RE: doctorh2005 Teaches Infused not Imputed Righteousness

[polopowers1]

I have simple questions for you.When the Holy Spirit is given by new birth does the Spirit of the living God contain the righteousness of Jesus Christ or is it somehow absent.? Second when you say works of law and obedience to law is our transferred righteousnes would that mean we are saved by works of law? How does the works of law equal God's righteousness? are you saying God's Holy Character is equal to the law.? Christ did not satisfy the law only God is perpetual Virtue more than law.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// When the Holy Spirit is givenh does the Spirit contain the righteousness of Jesus Christ or is it absent.? ///

Show me a verse that says "the Holy Spirit contains the righteousness of Jesus Christ"...

/// when you say works of law and obedience to law is our transferred righteousnes ///

Firstly, I do not support that statement,

Secondly, the only righteousness we have before God is that of JESUS CHRIST - because "all OUR righteous deeds are filthy rags" (Isa.64:6)

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 Do you need a verse to say Christ and the Holy Spirit have the exactt same righteousness.?The Holy Spirit is God Jesus is God the Father is God One inseperable. Never seperate in Virtue or Attribute. Your asking me where does it say the Holy Spirit have the righteousness of God.?Or are you saying the Holy Spirit has no righteousness because He did not become man and follow law.? Did Jesus have a different righteousness than God's Spirit.? CONTINUED

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Do you need a verse to say Christ and the Holy Spirit have the exactt same righteousness.? ///

You misunderstand the difference between God's ATTRIBUTE of "righteous" and the required CONDITION of "righteousness".

God "requires" that a man be "righteous" before God - and for man that is utterly impossible, because he is totally depraved, he's condemned and under the curse.

So Christ, came as a man, specifically to obey and fulfill the Law of God on behalf of His progeny.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Your asking me where does it say the Holy Spirit have the righteousness of God.? ///

Don't twist what you asked me.

You asked "Does the Spirit CONTAIN "the righteousness of Jesus Christ"

That is TOTALLY different to saying "God "IS" Righteous".

Scripture clearly says "By [Christ's] OBEDIENCE we are saved"

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// are you saying the Holy Spirit has no righteousness because He did not become man and follow law.? ///

Scripture clearly says "He became a man to FULFILL THE LAW [in perfect obedience]", and that that "obedience" of Christ is what saves us.

We are just in God's sight ONLY because of Christ's perfect obedience to the Law.

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 Christ's righteoousness He gives us came from His fulfilling the works and obedience of law ?.This would mean our righteousness comes from works of law and law's obedience,not possible.God's righteousness is perfect in Christ at birth not by laws works or obedience. It is a twisted backwards way of saying justification righteousness came from law and works, not possible. Christ never fulfilled law for transferred righteousness God's righteousness exceeds law is better

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Christ's righteoousness He gives us came from His fulfilling the works and obedience of law ?. ///

Yes - thats why He came to "FULFILL" the Law, and thats why His "OBEDIENCE", to the Law, is what saves us.

/// This would mean our righteousness comes from works of law and law's obedience ///

True - but its not OUR works of law or OUR obedience that saves us, its CHRIST'S works of law and CHRIST'S obedience.

"By grace are you saved, AND THIS IS NOT OF YOURSELVES"

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// God's righteousness is perfect in Christ at birth not by laws works or obedience. ///

Scripture says "He that DOETH good, is rightous" - and Scripture says that God requires man to "doeth" good - but man cannot, so Christ "became a man" to DO good works, and those good works are imputed to our account when we believe in Christ.

Why do you not accept this???

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Christ never fulfilled law for transferred righteousness ///

The Bible actually tells us that He DID.

Do you believe the Bible?

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 Your still saying the law works attributed to making some kind of righteousness. Why.? God's righteousness does not come from law He did not save us to have laws virtue but His eternal virtue in righteousness.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Your still saying the law works attributed to making some kind of righteousness. ///

What school did you go to? Did they not teach you how to type proper english?? Lol

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// God's righteousness does not come from law ///

God's ATTRIBUTE of righteousness is portrayed to us in the Law, and Christ's perfect record of obedience to the Law, during His walk here on earth as a man, is what saves us - it is what ultimately justifies us before God.

NONE of our own works contribute anything to our righteous standing before God. - becuase Scripture clearly says "ALL our good works are filthy rags" (ISAIAH 64:6)

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 No your confusing God's purpose of law it is powerless at revealing whom God is in Holy Character. The law is not God , God is not law. The law came by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ they are not the same. You think God gave a righteousness by law I know God has given the righteousness of His Person which is not the law or any law.He will judge the world in righteousnes by the Man whom He has ordained Acts 17:31 not by law.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// No your confusing God's purpose of law ///

No I'm not. God said "He that DOETH ALL THINGS THE LAW SAYS is righteous."

