You have got to be kidding me. I don't know who you are trying to kid... Why would you make up a lie about "recalling past lives first hand"? All you have Is THIS life, my friend. Creation is etched in everything around you. Look around.
Pt. 1 I apologize if I misunderstood definitions. But, my supposition remains. Natural selection is not the engine that drives evolution, rather it is SOUL Itself, and It's own EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS that drives the evolution of species. When a child is 3 the parents give it tricycle, at 6 the child is given a bicycle. Was the tricycle a dead-end..a mistake? No. Rather it suited the child (SOUL) at that particular stage of development. Was the Apostle Paul born an adult?
Pt. 2 No. Paul started out as an infant but grew over many years into an adult, and then, an ILLUMINATED ADULT. Now imagine SOUL starting out in an infant stage and thru many lifetimes developing thru the stages of mineral, plant, animal, human and then ILLUMINATED HUMAN stage. GOD cannot create a SOUL in the adult stage, anymore than a person can be born an adult. SOUL has to GROW into the HIGHER STATES. Therefore, different bodies are provided at the various stages of SOUL'S development.
pt. 3...Too many 'religious leaders' have really no notion of what SOUL is or how CONSCIOUSNESS manifests. Can't dogs and cats show the same feelings as humans..love..fear..jealousy..sadness..? Why, because they are SOUL, too. It's just they aren't as far along as SOUL'S in human form, so they don't form religions. I have recalled countless past lives from primative to present. I have exp. this evolvement first hand. I have also escorted deceased pets to the other side. All life is SOUL.
I believe Hanegraff doesn't understand Theistic Evolution.. It is the EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. When SOUL, a Unit of DIVINE AWARENESS comes into this world, IT begins organizing atoms (Mineral Consciousness), then it Quantum Leaps into Plant Consciousness expanding from one celled plants to trees, then, animal consciousness, then Human Consciousness from primative to modern to ENLIGHTENED. This isn't done by Random Selection, rather by careful DIVINE DESIGN. It is the TRUE PURPOSE OF LIFE.
I believe you're confused on the difference between theistic evolution and cosmic evolution. Theistic evolution is the belief that God used evolution to bring about the PHYSICAL universe, and is supported by the gap theory. Cosmic evolution is what you are referring to, and I hope you consider the moral implications of what you are claiming before you truly believe it.
and tell Hank to come on here and debate us too. We both want to talk with him. Seriously. We'll even go on his show, if he's got the guts, which I seriously doubt he does.
Lightmane321, Maybe you should start listening to his past shows, you might find he has already covered whatever issue you have questions about. Hank Hanegraaff allows people to call into The Bible Answer Man radio show all the time. If this is something you are interested in doing, by all means go and do it.
If you wanna play the 'verse' game, we can do that all day.
The bible supports Calvinism: It's very easy to make a case for it. I can also make a case for Armenianism and can argue against both very easily. Mormonism: no problem
Jehovah Witnesses: They already do.
7th Day Adv.? Yep
How about the rapture? Which version do you want me to show you is in the bible. I can do it with all 4 and argue against each one.
God, knowing what would happen, creates us anyways and let's us fall into sin and then sends us Jesus (Thank God), but only if we believe on Him will we be saved (great). But if we don't, WE'LL FREAKIN BURN IN HELL FOR ALL FREAKIN ETERNITY!!!!!
So if you wanna continue this little debate we're having, go right ahead and show me how I'm wrong and how it's perfectly 'just' and 'loving' of God to do this. Explain again to me how these sinners will be HAPPIER IN HELL (HOLY CRAP!!!) and would be MISERABLE IN HEAVEN. ROFL!!!
Please... explain that one to me again, but this time, meditate on what you're saying, and then, if you can still click 'post comment', let me just say that there's something seriously wrong with you.
How dare you! I don't appreciate your name calling. You came over here, asking for help, telling me that you are a Christian. You said needed help finding answers and more so want to help your friend who has lost his faith. BUT what you really want to do is play a double teaming game with your friend for the soul reason to belittle and frustrate Christians. And you think there is something seriously wrong with me!? Why are you doing this?
Both you and your friend can spend your whole life railing against God, thinking yourselves to be some kind of great debaters, by saying that nothing is good enough for you to except as evidence for ANYTHING.
You have become preachers for Satan, going door to door calling God a monster! Are you so callus that you don't understand the pain you cause people like myself, that love the Lord, to hear you call Him the names you do?
What do you call a god who would create a place called HELL... the most horrible place one can imagine, knowing FULL WELL that the vast majority of mankind would end up there for all eternity.
And all He did to save us was send us Jesus, knowing that this act would MOSTLY FAIL.
What a plan by your god. He saved, let's see, how many souls? 5%... 10%... maybe 20%. So God's plan was to save a small minority and send everyone else to hell for all eternity.
Again you called yourself a Christian, but I doubt you have studied what the fundamentals of the Christian doctrine are. Your comment demonstrates you have no discernment over which doctrines are in house debates between Christians but will not divide over, and which ones are so far from the basics that as Christians we would be called to part ways over them.
You have built the foundation of your beliefs on shifting sand, not on scripture but on whatever feels good to you at the moment.
In addition to the evolution debate, are there any christians out there who can debate whether or not christianity grew out of paganism? My friend, a former christian turned atheist says that's the reality. Can anyone prove him wrong? Please let me know. He even doubts whether or not Jesus even existed as a historical figure. We're debating this on another video on youtube where ravi zacharias talks about hell, which neither of us believe is eternal. Feel free to debate us on that too.
so are you up for debating my friend who was a christian but is now an atheist and claims that it's much more likely that Jesus is a myth and that christianity was made up and formed from paganism?
I'm trying to find just 1 christian who can debate him. I'm a christian. I started debating him just so people could see his arguments and hope that someone would jump in. 1 did and he destroyed his arguments too.
Lightmane321, I read about 60 of the comments your friend, rcarrion4jc made on Ravi's video. The whole of his arguement is his quoteing the 2nd half of Zeitgeist, like it is holy scripture, then saying the BIble is just lie....and he wins? I find it amazing that all of a sudden there is so much "detailed" information about Pagan myths yet where is the sacred writings? They don't have anything. Nothing can even come close to what the Bible has when it comes to historical evidence.
In fact, according to him religious ideas such as the virgin birth of Jesus Christ are merely barrowed from ancient pagan mystery religions, such as Krishna of India, Mithras of Greece, and Horus of Egypt. Well, is that true? Did Christianity borrow from ancient pagan mystery religions?
The truth of the matter is this; Krishna was not born of a virgin. Krishna was born according to that mythology to a mother who had seven previous sons, hardly a virgin.
Mithras was born of a rock, well maybe the rock was a virgin, and we got to give Maher the benefit of the doubt. In terms of Horus, Isis is said to have had intercourse with Osiris after he had been cut into fourteen pieces and his reproductive organs were swallowed by a fish; again, hardly a virgin birth account like the virgin birth account in Scripture.
Stories of gods having sexual intercourse with women, such as the sun god Apollo becoming a snake and impregnated the mother of Augustus Caesar, hardly parallel the virgin birth account. Moreover, given the strict Monotheistic view of the New Testament authors it should stretch credulity beyond the breaking point to suppose they borrowed from pagan mythology; especially mythologies extolling the sexual exploits of pagan gods.
It has become all too common for people to buy into what has been well described as a unique brand of fundamentalism. A brand of fundamentalism that values rhetoric and emotional stereotypes over reason and evidential substance. Those who suppose that the virgin birth is mythology would be well served to consider defensible argument rather than uncritically swallowing dogmatic assertions. Dogmatic assertions are exactly what you get in Religulous, not defensible arguments.
have u read Robert Price or Earl Doherty or Asharia S?
Just wondering. I've only skimmed them briefly. I've sent my friend a link to this sight. I don't know if he'll want to engage you here. He's pretty busy, and taking on another christian might be asking too much of him. The sight you can come to, if you'd like, is where Ravi Zacharias talks about Lazarus & the Rich Man. Just type in Ravi Hell and go to the first video. There's a lot of posts there from him though. Just so you know.
the thing that's funny is, if you're right then how come every time someone tries to debate him, they end up with no answers and can't overcome his arguments? I mean, you make it sound like it's just obvious that he's wrong. If so then in truth, you should have no problem debating him as I'm sure you'll be able to answer any of his questions & overcome his arguments. If that's true, then great. I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Maybe Hank would come on too? If so, cool.
There will be a Day of Judgment when all people will face God. Those who are not covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will be cast out into hell where they will undergo eternal punishment. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46). In this verse, the same word "eternal" is used to describe the punishment of the wicked as well as the eternal life of the believer. The punishment is endless as is the eternal life of the believer.
Holy Crap! Are you sure that's what the bible says? Rats. I thought that was just christian propaganda. Who knew.
Seriously though, if you want to believe that God is actually capable of punishing billions of souls, let alone just one, for all freaking eternity, then believe what you want. I won't bother to take that verse literally, despite the 'same word' argument of yours. When one looks at the reality of what eternal hell actually teaches, one realizes that God then, is a monster
but let's say you're right. Okay. Please explain to me how that is JUST. How is it JUST to NEVER STOP PUNISHING SINNERS? If I spanked my kid and then never stopped spanking him, what would you say about me? Would you say I was a monster and cruel, etc...?
Why would a holy, good, & loving God create such a place, knowing full well that BILLIONS of souls would spend all eternity there? That makes God more evil than the devil. Makes me wonder where this teaching actually came from.
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt (Dan. 12:2)
The horrors of hell are such that they cause us instinctively to recoil in disbelief and doubt; yet, there are compelling reasons that should cause us to erase such doubt from our minds. First, Christ, the Creator of the cosmos, clearly communicated hells irrevocable reality. In fact, He spent more time talking about hell than He did about heaven.
Hank tried to make this case. I had to pull off the road before I crashed. Your logic here is insane.
