This country has ALWAYS has an utter contempt fro skill - under all governments. That's why the UK is a post-industrial, post-technical retarded country.
Deja vú; in Sweden, the party leader of the Social Democratic Worker's Party(Labour's sister party), Håkan Juholt, is being attacked in the same way Tony Benn was attacked during the 80's.
Both Juholt and Benn have dared challenge neoliberalism, they have put forward an alternative to market fundamentalism, and the right-wing press in both Britain and Sweden have done everything they can to depose of them both; in Britain they succeeded, in Sweden the hunt is ongoing.
Look around you today, he saw what would happen and no-one believed him he was set up by the press as being a "looney Left" politician, but he was right on so many things. We need to hear him again and listen closely
Spot on Tony, it was a privilige to meet you in 1992. We are now paying the price of Thatchersim, ripped off by privatised companies, no jobs for the youth, lost skills, Thatcher was a disaster for Britain.
Heard this wonderful man speak at a conference for A Level Politics students this year-- he spoke after Nigel Farage and the contrast between that snide, snivelling worm and this remarkable man was unbelievable. I had the privelige to ask him a question and he was kind and informative-- many of the other speakers didn't even answer what was asked.
One of the many reasons I love this man and his ideology so much. A noticeably empty house merely highlights how little politicians of every political colour want to listen to the sensible voices of those who care about society. Sadly Tony Blair merely followed in Thatcher's footsteps. Greedy and selfish "attributes" will never get my vote..
specific parts of nationalised indstries..and wage deals..by actually ''taking on'' various unions and pay deals..which in turn to the delight of various factions of the media..led to the dreadful soundbyte the winter of discontent..
i've seen benn speak a couple of times..he even acknowledges this himself.as near has said the video is almost prophetic
..they drove or would have drove our manufacturing base.
in effect ironically it's an example of ''trickle down economics'' that she advocated.she chose not to go down this path,benn saw the short sightedness of this and was subsequentally lablled a lefty dinosaur because of this..labour after foot were already careering down the path of reinvention like a drunk baby behind the wheel of a car..again ironically it was labour whilst in power that recognised the need economically to change ...
i think to perpetuate the myth that she never caved into unions is a little misleading..the first thing she did was to grant paydeals to the mining industry &the police,then continue to stockpile coal for the next few years..the miners was personal (i.m.o.)her party never forgave them for the heath debacle..what abbey posts i agree with.coal at the time was a viable concern with the right investment as were the steel industries..
where as i don't disagree with some of the points made..i think ppl have overlooked the recession was europe/worldwide..parts of europe continued to subsidise their manufacturing base and are now reaping the benefits..where as cutting everything and selling evrything off to fund tax cuts was a short term fix which has come back to haunt the uk in a massive way.i think ppl need to have a look at intrest rates,inflation and VAT fron 1979 onwards..
You are correct Thatcher stupidity has come back to haunt us all.
Thatcher off-shored manufacturing as a long term solution in her warped hateful eyes.. She rigged the free-market - LABOUR.
She squandered the greatest legacy given to the UK on unemployment benefit - North Sea oil. Her and those who followed her. were total and complete IDIOTS. The idiot Tories are back in power and again screwing up matters.
@boogybolls2 To a large extent I agree with you. I'm not a Thatcherite either, more playing devils advocate here to show that whilst Tony Benn is a nice and very intelligent man he is not the shining light in the darkness that many think he was. Thatcher went too far in following neo-liberalism and should have invested in emerging and/or core industries and wind the others down slower. But to keep on caving in to union power and throwing more money at dead industry was a damn waste.
@NearAbbeyRoad And I explained what the situation was that the government let go out of control. Britain in the late 1970s was a farce. Inflation over 15% was standard, even reaching 20%. Power cuts. Bin bags piling up. The economy went between recession and stagnation. Britain had to be humiliatingly bailed out by the IMF in 1976. And far from the rosy picture often presented unemployment was already going up and up.
In 1980 Benn said what he would like. "a Labour Government would grant powers to nationalise industries, control capital and implement industrial democracy; "within weeks", all powers from Brussels would be returned to Westminster and then they would abolish the House of Lords by creating one thousand peers and then abolishing the peerage."
Boy he was spot on!!! The PM we never had. Tony is a great influence on Michael Moore.
You call yourself a Soviet? Well that is another can of worms...Anyway. It was the only realistic policy in existence. She put the lefties in their place, as they were all stuck in the nostalgia of the Britian of old. Are you telling me that it would still have been feesable today to have all major industries nationalised?
I was active in all those years. Ultimately I had to admit that we lost. It's tragic and heart breaking, but the socialist train is a long way off........
@nakedmambo Labour would say we are, enough not to worry too much about the deficit anyway. And Thatcher wouldn't have spent quite so much money as Blair and Brown did... (whether it was right or wrong to do so is a different matter- but she wouldn't have done)
@thebigJM92 High public spending is not the main cause for economic collapse. you can have a budget deficit and still maintain a growing economy, just ask China. As long as the public spending is promoting growth and not propping up failed industry and welfare. The privatisation of all profitable industry in the UK in the last 30 years turned the public sector into a burden and made it an easy target for the government to propagate austerity measures against the public interest.
@arthmus01 China has more than $3 trillion of foreign currency reserves and has lent $1.2 trillion to the United States alone. Most of China's debt is extremely recent, after the government made a $1.1 trillion stimulus package in 2009, this was necessary because the authoritarian government needs to keep employment up or face rebellion (as it has staked its legitimacy on bringing China prosperity).
@arthmus01 And the whole point is that in the 70s the Labour government were throwing money at the failing industries hand-over-fist, newly developing companies were overtaxed in order to keep the old state monopolies from collapsing. Union barons enforced a strait-jacket on any sensible Labour politician and people like Tony Benn were arguing that the way out of the crisis was to give the unions MORE power and pour MORE money into these dead industries
@thebigJM92 But they weren't dead industries. Coal for example is one of China's biggest primary industries and the steelworks industry transformed some former soviet union states into leading industrial nations. They were targeted by tories in the UK because they were dominated by pro unionist workers, which provided greater power to Labour. Even functioning at a net loss, these industries provided services which promoted growth elsewhere, and provided jobs which reduced welfare dependence.
@arthmus01 I agree with you that the fact so many people were laid off so fast so close together has had awful consequences for the areas and people concerned, and also that the steel industry was at least salvageable and badly handled. But you only have to look at the coal industry in Britain to see it couldn't possibly compete with other nations. The only people buying the coal were British, particularly the government, and they were paying far more than they needed too.
"The only people buying the coal were British, particularly the government"
To create electricity. Thatcher closed it down, leaving 60 years worth under. Then against advice used finite natural gas to make electricity. It ran down and we import gas and the prices are now through the roof - many will die of hypothermia because of that silly woman. A 100% wasted legacy.
@arthmus01 You only have to look at the number of coal mines in operation between 1950 and 1974 to see there was a steady decline, even though they were nationalised and government was artificially making them more competitive than they really were. The increase in radical unionism in the early 1970s saw protests against further-and i emphasise further- coal mine closures lead to the toppling of a democratically elected government and a completely backward stance on mine closure slowdown
@arthmus01 Coal is one of China's biggest primary producers, and it kills thousands of workers a year and pays them a disgustingly low wage. Britain couldn't possibly compete on even double the cost they can sell it at.
"Even functioning at a net loss, these industries provided services which promoted growth elsewhere, and provided jobs which reduced welfare dependence."
And created economic growth. Knock-ons: less welfare, less crime, superior balance of payments, ports more active importing raw materials and exporting goods, etc.
Benn was crying fro INVESTMENT. Idiots Reagan & Thatcher for spite outsourced manufacturing to the east creating devastation driving down wages. They then saw wages were too low to create demand so expanded credit. The average UK & US families are now 3 time more in debt. Then the CRASH!
Ben was right in wanting investment into industries and keeping them going concerns.
@NearAbbeyRoad Higher wages means higher cost- unless efficiency is increased to mean that more can be produced per worker. This is achieved through the introduction of machinery etc and often leads to a decrease in the number of staff in any one employ. In the 60s the Unions became so powerful that their hardline against ANY job losses meant industries could not innovate or modernise. Yet unions also wanted the wage increases. So prices went up and up.