God gave us the Law as the Schoolmaster to lead us to Christ - for CHRIST is the One who perfectly fulfilled all the demands of the Law, procuring a perfect record of obedience. That OBEDIENCE saves us - ROMANS chapter 5:19 tells us!

"By one mans DISOBEDIENCE many were constituted sinners... By one mans OBEDIENCE the many will be consituted RIGHTOUS."

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// The law is not God ///

The Law is a PROJECTION of God's righteousness and holiness - it is a MIRROR, showing God's righteous standard.

/// The law came by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ they are not the same. ///

God in His "grace", GAVE us the Law, so that we should realise that we CANNOT attain to that perfection" required by God.

"By the Law is the knowledge of sin" (ROMANS 3:20).

The Law is the SCHOOLMASTER to lead us to Christ (GAL.3:24)

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// The law is not God ///

The Law is a PROJECTION of God's righteousness and holiness - it is a MIRROR, showing God's righteous standard.

/// The law came by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ they are not the same. ///

God in His "grace", GAVE us the Law, so that we should realise that we CANNOT attain to that perfection" required by God.

"By the Law is the knowledge of sin" (ROMANS 3:20).

The Law is the SCHOOLMASTER to lead us to Christ (GAL.3:24)

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// The law is not God ///

The Law is a PROJECTION of God's righteousness and holiness - it is a MIRROR, showing God's righteous standard.

/// The law came by Moses but grace and truth by Jesus Christ they are not the same. ///

God in His "grace", GAVE us the Law, so that we should realise that we CANNOT attain to that perfection" required by God.

"By the Law is the knowledge of sin" (ROMANS 3:20).

The Law is the SCHOOLMASTER to lead us to Christ (GAL.3:24)

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// You think God gave a righteousness by law ///

What does ROMANS 5:19 say?....

"By one man's OBEDIENCE, the many will be constituted righteous"???

Obedience to what? - THE LAW!

It is Christ's perfect "OBEDIENCE" that saves us - not OUR OWN obedience.

Clear?

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// God has given the righteousness of His Person which is not the law or any law ///

No God did not imputed His personal ATTRIBUTE of holiness/perfection to us, but rather what ROMANS 5:19 says.... Christ's earthly OBEDIENCE - His passive and active obedience.

Why do you think Christ said "I have not come to abolish, but TO FULFILL THE LAW"???

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// He will judge the world in righteousnes by the Man whom He has ordained Acts 17:31 not by law. ///

Yes - Christ will be the Judge - and the standard is God's Law, because the Law is a projection of the righteousness of God.

Thats why God says "He that DOETH ALL THAT THE LAW SAYS is righteous"

And the "doing" required is a PERFECT doing, not a "striving" to do.

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 I'm not twisting anything your saying no infused righteousnes I have God's Spirit which is all the righteousness of God. Your seperating Christ righteousness from the Holy Spirit.You see people just read alot of what past people have said assuming they must be right. Christ met the Nature of God in righteousnes in His death Not just the virtue of law and if you search deeper you will see God is not revealed in law but surpasses law's righteousness hence Chrsit

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 depraved man could not fulfill law and law was not God's Nature or righteousness. Christ exceeds law in Virtue and Attribute. Simply saying law never had anything to do with revealing God. Christ came to show God's excelling Nature. Christ did not come to say law of God is complete revelation .So His redeemed can have its righteousness? God gave His righteousness apart from law.But now the righteousness of God is revealed apart from law. Rom3:21

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// depraved man could not fulfill law ///

Thats correct - only the PERFECT man (Jesus Christ) could fulfill and obey the Law in full - and its HIS perfect fulfilling/obedience that saves us - not our "striving" to keep as much of it as we can - for "we can do nothing of ourselves".

/// and law was not God's Nature or righteousness ///

The Law is a PROJECTION of God's perfection/righteousness.

And God says "He that doeth all the Law shall be saved"

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Christ exceeds law in Virtue and Attribute. ///

Yes but its not His ATTRIBUTE of righteousness that saves us.... ROMANS 5:19 says that its His righteous OBEDIENCE that saves us.

I believe the Scriptures.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// Christ came to show God's excelling Nature. ///

Yes - by "obeying/fulfilling" the Law - procuring a perfect record of good works, that are imputed to our account and save us.

/// Christ did not come to say law of God is complete revelation .So His redeemed can have its righteousness? ///

Christ came as a man, born under the Law - why?, to FULFILL it, and perfectly obey it in full, on behalf of all who are "in Him" - aka, the elect.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// God gave His righteousness apart from law. But now the righteousness of God is revealed apart from law. Rom3:21 ///

ROMANS 3:21 is talking about the "human STRIVING of trying to keep the Law".

