John Zerzan: On Modernity & the Technosphere

[syl0116]

i love to hear him speak!

[elchippe]

i am against this modern techno-capitalism, but i believe in open source technology is the only way to save humanity

[FA8T]

You should never trust men with beards.

[TheeMalcontent]

@FA8T I have a beard and I'm the most trustworthy person I know. ;)

[newmoongathering]

I know so many people criticize this guy. But, he's right.

[silbitnuoc]

So tell me Mr. Zerzan when are you finally going to stop lecturing, move out into the jungle and start living like an ape the way you swear we all need to do? What? Never? I guess it it is one thing to preach and another to act, huh? Not to mention the fact you need technology to mail bombs.

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

If you were floating on a log in the middle of the sea, would you say that anyone who thinks that it's a good idea to abandon the log and try to swim towards and is a hypocrite because he relies on that very log for survival? I can understand people who have little patience for loudmouths and hypocrites, but have you ever considered that we simply don't have enough wilderness left for that may people to live off of, and it's slowly all being destroyed?

[silbitnuoc]

@WSWarthog As far as conservation of our wilderness is concerned I am 100% for saving it and I strongly believe in preserving animals as well. Zerzan is just like Ted Kazyenski, in fact he idolizes him. He thinks we should all go primative and his writings 'suggest' acheiving that aim by any means—i.e. uni-bomber. People like him say how great this or that would be but never do it themselves. he wants everyone to live primative. I will concede some of his essays are very intruiging.

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

Well I'll square with you my friend, I'm no fan of civilization either and in that sense I'm on the same side as Zerzan and Kaczynski. BUT I do also agree with you that it is not enough to preach from a nice comfortable chair to the rest of the world that they should live without comforts that you yourself can't let go of and in that sense you would expect people like Zerzan to practice some degree of asceticism.

[silbitnuoc]

@WSWarthog You are entitled to that opinion. Kaczynski is a coward and a mental reject. There is nothoing to idiolize there. I suppose it is the same as some men who think Jack the Ripper was a swell guy because they despise women. At least Zerzan is intelligent and writes decent literature, I have read many of his books. I just finished Twillight of the Machines recently. The real probelm with society in my opinion is economic greed. We need to get past the need for money.

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

Even if we "get past the need for money" people will still be slaves to the system, they will still be emotionally caged and divorced from their natural mode of life, and they will still pose a serious threat to the ecological well-being of life on earth.

[silbitnuoc]

@WSWarthog The natural mode of life for humans greatly differs from all other species. Man has enough intelligence to recognize his errors and correct them. right now, that seems impossible, but many people are fighting for the enviroment and more are joining all the time. I am certainly for limiting certain things commercial and techno, but we need to develop people with strong emotional intelligence. Our society does not teach people morals or interpersonal skills.

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

Why does it differ greatly from all other species? Most of us don't question the system of life we live in, we are simply born into it and accept it out of complacency. We may bicker over the details but the foundations are treated as sacred, questioning it is taboo. This isn't "intelligence", it is the exact opposite.

Furthermore, "developing people with strong emotional intelligence"/teaching people interpersonal skills is simply a veiled way of saying that people need to be..

[WSWarthog]

@WSWarthog

...adapted to the needs of the system. We have a bunch of passions, desires, needs and motivations which threatens the harmonious functioning of the system and thus these need to be destroyed for the system's sake. Clearly then the system does not work in the interest of the people, but vice versa.

[silbitnuoc]

@WSWarthog The only way to do that is exterminating the human race. If your that down on people that is the only solution; however, I am certain you would not wish to apply that logic to yourself?

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

I believe that is an overly pessimistic and simplistic view of the situation. The human race doesn't need to be exterminated, we just have to ensure that once the system is destroyed the human race wouldn't be capable of re-industrializing (which already seems clear because most if not almost all of the easily accesible natural resources necessary for industrialization have already been burned through).

[silbitnuoc]

@WSWarthog It sounds exactly like what Zerzan and anarcho-primatives want, from what I read. All sounds to me like the early x-tians who were so down on the human race they couldn't wait to die. But that is a matter of free choice. The only problem I have with anarcho-primatives is their desire to impose it on all of us who don't want it. That is also the foundations of the 'system' they preach against.

[nikkinomad]

@silbitnuoc I think the part of the analysis that you seem to be missing is the fact that if this society carrys on as it is collapse is inevitable if it hasnt already begun. Also your looking at it from the perspective of the dominant culture that claims that uncivilised cultures are less than ours. Are you aware that when America was colonised many a european defected to join the natives? No natives voluntarily took on the colonisers way of life.

[WSWarthog]

@silbitnuoc

But that being said, I don't believe we should all necessarily go "primitive", I think agrarian life suits humans well.

[stett99]

global warming my ass come to canada

[roserh6]

primitivism is fascism. it is nothing more than an unattainable religious ideal that leads to apathy, anti-intellectualism, anti-individualism and nihilistic bourgeois decadence.

"Reactionary concepts plus revolutionary emotion result in fascist mentality." -Wilhelm Reich

[Antiks72]

It seems to me that tech and civilization is evolving in ways that evolutionarily we are not yet set to deal with. The pace of life is faster and faster. Years ago I spoke with an east Indian farmer from Punjab India. I asked him what the hardest thing to get used to was after coming to America. He told me it was the "pace" here. Interesting.

[Antiks72]

I really do sympathize with his viewpoint. I went ballistic in my last job as a computer tech. Stress, stress, and more stress.

[MrEddievanhalo]

I really like John Zerzan, I listen to him alot. I just read an article online that the Boston Globe published where science has discovered how bad city life is for peoples physical and especially mental health. I'm finding more articles like this. The system will come down soon!

[silbitnuoc]

@MrEddievanhalo True, and I have read Zerzan's essays, and he has some good points, but he thinks all civilization is bad. He says we should just be hunter gatherers without even a spoken language. What humans need is balance and responsibility. Ulitmately his pipe dream is a refusal of responsibility, just an escapist viewpoint.

[MrEddievanhalo]

I agree with you. I'm not 100% Anti- civilization, but it's this industrial civilization of money, greed, power, and growth that is the real problem.

[silbitnuoc]

Absolutely, we need a major revision of society and hopefully an evolutionary step towards a better one.

[urbanhag]

@ the last statement in the video: correlation is not causation.

[nestorlovesguitar]

yes dude, but what if there is astonishing correlation? Further research could prove that industrialization is not the leading cause of g warming. But given the complexity of the problem and the many variables that are included, you are clearly prompted to say it is, even if only basing your ideas on statistical treatment and a little common sense. I agree that correlation is not causation in hardcore logic, but sometimes sticking to logic and formalism doens't get us anywhere

[newmoongathering]

I'd like to hear what John Zerzan thinks of "mental illness," and psychiatry since the pharmaceutical companies privatized the prison system. We have a therapeutic State, that rations out poison. I wouldnt be surprised if that guy was on antidepressants.

[newmoongathering]

yeah i like him.

[breakitupquick]

zerzan is great

[dnHooligan]

i got a lot of respect for this guy.