So in heaven people are stripped of their freedom and forced to worship God? If you say no, but that the unsaved would be, let me say that again... HUH???
If God punishes Hitler for eternity, then God IS NOT JUST!!! How you don't see how sick & evil such a punishment would be, even for Hitler. This God of yours makes Hitler look like a nun. He's even more evil than Satan.
Your idea that God would force sinners to live in heaven is laughable. Now listen here you sinners, you're gonna live here whether you want to or not and you're gonna like it.
Sinners: Hell no dude. We want to burn in fire for all freakin eternity and be in torment and suffer and be punished. That would be so cool. Please let us go to hell, God.
God: Hell no. You're gonna live here with us. I won't let you go to hell.
Now I don't know exactly how God will punish sinners, because concerning doctrines, the bible is rarely consistent, hence the different denominations.
But I'll give you a much better possible scenario.
People who die unsaved will stand before God on judgement day 'in their sins' and God will pour out His wrath on them (punish them with perfect justice). But because He's not a sick bastard, He won't continue to punish them forever.
They will be saved just as we were, for we're no better.
well if that's true, then it really doesn't matter where I go, for if I end up in hell, that would be better than heaven for me and if I end up in heaven, that would be better than hell for me.
So I guess Satan is going somewhere that's better than heaven. he'll be happier there huh?
Really? You want to continue with this logic of yours?
while I like Hank in a lot of ways, what Hank doesn't understand, and apparently you don't either, is that he's an idiot like us. When he figures that out, let me know
WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL! "fire" Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41 "everlasting fire" Matt 18:8, 25:41 "eternal damnation" Mark 3:29 "hell fire" Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47 "damnation" Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47 "damnation of hell" Matt 23:33 "resurrection of damnation" John 5:29 "furnace of fire" Matt 13:42, 50 "the fire that never shall be quenched" Mark 9:43, 45 "the fire is not quenched" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
You may want to believe that hell is not eternal, but how do you back that up? What scripture are you useing to back up your belief? I you are making it up... what is the point?
You are trying to make a case that God will pour out His wrath on "judgement day" and Then all will see that hell is not the place to be, we change their minds and want to go to heaven??? Your foundation for this idea does not have any biblical backing. Why did God send His Son, Jesus to be the payment for our sins? What you are failing to understand it that our sins against a eternal God are eternal and there for we are deserving of everlasting punishment. God provided that payment for us.
Look what you just said. Our sins against an eternal God are eternal.
No they're not. We didn't sin eternally. We sinned in a finite space & time and your God will never stop punishing the unrepentant and you call this justice. That's not justice. Your God makes Hitler look like a nun. Every verse you quoted about hell has already been addressed by universalists. The reality is that hell was translated from 4 different words, all with different meanings and you take it all to mean a
literal place where people will be trapped for all eternity. Then to justify it, you claim that it'll be better for them there and they would hate Heaven. That's so laughable, it's insane. The reality is that you believe that God will punish the unsaved for all eternity. Good jews, muslims, agnostics, hindus, buddhists, and even christians who weren't saved, will all go to hell forever and they'll be happier there than in heaven. You claim this is just. It's not. It's sick & cruel.
You have no answers for what happens to those who never heard (there's MILLIONS) and what about when children die (heaven or hell and why). A jewish girl lives a good life. She loves God but doesn't believe in Jesus. Another girl believes & is saved, but then falls into all kinds of sins. According to you, A goes to hell & B goes to heaven, because God is just and loving and merciful, right???
We can chose a relationship with God now, but there is nothing to indicate we have any opportunity after we have died.
God designed us from the beginning to have everlasting life, but it is because of God's mercy that He removed the tree of life so we would not be in our sinful state forever.
Keep in mind, this is about relationship with our Creator. God has given us the freewill to love Him or to reject Him. Christians willing worship God now, and we look forward to worshipping God in heaven.
In the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 57), He explicitly warned His followers more than a half-dozen times about the dangers that lead to hell. In the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 2425), He repeatedly told His followers of the judgment to come. In His famous story of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16), He graphically portrayed the finality of eternal torment in hell.
Furthermore, the concept of choice demands that we believe in hell. Without hell, there is no choice.
Without choice, heaven would not be heaven; heaven would be hell. The righteous would inherit a counterfeit heaven, and the unrighteous would be incarcerated in heaven against their wills, which would be a torture worse than hell. Imagine spending a lifetime voluntarily distanced from God only to find yourself involuntarily dragged into His loving presence for all eternity.
The alternative to hell would be worse than hell itself in that humans made in the image of God would be stripped of freedom and forced to worship God against their will.
Finally, common sense regarding justice dictates that there must be a hell. Without hell, the wrongs of Hitlers Holocaust would never be righted. Justice would be impugned if, after slaughtering six million Jews, Hitler merely died in the arms of his mistress with no eternal consequences.
The ancients knew better than to think such a thing. David knew that it might seem for a time as though the wicked prosper despite their evil deeds, but in the end justice will be served. We may wish to think that no one will go to hell, but common sense regarding justice precludes that possibility.
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Cor. 15:1-4)
Look, the problem is that evolution happened. I now believe it was the handy work of god. I would really love to debate the finer points of this topic with Mr. Hanegraaff but am not sure if it would be a useful conversation. None the less, Cheers..
robotwookie, Hank has a radio show where you can call in and ask questions. But the thing is what god is it that you believe in? The God of the Bible is very clear about the way in which He made the world.
What are finer points of the topic that you don't think Hank as covered?
Sable, thanks for the response. Well, I would say one thing, he is dead wrong on evolution and I think we should stick to that as I have not delved into his other material, so as to comment. I have been in a dilemma for some time. I have been looking for god and have thought I had found 'it'. However, there is so much baggage that comes with religion. I like a great deal about the bible but there is so much that appears to be wrong with it as I am a scientific guy. That's a good start I think..
Fair enough. Why do I believe in evolution? And why could it be in line with the bible? I'll skim over it for one comment. First, there are about 20 fields of science that match up perfectly to back evolution. Genetics being the biggest/final proof. And believing in evolution is no more unbiblical than the fact that the universe has been evolving for 13.7 billion years. God used nature since the singularity for his work. I don't think the Jews would have understood decent with mods thus Adam
Side note. I absolutely do not discount original sin as it makes perfect sense that with the last genetic changes for man (i.e., genetic change for speech etc)was made and Adam (who was a real man) did sin. This is probably the biggest hang-up for everyone: Evolution and original sin. I believe both could have happened. But, I think both sides are hung up on this stuff when the message of the scriptures is the salvation of man and gods name being vindicated...
Are you saying that it is wrong to believe that the genetic information (DNA) for a frog is only unique to the frog...and so on.
Human DNA is unique human and even science is saying we are all so closely related to all other humans. There is no evidence that DNA mutation will produce anything but disorders. Why do you prefer to believe man's word without proof over God's word?
My friend. You need to take a few things into consideration. We can talk to the potential for genetic'mutations'until we are blue in the face. The problem is that there are fossils and genetics that show what happened. The evidence is overwhelming. Do you think I want to believe in evolution? Hell no. But I cant deny evidence because it doesn't fit my worldview and nor should you. I find the likelihood of this happening as impossible. But, facts are facts. Unless you can create a testable model?
Fossils don't tell us anything about mutations, but what fossils do tell us is that these animals died and where buried rapidly and put under a lot of pressure that caused them to fossilize. Fossils are found all over the world as well as the layers of sediment. This lines up with the Biblical flood. The evidence is overwhelming but don't get that confused with how it is interpreted by evolutionist. How do you make a testable model of fossilization? ...
I find it odd that I only ever hear Christians talk about macro evolution vs micro evolution. Is it not from the scientific view only a difference of time between the two?
Is it not from this alone feasible that a population that split off into two dramatically different environments would adapt in ultimately very different directions given a few million years?
(Many such separations would likely have occurred for example would the continents splitting apart.)
Catholicism and Anglicanism, even Easter Orthodoxs have a neutral or pro positions on evolution. There are many groups that believe in ID or creationism, but the most of the people believe in Theistic Evolution.
These billions and billions and billions of years that atheistic evolutions asks us to accept is so difficult. It's almost or quite like 'faith' to me.They say Trust us..here this fossil, here's that fossil..trust us...even though we can't recreate it...you must trust us..we have more degrees than a thermometer. They want us to give them enough time so that the impossible becomes the inevitable. Although I would like to be free of God..I realise that there is something in me that is God aware.
okay, if you hate science so much go to some tribe where they put fire ants in your pants because they BELIEVE it makes you a man. Go to some tribe where you will have to walk 25 miles every week just to get 2 buckets of water. because the men "with more degrees than a thermometer" is disproving your BELIEFS to help mankind advance.
that's where you jump to baseless conclusions. People who are God aware actually embrace and love science more that u ever will. Why? the answer is obivious - God's mind did it. God exists - get over it as Yaxley234 said.
really? that's not what you were saying in the comment i posted before.
"I realise that there is something in me that is God aware. " it's human nature to believe in a higher figure that loves you. majority of 4 year olds have imaginary friends for the same reason.
"People who are God aware actually embrace and love science more that u ever will. " FYI "creation science" is not science. Evolution is science.
You embrace and love science that helps you, clean water, healthy food, modern technology, etc. However, when equally valid science comes along that disproves your ideology,You turn around and say it's wrong.
Both were found by the same process of science and to say one is wrong when it has been virtually proven is to deny logic and reason.
THeistic evolution is the greatest theory ever pertaining to us!! It is no coincidence that the basic deoxyribonucleic acid coding of all living organisms are exactly the same!!!!!!
explain how when this DNA is floating around in the evolution "soup" and the bases at cg combined with the acids amino acids it constructed and organized information when bases and acids have a reaction that scrabbles up information. Some basic dna in all living things proves a common Creator not a common orgin. cars, vans, and airplanes have common elements - tirs, motor, need for fuel but you wouldn't say the car evolved into a van that evolved into a plane
Theism - belief in the existence of a god or gods
Evolution -the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
am i the only one who doesn't see how those are contradictory?... at all??
