I have only one question in Judgement day when He will judge all human kind before his throne wont He know already what each and every one of us will do or have done until that very day?Then why bother create us and then judge us since he already knows that some of us will end up either in heaven or hell.
Well, then I believe that there is no reason to continue this discussion, because what I would say would pretty much be a repetition of what is already said in the video. I am pretty sure that nothing useful will come out of this.
You are going in circles and now you are back at the original argument.
If you listen to the argument in this video then you will see that it does not necessarily follow from the existence of evil, caused by humanity or not, that God is either malevolent or non-existent.
I can see and must admit that this part of the video might not be so well formulated. First of all this statement comes after the argument itself and is not directed at the problem of evil itself.
Second, what I mean is that if God had to remove evil we would be included amongst all other evils, because we certainly do evil. I do not mean that humans are the ultimate source of evil.
I mean that God chooses not to remove evil because he wishes to give us, doers of evil, another chance.
If you can only rely on science or empirical evidence you would have a hard time to prove certain things like the existence of the past, or the existence of other minds than your own, so that everything you experience is not merely an illusion in your mind.
And yes you are right that the argument does not answer why there is cancer, but then again it was never meant to do that. It was merely to show that this does not necessarily make God evil.
1) Can you mention just one fact that is supported by all evidence?? I have evidence for the fact that my house is situated in Denmark, but what has that got to do with a the scientific fact that the earth is round?
2) What scientific fact contradicts Christianity?
3) There are many theories that are not testable - for instance the theory that we can trust experience. The theory of falsicification is not testable itself either!
First of all I do not believe that the philosophy of religion belongs to the scientific realm in such a way that the existance of God can be proven scientifically or not.
Secondly I am interested to hear how this argument fails to avoid contradiction to evidence and what evidence, really. Scientific research is based on the probability of something to be true, based on a evidence based on research, while this argument is more comparable to the laws of mathematic, like 1+1= 2.
The answer to this problem is easy. Atheist must proove that there is NO OTHER reason why God is not willing to solve evil than the no existence of God (or that god is not good).
Christianity say that there is other reason: human freedom. Because this cannot be prooved, this problem is not a proof against god´s existence. In fact, the problem is a tautology. To proove that there is no other reason, you must proove that either God is not good or do not exist, which is the same result.
You say that "that which is known by God is planned by God." I disagree with that. Omniscience and predetermination are two different things. God knows what is happening, but he is allowing it to happen, in other words free will.
The good question is why. I am not going to pretend that I am 100% sure of "whence is evil". The video isn't illustrating this either, it is merely showing that there is not a logical contradiction between the premises 'God is good and omnipotent'
This reply to Hume seems familiar. Did you get from Mackie or Chisholm? Regardless, premise 4 'A good thing removes evil as far as it can' doesn't take into account that God, as the omnipotent, omniscient, source of all things, must have knowingly produced the evil he wishes to remove. The argument assumes that the evil that is currently in existence must not have been avoidable in the first place by a being that, by definition, can do anything. Whence then is evil?
I believe it belongs to the double sided concept of free will. If God has given us free we will have a responsibility for the choices we make. According to biblical theology God made a perfect world, but man turned away from God thus making the world a worse place.
The big question then is whether free will is a good thing or not. I think it is, what do you think?
You pose an interesting question. God and free will is tricky issue. One that takes a fair bit of sophistry to resolve. That which is known by God is planned by God. If God is omniscient, then he knows the consequences of free will. But in that case, our will isn't really free, merely part of God's plan. If our will is free, then God cannot have planned our actions and does not know them in advance. In that case, God is not omniscient. But I am sure you've read all this before.
Thank you for this very good and thought provoking explanation. However it is not adequate. For instance, why did God construct a world where it is possible to stub one's toe? My favorite way to say this Is--Why did God not create us in the state in which we will be in heaven to begin with? Why this interlude of evil that is this world?
I have to write an essay on the existence of god for school and this actually made a lot of sense to me, thankyou (:
NaTJones1 1 year ago
I have only one question in Judgement day when He will judge all human kind before his throne wont He know already what each and every one of us will do or have done until that very day?Then why bother create us and then judge us since he already knows that some of us will end up either in heaven or hell.
Oblivi9n 2 years ago
Well, then I believe that there is no reason to continue this discussion, because what I would say would pretty much be a repetition of what is already said in the video. I am pretty sure that nothing useful will come out of this.
mariagerbiblecollege 2 years ago
You are going in circles and now you are back at the original argument.
