Stadium Arcadium - CD vs LP - STOP THE LOUDNESS WAR!

[crazygeek777]

comparing digital versus vinyl on a youtube video. that makes sense.

[ulliversum]

STOP THE LOUDNESS!!!!!!!!!

[cursedswordsman]

It makes my ears hurt...

[chickensandbeandip]

There is a shit ton of sound loss to when you go through all the process to get to the final vinyl. Compare the master tapes to cd. Or even the tapes to vinyl. Then this argument will be more realistic.

[chickensandbeandip]

The cd sounds better. The Lp is flat sounding. You can hear the texture of the fuzz better on the cd version. The lp sounds muffled. Vinyl sucks. But so does stadium arcadium. That stopped being good after one hot minute.

[roebeet]

Trying to compare these on a youtube video with its own crappy audio compression is not an optimal solution, unfortunately. Suffice it to say, going just on those waveforms the LP likely has better dynamics.

And @AeroVortex92, if you ripped the vinyl to 16/44 and burned to CD, they would likely be different as the original masterings themselves are different. Whether or not one is "better" than the other is up to the listerner, of course.

[Wick3DSteely]

Will someone explain the difference to me? I honestly don't hear it, except the higher volume on the CD.

[AeroVortex92]

I'm fairly certain that if you rip the vinyl tracks to a .wav file at 44,100Hz sample rate and then burn the tracks to a CD, there won't be a difference between the vinyl and CD.

[rosskolnikov]

@AeroVortex92 I did exactly that and you are wrong in that assessment. The CD medium actually has the ability to deliver MORE dynamic range than does the lp, but choices made by the mastering engineer meant that it didn't get pressed that way.

[AeroVortex92]

@rosskolnikov I meant that If you rip vinyl to a CD then compare the CD with the Vinyl tracks to the original vinyl, there won't be a big difference. I didn't mean to compare the CD with the ripped tracks to the retail original pressing of the CD.

[tri400]

we need to occupy not Wall Street, but a record label and re-release CDs in 2 versions.....the original unmastered recording....and another version that is crap and loud....simple.

[InfamousPR]

Is this forum either flooded with baby boomers defending vinyl or geeky white boys talking about crappy banjo indie rock music? I think is both.

[petegiant]

@InfamousPR

The point is that with the cd version heavy compression has been used to increase the perceived loudness of the recording. In this process the difference between loud and soft is decreased, which means that the recording feels stifled, plastic and has the life removed.

The vinyl master has preserved the original recordings dynamics and clarity.

eg. Listen to the clarity of diction in the vocals on the vinyl.

The is a mastering issue not a format issue.

[InfamousPR]

CD's nowadays sound much better than LP's. They dont have that crackling hiss noise LPs have between pauses.

[rosskolnikov]

@InfamousPR Apples and oranges.

[sardhouse76]

vinyl RULE

[ethai1]

It actually sounds OK to me, i don't hear anything wrong about it. just like californication, i dont really know whats wrong with its mastering (maybe except the bass drum on Around The World)

But anyway, if you think that's bad, that's NOTHING Compared to Metallica's Death Magnetic. Just try to listen to one track in there, and then try to tell me that mastering on RCHP's Albums Suck.

[fatcatbuzz]

I'm glad I found this on vinyl for sure.

[ajuk1]

Why did you not match the levels?

[Lylodile]

Wow vinyl Dani California sounds way better!

[stevobath]

Unfortunately most people are happy with their shite mp3 sound.Until people start caring about sound lazy techj as I call it will continue to F&&k with sound.Im so glad I am old enough too appreciate & remember vinyl.Ive played so many records to youngsters whove maybe got the cd or mp3 of a band & they ALWAYS hear things that they didnt even know were there.Obviously a good stereo helps,but once again people are obssessed with having everything shrunk.Cant beat seperates for sound quality:)

[dubified89]

One thing about vinyl that sucks is that every time I look for the vinyl version of an album like this it's that 180 gram shit and costs 2 or 3 times the price of what a record used to

[alinthebest]

sounds the same to me...

[Huntman1394]

Does anyone know if RHCP I'm With You part of the loudness war?

