You would have to appreciate the difficulty in writing and performing such an interesting piece. To my ears personally, I can't say it's something I would listen to often though. However, I do like quarter and micro tones in non western flavored music. To me, it doesn't sound right on a piano where it is hard to resolve and harmonize with. I like the concept of using these tones on stringed instruments more, where you can bend, slide and resolve especially on single note lines. Just sayin' ;)
Interesting point- I too am pretty comfortable with hearing microtones as 'dissonances' reached with slides/bends etc and then resolved. But perhaps it's just a matter of time before this kind of unusual tuning system- with microtones built in- starts to sound more familiar too, even expressive. Once upon a time, even the dissonances in Wagner baffled me, now they move me. Maybe every harmonic language needs to be learnt, explored, experimented with before it can be understood.
@zesky I agree with this. I think it's all about how we apply notes within a particular harmony. It's just like chromatic note placement over chords. The same interval can sound sweet or sour depending on the context and quality of the chord in question and which octave with extra note is in. I believe this is why so many cultures use the C major pentatonic scale exclusively rather than the full C major scale- the perfect 4th and major 7th intervals can clash horribly if used incorrectly.
While I'm not at all opposed to this kind of experimental music and really do love it, I'd be interested in taking seriously the fact that almost every "traditional" scale - arabic, modal, diatonic, etc. - will sound /beautiful/ to most listeners if given enough time and/or the right piece of music. I don't think that will ever happen with these "atonal" pieces, no matter how much we're exposed to them. I just don't think we can describe them as beautiful, just like you can't describe S. Beckett
@alexandergreenb these three pieces aren't "atonal." They're quite tonal. The fact that the two instruments are tuned a 1/4 tone apart doesn't change that. Also, "we?" Speak for yourself, man. Aside from a few composers, I get bored listening to "common practice" music. "Ugly" is beautiful to me. Finally, this music was experimental in 1924.
@TheGuyFromThatMovie I get bored listening to "common practice" music, too, and would often prefer to listen to so-called atonal music or music not using traditional tonal arrangements. But I think there's a difference between the concept of "good art" and the concept of "beauty." Many of the pieces of art I consider most compelling and most interesting I wouldn't consider beautiful.
For anybody getting into microtonal music (I am not a musician, I only learned of it reading a JG Ballard story of all things) I would definitely recommend checking out Diesel Bodine's work on YouTube - it really blends quartertones with more "mainstream" Western tones and the result is FASCINATING... it's also easier on the ears for us noobs, quite beautiful, like a pop song that has been melted.
@mushroomknot6 PsyOpus? lol, did Arp said that or do you just think so? Sometimes I think that all his bends sounds like Xenakis'glissandi, but that would explain the tuplets...
@HappyFunBall Which Mozart? The historic or the contemporary? He was a great experimenter, too. It depends on whether you send this music two centuries back, or bring Mozart to the 20th. You will probably get different results.
I play the viola and violin, and I HATE the sound of out of tune strings. I thought I'd really hate the sound of quarter tones, but I also like breaking rules. I love this. I could learn to really like this stuff ;) I really enjoy how different it is from western music. It's refreshing.
even sitting that far away from each other, and how rubato it is, they're very much mentally connected in their performance. some of those rising syncopations between the parts are probably really hard to nail!
@missinformationage One has to wonder if the fact that the players are also brothers helps in this regard. I love the "fragmented ragtime" aspect of this piece!
Dang you western music! I wish I could appreciate this! It just sounds like a bunch of out of tune music. lol Seriously though, I wish I could appreciate it. I am gonna keep listening to see if my ear changes.
@wordsonapicture well, it has a lot to do with natural harmonics. Overtones and sympathetic frequencies work in the 12-tone scales we've established. Quarter-tones don't appear in an audible range for the human ear, so we're not accustomed to hearing it. I still think its a good thing that composers have experimented with it, though. Quarter-tones create an awful dissonance that, when used sparingly, can really work well orchestrally. It is often used in horror film scores.
I think one of the pianos is actually tuned half a step flat despite what the description says. If you tried to tune a piano sharp, it would destroy the piano because the pressure is too great.
Yes, you are right. I mis-read the explanation of what was done. The normally tuned piano is one-quarter tone sharp in relation to the re-tuned piano on the left. I made the correction.
it may be a stretch but i hear a tease of scott joplin's the entertainer at 1:47. and lots of stuff that reminds me of ragtime throughout. just brilliant.
Through Frank Zappa, I learned about Charles Ives, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Igor Stravinsky, Edgard Varese, and Johnny "Guitar" Watson. Thank you, Frank.
This stuff is bizarre. I was reading a book and stumbled across something about quarter tone pianos. I'm not sure if I like this, but I have this feeling that it would take getting used to. It does sound out of tune, but I guess that's only because I'm used to the 12 tone scale. But, to be honest, if all quarter tone piano stuff is like this, I doubt I'll ever enjoy it.
@metalfun111 You could get a fretless, or just bend by quarter tones to reach the notes. De-tuning a quarter tone wouldn't help, as I'm sure you're aware.
