1964 Pontiac GTO Royal Bobcat

[hladydoug]

Thanks GM.

[SuperFamousSeamus]

And if you want to include the Z-11 Chevrolet of which 57 were built I'll throw in the Ford Thunderbolt that exceeded 100.

[SuperFamousSeamus]

The truth be known, the sound effects on the Beach Boys "409" came from a Ford 390 Solid Lifter engine.

[MrSmithm31]

@SuperFamousSeamus According to a Brian Wilson interview a couple years ago the engine sounds on "409" were made out in front of Brian's house by a local DJ's 60 Impala with a 348. Brian states in the interview that the neighbors called the police. He states he was running along side the car with a hand held tape recorder.

[SuperFamousSeamus]

@MrSmithm31 Hey, us Smith's are supposed to stick together.. I am looking for the information regarding it being a Ford. Brian, as you well know, has had a tough life and may not remember things exactly correct. I distinctly remember them making a joke out of the fact that not only was it not a 409 but that it was a Ford.

[V8Deuce]

@MrSmithm31 Wrong. The sound was recorded out on the paring lot at Capitol records . And the sound came from a Ford ! Get your story straight

[vividwatch47]

@V8Deuce, I believe you were going to say "parking lot". If the sound came from a Ford, why does the song refer to a Chevrolet engine? Who's got the story straight?

[V8Deuce]

@vividwatch47 Because the song was written before they went to the studio. During the studio sessions the producers decided to add more flare to the intro of the song by having a car sound (very popular at the time) thus they went out to the parking lot because a staff member at Capitol owned a 406 Ford . Good enough, no one will no the difference. And no one would care! Who's got the story straight? I do numb nuts. I was one of the staff members at Capitol from 1959-1966

[1981qrycher]

GTO was the first musclecar. That being a big, full-sized car engine in a mid-sized sedan. The Impala 409 and 421 Bonnevilles were movers but by no means a musclecar.

I think of it like this: Consider a '09-10 Pontiac G8 GXP along the lines of the 421 Bonneville(big car, big motor, but not a musclecar) and 05-06 GTO along the lines of the original GTO(big motor + mid-sized sedan=musclecar).

[summitdrinker]

@1981qrycher Lets not forget the Mopar B bodies, down sized full sized, with big block power including 426 max wedge. were they the first muscle cars? many say no since the big engines were not standard and were optional. but they were not that big and didn't weight 2 tons.

[MrRightwingextreme]

There is no doubt that there were MANY screamers back in the 60's but the GTO is considered the first muscle car because by definition it is the first with a large cubic inch engine in a mid-size body. I would never take away from all the beautiful and fast cars of the 60's, I love them all !

[1981qrycher]

@MrRightwingextreme -- wow, we basically posted the same comment at the same time lol....

[corvettegeorge79]

My experience with Pontiac was that every time you twisted it's tale you felt like you were on borrowed time.

[31chevyae]

one letter two numbers Z--11

[DYNO323]

nice car =)

i like the 64 royal bobcat better though

[linda0097]

Well my husband has a 1964 and took the 389 out storing it in the gargage and installed a 428 pontiac engine in it to race bring your 409 to the kci raceway and get beat okdokie

[linda0097]

and by the way ever heard the song little gto lets not for get it . btw the 409 performed poorly as it had a longer stroke and leaked oil just like its smaller version the 348 good day

[CrudeDude]

linda0097 said

" btw the 409 performed poorly as it had a longer stroke and leaked oil just like its smaller version the 348 good day

******************************­****************

If a longer stroke made the Chevrolet 409 "perform poorly" that would explain why the Pontiac 428 is such a dog. The 409 has a 3.50" stroke. The boat anchor Pontiac 428 has a 4" stroke.

[starchief59]

Longer stroke makes more torque. In a 4000lb car you don't need to rev the motor to 6K to make lots of HP to get it to move. You need that low end torque from the longer stroke to get that big boat rolling. A 421 Pontiac would run circles around a 409 all day long. And no a 427 would not stand a chance against a 421 either. The only thing that ran with the 421s back in the day were the Wedge 426 MOPARS

[CrudeDude]

starchief59 said;

'"And no a 427 would not stand a chance against a 421 either."

Thats a laughable statement. Tell that to Hayden Proffitt, Dave Strickland, Jenkins and all the other guys I raced with...and against. The 421 was fast...for a Pontiac, but no 421 ever held an NHRA Stock, SuperStock or AFX record and that includes your worshipped Beswick. BTDT @ Fremont

[SuperFamousSeamus]

@CrudeDude They most certainly did hold NHRA records and mine ran on the national record. One thing that can not be disputed is that box stock off the lot nothing ran as well as a Pontiac.. All the others required headers, super tuning and in the case of the 409 a good set of valve springs.

[SuperFamousSeamus]

@linda0097 Actually Linda the Crude Dude is right on the dimensions. The 409 was king of the dragstrip because of it's shorter stroke but it was useless on the top end. On the other hand, the Pontiac Super Duty 389 and 421 ruled NASCAR from '59 thru '63. In fact when Chrysler was working on the "new" hemi 426 the CEO told the engineers he was only concerned with one thing - would it beat the Pontiacs. That came from a Chrysler interview.

[CrudeDude]

A stock, original, dual quad, flat tappet, 4 speed 409 in a Biscayne 2 door sedan would SHIT on your sorry ass, hydraulic lifter 428 Pontiac. And a 427 Chevrolet would anihilate it.

Turn it on

Wind it out

Blow it up

GTO

[vividwatch47]

As far as I'm concerned, the first true muscle car was the 1961 Chevrolet Impala S.S.409 hardtop coupe. Never mind that the G.T.O. was geared toward a youth oriented audience. Isn't anybody forgetting that the song "409" was recorded by the Beach Boys (who does musical car fanatics they think they were, middle aged rejects?)

[goodguy309]

@vividwatch47 I'd have to agree. The 409 was first.

Even before the GTO were 421 Bonnevilles which were also screamers.

[V8Deuce]

@vividwatch47 Then lets not forget the 61 Super Duty Pontiac bubble top. Arnie "The Farmer" Beswick beat Dyno Don Nicholson 8 out of 10 times with one of these beasts back when these Detroit stormers were new.  "She's real fine my 389 & 421" !

[dajudge1969]

Love finding the original Royal Bobcat cars

[1Bandit455]

Nice.

[pbertpaul]

does anyone know if there is anyway to get a bobcat treatment now?

I have a goat (not for sale) that I'd love to get that done to.

thanks!

[frydaytomato]

Dad's was the same color , with a aqua marine interior . He street raced a lot , and would start with the shifter in 2nd and dump the clutch . It could fry the tires for a good block .I think the only other local car that beat him was a 65 goat ..

[dale1966gto]

frydaytomato:

I while the '65 was larger and a bit heavier, the tri-power 389 had an extra 10 hp inderrated at 360. I had a friend with a '65 tri-power that was a spectacle in acceleration. It was so powerful and beastly that he almost had to ride the clutch through 1st gear to avoid too much traction breakage("peeling" out) and loosing e.t. The howl that tri-power produced was both awesome and eerie. This car was a medium "marina" blue with a white enterior. It was a hardtop and was stunning.

[CrudeDude]

He HAD to ride the clutch because the pathetic Red Line tires were so useless. And if he would have put some REAL rubber under that POS Pontiac it would have simply broken the BOP rear end. And that's exactly why they came with RedLines.

[puncht37]

Yeah, that`s it.

[ztwntyn8]

wow, what a find.

[haphit]

Tell me about the mirror on the fender.

[Frussel1]

It was an option on the 1964 GTO...remote mirror