God revealed himself in the past(old testament) by, listen carefully, "through,and by the use of his chosen prophets".Now when Jesus the messiah came,those who "choose" to believe and "accept" him as their personal savoir, he(Jesus) reveals himself to them by faith.It's not by physical works anymore(aka:fire falling from the sky or walking on water).I would spend more time learning theology with an open mind then hearing theories from people that don't know what their talking about..
I know your a skeptic or athiest all together,just sit down in a quiet park somewhere on a sat or sun morning,look at the trees,the water,listen to the birds and ask yourself,"is this all by chance?The Bible says,"be transformed by the renewal of your understanding so that you may know the good and perfect will of God".His will,is for all of his creation to serve him.You will not understand it now but when he returns, "he will gather his elect(all that believed)and he will show them everthing!!
one last thing- the concept of god is the concept of truth. and you may throw scientific facts everywhere,and i won't deny them,but the truth i'm talking about is the spiritual truth you derive from those scientific facts.you see vibrations,you see laws of attraction?what does that mean to you?does it imply a truth that binds all life together?maybe some people call that internal understanding of love "God." and why shouldn't they?Noble Truths ought to be appreciated as holy.Existence is holy.
@blessedwildapplegirl Learn to be concise! I don't talk for everybody but I don't believe in spirits or anything to do with spiritualism, so I can't have a spiritual truth ... 2+2=4 isn't spiritual truth, it's just truth.
You seem to be living in a very grey world,. Most people live in a black and white, it's either /or ... you seem to live in grey, sat on the fence a lot.
You say you are Christian but you sound much more like an agnostic theist, there probably is a god but nobody knows
who was it who said "if you love god,burn a church?" ....you can't base your spiritual beliefs on the small-mindedness of others.yes,people are drawn to organized religion for many reasons.but consider that perhaps god disapproves of organized religion.perhaps GOD IS A CONCEPT, and not a bearded man in the clouds.open your mind,squee-gee your third eye,and look God in the face.maybe god is the miracle of this endless sea of energy.maybe the Big Bang is just another phrasing of Creation.
ever consider that the bible,albeit flawed as it was written by man and revised by males over and over again,could have something like poetic merit?do you approach william blake as if he were making scientific claims?"flowers don't talk!" would that seem educated to you?or maybe,just maybe,there is symbolic meaning in the myths,like how cupid and psyche aren't literal beings on mt.olympus,but their story is basically how the heart became connected to the soul,and i believe that story is(1 of 2)
true.not literally like a fundamentalist would assume,but spiritually,the way it was intended to be understood.christ is a symbol for YOU or any human!first i was raised catholic,became an atheist,found buddhism,then finally understood christianity.science continues to prove the existence of god IMO,it's really all perspective.and who says you have to seek god in the bible?try replacing the word god with universe,and just attempt to see it as divine.atomic vibrations are truly holy.(2 of 2)
Atheism is not a philosphy, it is simply the result of critical thinking and the total absence of evidence concerning the existence of god or the spirit.
After Jesus came to earth God stopped talking (and acting i suppose) in open fashion to man.
that is why the experiment is non reproducible
so no you have not found a 'loophole to rule all loopholes' in the bible.
so were back at square one.....again. God cannot be proven, as he cannot be disproved. Faith, either for his existence or non existence, is still required to be blind. so how about we all just let others believe whatever they damn well please?
@dresendezz No, "God cannot be proven as he cannot be disproved." is nonsense. If there is no evidence for God then the default should be that he does not exist. I mean, there is no evidence for Vishnu and so your default would then be that there is no Vishnu (Hindu God). The same applies to your God. Until there is any kind of evidence at all, just the tiniest hint - then this default may be allowed to change. Until it has been disproven.
you immediately assume i believe that "vishnu" is disporven. I do not believe this hindu god to be 'disproven. I simply trust in my faith instead of theirs.
also, you say there is no evidence of God as if this is scientific fact. this is YOUR belief, not mine. I see God's work everyday.
my argument stands. God cannot be disproven or proven, so your FAITH will decide your 'default'
@dresendezz I never said that he was disproven. I said that until any kind of evidence at all is given he has to be assumed to be a false belief. If you have any evidence of God then you are, if not unique, then certainly the exception. The difference between faith and evidence is that evidence can be displayed to anyone who wishes to see it. A lot like what atheism has.
@dresendezz Belief and reality are not the same thing. No matter how many times you say "I believe in faries" reality will remain unaltered. I do not believe, I do not need to believe in it. And unlike theists I can produce solid and proven evidence for my case, irrelevantly of how much anyone believes in them they will remain true and unaltered.
Its people like you that make this world suck. You are just like the assholes who try to shove religion down peoples throats; you take yourself far too seriously and think that your way is the only right way.
You have no 'proof' and no 'evidence' Your only 'proof' that God does not exist is that I cannot prove He does exist to you. If you think that makes you win your point, you are an even bigger fool than i thought.
@dresendezz You cannot prove that my proof is not irrefutable so by your logic my proof holds against your proof. But to be honest I just feel better knowing that I have forced my lack of belief down your throat. Or are you still a theist? =( Let's face it - nothing I say can ever sway you to believe in something different. Which kinda, sorta proves my point. Which is that you are wrong. Which is great. Because I may not be right but at least I have annoyed you. XD
hmmmm.... from detached and disdainful logic to being funny.... yep that means your full of shit, and freaked when i called you on it. And no, You can't change my mind, just as i can't change yours.
I suggest you stop making all atheists seem like ignorant fools and just stop.
You 'un-belive' whatever the hell you want, and ill believe whatever the bloody fuck pleases me.
btw, holy shit, you insulting my entire belief it.. it.. ANNOYED ME!?!? WOW big discovery scientist man.
@dresendezz Hmm. You've got a rubbish sense of comedy. Anyway, when I am the only one that applies logic then clearly I am the winnner. How can anythng constest against "It is because it is."? Of course it's not. Of course it's because of some reason or cause. And of course it's not something supernatural or astral or divine. At least try to think of anything else aside from God that could have made the world. I can think of three things right now. Can you?
give up. seriously. You dont seem to understand that you are exactly what you atheists hate so much about christians. You are full of yourself and think that only you could possibly be right. If you werent as closed minded and stupid as some christian extremists you'd know that science isnt any clearer on a lot of things than religion. The big bang? some dude just pulled that outta his ass. yet here you are saying YOU FUCKING KNOW how everything happened. Go reevaluate your shit bro
@dresendezz It's not so much that I know how it happened, I don't know how universe came about, I never suggested that. I just know how evolution works, which is the minimum requirement if you want to make any kind of logic out of life. I don't believe in the Big Bang, btw. It think that there are way more plausible physical phenomenons than that. But you are equally closeminded, aren't you? You seem pretty certain that you are right about your thing. Also - I do understand that I am duche. ;-)
really? you KNOW how evolution works? scientists arent even really sure how evolution works.
turns a new discovery (upi.com, "discovery could push back age of modern man") could very well make it so the specific evolutionary path once thought modern man followed is disproven.
So maybe you should go enlighten these folks with your perfect understanding of evolution.
and your not just close minded your ignorant. NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT LIFE. NO ONE
@dresendezz Here is where you show that you don't really know what you're talking about. Evolution in the abstract can be observed in bacteria and to a degree in virus, though no one is sure if they are alive. Bacteria evolve all the time. The fact that the evolutionary path is hard to predict I have no doubt of, there have been so many branches and many more are to be discovered. How does that disprove evolution? Anyone who observes the facts knows how life came to be, don't bs me.
It doesnt disprove evolution. I 100% think there is evolution while many christians believe that we were made perfect in form, i believe perfection means the ability to adapt to anything, and therefore evolution to me is what makes us perfect as a whole. What you said is that you without a doubt know how it works. Look at your own post.
My main point still stands. No one knows exactly how life came to be. Your theory is random chance. mine is the hand of god.
@dresendezz I don't believe in random chance. I believe in that physics quite simply did it. Consider the fact that there are nuclear and chemical reactions taking place all the time without anyone interfering. All the time. Given enough energy a hydrogen will not remain hydogen but will fuse and become helium. And given enough energy helium will fuse with hydrogen to make lithium. Anything unstable enough can produce this energy. Where it all came from is paradox whether there is a god or not.
@dresendezz ... ... ... Tricky. But what stops it from being the other way around though? Physics made God? What stops physics from being what we like to call God? It doesn't have to be a cognitive being, does it? It could be an all-powerful and unstoppable force. Such as physics.
@dresendezz Not really. Have you encountered anything that suggests that God may even exists? No. (Bible aside and all that.) Have you encountered anything that suggests that physics has some pretty interesting effects that mankind couldn't even have begun predicting? Yes, read any physics book and you'll find loads of proven facts. All I'm saying is that before you start with the supernatural try looking for a logical explanation and only when you are unable to find one should you belive in God
and here is what you dont seem to understand, seeing physics take its effect does NOT disprove god to me. get it through you head. Everything was created by God, so no damn shit its going to work well.
Your trying to disprove God, but I am not trying to disprove science.
