostles of that time had ANYTHING to do with this dispicable and horrific action at Mountain Meadows in 1857, either having prior knowledge of the event or a part in the planning of it, we express our heart felt sorrow, to you families of the survivors as well as to the victims, and would plead with you to forgive our brothers, the perpetrators.
And to forgive us, WE who, over the years have attempted to hide this tragedy by denying it ever happened, and our vain attempts to cover it up by blaming the whole of it on the Indian tribes in the area. We ask that you forgive Brigham Young for his abysmal treatment of the survivors and the monument at the site that he ordered torn down--twice.
If there is ANYTHING we can do to make up, as much as humanly possible, for your loss, we, again, place ourselves, our Church, our all, at your mercy. May God forgive us this trespass...
Well it's true, they bash and talk trash and make false truths and lies about us. The facts still remain facts. Jesus Christ started a church with a Foundation of Apostles with authority to recieve the revelation to lead His sheep. But that foundation was killed off and the Apostacy begun.
Joseph Smith restrored the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Lord Commanded it to be so. The restoration is biblical.
In order to show SOME integrity, LDSapologisp, prove the "facts" you claim. Also show us evidence the "false truths" (what in the name of God is a '"false truth"??), you say we say about Mormonism. Grow some pelotas, songron!
"A friend lays down his life for his friends.. there is no greater love. To care enough that other innocent souls do not further get manipulated and taken over by an evil cult."
Yes I'm sure that is exactly what Jesus meant.
If you are so interested in what Jesus Christ meant, why don't you start by looking at the history of your own church, and the millions they butchered in the name of God, and their "evil cult."
And don't hide behind the eastern Orthodoxy, it's all the same.
mormons are sick bastards. after hearing about this and seeing september dawn, i will never look at mormons the same way again. they deserve to be treated like shit
@ridesnwbrds34 Now, now, just the ones defending it. There are plenty of those. But Many Mormons know nothing of the crime. But reading any truthful account should send one running. Even Juanita Brooks, who did the best she could and believing some absurd lies against the wagon train, exposes so much Mormon Violence and such a taste for the occult with Massacre Prayer Circles and invocations to their gods. Violent Oaths. Scary sick violent.
Mormons in general do not know the truth. I was a mormon until I was 44. I left after going to the MMM then reading about it. Perhaps something good can come from the MMM if Mormons learn about the truth and leave their religion. I know I am very thankful for happening upon the site
Nice general comment. I have been to the site & studied this aweful attack. I find it hard to believe that going to this site and learning about it would in some way cause you to loose faith. Although perpetrated by Mormons (and very few Indians duped into participating) how does this reflect on the truthfulness of the Book Of Mormon, First Vision, or anything else that has to do with the Gospel? The MMM has nothing to do with the Gospel and everything to do with not following it's precepts.
To answer your question once the door is opened on Mormonism it falls like a house of cards. For instance learning JS drank alcohol , took other mens wives, married a 15 yo, ran a failed bank, used a seer stone, went to court for treasure seeking, pls go find the truth...its the same crap with every topic in Mormonsim. Horses, wheat, metal, historcity in Book of Mormon. All we end up when done examining it is our "testimony" all truth shows its false.
If you had read your real church history like the Journal of Discourses you would understand Blood Atonement and the Reformation Period under Brigham Young and not be asking such an ill informed brainwashed question. Get a wife!
@LDSapologist71 You couldn't choose a weaker platform from which to accuse....Have you received a satisfactory reply to why the Mormon Hierarchy wanted little children and women killed? Why the likes of Brigham Young had to insult the little ones? Call them names and insult the families? Isn't it enough he took for personal use the stages head carriage the ladies rode in? And all their wealth. Kidnapped the children. But had to insult them. They did Nothing. Why? Why Mormonism?
Here it is again: "...why the Mormon Hierarchy wanted little children and women killed? Why the likes of Brigham Young had to insult the little ones? Call them names and insult the families? Isn't it enough he took for personal use the stage's head carriage the ladies rode in? And all their wealth. Kidnapped the children. But had to insult them. They did Nothing. Why?
Your right LDS APOLOGIST us "anti-Mormons" are just clueless...clueless on how fucks like you can defend killing children and having a prophet that used a seer stone in his hat not to mention married little girls. Mormonism is a sick religion that is mind bending. This "stupid anti Mormon" happens to be a a 40 plus year member who left. After finding it has members like you and has a false history. Not missing my calling in the stake pres or bishopric...can finally say fuck off to u idiots
It's not that we've both not read our history it's in how we've both interpreted it. Evil or Good? Biblical history shows the fallacies of venerable people which we overlook or forgive because we believe that regardless of their faults or choices they were called of God. What you see as huge holes in Mormon history, I view as either cultural differences between then and now or things to learn from.
Here is a culteral difference FUCK OFF you sick fucking Mormon bastard who supports killing kids and fucking 14 year olds. GO dawn your sacred underwear and preach to your cult at the temple praising "Pat-Lay-Ale". People will believe anything that is proven by Mormonism!
Again you misinterpret what someone says. I have no idea how you understood what I said as the MMM being somehow "good". It was not in any way, shape or form. If this will do, although I had nothing to do with the MMM nor did any of my ancestors, but if you want to blame this horrible act on the Mormon church, as a Mormon........I'm deeply sorry. Not for the way you feel but truly sorry for what happened at the Mountain Meadows.
How ELSE is one to interpret your line "it's in how we've both interpreted it. Evil or Good?" OBVIOUSLY WE "interpret"
MMM to have been an "evil" act--leaving YOU with the ONLY OTHER viewpoint, that of it being "GOOD". IF MMM was NOT an evil action as we say, what's left?
I did NOT "misinterpret. According to you it was either EVIL or it was GOOD. We vote "EVIL". What say YOU??
