Is the Quran Perfectly Preserved - Zawadi vs. Qureshi - 02 - Rebuttals and Conclusions

[notionSlave]

Nabeel: "Im just showing what we agree on and I arrive at a different conclusion from an ibjective viewpoint"

LOOOOOOOOOLLLLL!!

Sorry Nabeel you cant conclude anything other than the fact that the Quran is perfect in its preservation! ;) 🎉

[TheIsmaelIsaac]

Allahu Akbar .... all praises be the only one creator of everthing ... Very well presentaion,

brother Dawoodi. You shook the infidel like the bug he is.

[cis503]

jazakallah shiekh zawadi, maansha alah you won well done

this damn even not know what he is talking about,lier fabricator,burn in the hell he is confused

[aheartoflion]

Quran was sent to Muhammad (PBUH) as a complete text and one of the biggest duties of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was to preserve the text. Print was available at that time and he did what ever in his domain to preserve it whether in text form or any-other. The Hadith literature is a crap which only undermines the greatness of Muhammad (PBUH) but also Allah himself. It is mentioned in Quran that Allah has taken this duty to reserve it and period.

[samir576]

At the 50:40 mark u Bassam point major factual errors that Nabeel presented on the account of the 4 chosen reciters. What Bassam doesn`t point out is that since Ubay was on the committee to compile the quran along with zaid, he could not disagree with zaid and must have chosen to take out the 2 extra surahs that he had. However, Nabeel claims exactly the opposite.

[samir576]

Nabeel has to check his sources, if you watch this video watch?v=4_HxKbvraNc u can see Nabeel blatantly lying abt the prophet to a group of people. He knows he will get away with it because the audience probably has no background in islam. If you do not believe that he is lying, then do some research and u will quickly see that all of this is made up.

[samir576]

Nabeel accuses Bassam of making ad hoc statement in regards to why ibn masud did not include the 1st surah but then he himself goes onto say that Uthman pressured masud into accepting zaid`s quran by threatening and bullying him. There is absolutely NO evidence for this at all in any source. In fact you can find proof that all the companions agreed with Uthman`s actions in the end of their own accord.

[samir576]

What nabeel fails to realize is that Ibn Masud did not compile the quran for others but rather for himself as his personal copy, and he did not want to write the 1st surah before every other surah and knew that he would never forget the 1 surah ever in his life. So he did not include it for himself, that does not mean that he would not include the 1st surah if he were to compile the quran for the entire muslim people to read.

[StopSpamming1]

If the god of the Muslims, Allah, can't "guard" the other books he sent "down", how can anyone be sure he can "guard" the Koran?

If a person memorises a James Bond novel, does it make it more true?

The difference is that a James Bond novel uses a higher vocabulary, correct grammar and has less factual errors.

[ShaheedAlSadr]

@StopSpamming1

"correct grammar"? A person who says that the Quran has grammatic errors in it only exposes their sheer ignorance of the Arabic language. The Arabic language itself was codified and standardized by the Quran.

Bring any so-called "grammatical mistake" and we can easily point to a rule in the Arabic language and example of how the people at the time used it to show that it is not a mistake.

And there are no factual errors.

[ShaheedAlSadr]

@ShaheedAlSadr

Finally, there's a difference between "cant" and didn't". It is horribly flawed to mistake "not preserving something" with "not being able to preserve something"

[StopSpamming1]

@ShaheedAlSadr

Oh dear, another zealot.

Is mistaking "and" and "or" in 4:3 a factual or a grammatical error?

Is mistaking Sabiyoon and Sabiyeen a factual or a grammatical error?

Referring to a barrier between seas or sweet and salt water is a factual error. The same goes for the description of embryology, as I object to having been created from dust, then some liquid and blood and being called a leech that sucks blood.

Maybe you should watch my channel before further embarrassing yourself.

[ShaheedAlSadr]

@StopSpamming1

@StopSpamming1

Oh dear, another person who acts like an expert on Arabic grammar after watching a few YouTube videos.

You're joking if you think there's a mistake between "and" and "or" in 4:3.

And al-Saabi'oon and al-Saabi'een are perfectly grammatically correct in their own contexts.

al-Saabi'oon is apparently marfoo3 in 5:69 because it is attached to "alladheena aamanoo"

And al-Saabi'een is apparently mansoob because it is attached to "inna"

Both are perfectly fine.