[BalzarySwe]

@Huntman1394 Almost as loud as Californication.

[Zawiedek]

This is a good example. Because the CD versions sound louder, a true comparison would mean to bring both versions to the same RMS level. To mimic that, I listened to the CD example, then raise the volume at the beginning of the Vinyl example for equal apparent loudness (about 10% for me).

[haza942]

hate to be the wet towel here, but i dont see too much of a difference, i think perhaps because i get off on the feel of a song more maybe

but on cali i can certaintly agree 'Saviour' burns my ears, always have to turn it down

[dubified89]

@haza942 You're a wet towel!!

[Nastara]

vinyl version is 100% less ass.

[elsongs]

Do you happen to know the average RMS level of the Vinyl version for these songs?

[BigTwitchy]

Time to buy a Turntable...

[JoeyDrunko]

@BigTwitchy Not only do records sound better, even cassettes sound better. I just boughtt a tape deck with hx pro, and it sounds extremely clear.

[deansinghgill]

Hump de Bump is track 5...

[ruukaoz]

Vinyls sound better because onto it goes a different (better) master (you know that). CD's get the master they get is because its a digital medium, so its the same master that goes to the radios. Although CD's have better dynamic qualities. I hope you know this.

[Thronsohn]

this is horrible music!

[drummerjen]

@MrDemilord I don't think so I used my headphones and the loudnesswar version cymbals sounded the worst...

[richhead2011]

The cd version of the guitar sounds so much better than the vinyl version when played thorugh my 5.1 surround sound Hi-Fi system. You could really hear the efffects, while the vinyl sounded over amplified and a bit scratchy. Sorry, but to me the cd versions sounded a lot fresher and cleaner. Perhaps you need a better turntable/stylus? Or, perhaps its just that cd's are MILES better than vinyl? Try and play a vinyl in the car going down the freeway at 70mph! CD's RULE!! MP3's are loads better!

[MrDemilord]

@richhead2011

Could be the record player and A/D\Soundcard that has been used...

But it should sound MILES better then the CD... Vinyl has been mastered by Steve Hoffman the king of mastering engineers.. It has way more dynamics and should bring way more detail then CD because of the limitations of the CD

[MrDemilord]

@MrDemilord Dont forget this is youtube and it is COMPRESSED audio so it could also be artifects u no

[manueletchart]

I WANT THE LP!!! hahaha

[DoubleO711]

I do not hear the difference here. Infact the only albums I actually can notice a problem with the loudness on are Californication and Death Magnetic.

Fortunately I found a download of Californication that is UNMASTERED! AND IT SOUNDS BETTER!

[Paspiedreamcast]

there are a few tones on the low end on vinyl that I can't hear on the CD

[nickyjohnson102]

i actually prefer the CD version of Dani California's chorus. More importantly, the band are happy with how the CD turned out.

[amoergosum3]

Haha....you gotta love it >>>

Check out the wikipedia page of the upcoming Red Hot Chili Peppers album:

Next to "Vladimir Meller – mastering" it says:

NO! HELP US ALL!

[KStealed]

im happy not being that geek to find a difference :p

just love the arcadium <3

[MrDemilord]

I can listen to the vinyl in 1 time, I had to stop listening danii california cd version.. ears started to bleed

[Paspiedreamcast]

@elliotnicklin if you listened to the LP for real, you would hear a difference. It sounds inferior in this vid because it has been digitised then compressed by YouTube.

[drummerjen]

@ricorianGuardian But the cymbals sound so bad :(

[MrDemilord]

@drummerjen I think thats your speakers/headphone your using...

[RadeonZero]

The engineer that works with Rush, Richard Chycki said that 'he does the most he can so that the mastering engineer doesn't have to do that much and ESPECIALLY make the songs super loud...'. (He wasn't joking either). But one thing is mastering engineers are being forced to master music at a louder level...Even though Rich's guy is pretty good about it, he's being forced to master at a louder level which most of these mastering engineers are getting pissed at being forced to master louder.

