I agree with Boombap420, it nice that it can penetrate that far but, what about stopping power? If it had great stopping power don't you think the military would use it instead of the 9mm?
@boombap420 I hope people don't start wanting penetration in civilian defense guns. They'll be more people shooting through a wall and hurting their kids. The best are rounds that blow up in the bad guy's chest.
@MrShysterme yup. people r like ginny pigs, they have no idea how things work. we left this technology of small handgun caliber with a bottlenecked case behind us over a hundred years ago. The laws of physics have not changed any and cartridge materials have changed little. why would this design all of a sudden work better?
This is a cool little video, unfortunately, the medium is completely inaccurate as a flesh simulant. its greater resistance and fiber strength ensures the rounds expel their energy sooner and deform/mushroom sooner. Don't get me wrong, it shows an accurate difference between the two rounds, but some people who know that the medium is bad will try to discredit the results. Too many people don't understand the 5.7 rounds, and will try to make it sound bad.
@Cadeyrnable For every "ballistics expert" that thinks the 5.7 is pathetic are a dozen other ballistics experts that have seen real comparative differences between the high end 5.7 ammo (not just cheap sporting ammo) and handgun rounds. Ballistic experts say that the 9mm is a pathetic preforming round too, but the higher end 5.7 ammo can meet or exceed .45 acp terminal results as well. Don't believe what one quack thinks based on one test he saw with the cheap target ammo. do your own research
@JathTech You'll forgive me if I laugh at you calling Dr Roberts a quack. He's a published, well respected expert on ballistics who has given presentations at military conferences. He's provided ample data from other published and well respected experts in terminal ballistics (including Fackler), as well as the testimonies of a SOF NCO who has used the MP-7 and a SWAT officer who has used the P90, both of whom were not impressed.
@Cadeyrnable You want a real debate and evidence, proof of what this round can really do with the right ammo, this is not the right place for it. go to the FNforum room about the fiveseven. (google fnforum, and go to the five seven room)
There you will see the errors of your ways: You're taking the opinion of one or two people who were using inferior target ammo and comparing it to quality defensive ammo of a standard caliber. You want to see what the round can really do, come over here.
All of you people claiming that the 5-7 can penetrate body armor are forgetting one important detail. The AP ammo for the 5-7 is restricted to military/LE. Meaning that the SS195 and SS197 ammo that is available to the public CANNOT penetrate body armor. If you want a handgun that can penetrate body armor then get an old TT-33 that fires the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round. Normal FMJ Tokarev rounds will penetrate PASGT helmets and Level II vests.
I think people need to stop thinking about how awesome AP rounds are and start thinking about how bad a situation you would have to be in to actually shoot someone wearing body armor.
@dastevenater I can take some one down who isn't wearing body armor with both of these rounds. I can only take a person down, who is wearing body armor, with the 5.7. most body armor nowadays is even adequate to stop a big 45acp round. Criminals are becoming smarter, and unless you can predict the future, I'd rather not take the chance going against someone who could have body armor and see dust from the bullets bouncing off of him. Look at the North Hollywood shootout.
@dastevenater You can get old police armor from ebay for less that $200. Ceramic plates for less that 1k. I have body armor and I am a nobody, you really think a professional criminal will not have the brains to spend a fraction of this drug money on good guns and armor?
you really need to test the rounds you are using with Elite Ammos Trident rounds ( which are pre-fragmented as well as the S4 Ultraraptor rounds. Pretty much ALL of Elites' ammo will outperform the FN SS190 rounds which "we" can't get anymore. Look at their civilian data sheet if you wanna see the devastation of Elites Ammo The Trident PFP rounds will defeat Level 2 body armor and still penetrate 11 inches of ballistic gel. Everyone loves to knock the 5.7 ( UNTIL THEY USE ELITE'S AMMO! )
all that proves is the 5.7 has overtravel with we all know is not good,,you want to keep the bullet or fragments in the thing shit,not go right through and hit something you dont want on the other side!,,its just a NOVELTY ROUND!!.thats why no one elce has made another pistol in that inferior calibur
The Five-Seven won't defeat body armor with the civlilian available FNh ammo (SS195lf or SS197sr) You would have to buy hotter ammo from Elite ammo or get ahold of the police/military restricted ammo.
@zizzy60 the projectile is made to turn 90 degrees immediately after impact. Therefore it causes much more damage to anything it hits, including body armor. Thats why this gun has the nickname "The cop killer".
My Asian friend from Hong Kong commented that the US is a wonderful country where un-trained CIVILIANS can buy guns that can defeat police body armour, and are called "cop killers".
As a retired cop who also serves in SWAT, my personal defense gun is a simple Glock 17 9mm. I've seen lots of shooting cases in my 23yrs, and I can guarantee you one thing. Caliber is not critical. VITAL ORGAN TARGETING is king.
Strong men went down with just 1 hit from a .22 and died within 5mins. Yrs ago, there was this guy shot 4times with 45BTalons, and he was still running, only to be brought down with a 12ga from my partner.
In real life, mag capacity is more important than caliber
No, I didn't, with the current powder charges and bullet types from the FNH-USA plant, the 5.7x28mm round is NOT armor piercing. That isn't just from me, that's from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives.
If you would want AP, go to the black market or look up some third party ammunition makers.
My chosen round is the SS195LF. It has the same ballistics and velocity as the discontinued SS192. Look it up.
You also pay a lot of extra money for that penetration when, practically speaking, the 9mm probably would have done the same job. Assuming the target isn't armored, at least.
I'd like to try a 5.7, maybe sometime after they become more commonplace and they are cheaper. Not that this will surely happen soon (or ever.) My range has a five seven for rent but it's chambered in 9mm.
If you really think about it, in a situation where you have to rely on stopping power, say a crackhead charging you, you're gonna be dumping bullets into him any ways regardless of your caliber or capacity. You sure as fuck don't want to be plinking him with .22's but anything stronger than that is fair game really. Land some in the center of mass or the face and chances are he's not gonna make it, hell I'd let him get me the best he could after he's wearing my clip in his chest.
The FN 5.7 is by far THE BEST PISTOL I have ever seen. And I do have one!
Once you fire this gun, you don't want any other handgun! EVER!!!
It was design to penetrate a NATO CRISAT target (20 layers of kevlar and a 1.6 mm titanium plate) . But that's not all! After three inches of penetration it starts to tumble, rotating sideways! The exit wound of the 5.7 is bigger than a 9mm
hollow point. Velocity is over 2,100 fps (twice the speed of any handgun) and the recoil is 30% less than any 9mm.
I saw all this bs of stopping power, Stopping power or not, there is a thing that happens with assult rifle bullets that is called hydrostatic shock which can fuck up vital organs and tissue even if you didnt mean to hit them. so all that energy can fuck someone up.
I've actually been hit by a brick before and it wasnt as bad, but I,ve sen people get shot and it fucks them up bad, but I was aiming for either a USP .45 or s&w 1911pd but after reviewing the specs for the FN 5.7, i think I swaying more on the FN, but I would like the opinion of the public if anyone likes to share. If I were to spen more, which would be the best choice, more bang for buck...
This isn't a very good test if you're trying to establish how effective 5.7 is against a human target versus 9mm, because unlike wet phone books people are very elastic inside and the same permanent cavities would not be formed, although the relative penetration is perhaps a valid demonstration.
I'm not sure how I feel about this round vs. the 9mm. It does have pretty impressive penetration, but it's such a tiny bullet in comparison. It just seems like a fully expanded 9mm would have a better chance of hitting something vital in a good center of mass hit.
@CHAINGUNMASSACRE i'm sure the point about his gun is that if you have it, you have more firepower than someone armed with a typical 9mm. you have 20 rounds that penetrate better and tumble and yaw. and the recoil is milder than 9mm, so you can be more accurate in rapid firing situations. it's kinda niche product i suppose. if you're stuck in a situation where you need an assault rifle, you'd be undergunned to say the least, but against most handguns, you have a bit more firepower.