It's commendable for you to feel sorrow for MMM. Since you are a member of the church/org that caused MMM to happen (if only by it's teachings of vengence), why do you feel NO responsibility to DEMAND the leaders of that org (LDS) make recompence and restitution AND a sincere apology, to the families of the victims?
STAND FOR SOMETHING, cbritton11, as Hinkley has asked of his followers.
THe ONLY way MMM will become "the past" as Hinkley HOPES it will is for the LDS Church to take responsibility. The LDS Church is the only org on earth that has in it's power to make things right with MMM families. IF enough people, including members, demand LDS, Inc. do whatever is necessary to bring closure for these people, it WILL happen.
Simply throwing money at the problem, as LDS, Inc. has done thus far, hasn't worked and will NEVER work. A simple but sincere apology to the MMM victim families is the only thing that will bring closure. Why is that too much to ask?
He blames the church for the decision made by a few people in Cedar City. He'll lie and tell you it "came from the top" but he is in fact a deciever and a liar, and I do mean 1MoMo.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
A great thing the church did to set up this memorial. The church knew it's members in Cedar City snapped and made a horrible decision after being tauted and had animals stolen from them from these Arkansas immigrants. I just read the latest book on this unfortunate event in history. The massacre at Hans mill was unfortunate to. That time the Mormons were murders. Tough times to live in those days and a sad time in mormon history.
tygamer, You are very wrong. These people took nothing from the Mormons. But the Mormons took much from the innocents. No one ion the wagon train had anything to do with Hahns Mill. None were present at Carthage for JSmiths death. Everyone there was a Freemason. everyone. No, BYoung had a month to track down any perps from then or going south, snapping the heads off of chickens, poisoning creeks with hundreds of gallons of arsenic, etc. Hamblin and Smith camped right next to them just prior
having Mormon Hierarchy in charge of MMM would be equivilant of USA setting up and maintaining the Hiroshama and Nagasaki Memorials; seems peculiar. seems disingenuous. self serving. like you are concealing something when you are the main perp' at the crime scene. "no,no, just maintaining the integrity of the scene". ON 9-25-07 more remains were found: I was there.
J.Gibbs,1910,MMM,last pg; "there is someting hidden,something mysterious and inexplicable as to the IMPELLING MOTIVE of the crime. What is it?": M'ism is an arcane materialistic magic religion. The use of seer/peep stones,urim & thummim(!)etc to obtain ends are established legal facts. see M'ism AND THE MAGIC WORLD VIEW ,D.M.Quinn for the'milk'.Motive was religious-political power,Rocky to Sierra mtns
But we all have a tendency to do evil. But this one act should serve Mormons as a reminder if they follow a man, instead of God, this is what can and does happen.
Proof of the guilt of Brigham Young is found in the book "The Mormon Mountain Meadows Massacre", historically compiled by Steven E. Farley. I recommend this book to anyone looking for the truth about this.
Oh really!!??? Then you must believe if the current prophet of the Mormon Church ordered the murder of your family members...The Mormon Church should own your family gravesite? You think the Mormon Church would care more for your love ones, than you do?
sorry to be the one to break it to you, but the guy who leads your church is not a prophet. He is an old man who has worked his way up the chain. nothing more, nothing less. and your organization is a CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT
This isn't a hidden thing of the past- is taught and spoken about. If I heard people talking/laughing at how they murdered my friends/family, I would want to kill them too. Want to be angry about a religion murdering people? Read about the Inquisitions that lasted for 500 years, est. and operated by the Vatican; or St. Bartholemeu's Massacre- Vatican STILL displays coin made to commemorate event of protestants being slaughtered in France by Catholics.
Cover up? Moron church? Every mormon ward within hundreds of miles of the site has taken a trip there to remember a horrible misunderstanding and atrocity. What are the relatives going to do with that land? Pay to have a memorial put there? Oh wait; thats right, the church already paid to have one erected there.
Thank you, thank you so very much for this clip. It is VERY touching and brought a tear to my eye and gooseflesh to my arms. As an avid student of this atrocity and its shameful cover-up, I am so glad to see that others are moved enough by the monument site to create this thoughtful video. --Tracy
This gives a nice feeling of the actual site of the Massacre. It's not easy to find because it's out in the middle of nowhere. The property is still owned by the Mormon Church.
this is very touching. would love to know more about the people as this is a haunting event in our history. check out the videos posted by micah1857 based on the new movie September Dawn.
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The leaders sent a rider to Brigham Young to ask what to do in Salt Lake. James Haslam, the rider, left on Sept. 7, a 300-mile journey. Young's return message, "In regard to the emigration trains passing through our settlements, we must not interfere with them until they are first notified to keep away. You must not meddle with them. The Indians we expect will do as they please but you should try and preserve good feelings with them." arrived two days after the massacre, September 13, 1857.
scottwins2 1 week ago
Listen To Me PLEASE, The Very Least The (LDS) Church Can Do Is Say "WE (as a collective group) Want To Apoligize For ANY PART The Church MAY Have Had". now, Where Would The Harm Be In That Statement?
The LDS FLOCK Know, WITH OUT QUESTION, That They Planned And Executed This MASSACRE And Paid The indians To Help Them!!!
100% TRUTH. Nope, They Will Not Do That (admit) Guilt, But, They Sure Did Buy Up The Land Did'nt They?
26478me 10 months ago
@26478me They didn't pay those poor Indians very much. All they got were some cows and clothes and some ammo. The Mormons took the gain and put it in the Mormon Holy Tithing House. Then sold it at auction, mostly for grain. This benefited Briggy Inc. Haight searched the bodies rather intimately:: He claimed the All the women had "The unclean disease" Guess how Haight figured that out. Yes, people in distress will put valuables in their bodies in hope of keeping something: But not in Mormonism!
IExposeMormonism 9 months ago
If the mormon church really wanted to dispel anything from the massacre to some of the beliefs on their religion, than they should stop being so secretive
blueyourmom123 1 year ago
@blueyourmom123
its a sore subject i just learned of this.. but if the u.s. would apologize for attacking us Mormons as you say then you would see the amount of massacres the "Free country" has done to us for our religion...