[ffhaksf]

For Hump De Bump the ideal solution would be to have the less compressed vinyl version from the start up to before the vocals start. Then, some more compression to have that powerful, thick sound. The beginning profits from the spaciousness and clarity that the vinyl version provides.

[RicorianGuardian]

For Danni California I have to admit I kind of like the shitty version.

[neostriderbzk]

Hey, I enjoy'd the song! RIAA should actually reward you. You advertised the song for me instead of costing them money!

[elliotnicklin]

It's a completely different mix. Ha. Wow. Didn't expect that. I prefer the cd mix though :/ Feel the vinyl lacks a substantial level of power even after turning up the segments of the video displaying the vinyl wave form to compensate for the quieter mix.

[Pavel1915]

Hm, I didnt't found any difference. Maybe a slight or on this youtube version is unhearable.

[Roodski]

true it does sound better. that fuzzed out guitar sounds sick! gotta find this LP

[cleanmusic213]

LP's mastering is way better. CD version is just too fatiguing to listen too.

[JimijaymesGuitarist]

@cleanmusic213 It doesn't make much sense either cos CD has more dynamic range so can get louder without overcompressing but everyone wants CD's to sound like everything is just below 0dB at all times.

[FusionHelsinki]

Only thing that is missing in the Dani California Vinyl version is some high end sparkle on the overdriven guitar in the chorus. The same thing i find in the Metallica's DM GHIII -version. I believe that the guitars have been left dark on purpose so as to allow digital clipping to create te harmonic content and not sound instanly horrible.

Still, the vinyl mastering is better by miles and miles.

[ssnatcherss]

Even before I had a clue about audio fidelity and compression I noticed the drums sounded unflattering and distorted on this CD.

[djverdugo7]

The first song sounds too overwhelming/harsh to listing to, the LP sounds better.

[Diosukekun]

the vinyl version makes it sound like one of those really old bands my dad listens to, lol

[LemonsTangerines]

The better comparison would be Especially in Michigan. The guitar solo sounds completely different and it sounds so much better in the LP than in the CD, and this is coming from a non-audiophile. Just goes to show how damaging the loudness war is.

[ThomasWhatever]

Even though I listen to 12 € Sony Earphones, the Bass is a lot more significant in the LP Version.

However I have to agree with 13eastie

[Satlam]

What shocks me is that Vlado Meller is still allowed anywhere near high profile releases (he's a "Senior Mastering Engineer" with Sony?!).

[mvyper]

@Satlam Often the blame is up to the artists that want higher and higher masters; a lot of mastering engineers have claimed to be against loudness war, but they have to fulfil the customers requests.

[sneskid]

@mvyper

Sometimes, it is the artists. But most of the time, it's the brilliant folks in the marketing departments of the recording companies. The real sad thing, is that it's not just the new music. This exact same treatment is also applied to popular mass produced remasters, of what were once AMAZING recordings, from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

[sneskid]

@Satlam

And I bet this WAS NOT Meller's decision. It's well known, that mastering engineers are actually often PUSHED to do this kind of thing, by the very companies they are working for.

That's *PART* of the reason why it's called "The loudness war".

[13eastie]

There may be some truth in what you say, but the examples you pick show that either you don't know what you're talking about or you are tone deaf.

The chorus from Dani California? "Clean, dynamics" guitar? This is one of the most distorted guitar sounds John Frusciante ever used. By definition it is already massively compressed and is certainly neither clean nor particularly dynamic.

Posting this kind of stuff on youtube in lo-fi format to be streamed out of laptop speakers is pointless.

[squierplayer]

I don't like the remix on Dani California, my favorite part of the song is when the heavy distortion comes in right at the chorus. That part gets me pumped and it's also fun to play.

[Meteotrance]

The most amazing is when i listen old LP like Boney M it's sound awesome but when i listen new LP like electro stuff or New rock album it's sound louder too, cause now, we can have much more loud sound in new LP master, but the rules of Stereo is always the same than the older LP album, that's why a vynile master must be made by real sound engineer, but CD have rule's too and those brickwall of sound, must be banished. The fault is of the Radio Station and TV that want louder and louder sound.

[TheUb3rpanda]

CD version sounds fine to me :/

[FabianoEletron]

Além da compressão, o som da versão em CD parece muito metálico.