First the 5.7 has proven it self in a Ballistics gel tests to be quite efficient for its size. They are designed to limit over penetration, and to tumble once they enter soft tissue according to the manufacturer and ballistics testing. Personally I think this is a great home defense round because of these factors and the lack of ricochet associated with them. Second the standard SS190 round can penetrate up to 40 layers of Kevlar or a Level III vest, and the accuracy and 20rnd mag is great too.
stopping power equals the mass of the round...the heavier the mass the slower the round...the slower the round the more energy dissapated quicker causing a bigger wound to follow...atleast in my head...even if your right its still psychological to most a bigger round equals more damage.
Very good video - nice to see a side by side test. 7 inches into wet phone books - ouch.
The Five Seven has much less recoil as well, so a 'double tap' with it is more likely to direct two shots closer to your exact target - and in a longer range encounter you will have a closer grouping at higher rates of fire. Love the 30 round mags. But geez is the system expensive.
I believe I read some where the five seven round was designed to penetrate body armor then expand and fragment once it hits soft dense tissue. There is ammo available for it, I know I read some where as well...that has almost the same effect as the old Black Talons...but its also subsonic.
@Sharingan221 Of course...and for good reasons...but not impossible...I have a whole case of SB193 ammo for the fiveseven. >;-) Armor Piercing Subsonic.
@Sharingan221 hehe...there's a class 3 dealer here in AZ about 10 min from my house...he has all sorts of goodies...in fact when you walk in the door...the main display is nothing but Belt/Box Fed Machine Guns and Grenade Launchers. There's even a section of only suppressed firearms...lol...MP5SD's (real ones, not those knock offs), a display case with just suppressors for all sorts of thread patterns and calibers, he even had three MP7's last time I was there...beautiful SMG's...place is sweet.
@xxevilgeniusxx whats it called? and where in arizona haha, might be taking a road trip down there, i really dont have a class 3 dealer here in nebraska, i can get good ammo like Ranger Talons Enhanced but i got to order them off line, if you get a chance look and see if they carry any HP versions of ranger talon is 9mm or .40
@Sharingan221 J&G Sales...they have a site...Prescott,AZ...and I know they have Winchester Ranger JHP in .40/10mm/9mm...50rnds for $25 or so...last time I was there. The 5.7 ammo I got...they ordered it for me from Arizona Gun Runners...an LE supply depot...(i'm in the CBP so I they could sell it to me) but the Ranger JHP civilians can buy that stuff. FYI their site doesn't have even a tenth of what they actually have in store...its like a 24/7/365 firearm extravaganza over there.
@xxevilgeniusxx dude that sounds amazing i really want to go there, im actually gonna check out there website, next time im in AZ visiting family im definitely gonna go there, isnt prescott where ruger makes their new SR line? the 9, 22, 556?
@Sharingan221 Just a bit more info...the New PDX1 Winchester Bonded JHP's are much more efficient HP's than the Rangers...since you can't get the "pointed" edge BT's any more...and all Talon rounds are rounded...the PDX1 is the best way to go...FULLY jacketed round edge talon JHP...best bang for your buck in my opinion...I use 124g PDX1 in my Beretta...unless im target shooting of course...then I have a few cases of 112g M882 Ball ammo...a few thousand rounds.
@xxevilgeniusxx I've read alot about PDX1, never carry it, and i got he LE version of the Rangers, so i got the blade edges on mine, i know its supposed to LE only but i know some guys who can get me some good stuff, and actually the PDX1 is a very good round both the 124gr jhp and 147 gr jhp are FBI approved and i think its the most highly tested JHP in history, exceeding the Speer Gold dot, i switch with the RTE's and Gold Dot, gotta love old school bonded GD
@xxevilgeniusxx how much did a few thousand rounds? i only have around 2000 124gr NATO rounds left i run them through my Sig, Glock, SR9, and M&P but thats honestly about it, i did look into getting more and im real "impressed" with how much some places cost for bulk loads (around 5000 rounds)
@Sharingan221 Best bet are firearm forums/classifieds and gun shows...I purchased 8 1000rnd green M882 boxes from a gun show at 50 bucks each...the 115g NATO is designed for handguns...the 124g +P NATO is designed for SMG's and will create quite a bit of over pressure in handguns. You can also get the NATO 147g Subsonic Ammo as well...usually in individual paper boxes...I have a few thousand of those too...I have an M9 and a AAC Evo 9 Suppressor. >:-)
@xxevilgeniusxx All my handguns are rated at +p loads so it can take the 124 gr just as good as an SMG will, i just dont shoot it though the Glock 26, but I've been looking for something like 5000-10000 rounds of 147 gr fmj for training, i already got a bunch of carry ammo including about 1500 rounds of GDHP 147gr and around 900 rounds or RTE
I woud be curious to see terminal ballistics against some other rounds like an AR 15 pistol Just for the hell of it. they are both .22 but he .223 is heavier and faster. But for the penetration thing from a handgun that may not matter much in that one instance.
The 13 soldiers killed at Fort Hood is evidence of how deadly this round is. If the shooter had used 9mm or 45acp there would have been fewer dead soldiers for sure. He had 31 rounds in a mag and all those unfortunate victims who had torso hits were killed. Extremity hits resulted in shattered bones in almost all cases.
Over 2000fps is scary fast with the latest ammo developments for this round. This is the future of pistols no doubts.
I have seen more than enough shot up corpses to tell you that you are clearly a call of duty wannabe. PS the humble .22 is still the deadliest round in the world with the most number of kills but I am sure it does not meet your standard for stopping power now does it?
@scubywrxr Try retired US Army douchebag. And yer .22 cal (any round you want) has been WAY overshadowed by the .30 which was used by most allied forces in WW1 and 2 and continues service as the 7.62 NATO . .22 cant come anywhere near the body count of the .30. If terminal ballistics or "stopping power" were unimportant then we wouldn't need the .50BMG
@TGLymantaiste Ahhh. Clearly based on your lame responses you from the Army. That also explains your fixation on stopping power. You probably carry a 45acp too right?
This video is on a pistol round if you haven't noticed, so talking about rifle calibers has little relevance here.
@scubywrxr And secondly How does your necrophilia relate to my expierience. I can tell since COD was the first thing you thougt of where your experience has come from. Have fun being eve more irrelevant that canada bitch.
@TGLymantaiste In your fantasy world of xbox they do. I am talking about men who died with honor.They gave their lives for our freedom what have you sacrificed for our nation?
@scubywrxr WelI am retired US Army. 20 ish years most of it as 11B. So not only have I seen plenty of dead bodies I have helped make a number of them. I havent scarificed anthing for your country (South Africa). I loved every minute of it and was sad to retire.
@TGLymantaiste Well the internet is a wonderful place to meet jerks like you hey. I am a good old USA citizen like you and I moved to SA after I got married here. Pity you still havent joined the global village.
@scubywrxr Fuck the gobal village. You dont believe in "Stopping power" and you are making fun of me? STFU You are the retard that said that the .22 was so amazing and had accounted for more deaths than anything. You didnt even name a cartridge, just a caliber. I dont care where you live. or what you are a citizen of. your ignorant ass probably goes aound on the web insulting people all of the time because you are too much of a bitch in person.
@TGLymantaiste If anyones been throwing insults its you. You the one who disagreed with my comment but rather than chose to reply intelligently you utilised your lowest common denominator single digit IQ and, with what your intellectual capacity would allow, hurled cusses.Clearly you need to go back for a session with your therapist for some respite from the PTSD. I suggest you ask for a script of clothiapine and vicodin too ;)
@scubywrxr I have taken a few hits over the years. Some of them contributing to my retirement. If you really are/were amedic tell the army that there are other drugs besides morphine and aspirin. I have mentioned it to them but they don't listen to 11b. (Infantry) later.