If you listen to the argument in this video then you will see that it does not necessarily follow from the existence of evil, caused by humanity or not, that God is either malevolent or non-existent.
mariagerbiblecollege 2 years ago
I can see and must admit that this part of the video might not be so well formulated. First of all this statement comes after the argument itself and is not directed at the problem of evil itself.
Second, what I mean is that if God had to remove evil we would be included amongst all other evils, because we certainly do evil. I do not mean that humans are the ultimate source of evil.
I mean that God chooses not to remove evil because he wishes to give us, doers of evil, another chance.
mariagerbiblecollege 2 years ago
How does cancer refute the argument?
mariagerbiblecollege 2 years ago
If you can only rely on science or empirical evidence you would have a hard time to prove certain things like the existence of the past, or the existence of other minds than your own, so that everything you experience is not merely an illusion in your mind.
And yes you are right that the argument does not answer why there is cancer, but then again it was never meant to do that. It was merely to show that this does not necessarily make God evil.
mariagerbiblecollege 2 years ago
1) Can you mention just one fact that is supported by all evidence?? I have evidence for the fact that my house is situated in Denmark, but what has that got to do with a the scientific fact that the earth is round?
2) What scientific fact contradicts Christianity?
3) There are many theories that are not testable - for instance the theory that we can trust experience. The theory of falsicification is not testable itself either!
davkerja 2 years ago
RowanEvans123
First of all I do not believe that the philosophy of religion belongs to the scientific realm in such a way that the existance of God can be proven scientifically or not.
Secondly I am interested to hear how this argument fails to avoid contradiction to evidence and what evidence, really. Scientific research is based on the probability of something to be true, based on a evidence based on research, while this argument is more comparable to the laws of mathematic, like 1+1= 2.
mariagerbiblecollege 3 years ago
The answer to this problem is easy. Atheist must proove that there is NO OTHER reason why God is not willing to solve evil than the no existence of God (or that god is not good).
Christianity say that there is other reason: human freedom. Because this cannot be prooved, this problem is not a proof against god´s existence. In fact, the problem is a tautology. To proove that there is no other reason, you must proove that either God is not good or do not exist, which is the same result.
RaspatanOriginalPapa 3 years ago
You say that "that which is known by God is planned by God." I disagree with that. Omniscience and predetermination are two different things. God knows what is happening, but he is allowing it to happen, in other words free will.
The good question is why. I am not going to pretend that I am 100% sure of "whence is evil". The video isn't illustrating this either, it is merely showing that there is not a logical contradiction between the premises 'God is good and omnipotent'
and 'There is evil'.
mariagerbiblecollege 3 years ago
This reply to Hume seems familiar. Did you get from Mackie or Chisholm? Regardless, premise 4 'A good thing removes evil as far as it can' doesn't take into account that God, as the omnipotent, omniscient, source of all things, must have knowingly produced the evil he wishes to remove. The argument assumes that the evil that is currently in existence must not have been avoidable in the first place by a being that, by definition, can do anything. Whence then is evil?
StatutoryJape 3 years ago
As a matter of fact I have it from Alvin Plantinga in his book God, Freedom and Evil.
mariagerbiblecollege 3 years ago
That's right. Of course it Plantinga! Now that I think about it, Mackie argued against God using the problem of evil.
StatutoryJape 3 years ago
I believe it belongs to the double sided concept of free will. If God has given us free we will have a responsibility for the choices we make. According to biblical theology God made a perfect world, but man turned away from God thus making the world a worse place.
The big question then is whether free will is a good thing or not. I think it is, what do you think?
mariagerbiblecollege 3 years ago
You pose an interesting question. God and free will is tricky issue. One that takes a fair bit of sophistry to resolve. That which is known by God is planned by God. If God is omniscient, then he knows the consequences of free will. But in that case, our will isn't really free, merely part of God's plan. If our will is free, then God cannot have planned our actions and does not know them in advance. In that case, God is not omniscient. But I am sure you've read all this before.
StatutoryJape 3 years ago
Thank you for this very good and thought provoking explanation. However it is not adequate. For instance, why did God construct a world where it is possible to stub one's toe? My favorite way to say this Is--Why did God not create us in the state in which we will be in heaven to begin with? Why this interlude of evil that is this world?
hadtohappen 3 years ago