Only in wages and it is only a part of the cost. Thatcher rigged the free-market. She rigged Labour. LAND, CAPITAL, LABOUR - the 3 products of production.
@NearAbbeyRoad New industries were strangled by high corporation and income tax (that reached a farcically high 83%) discouraging foreign investment and stifling domestic innovation. All this tax was used to keep the nationalised industries afloat as they piled up more and more debt trying to balance the demand for ever increasing wage rises with the fact that no-one would buy our ever more expensive goods.
@NearAbbeyRoad Land Valuation Taxation works for a small island such as Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is little land, but what about a country with a large agricultural sector? Benn would have the government drive farmers out of business through tax in order to subsidise zombie industry. Not just economically unsound but fundamentally unjust. And income tax did reach 83% in the 70s. That is fact.
"Land Valuation Taxation works for a small island such as Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is little land, but what about a country with a large agricultural sector? "
@NearAbbeyRoad Governments let the situation spiral out of control into stagflation (stagnant economy and high inflation reaching 20%) because the unions dominated the Labour party and could hold democratically elected Conservative governments to ransom with concerted action (as happened to Heath in 1974). Now it reached the point that millions of people were in jobs that should not have existed. In Lancashire the non-nationalised cotton mills went in the 60s and people found other work
@NearAbbeyRoad But because the situation was left so long in nationalised industries it was too late for the people who worked in them to find other jobs. For most the opportunity had been and gone as investment went to others and Britain was called the sick man of Europe. Tony Benn called for more of the same, by a different name. Thatcher was too brutal to the north (of which I'm a part), the wind down should have been slower, more state support. But economically she was right and Benn wrong.
"The privatisation of all profitable industry in the UK in the last 30 years turned the public sector into a burden and made it an easy target for the government to propagate austerity measures against the public interest."
The public sector provide the services enabling the private sector create wealth.
@thebigJM92 Nonsense. Greece are up shit creek right now because they implemented an economy entirely dependent on the service industry, in their case tourism; demolishing what little productive industry they had. They then relaxed taxation laws to promote growth in the private sector, by relinquishing taxation on the highest earners. These ideals are synonymous with Thatcherite principles, and they are responsible for most of todays economic crisis.
Benn would have made the UK very rich. In the 1970s he advocated Land Valuation Taxation with reduced Income Tax. He turned to the left, after being in office in the 196/70s.
He wrote, "I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule"
@NearAbbeyRoad I don't doubt he is a very bright man. Clever and intelligent. Not surprising since he was the third in the long line of politicians in the Benn dynasty (which now extends to his son). I'm sure his father Viscount Stansgate would be very proud. None of this means he isn't wrong. Investment in industry is all well and good if it gives emerging industries a leg up. But Benn wanted to throw good money after bad at industries that were outmatched domestically and internationally/
@NearAbbeyRoad Please rescind the spurious accusation that I read the Daily Mail. You have no proof whatsoever to substantiate that argument and to be quite honest the idea that I might read said newspaper offends me. I also notice that you are starting to capitalise words rather alarmingly, suggesting anger and/or instability. My facts come from my History degree and my Economics A-level. Now to return to the comments you made...
@NearAbbeyRoad Industries starved of investment? British Leyland received billions of pounds of public money, but it could never survive because it was simply unable to make popular cars that were of either a good enough quality or a cheap enough price for people to want to buy. The trucks part of the operation remained profitable but all the profit was eaten up by government insistence that the company prop up the failing main business. Billions in subsidies were wasted.
@NearAbbeyRoad British Leyland DID receive what in modern terms would be billions of pounds of public money. If you deny that you are a liar. The coal industry did not create economic growth. From the 1950s onwards coal mines were being closed down because they were no longer needed. The number of miners was in rapid decline from 1960 onwards. Statistical facts. The only people buying coal were the British government and government run energy industry. They paid far more than they needed too
"The coal industry did not create economic growth."
The coal industry DID CREATE ECONOMIC GROWTH. When a whole industry, and its private support industries, is removed and the people not employed they effect of the economy is devastating.
Coal was firing power stations in turn creating economic growth. Your knowledge of economics is zero.
BL received money to keep it afloat because of private ownership ineptitude was running it into the ground - they creamed off and ran.
@NearAbbeyRoad If you cannot figure out a simple indirect subsidy then i'm afraid your economics is worse than mine. The coal industry created economic growth in the way the massively over-subsidised and bloated defence industry still does- ie in a way that could be done far cheaper differently. The reason the defence industry gets away with it is because it is necessary for national defence- the principal concern of a national government. Coal isn't and wasn't.
@NearAbbeyRoad Coal was firing power stations. But gas was far cheaper. Foreign coal was cheaper still. So buying British coal at far more expensive prices creating artificial demand where there was none was a massive subsidy. Private ownership did not run it into the ground. It was private ownership that created those mines in the first place in the Victorian and Edwardian era when they were profitable. When they were naturally no longer profitable they should have naturally shut down
Thatcher was told to preserve gas for primarily domestic use. The cow never, left 60 years of coal under and burnt finite gas. It has run out and now WE pay extortionate prices because it is imported.
Coal was NOT subsidized as it created economic growth. It could have been cheaper if more investment went into the machinery, but another matter. The growth created is cycled back to keep the creating mechanism operating. Anyone who has half a clue in economics will tell you that.
@NearAbbeyRoad This is going round in circles. We clearly are looking at this from different positions. You think they were viable industries by 1979 and I don't.
@NearAbbeyRoad It was too late for investment in those industries. It had been blocked when it was needed by hidebound and over-mighty unions who had squeezed every penny out of them and left them to rot by blocking reform. A double digit pay rise was the norm every year for miners
@NearAbbeyRoad Which in turn was passed on in the amount everyone had to pay for their energy bills. That was a massive indirect subsidy for the coal miners. Standards of living managed to keep up with the large increase in inflation only by keeping inflation rising even further- ever heard of the price/wage spiral? If Unions were the symptom not the root cause then what was? As for getting my money back I very much doubt that the government and the University of Manchester will be forthcoming
"That was a massive indirect subsidy for the coal miners. "
Your knowledge of economics is zero. Coal was NOT subsidized. The economic growth COAL (energy) and power generating was creating, was cycled back into the mechanisms that lay the base for economic growth creation.
@NearAbbeyRoad The coal industry (and by the way my great-grandfather was a coal miner near Wigan) was artificially subsidised by the inflated price people paid for their electricity because the government was forced by the mineworkers unions to buy coal from them far more expensively than they needed too. That was not only regressive but nationally stupid. Similarly all attempts to improve the efficiency of mines was blocked by the same unions who feared job losses.
@NearAbbeyRoad Any attempt to remedy the situation or combat the power of the unions was met by a show of force. I once again refer you to Heath's downfall in 1974. Rather than try and deal with the over-mighty power of the unions at the time Benn was eating up the crap they were coming out with, he would have only made the problem worse by throwing more money at dead industries. And where were we going to get the money from? More tax. It was that or borrowing, and look at what that's done
the problem is Labour went on (with Blair & Mandy as leaders) to be a party for the guardian reading left wing middle-class snobs rather than the working-man or skilled grafters as it should. They looked down on manufacturing & industrial work as "inferior" only cheap foreigners should do it that so they just topped up benefits instead. Labour destroyed meritocracy, introducted, top-up fees & now (just like the tories) encourages & supports servitude to the EUSSR.
Benn makes a good point about the consequence of selling off public assets. In result we now have ever increasing energy & water bills,house prices rocketed due to BTL bonaza meaning that more & more people cant afford to buy a home atleast until they reach their 40s.Closing the pits & shutting down manufacturing only meant that a generation of people would go on to be brought up in homes where nobody worked & dependent on benefits. the birth of the underclass also are economy is weak
I hate the Labour party along most of its Champagne socialist or marxist croonies. Tony Ben (if i say with some contempt) is a deeply smart man, he would of been better of as a writer or journalist rather than MP. More an Idealist then a realist however I do think a bit Jeremy Corbyn (who i also think is a bit of nut) he's intentions are noble & his concern geniune. Atleast with the Tory gov back then they had more busniessmen in their ranks than what we do now which is mostly toffs.