@dresendezz Well, by my own arguments, I don't really have to disprove anything because the default is that there is no God. But even so, say that you see smoke all around you and you can't tell where it's coming from. The first thing through your mind would go to is "There's a fire." or "There's a bbq somewhere." and not "This must be God because I can find no other explanation at this time and I will refuse to look around." It's simply the game theory.
and once again you fuck up. "by my own arguments..."
yeah for yourself. Which i dont give a rats ass about. You can keep the way you think all you want. Your default is there is no God, fine, thats perfectly ok.
My default says there is. Fucking live with it dude. You act as if youve been making any progress at all. Were still exactly where we started. your a atheist and Im a believer. Get over it.
@dresendezz I mean that "by my own arguments" means that whether I like it or not, this is how it is. Your whole argument is "It's that way because I say that it's that way and since you say that it's the other way you must be wrong." Which really isn't an argument. All you've been doing is insulting me in almost every reply you make instead of trying to see whether there really may be logic you missed.
sigh...... Like i said a post before, you come on here and insult my whole faith... what did you expect?
Go back and look at what ive said, I was pretty calm until you started saying my religion was akin to 'believing in fairies.' come on dude, what did you think my reaction was going to be?
And no, ive never said you were 'wrong.' I said I think I'm right. Remember, youre the one trying to convert me, Im trying to convince you to leave every person to their own beliefs.
@dresendezz But if those beliefs are malignant then why should I not try to change them? If I was a nazi you can bet that people would instantly be offended and angry and wouldn't rest until I stopped being a nazi. Religion is sorta like that only worse because you can justify it and feel good about it at the end.
My point is though that instead of offering any kind of evidence to support your belief you are just saying that you want to be left alone with a mythical creatured.
I find this extremely hilarious. You really are delusional. Let me put this simple for you: your views are the malignant ones. because your views are based around oppressing others; same as the nazis bro. I hope you keep talking, because any rational person who thinks your crap through will end up distancing themselves from it, and that WILL make the world a better place.
seriously tho, dont respond, i grow bored with reading your circular and hate filled rhetoric, so i simply wont.
@dresendezz Atheism cannot be malignant simply because it implies NOT doing something rather than doing it. It doesn't mean that you do something else. Sure, etheists can be homocidal maniacs but that is the individual and not the collective. Anyway, there is no collective. It's people who distance themselves from the collective. I distance myself from your religious drivel. You refused to listen to my logical drivel. Can you spot the minute difference there?
The deleted scene from that story is when Baal sits in his throne and it is revealed to the reader that he ignited Elijah's bowl just to fuck with the israelites.
"and the people are like, Jesus Christ". Baal-worshippers were known for their anachronistic expressions. It's one of the things Yahweh hated about them.
The reality anyways is that we don't have that kind of "empirical" evidence.
When it comes down to life and death decisions, we know that important decisions cannot be made by empirical evidence alone-simply because that's not the basis for belief.
If you believe what the weather is like, a forecast, someone's admittance of love for you, or anything wrote in a history book, you're not using empirical evidence as your reason to.
One piece of evidence alone may not seem extremely powerful, but when stacked together, it increases the likelihood of him having committed the crime. It would be a shame if courts today just looked at that and said, "that's not proof. I need real proof" and then dismissed it.
However, since God has already revealed His will to us through the Scriptures, there is no more revelation. God doesn't have to continue "proving" Himself over all the ages.
Also, if you can't believe an event happened because you can't recreate it, I hope you don't believe in life coming from non-life, the Big-bang theory, or the evolution of intelligence.
@ZJemptv What about a historical account? Does that count as anything anymore? Sure, though careful preservation of history, songs, and revelation has been kept by people who were skeptical, perhaps more than we.
What you are doing is no different today, the scriptures even show man doing their best to try to squelch God's word, "explain way" or even lie to say reasons why anything divine was just instead some fanatic's idea/workings, because otherwise it would demand total subjection of self.
@ZJemptv Q. 1. A; No. The thing that distinguishes Christianity from all other religions is that it is based on a single historical event, the resurrection of Jesus. That is the whole CLAIM of Christianity. Without it, nothing else matters. After His body was missing from the tomb, several people, even hundreds, began claiming to be eye witnesses to seeing Him again.
@ndbass09 Lots of people have claimed to see things, especially when it was faddish to do so. It doesn't mean they actually did.
Many people who were previously Christian have become atheists. Many people who were atheists have joined non-Christian religions. Many former Christians have joined non-Christian religious. Religious conversion or the ability of some people to be persuaded is not evidence.
You're right, prevalence of a religion is not what should be our reasoning for determining how truthful it is. But the claim for it's truth is what matters. Many people who were skeptical of the claim, were the very ones who became the Apostles to spread the word. "Doubting Thomas", for example, said "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” Because he saw the reality of Jesus' death.
What would make anyone believe in the Resurrection of someone? Of course we don't just half-hazardously believe anyone saying that today, but the reality is that people didn't just foolishly accept statements like that either, unless there was some evidence to back up the claim. It's arrogant to assume they did.
Miracles were given to the Apostles, and certain others, to confirm that they were messengers of God.
@ndbass09 People believe all manner of absurd things, both religious and non-religious. Lots of people foolishly accept many statements that are ridiculous on their face. It is not arrogant to point this out, it's reality that this is a common feature of human behavior.
People being liars (though they may have simply been mistaken) is a much more reasonable explanation than unproven supernatural violations of the laws of nature. People lie a lot. Dead people do not return to life days later.
@ZJemptv They may accept things foolishly, but if they honestly question something that was just a tradition handed down, they will either seek the evidence or move on from it. The conversions of the people I mentioned are important, not just because it was something they felt in their heart, but it was only after significant evidence was presented to them that they were converted. The apostles didn't believe Jesus resurrected until they saw Him, very similar to what you said about life/death.
And you're right, dead people don't just "return to life" days later. It's completely unheard of. That's why people were converted upon seeing someone who was surely dead, raised from the dead. It's not possible in nature, but by a supernatural force working in His creation.
Let me ask you, what motives might the Apostles/others have had to claim they were eyewitnesses of a resurrected Jesus, when it meant they would be killed for their lie?
@ndbass09 Any motives that any members of any other religion would have to die in the name of religions which you and I both agree to be false. Given that people will do this for untrue religions, the fact that people would do this cannot serve as evidence that any religion is true.
@ZJemptv If we're talking about just what moral system is better, sure, but I'm talking about circumstantial evidence. I noticed you bring up empirical evidence a lot, but in reality that's not the single way many important things (court cases, for example) are decided. If I looked at circumstantial evidence for the Islam religion, for example, Muhammad really started off by making a religion, gathering followers, than going to war with other neighboring tribes.
@ndbass09 "I noticed you bring up empirical evidence a lot, but in reality that's not the single way many important things (court cases, for example) are decided."
I don't believe you.
"and again, what evidence is there that these people were just crazy fanatics who weren't sure of what they had seen?"
Because the vast majority of the time, as seen in every religion you do not believe in, this is the product of erroneous perception (or "crazy fanatics"). Why not here as well?
@ZJemptv Well..what about Scopes Monkey Trial? Obviously with matters of what should and should be allowed, you don't bring in empirical evidence to decide.
But then there's OJ Simpson's case, where you guessed it, circumstantial evidence is brought in to show he was a criminal. It's the basis on which anyone is judged to be guilty of a crime. For him: blood stains, DNA reports, bloody gloves, a knife, shoes, video tape, and other various items were used as evidence.
@ndbass09 Saying that evidence is not the sole relevant factor here, when evidence alone could indeed constitute sufficient proof of these Jesus-related claims if such evidence existed, seems like a distraction from the clear inadequacy of the evidence for these claims.
Imperfections in a certain system of justice and the outcomes it renders does nothing to undermine the continued importance of evidence itself and the need to acknowledge its central role in determining truth.
@ZJemptv The kind of evidence you're suggesting "could" indeed be ideal, at least in our opinions.
What if God decided to do this event all over again, just so you could have a chance to "test" it?
Honestly though, I think even if we had a sound recording, it'd be called vague and acted, and if we had a video recording it would be fake and edited.
He has a motive for wanting to gather followers, destroy enemies, and he used God as a way to gain that.
Yet Christianity doesn't call people to kill enemies who refuse God, but love them and appeal for them to serve God. It's a call to sacrifice everything and serve Him, and again, what evidence is there that these people were just crazy fanatics who weren't sure of what they had seen? I can give you good reasons to consider the sanity of them if you like.
Miracles weren't given to impress people, entertain them, or heal them, but they were given to show that these eyewitnesses of God were given His stamp of approval, so that no one could deny them. And in fact, you can't just say that the events were made up. You have to come to the conclusion that these people were either telling the truth, or the worst, most outrageous liars to have ever lived- simply because of the certainty of their claim & the measures they used to show their trustworthiness
@ndbass09 If people can be just as convinced by the alleged evidence in favor of their other religions, and yet you can discount their certainty and their evidence nonetheless, why is your chosen religion not equally in doubt for the same reasons? You could just be falsely persuaded by insufficient, absurd, and fraudulent claims, much like the followers of every other religion.