@Marmalade000000 Wouldn't it be awesome if there was some sort of button we could press to pause it? I guess we'll just have to wait until someone on the Youtube staff comes upon that genius idea
One must raise the point that regardless of whether or not you perceive the music to be of any worth, quarter tone music runs into impracticality, namely that one must have the capacity to tune a piano and keep it so for the sole purpose of practicing one single piece. All other duets must be practiced using a third piano, lest someone re-tunes the sharp piano every time one plays a new duet. This may bolster the explanation of why this music is not often heard.
I believe the reason we have a 12 tone system is in no way arbitrary but has to do with the harmonic overtones of a string. It emerges from the fundamental physics of a string. This 24 tone piece strikes me as academically interesting exercise, but not beautiful.
@LarsenPiano Your argument isn't really correct since our 12 note system is not actually "based" on physics since we use equal temperament. First of all, if it was based purely on physics then intervals such as the 4th and 2nd wouldn't be used that much since they are so high up on the overtone series. In fact, if our tuning was based on physics then a "microtonal" 3rd would be more correct than our tempered and sharp third. CONT.....
@saladshootavvv Yes, I'm aware of equal temperment. All I mean is if you take a slightly imperfect 5th 12 times, you arrive back to the same note. Most people, myself included, cannot discern this unequalness. In other words, it's essentially based on the theory of the string, but fudged ever so slightly, which we often do in the real world to make things work.
@LarsenPiano Yes you're right about not being able to perceive it to a certain extent, but again, that still does not mean that this isn't beautiful. Would you also say Ligeti's requiem is an "academically interesting exercise, but not beautiful."? My point was not to justify any tonal system, it was to make a point that you saying that this isn't beautiful because of its tuning system is silly and baseless. It's a way of you feeling justified in not taking this seriously.
@LarsenPiano Secondly, I have a problem with you calling this music "academic". just because you're not used to hearing it does not mean that it's not beautiful. In fact I find it very rich and gorgeous. New musical languages take a understanding of the vocabulary to grasp. One of my pet peeves is to have people dismiss "new" music as cold and intellectual and then back it up with flawed pseudo science. Thirdly, lets just say that our tuning system is based off of physics, CONT...
@LarsenPiano then what you're saying is that beauty can only come from natural acoustics which I totally disagree with. IN FACT it's evident that sometimes synthetic tuning systems, LIKE OUR EQUAL TEMPERAMENT, can be rich and wonderful. So please, before you brush off something as an interesting novelty please try to understand it more. You're obviously a great musician so please make sure to keep newer music alive and not dismiss it as just "academic". Ugh, again that term makes me ill...
Inside your ear is your cochlea, you could describe it as a tiny wound up stringed instrument that has more notes than any instruments you know. What your hearing is those other notes you did't even know you could hear.
@darkdude749 - The only reason it sounds terrible is because you were raised listening to music almost exclusively composed in the 12-tone equal tempered system. If you were raised on 24-tone music, this probably wouldn't sound all that strange to you. "Terrible" in music is completely relative. Keep an open mind and experiment with listening to new, exciting, and perhaps jarring sounds. Peace. :-)
Quarter tones can be very annoying, and music with quarter tones somewhat of a bizarre concept. The human ear is really only designed to understand half steps, and so to humans, quarter tones essentially sound like 2 notes, ringing discordantly against each other.
Not true. Tempered tuning didn't even exist up until 1700, and was limited to "Western" classical music before it spread out. Just take a brief look into ethno-musicology (example: the Javanese Gamelan employed a scale with five equidistant notes). In the larger scheme of things, it's tempered tuning that should be considered "unnatural"
@GreggaryPeccary I'm not arguing that quarters tones haven't been used, and weren't ever popular, I'm just saying the human ear can't properly interpret quarter tones. Humans can tell that two notes a quarter step away are not the same, but they can't fully distinguish the two notes from each other properly. I have found some instances where it works, such as Arabic music, where it is frequently used, but playing an entire piece using quarter tones disagrees with me highly.
Haha, this stuff is awesome! So different from what you're accustomed to hearing...I'd like to hear some quarter-tone choral works, though I imagine such pieces would be supremely challenging to sing.
@pimponthetimps man, I have never heard anyone describe Ives that way, but I come up with descriptions like that all the time. I like him because of sounds like that. Scriabin did some weird stuff, but I think this is way more fun.
The fact that you're too used to the manufactured and very limited 12ET system doesn't mean this is "absolute trash". Can you not handle the fact that some people find something you don't like beautiful?
@colourfulwithaU Yes. It's like speaking a language. If you don't speak, say, chinese, you might find even the most beautiful poem meaningless. This year I discovered Ives is not a one-piece composer ("Unanswered question") but very likely he is the most important American composer and is very significant in global terms, too.
@ultranotadork who is the arbiter of the "proper" balance of consonance and dissonance. to me it sounds perfectly balanced exciting and very witty. to you it probably sounds like a trainwreck. music's about aesthetics not adhering to formulaic, small minded and constricting doctrines. if you're looking for diatonic harmonies and traditional chord progressions stick to the beatles(whose music is equally enjoyable in my estimation)
@BrightonInWindsor People also fail to realize that other cultures use different tuning systems completely and have no notion of whole and half steps like Western Music does.