Also, "The righteousness of God" is also "The righteousness THAT IS GIVEN BY God [as a gift]" - the perfect record of good works that was procured by Christ and His perfect "Obedience", as ROMANS 5:19 says.

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 Rom 3: 21 The righteousnes of God revealed apart from the law beiing wittnessed by law and prophets, they could not reveal God's transferred righteousness

[polopowers1]

@doctorh2005 What school did I come from..? That one statement proves to me you are a man of law not grace, you are self righteous and unteachable.To dis agree is fine but to challenge me personally is childish. I'm glad I have the righteousness of God apart from law And I clearly see you have it

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// What school did I come from..? That one statement proves to me you are a man of law not grace ///

Not it doesnt, it means that I "can't understand what you are typing" or "what you are trying to say"!

/// you are self righteous ///

On the contrary - YOU are the self righteous one, because you deny the perfect record of righteous works that Christ procured on our behalf as the ONLY ground of salvation.

You teach that we are saved by OUR good works, not HIS.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// would that mean we are saved by works of law? ///

The only "works" that save us, are those works which the Lord Jesus Christ wrought during His perfect life of obedience, not ours.

Christ's perfect record of rightousness was imputed to the elect - and the sins of the elect were imputed to His account.

None of our works in our lifetime contribute ANYTHING whatsoever to our standing before God - indeed, they could not - not even after we become saved through faith alone.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

/// are you saying God's Holy Character is equal to the law.? ///

The Law of God is a reflection of His Holiness yes - and the standard of judgment.

Only Jesus Christ was able to fulfill the Law completely and perfectly - and its only HIS obedience that saves - not ours, for we are imperfect, and were already condemned by the sin of Adam (Original Sin).

[polopowers1]

The faith of justification is from fruit of His Spirit. There is no pre virtue to faith.The righteousness of Christ is in new Nature given. Therefore, righteousness is infused and imputed.Christ obedience was not satisfaction. His obedience proved He could not dis obey. He did not obey to make blood precious.Christ was born fully righteous He gained no righteousness by obeying law.The law of sin and death had no effect upon Christ.God accepted the blood of Christ from a righteous man of birth.

[doctorh2005]

@polopowers1

No, Christ's righteousness is not "infused" at all.

His righteousness is "imputed" to the account of His elect, in the same way as Adam's guilt and condemnation was imputed to all humanity.

Christ's obedience WAS satisfaction - it satisfied completely the "demands of the Law",

Christ didnt "gain" any more righteousness to Himself - but he PROCURED a perfect record of good works, which are then imputed to His elect.

Christ "became a curse, for us", in our place.

[nannykim1]

It is interesting to compare your causes of Justification with The Council of Trent in session 6 chapter 7. However I couldn't find the video you were responding to---I think it has been deleted.

[nannykim1]

It is interesting to compare your causes of Justification with The Council of Trent in session 6 chapter 7.

[TheologyChannel]

Correction - Thank you, not thanks you.

[TheologyChannel]

I enjoyed your video. Keep them coming. I am looking forward to the one in the works on "Lordship Salvation." No pun intended...well maybe just a little. Thanks you for your videos!

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

You didn't actually respond to my video.

LOL.

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

Yes I did - the four definitions of "cause" and the distinction between "passive/active" obedience completely annihilate your accusation.

The question you asked was "Are you saying that we are justified beCAUSE God has wrought in us this obedience".

And the answer is... "INSTRUMENTALLY".

A.W.Pink, Calvin and the Puritans all CLEARLY testify that "faith" (which is a passive OBEDIENCE "wrought in us by God") is the INSTRUMENTAL/APPLYING CAUSE of us being justified.

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 Your response to another conversation.

You didn't actually respond to my video.

As a refutation you should be able to take my question and your response and explain how you did not affirm infused righteousness.

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

What is faith?

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

/// What is faith? ///

“faith is the apprehender and receiver of [the righteousness of Christ]” (A.W.PINK)

“Faith is the one link between the sinner and the Saviour" (A.W.Pink)

“[Faith is] an[ extended] empty hand, to receive everything from Christ for nothing.” (A.W.Pink)

“ It is not faith as a spiritual grace which justifies us, but as an instrument—the hand which lays hold of Christ.” (A.W.Pink)

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

/// What is faith? ///

“faith[ is] nothing more and nothing else than the renunciation of all virtue and strength in [self], and a hanging in childlike trust upon God for what He [is] able and willing to do.

— A.W.Pink

“We are justified by faith, and not for faith; not because of what faith is, but because of WHAT IT RECEIVES.”

— A.W.Pink

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 Those are all discriptions. Not definitions.