What is the claim of Islam? For proof of its authenticity, it claims that is has the most poetic, beautiful, scriptures of all.. Check suras 10:37-38, or 2:23, or 17:88 or a statement in the Hadith, "The Qur'an is the greatest wonder among the wonders of the world. This book is second to none in the world according to the unanimous decision of the learned men in points of diction, style, rhetoric, thoughts and soundness of laws and regulations to shape the destinies of mankind." Subjective.
Check out Matthew 28...after Jesus' resurrection, the religious elite, those who were supposed to know all about the Scriptures and the prophecies concerning Jesus(Chief Priests/Elders), tried to cover it up by saying the disciples stole it. They were powerful men, they had plenty of money to help accomplish their goals. But they couldn't stop it. Even though powerful men wanted to stop people believing in Jesus, it somehow spread to those who decided to defend it to the point of martyrdom.
@ndbass09 The success and prevalence of a belief is not indicative of its truth. Obviously no one has been able to eradicate Islam or atheism, either. Are they just as true? By the way, someone deciding to die for the sake of a certain belief says nothing about its veracity. People do that a lot, for a variety of different beliefs. They might just be wrong, you know.
You equated the scene Mt. Carmel to a science experience. Science is something we test with the tools and technology of our time to find out about why something works they way it does. The key to that is, WE test it. The point of that scene in the Bible is to show God's power over false man-made idols...and Elijah spoke as a prophet of God, a tool even. The better thing you should ask would be to have a prophet of God meet with false prophets.
oo for the atheist sacrafice can we put our joint of meet under a large metal pole and wait for a thunderstorm. can we can we. please say we can do this.
You know, I try to read the comments from the christians, but they are so hateful they are unreadable. What's with all this ridiculing another human, christians? Where do you get of judging anyone... isn't that expressly forbidden in your religion? Why do you take so much joy at the thought of a fellow human spending eternity in hell? I'd say the worst advertisement for christianity would be the christians.
While absence of evidence is technically not evidence of absence, to believe something in the absence of evidence is absurd. So, you can't prove God doesn't exist. So what? Doesn't mean he does exist either. All it means is you can't be 100% certain when you make your claims. It doesn't mean you should believe in him. After all, you can't prove Ra doesn't exist either & I've seen his chariot running across the sky. By the way, his chariot is running an hour slow this time of year. WTF is that?
@TheCeejReturns We cant prove a negative, its impossible. But we can look around at all the evil, injustice, intolerance and such in the world and see either A) god doesn't exist, as a benevolent loving god would not allow such things to continue. Orrrrr B) Some form of god exist, but he's a callous dick who doesn't deserve for us to believe in him, much less praise him. Atheist and christians are a lot alike. Only difference is, we take our disbelief one step further. Ya digg ;D
The problem is, What happened was not someone's science experiment, and has nothing to do with this "ladys" puny demands. God is not some plaything Who hops at the beck and call of a hate filled freak who doesn't know if "it's" a a man or a woman. He answers to no one, and neither He nor those who belong to Him have anything to prove one way the other. We answer to Him not the other way around. Get smart with Him and He's not going to even answer you. The baal worshipers found that out fast.
God was not in skin as any other gods and goddesses from the mythology of pagans. But in the light of heaven! So God is a true god. And Baal is a oral fiction god. So we are not the worshipper of the mythology gods and goddesses. But God's wonders people of happiness!
I definitely think this should be done. And while all the religions are trying to get their gods to se things on fire, atheists could gather around their altar and celebrate things like music, dance, art, poetry and science - things that we as people have created to make us happy and fulfilled without any god. We have accomplished so much that we should be proud of, but totalitarian obedience isn't one of those things. Our potential as a species is enormous. Let's move forward.
From the scripture, "do not test your God." That was a one time deal. For you to ask this is to go against the word, but you don't believe so why even bring it up?
Incorrect of course, said expiriment involves a god and is thus sociological.
Of course its still rubbish, even if there is a god he may have better things to do then barbeque your things. Or maybe god just doesnt like to exert himself without the prospect of slaughtering heretics.
There could be any number of logical explanations for that story assuming it is true. A collaborator could have thrown some inflamed wood or fired a fire aroown from a distance, or Elijah could have just waited till everyone was tired and barely concious after the long hours of waiting and beating eachother and just taken a match(or sumtin like that) and set fire to it himself. If this isnt sarcastic then no-one kill a bull, just use one thats already dead :0 and use proper controls
@ZJemptv This challenge is nonsense. Similar challenge: I demand that you recreate the exact scenario of the origins of the universe ... if you can't, I'll conclude that God must have created the universe. Your logic is severely flawed.
@gguilford72 We can, silly. Someone, I'm not saying who, needs to brush up on his/her modern scientific research before posting his/her false premise and looking foolishly desperate.
@amonkeyinmypocket We can, silly. Someone-I'm not saying who-needs to brush up on his/her modern scientific research before posting his/her false premise and looking foolish and desperate.
@bbmkanata Go right ahead then. Your claim is empty without support.
I love how you people try to sound informed without actually saying anything of value. "Modern science blah blah research, blah blah, scientific science! Did you hear? I said SCIENCE and am therefore automatically right!"
@bbmkanata The LHC? Are you daft? I highly doubt the LHC existed at the origins of the universe.
Please though, just for kicks, explain how the LHC proves how the universe was created. You must be privy to knowledge even the scientists working with it are unaware of, so I would absolutely love to hear your answer. Wikipedia has a decent amount of information on the LHC if you'd like to copy and paste a bunch of it...
@amonkeyinmypocket Even if no one can replicate similar (or the exact) conditions of Big Bang, it only states that Big Bang hasn't been tested and, at most, that there is no current explanation for the starting of this universe.
But your analogy isn't fair: you're not proposing any experiment to demonstrate/disprove that the Big Bang existed or an alternative experiment to prove/disprove that God created this universe. Propose an experiment and your Challenge will be similar to this one.
Experiment: Team Atheist will take a piece of meat (sirloin will do), season it, and sear it in a buttered pan. Before the meat is done, add some shallots until tender and slightly golden, add a squirt of brandy, about half a cup of heavy cream, salt and pepper. Serve with a side of homemade fries and sautéed veggies.
Hypothesis: Would Team God heads collectively explode if they se atheists having fun and having a nice meal? (note to vegans: replace beef and daily with veggies and olive oil)
@onulrad It's 1 Kings 18:16-40. Google that to read it on free bible sites.
This was the story that put me on the path to atheism. I knew something was up when my second grade bible study teacher didn't want to go replicate the experiment in the parking lot. If it's true, then why not show us? We'd believe for life!!
It's also a great refutation of the idea that God doesn't like to be tested, or that he has a principled reason for not proving his existence, since he does both in this story.
Proof for El? Did Egyptian slaves(Israel) just quit & walk away w/ impunity? The proof of the story was removed from the great pyramid Giza by the French in the early 1900's. (defacing the greatest relic of mankind.) The history of what El did was engraved in that marble.
I love this vid. So true, so powerful, so to the point:
"Howabout we do just like the Bible, and have a little scientific experiment"
Good, except one problem: No christian in his right mind would accept that challenge. All christians know that god is not empirically demonstrable, and not provable by science. They of course have all these cute little rationalizations for this fact, which usually boil down to: "he wants us to believe on faith" AKA "the argument from gullibility". lol
@seanthedonconsidine No Christian would accept that challenge simply because that is something from the Old Testiment. That kind of action, taken by God, stopped at the cross on which Jesus died, thus fulfilling the law. So, you are correct! No Christian, in his/her right mind would accept that challenge.
@kyokogodai That's a rationalization. "Jesus fulfilled the law, thus god doesn't interact in the world any more". This is a fraudulent statement. There are numerous accounts in the bible of god working miracles in the world AFTER jesus died. A scientific test for god's existence would still be required also, as the claim "god exists and affects the world" is a scientific claim that reality is affected, thus you should be able to observe god's affect on reality, right? Then why can't we?
So you are playing a Mount Carmel experiment but the results will be the same as they were the first time. I can tell you that in Christ there is redemption and salvation from the wrath of God. Outside of Christ there is nothing but wrath and condemnation. But you probably have heard all this stuff before so I wont annoy you any further. After all you have heard all this before and you do not have any sleepless nights due to this. The silence can be deafening can it not?# of angels is wrong
Something to look forward to I presume. We are in a sort of Mount Carmel situation right now. The last act will be when Christ returns with ten thousand of his angels for the day of reckoning, I know, I know, you wanted to avoid the slaughter but unfortunately for unbelievers God is a Holy and Just God and those that refused to acknowledge their creator and address their wicked ways must pay and since you have nothing to offer God you must pay with an eternity in hell.
Noble task you are on, to disprove something does not exist that does not exist to people who dont care for what you have to say. Irony is it not! If the Bible is true God will not even blink at your blasphemous request. God accomplishes what he wants how he wants and when he wants. If the Bible is true and you have been able to disturb a Christians faith the bible says it would have been better for you to hang a large millstone around your neck and be drowned in the deepest sea!