@FrLawRE because no-one was interested in listening to a clapped out old communist who personally ruined the British economy in the 1960s and just wanted to keep low-tech, loss-making industries going by government subsidy and borrowing to keep socialists in non-jobs so that they would vote Labour and keep communist politicians like him in power
@IlRezzonico Sounds just like France. Over here we have a top heavy public sector which costs the taxpayer loads of money and yet our governments, whether they be left or right wing, keep on whining about the country''s deficit. For example, there is no pay as you earn income tax scheme here. Oh no of course not! That would put thousands of people who work for the inland revenu out of a job! And the govt who did that would lose the next elections!
This is my favourite speech. It's incredibly relevant still. It's just a shame that his last point hasn't materialised. What a shite philosophy Thatcher infected us all with.
@marmitericecakes it was M.Thatcher that said "I am my brothers keeper." One must never assume sociaism to be the mentality of the masses at any given time ....nor should one assume that to raise capitol is the peoples perogative ....what warms the heart can also snatch bread (BREAD) from the mouths of starving children. Yes it will be unpleasant to hear your child say "mommy, why can't I have milk anymore?" but also unpleasant is the truth: mommy can afford milk ...but she wants new shoes.
@temporaldisplacement Are you seriously suggesting that a mother would prioritise a pair of shoes over the proper care of her children? Because I'm afraid such a mentality is guaranteed to be present in such a tiny proportion of the population that it can't be worth involvement in this discussion.
@marmitericecakes tony benn would have given thatcher a run for her money as leader. very clever debater and very knowledgeable about the world events and history.
Benn was right then and he's right now. "The price of everything and the value of nothing" is with us now. In all echelons of society. The only difference between the bankers and spivs and the rioters is that the former own the politicians who make the laws and so have no fear of prosecution
@Drumstoo Yeah,only ever as a M.P.The amount of time he has been in Parliament and the amount of free publicity he's had over the years,the guy should have been Prime Minister 10 times over.All these buffoon's who love to see themselves as the voice and soul of the people are never able to translate that into votes.FUNNY THAT!!!?
@coolsdon What do you mean, "funny that"? He stood in the Labour leadership campaign once. He is not "the voice and soul" of the majority of the UK electorate, nor did he ever proclaim to be. As an MP he oversaw some radical changes in UK law which improved civil liberties and quality-of-life for scores of people. You're surely not suggesting that a prime ministerial role is the only political job of worth?
@Drumstoo The guy has had more free publicity over the years than anyone I can think of,(mainly from the BBC and their lefty co-horts),it has been totally out preportion with his relevence/ importance.His pontification about 'working people' is straight out of the 1930's i.e unbelievably patronizing.No one wonder main stream socialists kept him at arms length,he's a buffoon.
@coolsdon Precisely how much more has he had in comparison to, for example, Ken Clarke? He has remained active in politics since he retired, as an outspoken opponent of the Iraq war, self-elected delegate to Saddam Hussain (the ONLY Western diplomat to attempt any negotiation in the build-up) and consistent proponent of human rights. Regardless of his power (or lack of) whilst a minister, his advocacy and campaigning for diplomacy, democracy and pluralism have been justifiably newsworthy.
The proof in the pudding would be seeing his expenses wouldn't it?Hasn't it occured to you that the expenses culture at Parliament is a form of BRIBERY?
There are RESTAURANTS in the commons and 14 bars and a music room....!
My aunts mother in law worked there as cleaner and she told her that a double scotch was 20p
If i was being paid £60,000 a year as a M.P I don't think I would be putting chocolate bars and cleaning of moats at my home on expenses.
An election court found that the voters were fully aware that Benn was disqualified, and declared the seat won by the Conservative runner-up, Malcolm St Clair, who was at the time also the heir presumptive to a peerage.''
ISN'T it intersting that his seat in 1960 was given to a conservative M.P who was also a peer even though he should have been disqualified as well.
I think the establishment had it's eye on Benn and hated what he stood for and denied him offices of state.
How come this silly old fart has been given a soapbox for so long when he represents no one ? He was a minister briefly in the sixties and that's about it!! If he speaks for working people (ha ha) how come the working classes never put him in power? the proof if the pudding etc!!
''In November 1960, Viscount Stansgate died, and as a result Benn automatically became a peer and was thus prevented from sitting in the House of Commons. Insisting on his right to abandon his peerage, Benn fought to retain his seat in a by-election caused by his succession on 4 May 1961. Although he was disqualified from taking his seat, the voters of Bristol South-East re-elected him regardless.
What was that about auctioning off public assests didnt Gordon Brown do that for quick cash? Yes. What was that about crippling trade unions, didnt Blair dump them in 1994? Yes. What was that about restriction on civil liberties, wasnt that... Blairs favourite thing to do with extended detentions, protest limitations and ID cards? Yes. The same goes for bureacratic cock ups causing hospital waiting lists, Blair, selling all our gold for peanuts, Brown. At least Thatcher won the wars she started.
@photonman666 that last bit about wars makes your entire argument sound ridiculous. the last vote i spoilt my ballot paper because i dont agree with so many things in the party i used to vote for. none of these debates, youtube discussions...anything are getting to the root cause of ALL of these problems all over the world. its GREED. plain simple greed.
Elected state nationalizes a compy or tax a bank it is unacceptable - billionaire cash buying land is acceptable. One company monopolizing a market, Murdoch; hail Capitalism.
US has state education is it socialist? Nordic countries are not socialist, and have many left-wing policies. All of these are a part of socialism; not exclusive to socialism.
Give up luxuries if we criticize Capitalism? We can criticize without being a pauper. Like hating HMG & wars but then told to leave the country
He was a tosser-born in wealth,went to Westminter School,started out as a liberal MP before becoming a "socalist", never worked for a living, friend of every middle eastern dictator,helped bankrupt British Leyland, went to the IMF after bankrupting us, loved central planning and state control, and in true Stalinist fashion even tried to doctor his own biography to be more "working class"
Typical "working class" leftist if you ask me..........
@dopplereffeckt675 Actually Ben said this of the IMF: "I was in the Labour Cabinet in 1976 when the IMF told us we had to cut £4 billion off our public expenditure. Denis Healey was the Chancellor, very fair man, wrote afterwards it wasn't necessary, it led to huge cuts in public expenditure which triggered the trouble over that winter [...] the conventional view that it was the left or the trade unions that destroyed the Labour government, I think it was the IMF myself".
@tommyd007 Smith was never anything more than Leader of The Opposition, McDonnell is obscure enough to have not had the chance to sell out yet, but i'll give you Johnson.
He mistakes the simple good nature of people wanting to help one another in a time of difficulty, with "socialism." People choose to help one another.....of their own volition....I am sure that many of those train goers were Conservative voters....maybe even Thatcher supporters!!
@xpat73 He was making a bigger point!!! That is to say that the good nature of people is praised, inspired and uplifted in a system that is a "good natured person writ large".
@xpat73 You should read Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments. People are more sympathetic than you argue and often sympathize regardless of their volition. IF i kicked someone in the balls, if you were a male, you would cringe as if your balls were hurt without even having a choice.
@hellsbells056 coz your a nobhead, and thatcher was a cunt,your rather a very rich person or you was born with a silver spoon up your arse,thatcher sold us off to the greedy capitalist profiteering,bastards the working class are at the mercy of now, go and lock yerself back in your attic and educate your self to the real world
@blowlamp666 I think using derogatory terms like that is not really the best way to win an argument. But that is your loss.....
We won the Falklands War, the NUM finally had its excessive power taken away in '84 and the country underwent an economic boom. Yes, in the mid 80s unemployment reached 3 million, but towards the end of her time in power this value was decreasing. The government was in desperate need of money, she sold off the nationalised industries instead of raising taxation.
Selling NATIONAL assets rather than raise taxation was stupid but part of the plans of the people who would benefit.I believe Mrs Thatcher thought people widely benefit from buying some of these shares but the reality is that money was the object and like gordon brown and the gold reserves,this been a fiasco.
Mrs Thatcher isn't a stupid woman and her government didn't care if the public had an 'equal' share because she wouldn't have privatised our utilities would they?