@BrightonInWindsor This is pretty interesting. I'm trying to figure it out but I also wonder if this kind of composition is just a horrible misuse of a scale that works better with eastern musical styles.
what would be cool is if they recorded a quarter tone piece like this one with the two different pianos recorded one on the left channel and the other on the right so you could listen to the individual parts through head-phone and switch them around..learn to hear the subtle intonation differences with both sides of your brain...
I must say that after listening to this piece a few times, waiting a year and listening to it again and again, trying to listen to this with an open mind and unbiased opinion (well, at least as much as is possible) it becomes very nice and pleasent to listen to.
I'm happy to read such heated debate about Ives' music. Who cares if people hate it, at least people are listening to it. Ives probably wouldn't give a flying flute if someone didn't like this, just as long as it was played well - as this piece was. The only thing that bothered him was incompetent musicians and 'lilly livered' music. (he probably meant 'nice' music)
I admire the pianists' ability to stay synchronized. as expected of experienced musicians! :)
Quarter tone music is really interesting. It doesn't actually sound out of tune, but perhaps even more "detailed" or intricate harmonically in a sense.
This piece is really quite interesting to listen to. I really like how Ives turns that little part at 1:39 to a really dark and intense variation starting at 2:26. Although the piece generally sounds unusual, I personally consider it music, rather than just noise, because some of the quarter tone stuff is a huge part of other cultures. I prefer listening to 2 pianos, one sharp and one normal, rather than a quarter tone piano, because it is a little bit more controlled and less annoying to ppl.
@Hobble Wrong, Indian music uses a 22 note scale that approximates our western chromatic scale with a few extra notes that vary just slightly from the chromatic scale. Arabic music, however, does use quarter tones.
@Hobble I'm no expret, but it's pretey common knoledge that most indian music uses a 22 note scale. (of wich ragas are derived) Some might use quarter tones though, as their tuning system is not standardized and may vary reigon to reigon.
@andreschamat Yes, but to sing it is hard because you ain't used to hearing it. But I have to say the way they use it hear is just a little wierd. I also mean that some of the chords are cool some sound just bad unfortunately.
...i'm not close minded, i just hate this piece... that's called being opinionated... sorry you have such a closed mind to think that someone with a rational opinion is closed minded... this piece is horrible.
it is irrational to hold that aesthetic judgements are purely subjective (opinion); the logical conclusion of this is that piles of trash are on par with Van Gogh's Starry Night. If art is merely a matter of opinion, then why do people go to art/music school?
I believe someone who upholds the argument that art is merely a matter of opinion would say that people go to art and music school because they're fools. I don't uphold that argument, but, coincidentally, I did go to music school, and I am a fool.
I have to laugh a little to myself because both players are kind of enjoying playing this, but if I were to play something like this, I would cringe the whole time because of the weird sounds being produced. At the same time its very interesting to listen to such a piece in a unique style. Imagine if this were played on 2 normally pianos....
It was written with the micro-tones in mind. If it had been tuned to two equal tempered pianos then it would not be as interesting. You are missing the point entirely
I'm being a "fucking dick"? My comment to you was fairly polite, not exactly nice, but it doesn't warrant an insult towards me.
And what exactly is weird about the "weird sounds being produced"? ALL sounds are just sounds. TBH our equal temperament A440 system would sound weird to past cultures and other cultures around the world. How can you be a composer and not be keen to all sounds?
I heard your music. It's like you're a kitsch mongering fool...that's right, now I'm being a "fucking dick"
You are indeed correct in saying that you were not being exactly nice. Let's get something straight: I am becoming a Junior in high school, just getting ready to start music theory this year (which I haven't taken any other year in high school). Second of all I meant the word "weird" in a much different way than you would think. By weird I meant: not something I would hear every day. It's not like I said "this sucks balls" or "i hate this" in my comment or something like that.
You would have to appreciate the difficulty in writing and performing such an interesting piece. To my ears personally, I can't say it's something I would listen to often though. However, I do like quarter and micro tones in non western flavored music. To me, it doesn't sound right on a piano where it is hard to resolve and harmonize with. I like the concept of using these tones on stringed instruments more, where you can bend, slide and resolve especially on single note lines. Just sayin' ;)
TheMusoguy9981 2 weeks ago
Interesting point- I too am pretty comfortable with hearing microtones as 'dissonances' reached with slides/bends etc and then resolved. But perhaps it's just a matter of time before this kind of unusual tuning system- with microtones built in- starts to sound more familiar too, even expressive. Once upon a time, even the dissonances in Wagner baffled me, now they move me. Maybe every harmonic language needs to be learnt, explored, experimented with before it can be understood.
zesky 6 days ago
@zesky I agree with this. I think it's all about how we apply notes within a particular harmony. It's just like chromatic note placement over chords. The same interval can sound sweet or sour depending on the context and quality of the chord in question and which octave with extra note is in. I believe this is why so many cultures use the C major pentatonic scale exclusively rather than the full C major scale- the perfect 4th and major 7th intervals can clash horribly if used incorrectly.