[ShaheedAlSadr]

@ShaheedAlSadr

But the above and your comments below really regarding embroyalogy show your ignorance in even basic Arabic. How sad is it that a person critiscizes the grammar of a Book of God and doesn't even know the language that it was written it, yet he considers himself to be so enlightened.

And if you are interested in an honest discussion, then i would be glad to discuss the flaws with your videos that criticize the Quran.

[ShaheedAlSadr]

@ShaheedAlSadr

But if you are only interested in only bashing the Quran without an intellectual discussion, then i can't help you there.

And the seperation between salt and fresh water is a plain and simple phenomenon that you can see with your own eyes if you go to certain areas, like where the Nile meets the Mediterranean.

Finally, object all you want, but the fact of the matter is that yesterday you were sperm and tomorrow you will be food for worms. No need to get all high and mighty.

[StopSpamming1]

@ShaheedAlSadr

Like I said: another zealot. You are excellent at adjusting reality to your faith. But that's all.

[yassiraq]

Takbeer.... Allahu Akbar.... I am ashamed tht this guy nabeel is from our noble clan of Quraish or is he really????.. I wud do a DNA test... Shame shame shame u lost it vastly n badly nabeel. May Allah give u Hadayah to the right path..

[particle58]

Nabeel, you are a master of debate!!!

[oxelite]

Allahu Akbar!! Mr. Bassam Zawadi utterly destroyed Mr. Qureshi's arguments. Excellent demonstration.

[AstaghfirullahRabbi]

Quran

15:9 "Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Quran and surely, We will guard it."

I do Not need any Guard better than Almighty Himself, Allah-u-Akbar!

1400 Years, Only 1 Quran around the World, No other Version or Edition, Allah-u-Akbar!

[DrXoz]

Nabeel is according to me one of the best christian debators so far. But I have to hand it to brother Zawadi, he totally crushed Nabeel.

[HIMAZZZ1991]

well done ZAWADI !

[TheIceman466]

waatch from 1:04:50 .. how he gestures ....

you guys will know for yourself what a joke this muslim debater is

[MuslimRationalizer]

@TheIceman466 Yes he completely rocked Nabeel.

[TheIceman466]

what a joke this guy is .. In the Q & A ... he frantically asks someone in the audience to ask the question to nabeel ... if this guy was so confidant why so scared ....

[gringoroko]

nabeel is kicking asses as always!

[1anj1]

i honestly feel for nabeel, ahmediyyan and now christian.

out of the pan and into........

he got owned.

[ansar90]

haha this ex qadiani character got absolutely DESTROYED .. there is no doubt that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved as an oral transmission ...

[forzaitalia2]

@ansar90 your right, its perfectly preserved...it also preserved all the changes in it. the quran and muhammad has destroyed your head

[prince4king7]

@ansar90 really???? u guys try to throw out and reject everything which goes against u, thats y u reject O.T and N.T and those tafseers and hadith which go against u, u simply go out and throw them out and then say WOW, we have fully preserved book! ur simply ignorant!

zwadi got owned by friend!!!

[forzaitalia2]

nice debate. i follow all of nabeels debates. hes much more informed than most of his opposition

[prince4king7]

@forzaitalia2 agreed!

[Hamilton111111]

Qureshi has no chance!

[MrDeathafterlife]

philip .you will like the  burnd chikens .ohh i mean your burn body .and satan raiping you down there !

[x12yz]

continued...

No other book on the face of this earth can challenge to its readers, as explicitly as it can be.. such as this verse says...

2:23 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down ( the Quran ) upon our Servant ( Muhammad), then produce a surah(chapter) the like thereof and call upon your witness ( i.e supporters ) other than Allah, if you should be truthful

The book says its a 'challenge' :-)

[MochaC89]

Are you so blind that you can't see you are being decieved by Mohammed. Mohammed was a deciever of men. It even says that in the Quran. You are probably hopeless because unlike some people, you too lazy to actually look outside the Quran and search for the truth yourself, with scholarly Peer reviewed Sources! And I'm not saying its easy, but you have to use your logic and common sense as well, that is if you have any. you have no one to blame but yourself

[x12yz]

@MochaC89, I appreciate your comments; you are right we should be open-minded and seek for the truth. I am a student of comparative religions especially, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism and Islam.

In order to know the truth we should first read and learn their immediate religious Holy Scriptures. They are the foundations and the facts for their religions. After reading them, it will provide us enough insight, how well they might have been preserved in their original text.