@scubywrxr Its funny how so many people on here can be helpful and informative and then there are those (like you ) who if some one says something that they dont agree with they turn into little bitches. Grow up and move out of your moms basement.
@TGLymantaiste Uhh, Like you have been anything but informative with your pathetic comparison of a 12 gauge shotgun and .50bmg to a pistol round? You must have helped the FBI select the 10mm too right? Clap hands everybody we got a real smart one here.
@scubywrxr Scubwrxr, the .22 doesnt have the most human casualties. its prob the 7.62 which the Kalashnikov weapons use. i say this because there are more of these types of weapons in service across the world then any other. My next guess would be the .30 bullet because these have been used sense the 1800's and is in a variety of weapons ranging from rifles to machine guns to the ever awesome Gatling gun.
@Aetherius74 There are 4 notable 7.62 cartridges (x39, x54, x53, x51), but I get what you mean.
I would feel safe saying that the 7.62x39 has killed more people than the 30-30 or any other "cowboy" round. It's just too widespread and weapons for it are too numerous for there to be any other outcome.
This new 5.7x28 is really something though, in my opinion it's going to be the death of 9mm (though by the time that happens there will be a better one out XD).
@ihaterobbie123 Far too expensive to push out the 9mm. Both weapons that fire it, and the ammunition make it little more than an expensive oddity for most civilians. The 9mm (and .40, and .45, etc), are significantly cheaper, have loooong track records of reliability, and are here to stay.
So called 'stopping power' is a myth, you either hit something vital or you don't.
A hit to the CNS will generally shut someone down the fastest but CNS hits are difficult. A hit to major vessels/organs is generally easier but it takes time for pressure/volume to be reduced enough to cause incapacitation.
@captainvirgilHilts Stopping power is not a myth. If you gut shoot someone with a 12ga slug they go down whether or not you hit a vital organ because of the MASSIVE impact energy. if you gut shoot someone with an M4 ( a fine weapon) they can continue to be combat effective for quite a while.
@captainvirgilHilts i dont fully agree with that, while in theary i kind of do but, i dont feel that stopping power is a complete myth while a shot from a 9mm to the gut (without a vital hit) will prolly not knock down or even give a well trained warrior much pause durring the fight, a .45 cal rnd is carrying much more energy with it & u are gonna feel that energy as it disapates thru ur body like shock waves from a bomb, so stopping power is deff a proven factor, to be continued
Whether or not you agree is irrelevant to the facts (right along with your feelings).
If 'stopping power' is a reality then give the quantitative means by which it measured.
If 'stopping power' has been proven then tell us by whom and by what means.
Lastly the 'shockwaves from a bomb' you mention is proven false by a basic understanding of Newtons three laws of motion in that the shooter will ALWAYS feel a force equal to (usually greater) than the person being shot.
@captainvirgilHilts stopping power is just a term to describe a firearm's ability to penetrate and cause ballistic injury to a target which is enough to incapacitate it....its the bullet's damaging effects on the target that it refers to
lol ur fucking retarded, stopping power is real. & by the way tell break down how the hell SHOCK WAVES FROM A FUCKING BOMB R PROVEN FALSE? BECAUSE THAT LITTLE SENTENCE FRAGMENT U WROTE UP THEIR DID NOTHING BUT MAKE U LOOK LIKE A MORON TRYING TO SOUND SMART. iF STOPPING POWER IS A MYTH\THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN ALL THE DIFFERENT FORMS AND MODELS OF BULLETS???wHY CARRY A .45 WHEN A .22 WILL WORK THE SAME????FUCKING MORONi( YEAH MY FEELINGS?LOL U GOTTA BE 1 OF THE DUMEST TROLLERS I HAVE SEEN)
@arkangel8419 and you gotta love being the idiot of ammo, im saying a properly designed hollow point, regardless of load is gonna perform all about the same, so go ahead and load up your worthless .45 i know my 9mm is gonna do just the same and congratulations on touting a 11x21 over a 9x19 dipshit
@arkangel8419 and when i say "exceed a .45" im talking about capacity compared to expansion and wound channel, you silly retard, my 19 round glock 17 compared to your what? 8 round .45? or wait nevermind 10 round wow... i have almost double the capacity and i will, without a doubt, have BETTER loadings than your shitty hydrashok trash
I don't think you understand newtons laws lol how can you think a shooter is gonna feel the same force as the target....not happening. Energy is never destroyed but can be focused in a direction with applied forces, it doesn't just spread out evenly everywhere how can you think that?
@captainvirgilHilts Then why in the Philippine American war were old .45s dug out of mothballs to replace the ineffective .38LC? BECAUSE of this make believe thing called stopping power. Why are going back to 45s over 9mm in the military? Because of that "myth" called stopping.
Despite how you FEEL you are wrong.
Following your logic there would be no purpose for HP over FMJ.
@captainvirgilHilts Stopping power is not a myth. Its measured in foot pounds delivered to the object. It is measured in every round you can buy. You, my friend, are wrong. You sound like you know what youre talking about but you are, once again, wrong.
@arkangel8419 actually if you look at wound channels and penetration the 9mm really isnt that far behind the .45 with the proper loading, and the energy is actually greater with a 9mm loading, depending on the loading of course, because of the increased velocity, even though in a carry round your not looking at velocity, higher grain weight and a bonded bullet, GDHP, PDX1, WRTB, CORBON DPX are all good carry options for 9mm, that will exceed a .45
@Sharingan221 THEY WILL EXEED THE .45 IN SPEED BUT WTF DOES THAT MEAN??? A .357 SIG WILL EXEED ALL OF THEM DOES IN SPEED DOES THAT MEAN THE .357 SIG RND IS THE ULTIMATE GOD RND???????? FUCK NO fps IS NEEDED BUT THEIR IS MUCH MORE THAT GOES INTO THAT FACTOR
@arkangel8419 i think stopping power is more of the speed of energy transfer from one bullet. The .45 has a huge amount of energy and slows down really fast, thus transferring all that energy quickly. A 9mm, or even 5.7 in this case travels deeper and retains it's kE for a longer time, energy transfer is decelerates over a longer period of time...
@captainvirgilHilts But i carry a 9mm just because I handle it better then i do a 40 or 45 and i would rather be able to double tap with confidence & accuracy during a battle then be able to fire one bigger shot accuratly followed by a few "with a pray shots"
@captainvirgilHilts While there is no measure of the "stopping power" of a round, i believe it is logical to assume that a round that will not penetrate through a human body will release more of it's kinetic into said body. A 5.7 Round that goes straight through someone may not release that much energy into the body itself. While a .45 that comes to rest in that body will release a great deal more energy. Of course this type of math eliminates the thought of location, tumble, cavity ricochet....
there is a measure of stopping power, due to the energy lost by a charged particle passing through a substance per unit length of path. You just explained it to yourself and you still don't understand stopping power?
@canoeshoe depends on your goal. A varmint round that fragments immediatly after impact can turn a head into red mist but wont penetrate armor. a ball round can penetrate armor but does less damage and does not fragment. Keeping in mind that anythng other than FMJ is forbiden by NATO I will take the bigger bullet when I can.
@Vanguard45 they use the P90 and an assortment of other weapons. THey also trail the president in a heavily armed under cover vehicle with weapons as big as stinger missiles.
@elitesack They do not have any missiles or anything like that. Nor do they have an undercover vehicle. Also, they have only a few weapons they, as an entire agency, ever use. They use the SIG P229, the Remington 870, the MP5, the P90, and M4s. Only specialized teams use the last two. Agents/ officers not on these teams tend to use the first three only. No missiles or any other extravagant weapons. You're watching too many movies.