TheMusoguy9981 1 day ago
like this if you're here because of music class.
lovelookshard 1 month ago
While I'm not at all opposed to this kind of experimental music and really do love it, I'd be interested in taking seriously the fact that almost every "traditional" scale - arabic, modal, diatonic, etc. - will sound /beautiful/ to most listeners if given enough time and/or the right piece of music. I don't think that will ever happen with these "atonal" pieces, no matter how much we're exposed to them. I just don't think we can describe them as beautiful, just like you can't describe S. Beckett
alexandergreenb 1 month ago
@alexandergreenb as beautiful
alexandergreenb 1 month ago
@alexandergreenb these three pieces aren't "atonal." They're quite tonal. The fact that the two instruments are tuned a 1/4 tone apart doesn't change that. Also, "we?" Speak for yourself, man. Aside from a few composers, I get bored listening to "common practice" music. "Ugly" is beautiful to me. Finally, this music was experimental in 1924.
TheGuyFromThatMovie 3 weeks ago
@TheGuyFromThatMovie I get bored listening to "common practice" music, too, and would often prefer to listen to so-called atonal music or music not using traditional tonal arrangements. But I think there's a difference between the concept of "good art" and the concept of "beauty." Many of the pieces of art I consider most compelling and most interesting I wouldn't consider beautiful.
alexandergreenb 3 weeks ago
@alexandergreenb In short, ugly is not beautiful to me, but sometimes I find beauty utterly banal and uninteresting.
alexandergreenb 3 weeks ago
This is trash. There's a reason no one listens to this creavtveheart68... Mmmmm
TheDaniel7430 1 month ago
@TheDaniel7430 yeah, because 75,000 people and counting on YT is "no one."
TheGuyFromThatMovie 3 weeks ago
My brain hurts!
ettercapny 3 months ago
I'm so wondered What was the composer thinking of?!
Skraps2010 4 months ago
Being out of tune never sounded so good =)
musicmann008 4 months ago
1:47 it almost sounded a little consonant. Almost.
frankentomato 4 months ago
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frankentomato 4 months ago
Twisted Ice cream truck music?
drgabrielsoileau 6 months ago 6
Made my mind cry, beautiful
11l11l11 6 months ago
mmm, I dont think I have ever heard a piece from Ives that I havent liked...
omgtkseth 6 months ago
excelente! gracias por publicarlo
krakus5813 7 months ago in playlist Quarter-Tone Pieces for Piano(s)
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Hey guys, check out my quarter tone piece for two harps!
watch?v=B7Rv-k6DwkM
kratanuva725 8 months ago
For anybody getting into microtonal music (I am not a musician, I only learned of it reading a JG Ballard story of all things) I would definitely recommend checking out Diesel Bodine's work on YouTube - it really blends quartertones with more "mainstream" Western tones and the result is FASCINATING... it's also easier on the ears for us noobs, quite beautiful, like a pop song that has been melted.
meritxell88888 9 months ago
beautifully insane, insanely beautiful - Ives ranks with ANY other great composer
bassomanvfr 9 months ago
so THIS is where psyOpus originated from
mushroomknot6 9 months ago
@mushroomknot6 PsyOpus? lol, did Arp said that or do you just think so? Sometimes I think that all his bends sounds like Xenakis'glissandi, but that would explain the tuplets...
omgtkseth 6 months ago
@omgtkseth i dont know for sure but this song does sound like some sort of psyopus interlude, it was meant more as a joke
mushroomknot6 6 months ago
@mushroomknot6 Haha probably...
tehpeasant 6 months ago
in a strange way this remembers me of the sound of john cage's prepared piano, did he also write quartertones in his pieces?
zuzrwolrd 9 months ago
How do you know when a quarter tone piano is out of tune?
elysiumx2 9 months ago
@elysiumx2
It's starts covering other piano's tunes... bah dum
I know I know "Don't quit yer day job"....
JonP1961 9 months ago
@elysiumx2 you don't ;-)
aihoschema 7 months ago
@dancinginthestreet1 I heard that too. It's funny and creepy at once; hitting the point home for pop philistines?
DCBSupafly 9 months ago
This music is so beautiful. Absolutely incredible.
mrtmat 10 months ago
da fuck is going on, actually this is really funny i am laughing a lot, reminds me of a party of evil clowns
DrunkPerson 11 months ago
I got headache while listening to this song... Still, very interesting indeed...
archrockerlkloong 11 months ago
mm beautifull, this on western music, new world opens up right in front of me
fuckingharpsichord 11 months ago
Imagine Mozart listening to this - his head would asplode.
Before I read the piano was retuned it seemed more impressive - getting this from normal dissonances.
HappyFunBall 11 months ago
@HappyFunBall Which Mozart? The historic or the contemporary? He was a great experimenter, too. It depends on whether you send this music two centuries back, or bring Mozart to the 20th. You will probably get different results.
Unbihexium 3 months ago
I play the viola and violin, and I HATE the sound of out of tune strings. I thought I'd really hate the sound of quarter tones, but I also like breaking rules. I love this. I could learn to really like this stuff ;) I really enjoy how different it is from western music. It's refreshing.
ShadyNightCrow 1 year ago
even sitting that far away from each other, and how rubato it is, they're very much mentally connected in their performance. some of those rising syncopations between the parts are probably really hard to nail!
missinformationage 1 year ago 2
@missinformationage One has to wonder if the fact that the players are also brothers helps in this regard. I love the "fragmented ragtime" aspect of this piece!