[x12yz]

continued...

We dont have to go straight in the history to evaluate them.Easy way would be lets analyze the current scriptures in their context and be our own judge.

As Jesus says in the bible Matthew 5:20

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

[x12yz]

Please watch is video on youtube, you may find it interesting.. watch?v=fw3do0TLv6o

May God accept our good deeds..

[x12yz]

continued...

4:82 Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy

[x12yz]

The definition of being preserved demands = Truth, absolute facts, Authenticity and its Accuracy..

I am not sure why Quershi is going in history to demand how preserve the Quran is.

If I were to debate him, my respond would be.. Let the Quran speak itself

Few of the references:

God Almighty says in the Quran

15:9 Indeed, it is We who sent down the message ( the Quran), and indeed, We will be its guardian.

[MochaC89]

Bassam is so ambiguous Bassam, stop beating around the bush and directly confront Nabeel's questions rather than be ambiguous. Muslims, please look into your heart and carry an open mind! you deserve to know the truth and owe it to yourself to DO THE RESEARCH if you really are serious about knowing the truth. THIS IS YOUR LIFE!

[x12yz]

@MochaC89

I think Bassam did a good job in responding back to Queshi's arguments. You can see at the very end of the debate where Quershi admits that he is not a scholar and does not either have strong evidences to disapprove what Bassam replied to him in all of his arguments. In contrary, Quershi admits that he still needs to do more research..

All he did was to confuse the audience, I am sure among audience especially non-Muslims did not bother to even question how authentic he was.

[MochaC89]

I don't think you even saw the video. Either that or you're deaf. Because otherwise you would not be saying bassam did a 'good job' in responding to his questions. He completely ignored some of Quershi's questions, even after he brought them up again. Who are you trying to fool?

[hen8167]

i would personaly never follow a religion that associates partners will god. AND christianity is one of them.

[oombuddah]

A Brief History of the Quranic Texts by Shabir Ally - type that in on youtube.

It covers absolutely everything. It is a good "after-debate" video.

(the title I gave you is put underneath as a video response to Dr. James White's works about Ibn Masud's death and stuff, and JibreelK also gives a response to Dr. James White's video).

[SUSTAIN22]

he just destroyed every weak argument this non believer Nabeel had.

[oombuddah]

Yahya, what were you guys talking about straight after the debate? Bassam seemed a bit angry?

[aminmirza]

nabeel got owned,

[azeem0911]

Wow, Brother Bassam is extremely good. He destroys David Wood's pet Nabeel.

[submissiontoone]

Muslim610 I agree a 100% with you, I must say though

this view ( of Nabeel) is held by all christians

[hamidq]

i just realized that that's that mansur guy from dawah in the park. he killed it in this and that.

[POISON3000X]

do u know what , Christian should bring some scholar who can speak arabic , it wont take more than 10 min to just prove that Quran is preserved .. no wonder Arab christian scholars avoid this topic , googling this topic and searching for book in Arabic and english is just rare .. add to this , christian should never try this again , bcoz it opens gates of hell bcoz of the bible .. we know whats wrong with the bible ..

[Severion]

so what is wrong with the bible?

[almao2006]

Bassam is really a smart Debater!!

Machaa Allah

Allah bless you Brother

[Kazvball1]

this bassam guy dominated this debate

[achilleus11]

lol great job by Bassam, he dominated the whole way.

[UalhashimiU]

jesus hve Organs.... he's not God never...even if there is incarnation

[muslim610]

Nabeel gives it all that talk about logic,then believes in a book(new test) that was authored by 4 anonymous men & the trinity & thinks God(Jesus) in the form of a man, came down to earth through a womans passage(u know what I mean) and suckled on a womans u know what,then let the romans crucify him,hmm,let me ponder on that one for a mo.

[muslim610]

Whats up with the camera man.

[xXxAxBxZxXx]

LOL that was brother fot in the beginning

on topic: mashaallah Bassam Zawadi ownd Nabeel Qureshi just like brother fot ownd Nabeel Qureshi on YT

[shafsha711]

also Galalein said the same, Baghawy added it is above the seventh heaven

so after u showed urself as a lier...i dont know if anyone should trust any muslim like u , sammy or bassam or any other muslim (all liers)

Thanks that u exposed yourselves as liers , intolerant, and bad behaved creatures

GBU

[shafsha711]

When the lads and their teachers fought against each other during the era of Uthman due to the difference in reading (the Quranic text), he (Uthman) standardized the reading and made people recite it accordingly because he was afraid of riots since the Iraqis and the Damascenes disagreed on the dialect. But before that, the Quranic copies (used to be read) on the basis of the Seven Letters in which the Quran was given."