[RHCPFreaklolNEW]

............This stuff is just so fucking stupid to me. You act like the world is ending. It's just fucking stupid in my opinion.

[mozpiano2]

@RHCPFreaklolNEW The world isn't ending no, but it is still a great annoyance to people who care about audio quality.

[xlowpitch]

@agarcia2995 if your ears aren't that trained yet concentrate just on the kick and snare drum. in the LP version both have great dynamics, punch and sustain. they cut through the mix well without sounding annoying. if you will it sounds more like the "real thing". the overly compressed CD version on the other hand greatly lacks punch and definition, it's like a big pile of sound and in my opinion it's really unpleasing to the ear.

[GerSHAK]

@agarcia2995 You need to watch in 480p, otherwise there is almost no difference.

[motorheadrules1988]

The LP version is sooo punchy!

[Guitarstring187]

you really can tell the difference on the ears my ears actully hurt more with the shitty wave form

[n1nja092]

makes me wanna cry

[AdamSSB]

Wow.  Amazing difference. Makes me sad :(

[stratocat9999]

This is a great example of the mind set of mastering engineers that create CD pre-masters. It's not the media itself!

There is a time and place for compression and limiting, but not on a mix that does need it, trying to tailor it to a perceived idea of what will sell. Back in the 60's, Capitol engineers took the first Beatles masters and added compression and reverb to perfect mixes for American record buyers. This is the same presumption when creating a CD pre-master. Nobody wants this!

[FetaCheese222]

@stratocat9999 It's interesting, becuase the sound is being made louder for the people who don't really care about the sound quality, so if that's the case, why not just make it more dynamic, since the teeny-boppers aren't going to notice a difference? It's like Greg Calbi says, it's pointless, why do people in the CD market force think that if you've bought two CDs, you going to enjoy the one that is loudest more? It's stupid.

[RonansRecordingShow]

@stratocat9999 I feel pretty confident that the decision to make the CD insanely loud came from producer Rick Rubin (same guy that made the decision on Metallica's Death Magnetic) and not the mastering engineer. Almost every mastering engineer I know (myself included) would rather leave a little room for the tracks to maintain a bit of the dynamics.

[stratocat9999]

@RonansRecordingShow Producers are the mastering engineer's bane! But I have known some mastering engineers that go by formula rather than ear. If you want to hear a reall horrible example, check out Paul McCartney's 'Memory Almost Full'. It sounds like it was recorded in a closet. Perhaps Sir Paul's ear is going? Processing is necessary to a degree in most situations, but not so heavy handed! This is as a bad as LP's mixed for FM radio in the 70's. Remember the original Eagles releases?

[andy92811]

Bring back vinyl and ditch the ipod. Thumbs me up if you agree. ;)

[kessingerjohnny]

The LP has a better sound... I am a recording artist and REALLY hate songs that are over compressed... The LP sounds more natural.

[42317]

I dunno what strange CDs you buy... I checked a number of mine and they have no excessive loudness levels.

[sneskid]

@42317

(yea I know this is an old post)

What CDs do you have, and when were they made? What kind of music is it? This trend with CDs started taking off around the mid 90s, and has steadily gotten worse. In the past couple of years, they've even resorted to BRICKWALLING! In digital recording, you CANNOT go higher than 0 dBFS, PERIOD. There is no headroom, beyond that. If you try to, the loud peaks quite literally get "clipped" off, which creates extremely unpleasant distortion.

[42317]

@sneskid

My CDs cover almost the complete musical range between Bach and Slayer, and by far most of them were pressed in the EU and after 1995.

I checked several CDs' loudness levels via Adobe Audition and they were okay. That's why I'm wondering what strange CDs some people get to buy or whether this phenomenon was not just a phantom created by attention addicts.

[BadlyBentPub]

@42317 Are you ever watching a TV show at a comfortable volume, only to have a commercial come on that seems twice as loud? A lot of that isn't ACTUAL volume, but "perceived" volume because the commercials have the dynamics completely stripped out, allowing the the OVERALL loudness to be increased dramatically.