MooPotPie 6 months ago
Dang you western music! I wish I could appreciate this! It just sounds like a bunch of out of tune music. lol Seriously though, I wish I could appreciate it. I am gonna keep listening to see if my ear changes.
GuitarRonnie13 1 year ago 2
@GuitarRonnie13 I wish more people had the same attitude as you.
denizzzzz31 1 year ago
If it's not pleasant to listen to, what's the point? I'm definitely not going to walk around humming this to myself, lol
Kachukeland 1 year ago
@Kachukeland You might not, but I certainly do. I find this very enjoyable.
wordsonapicture 1 year ago
@wordsonapicture well, it has a lot to do with natural harmonics. Overtones and sympathetic frequencies work in the 12-tone scales we've established. Quarter-tones don't appear in an audible range for the human ear, so we're not accustomed to hearing it. I still think its a good thing that composers have experimented with it, though. Quarter-tones create an awful dissonance that, when used sparingly, can really work well orchestrally. It is often used in horror film scores.
Kachukeland 1 year ago
Genius.
TeamInferno81 1 year ago
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Jesus christ is king of kings and lord of lords
bass109 1 year ago
i listened to this a few months ago. was interesting. but now i analyze what is actually going on? this ... is... i... am completely speechless. <3
MichaelEdwardCurtin 1 year ago
This is brilliant.
Khempejjer 1 year ago
I think one of the pianos is actually tuned half a step flat despite what the description says. If you tried to tune a piano sharp, it would destroy the piano because the pressure is too great.
Wex1117 1 year ago
@Wex1117
Yes, you are right. I mis-read the explanation of what was done. The normally tuned piano is one-quarter tone sharp in relation to the re-tuned piano on the left. I made the correction.
BofferBings 1 year ago
@Wex1117 it would destroy the piano, but wouldn't that sound awesome, though!
missinformationage 6 months ago
The opening to this is possibly the most epic piano intro to anything ever!
Thumbs up if you agree.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@kratanuva725 nobody agrees, haha including me.
mlr2107 1 year ago
it may be a stretch but i hear a tease of scott joplin's the entertainer at 1:47. and lots of stuff that reminds me of ragtime throughout. just brilliant.
dancinginthestreet1 1 year ago 2
Through Frank Zappa, I learned about Charles Ives, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Igor Stravinsky, Edgard Varese, and Johnny "Guitar" Watson. Thank you, Frank.
devolve42 1 year ago
Love it, love it, love it!
pegmadsen 1 year ago
This stuff is bizarre. I was reading a book and stumbled across something about quarter tone pianos. I'm not sure if I like this, but I have this feeling that it would take getting used to. It does sound out of tune, but I guess that's only because I'm used to the 12 tone scale. But, to be honest, if all quarter tone piano stuff is like this, I doubt I'll ever enjoy it.
Stratocaster42 1 year ago
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God I could listen to that all night ...... but I'm not going to.
davehorne 1 year ago
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God, I could listen to that all night .... but I'm not going to.
davehorne 1 year ago
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davehorne 1 year ago
Hmm, not my my faovrite quarter tone piece for piano, but the chords in the beginning are really cool!
kratanuva725 1 year ago
i wish i had a quarter tone guitar with smaller frets
metalfun111 1 year ago
@metalfun111 you can just detune your guitar a quarter tone up or down with a graph digital tuner
iammorek 1 year ago
@metalfun111 You could get a fretless, or just bend by quarter tones to reach the notes. De-tuning a quarter tone wouldn't help, as I'm sure you're aware.
Goromike 1 year ago
This reminds me of Frank Zappa.
ElPayasoMalo 1 year ago
The beating festival!
JazzBrother88 1 year ago
OMG!!!! I have perfect pitch and this is a NIGHTMARE!!!!! Make it stooooooooooooop!!!!!
Marmalade000000 1 year ago
@Marmalade000000 Wouldn't it be awesome if there was some sort of button we could press to pause it? I guess we'll just have to wait until someone on the Youtube staff comes upon that genius idea
aabaker22 1 year ago 2
One must raise the point that regardless of whether or not you perceive the music to be of any worth, quarter tone music runs into impracticality, namely that one must have the capacity to tune a piano and keep it so for the sole purpose of practicing one single piece. All other duets must be practiced using a third piano, lest someone re-tunes the sharp piano every time one plays a new duet. This may bolster the explanation of why this music is not often heard.
coasterman16 1 year ago
@coasterman16
That would be easy with an electric keyboard. Some electric keyboards, anyway.
Pstephen 1 year ago
It's interesting music, but it kind of leaves you hanging. I wouldn't want to listen to this for too long... it doesn't seem to resolve.
AllTheGoodNamzWerTkn 1 year ago
I believe the reason we have a 12 tone system is in no way arbitrary but has to do with the harmonic overtones of a string. It emerges from the fundamental physics of a string. This 24 tone piece strikes me as academically interesting exercise, but not beautiful.