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" (Heb. 11:1). Faith should be understood as synonymous with implicit "trust" in something. Faith is a divine gift (Rom. 12:3) and comes by hearing the Word of God (Rom. 10:17). It is the means by which the grace of God is accounted to the believer who trusts in the work of Jesus on the cross (Eph. 2:8).

I think thats a pretty basic summary of it.

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 Those are still discriptions and/or synonyms. What IS faith though.

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

Wayne Grudem defines it as "trust in Jesus Christ as a living person for forgiveness of sins and for eternal life with God" [Systematic Theology]

Louis Berkhof says "it denotes (a) a conviction based on confidence in a person and in his testimony, which as such is distinguished from knowledge resting on personal investigation; and (b) the confidence itself on which such a conviction rests......

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 Wayne Grudem obviously doesn't know how to define words. You can't use synonyms to define. The same goes with Louis Berkhof. Wayne and Louis used the term trust in their "definition" thus making it no definition at all. Clark was right when he showed in his book "Faith and Saving Faith" that not many theologians actually care to define what faith is. If they did they wouldn't contradict themselves or mix faith and works.

If faith is not intellectual assent, what is it?

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

///You can't use synonyms to define.///

Yes you can. I'm an english teacher.

/// If faith is not intellectual assent, what is it? ///

You're refering to the heresy od Sandemanianism, of which RedBeetle is guilty of. It is the foundation for DECISIONISM, EASY BELIEVISM, and ANTINOMIANISM. RedBeetle is dead wrong on this point, vastly departing from Reformed/Calvinist/Scriptural teaching

Saving faith is a "repentant" faith - see the following - watch?v=HMXlOW70qiA

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 "///You can't use synonyms to define.///

Yes you can. I'm an english teacher."

LOL! Dog - a four legged canine

That is quite a definition! LOL!

Also you being an English teacher does not imply anything logically. LOL!

Maybe you should learn Logic and then use your english skills!

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

/// LOL! Dog - a four legged canine That is quite a definition! LOL! ///

lol... If you know what a canine is then that makes perfect sense.

Synonyms can be quite useful for clarity.

[ObeyTheGospelOrDie]

@doctorh2005 Being useful for clarity is not a definition; it is a description. As was already stated.

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

/// If faith is not intellectual assent, what is it? ///

Calvin denied the word ‘faith’ to mere intellectual assent but did not deny that

such an assent exists...it is but one aspect... What saves you when you jump out of a plane?... it is mere "intellectual assent" that the parachute is a good parachute and can save a human's life?, or is it the fact that you've PUT IT ON?

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

PART (1)

"But faith is not to be seen as merely intellectual assent. (Institutes 3:2:8-10,33)

It is more than an acceptance of the veracity of the Gospel accounts. It is more than sound doctrine. These are all important but faith also includes the personal element. It is the knowledge of MY salvation, not just the knowledge that Christ is the Saviour of the world. It is the knowledge of God as MY Father.....

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

PART (2)

....Faith is not just an opinion or a persuasion but rather a personal confidence in the mercy of God. Faith involves not just the mind but also the heart. It is not enough for the mind to be illumined, the heart must also be strengthened and supported. Faith is not just the assent of the MIND but also confidence and security of HEART....

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

PART (3)

...Indeed the chief part of faith is firm and stable constancy of heart. Calvin objects to the

Catholic idea of faith as "mere intellectual assent" by pointing out that assent ‘is more a matter

of the HEART than the HEAD, of the affection than the intellect’....

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

PART (4)

....Calvin can even stated that the "seat" of faith is not in the BRAIN but in the HEART. Faith involves the feelings and affections of the heart as well as the intellect. Faith does not just believe the promises of God but also

relies on them, thus bringing confidence and boldness."

[A. N. S. LANE]

[doctorh2005]

@ObeyTheGospelOrDie

PART 2

... "This is more than a mere intellectual conviction that a person is reliable; it presupposes a personal relation to the object of confidence, a going out of one's self, to rest in another.... a confiding trust in God or, more particularly, in Christ with a view to redemption from sin and to future blessedness... yielding to Christ and trusting in Him for the salvation of the soul." [Louis Berkhof - Systematic Theology]

[MustardSeedish]

I thought ObeyTheGospelOrDie was a sock account. I could be wrong. Good video response.

[mrjoshua1414]

A good response bro

[SkiesVibrant]

God Bless my Christian Brother. You can explain Lordship Salvation a zillion times, but these folks simply will not see anything but works. Sad, because works aren't part of Lordship Salvation. Drawing closer to God and a constant reevaluation of our lives should be the result of our salvation, not a condition of it.

[theocratickingdom30]

A Romans Catholic who loves Calvin's "Institutes"? LOL.

[doctorh2005]

@theocratickingdom30

haha good point :P