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC Think of how unpopular she would have been if she raised taxes. By keeping them relatively low she allowed the economy to flourish, while pumping money into the new generation - the yuppie. I think that is much better than having the younger proportion working in dying industries, which is what the Labour party would have wanted. The country's assets were in major, major decline anyway. They had been since before WW2. She only saved the government from future issues.
@hellsbells056 Well of the major moves in the day was the privatization of electricity, rails & oil/gas; Hardly dying industries. Only the coal mine closures and ship building industry downsizes makes some sense; Although even the former could have remained a powerful contributor to domestic value added had they invested in modernization.
Hm. Reminds me a bit of Fidel Castro's disastrous decision to gut the sugar industry in Cuba.
@Scientisticsoviet Think about it. Thatcher came to power in 1979 and the economy was in a mess partly because of mistakes made by the likes of Jim Callaghan and Denis Healey and because of the selfish acts of trade unionists who wanted to join the band wagon. Mrs Thatcher made the best decision, as financially Britian was in turmoil. The IMF crisis in 1976 for example.
@hellsbells056 As I had said before, I don't think they were the best moves for the British economy in the long run (I mean, look at the danger of having an over-dependence on finance). The breaking up of electricity has dramatically increased the amount of generation from natural gas as opposed to hydro or nuclear, due to a loss of scale economies due to the breakup of the national electric firm.
Rails are given are given subsidies anyways, despite being private too...
@Scientisticsoviet You call yourself a Soviet? Well that is just another can of worms....I suppose you are a student who considers himself to be 'radical and against the establishment.'
But anyway. Can you suggest a policy that would have been better to Thatchers? Thatcherism revolutuonised Britain's economy, and it allowed us to catch up with the Americans. We were lagging behind, and we had lefties who were stuck in the nostalgia of the Britian of old.....
1 Lawson deregulated the city - and we know now how that went
2. He also drastically reduced interest rates which in combination with the former, generated a property boom - mostly in the South - which all ended in tears in the early nineties.
Some things she did introduce that lasted were
Structural unemployment, something that has virtually devastated this country,
Greed is good - nuff said given this week's activities
Tony is a very bright principled man. American campaigner, Michael Moore, is a great admirer. I just wish Michael would adopt Tony's view on Land Value Tax and make a DVD on it.
Tony wasn't right about market forces. The free-market works. The Free-market is rigged. The CBI always whined about wanting cheap LABOUR, and got gvmts to rig the market. Latest is via immigration. LAND is rigged, 0.3% of the pop own 69% of the LAND. The restrictive planning laws ramp house prices - most of the value is the LAND..
Gvmts should ensure the free-market is not rigged or monopolised in LAND and LABOUR, rather than rigging it. Then implement Land Valuation Tax. We will all prosper.
@NearAbbeyRoad Never in the history of capitalism, going back 200 years to mercantile capitalism has there ever been a free market. No such thing ever existed nor does it today. It never "worked".
LAND was rigged as most was in the hands of the few, as is today. Landowners never paid tax on the land - they still do not hence why landowners are the richest in the UK.
god bless you benn
TheJaaysog 5 days ago
This country has ALWAYS has an utter contempt fro skill - under all governments. That's why the UK is a post-industrial, post-technical retarded country.
IlRezzonico 6 days ago
Thanks for uploading. This man is a prince.
hammersabc 4 weeks ago
Deja vú; in Sweden, the party leader of the Social Democratic Worker's Party(Labour's sister party), Håkan Juholt, is being attacked in the same way Tony Benn was attacked during the 80's.
Both Juholt and Benn have dared challenge neoliberalism, they have put forward an alternative to market fundamentalism, and the right-wing press in both Britain and Sweden have done everything they can to depose of them both; in Britain they succeeded, in Sweden the hunt is ongoing.
To hell with Murdoch.
atosafi1 1 month ago 5
He is so so right. Absolutely spot on.
SwordInAir 1 month ago
what a wonderful man - only 'recognized' once he's gone - a giant walking amongst us
stevenslava 1 month ago
Tony Benn is the Brian Clough of British politics - the best leader we never had (even though he was b4 my time)
cannockwolf1992 1 month ago
Look around you today, he saw what would happen and no-one believed him he was set up by the press as being a "looney Left" politician, but he was right on so many things. We need to hear him again and listen closely
HaywoodsCampaigner 1 month ago 2
Comment removed
ThatMattFuller 1 month ago
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Mr. Benn you are an UNBALENCED, RED PIG!!!
chrisclr 1 month ago
Spot on Tony, it was a privilige to meet you in 1992. We are now paying the price of Thatchersim, ripped off by privatised companies, no jobs for the youth, lost skills, Thatcher was a disaster for Britain.
m1trekker 1 month ago 4
Heard this wonderful man speak at a conference for A Level Politics students this year-- he spoke after Nigel Farage and the contrast between that snide, snivelling worm and this remarkable man was unbelievable. I had the privelige to ask him a question and he was kind and informative-- many of the other speakers didn't even answer what was asked.
theguycalledchris 1 month ago 4
The best prime minister we never had!
wildeman100 1 month ago 47
@wildeman100
...what?
Ste0wnz 1 week ago
@Ste0wnz What what?
wildeman100 1 week ago
What an awesome guy.
TallulahCocks 1 month ago 21
One of the many reasons I love this man and his ideology so much. A noticeably empty house merely highlights how little politicians of every political colour want to listen to the sensible voices of those who care about society. Sadly Tony Blair merely followed in Thatcher's footsteps. Greedy and selfish "attributes" will never get my vote..
TIMSY47 1 month ago 2
i love this guy
tart167 1 month ago
specific parts of nationalised indstries..and wage deals..by actually ''taking on'' various unions and pay deals..which in turn to the delight of various factions of the media..led to the dreadful soundbyte the winter of discontent..
i've seen benn speak a couple of times..he even acknowledges this himself.as near has said the video is almost prophetic
boogybolls2 1 month ago
..they drove or would have drove our manufacturing base.
in effect ironically it's an example of ''trickle down economics'' that she advocated.she chose not to go down this path,benn saw the short sightedness of this and was subsequentally lablled a lefty dinosaur because of this..labour after foot were already careering down the path of reinvention like a drunk baby behind the wheel of a car..again ironically it was labour whilst in power that recognised the need economically to change ...
boogybolls2 1 month ago
@the big..
i think to perpetuate the myth that she never caved into unions is a little misleading..the first thing she did was to grant paydeals to the mining industry &the police,then continue to stockpile coal for the next few years..the miners was personal (i.m.o.)her party never forgave them for the heath debacle..what abbey posts i agree with.coal at the time was a viable concern with the right investment as were the steel industries..
boogybolls2 1 month ago
where as i don't disagree with some of the points made..i think ppl have overlooked the recession was europe/worldwide..parts of europe continued to subsidise their manufacturing base and are now reaping the benefits..where as cutting everything and selling evrything off to fund tax cuts was a short term fix which has come back to haunt the uk in a massive way.i think ppl need to have a look at intrest rates,inflation and VAT fron 1979 onwards..
boogybolls2 1 month ago in playlist Liked videos
@boogybolls2
You are correct Thatcher stupidity has come back to haunt us all.
Thatcher off-shored manufacturing as a long term solution in her warped hateful eyes.. She rigged the free-market - LABOUR.
She squandered the greatest legacy given to the UK on unemployment benefit - North Sea oil. Her and those who followed her. were total and complete IDIOTS. The idiot Tories are back in power and again screwing up matters.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@boogybolls2 To a large extent I agree with you. I'm not a Thatcherite either, more playing devils advocate here to show that whilst Tony Benn is a nice and very intelligent man he is not the shining light in the darkness that many think he was. Thatcher went too far in following neo-liberalism and should have invested in emerging and/or core industries and wind the others down slower. But to keep on caving in to union power and throwing more money at dead industry was a damn waste.
thebigJM92 1 month ago
@thebigJM92
" Tony Benn is a nice and very intelligent man he is not the shining light in the darkness that many think he was. "
He was very phrophetic.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
Tony Benn is a great human being.
Scottishake 2 months ago 2
@thebigJM92
"Governments let the situation spiral out of control "
What situation might that be?