LarsenPiano 1 year ago 2
@LarsenPiano Your argument isn't really correct since our 12 note system is not actually "based" on physics since we use equal temperament. First of all, if it was based purely on physics then intervals such as the 4th and 2nd wouldn't be used that much since they are so high up on the overtone series. In fact, if our tuning was based on physics then a "microtonal" 3rd would be more correct than our tempered and sharp third. CONT.....
saladshootavvv 1 year ago
@saladshootavvv Yes, I'm aware of equal temperment. All I mean is if you take a slightly imperfect 5th 12 times, you arrive back to the same note. Most people, myself included, cannot discern this unequalness. In other words, it's essentially based on the theory of the string, but fudged ever so slightly, which we often do in the real world to make things work.
LarsenPiano 1 year ago
@LarsenPiano Yes you're right about not being able to perceive it to a certain extent, but again, that still does not mean that this isn't beautiful. Would you also say Ligeti's requiem is an "academically interesting exercise, but not beautiful."? My point was not to justify any tonal system, it was to make a point that you saying that this isn't beautiful because of its tuning system is silly and baseless. It's a way of you feeling justified in not taking this seriously.
saladshootavvv 1 year ago
@LarsenPiano Secondly, I have a problem with you calling this music "academic". just because you're not used to hearing it does not mean that it's not beautiful. In fact I find it very rich and gorgeous. New musical languages take a understanding of the vocabulary to grasp. One of my pet peeves is to have people dismiss "new" music as cold and intellectual and then back it up with flawed pseudo science. Thirdly, lets just say that our tuning system is based off of physics, CONT...
saladshootavvv 1 year ago
@LarsenPiano then what you're saying is that beauty can only come from natural acoustics which I totally disagree with. IN FACT it's evident that sometimes synthetic tuning systems, LIKE OUR EQUAL TEMPERAMENT, can be rich and wonderful. So please, before you brush off something as an interesting novelty please try to understand it more. You're obviously a great musician so please make sure to keep newer music alive and not dismiss it as just "academic". Ugh, again that term makes me ill...
saladshootavvv 1 year ago
@LarsenPiano Using a twelve tone systyem for music makes sense, and is very pracatical, but it for think it is natural, you are on crack.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
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this is really cool.
rajidae 1 year ago
Gorgeous! The overtones are really striking.
How the heck did he write it though!
Genius...
svenghoulieil 1 year ago
god, thats so damned great, i love it!!
aeriality 1 year ago
Inside your ear is your cochlea, you could describe it as a tiny wound up stringed instrument that has more notes than any instruments you know. What your hearing is those other notes you did't even know you could hear.
Ethxn456qsc 1 year ago 3
some music is only for musical people.
Vesters1 1 year ago 2
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wow this is fantastic
Vesters1 1 year ago
This sounds terrible...
darkdude749 1 year ago
@darkdude749 its ... an acquired taste
crazyandsuicidal 1 year ago
@darkdude749 - The only reason it sounds terrible is because you were raised listening to music almost exclusively composed in the 12-tone equal tempered system. If you were raised on 24-tone music, this probably wouldn't sound all that strange to you. "Terrible" in music is completely relative. Keep an open mind and experiment with listening to new, exciting, and perhaps jarring sounds. Peace. :-)
DarknessHowls 1 year ago
trippy
Competitionorange1 1 year ago
I actually think this sounds pretty neat. =) But, I've already listened to a lot of microtonal music, so my ears are more used to it.
Neonotso 1 year ago
Quarter tones can be very annoying, and music with quarter tones somewhat of a bizarre concept. The human ear is really only designed to understand half steps, and so to humans, quarter tones essentially sound like 2 notes, ringing discordantly against each other.
comprehensivemuskrat 1 year ago
@comprehensivemuskrat
Not true. Tempered tuning didn't even exist up until 1700, and was limited to "Western" classical music before it spread out. Just take a brief look into ethno-musicology (example: the Javanese Gamelan employed a scale with five equidistant notes). In the larger scheme of things, it's tempered tuning that should be considered "unnatural"
GreggaryPeccary 1 year ago
@GreggaryPeccary I'm not arguing that quarters tones haven't been used, and weren't ever popular, I'm just saying the human ear can't properly interpret quarter tones. Humans can tell that two notes a quarter step away are not the same, but they can't fully distinguish the two notes from each other properly. I have found some instances where it works, such as Arabic music, where it is frequently used, but playing an entire piece using quarter tones disagrees with me highly.
comprehensivemuskrat 1 year ago
@comprehensivemuskrat Yes, disagrees with you. This is a product of environmental and cultural conditioning.
MatthewKaras 1 year ago
THIS IS AMAZING!!
ffwoodycooks 1 year ago
aaaaa this is breaking my classically -trained ears lol!
Vulturer 1 year ago
As Ives himself said,
"Use your ears like men!"
DarknessHowls 2 years ago 2
Haha, this stuff is awesome! So different from what you're accustomed to hearing...I'd like to hear some quarter-tone choral works, though I imagine such pieces would be supremely challenging to sing.
DarknessHowls 2 years ago
this kind of music reminds me of listening to an ice cream truck when it's in front of you and then after it's passed by
pimponthetimps 2 years ago 14
@pimponthetimps Oh, perfect description... I was thinking wind chimes and old music boxes - but that's right on.
missy2j 2 years ago 2
@pimponthetimps doppler effect on sound
punkybri 11 months ago
@pimponthetimps gotta love the doppler effect.