[MrGrandDragon]

Again let me repeat what has already been established. Uthman (ra) in an attempt to preserve the Quranic Text so to prevent disputes amongst differing tribes regarding dialects he standardised the Qur'an. The 7 ahruf is what brought about the competition and disputes...people inevitably have pride even though every version was the same!

[shafsha711]

Uthman did something against what the angel reveaed to Muhammed , cant u realize that ????????????????

[MrGrandDragon]

Don't you know that Uthman PRESERVED the Quran which is why ALL the companions that were present agreed! Not a single riot, not a single objection was raised. All scholars for over 1400 years have been unanimous on their absolute trust and agreement on what took place.

Don't you realise that you are stupid??????????? ^_^

[shafsha711]

wow, excellent reasoning, since no one objected, then you have to follow them ...is this the Muslim Cattle ??

[MrGrandDragon]

NO ONE OBJECTED WHICH MEANS THEY DID NOT FIND IT WRONG. SILENCE CAN QUALIFY AS ACCEPTANCE. The onus is one you to show evidence that people objected . Nabeel failed LOL

[shafsha711]

Silence Can Qulaify Acceptance : Where did u get this rule from ?! Because nabell didnt elaborate on some topix , does that mean he accepts that ?!

I dont know what do u mean by this weird reasoning ( silence -= acceptance) ?!!!

[MrGrandDragon]

You are an idiot. Eveytime you apply a rule to a completely different topic. I am talking about the even of Uthman when NO BODY rejected or objected which shows that they all agreed and had no problems with it. If there was ANY objection we would have it documented and categories but we don't have anything.

You don't anything because you did not listen to the debate!! Its explained in the Q&A section you dummy LOL

[shafsha711]

Who said they agreed to uthman version, in he very early minute to Nabeel opening, he just refuted this point, one of the best reciters of the quran opposed the uthmanic version of the quran.

Btw, is this one of te 5 corners in islam, to insult others ?!! i just wanna kno

GBU

[shafsha711]

reaf this: When the lads and their teachers fought against each other during the era of Uthman due to the difference in reading (the Quranic text), he (Uthman) standardized the reading and made people recite it accordingly because he was afraid of riots since the Iraqis and the Damascenes disagreed on the dialect. But before that, the Quranic copies (used to be read) on the basis of the Seven Letters in which the Quran was given

[MrGrandDragon]

That is such a horrendous translation. Where does it say Lads??? LOL Can you give me the ACTUAL reference. Or are you just copying wholesale from a website like usual.

[shafsha711]

refernce is here:

"The Itqan" by Suyuti Paragraph 1, Page 170 and 171

[shafsha711]

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "Gabriel recited the Qur'an to me in one way. Then I requested him (to read it in another way), and continued asking him to recite it in other ways, and he recited it in several ways till he ultimately recited it in seven different ways."

Sahih Bukhari 6:61:513, See Also Sahih Bukhari 4:54:442, Sahih Muslim 4:1785, Sahih Muslim 4:1786, Sahih Muslim 4:1787, Sahih Muslim 4:1788

[shafsha711]

Ubay ibn Kab: "This famous companion asked one of the Muslims, How many verses in the chapter of the Parties? He said, Seventy-two or seventy-three verses. He (Ubay) told him, It used to be almost equal to the chapter of the Cow (about 286 verses) and included the verse of the stoning. The man asked, What is the verse of the stoning? He said, If an old man or woman committed adultery, stone them to death."

[MrGrandDragon]

It USE to contain the verse of stoning which means it was later abrogated as Uthman (ra) narrated himself. I will address that other issue later.

[shafsha711]

U say it was abrogated, Dont u know that Aisha practiced this ?! so did she practiced an abrogated law ?!!

[MrGrandDragon]

You fool the VERSE was abrogated literally, which means the verses no longer exists but he application still exists. Were you not paying attention tot he debate?!! LOL

Typical idiot

[shafsha711]

Who is bassam so i should take his word forgranted and ignore a clear text ?!!