@Vanguard45 you are wrong...patrol level officers are carrying M-16's/M-4's full auto. As long as they qualify with them they can be tweaked however they want...EOtech, lights...etc....including personal weapons
kinda wish u would have shot the book with all non expanding rounds. the fn is def going to penetrate deeper but i like finding ammo easily. just my opinion. fn yes pens deep but i like the 9 over it
But using 9mm FMJ would have simply shown the round passing through all the books and leaving a cavity much smaller than the JHP.
Overpenetration is a problem when using FMJ in SD/HD situations and this is where the 5.7x28 shines, it intentionally limits penetration in soft tissue thus reducing the chances of collateral damage.
This is one of the reasons USSS uses the P90 on presidential detail.
192/195 are HP's but are not designed to expand or fragment, it's simply an artifact of moving the projectiles CG aft in order to upset the projectile after impact.
OTOH 197 with it's poly-tip is designed to expand & fragment on impact.
How heavy are the bullets the 5.7 shoots (how many grains)? It would be nice to see what it does to ballistic gel or a melon or something like that. I really want one and i'm sure FNH knows what their doing when it comes weaponry. on top of that i dont think the secret service would use it if it was so ineffective, they are protecting the President.
i think their around 40 grains, but dont quote me on that im not positive, look it up on a website. ans i agree it is one of the best pistols out there.
Hmm... From everything I could find on the 5.7mm round, penetration seems very minimal. When shot into bare gelatin, it penetrated a mere 7" (similar to your results) and when shot into gel w/ a NIJ level II vest in front, it penetrated roughly 6". Also, when fired from the FN 5/7, rounds would keyhole on a paper target at 25yds. The GS 9mm round penetrates roughly 12-13in in bare gel w/ full expansion.
well teh thing is it isnt a pratical round for the every day shmo who will defend his house from unarmoured scum a mear hollow point well do fine. but for military and police wear the scum they worry about might have armour such as the scum from the north hollywood bank heist the 5.7 just eats right through most soft body armour and dose the job of a hollow point. so its like having a combination of a FMJ with the dmage of a FMH
As far as everyday carry for civillians, no it isnt a good round. Classic larger caliber pistol rounds are much better.
As far as military application goes, penetration through armor is one thing, but it also has to penetrate through the combatant... which is where is falls short. Its essentially a varmint pistol round and behaves the way a varmint round should.
I agree with Boombap420, it nice that it can penetrate that far but, what about stopping power? If it had great stopping power don't you think the military would use it instead of the 9mm?
lowcashflow 2 weeks ago
Gay music made me not watch
kguitar765 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i bet dr. gary roberts would still crap his pants if a pathetic 5.7 was pointed at his head
rjvanhecke 2 months ago
i bet dr. gary roberts would still shit his pants if a pathetic 5.7 was pointed at his head
rjvanhecke 2 months ago
Now shoot a FMJ 9 mm into it.
MrShysterme 3 months ago
@MrShysterme Exactly. 5-7 = intant faliur
boombap420 2 months ago
@boombap420 I hope people don't start wanting penetration in civilian defense guns. They'll be more people shooting through a wall and hurting their kids. The best are rounds that blow up in the bad guy's chest.
MrShysterme 2 months ago
@MrShysterme yup. people r like ginny pigs, they have no idea how things work. we left this technology of small handgun caliber with a bottlenecked case behind us over a hundred years ago. The laws of physics have not changed any and cartridge materials have changed little. why would this design all of a sudden work better?
boombap420 2 months ago
why is there music in this? cant you just talk about your findings? sick of this crap
jmosler9 3 months ago
How this debate sounds in my head: "Item A killed em, but item B really killed em."
WTF?!? A .22 can be effective if used properly.
xxxSinDieselxxx 3 months ago
This is a cool little video, unfortunately, the medium is completely inaccurate as a flesh simulant. its greater resistance and fiber strength ensures the rounds expel their energy sooner and deform/mushroom sooner. Don't get me wrong, it shows an accurate difference between the two rounds, but some people who know that the medium is bad will try to discredit the results. Too many people don't understand the 5.7 rounds, and will try to make it sound bad.
JathTech 5 months ago
@JathTech I'll argue the point. Doctor Gary Roberts, a ballistics expert, considers the 5.7 to have pathetic performance.
m4carbine . net / showthread . php?t = 19913
Cadeyrnable 4 months ago
@Cadeyrnable For every "ballistics expert" that thinks the 5.7 is pathetic are a dozen other ballistics experts that have seen real comparative differences between the high end 5.7 ammo (not just cheap sporting ammo) and handgun rounds. Ballistic experts say that the 9mm is a pathetic preforming round too, but the higher end 5.7 ammo can meet or exceed .45 acp terminal results as well. Don't believe what one quack thinks based on one test he saw with the cheap target ammo. do your own research
JathTech 4 months ago
@JathTech You'll forgive me if I laugh at you calling Dr Roberts a quack. He's a published, well respected expert on ballistics who has given presentations at military conferences. He's provided ample data from other published and well respected experts in terminal ballistics (including Fackler), as well as the testimonies of a SOF NCO who has used the MP-7 and a SWAT officer who has used the P90, both of whom were not impressed.
What evidence do you have?
Cadeyrnable 4 months ago
@Cadeyrnable You want a real debate and evidence, proof of what this round can really do with the right ammo, this is not the right place for it. go to the FNforum room about the fiveseven. (google fnforum, and go to the five seven room)
There you will see the errors of your ways: You're taking the opinion of one or two people who were using inferior target ammo and comparing it to quality defensive ammo of a standard caliber. You want to see what the round can really do, come over here.
JathTech 4 months ago
@Cadeyrnable the mp-7 does not fire the 5.7x28mm...you realize this right?
zooders 1 month ago
Plain White t´s - Your fault song
apappanda 7 months ago
Comment removed
apappanda 7 months ago
All of you people claiming that the 5-7 can penetrate body armor are forgetting one important detail. The AP ammo for the 5-7 is restricted to military/LE. Meaning that the SS195 and SS197 ammo that is available to the public CANNOT penetrate body armor. If you want a handgun that can penetrate body armor then get an old TT-33 that fires the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round. Normal FMJ Tokarev rounds will penetrate PASGT helmets and Level II vests.
drug 8 months ago
@drug Elite Ammo makes a loading for the FiveseveN that can be used for this. Basic ammo for the FiveseveN can easily pierce Level II threat vests.
AdmiralGST 6 months ago
@drug your argument is irrelevant there is still surplus
compound48mercs 5 months ago
@drug or buy fmj 10mm
zooders 1 month ago
5.7x28mm from FN FiveSeven Distroy Police Type II VEST like butter.
MafiaGENGTEAM1970 10 months ago
gayest song ever but the video was cool
BrendanG123 10 months ago
what is this song? please...
pakko333 11 months ago
@pakko333 It's by the Plain White T's but I don't know the name of the song.
rap1977 5 months ago
I couldn't take the music
fredneck4x4 11 months ago
I think people need to stop thinking about how awesome AP rounds are and start thinking about how bad a situation you would have to be in to actually shoot someone wearing body armor.
dastevenater 1 year ago
@dastevenater I can take some one down who isn't wearing body armor with both of these rounds. I can only take a person down, who is wearing body armor, with the 5.7. most body armor nowadays is even adequate to stop a big 45acp round. Criminals are becoming smarter, and unless you can predict the future, I'd rather not take the chance going against someone who could have body armor and see dust from the bullets bouncing off of him. Look at the North Hollywood shootout.
xBiGTxLPZx 1 year ago
@dastevenater You can get old police armor from ebay for less that $200. Ceramic plates for less that 1k. I have body armor and I am a nobody, you really think a professional criminal will not have the brains to spend a fraction of this drug money on good guns and armor?