MarkJamesFreeman 11 months ago
@pimponthetimps gotta love the Doppler effect.
MarkJamesFreeman 11 months ago
@pimponthetimps man, I have never heard anyone describe Ives that way, but I come up with descriptions like that all the time. I like him because of sounds like that. Scriabin did some weird stuff, but I think this is way more fun.
benmillerintx 10 months ago
@pimponthetimps
Doppler effect FTW!
colourfulwithaU 9 months ago
that was quite nice
organman42 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
by an "open mind" I think you all mean "tolerant of absolute trash"
This sounds worse than two drunk hobgoblins banging on an old lady's piano. Seriously, get some real taste people.
creavtveheart68 2 years ago
well Ive's is clearly famous for stating "what does sound have to do with music?"
singingatUMich2013 2 years ago 3
I might be tolerant of absolute trash, but I'm still not of total idiots
Robusto103 1 year ago
@creavtveheart68
The fact that you're too used to the manufactured and very limited 12ET system doesn't mean this is "absolute trash". Can you not handle the fact that some people find something you don't like beautiful?
Differing opinions: they exist.
colourfulwithaU 3 months ago 2
@colourfulwithaU Yes. It's like speaking a language. If you don't speak, say, chinese, you might find even the most beautiful poem meaningless. This year I discovered Ives is not a one-piece composer ("Unanswered question") but very likely he is the most important American composer and is very significant in global terms, too.
Unbihexium 3 months ago
I bet these guys dont have perfect pitch, it would probably be impossible to play this with perfect pitch
NABUMCHUK 2 years ago
@NABUMCHUK
I wouldn't say impossible, just irritating
BrightonInWindsor 1 year ago
@NABUMCHUK what's the relation? the piano is already tuned. i think it's just a matter of playing and getting used to it.
KdaUmKdaUm 1 year ago
Quarter tone music is NOT out of tune, you're just not used to hearing it. I have composed a bit of music in quarter tones and I just got used to it.
BrightonInWindsor 2 years ago 47
@BrightonInWindsor
I'm calling bullshit. 12 tones are more natural - comes from harmonic series.
chiquitobonito 1 year ago
@BrightonInWindsor Is it still providing a proper balance of consonance and dissonance, complete with resolve?
ultranotadork 1 year ago
@ultranotadork who is the arbiter of the "proper" balance of consonance and dissonance. to me it sounds perfectly balanced exciting and very witty. to you it probably sounds like a trainwreck. music's about aesthetics not adhering to formulaic, small minded and constricting doctrines. if you're looking for diatonic harmonies and traditional chord progressions stick to the beatles(whose music is equally enjoyable in my estimation)
dancinginthestreet1 1 year ago
@BrightonInWindsor People also fail to realize that other cultures use different tuning systems completely and have no notion of whole and half steps like Western Music does.
nkip9230 1 year ago
@BrightonInWindsor This is pretty interesting. I'm trying to figure it out but I also wonder if this kind of composition is just a horrible misuse of a scale that works better with eastern musical styles.
richard23videos 11 months ago
what would be cool is if they recorded a quarter tone piece like this one with the two different pianos recorded one on the left channel and the other on the right so you could listen to the individual parts through head-phone and switch them around..learn to hear the subtle intonation differences with both sides of your brain...
catgumart 2 years ago 2
awesome idea!
singingatUMich2013 2 years ago
I must say that after listening to this piece a few times, waiting a year and listening to it again and again, trying to listen to this with an open mind and unbiased opinion (well, at least as much as is possible) it becomes very nice and pleasent to listen to.
yuastnav 2 years ago
I'm happy to read such heated debate about Ives' music. Who cares if people hate it, at least people are listening to it. Ives probably wouldn't give a flying flute if someone didn't like this, just as long as it was played well - as this piece was. The only thing that bothered him was incompetent musicians and 'lilly livered' music. (he probably meant 'nice' music)
bonbonchanson 2 years ago
I think I've been stricken with amusia....
Mswordx23 2 years ago
I admire the pianists' ability to stay synchronized. as expected of experienced musicians! :)
Quarter tone music is really interesting. It doesn't actually sound out of tune, but perhaps even more "detailed" or intricate harmonically in a sense.
neoguy9090 2 years ago
Experimental
Jim341046 2 years ago
good observation jim.
peacelovebassoon0107 2 years ago
This piece is really quite interesting to listen to. I really like how Ives turns that little part at 1:39 to a really dark and intense variation starting at 2:26. Although the piece generally sounds unusual, I personally consider it music, rather than just noise, because some of the quarter tone stuff is a huge part of other cultures. I prefer listening to 2 pianos, one sharp and one normal, rather than a quarter tone piano, because it is a little bit more controlled and less annoying to ppl.
howfarwouldyougo355 2 years ago
It's funny how all the comments that are critical of Ives' music are given low ratings, while the worshippers get thumbs up.
Not that I have anything against Charlie's music. I think it's a perfect way to give non-drug users the sensation of tripping on LSD.
jerrytomball 2 years ago
It would interesting to hear a pop song with a quarter tone language XD
andreschamat 2 years ago 25
listen to the studio board feed of that beyonce performance. You will hear all sorts of out shit.
flugel07 2 years ago 2
sorry, not studio...its live
flugel07 2 years ago
Ahaha, that'd be "Justin Timberlake's - SexyBack" the vocoder parts are covered with semi-flats!