If you CAN'T hear the differences, then lucky you, because you don't have to worry that music is sounding crappier and crappier...I envy you.

PS - I'm far from an attention addict.....

[42317]

@BadlyBentPub

Yes, I've heard about loud commercials, but I never got to check that myself because I don't watch TV.

Are there reliable data about the distribution of "loudness war CDs" across the globe?

Maybe only certain areas are affected?

[sneskid]

@42317

Now, is that clipping effect (combined with the overuse of dynamic range compression and limiting) audible to you? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. However, to many of us with REAL amplifiers and speakers as well as an ear for how the music is really *supposed* to sound, it's downright "offensive" for lack of a better term. Personally, I cannot listen to this for more than a few minutes, without actually feeling PAIN - and that has nothing to do with how loud I have my volume control set.

[xargos]

The transition to digital audio can be thanked for this mess. With vinyl, mastering had to be done more carefully to make sure the stylus could properly track the record. While the total available dynamic range was lower, the amount used was higher.

[gamesDAMNED]

@xargos We had great sounding CDs back in the '90s. Throw on Soundgarden't Superunknown sometime and marvel at the depth and richness of the sound. There's always been an arms race in the music business; it's just that the last decade has seen this "loudness" (in truth, compression) obsession has completely taken over in the last decade. Now, music sounds just horrific. And I do agree with you about vinyl, and thankfully the LP versions of albums will sound more dynamic than the CD.

[JiveDadson]

@xargos Digital is capable of much more dynamics than vinyl. That was one of the original selling points. Listen to a CD that was mastered before 1992. I recently scored an original 1985 CD of Brothers in Arms. (I had one when it was new, but I lost it.) I had forgotten how fantastic it sounds. Startling clarity. The re-issue is bland and muddy by comparison. Not as bad as some, but distinctly inferior to the original version.

[bartat404]

@xargos Not necessarily. The transition to digital audio was the catalyst for it to be easier to ruin. If the people in charge would pay the delicate attention needed, digital COULD sound just as good as vinyl, if not better in some cases. Your point is very valid though.

[Agent2306]

Hmm its an interesting point. To be honest I didn't have that much of an issue with the CD version. I'd make the point that Frusciante's Distorted guitar is supposed to sound dirty, agressive and crunchy :/

[Bobertoq]

@Agent2306 The guitar is supposed to sound dirty, aggressive and crunchy. The problem is, on the CD version, the audio quality is exceptionally poor, whereas on the vinyl, it is exceptionally exceptional. The difference isn't that clear on this YouTube video, but if you listen to the vinyl with hi-fi equipment, it will sound phenomenal. The CD does not.

[ultimateguitar553]

Its funny that we have all this high tech digtal mastering equipment with the capabilites of making gorgeous sounding records but yet we heavily brickwall our music and make it sound like shit in order for it to be louder just to sell more copies and grab the consumers attention.

One reason why I hate the music industry

[rudisimo666]

@REPOMAN24722 you must be stupid

[REPOMAN24722]

@rudisimo666 the cd is obviously more clearer

[Muscleduck]

The lp version has more dynamics. You can hear it in the voice too, especiallu in the 2nd song.

[BlackmaxDK]

OMG i could really hear the difference on the Dani California song... the drumpunch were clear voices are clear everything is clear :O damn

[mrbouncelol]

the fact is that most people have no idea about music, but they like it louder. 99% of ppl don't hear the artifacts that come from this type of overcompression, so it is advantageous for the record company if they have the record mastered this way

[markuscc]

@mrbouncelol Isn't that what a volume switch is for? If you like loud music you can turn up the volume switch without completely destroying the audio quality.

[mrbouncelol]

@markuscc

I agree. as I said, record companies will keep doing this because most people only hear the increased volume (percieved as increased impact), and can not hear the poor quality...

I'm not saying that's a good thing... In fact, that's a terrible thing. But that is what's happening :p

[l3v3e]

I never said that vinyl is better than the cd.

This video shows the phenomenon of loudness war on the basis of Stadium Arcadium. That's it. The CD version was mastered by Vlado Meller and the vinyl version is better, and the only reason its better is Steve Hoffman. He did a brilliant job on this record. Check.