This must really begin to make you wonder whos gone mad. Them for believing in something that you cannot hold or quantify or make demands from or yourself for spending all your time trying to proof to believers something does not exist that does not exist. Actually from your point of view it would have to be like spending your entire life disproving that Santa Claus exists. Then you can say philosophical things like, this belief is holding back mankind from evolving.
what a great sense of humor you have,,, just because anyone makes a choice doese'nt make that choice a reality and that the beauty of the bible I believe in, the God I believe in,,,you get to make the choice for yourself,,, I act and believe that your choice, whatever it is,,,is given to you by the God of my understanding. I think christians that have this wierd need to be right are just as nuts as the athiests who dare someone to prove the very thing they can only find themselves.
I use to think about this story of prophet Elijah and the baal worshippers as well. If this 'experiment or show' can be demonstrated in this modern world then, automatically many should believe in God. But it seems to me that in Xtianity there is much words than action and MUCH THEORIES THAN PRACTICAL..Thanks ZJemptv for uploading this videos. I'm gonna subscribe...
If God truly existed, then it goes without saying that God is the author of nature, knowledge, and the distribution of it. Then why has God never bestowed a single mathematical proof on His followers - and scientists and mathematicians (who do not believe in gods) are the ones who discover these things?
Assuming you're a woman, you can soon expect some idiot claiming that he, himself, can get you off much faster, to post a comment. Believe me, many men are all too predictable. And before I'm accused of it, I am not gay.
@DanceInYourRoom "It takes men 2 minutes to orgasm, and women 20 minutes to orgasm. What other proof do you need that there is no god?" That is relative. )
As a non believer in any omni* deity, I'm going to have to chime in with "that's a lousy argument".
You, a single (I presume) Goyim (you're not Jewish are you?) person are asking everyone (not prophets) to prove to you that God exists via A N other slab of meet.
1 Kings was about the entire Jewish people worshipping a false God and the prophet Elijah laying down some righteous smiting.
Unless you are the entirety of the Jewish people and unless you can find someone the Jewish people call a Prophet, I'm afraid your argument doesn't really stand.
Leaving aside the false analogy, your argument hinges on the presumption that "If God exists, He/She/It must answer any challenge to prove His/Her/Its existance".
Throughout the bible god was more than willing to prove himseff yet in modern times we never see it. hmmm Could it have been stories (outright lies) told to the masses to get them to keep paying their tithes?
I am not going to say that a god is either possible or impossible to exist but I am going to say that the wonderful works of Magicians such as David Copporfield and Uri Geller do give me a reason to doubt that what they do can be explained with optical illusion theories. However, I'm quite sure many of their tricks have been exposed by people who can try to prove magic or trickery. How genuine is the result of the attempt, I wonder.
It's just a little humorous and ironic that this unknown tranny just disproved the entire faith structure of a few hundred million people in a little over 3 minutes.
Wow, I guess that's about all there is to see in this life. The truth is pretty boring, but at least you found the truth. That's always good~
We walk by faith not by sight my friend. The manifestation of God has been made know to all, so men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-24 Your wisdom is foolishness to God.
He is all around you my friend. When you are ready and seek Him he will answer you. I am not being condescending, what greater love is there then to save my brother or sister from death. You will at some point in your life come to the realization that you need God and then your eyes and ears will be open to what others see and hear and you currently believe is foolishness. I know, as I was where you are now for most of my life. No debate is sought, I have said my peace.
You assume i need saving. Yes, you are very presumptuous. You have no idea of my circumstances yet you claim to know what has and will happen. Im sorry, my friend, what you believe is foolishness.
@Formertelecomguy To me, your motivation to be saved does not sound like a realization that one needs God but rather a realization that one fears death. Gaining the reward of eternal life and escaping death and/or punishment is not based on free will or morality. It is coercion which appeals to self-serving prudence. I have yet to hear any good reason to believe in the Bible God which does not involve threat or bribe.
Lets pretend there is an almighty God creator of the universe. Would this almighty being be much of a God if any of us could control God's actions by demanding proof through some experiment? You could probably pay Ziegfried and Roy to do this trick if you paid them a substantial amount of money. Bet they'd even through in a jumping Tiger for the right amount.
you are definitely "a taker"
daniellos333 1 week ago
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God revealed himself in the past(old testament) by, listen carefully, "through,and by the use of his chosen prophets".Now when Jesus the messiah came,those who "choose" to believe and "accept" him as their personal savoir, he(Jesus) reveals himself to them by faith.It's not by physical works anymore(aka:fire falling from the sky or walking on water).I would spend more time learning theology with an open mind then hearing theories from people that don't know what their talking about..
jackmarsilva 2 weeks ago
I know your a skeptic or athiest all together,just sit down in a quiet park somewhere on a sat or sun morning,look at the trees,the water,listen to the birds and ask yourself,"is this all by chance?The Bible says,"be transformed by the renewal of your understanding so that you may know the good and perfect will of God".His will,is for all of his creation to serve him.You will not understand it now but when he returns, "he will gather his elect(all that believed)and he will show them everthing!!
jackmarsilva 2 weeks ago
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jackmarsilva 2 weeks ago
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jackmarsilva 2 weeks ago
one last thing- the concept of god is the concept of truth. and you may throw scientific facts everywhere,and i won't deny them,but the truth i'm talking about is the spiritual truth you derive from those scientific facts.you see vibrations,you see laws of attraction?what does that mean to you?does it imply a truth that binds all life together?maybe some people call that internal understanding of love "God." and why shouldn't they?Noble Truths ought to be appreciated as holy.Existence is holy.
blessedwildapplegirl 1 month ago
@blessedwildapplegirl Learn to be concise! I don't talk for everybody but I don't believe in spirits or anything to do with spiritualism, so I can't have a spiritual truth ... 2+2=4 isn't spiritual truth, it's just truth.
You seem to be living in a very grey world,. Most people live in a black and white, it's either /or ... you seem to live in grey, sat on the fence a lot.
You say you are Christian but you sound much more like an agnostic theist, there probably is a god but nobody knows
theomega616 1 month ago
who was it who said "if you love god,burn a church?" ....you can't base your spiritual beliefs on the small-mindedness of others.yes,people are drawn to organized religion for many reasons.but consider that perhaps god disapproves of organized religion.perhaps GOD IS A CONCEPT, and not a bearded man in the clouds.open your mind,squee-gee your third eye,and look God in the face.maybe god is the miracle of this endless sea of energy.maybe the Big Bang is just another phrasing of Creation.
blessedwildapplegirl 1 month ago
@blessedwildapplegirl
maybe youre fucking stupid?
daniellos333 1 week ago
ever consider that the bible,albeit flawed as it was written by man and revised by males over and over again,could have something like poetic merit?do you approach william blake as if he were making scientific claims?"flowers don't talk!" would that seem educated to you?or maybe,just maybe,there is symbolic meaning in the myths,like how cupid and psyche aren't literal beings on mt.olympus,but their story is basically how the heart became connected to the soul,and i believe that story is(1 of 2)
blessedwildapplegirl 1 month ago
true.not literally like a fundamentalist would assume,but spiritually,the way it was intended to be understood.christ is a symbol for YOU or any human!first i was raised catholic,became an atheist,found buddhism,then finally understood christianity.science continues to prove the existence of god IMO,it's really all perspective.and who says you have to seek god in the bible?try replacing the word god with universe,and just attempt to see it as divine.atomic vibrations are truly holy.(2 of 2)
blessedwildapplegirl 1 month ago
I love the way you retold the story.
star3catcherSEQUEL 2 months ago
Atheism is not a philosphy, it is simply the result of critical thinking and the total absence of evidence concerning the existence of god or the spirit.
LegionarioCruel 3 months ago
Stfu!!!
DJMatMJD 3 months ago
do you have bush? you look like yo do
jesusthehorse 3 months ago
Where exactly is this in the bible? This sounds like something that could be really useful in future arguments. =D
pkemrin 3 months ago
Poorly worded, sorry. I mean that "only when there is evidence may the default change" not "until".
Vortex289 3 months ago
After Jesus came to earth God stopped talking (and acting i suppose) in open fashion to man.
that is why the experiment is non reproducible
so no you have not found a 'loophole to rule all loopholes' in the bible.
so were back at square one.....again. God cannot be proven, as he cannot be disproved. Faith, either for his existence or non existence, is still required to be blind. so how about we all just let others believe whatever they damn well please?
dresendezz 4 months ago
@dresendezz No, "God cannot be proven as he cannot be disproved." is nonsense. If there is no evidence for God then the default should be that he does not exist. I mean, there is no evidence for Vishnu and so your default would then be that there is no Vishnu (Hindu God). The same applies to your God. Until there is any kind of evidence at all, just the tiniest hint - then this default may be allowed to change. Until it has been disproven.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
you immediately assume i believe that "vishnu" is disporven. I do not believe this hindu god to be 'disproven. I simply trust in my faith instead of theirs.
also, you say there is no evidence of God as if this is scientific fact. this is YOUR belief, not mine. I see God's work everyday.
my argument stands. God cannot be disproven or proven, so your FAITH will decide your 'default'
Mine leads me to God,
yours leads you to atheism.