hunkgod 8 months ago
you really need to test the rounds you are using with Elite Ammos Trident rounds ( which are pre-fragmented as well as the S4 Ultraraptor rounds. Pretty much ALL of Elites' ammo will outperform the FN SS190 rounds which "we" can't get anymore. Look at their civilian data sheet if you wanna see the devastation of Elites Ammo The Trident PFP rounds will defeat Level 2 body armor and still penetrate 11 inches of ballistic gel. Everyone loves to knock the 5.7 ( UNTIL THEY USE ELITE'S AMMO! )
joshuacrick 1 year ago
all that proves is the 5.7 has overtravel with we all know is not good,,you want to keep the bullet or fragments in the thing shit,not go right through and hit something you dont want on the other side!,,its just a NOVELTY ROUND!!.thats why no one elce has made another pistol in that inferior calibur
crambone219 1 year ago
@crambone219 The whole reason behind the 5.7 was to penetrate body ammor at close range, and thats all it is really good for.
mtwilliams89 1 year ago
The Five-Seven won't defeat body armor with the civlilian available FNh ammo (SS195lf or SS197sr) You would have to buy hotter ammo from Elite ammo or get ahold of the police/military restricted ammo.
suprapvb 1 year ago
@suprapvb I have ss192 ammo still 100 rounds
azrebels 1 year ago
My wife is an anasthesist who has assisted in thousands of bullet wound surgeries. She's a gun lover, just like me and my sons.
A Latino "stomach shot" case came in, and my ex-colleagues in the PD confirmed that the gun used was an FN57 owned by a lawyer.
The round penetrated the abdomen, created a "big fucking mess" (surgeon's words) and went through the vertebrae.
It's the 1st time my wife has seen her surgeon boss shaking his head when they saw the mangled internals. Just 1 shot.
zizzy60 1 year ago
@zizzy60 the projectile is made to turn 90 degrees immediately after impact. Therefore it causes much more damage to anything it hits, including body armor. Thats why this gun has the nickname "The cop killer".
corybently 1 year ago
@corybently
My Asian friend from Hong Kong commented that the US is a wonderful country where un-trained CIVILIANS can buy guns that can defeat police body armour, and are called "cop killers".
zizzy60 1 year ago
As a retired cop who also serves in SWAT, my personal defense gun is a simple Glock 17 9mm. I've seen lots of shooting cases in my 23yrs, and I can guarantee you one thing. Caliber is not critical. VITAL ORGAN TARGETING is king.
Strong men went down with just 1 hit from a .22 and died within 5mins. Yrs ago, there was this guy shot 4times with 45BTalons, and he was still running, only to be brought down with a 12ga from my partner.
In real life, mag capacity is more important than caliber
zizzy60 1 year ago
isn't this gun armor peircing with FMJ
weoponmakerpro 1 year ago
@weoponmakerpro
No, not with current civilian powder charges in the cartridge.
The people in the Brady Campaign continue to perpetrate this about the Five-seveN.
Mr. Brady himself was paralyzed not from a 9mm or a .45 cal.
But from a small, cheap .22LR.
Reynard13Fuchs 1 year ago
@Reynard13Fuchs what is you you did some hand loads
weoponmakerpro 1 year ago
@weoponmakerpro
No, I didn't, with the current powder charges and bullet types from the FNH-USA plant, the 5.7x28mm round is NOT armor piercing. That isn't just from me, that's from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms and Explosives.
If you would want AP, go to the black market or look up some third party ammunition makers.
My chosen round is the SS195LF. It has the same ballistics and velocity as the discontinued SS192. Look it up.
Reynard13Fuchs 1 year ago
@weoponmakerpro no
JayVarrio 1 year ago
Don't you feel that no one agrees to what you say ?!
masterco93 1 year ago
You also pay a lot of extra money for that penetration when, practically speaking, the 9mm probably would have done the same job. Assuming the target isn't armored, at least.
I'd like to try a 5.7, maybe sometime after they become more commonplace and they are cheaper. Not that this will surely happen soon (or ever.) My range has a five seven for rent but it's chambered in 9mm.
Makingnewnamesisdumb 1 year ago
I love her. I think she's the future of pop music and an inspiration to a lot of people including me. ;D - Naked Lady Gaga. C000M -
Guenna1084 1 year ago
If you really think about it, in a situation where you have to rely on stopping power, say a crackhead charging you, you're gonna be dumping bullets into him any ways regardless of your caliber or capacity. You sure as fuck don't want to be plinking him with .22's but anything stronger than that is fair game really. Land some in the center of mass or the face and chances are he's not gonna make it, hell I'd let him get me the best he could after he's wearing my clip in his chest.
NMoulana 1 year ago
A bullet is just a bullet.
Migs4000 1 year ago
@Migs4000
carpati1 1 year ago
@Migs4000 In that case why don't you just buy a musket?
It only weights about 8 pounds! And the velocity is good: about 1,400fps!
You got yourself a portable cannon!
carpati1 1 year ago
@carpati1
lol :P
Migs4000 1 year ago
The FN 5.7 is by far THE BEST PISTOL I have ever seen. And I do have one!
Once you fire this gun, you don't want any other handgun! EVER!!!
It was design to penetrate a NATO CRISAT target (20 layers of kevlar and a 1.6 mm titanium plate) . But that's not all! After three inches of penetration it starts to tumble, rotating sideways! The exit wound of the 5.7 is bigger than a 9mm
hollow point. Velocity is over 2,100 fps (twice the speed of any handgun) and the recoil is 30% less than any 9mm.
carpati1 1 year ago
I saw all this bs of stopping power, Stopping power or not, there is a thing that happens with assult rifle bullets that is called hydrostatic shock which can fuck up vital organs and tissue even if you didnt mean to hit them. so all that energy can fuck someone up.
Jesus1229 1 year ago
@Jesus1229
You are right about assault rifles! You know why? Because their high velocity!
Same thing with this gun. Over 2,200 fps? Twice the velocity of any handgun ever
made! What you prefer to be hit with: a 5 pounds brick @ 2fps or a 5.7 bullet @
2,200fps? Your choice!
carpati1 1 year ago
I've actually been hit by a brick before and it wasnt as bad, but I,ve sen people get shot and it fucks them up bad, but I was aiming for either a USP .45 or s&w 1911pd but after reviewing the specs for the FN 5.7, i think I swaying more on the FN, but I would like the opinion of the public if anyone likes to share. If I were to spen more, which would be the best choice, more bang for buck...
Jesus1229 1 year ago
@carpati1 brick!
JayVarrio 1 year ago
This isn't a very good test if you're trying to establish how effective 5.7 is against a human target versus 9mm, because unlike wet phone books people are very elastic inside and the same permanent cavities would not be formed, although the relative penetration is perhaps a valid demonstration.
usdmsw21 1 year ago
I'm not sure how I feel about this round vs. the 9mm. It does have pretty impressive penetration, but it's such a tiny bullet in comparison. It just seems like a fully expanded 9mm would have a better chance of hitting something vital in a good center of mass hit.
CHAINGUNMASSACRE 1 year ago
@CHAINGUNMASSACRE i'm sure the point about his gun is that if you have it, you have more firepower than someone armed with a typical 9mm. you have 20 rounds that penetrate better and tumble and yaw. and the recoil is milder than 9mm, so you can be more accurate in rapid firing situations. it's kinda niche product i suppose. if you're stuck in a situation where you need an assault rifle, you'd be undergunned to say the least, but against most handguns, you have a bit more firepower.
bluemonolith88 1 year ago
This is a good video, I'm glad you pointed out the details through the different layers of the phone books. Very interesting. :-)
pleaofashatteredsoul 1 year ago
First the 5.7 has proven it self in a Ballistics gel tests to be quite efficient for its size. They are designed to limit over penetration, and to tumble once they enter soft tissue according to the manufacturer and ballistics testing. Personally I think this is a great home defense round because of these factors and the lack of ricochet associated with them. Second the standard SS190 round can penetrate up to 40 layers of Kevlar or a Level III vest, and the accuracy and 20rnd mag is great too.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
gay music, no body thinks its cool, sounds like a pussy little bitch
alexanderMP 1 year ago
stopping power equals the mass of the round...the heavier the mass the slower the round...the slower the round the more energy dissapated quicker causing a bigger wound to follow...atleast in my head...even if your right its still psychological to most a bigger round equals more damage.