Sorry but honestly do disagree with this Video 100%. Its taken from a Western Interpretation of Scripture and an idea of Sola Scriptura which in itself is un-Biblical. Overall I do belive in evolution and do belive it is guided by the Lord. Thank you for the response though honestly.
I am sorry and 100% was wrong words but what I was refering to the following of Sola Scriptura. It is based on an understanding of scripture and the history behind it. Its based upon the Lord Jesus christ. Scripture is one area of our worship and understanding. I do find it funny that the answers guys seem to say where the Bible allows for science to understand. They want to limit God more then Theistic Evolution allows by saying what he has done based on there own understanding. cont...
understanding. I have no problem with people beliving in Creationism but when they start to say I am not a Christian because I belive evolution is the reason is where I draw the line. I find it funny how that many (not you this is NOT directed at you sable at all) want to give science Credence by trying to show scientific "evidence" for their own beliefs yet at the same time to dismiss it when it disagrees with them. Science show the How and God is the why.
so, I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the salvation of a theistic evolutionist. If a christian believes that God may have used evolution to create humans, is this christian a true christian, or are they pretty much not getting into heaven? Ultimately what do you think will happen to them? I'm just looking for honest opinions cuz I'm curious....
Atmanatoh, Jesus is the key to our Salvation. Jesus talks about the beginning, Jesus is the Truth. As a Christian you have a resoniblilty to learn more about God and how He wants us to live our life. My fear for Christians that hold up what man says about how the world was created over the word of God, is that it weaken their faith and find themselves in difficult spot when they are tested.
k, but, if jesus is the key to our salvation, and a person has that key (i.e. they love jesus and accept Him as Lord and Saviour), my question is: will God keep a person out of heaven just because they didnt understand the mechanics of how He created us (days vs years)? Is it enough to know just that he created us or are we expected to know the particulars of how God works? in john 3:16 does "whomsoever" refer only to those who get the sciency part of creation right?
Of corse God wouldn't keep a person out of heaven for not understanding the mechanics of how He created the universe. This is a miracle, like Jesus raising from the dead. How can we understand the mechanics of a miracle? What I do know about the Theory of Evolution doesn't line up with what I can understand, plants and animals have offspring after their own kind, just like it says in the Bible. The God I serve is the Creator of the universe.
I would say after there own kind is a misleading statement. That would me there are no changes in the structer or genetic makeup of the offspring. We know this isn't true..there are mutation and variations. These small almost invisible changes are what drive evolution.
There are variations and I have no problem seeing micro-evolution. Mutations are bad and can not be a driving force behind the Theory of Evolution. I have not heard of any examples of positive mutations.
Actually there are many expamples of postive mutations. Mutation just means a change not always postive or negative..sometimes its just neutral. Such as a mutation within the cells of certain people that make them immune to the Aids virus...Micro evolution IS evolution. Micro is Macro just with a extremly large amount of time.
ok, well, i understand that you don't think that the theory of evolution has merit, but in theistic evolutionists have jesus in their hearts, but disagree with you about the process by which God created humans, then what is the purpose of arguing with them about it if the important thing is if they have accepted jesus as their lord and saviour? I can understand why a christian would be alarmed if a person was trying to equate evolution with atheism, but if that's not the case, then why argue?
Let me put the question back to you, if you believe in Jesus, why are you rejecting what he said?
How did sin enter the world? Why do you have issue with God creating the world the way He said He did it? Have you deeply studied creation? Do you understand that a evolutionary world view contradicts a Christian world view?
hi, i don't know if my last post worked or not, cuz I've been have trouble posting things. But do you mind if i send you a message to discuss this? theres not alot of room here. I've never actually discussed with anyone my views and it's kinda fun. Usually I stay away from the debate cuz i meet such angry people, but you seem pleasant enough. :)
In other words..STOP BUILDING CHURCHES!!!!! god himself is asking you! And with the money you save buy some books and take some classes taught by real professors...and maybe, in time, nonsense like this video will be a distant bad memory.
Bring up 9/11, the Holocaust, and the needless suffering of many innocent people across the globe, and his point on theistic evolution falls apart.
I think we all are able to see by the events around us, that God is not always loving or/and that God follows the policy of "the ends justify the means."
Even literalists like Hanegraaff would have to contend to this, because Jesus died a painfully slow death for our sins.
I think maybe the next major survival challenge in the evolution of our species may be to overcome this type of brainwashed, arrogant garbage. What's going to happen to us if too many people think this ignoramus is correct and we shouldn't be worried about or believe in climate change or pollution?
Compare the initial quote "The struggle for life, and elimination of the weak is a horrible process" with the quote from Acts "and he determined the times set for them and the exact places they should live". The universe *is* arbitrary, natural disasters occur & innocent people die. The struggle for life is a reality, think of how many people on earth starve or die from disease, even little children. Hanegraaff says it's not arbitrary, then just what is God "determining"? Directionless judgment?
Just because we became what we are by evolution, that does not mean we have to live our lives by it. We are not innocent we know what the results of our actions are, therefor we can develop morality based on that. We are as much beyond the Bible as we are beyond evoluitonary presures so we are able to develope our own morality without the bible as well.
John Stott in his Understanding the Bible says that he sees no problem with evolution. Alister McGrath, Ernest Lucas et al have also underscored theistic evolution as a more plausible explanation.
Btw, evolutionary biology is just limited to Biology, it's not a worldview. With due respect, I must say bro Hanegraaff seems to be unaware of the writings of Evangelical scholars who underscores theistic evolution.
The Bible talks about the Blind leading the Blind it does not mean the "physical blind leading other physical blind ." That doesn't make sense. Jesus was not talking about the "physical blind." He was referring to the "spiritual blind" leading the "spiritual blind." Those that were blind to spiritual truth were leading others that were blind to spiritual truth.
Same thing when Jesus said "Let the dead bury the dead." He wasnt talking about physical death. He was talking about spiritual death.
what do you do with Bruce Waltke, Derrek Kidner, Henri Blocher, and other evangelical old testament commentators who don't hold to any JEDP hypothesis yet state that they don't have any problem if God wanted to use evolution. I do think intelligent design is a good idea by the way, but I do believe in common descent.
it just a declaration of order!! like "Be fruitful and multiply". It doesn't speak of special circumstances, just very general ones. We could all confirm that things reproduce "according to our kind". Of course. Evolutionists don't deny that! It doesn't speak at all of the process God might have used to create. I'm sorry Hannagraff. I like your Orthodox Preterism, but your anti-theistic evolution comments don't cut it for me.
More and more evangelical Christians are getting away from Hannagraff's view. William Lane Craig, and Paul Copan, who are verrrry conservative evangelicals, don't see common descent or evolution as impossible under an inerrent Evangelical framework. The claim that somehow the "kinds" language in genesis means that God forbid creatures under certain limited circumstances to produce a different species. All the "kinds" language means is that rabbits don't produce horses, just very general!
I, as a Christian, could care less what Athiests think. The only problem I have with them is that they are always putting God and Creation down. Always thinking its a "delusion" and that there is no such thing and that all christians are just plain idiots that cant think. If you want to be a Athiest, go ahead. I just am not pleased when you make fun of my religion because you dont think its true.
As a scientist and a Christian, I really like the theory of theistic evolution. I'm not sure that it is true, but I like it. I get so frustrated with Christians who insist that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that the earth and everything in it was literally created in 6 days. However, I am equally frustrated with scientists who claim that belief in evolution requires atheism. It certainly does not. This view of Hank Hanegraaff is not particularly convincing to me.
It is fair to say that any intelligent person who believes in something, has the ability to present those beliefs in a logical facade capable of influencing simpler minds.
From the arguments presented in this video the intelligence of its author is questionable.
Any EXPERIMENTATION will require OBSERVATION in order to arrive to the CONCLUSION.
Unfortunately, no intelligent human being can be able to exist and observe for at least 2 hundred years to perform such method. For we have to start from the very beginning of time to the very end. We can only keep on formulating hypothesis but without a solid conclusion.
We observe evolution taking place all the time. Evolution requires two different factors: Natural Selection and mutation. We have observed both of these things in the real world, so therefore we have observed evolution.
THEISTIC EVOLUTION IS NOT POSSIBLE. The Bible explicitly says that God created the heavens and the earth, etc. and everything during the first five days and MAN on the sixth day. As far as i know, the word "yom" was used in the passages earliest manuscripts available. YOM means 24-hour day. Also, why would God wait around a couple billion years before he created his most prized posession?
'Create' does not mean 'poof'. It simply states that God made us. It doesn't explain HOW.
Why would God wait six days to create everything? Why not six seconds? Is God less powerful because he didn't do it in six seconds? Of course not. That argument fails.
Untrue. First, natural selection and adaptation are easily observed. This is referred to as MICRO-evolution. No one disputes that. Second, mutations are generally seen as harmful, and often result in a LOSS of information. Those undergoing these things do not become more complex and eventually grow into a new species, AKA MACRO-evolution, or Darwinism.
Mutations are not always harmful. For example, bacteria mutated to eat nylon. There are manh more examples of this.
Show me the barrier that stops mutations from adding up and not resulting in macro evolution. By the way, marcoevolution is at or above the species level, and speciation has been observed. Thus, macro evolution HAS been directly observed.
These arguments are based on a complete lack of information on biology and DNA, especially when it says all DNA's are uniquely programmed. NOT THE CASE. We know for a fact there is what is called "junk DNA" which exist for no apparent reason in different species, indicating common ancestors, etc. It's time for us believers to trace back to St Augustine in a correct interpretation of the different kinds of texts in the Bible and an unbiased look at the evidence from science.