Its all faith my friend.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz I never said that he was disproven. I said that until any kind of evidence at all is given he has to be assumed to be a false belief. If you have any evidence of God then you are, if not unique, then certainly the exception. The difference between faith and evidence is that evidence can be displayed to anyone who wishes to see it. A lot like what atheism has.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
once again, you make the same mistake. "I said that until any kind of evidence at all is given HE HAS TO BE ASSUMED to be a false belief"
that YOUR belief.
My belief in Him, and the wonders, miracles and tests he works everyday, makes it so that I have absolutely no doubt that He exists.
I have no problem with you not believing, why is it you have such a problem with my faith?
who is being the zealot, a derogatory term thrown at the faithful by atheists, now?
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Belief and reality are not the same thing. No matter how many times you say "I believe in faries" reality will remain unaltered. I do not believe, I do not need to believe in it. And unlike theists I can produce solid and proven evidence for my case, irrelevantly of how much anyone believes in them they will remain true and unaltered.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
you are a fool.
Its people like you that make this world suck. You are just like the assholes who try to shove religion down peoples throats; you take yourself far too seriously and think that your way is the only right way.
You have no 'proof' and no 'evidence' Your only 'proof' that God does not exist is that I cannot prove He does exist to you. If you think that makes you win your point, you are an even bigger fool than i thought.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz You cannot prove that my proof is not irrefutable so by your logic my proof holds against your proof. But to be honest I just feel better knowing that I have forced my lack of belief down your throat. Or are you still a theist? =( Let's face it - nothing I say can ever sway you to believe in something different. Which kinda, sorta proves my point. Which is that you are wrong. Which is great. Because I may not be right but at least I have annoyed you. XD
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
hmmmm.... from detached and disdainful logic to being funny.... yep that means your full of shit, and freaked when i called you on it. And no, You can't change my mind, just as i can't change yours.
I suggest you stop making all atheists seem like ignorant fools and just stop.
You 'un-belive' whatever the hell you want, and ill believe whatever the bloody fuck pleases me.
btw, holy shit, you insulting my entire belief it.. it.. ANNOYED ME!?!? WOW big discovery scientist man.
fool.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Hmm. You've got a rubbish sense of comedy. Anyway, when I am the only one that applies logic then clearly I am the winnner. How can anythng constest against "It is because it is."? Of course it's not. Of course it's because of some reason or cause. And of course it's not something supernatural or astral or divine. At least try to think of anything else aside from God that could have made the world. I can think of three things right now. Can you?
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
give up. seriously. You dont seem to understand that you are exactly what you atheists hate so much about christians. You are full of yourself and think that only you could possibly be right. If you werent as closed minded and stupid as some christian extremists you'd know that science isnt any clearer on a lot of things than religion. The big bang? some dude just pulled that outta his ass. yet here you are saying YOU FUCKING KNOW how everything happened. Go reevaluate your shit bro
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz It's not so much that I know how it happened, I don't know how universe came about, I never suggested that. I just know how evolution works, which is the minimum requirement if you want to make any kind of logic out of life. I don't believe in the Big Bang, btw. It think that there are way more plausible physical phenomenons than that. But you are equally closeminded, aren't you? You seem pretty certain that you are right about your thing. Also - I do understand that I am duche. ;-)
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
really? you KNOW how evolution works? scientists arent even really sure how evolution works.
turns a new discovery (upi.com, "discovery could push back age of modern man") could very well make it so the specific evolutionary path once thought modern man followed is disproven.
So maybe you should go enlighten these folks with your perfect understanding of evolution.
and your not just close minded your ignorant. NO ONE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT LIFE. NO ONE
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Here is where you show that you don't really know what you're talking about. Evolution in the abstract can be observed in bacteria and to a degree in virus, though no one is sure if they are alive. Bacteria evolve all the time. The fact that the evolutionary path is hard to predict I have no doubt of, there have been so many branches and many more are to be discovered. How does that disprove evolution? Anyone who observes the facts knows how life came to be, don't bs me.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
It doesnt disprove evolution. I 100% think there is evolution while many christians believe that we were made perfect in form, i believe perfection means the ability to adapt to anything, and therefore evolution to me is what makes us perfect as a whole. What you said is that you without a doubt know how it works. Look at your own post.
My main point still stands. No one knows exactly how life came to be. Your theory is random chance. mine is the hand of god.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz I don't believe in random chance. I believe in that physics quite simply did it. Consider the fact that there are nuclear and chemical reactions taking place all the time without anyone interfering. All the time. Given enough energy a hydrogen will not remain hydogen but will fuse and become helium. And given enough energy helium will fuse with hydrogen to make lithium. Anything unstable enough can produce this energy. Where it all came from is paradox whether there is a god or not.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
once again we arrive at an impasse see, you say 'physics did it'
I say, physics followed the rules set by God on how physics should act and did it.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz ... ... ... Tricky. But what stops it from being the other way around though? Physics made God? What stops physics from being what we like to call God? It doesn't have to be a cognitive being, does it? It could be an all-powerful and unstoppable force. Such as physics.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
*sigh*
and what stops it from being that God created physics?
you see my point?
its all on faith.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Not really. Have you encountered anything that suggests that God may even exists? No. (Bible aside and all that.) Have you encountered anything that suggests that physics has some pretty interesting effects that mankind couldn't even have begun predicting? Yes, read any physics book and you'll find loads of proven facts. All I'm saying is that before you start with the supernatural try looking for a logical explanation and only when you are unable to find one should you belive in God
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
and here is what you dont seem to understand, seeing physics take its effect does NOT disprove god to me. get it through you head. Everything was created by God, so no damn shit its going to work well.
Your trying to disprove God, but I am not trying to disprove science.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Well, by my own arguments, I don't really have to disprove anything because the default is that there is no God. But even so, say that you see smoke all around you and you can't tell where it's coming from. The first thing through your mind would go to is "There's a fire." or "There's a bbq somewhere." and not "This must be God because I can find no other explanation at this time and I will refuse to look around." It's simply the game theory.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
and once again you fuck up. "by my own arguments..."
yeah for yourself. Which i dont give a rats ass about. You can keep the way you think all you want. Your default is there is no God, fine, thats perfectly ok.
My default says there is. Fucking live with it dude. You act as if youve been making any progress at all. Were still exactly where we started. your a atheist and Im a believer. Get over it.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz I mean that "by my own arguments" means that whether I like it or not, this is how it is. Your whole argument is "It's that way because I say that it's that way and since you say that it's the other way you must be wrong." Which really isn't an argument. All you've been doing is insulting me in almost every reply you make instead of trying to see whether there really may be logic you missed.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
sigh...... Like i said a post before, you come on here and insult my whole faith... what did you expect?
Go back and look at what ive said, I was pretty calm until you started saying my religion was akin to 'believing in fairies.' come on dude, what did you think my reaction was going to be?
And no, ive never said you were 'wrong.' I said I think I'm right. Remember, youre the one trying to convert me, Im trying to convince you to leave every person to their own beliefs.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz But if those beliefs are malignant then why should I not try to change them? If I was a nazi you can bet that people would instantly be offended and angry and wouldn't rest until I stopped being a nazi. Religion is sorta like that only worse because you can justify it and feel good about it at the end.
My point is though that instead of offering any kind of evidence to support your belief you are just saying that you want to be left alone with a mythical creatured.
Vortex289 3 months ago
@Vortex289
I find this extremely hilarious. You really are delusional. Let me put this simple for you: your views are the malignant ones. because your views are based around oppressing others; same as the nazis bro. I hope you keep talking, because any rational person who thinks your crap through will end up distancing themselves from it, and that WILL make the world a better place.
seriously tho, dont respond, i grow bored with reading your circular and hate filled rhetoric, so i simply wont.
dresendezz 3 months ago
@dresendezz Atheism cannot be malignant simply because it implies NOT doing something rather than doing it. It doesn't mean that you do something else. Sure, etheists can be homocidal maniacs but that is the individual and not the collective. Anyway, there is no collective. It's people who distance themselves from the collective. I distance myself from your religious drivel. You refused to listen to my logical drivel. Can you spot the minute difference there?
Vortex289 3 months ago
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is actually but it is not conclusive.
Absence of evidence is not evidence for presence.
torrid426 4 months ago
The deleted scene from that story is when Baal sits in his throne and it is revealed to the reader that he ignited Elijah's bowl just to fuck with the israelites.
eddiminus 4 months ago
"and the people are like, Jesus Christ". Baal-worshippers were known for their anachronistic expressions. It's one of the things Yahweh hated about them.
newperve 4 months ago
The reality anyways is that we don't have that kind of "empirical" evidence.
When it comes down to life and death decisions, we know that important decisions cannot be made by empirical evidence alone-simply because that's not the basis for belief.
If you believe what the weather is like, a forecast, someone's admittance of love for you, or anything wrote in a history book, you're not using empirical evidence as your reason to.
Anyways...What would it take to make you believe?
ndbass09 4 months ago
One piece of evidence alone may not seem extremely powerful, but when stacked together, it increases the likelihood of him having committed the crime. It would be a shame if courts today just looked at that and said, "that's not proof. I need real proof" and then dismissed it.