SolarEmp1re 1 year ago
Very good video - nice to see a side by side test. 7 inches into wet phone books - ouch.
The Five Seven has much less recoil as well, so a 'double tap' with it is more likely to direct two shots closer to your exact target - and in a longer range encounter you will have a closer grouping at higher rates of fire. Love the 30 round mags. But geez is the system expensive.
FreeAgain2 1 year ago
I believe I read some where the five seven round was designed to penetrate body armor then expand and fragment once it hits soft dense tissue. There is ammo available for it, I know I read some where as well...that has almost the same effect as the old Black Talons...but its also subsonic.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx most of that ammo is actually restricted to LE/MIL due to its armor piercing nature
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 Of course...and for good reasons...but not impossible...I have a whole case of SB193 ammo for the fiveseven. >;-) Armor Piercing Subsonic.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx very nice dude i envy you
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 hehe...there's a class 3 dealer here in AZ about 10 min from my house...he has all sorts of goodies...in fact when you walk in the door...the main display is nothing but Belt/Box Fed Machine Guns and Grenade Launchers. There's even a section of only suppressed firearms...lol...MP5SD's (real ones, not those knock offs), a display case with just suppressors for all sorts of thread patterns and calibers, he even had three MP7's last time I was there...beautiful SMG's...place is sweet.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx whats it called? and where in arizona haha, might be taking a road trip down there, i really dont have a class 3 dealer here in nebraska, i can get good ammo like Ranger Talons Enhanced but i got to order them off line, if you get a chance look and see if they carry any HP versions of ranger talon is 9mm or .40
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 J&G Sales...they have a site...Prescott,AZ...and I know they have Winchester Ranger JHP in .40/10mm/9mm...50rnds for $25 or so...last time I was there. The 5.7 ammo I got...they ordered it for me from Arizona Gun Runners...an LE supply depot...(i'm in the CBP so I they could sell it to me) but the Ranger JHP civilians can buy that stuff. FYI their site doesn't have even a tenth of what they actually have in store...its like a 24/7/365 firearm extravaganza over there.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx dude that sounds amazing i really want to go there, im actually gonna check out there website, next time im in AZ visiting family im definitely gonna go there, isnt prescott where ruger makes their new SR line? the 9, 22, 556?
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 Just a bit more info...the New PDX1 Winchester Bonded JHP's are much more efficient HP's than the Rangers...since you can't get the "pointed" edge BT's any more...and all Talon rounds are rounded...the PDX1 is the best way to go...FULLY jacketed round edge talon JHP...best bang for your buck in my opinion...I use 124g PDX1 in my Beretta...unless im target shooting of course...then I have a few cases of 112g M882 Ball ammo...a few thousand rounds.
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx I've read alot about PDX1, never carry it, and i got he LE version of the Rangers, so i got the blade edges on mine, i know its supposed to LE only but i know some guys who can get me some good stuff, and actually the PDX1 is a very good round both the 124gr jhp and 147 gr jhp are FBI approved and i think its the most highly tested JHP in history, exceeding the Speer Gold dot, i switch with the RTE's and Gold Dot, gotta love old school bonded GD
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx how much did a few thousand rounds? i only have around 2000 124gr NATO rounds left i run them through my Sig, Glock, SR9, and M&P but thats honestly about it, i did look into getting more and im real "impressed" with how much some places cost for bulk loads (around 5000 rounds)
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 Best bet are firearm forums/classifieds and gun shows...I purchased 8 1000rnd green M882 boxes from a gun show at 50 bucks each...the 115g NATO is designed for handguns...the 124g +P NATO is designed for SMG's and will create quite a bit of over pressure in handguns. You can also get the NATO 147g Subsonic Ammo as well...usually in individual paper boxes...I have a few thousand of those too...I have an M9 and a AAC Evo 9 Suppressor. >:-)
xxevilgeniusxx 1 year ago
@xxevilgeniusxx All my handguns are rated at +p loads so it can take the 124 gr just as good as an SMG will, i just dont shoot it though the Glock 26, but I've been looking for something like 5000-10000 rounds of 147 gr fmj for training, i already got a bunch of carry ammo including about 1500 rounds of GDHP 147gr and around 900 rounds or RTE
Sharingan221 1 year ago
where can i get some ss195 ammo?
Reapers261 1 year ago
I ve heard of a 9mm armor piercing round and if its true then fire that and compare it to the ss190 round
then lets see what stacks up better
Nexgcs 1 year ago
Have you tried this thing on prarie dogs yet?
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
I woud betthat if youloded this hing up with Hornadys 35 grn vmax and pushed it hard you would have one hell of a varmint hunting pistol.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
I woud be curious to see terminal ballistics against some other rounds like an AR 15 pistol Just for the hell of it. they are both .22 but he .223 is heavier and faster. But for the penetration thing from a handgun that may not matter much in that one instance.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
I just got through running ballistics and what FN has done is invent a rimless .22 Hornet. thats cool. I want one for short range varmint hunting.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
The 13 soldiers killed at Fort Hood is evidence of how deadly this round is. If the shooter had used 9mm or 45acp there would have been fewer dead soldiers for sure. He had 31 rounds in a mag and all those unfortunate victims who had torso hits were killed. Extremity hits resulted in shattered bones in almost all cases.
Over 2000fps is scary fast with the latest ammo developments for this round. This is the future of pistols no doubts.
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr scarier thing is that they can put that round into a 50 round mag on an automatic submachine gun
Aetherius74 1 year ago
@Aetherius74
Put this round in an MP5 and I feel sorry for those fools facing counterterrorist operatives doing their job ;)
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr I don't XD
Aetherius74 1 year ago
@scubywrxr I didnt see you there. Where exactly where you standing when it happened.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste
Above you
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr So you really don't know WTF you are talking about.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste
I have seen more than enough shot up corpses to tell you that you are clearly a call of duty wannabe. PS the humble .22 is still the deadliest round in the world with the most number of kills but I am sure it does not meet your standard for stopping power now does it?
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr Try retired US Army douchebag. And yer .22 cal (any round you want) has been WAY overshadowed by the .30 which was used by most allied forces in WW1 and 2 and continues service as the 7.62 NATO . .22 cant come anywhere near the body count of the .30. If terminal ballistics or "stopping power" were unimportant then we wouldn't need the .50BMG
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste Ahhh. Clearly based on your lame responses you from the Army. That also explains your fixation on stopping power. You probably carry a 45acp too right?
This video is on a pistol round if you haven't noticed, so talking about rifle calibers has little relevance here.
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr And secondly How does your necrophilia relate to my expierience. I can tell since COD was the first thing you thougt of where your experience has come from. Have fun being eve more irrelevant that canada bitch.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste Show some respect for our fallen countrymen before your PTSD kicks in again vet
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr Video Game corpses dont count ass hat.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste In your fantasy world of xbox they do. I am talking about men who died with honor.They gave their lives for our freedom what have you sacrificed for our nation?
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr WelI am retired US Army. 20 ish years most of it as 11B. So not only have I seen plenty of dead bodies I have helped make a number of them. I havent scarificed anthing for your country (South Africa). I loved every minute of it and was sad to retire.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste Well the internet is a wonderful place to meet jerks like you hey. I am a good old USA citizen like you and I moved to SA after I got married here. Pity you still havent joined the global village.