Why are we having a debate regarding evolution in America? 90% of Americans have some belief in a theism, particularly Christianity. Members of the National Academy of Sciences, in a recent poll, show that only 7% of them are theists, 72% are atheists and 21% are agnostic. These people are the professionals in the scientific community. If you want to learn to walk on water, talk to a minister. If you want to learn about evolution, talk to a biologist.
according to there own "kinds"! really? guess thats why a sheep an goat can produce an offspring or a cammel an lamma.or horse an Zebra..I guess thats why Chimps share 98% of identical DNA with human lol bullshit Creationist..its said bring all creatures that breath through there nose on the ark? well how could a whale be on the ark? why a whale can live in water but not breathe in it lol? intellegent design or God have a since of irony
the offspring of a horse and a Zebra or a donkey are always sterile...it's the end of the line. I have hunted to see if goats and sheep can breed and I have not found any information on it. My neighbor has a female goat in with a full male sheep and so far she is not getting pregant. If you think chimps could produce offspring with humans...it would have been done by now...this is natural limitions that were set up when God created them.
Sheep an Goat can reproduce! look harder there is this thing called "Google" type in "hybrids"..Lions an Tigers can reproduce also so can other big cats!! KillerWhales an Dolphins..that "kind" statements make me wonder how unique were these creatures when they were made why even allow they to produce a offspring! an because humans an Chimps aint reproduce as yet doesnt mean that they cant why dont u sex chimp an find out LOL!! still anyone with eyes can see humans an Chimps have alot in common
These "hybrids" that you are talking about are STERILE. Ligers are sterile. By the way as far as us having so much in common with chimps...you would never be able to have one live in your house! Think about.
check this, the snake in the Garden did the Bible give "exact detail" how it looked? No!! but we still know snakes are reptiles now! God cursed the snake to move on its belly..so wouldnt it have been doin that before when he created snakes? soo why couldnt the snake evolved over time into a creature (reptile) that can move without legs!
sterile or not the point I'm making is, that they are not soo unique that they are not genetically compatible..even humans be sterile soo what does that prove? apes can walk up right also just not as well as we can! NOW DONT GET IT TWISTED I'm not saying we evolved from apes u see today I'm saying we share a common ancestor many scientific evidence proves it if u look for it, an I'm not talking fossil record!
iight a common desiger that used evolution! lol sorry but Creationism even makes God's word sound like a fairy tale! other than your own opinion an belifes there is no reason why could could not use evolution! nothing is to much for God!
I don't see animal changing into differant kinds and there is no proof they can. God made it all in 6 days, that was his first mircle. We have a historical lineage of people back to Adam.
stop avoiding questions lol...no proof really? lol u aint want see the proof.. Frogs have lungs! tadpoles have gills lol.. insides of a whale's fliper/fin have bones that only land creatures have! they look like fish but dont swim like um! how u know it was done in 6days? yeah historical lineage an Adamn had ancestors Adam was the 1st modern man!
did the Bible give "exact detail" how the snake looked? No!! but we still know snakes are reptiles now! God cursed the snake to move on its belly..so wouldnt it have been doin that before when he created snakes? soo why couldnt the snake evolved over time into a creature (reptile) that can move without legs! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT SEE IT DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT THERE!
@younneek...Harold Camping was wrong twice..he had a stroke..i heard he repented...no man knows the hour..study ur Word!
I21GenieLee 2 months ago
@moranplano
You have got to be kidding me. I don't know who you are trying to kid... Why would you make up a lie about "recalling past lives first hand"? All you have Is THIS life, my friend. Creation is etched in everything around you. Look around.
Djflatbush 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 7 months ago
Pt. 1 I apologize if I misunderstood definitions. But, my supposition remains. Natural selection is not the engine that drives evolution, rather it is SOUL Itself, and It's own EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS that drives the evolution of species. When a child is 3 the parents give it tricycle, at 6 the child is given a bicycle. Was the tricycle a dead-end..a mistake? No. Rather it suited the child (SOUL) at that particular stage of development. Was the Apostle Paul born an adult?
moranplano 1 year ago
Pt. 2 No. Paul started out as an infant but grew over many years into an adult, and then, an ILLUMINATED ADULT. Now imagine SOUL starting out in an infant stage and thru many lifetimes developing thru the stages of mineral, plant, animal, human and then ILLUMINATED HUMAN stage. GOD cannot create a SOUL in the adult stage, anymore than a person can be born an adult. SOUL has to GROW into the HIGHER STATES. Therefore, different bodies are provided at the various stages of SOUL'S development.
moranplano 1 year ago
pt. 3...Too many 'religious leaders' have really no notion of what SOUL is or how CONSCIOUSNESS manifests. Can't dogs and cats show the same feelings as humans..love..fear..jealousy..sadness..? Why, because they are SOUL, too. It's just they aren't as far along as SOUL'S in human form, so they don't form religions. I have recalled countless past lives from primative to present. I have exp. this evolvement first hand. I have also escorted deceased pets to the other side. All life is SOUL.
moranplano 1 year ago
I believe Hanegraff doesn't understand Theistic Evolution.. It is the EVOLUTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS. When SOUL, a Unit of DIVINE AWARENESS comes into this world, IT begins organizing atoms (Mineral Consciousness), then it Quantum Leaps into Plant Consciousness expanding from one celled plants to trees, then, animal consciousness, then Human Consciousness from primative to modern to ENLIGHTENED. This isn't done by Random Selection, rather by careful DIVINE DESIGN. It is the TRUE PURPOSE OF LIFE.
moranplano 1 year ago
@moranplano
I believe you're confused on the difference between theistic evolution and cosmic evolution. Theistic evolution is the belief that God used evolution to bring about the PHYSICAL universe, and is supported by the gap theory. Cosmic evolution is what you are referring to, and I hope you consider the moral implications of what you are claiming before you truly believe it.
MyLilPwnU 1 year ago
@sablechicken,
Both you and Hank Hanegraaff confuse the flesh with the spirit.
Drregaleagle 1 year ago
How do you figure that?
sablechicken 1 year ago
@sablechicken,
Well, the theory of evolution is purely material. It says nothing about the soul. Scripture says our bodies come from dust.
Drregaleagle 1 year ago
Sablechicken read all your comments and all i can say keep up the good fight like apostle Paul did
Best wishes for the new year in Christ Jesus
BornSinners 2 years ago
and tell Hank to come on here and debate us too. We both want to talk with him. Seriously. We'll even go on his show, if he's got the guts, which I seriously doubt he does.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Lightmane321, Maybe you should start listening to his past shows, you might find he has already covered whatever issue you have questions about. Hank Hanegraaff allows people to call into The Bible Answer Man radio show all the time. If this is something you are interested in doing, by all means go and do it.
sablechicken 2 years ago
If you wanna play the 'verse' game, we can do that all day.
The bible supports Calvinism: It's very easy to make a case for it. I can also make a case for Armenianism and can argue against both very easily. Mormonism: no problem
Jehovah Witnesses: They already do.
7th Day Adv.? Yep
How about the rapture? Which version do you want me to show you is in the bible. I can do it with all 4 and argue against each one.
SO WHAT??
BIG FREAKING DEAL!!!
If God sends people to hell, that sucks
Lightmane321 2 years ago
God, knowing what would happen, creates us anyways and let's us fall into sin and then sends us Jesus (Thank God), but only if we believe on Him will we be saved (great). But if we don't, WE'LL FREAKIN BURN IN HELL FOR ALL FREAKIN ETERNITY!!!!!
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME????
HOW, HOW, HOW IS THAT JUST???!!!!!!
IT'S NOT!!! IT'S CRUEL, EVIL, SICK, & INSANE!!!!!!!
AND FREAKING RETARDED!!!!!
What a freaking asshole to do that to around 90% of all freaking humanity. Give me a freaking break!
Lightmane321 2 years ago
So if you wanna continue this little debate we're having, go right ahead and show me how I'm wrong and how it's perfectly 'just' and 'loving' of God to do this. Explain again to me how these sinners will be HAPPIER IN HELL (HOLY CRAP!!!) and would be MISERABLE IN HEAVEN. ROFL!!!
Please... explain that one to me again, but this time, meditate on what you're saying, and then, if you can still click 'post comment', let me just say that there's something seriously wrong with you.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Lightmane321,
How dare you! I don't appreciate your name calling. You came over here, asking for help, telling me that you are a Christian. You said needed help finding answers and more so want to help your friend who has lost his faith. BUT what you really want to do is play a double teaming game with your friend for the soul reason to belittle and frustrate Christians. And you think there is something seriously wrong with me!? Why are you doing this?
sablechicken 2 years ago
Lightmane321,
Both you and your friend can spend your whole life railing against God, thinking yourselves to be some kind of great debaters, by saying that nothing is good enough for you to except as evidence for ANYTHING.
You have become preachers for Satan, going door to door calling God a monster! Are you so callus that you don't understand the pain you cause people like myself, that love the Lord, to hear you call Him the names you do?
sablechicken 2 years ago
gee, you're right sable. I certainly shouldn't say such things about God, especially when they cause people like you 'pain'.
but feel free to say to me that I'm a preacher of satan, going door to door calling God a monster.
Hey Sable: What do you call a god who commands the MURDER OF BABIES AND THE STONING OF WOMEN who were found to not be virgins on their wedding night?
Do you call that god GOOD?
Do you call him JUST?
You're right. I should apologize for calling him a monster
Lightmane321 2 years ago
What do you call a god who would create a place called HELL... the most horrible place one can imagine, knowing FULL WELL that the vast majority of mankind would end up there for all eternity.
And all He did to save us was send us Jesus, knowing that this act would MOSTLY FAIL.
What a plan by your god. He saved, let's see, how many souls? 5%... 10%... maybe 20%. So God's plan was to save a small minority and send everyone else to hell for all eternity.
and you call this JUST???
Lightmane321 2 years ago
You know what the God I believe in did? You can read about Him in the bible too.
He said. As in Adam ALL DIE!!!