Do u want me to go with reinterpretation ?!

read it , it well clear.

And I wont behave like u ,and go down ur ver low islamic level which teaches u to insl people ( muhmadania follower) I want u to go on keep insulting, show us the truth of islam :D

[MrGrandDragon]

No Understand what he is saying about the text. Is it properly translated? Is ACCURATE? What is the context? Is it Weak?! He already gave satisfactory answers. You are just a silly child LOL

[shafsha711]

yes it very accurate, not our of context,

keep isnulting .. show people the truth about islam

See Audience: Islamic intolerance to criticism

[spicenut]

Two questions:

1. If Muslims stopped practicing verses which were abrogated literally, would that mean that the Qur'an had not been preserved ? In other words, does the preservation of such verses depend upon the practicing of muslims?

2. When Allah says that He does not cause things to be abrogated but substitutes them with something better, does that mean that the practice performed by muslims is better than the word given by Allah?

[MrGrandDragon]

How can a practise prescribed BY Allah be any less different in its status when the source is the same?! You question is not logically coherent.

Abrogation will only take place when the subsequent revelation is better or similar. Why is this? Because circumstances change and in different conditions people can adapt different rulings.

e.g Jesus did not preach retaliation since they were not in a position to enforce any power or sway, but David with his people was in a power to retaliate

[shafsha711]

Aisha: "During the time of the prophet, the chapter of the Parties used to be two hundred verses when read. When Uthman edited the copies of the Quran, only the current (verses) were recorded

Suyuti: Itqan, Part 3, Page 72

[shafsha711]

Ibn Umar alKhattab: "Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire Quran for how does he know that it is all? Much of the Quran has been lost, thus let him say, I have acquired of it what is available

The Itqan" by Suyuti Part 3, Page 72

[MrGrandDragon]

You idiot didn't you hear what Brother Zawadi said regarding this hadith??!

[shafsha711]

Who is bassam so i should take his word forgranted and ignore a clear text ?!!

Do u want me to go with reinterpretation ?!

read it , it well clear.

And I wont behave like u ,and go down ur ver low islamic level which teaches u to insl people ( muhmadania follower) I want u to go on keep insulting, show us the truth of islam :D

[MrGrandDragon]

So WHAT if Zaid Ibn Thabit forgot a verse???!!! He varified it with the other comapions and PRESTO it was all sorted.

Nabeel got OWNED

[shafsha711]

Uknown comapnion shared to make the quran !!! Do u know who are those who recited the quran to be written down ?! whom the quran was colleced from ?!! who witnessed them ?!!

Let me give u an example, how was sura 105 collected ?! from whom ? by who ? who witnessed this ??

U dont know any of them ... well good for u ... u have a book with unkown authors !!!

so anyone probably said whatever they wanted, and may be that one of the reasons we have errors in the quran !!

[MrGrandDragon]

Are you retarded?? Have you ever heard of the Tafseer? Hadith?? Sunnah?? Islamic Scholars perhaps?? I am not a Scholar and I do not every detail about the Qur'an preservation. Go read the Book written by Yasir Qadhi. Do you Independent research. Abd Allah ibn Mas`ud Salim, Mawla Abi Hudhayfa Mu`adh ibn Jabal Ubay ibn Ka`b Zayd ibn Thabit Abu Zayd Abu al-Darda Abu Musa al-Ash`ari and SO MANY MORE

[shafsha711]

So now we see that the muslim started to get angry, and return to his normal arbaric behavious

If u are not a scholar, so why bothering commenting on the youtube ?! Wont u expect that someone might ask u ?! ok so you Dont know ... Fine !! Just say You dont know

Or islam teaches u to be arrogant, instead of saying u dont know, go search !!!

I think a religion should teach u how to be well behaved ... try to respect yourself

[MrGrandDragon]

1. al-Nawawi, al-Tibyan fi Adab Hamala al-Qur'an (p. 31);

2. al-Dhahabi, Tabaqat al-Qurra' (1:24-50)

3. al-Suyuti, al-Itqan fi `Ulum al-Qur'an (1:70-72);

4. al-Zarkashi, al-Burhan fi `Ulum al-Qur'an (1:241-243);

5. Nur al-Din `Itr, `Ulum al-Qur'an al-Karim (p. 164-166).

Go on the above references and STUDY & RESEARCH you silly person

[shafsha711]

I will be better than U be cause we Christians are far well behaved and I wont reply u saying u are silly as u did, But I will tell u GoD bless u

thanks

[MrGrandDragon]

What do we want yo show that the Quran has not been preserved??