Also, sorry for flooding your video comments.
ndbass09 4 months ago
However, since God has already revealed His will to us through the Scriptures, there is no more revelation. God doesn't have to continue "proving" Himself over all the ages.
Also, if you can't believe an event happened because you can't recreate it, I hope you don't believe in life coming from non-life, the Big-bang theory, or the evolution of intelligence.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 If you're unable to offer proof that something happened, you have no grounds to expect anyone to believe it.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv What about a historical account? Does that count as anything anymore? Sure, though careful preservation of history, songs, and revelation has been kept by people who were skeptical, perhaps more than we.
What you are doing is no different today, the scriptures even show man doing their best to try to squelch God's word, "explain way" or even lie to say reasons why anything divine was just instead some fanatic's idea/workings, because otherwise it would demand total subjection of self.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 "What about a historical account? Does that count as anything anymore?"
Do you accept non-Biblical, non-Judeo-Christian historical accounts of miracles and acts of gods/goddesses from other religions?
"because otherwise it would demand total subjection of self."
Has it occurred to you that people may have reasons to oppose the spread of certain belief systems other than the fear that they may be true?
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv Q. 1. A; No. The thing that distinguishes Christianity from all other religions is that it is based on a single historical event, the resurrection of Jesus. That is the whole CLAIM of Christianity. Without it, nothing else matters. After His body was missing from the tomb, several people, even hundreds, began claiming to be eye witnesses to seeing Him again.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 Lots of people have claimed to see things, especially when it was faddish to do so. It doesn't mean they actually did.
Many people who were previously Christian have become atheists. Many people who were atheists have joined non-Christian religions. Many former Christians have joined non-Christian religious. Religious conversion or the ability of some people to be persuaded is not evidence.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
You're right, prevalence of a religion is not what should be our reasoning for determining how truthful it is. But the claim for it's truth is what matters. Many people who were skeptical of the claim, were the very ones who became the Apostles to spread the word. "Doubting Thomas", for example, said "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” Because he saw the reality of Jesus' death.
ndbass09 4 months ago
What would make anyone believe in the Resurrection of someone? Of course we don't just half-hazardously believe anyone saying that today, but the reality is that people didn't just foolishly accept statements like that either, unless there was some evidence to back up the claim. It's arrogant to assume they did.
Miracles were given to the Apostles, and certain others, to confirm that they were messengers of God.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 People believe all manner of absurd things, both religious and non-religious. Lots of people foolishly accept many statements that are ridiculous on their face. It is not arrogant to point this out, it's reality that this is a common feature of human behavior.
People being liars (though they may have simply been mistaken) is a much more reasonable explanation than unproven supernatural violations of the laws of nature. People lie a lot. Dead people do not return to life days later.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv They may accept things foolishly, but if they honestly question something that was just a tradition handed down, they will either seek the evidence or move on from it. The conversions of the people I mentioned are important, not just because it was something they felt in their heart, but it was only after significant evidence was presented to them that they were converted. The apostles didn't believe Jesus resurrected until they saw Him, very similar to what you said about life/death.
ndbass09 4 months ago
And you're right, dead people don't just "return to life" days later. It's completely unheard of. That's why people were converted upon seeing someone who was surely dead, raised from the dead. It's not possible in nature, but by a supernatural force working in His creation.
Let me ask you, what motives might the Apostles/others have had to claim they were eyewitnesses of a resurrected Jesus, when it meant they would be killed for their lie?
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 Any motives that any members of any other religion would have to die in the name of religions which you and I both agree to be false. Given that people will do this for untrue religions, the fact that people would do this cannot serve as evidence that any religion is true.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv If we're talking about just what moral system is better, sure, but I'm talking about circumstantial evidence. I noticed you bring up empirical evidence a lot, but in reality that's not the single way many important things (court cases, for example) are decided. If I looked at circumstantial evidence for the Islam religion, for example, Muhammad really started off by making a religion, gathering followers, than going to war with other neighboring tribes.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 "I noticed you bring up empirical evidence a lot, but in reality that's not the single way many important things (court cases, for example) are decided."
I don't believe you.
"and again, what evidence is there that these people were just crazy fanatics who weren't sure of what they had seen?"
Because the vast majority of the time, as seen in every religion you do not believe in, this is the product of erroneous perception (or "crazy fanatics"). Why not here as well?
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv Well..what about Scopes Monkey Trial? Obviously with matters of what should and should be allowed, you don't bring in empirical evidence to decide.
But then there's OJ Simpson's case, where you guessed it, circumstantial evidence is brought in to show he was a criminal. It's the basis on which anyone is judged to be guilty of a crime. For him: blood stains, DNA reports, bloody gloves, a knife, shoes, video tape, and other various items were used as evidence.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 Saying that evidence is not the sole relevant factor here, when evidence alone could indeed constitute sufficient proof of these Jesus-related claims if such evidence existed, seems like a distraction from the clear inadequacy of the evidence for these claims.
Imperfections in a certain system of justice and the outcomes it renders does nothing to undermine the continued importance of evidence itself and the need to acknowledge its central role in determining truth.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
@ZJemptv The kind of evidence you're suggesting "could" indeed be ideal, at least in our opinions.
What if God decided to do this event all over again, just so you could have a chance to "test" it?
Honestly though, I think even if we had a sound recording, it'd be called vague and acted, and if we had a video recording it would be fake and edited.
ndbass09 4 months ago
He has a motive for wanting to gather followers, destroy enemies, and he used God as a way to gain that.
Yet Christianity doesn't call people to kill enemies who refuse God, but love them and appeal for them to serve God. It's a call to sacrifice everything and serve Him, and again, what evidence is there that these people were just crazy fanatics who weren't sure of what they had seen? I can give you good reasons to consider the sanity of them if you like.
ndbass09 4 months ago
Miracles weren't given to impress people, entertain them, or heal them, but they were given to show that these eyewitnesses of God were given His stamp of approval, so that no one could deny them. And in fact, you can't just say that the events were made up. You have to come to the conclusion that these people were either telling the truth, or the worst, most outrageous liars to have ever lived- simply because of the certainty of their claim & the measures they used to show their trustworthiness
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 If people can be just as convinced by the alleged evidence in favor of their other religions, and yet you can discount their certainty and their evidence nonetheless, why is your chosen religion not equally in doubt for the same reasons? You could just be falsely persuaded by insufficient, absurd, and fraudulent claims, much like the followers of every other religion.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
What is the claim of Islam? For proof of its authenticity, it claims that is has the most poetic, beautiful, scriptures of all.. Check suras 10:37-38, or 2:23, or 17:88 or a statement in the Hadith, "The Qur'an is the greatest wonder among the wonders of the world. This book is second to none in the world according to the unanimous decision of the learned men in points of diction, style, rhetoric, thoughts and soundness of laws and regulations to shape the destinies of mankind." Subjective.
ndbass09 4 months ago
Check out Matthew 28...after Jesus' resurrection, the religious elite, those who were supposed to know all about the Scriptures and the prophecies concerning Jesus(Chief Priests/Elders), tried to cover it up by saying the disciples stole it. They were powerful men, they had plenty of money to help accomplish their goals. But they couldn't stop it. Even though powerful men wanted to stop people believing in Jesus, it somehow spread to those who decided to defend it to the point of martyrdom.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 The success and prevalence of a belief is not indicative of its truth. Obviously no one has been able to eradicate Islam or atheism, either. Are they just as true? By the way, someone deciding to die for the sake of a certain belief says nothing about its veracity. People do that a lot, for a variety of different beliefs. They might just be wrong, you know.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
You equated the scene Mt. Carmel to a science experience. Science is something we test with the tools and technology of our time to find out about why something works they way it does. The key to that is, WE test it. The point of that scene in the Bible is to show God's power over false man-made idols...and Elijah spoke as a prophet of God, a tool even. The better thing you should ask would be to have a prophet of God meet with false prophets.
ndbass09 4 months ago
@ndbass09 "The better thing you should ask would be to have a prophet of God meet with false prophets."
The results would be no different.
ZJemptv 4 months ago
oo for the atheist sacrafice can we put our joint of meet under a large metal pole and wait for a thunderstorm. can we can we. please say we can do this.
way2jaded1 4 months ago
We can meet your challenge on any sunny day-
it's called a magnifying lens.
WetlandsRemediation 4 months ago
You do me proud. Well said. BTW, any takers yet?
Deadman3913 6 months ago
Whoa she is ugly. She is even trying hard with her earrings.
Cutthroattitan 6 months ago
@Cutthroattitan SHE IS A HE
philipbase100 5 months ago
"And fire comes right out of the sky like WHOOSH!" Lmao Nice =D
ITSDeonTM 6 months ago
You know, I try to read the comments from the christians, but they are so hateful they are unreadable. What's with all this ridiculing another human, christians? Where do you get of judging anyone... isn't that expressly forbidden in your religion? Why do you take so much joy at the thought of a fellow human spending eternity in hell? I'd say the worst advertisement for christianity would be the christians.
marianware 7 months ago
While absence of evidence is technically not evidence of absence, to believe something in the absence of evidence is absurd. So, you can't prove God doesn't exist. So what? Doesn't mean he does exist either. All it means is you can't be 100% certain when you make your claims. It doesn't mean you should believe in him. After all, you can't prove Ra doesn't exist either & I've seen his chariot running across the sky. By the way, his chariot is running an hour slow this time of year. WTF is that?