So in Christ shall ALL BE MADE ALIVE!!!
A&E's sins were imputed to me. Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. That act is also imputed to me.
Thank God. What Mercy! What Grace! What Love! What Joy! What Hope! What Salvation!
Repent and believe and you will be saved.
Believe not, and you will stand before Him, in your sins.
Thank God Jesus died for them.
Thank God
Lightmane321 2 years ago
HELL? Sure, if that's what God needs to do, then I say, AMEN!!!
However... know this.
God doesn't MURDER BABIES
God doesn't STONE WOMEN
God doesn't PUNISH SINNERS FOREVER
You know why?
Because that's not JUST. That's sick, cruel, disgusting, horrible, & pure evil.
If God does those things, then Lucifer was RIGHT to rebel and I'll join him.
Say what you want about me.
If you can live in Heaven with that God, go ahead, but if I were you... I'd watch my back... & check for spears
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Again you called yourself a Christian, but I doubt you have studied what the fundamentals of the Christian doctrine are. Your comment demonstrates you have no discernment over which doctrines are in house debates between Christians but will not divide over, and which ones are so far from the basics that as Christians we would be called to part ways over them.
You have built the foundation of your beliefs on shifting sand, not on scripture but on whatever feels good to you at the moment.
sablechicken 2 years ago
In addition to the evolution debate, are there any christians out there who can debate whether or not christianity grew out of paganism? My friend, a former christian turned atheist says that's the reality. Can anyone prove him wrong? Please let me know. He even doubts whether or not Jesus even existed as a historical figure. We're debating this on another video on youtube where ravi zacharias talks about hell, which neither of us believe is eternal. Feel free to debate us on that too.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Paganism was a problem not only in the time of the early church but the Old Testament as well...it is a problem today.
sablechicken 2 years ago
so are you up for debating my friend who was a christian but is now an atheist and claims that it's much more likely that Jesus is a myth and that christianity was made up and formed from paganism?
I'm trying to find just 1 christian who can debate him. I'm a christian. I started debating him just so people could see his arguments and hope that someone would jump in. 1 did and he destroyed his arguments too.
Anyone? go to 'ravi hell' first video.
His name is rcarrion4jc
How about Hank?
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Is Hank available? Or Lee Strobel? Or Ravi Zacharias? Or R.C. Sproul? Or... ANYONE???
Is there anyone who can provide evidence/proof that he's wrong?
I'm 100% sincere. No sarcasm intended.
Please help.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
watch?v=_QAhrC3nG5E
Zeitgeist's Claims Debunked (1 of 2)
sablechicken 2 years ago
Lightmane321, I read about 60 of the comments your friend, rcarrion4jc made on Ravi's video. The whole of his arguement is his quoteing the 2nd half of Zeitgeist, like it is holy scripture, then saying the BIble is just lie....and he wins? I find it amazing that all of a sudden there is so much "detailed" information about Pagan myths yet where is the sacred writings? They don't have anything. Nothing can even come close to what the Bible has when it comes to historical evidence.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Quoting from Hank's blog on this topic,
In fact, according to him religious ideas such as the virgin birth of Jesus Christ are merely barrowed from ancient pagan mystery religions, such as Krishna of India, Mithras of Greece, and Horus of Egypt. Well, is that true? Did Christianity borrow from ancient pagan mystery religions?
The truth of the matter is this; Krishna was not born of a virgin. Krishna was born according to that mythology to a mother who had seven previous sons, hardly a virgin.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Mithras was born of a rock, well maybe the rock was a virgin, and we got to give Maher the benefit of the doubt. In terms of Horus, Isis is said to have had intercourse with Osiris after he had been cut into fourteen pieces and his reproductive organs were swallowed by a fish; again, hardly a virgin birth account like the virgin birth account in Scripture.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Stories of gods having sexual intercourse with women, such as the sun god Apollo becoming a snake and impregnated the mother of Augustus Caesar, hardly parallel the virgin birth account. Moreover, given the strict Monotheistic view of the New Testament authors it should stretch credulity beyond the breaking point to suppose they borrowed from pagan mythology; especially mythologies extolling the sexual exploits of pagan gods.
sablechicken 2 years ago
It has become all too common for people to buy into what has been well described as a unique brand of fundamentalism. A brand of fundamentalism that values rhetoric and emotional stereotypes over reason and evidential substance. Those who suppose that the virgin birth is mythology would be well served to consider defensible argument rather than uncritically swallowing dogmatic assertions. Dogmatic assertions are exactly what you get in Religulous, not defensible arguments.
sablechicken 2 years ago
have u read Robert Price or Earl Doherty or Asharia S?
Just wondering. I've only skimmed them briefly. I've sent my friend a link to this sight. I don't know if he'll want to engage you here. He's pretty busy, and taking on another christian might be asking too much of him. The sight you can come to, if you'd like, is where Ravi Zacharias talks about Lazarus & the Rich Man. Just type in Ravi Hell and go to the first video. There's a lot of posts there from him though. Just so you know.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Lightmane321 Robert Price or Earl Doherty are just going to add to the confusion. Don't waste your time with them.
Your friend rcarrion4jcis part of Obscurantism.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Obscurantism???
So I take it that you're familiar with Price, Doherty, & Asharia.
I have a feeling my friend might just like to debate you with comments like these.
Are you up for the task? If not, do you know someone who is?
I just want to find 1 christian who can overcome his arguments. Haven't found 1 yet... not 1.
Here's hoping that you have enough knowledge to debate him, cause I sure don't... & I'm purty smart... LOL
Lightmane321 2 years ago
the thing that's funny is, if you're right then how come every time someone tries to debate him, they end up with no answers and can't overcome his arguments? I mean, you make it sound like it's just obvious that he's wrong. If so then in truth, you should have no problem debating him as I'm sure you'll be able to answer any of his questions & overcome his arguments. If that's true, then great. I look forward to hearing what you have to say. Maybe Hank would come on too? If so, cool.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Ah... obscurantism: opposed to new ideas.
are you kidding me?
christianity suffers from obscurantism, as do most all religions.
My friend is anything but an obscurantist. He welcomes them, as do I.
I say that hell isn't eternal and that the bible appears to NOT be inerrant, but if you want to hold to obscurantism, that's fine.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
There will be a Day of Judgment when all people will face God. Those who are not covered by the sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross will be cast out into hell where they will undergo eternal punishment. "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matt. 25:46). In this verse, the same word "eternal" is used to describe the punishment of the wicked as well as the eternal life of the believer. The punishment is endless as is the eternal life of the believer.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Holy Crap! Are you sure that's what the bible says? Rats. I thought that was just christian propaganda. Who knew.
Seriously though, if you want to believe that God is actually capable of punishing billions of souls, let alone just one, for all freaking eternity, then believe what you want. I won't bother to take that verse literally, despite the 'same word' argument of yours. When one looks at the reality of what eternal hell actually teaches, one realizes that God then, is a monster
Lightmane321 2 years ago
but let's say you're right. Okay. Please explain to me how that is JUST. How is it JUST to NEVER STOP PUNISHING SINNERS? If I spanked my kid and then never stopped spanking him, what would you say about me? Would you say I was a monster and cruel, etc...?
Why would a holy, good, & loving God create such a place, knowing full well that BILLIONS of souls would spend all eternity there? That makes God more evil than the devil. Makes me wonder where this teaching actually came from.
hmmm...
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt (Dan. 12:2)
The horrors of hell are such that they cause us instinctively to recoil in disbelief and doubt; yet, there are compelling reasons that should cause us to erase such doubt from our minds. First, Christ, the Creator of the cosmos, clearly communicated hells irrevocable reality. In fact, He spent more time talking about hell than He did about heaven.
sablechicken 2 years ago
You've been brainwashed by Hank. He did not spend more time talking about hell. How do I know this? Because there's 4 words that were translated hell.
then you said this little diddy:
"We may wish to think that no one will go to hell, but common sense regarding justice precludes that possibility"
along with a bunch of other nonsense.
If you think that eternal hell is JUST then you're morally bankrupt.
The idea that heaven would be worse for sinners than hell is hilarious. I love how
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Hank tried to make this case. I had to pull off the road before I crashed. Your logic here is insane.
So in heaven people are stripped of their freedom and forced to worship God? If you say no, but that the unsaved would be, let me say that again... HUH???
If God punishes Hitler for eternity, then God IS NOT JUST!!! How you don't see how sick & evil such a punishment would be, even for Hitler. This God of yours makes Hitler look like a nun. He's even more evil than Satan.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Your idea that God would force sinners to live in heaven is laughable. Now listen here you sinners, you're gonna live here whether you want to or not and you're gonna like it.
Sinners: Hell no dude. We want to burn in fire for all freakin eternity and be in torment and suffer and be punished. That would be so cool. Please let us go to hell, God.
God: Hell no. You're gonna live here with us. I won't let you go to hell.
Sinners: Dam it!!!!! You bastard.
God: I forgive you for that
Lightmane321 2 years ago
Now I don't know exactly how God will punish sinners, because concerning doctrines, the bible is rarely consistent, hence the different denominations.
But I'll give you a much better possible scenario.
People who die unsaved will stand before God on judgement day 'in their sins' and God will pour out His wrath on them (punish them with perfect justice). But because He's not a sick bastard, He won't continue to punish them forever.
They will be saved just as we were, for we're no better.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
could I be wrong? sure. Maybe some won't repent and will continue in 'hell' (whether literal or a metaphor, I know not)
Tell me something. If one of your family members goes to hell, will you be okay with that?
Could you live in heaven knowing that they'll be in hell FOREVER? How would that be heaven?
Do you think people in hell will be happy?
If so, then fine, but then why repent and be saved? If heaven would be worse for sinners, then you're saying it's better for them to go to hell
Lightmane321 2 years ago
well if that's true, then it really doesn't matter where I go, for if I end up in hell, that would be better than heaven for me and if I end up in heaven, that would be better than hell for me.