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr Fuck the gobal village. You dont believe in "Stopping power" and you are making fun of me? STFU You are the retard that said that the .22 was so amazing and had accounted for more deaths than anything. You didnt even name a cartridge, just a caliber. I dont care where you live. or what you are a citizen of. your ignorant ass probably goes aound on the web insulting people all of the time because you are too much of a bitch in person.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste If anyones been throwing insults its you. You the one who disagreed with my comment but rather than chose to reply intelligently you utilised your lowest common denominator single digit IQ and, with what your intellectual capacity would allow, hurled cusses.Clearly you need to go back for a session with your therapist for some respite from the PTSD. I suggest you ask for a script of clothiapine and vicodin too ;)
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr This is where you started it "I have seen more than enough shot up corpses to tell you that you are clearly a call of duty wannabe"
Look me up if your Bitch ass ever gets to AZ We will get some coffee.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste Fine. Truce. I am gonna take you up on that coffee though lol.
P.S. You must have figured that I am a mil medic by now. If you wear a purple heart I take back all that I said btw
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr I have taken a few hits over the years. Some of them contributing to my retirement. If you really are/were amedic tell the army that there are other drugs besides morphine and aspirin. I have mentioned it to them but they don't listen to 11b. (Infantry) later.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@scubywrxr Its funny how so many people on here can be helpful and informative and then there are those (like you ) who if some one says something that they dont agree with they turn into little bitches. Grow up and move out of your moms basement.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@TGLymantaiste Uhh, Like you have been anything but informative with your pathetic comparison of a 12 gauge shotgun and .50bmg to a pistol round? You must have helped the FBI select the 10mm too right? Clap hands everybody we got a real smart one here.
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@scubywrxr Scubwrxr, the .22 doesnt have the most human casualties. its prob the 7.62 which the Kalashnikov weapons use. i say this because there are more of these types of weapons in service across the world then any other. My next guess would be the .30 bullet because these have been used sense the 1800's and is in a variety of weapons ranging from rifles to machine guns to the ever awesome Gatling gun.
Aetherius74 1 year ago
@Aetherius74 There are 4 notable 7.62 cartridges (x39, x54, x53, x51), but I get what you mean.
I would feel safe saying that the 7.62x39 has killed more people than the 30-30 or any other "cowboy" round. It's just too widespread and weapons for it are too numerous for there to be any other outcome.
This new 5.7x28 is really something though, in my opinion it's going to be the death of 9mm (though by the time that happens there will be a better one out XD).
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
@ihaterobbie123 Far too expensive to push out the 9mm. Both weapons that fire it, and the ammunition make it little more than an expensive oddity for most civilians. The 9mm (and .40, and .45, etc), are significantly cheaper, have loooong track records of reliability, and are here to stay.
koeryn 1 year ago
@koeryn Cost changes with availability, once it becomes as common as 9mm it'll be considerably cheaper.
What you're saying is exactly what people have been saying for centuries, just because a cartridge is widely used doesn't mean it will be forever.
Anyway if you read my comment you'd see I'm saying by the time the 9mm is phased out there will be something phasing out the 5.7x28.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
The five-seven shooting the 27 grain SS195 is clearly the winner hear. Astonishing.
The designers at FN are geniuses.
wnorcott 1 year ago
dont you want quick expansion to have some stopping power? or a bullet that goes through?
canoeshoe 1 year ago
So called 'stopping power' is a myth, you either hit something vital or you don't.
A hit to the CNS will generally shut someone down the fastest but CNS hits are difficult. A hit to major vessels/organs is generally easier but it takes time for pressure/volume to be reduced enough to cause incapacitation.
captainvirgilHilts 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts well said. I hate when people talk about "stopping power"
NIKON777 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts Stopping power is not a myth. If you gut shoot someone with a 12ga slug they go down whether or not you hit a vital organ because of the MASSIVE impact energy. if you gut shoot someone with an M4 ( a fine weapon) they can continue to be combat effective for quite a while.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts
+1 but remember that in high velocity wounds the shock wave and temporary cavitation tears arteries and organs that are not directly hit ;)
scubywrxr 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts Why not simply go for a double tap to the head?
teddybearhunter 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts i dont fully agree with that, while in theary i kind of do but, i dont feel that stopping power is a complete myth while a shot from a 9mm to the gut (without a vital hit) will prolly not knock down or even give a well trained warrior much pause durring the fight, a .45 cal rnd is carrying much more energy with it & u are gonna feel that energy as it disapates thru ur body like shock waves from a bomb, so stopping power is deff a proven factor, to be continued
arkangel8419 1 year ago
@arkangel8419
Whether or not you agree is irrelevant to the facts (right along with your feelings).
If 'stopping power' is a reality then give the quantitative means by which it measured.
If 'stopping power' has been proven then tell us by whom and by what means.
Lastly the 'shockwaves from a bomb' you mention is proven false by a basic understanding of Newtons three laws of motion in that the shooter will ALWAYS feel a force equal to (usually greater) than the person being shot.
captainvirgilHilts 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts stopping power is just a term to describe a firearm's ability to penetrate and cause ballistic injury to a target which is enough to incapacitate it....its the bullet's damaging effects on the target that it refers to
PhoenixEdwards 1 year ago
lol ur fucking retarded, stopping power is real. & by the way tell break down how the hell SHOCK WAVES FROM A FUCKING BOMB R PROVEN FALSE? BECAUSE THAT LITTLE SENTENCE FRAGMENT U WROTE UP THEIR DID NOTHING BUT MAKE U LOOK LIKE A MORON TRYING TO SOUND SMART. iF STOPPING POWER IS A MYTH\THEN WHAT IS THE POINT IN ALL THE DIFFERENT FORMS AND MODELS OF BULLETS???wHY CARRY A .45 WHEN A .22 WILL WORK THE SAME????FUCKING MORONi( YEAH MY FEELINGS?LOL U GOTTA BE 1 OF THE DUMEST TROLLERS I HAVE SEEN)
arkangel8419 1 year ago
@arkangel8419 and you gotta love being the idiot of ammo, im saying a properly designed hollow point, regardless of load is gonna perform all about the same, so go ahead and load up your worthless .45 i know my 9mm is gonna do just the same and congratulations on touting a 11x21 over a 9x19 dipshit
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@arkangel8419 and when i say "exceed a .45" im talking about capacity compared to expansion and wound channel, you silly retard, my 19 round glock 17 compared to your what? 8 round .45? or wait nevermind 10 round wow... i have almost double the capacity and i will, without a doubt, have BETTER loadings than your shitty hydrashok trash
Sharingan221 1 year ago
I don't think you understand newtons laws lol how can you think a shooter is gonna feel the same force as the target....not happening. Energy is never destroyed but can be focused in a direction with applied forces, it doesn't just spread out evenly everywhere how can you think that?
Franswaa420 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts Then why in the Philippine American war were old .45s dug out of mothballs to replace the ineffective .38LC? BECAUSE of this make believe thing called stopping power. Why are going back to 45s over 9mm in the military? Because of that "myth" called stopping.
Despite how you FEEL you are wrong.
Following your logic there would be no purpose for HP over FMJ.
SAR0311 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts Stopping power is not a myth. Its measured in foot pounds delivered to the object. It is measured in every round you can buy. You, my friend, are wrong. You sound like you know what youre talking about but you are, once again, wrong.
corybently 1 year ago
@arkangel8419 actually if you look at wound channels and penetration the 9mm really isnt that far behind the .45 with the proper loading, and the energy is actually greater with a 9mm loading, depending on the loading of course, because of the increased velocity, even though in a carry round your not looking at velocity, higher grain weight and a bonded bullet, GDHP, PDX1, WRTB, CORBON DPX are all good carry options for 9mm, that will exceed a .45
Sharingan221 1 year ago
@Sharingan221 THEY WILL EXEED THE .45 IN SPEED BUT WTF DOES THAT MEAN??? A .357 SIG WILL EXEED ALL OF THEM DOES IN SPEED DOES THAT MEAN THE .357 SIG RND IS THE ULTIMATE GOD RND???????? FUCK NO fps IS NEEDED BUT THEIR IS MUCH MORE THAT GOES INTO THAT FACTOR
arkangel8419 1 year ago
@arkangel8419 i think stopping power is more of the speed of energy transfer from one bullet. The .45 has a huge amount of energy and slows down really fast, thus transferring all that energy quickly. A 9mm, or even 5.7 in this case travels deeper and retains it's kE for a longer time, energy transfer is decelerates over a longer period of time...