I think that you need to not be negative!!
mjmullen96 8 months ago
@mjmullen96 I'm not being negative, it's pretty basic knowledge mormons go through a great deal of work to keep everything in the church secret. My friend is a mormon and when she got married anyone who was not mormon was not allowed to attend the ceremony. Little things like that are what I am talking about, it seems like the church goes through quite an effort to hide so many things.
blueyourmom123 8 months ago
@mjmullen96 It's a sore subject because it was a deliberate attack on innocent people, that was ordered by people of power in the church. Please tell me what massacres have been delivered against the mormon church. The only people with any room to complain would be the people of islam.
blueyourmom123 5 months ago
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jess1up 1 year ago
What’s even more disgusting is that the Mormons bought the land as an attempt to monopolize the situation and control the damage. There is no mystery behind the massacre at Mountain Meadows! Brigham Young had been teaching the “Blood Atonement” (research) for about 4 or 5 years prior to September, 11th 1857. No doubt they thought the massacre was justified; they were sending everybody to heaven! Can you say “cult”? Mormonism is finished.
godnessdude 1 year ago
godnessdude Blood Atonement is in the Polygamy Revelation, 1843. I posted "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", 1905, by the Living Dead Mormon Prophet Joseph F Smith. It's a long story/ debate with RC Evans, a Bishop. When JFS tuned up RCE, he fled the Monster. I posted that book too, on my front page "20 years in the Mormon Church and Why I Left". Naturally the Hierarchy immediately sued him, dragged him into court, etc. I have many such stories. Some loose, some die. Some win and flee
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
This was not an act commissioned by LDS church leaders. Had the US army been able to take Brigham and the apostles over this they would have in a heart beat. It has nothing to do with the church, other than participants were members.
Fear, hatred, remorse, and trash talking mixed the deadly cocktail, just like it still does today. The ones responsible for the wrong left the church, just like anti's do today.
haidermann1 1 year ago
The church today has apologised look it up, no way do the First Presidency condone what happened. You make some highly inflammatory accusations but you need to provide some evidence on how those endowments caused the MMM. As I see it, they were a band of renegade Mormons that took it upon themselves, even the statement by John Lee cannot be totally proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
novarone72 1 year ago
It's really shocking the things people write about the Mormons, I bet they don't even know any Mormon families and are getting all their information off the anti-mormon websites. If you really wanted to know you would find a family and go to church with them instead of attacking them.
novarone72 1 year ago
who gives a fuck about the mmm anyways? your all acting like fucking babies.
flexijerdkov 1 year ago
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Trust in the word where Jesus says,
Matt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
NO OTHER CHRISTIAN SECT TEACHES THAT JOHN THE BAPTISTS HAS RETURNED.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Hail the pope of Satan haha!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
@LDSapologist71 There is no worse platform to preach Mormonism than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. It is the death knoll on Mormonism regardless how many years it takes. As sure as Adam Eve died when they ate forbidden fruit. And the fruit of Mormonism is the MMM.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism and what about the Hauns Mill massacre? I don't hear you bleating about what happened to those poor people, and children that were massacred. Where is the movie about them? Load of hypocrisy.
novarone72 1 year ago
@ I guess you'll have to do the Hauns Mill video. There are some on Youtube. But you should know the Fanchers and others had Nothing to do with Hauns Mill. No one had anything to do with J. Smiths death. None murdered Parley Pratt. BUT:: If one or ten did, would it be unfair, unkind, unreasonable to simply arrest those parties? And G.A.Smith was sent by B. Young in front of the train preaching violence. There are 2 Martial Law Dec'.Aug5 and Sept15. Mormons had time to do much more than Murder.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism it happened a long time ago by militia Mormons, renegades. So many atrocities happened in every country's history. Do we blame Mormons today for what happened? Do we blame every German for Hitler's atrocities? What purpose does it serve, but to learn from history? Many Mormons were slaughtered, tortured and raped, women and children, is there any justification for those horrors? We pray that like the holocaust, they will never be repeated.
novarone72 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism and I had nothing to do with the MMM so does that mean I am blameless? Do you want to imprison the prophet today for that crime? I mean where will it end? Shall we try every German because of what Hitler did to 6million Jews? What do you suggest? The Australian Prime minister apologised for the Stolen generation, and that is all you can do. And learn from history, isn't that more to the point?
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 As far as I'm concerned, Germany should have been dismantled in 1945. Mormonism should be illegal. Seriously. Mormonism has taken every basic belief in Christianity and turned it 180 degrees. Polygamy not Monogamy (Don't go there, 132 is fully intact and waiting it will never be renounced) Polytheism not Monotheism. Mormonism is a polytheistic religion. If you want to hear about Catholics, Jesuits, Jews and such type it in. Jews are blamed for 911 (2001). Its all out there
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism it may be all out there, but that does not mean it is true
novarone72 1 year ago
The burden is entirely on the Mormon to show the truthfulness of the accusations against these people. Your Hierarchy deprived these people of their rights and their lives. Nothing will ever excuse this mass ritual murder of an innocent people. All honest Mormon diaries and witness say these people were doing nothing. Diaries created After the Fact tell lies. Those accusing them are liars lying to conceal a lie. The truth is this: they never harmed anyone. They had no idea what was planned
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism does that make me responsible for what happened because I am a Mormon? Yes it was wrong, yes it was done by some militia Mormons, and yes it was probably covered up by the Mormon hierachy at the time but to condemn every Mormon today is like condemning every German for what Hitler did. Every nation has atrocities littered in their history, shall we condemn them all? History cannot be changed but we can learn from it. The church has apologised, get over it.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 the trouble is with anti-mormons is they go through our history and pick out all the bad stuff and then promote it in an effort to discredit the church and bring it down. I have said before many times on these threads, that you will never succeed no matter what you do or say. There are countless websites solely for this purpose, but have they succeeded? Has the church ceased to function? It never will, because it has based solidly on the gospel of Jesus Christ.