XP
FrancisMitterrand 2 years ago 2
Good example!
Muzikman127 2 years ago
@andreschamat A lot of Indian music uses quarter tones (a lot more sparingly than this however), which has bled into their pop music.
Hobble 1 year ago
@Hobble Wrong, Indian music uses a 22 note scale that approximates our western chromatic scale with a few extra notes that vary just slightly from the chromatic scale. Arabic music, however, does use quarter tones.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@kratanuva725 I see. Do you know any good sources to study this? I've learned a few raags and came across quarter-tones a few times.
Hobble 1 year ago
@Hobble I'm no expret, but it's pretey common knoledge that most indian music uses a 22 note scale. (of wich ragas are derived) Some might use quarter tones though, as their tuning system is not standardized and may vary reigon to reigon.
kratanuva725 1 year ago
@andreschamat Sonic Youth maybe? XD
NotHomelessAnymore 1 year ago
@andreschamat , you haven't listened to enough 'Pop Idols'.
davehorne 1 year ago 2
@davehorne Quite possibly one of the best responses I've ever read on Youtube. :)
Stratocaster42 1 year ago
@andreschamat I'll get started on it right away!
missinformationage 1 year ago
@andreschamat Yes, but to sing it is hard because you ain't used to hearing it. But I have to say the way they use it hear is just a little wierd. I also mean that some of the chords are cool some sound just bad unfortunately.
May'be I shall try.
akamarutv 1 year ago
@andreschamat I know that Rihanna did one recently. It was only for a few chords, but still.
bradbro09 1 year ago
Have you ever tried to play an out of tune piano? It's quite hard! Your brain tells you that you're not pressing the correct note and you mess up...
Stunt2one 2 years ago 5
it sounds like process of tuning...i have really got a headache
niazi1985 2 years ago
You can argue all you want, but 150 years from now, this will be one of the best pieces of music ever written.
gerlachenator 2 years ago 4
Thanks for posting - fantastic
Bigneebug 2 years ago 3
He's challenging traditional forms of beauty. It's an aquired taste, for sure, but it erupts with passion.
it's brilliant
lastlivingsoul09 2 years ago
Reminds me of Dali's melting clocks.
kjensax1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This piece is is boarderline retarded... there... someone needed to say it.
salvadorr88 2 years ago
Yeah, it just so happens that that someone needed to be close-minded.
sikyatavo 2 years ago
...i'm not close minded, i just hate this piece... that's called being opinionated... sorry you have such a closed mind to think that someone with a rational opinion is closed minded... this piece is horrible.
salvadorr88 2 years ago
agreed.
Swatrecon 2 years ago
it is irrational to hold that aesthetic judgements are purely subjective (opinion); the logical conclusion of this is that piles of trash are on par with Van Gogh's Starry Night. If art is merely a matter of opinion, then why do people go to art/music school?
sikyatavo 2 years ago
I believe someone who upholds the argument that art is merely a matter of opinion would say that people go to art and music school because they're fools. I don't uphold that argument, but, coincidentally, I did go to music school, and I am a fool.
badmuthahubbard 2 years ago
That is one of the best YouTube comments I have ever read. However, I could be a fool as well.
drunktastic 2 years ago
agreed.
Swatrecon 2 years ago
Ives gets some neat harmonies out of this.
emilygclarinet 2 years ago
This is great and recommended for earcleaning.
audiovisuality 2 years ago 4
So interesting, really. I've never heard anything like it, so it's pretty cool in that respect.
NejiHyuuga777 2 years ago
I have to laugh a little to myself because both players are kind of enjoying playing this, but if I were to play something like this, I would cringe the whole time because of the weird sounds being produced. At the same time its very interesting to listen to such a piece in a unique style. Imagine if this were played on 2 normally pianos....
composer14 2 years ago
sorry "two normally tuned pianos" is what a meant to say.
composer14 2 years ago
It was written with the micro-tones in mind. If it had been tuned to two equal tempered pianos then it would not be as interesting. You are missing the point entirely
saladshootavvv 2 years ago
ok but you don't need to be a fucking dick about it.
composer14 2 years ago
I'm being a "fucking dick"? My comment to you was fairly polite, not exactly nice, but it doesn't warrant an insult towards me.
And what exactly is weird about the "weird sounds being produced"? ALL sounds are just sounds. TBH our equal temperament A440 system would sound weird to past cultures and other cultures around the world. How can you be a composer and not be keen to all sounds?
I heard your music. It's like you're a kitsch mongering fool...that's right, now I'm being a "fucking dick"
saladshootavvv 2 years ago 4
You are indeed correct in saying that you were not being exactly nice. Let's get something straight: I am becoming a Junior in high school, just getting ready to start music theory this year (which I haven't taken any other year in high school). Second of all I meant the word "weird" in a much different way than you would think. By weird I meant: not something I would hear every day. It's not like I said "this sucks balls" or "i hate this" in my comment or something like that.
Have a nice day =)
composer14 2 years ago