What can YOU show??!

Everything you attempt to show is either FABRICATED, WEAK, MISINTURPRETED, SUPERFICIAL, OUT OF HISTORIC SCOPE OR SIMPLY VARIANTS IN QIRAT WHICH DO NOT CONSTITUTE AS A VARIATION OF THE TEXT

[shafsha711]

WOW, u mean Aisha was Lier, Ubay ibn Kab one of the best chosen reciter is a fabricator ?! Umar Ibn Khattab was forgerer ?! They all agreed that many parts of the quran were lost !!! is itus who misinterpreted them ?!!

U say variation is not a problem ok, are they included in the preseved tablet sura 85:21-22 ??

[MrGrandDragon]

What?? Who said that Aisha (ra) was a liar? Are you on some drugs. Your comments are seriously retarded. Who said that Ubay Ibn Kab is a fabricator? On one hand you ask stupid questions like Who compiled the Quran & who were the companions and now you sight the companions with false accusations! What an idiot!

These variation are the SAME text with the SAME letters which mean the SAME thing. So YES they are all preserved. But this Tablet is metaphorical you silly person.

[shafsha711]

wow tablet is metaphorical ... u are against all muslims !!! against Allah Words itself ..

I bet you if u have any single refence that says it is Metaphorical !!!

[MrGrandDragon]

Wow and you don't know that??!!! Almost ALL the scholars hold this position!!

The well-known Quran Translator Muhammad Asad has written: "Some commentators take it (i.e. the expression, "the Preserved Tablet") in its literal sense and understand that it is an actual "heavenly tablet" upon which the Quran has been inscribed for all eternity; to many others the phrase has always had a metaphorical meaning: namely, an allusion to the imperishable quality of this divine writ

[shafsha711]

refernces for your claims

[MrGrandDragon]

Why do I need to reference my claims when all what I say is mentioned in the DEBATE above you. Just bother listening to the Muslim side you ignorant stubborn child.

[shafsha711]

Reference that it is metaphorical

U are going against Ijma Ulma !!!

so u have to prove ur point !!

[MrGrandDragon]

No1: you know nothing of any Ijma since you don't even know the difference between a variation and a contextual variation or the 7 Ahruf

No2: You simply nip pick hadith which have ALREADY been refuted and corrected in the debate LOL

No3: I GAVE you a credible Scholars opinion and commentary regarding the verse. Why don't you OPEN your eyes. Mohammed Asad is very credible.

[shafsha711]

actullay ur book has described it in all sorts o things, some said it is formed o jewel, and written with Light, and it is hight like up to heaven

U want to go against all of them fine, just dont foget to through them away into the nearest garbage can

And please tell your fellow muslims ... I am not going to defend their position, they will defend themselves.

Muhamed asad is not one of the old commentators...

so do u want me to belive somone who ignores previous suthentic scholars?

[MrGrandDragon]

Oh and know you simply make things up like a liar? Why don't YOU quote me references. And don't Mix the nature of revelation to what the Qur'an is saying! The verse which mentioned the Tablet is speaking about the PRESERVATION of the Qur'an which is DISTINCT from the NATURE of revelation...

I never just sighted Mohammed Asad you fool. I gave many scholars from the First century. You keep shifting subjects and confusing concepts of theology like a little satan LOL

[MrGrandDragon]

This interpretation is pointedly mentioned as justified by, Tabari, Al-Baghawi, Razi even Ibn Kathir and many more. The verses in Metaphorical.

Its your stupid word against these major Scholars. :D

[shafsha711]

Lier:

Let me tell  : Tabaria and Kortobi said: it is the mother of the books and it is in the forehead of Israfeel (angel).

Kortobi added it is a tablet on the right side of Allah,

there more ... so u r lier ... any one can check and simply will knw u are a llier !!!

why u wanna lose ur credibility !!

[shafsha711]

also Galalein said the same, Baghawy added it is above the seventh heaven

so after u showed urself as a lier...i dont know if anyone should trust any muslim like u , sammy or bassam or any other muslim (all liers)

Thanks that u exposed yourselves as liers , intolerant, and bad behaved creatures

GBU

[MrGrandDragon]

You are a liar and a very ignorant immature human being. You have yet yo prove anything.