novarone72 1 year ago
I've never condemned every Mormon or any Mormon. Only those defending the MMM. And there are many. These folks had nothing to do with JS death, PP death or any other Mormon. They were set up. I focus on Mormonism, not the crimes of the Pope, Germany, etc. The Hierarchy has not apologized in any real sense. They use phrases like "close the door on the past". OK: On Mormonism, not on the MMM... I posted J F Smith,1907, Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy. These and Endowments caused the MMM
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism and you ARE condemning Mormons and Mormonism, they are one and the same you know. Why don't you take the advice of ryboi03 who left some great counsel on your channel page? It is always amusing to see all this stuff plastered on Youtube and the net trying to bring the church down. Have you succeeded with all your efforts? All your uploaded videos, how is it working for you? The church just had their 180th General Conference over 20,000 attended, I guess it aint working!
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 Mormonism is not Christian so it is condemned. Many people have had a go at Mormonism. All you can do is try and warn, show the errors. Those 20K at GC will not be enough to keep the new Hierarchy funded SLC mall from going bankrupt. If non Mormons stay out of the Babylon of the Basin it will have an impact on the new age "Holiness to the Lord" Mercantile attempt. Money and Mormism=MMM as well. It was done for gain, not revenge. They did nothing
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism you are wrong but no surprise because of the lies you tell. I believe in Jesus Christ that makes me a Christian, who are you to judge? There are over 14 million members worldwide I would say that is more than enough to not only keep that mall in existence but to also sustain the church for many decades to come. You will never succeed in bringing it down. Better man have tried and failed, it will continue to stand long after you are dead and gone.
novarone72 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism many businesses are owned by the church in SLC and Utah, the whole state was built by Mormons I don't know what you are talking about. These places also provide services for people who live there. I have a mall near me too, and thank goodness otherwise I would have to travel over 45 mins to shop, tell me you are not jealous of the church's wealth? At least we can see where the money is going. you are so obsessed with Mormons, get over it.
novarone72 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism and I thought you said you were not condemning Mormons, what a liar you are, who would believe anything you say? You cannot condemn Mormonism without condemning it's people and that is what you are doing. I am not responsible for MMM and what happened that day. The church has apologised, the Prime Minister of Austraia has apologised, the German people have apologised, what is your beef? Seriously, you have a big problem, can you even sleep at night?
novarone72 1 year ago
Not only has the Hierarchy not apologized in any real sense, they also own the MMMsite. So when some bones were found a few years ago the Hierarchy made sure they maintained their supremacy over the site by claiming some buttons and then re-interring the remains. The Hierarchy is deadly serious about keeping control of the crime scene. It is the value system in Mormonism that led to the MMM. Blood Atonement and Polygamy, the Endowments and their oaths. Remove those and the MMM isn't possible
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism that is so not true. You seem to be claiming a lot but not backing any of your claims with evidence. It is all hearsay or stuff you have gleaned from the many anti-mormon sites you can find anywhere online. MMM did not happen because of Atonement, Polygamy or the Endowments, what preposterous nonsense! But keep it up, some fools will believe you.
novarone72 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism I'd be interested to have your take on why so many Mormons were murdered, tortured and raped, women and children and run out of every state. Perhaps it was the lack of prozac or vallium or any other amphetamine in those days that would have stopped so many having phobias about the Mormons. Or maybe you could blame it on the seasons, it was colder and they needed to spill blood to keep warm........do you see how stupid your accusations are?
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 Prosaic is not amphetamine... The Mormons generally started it. Before the Boggs extermination order was the threat of extermination from Sidney Rigdon. my post of Joseph F Smith, 1907, "Blood Atonement and the Origin of Polygamy", he says JS was killed at Carthage Because of Polygamy. The P' Revelation nullifies all non Mormon Marriages and contracts. You can see how that might upset those that knew its intent. Everyone inside and outside the jail was a Freemason. Odd.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism you are really good at evading questions. Not arguing over prozac being an amphetamine, don't really care. But where you get your facts are is more of a concern. It sounds like the rantings of an ex-mormon if truth be known.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 I posted my collection of some 300 original publications. This includes 4 history of the church, one by JS. Adam-God by Tholson, JF SMith "Blood Atonement and the origin of Polygamy", Poetry of Eliza Snow, well, some 35 Pure Mormon books. And I was never Mormon. My Mom was from SLC but I was never raised Morm'. Irish Catholic. I'm going to post a video on "Nice Mormons". I've been broke down in Utah more than once and always got help right away. Not in Calif.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism where do you live?
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 I live near Auberry, Ca "Where the bones of the Mormons are scattered for miles" as frankkirkman typed to me. I didn't know! You guys are all the way up highway 49. "Mormon Bar", just south of Mariposa, for instance. (The Aikens party was from Mariposa and contemporaneous with the Fancher train. They were also killed). Well, I just received "MMM The Jenson-Morris Collection" by Turley, etc. And I have their MMM book. both useful.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism what is the fascination with MMM? It was the worst atrocity commited by Mormons in their history but it surely is not the worst that was ever commited and it is definitely not something that they are proud of. Why rake it up when they have apologised? Is not it time to learn from history and move on?