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad And I explained what the situation was that the government let go out of control. Britain in the late 1970s was a farce. Inflation over 15% was standard, even reaching 20%. Power cuts. Bin bags piling up. The economy went between recession and stagnation. Britain had to be humiliatingly bailed out by the IMF in 1976. And far from the rosy picture often presented unemployment was already going up and up.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"Britain in the late 1970s was a farce. "
Total drivel. The standard of living rose dramatically in the 1970s.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
In 1980 Benn said what he would like. "a Labour Government would grant powers to nationalise industries, control capital and implement industrial democracy; "within weeks", all powers from Brussels would be returned to Westminster and then they would abolish the House of Lords by creating one thousand peers and then abolishing the peerage."
Boy he was spot on!!! The PM we never had. Tony is a great influence on Michael Moore.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
Why has this video been edited... it's the bad that has been.......' where did it go?
BenoitBenn 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
Where the hell is everyone?
peter0100100 3 months ago
You call yourself a Soviet? Well that is another can of worms...Anyway. It was the only realistic policy in existence. She put the lefties in their place, as they were all stuck in the nostalgia of the Britian of old. Are you telling me that it would still have been feesable today to have all major industries nationalised?
hellsbells056 3 months ago
I was active in all those years. Ultimately I had to admit that we lost. It's tragic and heart breaking, but the socialist train is a long way off........
tanpiltanpil 3 months ago
A very religious person too. Good to see that religion and conservatism haven't been fused together in the UK, like they have been in the US.
leizuoer 3 months ago
here here Benn
kinkyplunk 3 months ago
Benn was an overpriviledged windbag.
wks1978 4 months ago
who does the proposed philosophy benefit
colinthomashoare 4 months ago
God forbid if this man had been Prime Minister in 1979. We'd have been in a worse place than Greece now, as we nearly were then
thebigJM92 5 months ago
@thebigJM92 Whereas after three terms of Thatcher, one of Major and three of the Thatcher-worshipping Tory Blair, we're absolutely rock solid.
nakedmambo 5 months ago
@nakedmambo Labour would say we are, enough not to worry too much about the deficit anyway. And Thatcher wouldn't have spent quite so much money as Blair and Brown did... (whether it was right or wrong to do so is a different matter- but she wouldn't have done)
thebigJM92 5 months ago
@thebigJM92 High public spending is not the main cause for economic collapse. you can have a budget deficit and still maintain a growing economy, just ask China. As long as the public spending is promoting growth and not propping up failed industry and welfare. The privatisation of all profitable industry in the UK in the last 30 years turned the public sector into a burden and made it an easy target for the government to propagate austerity measures against the public interest.
arthmus01 3 months ago
@arthmus01 China has more than $3 trillion of foreign currency reserves and has lent $1.2 trillion to the United States alone. Most of China's debt is extremely recent, after the government made a $1.1 trillion stimulus package in 2009, this was necessary because the authoritarian government needs to keep employment up or face rebellion (as it has staked its legitimacy on bringing China prosperity).
thebigJM92 3 months ago
@arthmus01 And the whole point is that in the 70s the Labour government were throwing money at the failing industries hand-over-fist, newly developing companies were overtaxed in order to keep the old state monopolies from collapsing. Union barons enforced a strait-jacket on any sensible Labour politician and people like Tony Benn were arguing that the way out of the crisis was to give the unions MORE power and pour MORE money into these dead industries
thebigJM92 3 months ago
@thebigJM92 But they weren't dead industries. Coal for example is one of China's biggest primary industries and the steelworks industry transformed some former soviet union states into leading industrial nations. They were targeted by tories in the UK because they were dominated by pro unionist workers, which provided greater power to Labour. Even functioning at a net loss, these industries provided services which promoted growth elsewhere, and provided jobs which reduced welfare dependence.
arthmus01 3 months ago
@arthmus01 I agree with you that the fact so many people were laid off so fast so close together has had awful consequences for the areas and people concerned, and also that the steel industry was at least salvageable and badly handled. But you only have to look at the coal industry in Britain to see it couldn't possibly compete with other nations. The only people buying the coal were British, particularly the government, and they were paying far more than they needed too.
thebigJM92 3 months ago
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@thebigJM92
"The only people buying the coal were British, particularly the government"
To create electricity. Thatcher closed it down, leaving 60 years worth under. Then against advice used finite natural gas to make electricity. It ran down and we import gas and the prices are now through the roof - many will die of hypothermia because of that silly woman. A 100% wasted legacy.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@arthmus01 You only have to look at the number of coal mines in operation between 1950 and 1974 to see there was a steady decline, even though they were nationalised and government was artificially making them more competitive than they really were. The increase in radical unionism in the early 1970s saw protests against further-and i emphasise further- coal mine closures lead to the toppling of a democratically elected government and a completely backward stance on mine closure slowdown
thebigJM92 3 months ago
@arthmus01 Coal is one of China's biggest primary producers, and it kills thousands of workers a year and pays them a disgustingly low wage. Britain couldn't possibly compete on even double the cost they can sell it at.
thebigJM92 3 months ago
@arthmus01
"Even functioning at a net loss, these industries provided services which promoted growth elsewhere, and provided jobs which reduced welfare dependence."
And created economic growth. Knock-ons: less welfare, less crime, superior balance of payments, ports more active importing raw materials and exporting goods, etc.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"pour MORE money into these dead industries"
Benn was crying fro INVESTMENT. Idiots Reagan & Thatcher for spite outsourced manufacturing to the east creating devastation driving down wages. They then saw wages were too low to create demand so expanded credit. The average UK & US families are now 3 time more in debt. Then the CRASH!
Ben was right in wanting investment into industries and keeping them going concerns.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Higher wages means higher cost- unless efficiency is increased to mean that more can be produced per worker. This is achieved through the introduction of machinery etc and often leads to a decrease in the number of staff in any one employ. In the 60s the Unions became so powerful that their hardline against ANY job losses meant industries could not innovate or modernise. Yet unions also wanted the wage increases. So prices went up and up.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"Higher wages means higher cost"
Only in wages and it is only a part of the cost. Thatcher rigged the free-market. She rigged Labour. LAND, CAPITAL, LABOUR - the 3 products of production.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad New industries were strangled by high corporation and income tax (that reached a farcically high 83%) discouraging foreign investment and stifling domestic innovation. All this tax was used to keep the nationalised industries afloat as they piled up more and more debt trying to balance the demand for ever increasing wage rises with the fact that no-one would buy our ever more expensive goods.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
" New industries were strangled by high corporation and income tax (that reached a farcically high 83%)"
They were not you read that from the Daily Mail.
Tony Benn was for Land Valuation Taxation, which reduces Income Tax and Corporation tax as in Hong Kong. HK was a colony at the time.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Land Valuation Taxation works for a small island such as Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is little land, but what about a country with a large agricultural sector? Benn would have the government drive farmers out of business through tax in order to subsidise zombie industry. Not just economically unsound but fundamentally unjust. And income tax did reach 83% in the 70s. That is fact.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
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@thebigJM92
"Land Valuation Taxation works for a small island such as Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is little land, but what about a country with a large agricultural sector? "
It would work even better.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Governments let the situation spiral out of control into stagflation (stagnant economy and high inflation reaching 20%) because the unions dominated the Labour party and could hold democratically elected Conservative governments to ransom with concerted action (as happened to Heath in 1974). Now it reached the point that millions of people were in jobs that should not have existed. In Lancashire the non-nationalised cotton mills went in the 60s and people found other work
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad But because the situation was left so long in nationalised industries it was too late for the people who worked in them to find other jobs. For most the opportunity had been and gone as investment went to others and Britain was called the sick man of Europe. Tony Benn called for more of the same, by a different name. Thatcher was too brutal to the north (of which I'm a part), the wind down should have been slower, more state support. But economically she was right and Benn wrong.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"Tony Benn called for more of the same, by a different name"
Tony Benn called fro investment in industry where there was none. A very sensible thing to do.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@arthmus01
"The privatisation of all profitable industry in the UK in the last 30 years turned the public sector into a burden and made it an easy target for the government to propagate austerity measures against the public interest."
The public sector provide the services enabling the private sector create wealth.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@nakedmambo
"Whereas after three terms of Thatcher, one of Major and three of the Thatcher-worshipping Tory Blair, we're absolutely rock solid"
Have you ever heard of the Credit Crunch?
