Kel-Tec PLR-16 Bump Fire - First Attempt

[raiderncpit]

you can tell the recoil kicks like crazzy with that barrel

[yummyvoo]

Wow that's a big scope for a pistol guess it must help with the recoil for bump firing.

[Liberty4Ever]

@yummyvoo Nah, I was just screwing around with that big scope, shooting off the bench as the world's shortest bench rest target rifle! :-)

The PLR-16 is surprisingly accurate from a solid rest!

And it's easier to bump fire than a 6mm bench rest bolt action rifle! :-)

Usually, the PLR-16 has an EOTech holographic sight.

[JimBoopLoop]

why do you have a sniper scope on a keltec pistol?

[GRANDETRACK]

I don't understand why people bump fire in that position, all I do is use my left grip and pull forward, and use my right index finger to lightly squeeze. I get that inertia just fine, I think people should relax, its not that complex.

[Liberty4Ever]

@GRANDETRACK Some weapons are much easier to bump fire than others. Having a stiff trigger finger (or thumb) can help with the bumpin'. I was trying to hook my thumb in my pants pocket, or maybe I was sticking my finger through the trigger guard and into the corner of the opening on my pants pocket. The idea is to use the mass of my body to anchor whatever is activating the trigger so the weapon can recoil and bounce back and forth around a relatively fixed point.

[ZuluComander]

is the plr16 upper and lower receiver's interchangeable with the su16

[Liberty4Ever]

I answered this on my other video where you just asked the same question.

Basically, it's technically possible, but you are creating a Short Barrel Rifle and it's ten years in federal prison if you don't dot the i's and cross the t's and pay the feds their $200.

Don't assume that if it's technically possible, it's legally OK.

[ZuluComander]

@Liberty4Ever thanks for the double answer im well aware of the legality limits of a SBR im willing to go through all the paper work and give the ATF 200$ for something that awsome. and it would be great to give them another 200 for a full auto conversion. and i live in Utah most things to deal with guns or knives is legal so im all set there

[JILampropoulos]

The second amendment today applies to hunting.

[gravediggmn]

quit spewing this kinda shit around

[jimbobob1864a]

what was the point of that?

[Liberty4Ever]

Just playing around.

Play can be educational.  Next time it snows, go to an empty parking lot and play around locking up the brakes and skidding. Learn to control your car in a different operating mode. It contributes to your safety.

I don't bump fire often (or I'd be a lot better at it!) but learning to bump fire can teach us a little more about how our semiautomatic firearms operate. It's not an incredibly useful skill, but hey, it's a free country, for at least a little while longer.

[fenderketchup]

I've heard that vert. grips that quick install on a picatinny rail are fine, just ones like the MP5K, where the front grip is part of the gun, are AOW's

[Liberty4Ever]

The BATFE isn't the most forthcoming with interpretations and they don't make it easy to understand the laws, and even more significantly, their interpretation of the laws and their rules.

I've talked to a lot of people who know guns, and they agree that ANY vertical grip on a pistol is considered an Any Other Weapon and requires a $200 tax stamp, federal paperwork, approval from your local sheriff, etc.

[grilledwhatulike]

hey is that a stock trigger group? 7.5lb?

[Liberty4Ever]

Yes, I still have the stock trigger. I measured the pull but I can't remember. 7.5 pounds is in the ballpark. It's not a very good trigger pull. It's a little heavy, but worse, it's not very smooth and the plastic trigger bends. I know a guy who does a trigger job for about $40 (including return shipping). He keeps all the stock parts but polishes and very slightly reshapes them to make a much nicer trigger pull. I need to send him my PLR-16 and SU-16E.

[grilledwhatulike]

damn plastic trigger???? you need to go to midway! thats a nice price on the trigger job, i hope with my machining skills i could do my own honing, but i'm nothing to a pro. thanks

[PJThatOthersMayLive]

The AOW tax stamp is $5.00

The other NFA tax stamps are $200.

[Liberty4Ever]

You're thinking of the AOW transfer tax, not the tax on manufacturing an AOW.

"In order for a non-licensed individual to build an AOW, it requires the same $200 tax as any NFA weapon. However, the tax to transfer an AOW is only $5"

elite-tactical-DOT-com/aow.htm­l

[PJThatOthersMayLive]

Cool, thanks for the clarification. I've bought 2 AOW's, but never built one.

[Liist]

That thing looks dangerous with the short foregrip, I can imagine a person slip and put his hand in front of the muzzle when the next shot goes off.

[ChristopherKnittel]

That's true, about the vertical fore-grip. I just sold a pre-ban Intratec Tec 9, two weeks ago. It's classified as an assault pistol, and the Feds make it clear you can not put a fore-grip on a pistol, unless you pay the tax. The broom stick for this particular gun attached to the barrel extension, which you could screw on and off the threaded barrel.

[jr9950]

philtv37, you are spewing things that you have not a clue about. You cannot have a vertical fore-grip added to a pistol. Any pistol can have a horizontal fore-grip, so you are wrong there as well. Look at any AK pistol. They are not AOWs because they all have a fore grip, as none require an NFA stamp. Call your police dept and ask for the answer.