novarone72 1 year ago
Examination of the MMM shows you are wrong. I knew this going in, just from reading Juanita Brooks. The entire set up shows vast cunning. And walking into that camp with a white flag and making Freemason signs of security it just a little too un Christian. These people did nothing. No chicken-snapping, no beating up old ladies and pushing people around. No arsenic in the creek, no poisoned cows. And then there is kidnapping the children and billing the US people for it. And blaming the Indians.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism so what should be done? Are we to crucify all Mormons and their faith? What is the real reason behind your fixation with MMM? You seem to be doing a lot of the hate rhetoric but not much in the way of a reconcilatory attitude........I think there is a hidden agenda, I do not think it is all about MMM truth be known.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 someone who researches a subject is "fixated"? Are Juanita Brooks and Walker-Turley-Leonard fixated? They worked on it longer than I. My agenda is to drive Mormons away from Mormonism and towards real Christianity. But at least away from Mormonism. The MMM is an apex in the expression of Mormonism. It seeks to bind the world to it and to take the property and rights from all non Mormons. JS more than once said the wealth of the gentiles was the inheritance of the saints.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism you will never drive Mormons away from their faith, that is a rather arrogant statement. People like you will never succeed, if it were so Mormonism would have ended long ago, but Im sorry to be the one to tell you, but it will still be here long after you are dead and gone.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 The internet and boobtube have done wonders in exposing the truth not only in Mormonism but other lies. Like 911. No, I mean 2001. We are so malleable it's shameful. Did you know it wasn't diaper headed troglodytes with rusty razors running amuk on planes? And it wasn't the Fanchers. No, it was "U.S." And just as Briggy and Co. did 911 so did George Bush. And as one lied so did the other. And neither Fancher nor OBL did 911. And long after we are gone the truth will be found..
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism the truth is here now, you just can't see it.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 Up early? I have the truth. It is the books of those fleeing Mormonism. I can't cant them all but there must be 50 of them. Then I have some 30 real Mormon books. Then I have the researchers books. Anyone looking at the Abraham Papyrus must come away open mouthed. And then there is the true story of how Rigdon stole Spauldings book. And how Hurlburt stole the other "Manuscript Story" and made sure it would add confusion. The Hawaii manuscript is Red Herring. Very Tricky stuff.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism no up late it's 1am Monday morning here, and I'm figuring all those books were written by people ex-mormons, its true what they say, people leave the church but they can't leave it alone. Nice song, poignant.
novarone72 1 year ago
@novarone72 People leaving Mormonism, esp' 19thC Mormonism, want the world know and they want to put some hurt on it for all the harm it did them. Fanny Stenhouse wasn't lying and neither were the Wards, Nettie Smith, Wife 19, (Brigham Young's true beauty) and other victims of Polygamy. Then there are the guys. Non Mormon and Mormon males hate being killed by Mormons. Beats me, but that's what they say.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism I was raised Mormon, but left the church after reading the Book of Mormon for the first time, and found none of the church's doctrines in it, and some passages even condemmed some of their doctrines. I think the basis of that book is for a person to gain a belief in J.Smith, and then when they do, they continue on to read the books written by J.Smith after the Book of Mormon, and it is in those later books that the doctrines of the church are found.
sbhdawn 1 year ago
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IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism I am totally against J.Smith. I was just saying how people come to believe in him first and then their religion 2nd. I, myself did not gain any belief in J.S. after reading the B.of M., so I left the church. I did gain a faith in Jesus Christ and the bible, however, and do believe in the gospel as told by Jesus.
sbhdawn 1 year ago
@sbhdawn I did sorta get off track from your comment. the more one independently investigates JSmith the more one should see his odd magical side. Most of us our led on our investigations. Perhaps JS is the replacement saint/theology for Paul? He certainly replaces all of 2000yrs of the bible.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
@IExposeMormonism
what is mormanism. because if you knew anything of this religion then you would know that we are LDS not Mormon.
mjmullen96 8 months ago
@mjmullen96 Well, of course LDS is Mormon. There's zillions proofs for the word Mormon as synonymous with LDS. Even books by Mormons on Mormonism.The Mountain Meadows Massacre is what caused me to start investigating Mormonism. Not a pretty picture. The deeper you dig into the MMM the less pretty the picture is. The "U.S." didn't attack Mormons. Certain individuals did. But these people had nothing to do with any attack on any Mormon. Their "guilt" was being from Arkansas at an unpleasant time
IExposeMormonism 8 months ago
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Balla1965 1 year ago
Yeah riiiiight. Moron!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Balla1965
You're just a Moron, and a liar! Go crawl back under your rock, moron!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
@Balla1965 You two should watch the video and then you and LDSA71 can act like this elsewhere.
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
Hail the pope of Satan Haha!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Balla the ignoramus moron. haha
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Mormonism is a dangerous cult. MMM proves it as does their secret political campaigns while saying they do not get involved in politics. IF they were effective we would still all be polygamists and living communism. Thank a Mormon today for being retarded, if they had brains we might all be screwed.
Balla1965 2 years ago
How do YOU know, SAPPYo, how the MMM families feel? You their spokesperson, you arrogant excuse for a human being. All you do here, sappo, is perform public masturbation with your load of self-congratulatory arrogance, ignorance, hypocracy and haughtiness.
I'd tell you to repent, but, alas, you're WAY beyond help. Give it a try anyway. Couldn't hurt...
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
@1MoNoMo
No I'm not haughty, or arrogant. You are though. Condescending with your comments though. You might as well been a trigger man. and a killer yourself.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Yeah. That's what alcoholics say, "I'm not an alcoholic". DENIAL!
You mindless zealots are all the same...
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
LDSapologist71 is a child molester and diddles 10 year old boyscouts he is actually writing his bullshit from a half way house so be aware and at least keep your kids away from him
Balla1965 1 year ago
haha!
Balla what are you some kind of sicko?
Takes one to know one, lying about people.... Your mother didn't teach you anything. I feel sorry for them... Did they have any other children that lived?
Perhaps they're chained up in the basement like you ought to be. Don't worry, I'll buy more Alpo stock so you can be fed better. haha!
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
@LDSapologist71 Listen you have hurt many people with both your comments and videos on line. I have read many who tell the same story. You do that to support the false teachings of your church. Yet, we have gathered enough information now to submit it to an LDS regional representative to deal with you from above. You'll be lucky if they get to you first.
Balla1965 1 year ago
@Balla the liar.