TheCeejReturns 8 months ago
@TheCeejReturns We cant prove a negative, its impossible. But we can look around at all the evil, injustice, intolerance and such in the world and see either A) god doesn't exist, as a benevolent loving god would not allow such things to continue. Orrrrr B) Some form of god exist, but he's a callous dick who doesn't deserve for us to believe in him, much less praise him. Atheist and christians are a lot alike. Only difference is, we take our disbelief one step further. Ya digg ;D
ITSDeonTM 6 months ago
@ITSDeonTM
Or C) he is (or they are) not as powerful as believers in such things would have us believe. Either way, you didn't say anything I didn't say.
TheCeejReturns 6 months ago
@TheCeejReturns lol Now that I re-read it, My bad X) hahaha Screw up on my part.
ITSDeonTM 6 months ago
@ITSDeonTM
No worries. It wouldn't be the first time I was misunderstood and it won't be the last.
TheCeejReturns 6 months ago
The problem is, What happened was not someone's science experiment, and has nothing to do with this "ladys" puny demands. God is not some plaything Who hops at the beck and call of a hate filled freak who doesn't know if "it's" a a man or a woman. He answers to no one, and neither He nor those who belong to Him have anything to prove one way the other. We answer to Him not the other way around. Get smart with Him and He's not going to even answer you. The baal worshipers found that out fast.
mrtadreamer 8 months ago
God was not in skin as any other gods and goddesses from the mythology of pagans. But in the light of heaven! So God is a true god. And Baal is a oral fiction god. So we are not the worshipper of the mythology gods and goddesses. But God's wonders people of happiness!
LuvItachiWeasal 8 months ago
Don't they use that old "the age of miracles ended long ago.... Sorry, no repeatability guarateed" line?
BunrakukenIII 11 months ago
You're pretty animated in this video. I mean animated for you.
/watch?v=XV-Z9pm-UXw
Vrijheidx 1 year ago
I definitely think this should be done. And while all the religions are trying to get their gods to se things on fire, atheists could gather around their altar and celebrate things like music, dance, art, poetry and science - things that we as people have created to make us happy and fulfilled without any god. We have accomplished so much that we should be proud of, but totalitarian obedience isn't one of those things. Our potential as a species is enormous. Let's move forward.
kioskvaltare 1 year ago
From the scripture, "do not test your God." That was a one time deal. For you to ask this is to go against the word, but you don't believe so why even bring it up?
OpyPSL 1 year ago
My sister was right: Christian Ba'al is God
v1de0gamr 1 year ago
damn i guess i have to agree again hmmm
TheGarywilliams 1 year ago 3
@TheGarywilliams That's the beauty of logic and science ;)
lizzy310589 1 year ago 2
Oh for fuck's sake learn to say my name properly. Bail is a kind of ransom and a bale is made from hay.
KnockoffNigeI 1 year ago
I did this experement once.
I prepared a fire prayed to myself to light the fire and lit the fire.
So now I proved that I am god worship me.
rob5190 1 year ago 10
Incorrect of course, said expiriment involves a god and is thus sociological.
Of course its still rubbish, even if there is a god he may have better things to do then barbeque your things. Or maybe god just doesnt like to exert himself without the prospect of slaughtering heretics.
SirScourge 1 year ago
There could be any number of logical explanations for that story assuming it is true. A collaborator could have thrown some inflamed wood or fired a fire aroown from a distance, or Elijah could have just waited till everyone was tired and barely concious after the long hours of waiting and beating eachother and just taken a match(or sumtin like that) and set fire to it himself. If this isnt sarcastic then no-one kill a bull, just use one thats already dead :0 and use proper controls
1982mockingbird1982 1 year ago
Wait, God has BBQs? Awsome! I am joining umm...what ever kind of Christianity does that. I hope God is a good cook.
Jesses001 1 year ago
hehehe.. wow DJ, sexy geek sheek, wicked and dry sense of humor, soo very adorable x
highrik 1 year ago 3
mindless. gay or not - mindless. straight or not - mindless babble - mindless gay babble
TracyWalkerMaddy1 1 year ago
My god is a microwave.
davidls11 1 year ago 4
@ZJemptv This challenge is nonsense. Similar challenge: I demand that you recreate the exact scenario of the origins of the universe ... if you can't, I'll conclude that God must have created the universe. Your logic is severely flawed.
amonkeyinmypocket 1 year ago
@amonkeyinmypocket
LHC
gguilford72 1 year ago
@gguilford72 We can, silly. Someone, I'm not saying who, needs to brush up on his/her modern scientific research before posting his/her false premise and looking foolishly desperate.
bbmkanata 1 year ago
@amonkeyinmypocket We can, silly. Someone-I'm not saying who-needs to brush up on his/her modern scientific research before posting his/her false premise and looking foolish and desperate.
bbmkanata 1 year ago
@bbmkanata Go right ahead then. Your claim is empty without support.
I love how you people try to sound informed without actually saying anything of value. "Modern science blah blah research, blah blah, scientific science! Did you hear? I said SCIENCE and am therefore automatically right!"
The intellectual equivalent of, "nuh-uh!"
amonkeyinmypocket 1 year ago
@amonkeyinmypocket I echo only one example that gguilford72 provided:LHC
bbmkanata 1 year ago
@bbmkanata The LHC? Are you daft? I highly doubt the LHC existed at the origins of the universe.
Please though, just for kicks, explain how the LHC proves how the universe was created. You must be privy to knowledge even the scientists working with it are unaware of, so I would absolutely love to hear your answer. Wikipedia has a decent amount of information on the LHC if you'd like to copy and paste a bunch of it...
amonkeyinmypocket 1 year ago
@amonkeyinmypocket Even if no one can replicate similar (or the exact) conditions of Big Bang, it only states that Big Bang hasn't been tested and, at most, that there is no current explanation for the starting of this universe.
But your analogy isn't fair: you're not proposing any experiment to demonstrate/disprove that the Big Bang existed or an alternative experiment to prove/disprove that God created this universe. Propose an experiment and your Challenge will be similar to this one.
dcontard 11 months ago
Hehe, I like you. Keep it up.
PixelSlayer247 1 year ago
Christ is physically present in Holy Eucharist at every Catholic liturgy.
nuduaspiaggia 1 year ago
i want my steak medium rare pls
Brezable 1 year ago
Experiment: Team Atheist will take a piece of meat (sirloin will do), season it, and sear it in a buttered pan. Before the meat is done, add some shallots until tender and slightly golden, add a squirt of brandy, about half a cup of heavy cream, salt and pepper. Serve with a side of homemade fries and sautéed veggies.
Hypothesis: Would Team God heads collectively explode if they se atheists having fun and having a nice meal? (note to vegans: replace beef and daily with veggies and olive oil)
koshkatoverdrive 1 year ago 3
please tell me the exact chapter of this story. i want to read it... i enjoyed so much when you told it XD
onulrad 1 year ago
@onulrad It's 1 Kings 18:16-40. Google that to read it on free bible sites.
This was the story that put me on the path to atheism. I knew something was up when my second grade bible study teacher didn't want to go replicate the experiment in the parking lot. If it's true, then why not show us? We'd believe for life!!
It's also a great refutation of the idea that God doesn't like to be tested, or that he has a principled reason for not proving his existence, since he does both in this story.
HebaruSan 1 year ago 3
Funny stuff.
rustytool100 1 year ago
i wonder if Divinity would be pissed off if someone offered them Spam as a offering? I know id be one pissed off god. Im talkin flood
i1234t1234 1 year ago
Proof for El? Did Egyptian slaves(Israel) just quit & walk away w/ impunity? The proof of the story was removed from the great pyramid Giza by the French in the early 1900's. (defacing the greatest relic of mankind.) The history of what El did was engraved in that marble.
ElShadaiLives 1 year ago
I love this vid. So true, so powerful, so to the point:
"Howabout we do just like the Bible, and have a little scientific experiment"
Good, except one problem: No christian in his right mind would accept that challenge. All christians know that god is not empirically demonstrable, and not provable by science. They of course have all these cute little rationalizations for this fact, which usually boil down to: "he wants us to believe on faith" AKA "the argument from gullibility". lol
seanthedonconsidine 1 year ago
@seanthedonconsidine No Christian would accept that challenge simply because that is something from the Old Testiment. That kind of action, taken by God, stopped at the cross on which Jesus died, thus fulfilling the law. So, you are correct! No Christian, in his/her right mind would accept that challenge.
kyokogodai 1 year ago
@kyokogodai That's a rationalization. "Jesus fulfilled the law, thus god doesn't interact in the world any more". This is a fraudulent statement. There are numerous accounts in the bible of god working miracles in the world AFTER jesus died. A scientific test for god's existence would still be required also, as the claim "god exists and affects the world" is a scientific claim that reality is affected, thus you should be able to observe god's affect on reality, right? Then why can't we?
seanthedonconsidine 1 year ago
hehe i love the way you talk (you are so smart)
twilightwoods303 1 year ago
So you are playing a Mount Carmel experiment but the results will be the same as they were the first time. I can tell you that in Christ there is redemption and salvation from the wrath of God. Outside of Christ there is nothing but wrath and condemnation. But you probably have heard all this stuff before so I wont annoy you any further. After all you have heard all this before and you do not have any sleepless nights due to this. The silence can be deafening can it not?# of angels is wrong
CutcoLogic 1 year ago
Something to look forward to I presume. We are in a sort of Mount Carmel situation right now. The last act will be when Christ returns with ten thousand of his angels for the day of reckoning, I know, I know, you wanted to avoid the slaughter but unfortunately for unbelievers God is a Holy and Just God and those that refused to acknowledge their creator and address their wicked ways must pay and since you have nothing to offer God you must pay with an eternity in hell.