The CD version is horribly overcompressed: loud, noisy. My question is why are we all using CDs and digital formats, if we ruin the final material with (over)compressing?

[foketesz]

@l3v3e

being a big fan of high def digital, I have to say that generally a good vinyl contains better sounding music, and I am convinced that the reason is the medium's limitations. To master for vinyl you better know what you are doing... CD tolerates (apparently) all kinds of inconsistencies that simply wouldn't translate to vinyl, for example high freq harshness (usually an after effect of over comp), low freq on one side only, etc.

[TigerSupercatE1]

@l3v3e cd and digital formats are fine, aslong as the producers keep the dynamics. Bjork 'debut' is a brilliant example of a cd album with a huge dynamic range :) however i partly agree as these albums are few and far between. Coldplay's ROCBTTH and x&y are two prime modern examples of albums being ruined by the loudness war!

[greenfreeblue]

So I kind of hear it. Could someone message me the distinct characteristics between the CD sound and the LP sound. I'm kind of in the dark with this but I want to learn what to listen for and what makes the CD a poorer choice than the LP. Thanks.

[2pacbiggie4334]

I'll message you when I get back from school. Do know though, that the vinyl is the better choice. Not simply because it's vinyl, though that has something to do with it, but because it's uncompressed, which can make a world of difference

[carneyfex]

@2pacbiggie4334 Please do note that a record being in CD format does not PER SE mean it is compressed. In reality CD allows for a lot bigger dynamic range than LP, however, most of this range is simply not used in pursuit for loudness. Old CDs (80's and early 90's) do not have these compression issues and sound perfect, because record companies still had some traces of sanity left back then.

[2pacbiggie4334]

@carneyfex

i meant un compressed in that it has more than just 700mb of data. cds are perfect? i wouldn't say so.

and why bother with 96db of dynamic range if we never use them? even back in the 80s all 96 were never used!

[carneyfex]

@2pacbiggie4334 Audio CDs actually have 800MB of data because less space is used for error checking (it is not as important to restore audio data bit-for-bit). Anyway, digital media can't be "perfect" just because it is discrete and it is only as accurate as half of its sampling rate (Nyquist frequency). However, how many actual people hear harmonics that reach 22050 Hz?

On top of that, CDs are a lot cheaper to produce. CDs only get bad reputation because of insane record execs raping music.

[2pacbiggie4334]

@carneyfex

look you have your opinion, i have mine, and all i can say is nothing compares to vinyl imo. by all means go ahead and buy cds. I just think that we can end the loudness wars by buying more vinyl.

[carneyfex]

@2pacbiggie4334 Well, fighting against this CD loudness insanity is something I can definitely agree on, so cheers, whatever your means to achieve that are. To me a well-mastered CD and a well-mastered vinyl are both pleasant to listen to, and I'm a firm believer that both kinds of media are good in their own right, hence I am a little bit disturbed when someone says that CDs are crap just because they are CDs.

[2pacbiggie4334]

@carneyfex

i never said cds were crap. i said id rather listen to something that isnt only *800 mb in size

[Watcher3223]

@carneyfex

"Audio CDs actually have 800MB of data because less space is used for error checking"

To clarify, CDs have a theoretical maximum of around 700-800 MB. And, depending on the length of the album, not all of the maximum capacity will be used.

For discussing error correction, it's more apt to discuss it considering the carrier bandwidth in realtime before EFM decoding and CIRC.

And, even then, bandwidth is only part of it; efficiency of the correction algorithm is another factor.

[Watcher3223]

@carneyfex

"(Digital media) is only as accurate as half of its sampling rate (Nyquist frequency)"

In PCM, don't forget quantization. You can't plot the waveform's frequency (sampling) without also plotting its amplitude (quantization) in a given space of time.

16-bit = 65,536 steps (32,768 halves, one upper and one lower, for measuring peaks and valleys of the waveform with a zero crossing in the middle).

Take dithering into account and you have about 96 dB of dynamic range to play with.