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@thebigJM92 Nonsense. Greece are up shit creek right now because they implemented an economy entirely dependent on the service industry, in their case tourism; demolishing what little productive industry they had. They then relaxed taxation laws to promote growth in the private sector, by relinquishing taxation on the highest earners. These ideals are synonymous with Thatcherite principles, and they are responsible for most of todays economic crisis.
arthmus01 3 months ago
@thebigJM92
Benn would have made the UK very rich. In the 1970s he advocated Land Valuation Taxation with reduced Income Tax. He turned to the left, after being in office in the 196/70s.
He wrote, "I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule"
He saw it coming decades ago. A VERY BRIGHT MAN
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad I don't doubt he is a very bright man. Clever and intelligent. Not surprising since he was the third in the long line of politicians in the Benn dynasty (which now extends to his son). I'm sure his father Viscount Stansgate would be very proud. None of this means he isn't wrong. Investment in industry is all well and good if it gives emerging industries a leg up. But Benn wanted to throw good money after bad at industries that were outmatched domestically and internationally/
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"But Benn wanted to throw good money after bad at industries that were outmatched domestically and internationally"
You are a Daily Mail brainwashed idiot! Tony Benn wanted INVESTMENT in industries starved of it.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Please rescind the spurious accusation that I read the Daily Mail. You have no proof whatsoever to substantiate that argument and to be quite honest the idea that I might read said newspaper offends me. I also notice that you are starting to capitalise words rather alarmingly, suggesting anger and/or instability. My facts come from my History degree and my Economics A-level. Now to return to the comments you made...
thebigJM92 2 months ago
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@thebigJM92
"My facts come from my History degree and my Economics A-level. "
Get your money back.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Industries starved of investment? British Leyland received billions of pounds of public money, but it could never survive because it was simply unable to make popular cars that were of either a good enough quality or a cheap enough price for people to want to buy. The trucks part of the operation remained profitable but all the profit was eaten up by government insistence that the company prop up the failing main business. Billions in subsidies were wasted.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"British Leyland received billions of pounds of public money,"
Absolute nonsense.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad British Leyland DID receive what in modern terms would be billions of pounds of public money. If you deny that you are a liar. The coal industry did not create economic growth. From the 1950s onwards coal mines were being closed down because they were no longer needed. The number of miners was in rapid decline from 1960 onwards. Statistical facts. The only people buying coal were the British government and government run energy industry. They paid far more than they needed too
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"The coal industry did not create economic growth."
The coal industry DID CREATE ECONOMIC GROWTH. When a whole industry, and its private support industries, is removed and the people not employed they effect of the economy is devastating.
Coal was firing power stations in turn creating economic growth. Your knowledge of economics is zero.
BL received money to keep it afloat because of private ownership ineptitude was running it into the ground - they creamed off and ran.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad If you cannot figure out a simple indirect subsidy then i'm afraid your economics is worse than mine. The coal industry created economic growth in the way the massively over-subsidised and bloated defence industry still does- ie in a way that could be done far cheaper differently. The reason the defence industry gets away with it is because it is necessary for national defence- the principal concern of a national government. Coal isn't and wasn't.
thebigJM92 1 month ago
@thebigJM92
You cannot figure out what crates economic growth but is not viable on sale or ticket price. However in the whole cycle is highly profitable.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Coal was firing power stations. But gas was far cheaper. Foreign coal was cheaper still. So buying British coal at far more expensive prices creating artificial demand where there was none was a massive subsidy. Private ownership did not run it into the ground. It was private ownership that created those mines in the first place in the Victorian and Edwardian era when they were profitable. When they were naturally no longer profitable they should have naturally shut down
thebigJM92 1 month ago
@thebigJM92
Thatcher was told to preserve gas for primarily domestic use. The cow never, left 60 years of coal under and burnt finite gas. It has run out and now WE pay extortionate prices because it is imported.
Coal was NOT subsidized as it created economic growth. It could have been cheaper if more investment went into the machinery, but another matter. The growth created is cycled back to keep the creating mechanism operating. Anyone who has half a clue in economics will tell you that.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad This is going round in circles. We clearly are looking at this from different positions. You think they were viable industries by 1979 and I don't.
thebigJM92 1 month ago
@thebigJM92
The industries were viable if they had investment - it is that simple. Any dope can figure that out.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad It was too late for investment in those industries. It had been blocked when it was needed by hidebound and over-mighty unions who had squeezed every penny out of them and left them to rot by blocking reform. A double digit pay rise was the norm every year for miners
thebigJM92 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Which in turn was passed on in the amount everyone had to pay for their energy bills. That was a massive indirect subsidy for the coal miners. Standards of living managed to keep up with the large increase in inflation only by keeping inflation rising even further- ever heard of the price/wage spiral? If Unions were the symptom not the root cause then what was? As for getting my money back I very much doubt that the government and the University of Manchester will be forthcoming
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"That was a massive indirect subsidy for the coal miners. "
Your knowledge of economics is zero. Coal was NOT subsidized. The economic growth COAL (energy) and power generating was creating, was cycled back into the mechanisms that lay the base for economic growth creation.
You can't figure out something so simple.
NearAbbeyRoad 1 month ago
@NearAbbeyRoad The coal industry (and by the way my great-grandfather was a coal miner near Wigan) was artificially subsidised by the inflated price people paid for their electricity because the government was forced by the mineworkers unions to buy coal from them far more expensively than they needed too. That was not only regressive but nationally stupid. Similarly all attempts to improve the efficiency of mines was blocked by the same unions who feared job losses.
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"The coal industry (and by the way my great-grandfather was a coal miner near Wigan) was artificially subsidised"
The coal industry created economic growth. The growth was not cycled back into the industry to keep it going.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Any attempt to remedy the situation or combat the power of the unions was met by a show of force. I once again refer you to Heath's downfall in 1974. Rather than try and deal with the over-mighty power of the unions at the time Benn was eating up the crap they were coming out with, he would have only made the problem worse by throwing more money at dead industries. And where were we going to get the money from? More tax. It was that or borrowing, and look at what that's done
thebigJM92 2 months ago
@thebigJM92
"Any attempt to remedy the situation or combat the power of the unions was met by a show of force."
Unions were the symptom not the root cause. Get your money back on your education.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
why wasn't this guy the Leader of Labour? we needed him then and we need him now!
0ct0parr0t 5 months ago
Compare this to Ed Miliband.
Why are there no politicians like this any more?
CrixMakin 5 months ago 6
Tony Benn is one of the greatest men of all time. I cry tears of joy when I hear his voice.
TheDensley7 5 months ago 27
the problem is Labour went on (with Blair & Mandy as leaders) to be a party for the guardian reading left wing middle-class snobs rather than the working-man or skilled grafters as it should. They looked down on manufacturing & industrial work as "inferior" only cheap foreigners should do it that so they just topped up benefits instead. Labour destroyed meritocracy, introducted, top-up fees & now (just like the tories) encourages & supports servitude to the EUSSR.
LibertarianUK 5 months ago
@LibertarianUK you are right there, Labour are now the Tories without the conviction.
Threepwoodist 5 months ago
@LibertarianUK
"They looked down on manufacturing & industrial work as "inferior""
Well there was nothing to look down on, Thatcher closed industry down.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
Benn makes a good point about the consequence of selling off public assets. In result we now have ever increasing energy & water bills,house prices rocketed due to BTL bonaza meaning that more & more people cant afford to buy a home atleast until they reach their 40s.Closing the pits & shutting down manufacturing only meant that a generation of people would go on to be brought up in homes where nobody worked & dependent on benefits. the birth of the underclass also are economy is weak
LibertarianUK 5 months ago
I hate the Labour party along most of its Champagne socialist or marxist croonies. Tony Ben (if i say with some contempt) is a deeply smart man, he would of been better of as a writer or journalist rather than MP. More an Idealist then a realist however I do think a bit Jeremy Corbyn (who i also think is a bit of nut) he's intentions are noble & his concern geniune. Atleast with the Tory gov back then they had more busniessmen in their ranks than what we do now which is mostly toffs.
LibertarianUK 5 months ago
Why is the House almost empty?