You disregard the whole debate. LOL

[shafsha711]

Bassam has showed us nothing, excpet that he claims varaitions are inspired .. wow !! If u thinkI am liar, I am iviting everyone to check the following tafseer for Suhar 85:21-22 in Ibn Katheer Kortobi Tabari El Galaelin El Baghawy El Saeed Are those enough for you or u need more ??!! And simple they will knew who is lying Sir !! Let me congratulate you .. by these u declared u are defeated, no one will trust u anymore , thanks for helping me prove my points

[shafsha711]

And again, Thanks very much for insulting me, and saying I am immature gnorant, as this reall shows every one what is the real muslims behaviour, and how they respond to criiticsim.

THANKS LOT

:)

[MrGrandDragon]

I only tell the truth so if the Truth hurts then so be it :)

I am glad to tell you the truth about your immature stupid behaviour and logic. Thanks for agreeing with me ^_^

[shafsha711]

may our lord Bless u Sir

[MrGrandDragon]

"That is, "The writ of the Qur'an is unchangeable and imperishable. It is inscribed in the Preserved Tablet of God. which cannot he corrupted in any way Whatever is written in it, has to be fulfilled: even the whole world together cannot avert its fulfilment."

THAT is the interpreation of 85:21

[MrGrandDragon]

I have checked the Tafsir here it is:

"In a tablet, suspended above the seventh heaven, preserved (read mahfūzin), from all devils and from having any of its contents altered; it is a high as the distance between the earth and the heaven, and as wide as the distance between the east and the west, made of white pearls — as stated by Ibn Abbās, may God be pleased with both [him and his father, Abbās"

So this is what is mentioned in Tafsir al-Jalalayn

[shafsha711]

so he it is clear: that the glorious koran is in a Tablet suspended above heavens, preseved from aleration, thanks

did it mention that it is metaphorical in any way ?! no..

now the question, were the 7 ahruf included in the tablet ?!

if yes: then u Koran is corrupted by addition

if no: then you koran is corrupted by addition,

thank u , have a good day!

[shafsha711]

sorry i meant if yes, then corrupted by deletion

[MrGrandDragon]

lol Who is Tabaria?? Who is Kortobi??

[shafsha711]

Tabary , Kortobi : Go ask any muslims.. he will tell u those are one of the most great muslim commentators !!

[MrGrandDragon]

LEARN to spell. Its Tabari and Kurtubi... I was confused with your horrendous spelling.

[shafsha711]

Yes I need to learn how to read and write like your prophet !

[Yasmeensaid]

listen, if you don't want to learn or read the quran, then get your self a life. People like you are the reason why there are wars.

[shafsha711]

well I dont think i ever commanded anone to kill those who dont belive in allah as in Surah 9:29, nor did i ever say that i have been commanded to fight people till they bear witness that i am a prophet. And i never said i will expel any one from his country as messenger of islam did !!

conslusion: u r talking to the wrong person!

[Yasmeensaid]

surpise surpise...you are like those people who pick a line in a verse and just state their conclusion...buddy if you took the time to actually read it carefully then you were wil probably understand more clearly, you see I won`t waste my time with small minded people like urself no matter what efforts you do to "satanize" this beautiful religion their will always be thousands of muslim people,and to give you one fact the are so many muslim reverts every year :) why don't you ask them.

[Yasmeensaid]

oh another thing...your so called christian debater choose christianity because a "dream" came to him...now really? jesus came to him in a dream and told him to become christian...any idotic would know that was his sub-concious talking to him,

[shafsha711]

who told u that islam is spreading ?

or that spreading means that it is true ?

buddhism and asthieism is spreading !!! corruption is spreading !!! and if u really belive that numbers mean something, than still number od christians are more than muslims !!!

[shafsha711]

thanks for you clear imploitness.. but i i wont belame u , u r following teaching of islam!!!

well if u have any obection about the commands of your prophets to expel non mulsim form the islamic state would be happy to know.

thanks

[Yasmeensaid]

looooooooooooooooooooooool "imploitness" woowizer of course this debate is insignificant im talking to a uneducated person... i mean you don't even know how to spell or comprehend words, and you're taking verses from the quran?! listen, with all due respect your arugments are pathetic and insignificant ..im not going to waste my beautiful time with a complete dumbass so peace out..