So I guess Satan is going somewhere that's better than heaven. he'll be happier there huh?
Really? You want to continue with this logic of yours?
Lightmane321 2 years ago
while I like Hank in a lot of ways, what Hank doesn't understand, and apparently you don't either, is that he's an idiot like us. When he figures that out, let me know
Lightmane321 2 years ago
sablechicken 2 years ago
"Where their worm dieth not" Mark 9:44, 46, 48
"wailing and gnashing of teeth" Matt 13:42, 50
"weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30
"torments" Luke 16:23
"tormented in this flame" Luke 16:24
"place of torment" Luke 16:28
"outer darkness" Matt 8:12, 22:13
"everlasting punishment" Matt 25:46
You may want to believe that hell is not eternal, but how do you back that up? What scripture are you useing to back up your belief? I you are making it up... what is the point?
sablechicken 2 years ago
You are trying to make a case that God will pour out His wrath on "judgement day" and Then all will see that hell is not the place to be, we change their minds and want to go to heaven??? Your foundation for this idea does not have any biblical backing. Why did God send His Son, Jesus to be the payment for our sins? What you are failing to understand it that our sins against a eternal God are eternal and there for we are deserving of everlasting punishment. God provided that payment for us.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Look what you just said. Our sins against an eternal God are eternal.
No they're not. We didn't sin eternally. We sinned in a finite space & time and your God will never stop punishing the unrepentant and you call this justice. That's not justice. Your God makes Hitler look like a nun. Every verse you quoted about hell has already been addressed by universalists. The reality is that hell was translated from 4 different words, all with different meanings and you take it all to mean a
Lightmane321 2 years ago
literal place where people will be trapped for all eternity. Then to justify it, you claim that it'll be better for them there and they would hate Heaven. That's so laughable, it's insane. The reality is that you believe that God will punish the unsaved for all eternity. Good jews, muslims, agnostics, hindus, buddhists, and even christians who weren't saved, will all go to hell forever and they'll be happier there than in heaven. You claim this is just. It's not. It's sick & cruel.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
You have no answers for what happens to those who never heard (there's MILLIONS) and what about when children die (heaven or hell and why). A jewish girl lives a good life. She loves God but doesn't believe in Jesus. Another girl believes & is saved, but then falls into all kinds of sins. According to you, A goes to hell & B goes to heaven, because God is just and loving and merciful, right???
You want verses from the bible. No problem.
Lightmane321 2 years ago
I will draw all men unto myself: John 12:32
As in Adam ALL die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive: 1Cor 15:22
God is not WILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to eternal life: 2 Peter 3:9
Here's some reading for you: By the way, I'm not a universalist: Not yet.
The Second Death and the Restitution of All Things by Andrew Jukes
Is Hell Eternal? Or Will God's Plan Fail? by Charles Pridgeon
Hope Beyond Hell by Gary Beauchemin
That's good for now.
Take care
Lightmane321 2 years ago
We can chose a relationship with God now, but there is nothing to indicate we have any opportunity after we have died.
God designed us from the beginning to have everlasting life, but it is because of God's mercy that He removed the tree of life so we would not be in our sinful state forever.
Keep in mind, this is about relationship with our Creator. God has given us the freewill to love Him or to reject Him. Christians willing worship God now, and we look forward to worshipping God in heaven.
sablechicken 2 years ago
In the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. 57), He explicitly warned His followers more than a half-dozen times about the dangers that lead to hell. In the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 2425), He repeatedly told His followers of the judgment to come. In His famous story of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16), He graphically portrayed the finality of eternal torment in hell.
Furthermore, the concept of choice demands that we believe in hell. Without hell, there is no choice.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Without choice, heaven would not be heaven; heaven would be hell. The righteous would inherit a counterfeit heaven, and the unrighteous would be incarcerated in heaven against their wills, which would be a torture worse than hell. Imagine spending a lifetime voluntarily distanced from God only to find yourself involuntarily dragged into His loving presence for all eternity.
sablechicken 2 years ago
The alternative to hell would be worse than hell itself in that humans made in the image of God would be stripped of freedom and forced to worship God against their will.
Finally, common sense regarding justice dictates that there must be a hell. Without hell, the wrongs of Hitlers Holocaust would never be righted. Justice would be impugned if, after slaughtering six million Jews, Hitler merely died in the arms of his mistress with no eternal consequences.
sablechicken 2 years ago
The ancients knew better than to think such a thing. David knew that it might seem for a time as though the wicked prosper despite their evil deeds, but in the end justice will be served. We may wish to think that no one will go to hell, but common sense regarding justice precludes that possibility.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Cor. 15:1-4)
sablechicken 2 years ago
Look, the problem is that evolution happened. I now believe it was the handy work of god. I would really love to debate the finer points of this topic with Mr. Hanegraaff but am not sure if it would be a useful conversation. None the less, Cheers..
robotwookie 2 years ago
robotwookie, Hank has a radio show where you can call in and ask questions. But the thing is what god is it that you believe in? The God of the Bible is very clear about the way in which He made the world.
What are finer points of the topic that you don't think Hank as covered?
sablechicken 2 years ago
Sable, thanks for the response. Well, I would say one thing, he is dead wrong on evolution and I think we should stick to that as I have not delved into his other material, so as to comment. I have been in a dilemma for some time. I have been looking for god and have thought I had found 'it'. However, there is so much baggage that comes with religion. I like a great deal about the bible but there is so much that appears to be wrong with it as I am a scientific guy. That's a good start I think..
robotwookie 2 years ago
Well you are using really broad strokes...I was hoping you might be clearer and pin point what you meant by "finer points".
God is not religion...As Hank pointed out several times in this short video, that finding is about a relationship with your Creator.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Fair enough. Why do I believe in evolution? And why could it be in line with the bible? I'll skim over it for one comment. First, there are about 20 fields of science that match up perfectly to back evolution. Genetics being the biggest/final proof. And believing in evolution is no more unbiblical than the fact that the universe has been evolving for 13.7 billion years. God used nature since the singularity for his work. I don't think the Jews would have understood decent with mods thus Adam
robotwookie 2 years ago
Side note. I absolutely do not discount original sin as it makes perfect sense that with the last genetic changes for man (i.e., genetic change for speech etc)was made and Adam (who was a real man) did sin. This is probably the biggest hang-up for everyone: Evolution and original sin. I believe both could have happened. But, I think both sides are hung up on this stuff when the message of the scriptures is the salvation of man and gods name being vindicated...
robotwookie 2 years ago
Are you saying that it is wrong to believe that the genetic information (DNA) for a frog is only unique to the frog...and so on.
Human DNA is unique human and even science is saying we are all so closely related to all other humans. There is no evidence that DNA mutation will produce anything but disorders. Why do you prefer to believe man's word without proof over God's word?
sablechicken 2 years ago
My friend. You need to take a few things into consideration. We can talk to the potential for genetic'mutations'until we are blue in the face. The problem is that there are fossils and genetics that show what happened. The evidence is overwhelming. Do you think I want to believe in evolution? Hell no. But I cant deny evidence because it doesn't fit my worldview and nor should you. I find the likelihood of this happening as impossible. But, facts are facts. Unless you can create a testable model?
robotwookie 2 years ago
Fossils don't tell us anything about mutations, but what fossils do tell us is that these animals died and where buried rapidly and put under a lot of pressure that caused them to fossilize. Fossils are found all over the world as well as the layers of sediment. This lines up with the Biblical flood. The evidence is overwhelming but don't get that confused with how it is interpreted by evolutionist. How do you make a testable model of fossilization? ...
sablechicken 2 years ago
Hank, instead of trying to disprove evolution with pseudo Science, try proving creation scientifically.
hoya03 2 years ago
I find it odd that I only ever hear Christians talk about macro evolution vs micro evolution. Is it not from the scientific view only a difference of time between the two?
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
There is limitations...time can not change that.
sablechicken 2 years ago
What limitations does our ability to adapt have?
Is it not from this alone feasible that a population that split off into two dramatically different environments would adapt in ultimately very different directions given a few million years?
(Many such separations would likely have occurred for example would the continents splitting apart.)
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
We have had thousands of years to of repeatable experiments through domestic breading of animal that demonstrate the limitations.
sablechicken 2 years ago
You're talking about limitations of manipulating a species through cross breading over a few thousand years.
That's one thing. But mutation over millions of years? I'm afraid that's beyond the scope of what human attempts at cross breeding can speak to.
myintellectualjourny 2 years ago
I wish Hank would take a sabbatical and read John Polkinghorne and Owen Gingerich.
Chiangmai007 2 years ago
Polkinghorne is a delightful read. I also agree with his views concerning science and religion. Have you read his most recent book?
astronomer747 2 years ago
1) Theistic Evolution isn't a oxymoron, plenty of religions can accept evolution however Christianity does not.
2) Survival of the fittest leads to LESS diversity, not MORE like evolution.
smrtsTV 2 years ago
Catholicism and Anglicanism, even Easter Orthodoxs have a neutral or pro positions on evolution. There are many groups that believe in ID or creationism, but the most of the people believe in Theistic Evolution.
alejandroga666 2 years ago
No, Eastern Orthodoxy is strongly against the theory of evolution.
Apologist117 2 years ago
Theistic Evolution actually has a different definition than the one you are proposing.
zdennyfamily 2 years ago
Care to share? Oh no guess you don't cause its still wrong ok, thanks for wasting our time
smrtsTV 2 years ago
These billions and billions and billions of years that atheistic evolutions asks us to accept is so difficult. It's almost or quite like 'faith' to me.They say Trust us..here this fossil, here's that fossil..trust us...even though we can't recreate it...you must trust us..we have more degrees than a thermometer. They want us to give them enough time so that the impossible becomes the inevitable. Although I would like to be free of God..I realise that there is something in me that is God aware.
whiteliketar 2 years ago
okay, if you hate science so much go to some tribe where they put fire ants in your pants because they BELIEVE it makes you a man. Go to some tribe where you will have to walk 25 miles every week just to get 2 buckets of water. because the men "with more degrees than a thermometer" is disproving your BELIEFS to help mankind advance.
dondondodo 2 years ago
that's where you jump to baseless conclusions. People who are God aware actually embrace and love science more that u ever will. Why? the answer is obivious - God's mind did it. God exists - get over it as Yaxley234 said.
whiteliketar 2 years ago
really? that's not what you were saying in the comment i posted before.