Don't make me laugh.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
@LDSapologist71 How can the MMM be a "Local Affair" when George A Smith was sent by Briggy on a mission to preach along the Southern Route. And this in front of the Wagon Train. He preached, as is well attested, violence against these people. GAS man wouldn't fart without "The Boss's" permission. Then we have over 55 Endowment Mormons with guns. More. Then we have a cover-up. All of this takes time and planning and prayer circles as JD Lee tells us. Not a Local Affair. It involved Hierarchy
IExposeMormonism 1 year ago
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N.A. Maxwell said, "why, really why do the scorners mock and ridicule the member of this church? Seemingly within their deep disinterest, there is interest. Just hearing your comments tells me you're desperately trying to convince yourself it's false. In reality that's your only hope in this life and the next. Face it, if this is the true church of Jesus Christ, the great reward that this church offers will never be yours."
Even I feel bad for you.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
Walk TALL brother SAPPO!! You're on the Mormon god's side NOW!!
You should think about getting a T shirt made that says "I *heart* Mountain Meadows MURDERERS"!! That way you can STRUT your selfrighteousness in front of more people (instead of the few on YT)--showing your support for YOUR BROTHERS in the true gospel, who took it upon themselves to offer 120 UN-armed men, women and children, a SAFE PASSAGE--only to gun them all down at point blank range. Yep!
Walk TALL, be PROUD, SAPO!!
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Because the TRUTH is the MORMON LEADERS didn't do it, nor did they condone it. It was a few citizens of Cedar City who were being threatened by the incoming people. I believe their words were "We're going to run you out of this land just like you were out of Missouri."
Brigham sent out word that nothing was to be done. Please understand I and the rest of us LDS know what you are doing. To frame Brigham, but he is completely not involved.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Hey, spasmologist. Did you not read the BIG "IF" at the beginning??
As in "IF" the LDS Church DID have anything/something to do with it--here's our apology...
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
THEY DIDN'T
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Then why object to this "apology"?--as it admits to NO GUILT--of Briggie OR the F***edUp Mormon Church.
You don't read english too well do you SAPO?
What is it about your posts here that gives me the eerie feeling that if you'd been at MMM you too would have done "YOUR DUTY"?
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
@1MoNoMo
I'm doing my duty right now exposing you for what you are. Posing as something that you aren't. The LDS leadership, especially under the last prophet Hinkley plenty and enough was done to satisfy the families of the perpretrated, and they have let it rest, but Anti-mormon hypocrits like you refuse to.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
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1MoNoMo 2 years ago
If you can pose as an apologist and yet can't/WON'T answer the simplest questions, or who when he DOES dare to respond, comes off as the idiot-savant, bastard son of TTommy "hillbilly"
Monson, one who can't compose a complete sentence, a REAL rebel without a CLUE!--who's the REAL poser here?
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
You fucking idiot! Your clueless!
Balla1965 2 years ago
@Balla1965
LOL nah, you're clueless!
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
Fuck off you moron, LDS defender of bullshit faith. You sick fuck! You defend killing children. I'd personally skull fuck you if you weren't such a pussy afraid to expose who you are.
Balla1965 2 years ago
Some think that the letter you refer to was an intentional effort to draw off ANY and all criticism from Brig and LDS, Inc.
In todays parlance it's called "plausable deniability". In other words, "Cover Your Ass"!
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Even the Hinkster admitted that the story is unclear about who did what, but this apology (or one like it) is just what is needed to heal the wounds of MMM.
I think it would satisfy the families of the victims as well as the guilt Mormons feel
(except for you, Sapologist--and a few other LDS I could name here). It does NOT admit guilt. Even IF the Church and Briggie have clean hands in the matter, it's STILL THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
This would be an acceptable apology by Prez Monson to the MMM relatives:
Dear friends. IF Brigham Young or ANY of the 12 Apostles of that time had ANYTHING to do with this dispicable and horrific action at Mountain Meadows in 1857, either having prior knowledge of the event or a part in the planning of it, we express our heart felt sorrow, to you families of the survivors as well as to the victims, and would plead with you to forgive our brothers, the perpetrators.
(cont)
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
And to forgive us, WE who, over the years have attempted to hide this tragedy by denying it ever happened, and our vain attempts to cover it up by blaming the whole of it on the Indian tribes in the area. We ask that you forgive Brigham Young for his abysmal treatment of the survivors and the monument at the site that he ordered torn down--twice.
(cont)
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Again, forgive us, we plead, for ignoring for so long your need for closure--it was done out of ignorance and shame.
I am here, today, after all these 153 years, to fully accept the blame for any part the LDS Church had in this appalling tragedy.
We place ourselves at your tender mercies and beg for your forgiveness.
[That Monson should get ON HIS KNEES at this point would not be too much to ask!]
(continuing apology)
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
If there is ANYTHING we can do to make up, as much as humanly possible, for your loss, we, again, place ourselves, our Church, our all, at your mercy. May God forgive us this trespass...
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
@1MoNoMo
Give up your crusade of unrighteousness, and may the LORD forgive you of your lies.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
@1MoNoMo You are such a hypocrit.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
And your such a brain washed fucking idiot! Go drink the cool-aid dipshit
Balla1965 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Well it's true, they bash and talk trash and make false truths and lies about us. The facts still remain facts. Jesus Christ started a church with a Foundation of Apostles with authority to recieve the revelation to lead His sheep. But that foundation was killed off and the Apostacy begun.
Joseph Smith restrored the gospel of Jesus Christ and the Lord Commanded it to be so. The restoration is biblical.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
In order to show SOME integrity, LDSapologisp, prove the "facts" you claim. Also show us evidence the "false truths" (what in the name of God is a '"false truth"??), you say we say about Mormonism. Grow some pelotas, songron!
22EBola22 2 years ago
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"A friend lays down his life for his friends.. there is no greater love. To care enough that other innocent souls do not further get manipulated and taken over by an evil cult."
Yes I'm sure that is exactly what Jesus meant.