[Watcher3223]

EFM (8-14 Modulation) is a way to make redundant and resilient the reading of data off of the disc as a way to account for any abnormalities in the read, such as from disc damage or beam obstructions (dust, fingerprints, et al.). The raw read off of the disc must be decoded from EFM first before any errors can be corrected and the PCM stream demodulated.

[Watcher3223]

@carneyfex

CIRC (Cross Interleaved Reed-solomon Code) is the error correction component, using parity data to precisely restore the original PCM signal in the event of an error; an "imprecise" restoration only occurs if the damage to the uncorrected signal is beyond the correction threshold, forcing the CIRC engine to interpolate the missing data rather than correct it back the way it's supposed to be according to the parity check.

[Watcher3223]

In addition, the majority of vinyl albums released utilizes the RIAA curve for noise reduction and groove density management. An emphasis curve is applied on the master tape destined to cut the master disc, which compresses the high frequencies to the midrange while rolling down the amplitude response from midrange to low frequencies.

[Watcher3223]

The compression in high frequencies down to the midrage provides for noise reduction while the roll down of the amplitude of midrange to low frequencies reduces their energy, which would consume spacing between grooves.

Upon playback, when the raw signal from the pickup goes through a phono preamp, a reverse curve is applied to equalize the signal, expanding the high frequencies down to the midrange while boosting the midrange to low frequencies.

[Watcher3223]

@2pacbiggie4334

In short, vinyl does indeed make use of signal compression and expansion processes in order to make long play discs practical.

Pulse code modulation does not require signal compression and expansion of any kind on Compact Disc.

And CD has a higher data density than the typical LP record primarily because the modulation scheme for writing the signal into a physical representation is more efficient on CD (EFM) than it is on vinyl (signal direct to groove).

[Watcher3223]

Those points made, there are superb sounding CDs and vinyl as well as horrible sounding CDs and vinyl.

Despite the differences in technology, both can result in good fidelity provided that the **PEOPLE** using the technology are competent in creating the end product all the way from its genesis on paper as written music to its ultimate realization as a recording on a form you can play.

The whole point: PEOPLE have made the choice that it's more important to sound LOUD rather than balanced.

[capitalistpig1968]

The uncompressed version sounds SO MUCH better. There is simply no comparison.

[jesuzizinmybedroom]

actually the difference is quite noticably different! il be buying me some records :)

hump song sucks so bad

[geoffwoodwogga]

Be nice to hear a CD of the remastered version. CD is capable of double the dynamic range of an LP. Remastering does NOT mean compressing jasongatt1986. Try a remastered Beatles album - you'll be surprised.

[jasongatt1986]

i was thinking to myself a few months ago. "i would listen to this (rhcp)if it wern't recorded so damn loud" This is the best thing any audio engineer could do.  PLEASE KEEP IT UP! Im am willing go buy vinyl and rip it to disc, if thats what it takes.

Now they're "REMASTERING" the beatles etc....YOU FUCKING IDIOTS for compressing shit!! the actuall recordings of the beatles were as good as they're ever gonna get!

As if the audio engineers back then didn't know what they're doing!

[Stevemasta3000]

I did finally find it and it is fucking great!!

[Stevemasta3000]

where can i download the lp version in high quality?

[Stevemasta3000]

I got the "messed up" album myself but I want to burn the good files on a CD for my car. It seems like you got the files? ;-)

[MiracleKD18]

@Stevemasta3000

You can't download it, since LP stands for those big, 33 rpm Vinyl records, which are analog and NOT digital.

[Rockstaralan]

Perhaps you should DO some research before stating that as a fact...There are SEVERAL tools available for ripping and converting your vinyl to digital/MP3 format and then burning it to disc.

[Stevemasta3000]

Like I said... I have managed to get the LP Rip and the quality is great ;-)

Its 700 MB .wav per CD, so it fits perfectly well on 2 CDs like the original one!

[Mawerick77]

Proper dynamic range really does make music come alive. Digital compression just suffocates it.

[Mariachi153]

@Mawerick77 and makes it unlistenable.

[themancable]

Yep that's pretty obvious. I wish they'd re-release the Steve Hoffman master on CD. The same goes for their other recent albums (esp- Californication).