"I realise that there is something in me that is God aware. " it's human nature to believe in a higher figure that loves you. majority of 4 year olds have imaginary friends for the same reason.
"People who are God aware actually embrace and love science more that u ever will. " FYI "creation science" is not science. Evolution is science.
dondondodo 2 years ago
You embrace and love science that helps you, clean water, healthy food, modern technology, etc. However, when equally valid science comes along that disproves your ideology,You turn around and say it's wrong.
Both were found by the same process of science and to say one is wrong when it has been virtually proven is to deny logic and reason.
redlion7277 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God doesn't exist get over it.
RedlineMMA 2 years ago
God does exist, you get over it.
yaxley234 2 years ago
really? is it the same god the talibans believe in? maybe you should join them and blow yourself up as well.
dondondodo 2 years ago
THeistic evolution is the greatest theory ever pertaining to us!! It is no coincidence that the basic deoxyribonucleic acid coding of all living organisms are exactly the same!!!!!!
LiftingManiac17 2 years ago
explain how when this DNA is floating around in the evolution "soup" and the bases at cg combined with the acids amino acids it constructed and organized information when bases and acids have a reaction that scrabbles up information. Some basic dna in all living things proves a common Creator not a common orgin. cars, vans, and airplanes have common elements - tirs, motor, need for fuel but you wouldn't say the car evolved into a van that evolved into a plane
jdjrj 2 years ago
Ha ha - well said.
whiteliketar 2 years ago
Theistic evolutionist flat out call Jesus a liar since He spoke about creation,ADAM and Eve,Noah and the flood all as facts.
CBALLEN 2 years ago
you should probably learn a little more regarding the topic, i believe a couple of hard facts on this topic
1.) the key to heaven is through the belief of jesus christ as the son of god, not how the earth was created
2.) we were created to be ignorant on some issues and that is ok, i believe there are many things i will not understand until i am in heaven
also there are many different theistic evolution theories, i can think of only one that suggests adam and eve are purely used as a story
rjpolk 2 years ago
I like the analogy that hank used to describe the oxymoron of theistic evolution,"flaming snowflakes"
CBALLEN 2 years ago
also on the "flaming snowflakes" analogy...
Theism - belief in the existence of a god or gods
Evolution -the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth.
am i the only one who doesn't see how those are contradictory?... at all??
rjpolk 2 years ago
"the biblical account of creation states god created creatures according to their own kinds" AS PROVED BY SCIENCE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?!?!!
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!! lololololololololol
killgore333333 2 years ago
Don't you have homework to do?
yaxley234 2 years ago
lol wut the bable?
roftlcopters mah edumackated mind sez babble=bad
but seriously i dont deny the idea of a "supreme creator"
but i think the chances of it being yours is very damn slim
killgore333333 2 years ago
Sorry but honestly do disagree with this Video 100%. Its taken from a Western Interpretation of Scripture and an idea of Sola Scriptura which in itself is un-Biblical. Overall I do belive in evolution and do belive it is guided by the Lord. Thank you for the response though honestly.
Shirotora1979 2 years ago
Shirotora1979 you disagree 100%? If we do not have a foundation of our faith based on scripture, what is it based on?
sablechicken 2 years ago
I am sorry and 100% was wrong words but what I was refering to the following of Sola Scriptura. It is based on an understanding of scripture and the history behind it. Its based upon the Lord Jesus christ. Scripture is one area of our worship and understanding. I do find it funny that the answers guys seem to say where the Bible allows for science to understand. They want to limit God more then Theistic Evolution allows by saying what he has done based on there own understanding. cont...
Shirotora1979 2 years ago
understanding. I have no problem with people beliving in Creationism but when they start to say I am not a Christian because I belive evolution is the reason is where I draw the line. I find it funny how that many (not you this is NOT directed at you sable at all) want to give science Credence by trying to show scientific "evidence" for their own beliefs yet at the same time to dismiss it when it disagrees with them. Science show the How and God is the why.
Shirotora1979 2 years ago
so, I'm curious what everyone's opinion is on the salvation of a theistic evolutionist. If a christian believes that God may have used evolution to create humans, is this christian a true christian, or are they pretty much not getting into heaven? Ultimately what do you think will happen to them? I'm just looking for honest opinions cuz I'm curious....
atmanatoh 2 years ago
Atmanatoh, Jesus is the key to our Salvation. Jesus talks about the beginning, Jesus is the Truth. As a Christian you have a resoniblilty to learn more about God and how He wants us to live our life. My fear for Christians that hold up what man says about how the world was created over the word of God, is that it weaken their faith and find themselves in difficult spot when they are tested.
watch?v=NpC95afZOuA&feature=channel_page
sablechicken 2 years ago
k, but, if jesus is the key to our salvation, and a person has that key (i.e. they love jesus and accept Him as Lord and Saviour), my question is: will God keep a person out of heaven just because they didnt understand the mechanics of how He created us (days vs years)? Is it enough to know just that he created us or are we expected to know the particulars of how God works? in john 3:16 does "whomsoever" refer only to those who get the sciency part of creation right?
atmanatoh 2 years ago
Of corse God wouldn't keep a person out of heaven for not understanding the mechanics of how He created the universe. This is a miracle, like Jesus raising from the dead. How can we understand the mechanics of a miracle? What I do know about the Theory of Evolution doesn't line up with what I can understand, plants and animals have offspring after their own kind, just like it says in the Bible. The God I serve is the Creator of the universe.
sablechicken 2 years ago
I would say after there own kind is a misleading statement. That would me there are no changes in the structer or genetic makeup of the offspring. We know this isn't true..there are mutation and variations. These small almost invisible changes are what drive evolution.
Shirotora1979 2 years ago
There are variations and I have no problem seeing micro-evolution. Mutations are bad and can not be a driving force behind the Theory of Evolution. I have not heard of any examples of positive mutations.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Actually there are many expamples of postive mutations. Mutation just means a change not always postive or negative..sometimes its just neutral. Such as a mutation within the cells of certain people that make them immune to the Aids virus...Micro evolution IS evolution. Micro is Macro just with a extremly large amount of time.
Shirotora1979 2 years ago
ok, well, i understand that you don't think that the theory of evolution has merit, but in theistic evolutionists have jesus in their hearts, but disagree with you about the process by which God created humans, then what is the purpose of arguing with them about it if the important thing is if they have accepted jesus as their lord and saviour? I can understand why a christian would be alarmed if a person was trying to equate evolution with atheism, but if that's not the case, then why argue?
atmanatoh 2 years ago
atmanatoh
Let me put the question back to you, if you believe in Jesus, why are you rejecting what he said?
How did sin enter the world? Why do you have issue with God creating the world the way He said He did it? Have you deeply studied creation? Do you understand that a evolutionary world view contradicts a Christian world view?
sablechicken 2 years ago
hi, i don't know if my last post worked or not, cuz I've been have trouble posting things. But do you mind if i send you a message to discuss this? theres not alot of room here. I've never actually discussed with anyone my views and it's kinda fun. Usually I stay away from the debate cuz i meet such angry people, but you seem pleasant enough. :)
atmanatoh 2 years ago
atmanatoh, Sure you can private mail me.
sablechicken 2 years ago
Is Evolution compatible with the Bible?
watch?v=5otR8V8ybss&feature=channel_page
sablechicken 2 years ago
So.."god does not live in temples built by hands"
In other words..STOP BUILDING CHURCHES!!!!! god himself is asking you! And with the money you save buy some books and take some classes taught by real professors...and maybe, in time, nonsense like this video will be a distant bad memory.
buzzausa 3 years ago
theistic evolution is the craziest idea of all time "IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED" come on people wake up !
CHASCHARLTON 3 years ago
How about just IN THE BEGINNING THERE WAS SOMETHING and let's quit assuming we know what that is without evidence.
LotusGreenX 3 years ago
Bring up 9/11, the Holocaust, and the needless suffering of many innocent people across the globe, and his point on theistic evolution falls apart.
I think we all are able to see by the events around us, that God is not always loving or/and that God follows the policy of "the ends justify the means."
Even literalists like Hanegraaff would have to contend to this, because Jesus died a painfully slow death for our sins.
Indeed, point refuted.
richi1173 3 years ago
I think maybe the next major survival challenge in the evolution of our species may be to overcome this type of brainwashed, arrogant garbage. What's going to happen to us if too many people think this ignoramus is correct and we shouldn't be worried about or believe in climate change or pollution?
gavinplaysbass 3 years ago
Compare the initial quote "The struggle for life, and elimination of the weak is a horrible process" with the quote from Acts "and he determined the times set for them and the exact places they should live". The universe *is* arbitrary, natural disasters occur & innocent people die. The struggle for life is a reality, think of how many people on earth starve or die from disease, even little children. Hanegraaff says it's not arbitrary, then just what is God "determining"? Directionless judgment?
buckleycloud 3 years ago
haha theistic evolution is not contradictory stupid......haha have fun finding evidence we lived 10000 years ago with dinosaurs
gibs0nguitaro 3 years ago
Just because we became what we are by evolution, that does not mean we have to live our lives by it. We are not innocent we know what the results of our actions are, therefor we can develop morality based on that. We are as much beyond the Bible as we are beyond evoluitonary presures so we are able to develope our own morality without the bible as well.