If you are so interested in what Jesus Christ meant, why don't you start by looking at the history of your own church, and the millions they butchered in the name of God, and their "evil cult."
And don't hide behind the eastern Orthodoxy, it's all the same.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
mormons are sick bastards. after hearing about this and seeing september dawn, i will never look at mormons the same way again. they deserve to be treated like shit
ridesnwbrds34 2 years ago
@ridesnwbrds34 Now, now, just the ones defending it. There are plenty of those. But Many Mormons know nothing of the crime. But reading any truthful account should send one running. Even Juanita Brooks, who did the best she could and believing some absurd lies against the wagon train, exposes so much Mormon Violence and such a taste for the occult with Massacre Prayer Circles and invocations to their gods. Violent Oaths. Scary sick violent.
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Mormons in general do not know the truth. I was a mormon until I was 44. I left after going to the MMM then reading about it. Perhaps something good can come from the MMM if Mormons learn about the truth and leave their religion. I know I am very thankful for happening upon the site
Balla1965 2 years ago
Nice general comment. I have been to the site & studied this aweful attack. I find it hard to believe that going to this site and learning about it would in some way cause you to loose faith. Although perpetrated by Mormons (and very few Indians duped into participating) how does this reflect on the truthfulness of the Book Of Mormon, First Vision, or anything else that has to do with the Gospel? The MMM has nothing to do with the Gospel and everything to do with not following it's precepts.
cbritton11 2 years ago 3
To answer your question once the door is opened on Mormonism it falls like a house of cards. For instance learning JS drank alcohol , took other mens wives, married a 15 yo, ran a failed bank, used a seer stone, went to court for treasure seeking, pls go find the truth...its the same crap with every topic in Mormonsim. Horses, wheat, metal, historcity in Book of Mormon. All we end up when done examining it is our "testimony" all truth shows its false.
Balla1965 2 years ago
If you had read your real church history like the Journal of Discourses you would understand Blood Atonement and the Reformation Period under Brigham Young and not be asking such an ill informed brainwashed question. Get a wife!
Balla1965 2 years ago
Waka waka waka!
stupid anti-mormons don't have a clue.
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
@LDSapologist71 You couldn't choose a weaker platform from which to accuse....Have you received a satisfactory reply to why the Mormon Hierarchy wanted little children and women killed? Why the likes of Brigham Young had to insult the little ones? Call them names and insult the families? Isn't it enough he took for personal use the stages head carriage the ladies rode in? And all their wealth. Kidnapped the children. But had to insult them. They did Nothing. Why? Why Mormonism?
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
And you DO, LDSapeolo?? Then answer
IExposeMormonisms challenge to you.
Here it is again: "...why the Mormon Hierarchy wanted little children and women killed? Why the likes of Brigham Young had to insult the little ones? Call them names and insult the families? Isn't it enough he took for personal use the stage's head carriage the ladies rode in? And all their wealth. Kidnapped the children. But had to insult them. They did Nothing. Why?
Well said, IExposeMos! Answer it LDSapologist!!!
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Your right LDS APOLOGIST us "anti-Mormons" are just clueless...clueless on how fucks like you can defend killing children and having a prophet that used a seer stone in his hat not to mention married little girls. Mormonism is a sick religion that is mind bending. This "stupid anti Mormon" happens to be a a 40 plus year member who left. After finding it has members like you and has a false history. Not missing my calling in the stake pres or bishopric...can finally say fuck off to u idiots
Balla1965 2 years ago
It's not that we've both not read our history it's in how we've both interpreted it. Evil or Good? Biblical history shows the fallacies of venerable people which we overlook or forgive because we believe that regardless of their faults or choices they were called of God. What you see as huge holes in Mormon history, I view as either cultural differences between then and now or things to learn from.
cbritton11 2 years ago
Here is a culteral difference FUCK OFF you sick fucking Mormon bastard who supports killing kids and fucking 14 year olds. GO dawn your sacred underwear and preach to your cult at the temple praising "Pat-Lay-Ale". People will believe anything that is proven by Mormonism!
Balla1965 2 years ago
cbritton11.
Pray tell, HOW do you "interpret" as "GOOD", anything about MMM and the 100 years or so, of LYING ABOUT IT, and blaming the Indians.
No, what you are doing is making EXCUSES for the WORST massacre on american soil, EVER.
If you REALLY cared, you'd demand a real apology from from LDS, Inc.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
1MoMo,
Again you misinterpret what someone says. I have no idea how you understood what I said as the MMM being somehow "good". It was not in any way, shape or form. If this will do, although I had nothing to do with the MMM nor did any of my ancestors, but if you want to blame this horrible act on the Mormon church, as a Mormon........I'm deeply sorry. Not for the way you feel but truly sorry for what happened at the Mountain Meadows.
God bless.
cbritton11 2 years ago
How ELSE is one to interpret your line "it's in how we've both interpreted it. Evil or Good?" OBVIOUSLY WE "interpret"
MMM to have been an "evil" act--leaving YOU with the ONLY OTHER viewpoint, that of it being "GOOD". IF MMM was NOT an evil action as we say, what's left?
I did NOT "misinterpret. According to you it was either EVIL or it was GOOD. We vote "EVIL". What say YOU??
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
It's commendable for you to feel sorrow for MMM. Since you are a member of the church/org that caused MMM to happen (if only by it's teachings of vengence), why do you feel NO responsibility to DEMAND the leaders of that org (LDS) make recompence and restitution AND a sincere apology, to the families of the victims?
STAND FOR SOMETHING, cbritton11, as Hinkley has asked of his followers.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
THe ONLY way MMM will become "the past" as Hinkley HOPES it will is for the LDS Church to take responsibility. The LDS Church is the only org on earth that has in it's power to make things right with MMM families. IF enough people, including members, demand LDS, Inc. do whatever is necessary to bring closure for these people, it WILL happen.