FrLawRE 5 months ago
@FrLawRE because no-one was interested in listening to a clapped out old communist who personally ruined the British economy in the 1960s and just wanted to keep low-tech, loss-making industries going by government subsidy and borrowing to keep socialists in non-jobs so that they would vote Labour and keep communist politicians like him in power
IlRezzonico 5 months ago
@IlRezzonico Sounds just like France. Over here we have a top heavy public sector which costs the taxpayer loads of money and yet our governments, whether they be left or right wing, keep on whining about the country''s deficit. For example, there is no pay as you earn income tax scheme here. Oh no of course not! That would put thousands of people who work for the inland revenu out of a job! And the govt who did that would lose the next elections!
FrLawRE 5 months ago
@IlRezzonico
"because no-one was interested in listening to a clapped out old communist who personally ruined the British economy in the 1960s"
Sir, your knowledge of British social history and economics is sadly lacking indeed.
NearAbbeyRoad 2 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad It was an ironic reply. See the post I was replying to, by 'thebigJM92'.
nakedmambo 2 months ago
This is my favourite speech. It's incredibly relevant still. It's just a shame that his last point hasn't materialised. What a shite philosophy Thatcher infected us all with.
marmitericecakes 6 months ago 35
@marmitericecakes it was M.Thatcher that said "I am my brothers keeper." One must never assume sociaism to be the mentality of the masses at any given time ....nor should one assume that to raise capitol is the peoples perogative ....what warms the heart can also snatch bread (BREAD) from the mouths of starving children. Yes it will be unpleasant to hear your child say "mommy, why can't I have milk anymore?" but also unpleasant is the truth: mommy can afford milk ...but she wants new shoes.
temporaldisplacement 5 months ago
@temporaldisplacement Are you seriously suggesting that a mother would prioritise a pair of shoes over the proper care of her children? Because I'm afraid such a mentality is guaranteed to be present in such a tiny proportion of the population that it can't be worth involvement in this discussion.
Makashi11 5 months ago
@Makashi11 Then your eyes wil forever be blind to what I have seen.
temporaldisplacement 5 months ago
Comment removed
SwordInAir 5 months ago
@marmitericecakes tony benn would have given thatcher a run for her money as leader. very clever debater and very knowledgeable about the world events and history.
TheGreatPerahia 3 months ago
Benn was right then and he's right now. "The price of everything and the value of nothing" is with us now. In all echelons of society. The only difference between the bankers and spivs and the rioters is that the former own the politicians who make the laws and so have no fear of prosecution
sonofcy 6 months ago 2
@coolsdon The public did put him power, repeatedly.
Drumstoo 6 months ago
@Drumstoo Yeah,only ever as a M.P.The amount of time he has been in Parliament and the amount of free publicity he's had over the years,the guy should have been Prime Minister 10 times over.All these buffoon's who love to see themselves as the voice and soul of the people are never able to translate that into votes.FUNNY THAT!!!?
coolsdon 6 months ago
@coolsdon He could well have been prime minister, If the circumstances had been somewhat different, A real shame really
xmoroseguyx 6 months ago
@coolsdon What do you mean, "funny that"? He stood in the Labour leadership campaign once. He is not "the voice and soul" of the majority of the UK electorate, nor did he ever proclaim to be. As an MP he oversaw some radical changes in UK law which improved civil liberties and quality-of-life for scores of people. You're surely not suggesting that a prime ministerial role is the only political job of worth?
Drumstoo 5 months ago
@Drumstoo The guy has had more free publicity over the years than anyone I can think of,(mainly from the BBC and their lefty co-horts),it has been totally out preportion with his relevence/ importance.His pontification about 'working people' is straight out of the 1930's i.e unbelievably patronizing.No one wonder main stream socialists kept him at arms length,he's a buffoon.
coolsdon 5 months ago
@coolsdon Precisely how much more has he had in comparison to, for example, Ken Clarke? He has remained active in politics since he retired, as an outspoken opponent of the Iraq war, self-elected delegate to Saddam Hussain (the ONLY Western diplomat to attempt any negotiation in the build-up) and consistent proponent of human rights. Regardless of his power (or lack of) whilst a minister, his advocacy and campaigning for diplomacy, democracy and pluralism have been justifiably newsworthy.
Drumstoo 5 months ago
During decades of MPs ripping off the expenses system, "man of conscience" kept his mouth shut. Hypocrit.
barnbersonol 6 months ago
@barnbersonol
If that was true WHY did he lead legislation to reject his title then?
If he wasn't a 'man of conscience' as you accuse him of being WHY would he bother?
He could easily have climbed the greasy poll and joined in with the rest of them at their feeding trough couldn't he?
The fact he didn't shows he wouldn't be bought or corrupted and god bless him for that.
i suggest you look him up on wickipedia.
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC No direct come back to my specific point, then. Wonder why!
barnbersonol 6 months ago
@barnbersonol
What did you say?I cannot see it on the screen or email.
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
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@barnbersonol
WHAT was your specific point?
This is what you said....''During decades of MPs ripping off the expenses system, "man of conscience" kept his mouth shut. Hypocrit.''
This is not an argument,just a rant.
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
@barnbersonol
The proof in the pudding would be seeing his expenses wouldn't it?Hasn't it occured to you that the expenses culture at Parliament is a form of BRIBERY?
There are RESTAURANTS in the commons and 14 bars and a music room....!
My aunts mother in law worked there as cleaner and she told her that a double scotch was 20p
If i was being paid £60,000 a year as a M.P I don't think I would be putting chocolate bars and cleaning of moats at my home on expenses.
how can you
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
How can you accuse anyone of corruption without proof?
It is easy to accuse somebody you don't like of a crime isn't it?
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
An election court found that the voters were fully aware that Benn was disqualified, and declared the seat won by the Conservative runner-up, Malcolm St Clair, who was at the time also the heir presumptive to a peerage.''
ISN'T it intersting that his seat in 1960 was given to a conservative M.P who was also a peer even though he should have been disqualified as well.
I think the establishment had it's eye on Benn and hated what he stood for and denied him offices of state.
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
How come this silly old fart has been given a soapbox for so long when he represents no one ? He was a minister briefly in the sixties and that's about it!! If he speaks for working people (ha ha) how come the working classes never put him in power? the proof if the pudding etc!!
coolsdon 6 months ago
@coolsdon
This is from the wikipedia page about Tony Benn:
''In November 1960, Viscount Stansgate died, and as a result Benn automatically became a peer and was thus prevented from sitting in the House of Commons. Insisting on his right to abandon his peerage, Benn fought to retain his seat in a by-election caused by his succession on 4 May 1961. Although he was disqualified from taking his seat, the voters of Bristol South-East re-elected him regardless.
t.b.c
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
What was that about auctioning off public assests didnt Gordon Brown do that for quick cash? Yes. What was that about crippling trade unions, didnt Blair dump them in 1994? Yes. What was that about restriction on civil liberties, wasnt that... Blairs favourite thing to do with extended detentions, protest limitations and ID cards? Yes. The same goes for bureacratic cock ups causing hospital waiting lists, Blair, selling all our gold for peanuts, Brown. At least Thatcher won the wars she started.
photonman666 7 months ago
@photonman666 that last bit about wars makes your entire argument sound ridiculous. the last vote i spoilt my ballot paper because i dont agree with so many things in the party i used to vote for. none of these debates, youtube discussions...anything are getting to the root cause of ALL of these problems all over the world. its GREED. plain simple greed.
colinthomashoare 6 months ago 2
@colinthomashoare Precisely. What can anyone reasonably do with a salary over £150k?
Drumstoo 5 months ago
Blah blah blah! Superb sub-Statesman. I love Benn!
pastrychef1985 7 months ago
Over reliance on land, property and mortgages weakens economic structures and makes companies vulnerable to economic collapse.
NearAbbeyRoad 7 months ago
Elected state nationalizes a compy or tax a bank it is unacceptable - billionaire cash buying land is acceptable. One company monopolizing a market, Murdoch; hail Capitalism.
US has state education is it socialist? Nordic countries are not socialist, and have many left-wing policies. All of these are a part of socialism; not exclusive to socialism.