[shafsha711]

well saying (with all due respect) doesnt give u an excuse !!!

listen if u dont have time, y even bother commenting here ?

i think it is clear the reason is: u r mentally bankrupt, so all your posts so far are free of substance.

again: would u please explain those teroristic orders of your prophet to expel non-muslims from the arabian penisula ?

thanks

[MrGrandDragon]

The Word of Allah is eternal in its existence since that makes sense but since you want me humiliate you I will proceed...

Humans will inevitably die out which means the word of God will no longer be applicable! Only if Allah wills it.

So if you insist that your Gospel (which is filled with untold errors, contradictions and discrepancies) is on par with the Qur'an then you are wrong. We are confident that the Qur'an is the PERFECT 100% words of God whereas your scripture is NOT 100%

[shafsha711]

Quran is not perfect,: it conatins errors on all levels.

Scientific , Historical , textual, grammer, etc...

Since were talking about corruptions of text, let me ask u , now u admitted there are variation, are ey included in the preserved Heaenly Tablet Sura 85: 21-22 ???

[Nakdimon316]

its not 100% Allahs word by your own criterion. Al Fatiha is NOT from Allah is it? therefore by ur own admission it is not 100% Allah's speech. 2nd: If you think that having variants, missing wording in 1 mss and added wording in 1 mss is "prefect preservation" then the NT is also perfectly preserved. 3rd: The Quran has clear errors in it. S9:30-31 Jews say Ezra is the son of God. WHEN WAS THAT? S41:3 Quran is detailed. What are the conditions of Hadj, Zakaat, Salaat and Ramadan FROM QURAN? etc.

[MrGrandDragon]

Al Fatiha IS By Allah. Are you Christians all impaired or what?! Didn't you listen to the debate! Ibn Masud did NOT reject Al Fatiha he simply did not include it in his compilation for convenient sakes since he would have to document it in the beginning of every surah. Almost every other Companions has it included in their compilation.

NO word is missing. That is a complete lie. Only letters are added for vowels for pronounciation and dialectic marks again which are the 7 Ahruf!

[MrGrandDragon]

The NT manuscripts Almost ALL entirely are NONE Identical LOL You cant not compare the nature of the Quran and it revelation to the nature of the Four synoptic biographies. The very nature of the text is different! To strike a similarity is SOO far fetched. here is NO such thing as Ahruf in the Bible or different dialectic marks! LOL These are only found in the Qur'an because of its miraculous nature and its ability to maintain a identical meaning despite authentic variations in pronouciation

[MrGrandDragon]

As log as the Qur'an is applicable it will retain its position as the infallible Word of God. The very fact that your scripture is not infallible nullifies its authority and validity when compares to the Qur'an. Not only does the Qur'an retain its perfectly preserves status whilst its being applied it continues to retain that position even after the humans are long gone in heaven.

[shafsha711]

US consitituion is applicable to and continues, does that make it the word of God ?! or the quran is just like a7th century arabian constituiotn which is forcd to be applicable ?!

[MrGrandDragon]

You fool the US Constitution does not claim to be inspired by God nor do people worship it as God divine word. The US constitution does not say its Gods word! LOL

Your Logic is like a silly child. Try harder you idiot

[shafsha711]

Well I claim it is inspired by God !! Does this make any difference with the case ?!

[MrGrandDragon]

YES your claim is not enough. YOU need to sight evidence that the text itself makes such a claim. Verification entails a purpose. the purpose of the US codes of conduct are not to rule the world under Gods commands.. LOOL

[Nakdimon316]

So as long as any document, no matter how flawed it is, it applicable, it is to be seen as authentic at least and called perfect at best? then what do you gripe about the Bible?

[MrGrandDragon]

No1: These are not flawed at all. They are Sahi which means they have been authenticated by numerous independent companions and have multiple attestations. They have Isnad (chain of authority)

This is Sahi Sita. Again WHY DON'T YOU LISTEN TO THE MUSLIM SPEAKER

Even Nabeel has NO objection to the sources in the whole debate

[shafsha711]

Did any one told u we follow Nabeel ?!

and thanks we already know what Sahih means

[MrGrandDragon]

He is more credible then you. You just copy and paste from his website. You main representaive was humiliated in this debate which is why you are trying to use the same regurigitated arguments on the comment section.

Have you even listened to the debate?!

[shafsha711]

flaw claims, any evidence , or u are just acting like muhammed , false accusations ?!