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
Simply throwing money at the problem, as LDS, Inc. has done thus far, hasn't worked and will NEVER work. A simple but sincere apology to the MMM victim families is the only thing that will bring closure. Why is that too much to ask?
1MoNoMo 2 years ago
@cbritton
He blames the church for the decision made by a few people in Cedar City. He'll lie and tell you it "came from the top" but he is in fact a deciever and a liar, and I do mean 1MoMo.
LDSapologist71 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
A great thing the church did to set up this memorial. The church knew it's members in Cedar City snapped and made a horrible decision after being tauted and had animals stolen from them from these Arkansas immigrants. I just read the latest book on this unfortunate event in history. The massacre at Hans mill was unfortunate to. That time the Mormons were murders. Tough times to live in those days and a sad time in mormon history.
tygamer 3 years ago
tygamer, You are very wrong. These people took nothing from the Mormons. But the Mormons took much from the innocents. No one ion the wagon train had anything to do with Hahns Mill. None were present at Carthage for JSmiths death. Everyone there was a Freemason. everyone. No, BYoung had a month to track down any perps from then or going south, snapping the heads off of chickens, poisoning creeks with hundreds of gallons of arsenic, etc. Hamblin and Smith camped right next to them just prior
IExposeMormonism 3 years ago 4
you try to justify it. you are a sick fuck.
bmflix 2 years ago
Great video & awesome choice of music!
Never forget 9/11.
holidays61397 3 years ago 2
Yes, I liked the music. I wanted to sit at
the Meadows and meditate in about 1978, all night, my husband thought I was nuts. A vigil
might be nice.
DadsBlueAngel 3 years ago
having Mormon Hierarchy in charge of MMM would be equivilant of USA setting up and maintaining the Hiroshama and Nagasaki Memorials; seems peculiar. seems disingenuous. self serving. like you are concealing something when you are the main perp' at the crime scene. "no,no, just maintaining the integrity of the scene". ON 9-25-07 more remains were found: I was there.
hypnotstcollector 4 years ago 10
That is it in a nutshell! That is some scary shit.
lisadockUTUBE 4 years ago
And one day God will take care of the Mormon church?
rustymente 4 years ago 2
Its not bad to commemorate something!!!!
Are aint commemorating yhe death of your love ones????
Madzel22 4 years ago
J.Gibbs,1910,MMM,last pg; "there is someting hidden,something mysterious and inexplicable as to the IMPELLING MOTIVE of the crime. What is it?": M'ism is an arcane materialistic magic religion. The use of seer/peep stones,urim & thummim(!)etc to obtain ends are established legal facts. see M'ism AND THE MAGIC WORLD VIEW ,D.M.Quinn for the'milk'.Motive was religious-political power,Rocky to Sierra mtns
hypnotstcollector 4 years ago
Mormons own Grocery Outlets and they are evil people.
rustymente 4 years ago
prove it if it is evil
Madzel22 4 years ago
I wouldn't call Mormons evil, this act was evil.
But we all have a tendency to do evil. But this one act should serve Mormons as a reminder if they follow a man, instead of God, this is what can and does happen.
Thou shalt not kill. No matter who orders it.
God bless you all.
justcary 3 years ago
Proof of the guilt of Brigham Young is found in the book "The Mormon Mountain Meadows Massacre", historically compiled by Steven E. Farley. I recommend this book to anyone looking for the truth about this.
rustymente 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This land should never be owned by the people from Arkansas. the Mormon church will take better care of it than anybody else.
ichbinarbeiten 4 years ago
Oh really!!??? Then you must believe if the current prophet of the Mormon Church ordered the murder of your family members...The Mormon Church should own your family gravesite? You think the Mormon Church would care more for your love ones, than you do?
nauvoochristian 4 years ago
sorry to be the one to break it to you, but the guy who leads your church is not a prophet. He is an old man who has worked his way up the chain. nothing more, nothing less. and your organization is a CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT
bmflix 2 years ago 3
Nice video, and music to go with!
Thank-You,
rustymente 4 years ago
SWSimpson? when does the killing stop?
rustymente 4 years ago
Proof of the guilt of Brigham Young is found in the book "The Mormon Mountain Meadows Massacre" compiled by Steven E. Farley.
I recommend this book to anyone looking for the truth about this.
rustymente 4 years ago
This isn't a hidden thing of the past- is taught and spoken about. If I heard people talking/laughing at how they murdered my friends/family, I would want to kill them too. Want to be angry about a religion murdering people? Read about the Inquisitions that lasted for 500 years, est. and operated by the Vatican; or St. Bartholemeu's Massacre- Vatican STILL displays coin made to commemorate event of protestants being slaughtered in France by Catholics.
SWSimpson 4 years ago
Cover up? Moron church? Every mormon ward within hundreds of miles of the site has taken a trip there to remember a horrible misunderstanding and atrocity. What are the relatives going to do with that land? Pay to have a memorial put there? Oh wait; thats right, the church already paid to have one erected there.
seanromz15 4 years ago
you are as full of crap as your so called church you should be ashamed of your self and your made up mormonism
rockhound362002 3 years ago
Thank you, thank you so very much for this clip. It is VERY touching and brought a tear to my eye and gooseflesh to my arms. As an avid student of this atrocity and its shameful cover-up, I am so glad to see that others are moved enough by the monument site to create this thoughtful video. --Tracy
TracyCD911 4 years ago
And why doesn't the moron church turn this property over to the relatives of these people?
rustymente 4 years ago
good question
pedrocanjump2 4 years ago
This gives a nice feeling of the actual site of the Massacre. It's not easy to find because it's out in the middle of nowhere. The property is still owned by the Mormon Church.
provoguy57 4 years ago
Would also love to know about the people who are featured in this clip. Great song selection too!!
circlewagons 4 years ago
this is very touching. would love to know more about the people as this is a haunting event in our history. check out the videos posted by micah1857 based on the new movie September Dawn.
micah1857 4 years ago