Give up luxuries if we criticize Capitalism? We can criticize without being a pauper. Like hating HMG & wars but then told to leave the country
NearAbbeyRoad 7 months ago
@BOZ11
Look at the LABOUR LAND CAMPAIGN. Also the LibDems ALTER Group. Look at the web sites and get the message.
NearAbbeyRoad 7 months ago
After 13 years of Labour, you realise what alod of shit
Dalek1230 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 13 years of neoliberal New Labour*
atosafi1 7 months ago
@Dalek1230 Tony Benn does not approve of New Labour
BOZ11 7 months ago
Anthony Wedgewood Benn. What a tosser.
chanctonbury63 7 months ago
@chanctonbury63
He was a tosser-born in wealth,went to Westminter School,started out as a liberal MP before becoming a "socalist", never worked for a living, friend of every middle eastern dictator,helped bankrupt British Leyland, went to the IMF after bankrupting us, loved central planning and state control, and in true Stalinist fashion even tried to doctor his own biography to be more "working class"
Typical "working class" leftist if you ask me..........
dopplereffeckt675 7 months ago
@dopplereffeckt675 I don't know where you got your information from, but you're wrong.
atosafi1 7 months ago
@dopplereffeckt675 Actually Ben said this of the IMF: "I was in the Labour Cabinet in 1976 when the IMF told us we had to cut £4 billion off our public expenditure. Denis Healey was the Chancellor, very fair man, wrote afterwards it wasn't necessary, it led to huge cuts in public expenditure which triggered the trouble over that winter [...] the conventional view that it was the left or the trade unions that destroyed the Labour government, I think it was the IMF myself".
BOZ11 7 months ago
I love Tony Benn. Him & Mo Mowlam are the only politicians of note who had any integrity.
billingtonmarc25 8 months ago
@billingtonmarc25 what about John Smith? Or current MPs like John McDonnell or Alan Johnson?
tommyd007 8 months ago
@tommyd007 Smith was never anything more than Leader of The Opposition, McDonnell is obscure enough to have not had the chance to sell out yet, but i'll give you Johnson.
billingtonmarc25 8 months ago
Regarding Benn's socialist train comment.
He mistakes the simple good nature of people wanting to help one another in a time of difficulty, with "socialism." People choose to help one another.....of their own volition....I am sure that many of those train goers were Conservative voters....maybe even Thatcher supporters!!
xpat73 8 months ago
@xpat73 He was making a bigger point!!! That is to say that the good nature of people is praised, inspired and uplifted in a system that is a "good natured person writ large".
REASONINFUSION 8 months ago
@xpat73 You should read Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments. People are more sympathetic than you argue and often sympathize regardless of their volition. IF i kicked someone in the balls, if you were a male, you would cringe as if your balls were hurt without even having a choice.
Tougemaster06 8 months ago
I am a UKIP supporter, and a believer in Thatcherism.
But out of all of the Labour and socialist politicians our country has produced, I have the most admiration for Tony Benn.
hellsbells056 8 months ago 2
@hellsbells056 coz your a nobhead, and thatcher was a cunt,your rather a very rich person or you was born with a silver spoon up your arse,thatcher sold us off to the greedy capitalist profiteering,bastards the working class are at the mercy of now, go and lock yerself back in your attic and educate your self to the real world
blowlamp666 6 months ago
@blowlamp666 I think using derogatory terms like that is not really the best way to win an argument. But that is your loss.....
We won the Falklands War, the NUM finally had its excessive power taken away in '84 and the country underwent an economic boom. Yes, in the mid 80s unemployment reached 3 million, but towards the end of her time in power this value was decreasing. The government was in desperate need of money, she sold off the nationalised industries instead of raising taxation.
hellsbells056 6 months ago
@hellsbells056
Selling NATIONAL assets rather than raise taxation was stupid but part of the plans of the people who would benefit.I believe Mrs Thatcher thought people widely benefit from buying some of these shares but the reality is that money was the object and like gordon brown and the gold reserves,this been a fiasco.
Mrs Thatcher isn't a stupid woman and her government didn't care if the public had an 'equal' share because she wouldn't have privatised our utilities would they?
BLUESGUITARMANIAC 6 months ago
@BLUESGUITARMANIAC Think of how unpopular she would have been if she raised taxes. By keeping them relatively low she allowed the economy to flourish, while pumping money into the new generation - the yuppie. I think that is much better than having the younger proportion working in dying industries, which is what the Labour party would have wanted. The country's assets were in major, major decline anyway. They had been since before WW2. She only saved the government from future issues.
hellsbells056 6 months ago
@hellsbells056 Well of the major moves in the day was the privatization of electricity, rails & oil/gas; Hardly dying industries. Only the coal mine closures and ship building industry downsizes makes some sense; Although even the former could have remained a powerful contributor to domestic value added had they invested in modernization.
Hm. Reminds me a bit of Fidel Castro's disastrous decision to gut the sugar industry in Cuba.
Scientisticsoviet 6 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet Think about it. Thatcher came to power in 1979 and the economy was in a mess partly because of mistakes made by the likes of Jim Callaghan and Denis Healey and because of the selfish acts of trade unionists who wanted to join the band wagon. Mrs Thatcher made the best decision, as financially Britian was in turmoil. The IMF crisis in 1976 for example.
hellsbells056 3 months ago
@hellsbells056 As I had said before, I don't think they were the best moves for the British economy in the long run (I mean, look at the danger of having an over-dependence on finance). The breaking up of electricity has dramatically increased the amount of generation from natural gas as opposed to hydro or nuclear, due to a loss of scale economies due to the breakup of the national electric firm.
Rails are given are given subsidies anyways, despite being private too...
Scientisticsoviet 3 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet You call yourself a Soviet? Well that is just another can of worms....I suppose you are a student who considers himself to be 'radical and against the establishment.'
But anyway. Can you suggest a policy that would have been better to Thatchers? Thatcherism revolutuonised Britain's economy, and it allowed us to catch up with the Americans. We were lagging behind, and we had lefties who were stuck in the nostalgia of the Britian of old.....
hellsbells056 3 months ago
@hellsbells056 The country boomed for two reasons,
1 Lawson deregulated the city - and we know now how that went
2. He also drastically reduced interest rates which in combination with the former, generated a property boom - mostly in the South - which all ended in tears in the early nineties.
Some things she did introduce that lasted were
Structural unemployment, something that has virtually devastated this country,
Greed is good - nuff said given this week's activities
sonofcy 6 months ago
The train broke down - so it was a socialist train. Just like the train where the crew don't turn up.
IlRezzonico 9 months ago
@IlRezzonico The trains have been privatised in the UK and they are in poorer condition now than when publicly run
BOZ11 7 months ago
In and out of Parliament, he's a giant among dwarves when it comes to other British politicians.
GusF 9 months ago 8
Truth will out, Tony.
lgvhnI5s 9 months ago
Tony is a very bright principled man. American campaigner, Michael Moore, is a great admirer. I just wish Michael would adopt Tony's view on Land Value Tax and make a DVD on it.
NearAbbeyRoad 9 months ago
Tony wasn't right about market forces. The free-market works. The Free-market is rigged. The CBI always whined about wanting cheap LABOUR, and got gvmts to rig the market. Latest is via immigration. LAND is rigged, 0.3% of the pop own 69% of the LAND. The restrictive planning laws ramp house prices - most of the value is the LAND..
Gvmts should ensure the free-market is not rigged or monopolised in LAND and LABOUR, rather than rigging it. Then implement Land Valuation Tax. We will all prosper.
NearAbbeyRoad 9 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad I had a dream that I sex with Swedish twins, i think that's marginally better than yours.
jimbob1969 9 months ago
@jimbob1969
That it is. :)
NearAbbeyRoad 9 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Never in the history of capitalism, going back 200 years to mercantile capitalism has there ever been a free market. No such thing ever existed nor does it today. It never "worked".
BOZ11 7 months ago
@BOZ11
The free-market does work. It has never been allowed to work.Get it?
NearAbbeyRoad 7 months ago
@NearAbbeyRoad Tell me what it was that did not "allow" the free market to work during the mercantile capitalist era.
BOZ11 7 months ago
@BOZ11
LAND was rigged as most was in the hands of the few, as is today. Landowners never paid tax on the land - they still do not hence why landowners are the richest in the UK.
TR