JamesThWilliams 3 years ago
John Stott in his Understanding the Bible says that he sees no problem with evolution. Alister McGrath, Ernest Lucas et al have also underscored theistic evolution as a more plausible explanation.
Btw, evolutionary biology is just limited to Biology, it's not a worldview. With due respect, I must say bro Hanegraaff seems to be unaware of the writings of Evangelical scholars who underscores theistic evolution.
amairaja 3 years ago
Pearls of "scientific wisdom" from "scholar" Hanegraaff...who never got past high school.
BenAliGtor 3 years ago
The Universe is the means by which God is created.
Once God exists, all possibility is exhausted.
It's the creation itself which is the point.
And you can be a part of it!
Do what you can to reduce suffering in the world.
B7Scorpio 3 years ago
Comment removed
cindeemorgan 3 years ago
"Bible Answers" are not necessarily "Accurate Answers."
The Bible is not the most accurate translation. Talk about "the Blind leading the Blind."
ChiTownPartii 3 years ago
The Bible talks about the Blind leading the Blind it does not mean the "physical blind leading other physical blind ." That doesn't make sense. Jesus was not talking about the "physical blind." He was referring to the "spiritual blind" leading the "spiritual blind." Those that were blind to spiritual truth were leading others that were blind to spiritual truth.
Same thing when Jesus said "Let the dead bury the dead." He wasnt talking about physical death. He was talking about spiritual death.
tdforjesus 3 years ago
what do you do with Bruce Waltke, Derrek Kidner, Henri Blocher, and other evangelical old testament commentators who don't hold to any JEDP hypothesis yet state that they don't have any problem if God wanted to use evolution. I do think intelligent design is a good idea by the way, but I do believe in common descent.
airbornisgood4u 3 years ago
Common descent for Adam and Eve.
sablechicken 3 years ago
it just a declaration of order!! like "Be fruitful and multiply". It doesn't speak of special circumstances, just very general ones. We could all confirm that things reproduce "according to our kind". Of course. Evolutionists don't deny that! It doesn't speak at all of the process God might have used to create. I'm sorry Hannagraff. I like your Orthodox Preterism, but your anti-theistic evolution comments don't cut it for me.
airbornisgood4u 3 years ago
More and more evangelical Christians are getting away from Hannagraff's view. William Lane Craig, and Paul Copan, who are verrrry conservative evangelicals, don't see common descent or evolution as impossible under an inerrent Evangelical framework. The claim that somehow the "kinds" language in genesis means that God forbid creatures under certain limited circumstances to produce a different species. All the "kinds" language means is that rabbits don't produce horses, just very general!
airbornisgood4u 3 years ago
Just curious... Where did Craig and Copan say that? I've always thought they are die hard ID proponent.
amairaja 3 years ago
God did use evolution!
russjumps4fun 3 years ago
no...
golgothawas4me 3 years ago
I, as a Christian, could care less what Athiests think. The only problem I have with them is that they are always putting God and Creation down. Always thinking its a "delusion" and that there is no such thing and that all christians are just plain idiots that cant think. If you want to be a Athiest, go ahead. I just am not pleased when you make fun of my religion because you dont think its true.
GATurkeyHunter1 3 years ago
As a scientist and a Christian, I really like the theory of theistic evolution. I'm not sure that it is true, but I like it. I get so frustrated with Christians who insist that you are not a Christian if you don't believe that the earth and everything in it was literally created in 6 days. However, I am equally frustrated with scientists who claim that belief in evolution requires atheism. It certainly does not. This view of Hank Hanegraaff is not particularly convincing to me.
benzene5 3 years ago
Natural selection need not be violent.
fenoglios 3 years ago
It is fair to say that any intelligent person who believes in something, has the ability to present those beliefs in a logical facade capable of influencing simpler minds.
From the arguments presented in this video the intelligence of its author is questionable.
Maybe you didn't evolve....
dumallover 3 years ago
evolution is not science
elar4563 3 years ago
Evolution is not scientific !
Any EXPERIMENTATION will require OBSERVATION in order to arrive to the CONCLUSION.
Unfortunately, no intelligent human being can be able to exist and observe for at least 2 hundred years to perform such method. For we have to start from the very beginning of time to the very end. We can only keep on formulating hypothesis but without a solid conclusion.
TotoyTarugo 3 years ago
We observe evolution taking place all the time. Evolution requires two different factors: Natural Selection and mutation. We have observed both of these things in the real world, so therefore we have observed evolution.
FireRoachBeta 3 years ago
THEISTIC EVOLUTION IS NOT POSSIBLE. The Bible explicitly says that God created the heavens and the earth, etc. and everything during the first five days and MAN on the sixth day. As far as i know, the word "yom" was used in the passages earliest manuscripts available. YOM means 24-hour day. Also, why would God wait around a couple billion years before he created his most prized posession?
trueblue1217 3 years ago
'Create' does not mean 'poof'. It simply states that God made us. It doesn't explain HOW.
Why would God wait six days to create everything? Why not six seconds? Is God less powerful because he didn't do it in six seconds? Of course not. That argument fails.
rockandrock44 3 years ago
God is outside of time. What is a couple billion years to God?
metaxylenes 3 years ago
awesome!
toucheyang 3 years ago
Untrue. First, natural selection and adaptation are easily observed. This is referred to as MICRO-evolution. No one disputes that. Second, mutations are generally seen as harmful, and often result in a LOSS of information. Those undergoing these things do not become more complex and eventually grow into a new species, AKA MACRO-evolution, or Darwinism.
ConnellxSilverfur 3 years ago
Mutations are not always harmful. For example, bacteria mutated to eat nylon. There are manh more examples of this.
Show me the barrier that stops mutations from adding up and not resulting in macro evolution. By the way, marcoevolution is at or above the species level, and speciation has been observed. Thus, macro evolution HAS been directly observed.
rockandrock44 3 years ago
These arguments are based on a complete lack of information on biology and DNA, especially when it says all DNA's are uniquely programmed. NOT THE CASE. We know for a fact there is what is called "junk DNA" which exist for no apparent reason in different species, indicating common ancestors, etc. It's time for us believers to trace back to St Augustine in a correct interpretation of the different kinds of texts in the Bible and an unbiased look at the evidence from science.
rixploding 3 years ago
Why are we having a debate regarding evolution in America? 90% of Americans have some belief in a theism, particularly Christianity. Members of the National Academy of Sciences, in a recent poll, show that only 7% of them are theists, 72% are atheists and 21% are agnostic. These people are the professionals in the scientific community. If you want to learn to walk on water, talk to a minister. If you want to learn about evolution, talk to a biologist.
Lionspoint 3 years ago
That was the dumbest thing...
proudjester 3 years ago
according to there own "kinds"! really? guess thats why a sheep an goat can produce an offspring or a cammel an lamma.or horse an Zebra..I guess thats why Chimps share 98% of identical DNA with human lol bullshit Creationist..its said bring all creatures that breath through there nose on the ark? well how could a whale be on the ark? why a whale can live in water but not breathe in it lol? intellegent design or God have a since of irony
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
the offspring of a horse and a Zebra or a donkey are always sterile...it's the end of the line. I have hunted to see if goats and sheep can breed and I have not found any information on it. My neighbor has a female goat in with a full male sheep and so far she is not getting pregant. If you think chimps could produce offspring with humans...it would have been done by now...this is natural limitions that were set up when God created them.
sablechicken 3 years ago
Sheep an Goat can reproduce! look harder there is this thing called "Google" type in "hybrids"..Lions an Tigers can reproduce also so can other big cats!! KillerWhales an Dolphins..that "kind" statements make me wonder how unique were these creatures when they were made why even allow they to produce a offspring! an because humans an Chimps aint reproduce as yet doesnt mean that they cant why dont u sex chimp an find out LOL!! still anyone with eyes can see humans an Chimps have alot in common
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
These "hybrids" that you are talking about are STERILE. Ligers are sterile. By the way as far as us having so much in common with chimps...you would never be able to have one live in your house! Think about.
sablechicken 3 years ago
check this, the snake in the Garden did the Bible give "exact detail" how it looked? No!! but we still know snakes are reptiles now! God cursed the snake to move on its belly..so wouldnt it have been doin that before when he created snakes? soo why couldnt the snake evolved over time into a creature (reptile) that can move without legs!
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
Evolution predicts that those hybrids would be sterile. That's because they are two seperate species.
Kind cannot be species. If that were the case, then speciation would contradict the creationist viewpoint.
rockandrock44 3 years ago
sterile or not the point I'm making is, that they are not soo unique that they are not genetically compatible..even humans be sterile soo what does that prove? apes can walk up right also just not as well as we can! NOW DONT GET IT TWISTED I'm not saying we evolved from apes u see today I'm saying we share a common ancestor many scientific evidence proves it if u look for it, an I'm not talking fossil record!
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
The same case can be made for a common Designer.
sablechicken 3 years ago
iight a common desiger that used evolution! lol sorry but Creationism even makes God's word sound like a fairy tale! other than your own opinion an belifes there is no reason why could could not use evolution! nothing is to much for God!
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
I don't see animal changing into differant kinds and there is no proof they can. God made it all in 6 days, that was his first mircle. We have a historical lineage of people back to Adam.
sablechicken 3 years ago
stop avoiding questions lol...no proof really? lol u aint want see the proof.. Frogs have lungs! tadpoles have gills lol.. insides of a whale's fliper/fin have bones that only land creatures have! they look like fish but dont swim like um! how u know it was done in 6days? yeah historical lineage an Adamn had ancestors Adam was the 1st modern man!
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
did the Bible give "exact detail" how the snake looked? No!! but we still know snakes are reptiles now! God cursed the snake to move on its belly..so wouldnt it have been doin that before when he created snakes? soo why couldnt the snake evolved over time into a creature (reptile) that can move without legs! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT SEE IT DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT THERE!
BahamasIllestMC 3 years ago
Please define "Kind". It can't be species, so what is it? Genus, family?
rockandrock44 3 years ago