[nmclay]

DO NOT call your police department. They know little to nothing and have no compunction about lying to you or misleading you. Do your own reserach.

[philtv37]

People can assemble what seem to be mechanically sound and appropriate parts. That does not make it correct. Even though there is no specific law or paperwork for a particular weapon, it is better to err on the side of being legal. Gambling is better left to those who have inexhaustible legal resources.

[nearadyn]

Cool video, Liberty! I have tried bump firing my PLR and just can't do it. Trigger is a bit heavy on the PLR I think. I have no problems doing that with my AR-15 though. I wish I knew enough about gunsmithing to (safely) file down my PLR's trigger a bit.

[Liberty4Ever]

My PLR-16 trigger is heavy too, hence the crummy first bump fire attempt. I've done better. Other PLR-16s are easier to bump fire. I'm going to send my PLR-16 trigger assembly to Bill Springfield. Let me know if you want the address. For $35, including shipping, he does a good trigger job that's safe and effective. I bet it'll bump a lot better after that.

[Liberty4Ever]

I warned my brother when I saw his hand straying close to the muzzle, and I was more mindful myself after that. I'm active on a forum for PLR-16 shooters at KTOG dot org and I've never heard of anyone hurt by allowing their hand to move too far forward, but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

[philtv37]

If you are worried about your hand, buy the kel-tec fore end and install a vertical grip on it. I was amazed at the increase in control and accuracy. I can hit a paper plate all day at 100yrds with the PLR (off-hand with holographic sight).

[Liberty4Ever]

I have the Kel-Tec forend. I'd consider it almost a necessity to avoid burning my hand on the barrel or gas tube, but also for shooting comfort. I have a vertical foregrip. If I put it on the PLR-16 pistol, it becomes an Any Other Weapon (AOW) by BATFE terminology. To legally add the VFG requires a $200 tax stamp for manufacturing an AOW. Stupid, but it's the law.

[philtv37]

I talked to the dealer I use to buy my stuff. I told him about the AOW vertical grip issue since I don't want to end up in federal prison. He told me that if there is a butt-stock placed on the weapon it will make it illegal. He asked me to show him something in writing about the forward grip making it a class III weapon. Do you know where I can look to find the BATFE law?

[philtv37]

Unless the 2007 law is any different from the 2005 law it is acceptable to add the grip. The weapon is not fired from the shoulder. A buttstock on a pistol other than a Mauser Broomhandle would be an NFA firearm. This is not the case with the PLR. It is a pistol with rifled bore without a stock, not fired from the shoulder.

[Liberty4Ever]

Adding a butt stock to a pistol makes it a short barrel rifle (SBR, $200). Adding a vertical foregrip (VFG) to a pistol makes it an Any Other Weapon (AOW, $200). Adding a VFG to a rifle is OK (sounds like you have the BATFE stuff backwards). If you want both, pay $200 to SBR it with a butt stock and then you can add the VFG if you like. Check out the PLR-16 section of KTOG dot ORG for the legal details.

[philtv37]

1st.- I don't have anything backwards.

2nd.- No dealer I spoke with had anything in writing on the PLR-16, only the HK SP89 with MP-5 grip.

3rd.- Any pistol with more than one grip(Kel-Tec fore-end) is an AOW even without the VFG.

[Liberty4Ever]

Believe whatever you like, even if it disagrees with numerous very knowledgeable people on the Kel-Tec Owners Group (KTOG dot ORG) and Kel-Tec's statements about the PLR-16 they designed, manufacture and sell. If you want cited references from the BATFE, I again urge you to go to KTOG dot ORG, click on the PLR-16 forum and read the recent topic, and follow the links.

[philtv37]

I will not and have not ever assembled a weapon in violation of BATFE or NFA regulations. There is no VFG on my PLR-16. I needed to know if the people posting actually knew the law. No one has difinative proof, not even class III dealers I contacted.

[philtv37]

Only one dealer actually stated that the VFG makes the PLR an AOW. Most did not know or had no paperwork from the BATFE. As law enforcement says, ignorance of the law is no excuse. Dealer quote- "you don't want to be the first person to find out this is illegal."

[Liberty4Ever]

Dealer quote- "you don't want to be the first person to find out this is illegal."

That's why I posted a reply. I didn't want someone reading, "Unless the 2007 law is any different from the 2005 law it is acceptable to add the grip" and think they could put the VFG on a PLR and not pay the tax and file the paperwork. I think it's a stupid law (like many gun laws), but we should work to repeal bad laws, and not disregard the ones we don't like.

[yeobondo]

So how is morehead range. Thanks for letting me try your kel tec's On memorial day

[Liberty4Ever]

Nice meeting you today. I'm so dog tired, it took me almost a minute to figure out who you were. Brain not working. I love the Clear Creek Range. The only way it'd be better for me would be a reasonably priced annual fee and closer to Lexington.

[gandb21]

sounds like you boys are from NC