CutcoLogic 1 year ago
@CutcoLogic
How is god a just GOD if he punishes someone innocent for someone else's mistake. He maybe GOD but he is definitely neither just nor merciful.
govegetarian100 1 year ago
@CutcoLogic cutcologic, have you ever heard of godot, godot came here looked around got bored and left.
when is jesus returning?
2012? are you certain? cmon, give me a date! THEN i could take you seriously.
Paradoxical003 1 year ago
Noble task you are on, to disprove something does not exist that does not exist to people who dont care for what you have to say. Irony is it not! If the Bible is true God will not even blink at your blasphemous request. God accomplishes what he wants how he wants and when he wants. If the Bible is true and you have been able to disturb a Christians faith the bible says it would have been better for you to hang a large millstone around your neck and be drowned in the deepest sea!
CutcoLogic 1 year ago
@CutcoLogic
I like you're logic, you are quoting from the Bible and making a good argument based off of the Bible.
God Bless You!
dramionefanatic 1 year ago
This must really begin to make you wonder whos gone mad. Them for believing in something that you cannot hold or quantify or make demands from or yourself for spending all your time trying to proof to believers something does not exist that does not exist. Actually from your point of view it would have to be like spending your entire life disproving that Santa Claus exists. Then you can say philosophical things like, this belief is holding back mankind from evolving.
CutcoLogic 1 year ago
what a great sense of humor you have,,, just because anyone makes a choice doese'nt make that choice a reality and that the beauty of the bible I believe in, the God I believe in,,,you get to make the choice for yourself,,, I act and believe that your choice, whatever it is,,,is given to you by the God of my understanding. I think christians that have this wierd need to be right are just as nuts as the athiests who dare someone to prove the very thing they can only find themselves.
InfiniteMischief 1 year ago
Comment removed
nevermind1130 2 years ago
And then Elijah had all the prophets of Baal slaughtered. The End! ZJ, I love your sense of humor!
JPa311979 2 years ago
I use to think about this story of prophet Elijah and the baal worshippers as well. If this 'experiment or show' can be demonstrated in this modern world then, automatically many should believe in God. But it seems to me that in Xtianity there is much words than action and MUCH THEORIES THAN PRACTICAL..Thanks ZJemptv for uploading this videos. I'm gonna subscribe...
rreality1 2 years ago
My proof that God does not exist:
If God truly existed, then it goes without saying that God is the author of nature, knowledge, and the distribution of it. Then why has God never bestowed a single mathematical proof on His followers - and scientists and mathematicians (who do not believe in gods) are the ones who discover these things?
It is because God does not exist.
DanceInYourRoom 2 years ago 3
You and I park our cars in the same garage.
TIMOTHYSAARINEN 2 years ago 14
Then again my proof is too long. Penn and Teller gave a more concise proof:
"It takes men 2 minutes to orgasm, and women 20 minutes to orgasm. What other proof do you need that there is no god?"
DanceInYourRoom 2 years ago 34
Assuming you're a woman, you can soon expect some idiot claiming that he, himself, can get you off much faster, to post a comment. Believe me, many men are all too predictable. And before I'm accused of it, I am not gay.
TIMOTHYSAARINEN 2 years ago
Get me off much faster? Srly, what's the rush.
Average of 2-6hrs. Viparita Maithuna.
DanceInYourRoom 2 years ago 2
DanceInYourRoom, I must admit that I had to google Viparita Maithuna. Now that I know what it means, I have one thing to say: I LIKE IT!
TIMOTHYSAARINEN 2 years ago
Wasn't that the song from the Lion King?
terracottapie 1 year ago
@DanceInYourRoom "It takes men 2 minutes to orgasm, and women 20 minutes to orgasm. What other proof do you need that there is no god?" That is relative. )
Ulfvaldr2012 1 year ago
@Ulfvaldr2012 ..perhaps someone needs to work on their technique...
helpmetony 1 year ago
As a non believer in any omni* deity, I'm going to have to chime in with "that's a lousy argument".
You, a single (I presume) Goyim (you're not Jewish are you?) person are asking everyone (not prophets) to prove to you that God exists via A N other slab of meet.
1 Kings was about the entire Jewish people worshipping a false God and the prophet Elijah laying down some righteous smiting.
More to come.
akariNoRyu 2 years ago
Unless you are the entirety of the Jewish people and unless you can find someone the Jewish people call a Prophet, I'm afraid your argument doesn't really stand.
Leaving aside the false analogy, your argument hinges on the presumption that "If God exists, He/She/It must answer any challenge to prove His/Her/Its existance".
akariNoRyu 2 years ago
Throughout the bible god was more than willing to prove himseff yet in modern times we never see it. hmmm Could it have been stories (outright lies) told to the masses to get them to keep paying their tithes?
qmeche123 2 years ago
Well, its Labor Day 2009, did "God" set any cows on fire yet ?
RustyCyler 2 years ago
Is it a guy or a girl?? o.O
koskowa 2 years ago
I think the flying spaghetti monster is just as plausable
tspaige1 2 years ago 2
Excellent observation, I know I myself can't muster up the motivation to read the crappy Bible
adidaht 2 years ago
Comment removed
chaosvii 2 years ago
I am not going to say that a god is either possible or impossible to exist but I am going to say that the wonderful works of Magicians such as David Copporfield and Uri Geller do give me a reason to doubt that what they do can be explained with optical illusion theories. However, I'm quite sure many of their tricks have been exposed by people who can try to prove magic or trickery. How genuine is the result of the attempt, I wonder.
allianceofblasphemy 2 years ago
Good video! I respect your views and your choice to voice them!
sublet86 2 years ago
It's just a little humorous and ironic that this unknown tranny just disproved the entire faith structure of a few hundred million people in a little over 3 minutes.
Wow, I guess that's about all there is to see in this life. The truth is pretty boring, but at least you found the truth. That's always good~
OsakaChiyoDestroyU 2 years ago
Heh, I just want to add. Finding the truth isn't too bad. I just discovered Einsteinian relativity today.
To you Christians, that's sort of like finding Jesus. But better.
The truth ain't half bad.
OsakaChiyoDestroyU 2 years ago
We walk by faith not by sight my friend. The manifestation of God has been made know to all, so men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-24 Your wisdom is foolishness to God.
Formertelecomguy 2 years ago
Your condescension is repugnant to All.
Still waiting for him to be made known to all.
metalshoes 2 years ago
He is all around you my friend. When you are ready and seek Him he will answer you. I am not being condescending, what greater love is there then to save my brother or sister from death. You will at some point in your life come to the realization that you need God and then your eyes and ears will be open to what others see and hear and you currently believe is foolishness. I know, as I was where you are now for most of my life. No debate is sought, I have said my peace.
Formertelecomguy 2 years ago
You assume i need saving. Yes, you are very presumptuous. You have no idea of my circumstances yet you claim to know what has and will happen. Im sorry, my friend, what you believe is foolishness.
metalshoes 2 years ago
@Formertelecomguy To me, your motivation to be saved does not sound like a realization that one needs God but rather a realization that one fears death. Gaining the reward of eternal life and escaping death and/or punishment is not based on free will or morality. It is coercion which appeals to self-serving prudence. I have yet to hear any good reason to believe in the Bible God which does not involve threat or bribe.
MySocksSmell2 2 years ago
Your religion amounts to flaming bull.
kaminarigaston 2 years ago
So why did he "gift" us to our wisdom, then? Why did he make an exception to be sighted in the bible and not years later in modern day culture?
HourglassxXxRaychel 2 years ago
a threatening video about hell but no ones taken up the challenge. i wonder why?
BornUnderABadSign89 2 years ago
I'm confused as to why this guy is wearing lipstick and earrings.
MrJentipede 2 years ago
Same reason anyone does, I guess.
deltafoverdeltax 2 years ago
@ 1:31 was that Kirby in the microwave?
koreanrobot47 2 years ago
Lets pretend there is an almighty God creator of the universe. Would this almighty being be much of a God if any of us could control God's actions by demanding proof through some experiment? You could probably pay Ziegfried and Roy to do this trick if you paid them a substantial amount of money. Bet they'd even through in a jumping Tiger for the right amount.
commonteri 2 years ago 2
Since I couldn't tell if this were a male or female I only watched long enough to write this.
Ramubay 2 years ago