TomsGuns 1 year ago
Yes i agree you could call it stopping power, speed of energy transfer, or energy loss of charged partical passing thru a substance!
Franswaa420 1 year ago
@arkangel8419 When you talk about stopping power, what are you referring to?
Speed is the key element here!
Yes, the mass is smaller but the speed is tremendous!
Almost twice to any handgun bullet I have ever seen!
carpati1 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts But i carry a 9mm just because I handle it better then i do a 40 or 45 and i would rather be able to double tap with confidence & accuracy during a battle then be able to fire one bigger shot accuratly followed by a few "with a pray shots"
arkangel8419 1 year ago
@captainvirgilHilts While there is no measure of the "stopping power" of a round, i believe it is logical to assume that a round that will not penetrate through a human body will release more of it's kinetic into said body. A 5.7 Round that goes straight through someone may not release that much energy into the body itself. While a .45 that comes to rest in that body will release a great deal more energy. Of course this type of math eliminates the thought of location, tumble, cavity ricochet....
trench05 1 year ago
there is a measure of stopping power, due to the energy lost by a charged particle passing through a substance per unit length of path. You just explained it to yourself and you still don't understand stopping power?
Franswaa420 1 year ago
@canoeshoe depends on your goal. A varmint round that fragments immediatly after impact can turn a head into red mist but wont penetrate armor. a ball round can penetrate armor but does less damage and does not fragment. Keeping in mind that anythng other than FMJ is forbiden by NATO I will take the bigger bullet when I can.
TGLymantaiste 1 year ago
haha u pwn u im gettin a five seven, and if u think ammo is hard to buy, go get like 1000 rounds at cabelas, they give u a dry box to
janson540 2 years ago
captainvirgilHilts,
What are you saying the USSS uses? Are they using the 5.7 pistol or the P90 or both?
Vanguard45 2 years ago
"This is one of the reasons USSS uses the P90 on presidential detail. "
captainvirgilHilts 2 years ago
@captainvirgilHilts No one on the detail uses the P90.
Vanguard45 11 months ago
@Vanguard45 they use the P90 and an assortment of other weapons. THey also trail the president in a heavily armed under cover vehicle with weapons as big as stinger missiles.
elitesack 1 year ago
@elitesack watch?v=7Nug5FZgxuk
hamguy01 1 year ago
@elitesack They do not have any missiles or anything like that. Nor do they have an undercover vehicle. Also, they have only a few weapons they, as an entire agency, ever use. They use the SIG P229, the Remington 870, the MP5, the P90, and M4s. Only specialized teams use the last two. Agents/ officers not on these teams tend to use the first three only. No missiles or any other extravagant weapons. You're watching too many movies.
Vanguard45 11 months ago
@Vanguard45 you are wrong...patrol level officers are carrying M-16's/M-4's full auto. As long as they qualify with them they can be tweaked however they want...EOtech, lights...etc....including personal weapons
liljepj 9 months ago
SS195 is 27 gr.
SS197 is 40 gr.
1,600 rounds through my 5.7 and my Glock 19 and Sig 226 are history. FN 5.7 is the pistol of the future.
Doubt my logic? FN has a 100 year history of developing cartridge driven weapons and changing minds of decision makers like the DOD and NATO.
FN developed the 7.62 round in the 1950's and shortly thereafter the 7.62 round was adopted as the standard for light machine gun use.
FN knows a replacement 9mm replacement round is long overdue.
Good video!
srbrmc 2 years ago
@srbrmc Good points.
NIKON777 1 year ago
kinda wish u would have shot the book with all non expanding rounds. the fn is def going to penetrate deeper but i like finding ammo easily. just my opinion. fn yes pens deep but i like the 9 over it
wo0dzm3n 2 years ago
The selections were what I had on hand.
But using 9mm FMJ would have simply shown the round passing through all the books and leaving a cavity much smaller than the JHP.
Overpenetration is a problem when using FMJ in SD/HD situations and this is where the 5.7x28 shines, it intentionally limits penetration in soft tissue thus reducing the chances of collateral damage.
This is one of the reasons USSS uses the P90 on presidential detail.
captainvirgilHilts 2 years ago
@captainvirgilHilts Excellent.
NIKON777 1 year ago
personally i would like a 5.7 either the pistol or the civ version of a p90 the only thing is, is they are expensive
celticrune78 2 years ago
can you buy hollow points in that caliber?
elitemarine55 2 years ago
Yeah they have hollowbpoints
alpha9mm 2 years ago
You go to the store or online and buy them
TheDukeofWellingtons 2 years ago
192/195 are HP's but are not designed to expand or fragment, it's simply an artifact of moving the projectiles CG aft in order to upset the projectile after impact.
OTOH 197 with it's poly-tip is designed to expand & fragment on impact.
captainvirgilHilts 2 years ago
How heavy are the bullets the 5.7 shoots (how many grains)? It would be nice to see what it does to ballistic gel or a melon or something like that. I really want one and i'm sure FNH knows what their doing when it comes weaponry. on top of that i dont think the secret service would use it if it was so ineffective, they are protecting the President.
Reapers261 2 years ago
i think their around 40 grains, but dont quote me on that im not positive, look it up on a website. ans i agree it is one of the best pistols out there.
theycallmet1m 2 years ago
what happens if you want to order up a pizza now??
bitcheznhos 2 years ago
Why would anyone disparage someone else's choice of a weapon? Shoot whatever you're comfortable with.
It's supposed to be us against the bad guys, not 5.7 shooters against whomever.
jsmaye 2 years ago
Hmm... From everything I could find on the 5.7mm round, penetration seems very minimal. When shot into bare gelatin, it penetrated a mere 7" (similar to your results) and when shot into gel w/ a NIJ level II vest in front, it penetrated roughly 6". Also, when fired from the FN 5/7, rounds would keyhole on a paper target at 25yds. The GS 9mm round penetrates roughly 12-13in in bare gel w/ full expansion.
I dont trust the "wet paper" tests.
It just doesnt seem like a practical round to me.
northernpatriot54 2 years ago
Hmmmm.... your wrong.
robzombay72 2 years ago
Care to tell what Im wrong about and why?
northernpatriot54 2 years ago
well teh thing is it isnt a pratical round for the every day shmo who will defend his house from unarmoured scum a mear hollow point well do fine. but for military and police wear the scum they worry about might have armour such as the scum from the north hollywood bank heist the 5.7 just eats right through most soft body armour and dose the job of a hollow point. so its like having a combination of a FMJ with the dmage of a FMH
Shaggy2dope90 2 years ago
As far as everyday carry for civillians, no it isnt a good round. Classic larger caliber pistol rounds are much better.
As far as military application goes, penetration through armor is one thing, but it also has to penetrate through the combatant... which is where is falls short. Its essentially a varmint pistol round and behaves the way a varmint round should.
Even as a military rounds its quite impractical.
northernpatriot54 2 years ago
Right, but what about if I'm aiming at my attacker's face?
CRU9ES 2 years ago
Even a .22lr to an attacker's face will kill him. Current issue weapons adequate.
northernpatriot54 2 years ago
Good so dont buy it. But i Did :D :) ;P
mistabiggz16 2 years ago