The rule book says she must start her arm motion forward when she leaves the rubber. The first girl has great leg drive and actually the only mechanical flaw is she is to far forward with her front shoulder. If she drops her back shoulder and raises her front shoulder she would throw even harder.
First one not illegle remains in contact with the ground. Second one legal except for the push foot coming off the ground at times. I disagree that the first girl replants she strides out and her toes remains in contact with the ground. That is all that is required. She never does establish a new push point which would make her illegal.
All that I can see is illegal for crow hop on the 1st pitcher. She has established a new push point before the ball is released. Textbook. The 2nd pitcher had a few leaps and didn't start with both feet on the rubber, but some appeared to be ok by the drag.
first one has a crow hop. she replants before she releases. illegal. The ither girl has a foot drag, but before that she has a foot off the rubber behind her. illegal.
I dont think it is illigal because I play softball and I asked my couch if it was illigal and she said no and a girl does it on my team and the dont say nothing to her about it.
You always have to remember these youngsters are learning. If the foot is in the air over a hole (even shallow) but still "dragging" level with the plane of the ground and contacts the ground on the other side of the hole in a level flight with no upward movement, the pitch is legal. Even if it is an illegal pitch the ump has to believe it made a substantial diff. in speed. Leave the kids alone and let them play.They will learn it right. It's hard enough to learn w/o parental bickering.
The white, not illegal. The girl in the red does leap, illegal. Leaps are hard to call sometimes because it is so quick. Easy to see on video when freeze frame. The girl in the white is dragging. A crow hop would be a push, that is a kick drag. She is leaning, which is bad not only mechanically but overall for her back. Good luck!
Girl is white is illegal....she does drag off the plate, but she replants about two feet in front and pushes from there for her pitch. Easy to see with the motion of her pivot foot. The gril in red leaps off a little on the first pitch and even less on the following. Some posters are correct, depending on the age or level of the tourney whether the pitch would be called or just brought to the coaches attention. Umpire crews are different.
a crow hop is when she replants her foot then pushes off from the newly established starting point. in other words she would have to first take a step forward with her right foot then pushes off from that point. a lot of people don't know the real meaning of a crow hop. i'm a coach and deal with this a lot, but in 10 and under the umpires aren't that picky so they don't call it often. with the leaping, that is when the pitcher is not in contact with the ground.
hmmmm, there were a couple times that both red & white would bring their foot up, replant & pitch. also, there were times when their foot would stay on the ground. nasty habit to get into. & the red pitcher didn't have both feet on the rubber. that is also illegal.
j. The pivot foot must remain in contact with the pitcher’s plate, or push off and drag away from the pitcher’s plate or be airborne prior to the stepping (non-pivot) foot touching the ground.
Note: It is legal to drag, leap or hop and then land and throw as long as the original push starts from the pitcher’s plate. It is not legal to step off with the pivot foot and then drag, leap or hop and throw.
@1sissyk shes not crow hopping :) its crow hopping if your back foot COMES OFF THE GROUND. watch it carefully :) it never does, im pretty sure i would know, im a pitcher on my highschool varsity team and has been pitching for 12 years and my friend crow hops and i watch her all the time and shes working on it right now :)
its not legal.. your not aloud to crowhop.. its illegal! ive played softball my whole life.. but most umps dont call it .. but the girl pitching in the video is illegal...
Thee first one was absolutely legal, that's what you're supposed to do and that's how you throw faster, is to make a very long stride, her back foot was on the ground, the second one didn't even start on the mound...that's illegal..hahaha
That's an illegal pitch if I ever saw one. Obviously, her foot comes off the ground and she replants and pushes again for more power. Your umpires are blind.
A hop is defined as giving a pitcher an advantage throughout the course of her wind-up during the time until she delivers the pitch. Her foot maintains contact with the ground throughout her wind-up, until after she releases the pitch. All she is doing, is repositioning herself into a position in which she can field a ball if hit to her.
She isn't hopping, that pitch is perfectly legal..
The one in the red is illegal not because of a crow hop (she does have a little one though so be careful it doesn't get bigger) but because her back foot is not touching the rubber before she starts the pitch, both feet HAVE to be on the rubber before youu start the pitch. I hope I helped :D
the girl in reds wieght is a forward motion however the girl in whites weight is on her pivot foot which constitutes an illeagle pitch, I would not call it however because she does drag off the rubber and does not leap
The girl in the white is leaping, her whole foot is coming up after. However, the girl in the red, is definitely crow hopping. Both of her feet are in the air at the same time. But it looks like the bag is too high up from the ground which may make it more difficult to drag. That's what I'm thinking
The girl girl has only a long drag on her foot but her foor stays planted and doesn't leave the ground, however, the second girl picks up her foot and replants therefore, the girl girl doesn't have a crow hop and the second one does. I konw what to look for, I am also a pitcher.
The one in the white: I cannot tell why her pitches are considered to be illegal. Although I do see her dipping while the pitch is being thrown, and that makes us think that she is crow hopping when she is not.
The one in the red: illegal. He doesn't have both of her feet on the rubber before pitching. And the skipping at the end is not illegal but it annoys me lol
White=illegal. Her sideways foot drag (parallel to rubber) is replanting for additional push. She's subtle, and good and masking it through her speed of motion, but obvious replant and push...so crow hop. Red=weird. No replant like white, but the leap at end is questionable on some.
they are both dragging their toe. however, the girl in the white needs not to dip. tell her to keep her head up "big and proud" she will become more accrate and faster
Not sure if this is exactly answering your question, but no umpire in his right mind is going to call either one of those girls for illegal pitches -- unless parents and fans want to see half of the pitches thrown in a softball game called illegal...fun, fun!!
@TheKyra1123 you don't have to drag it all the way just until she releases the ball wich they do. i always did the knee to knee thing it just seemed natural
The girl in the white is LEGALLY pitching, I am a softball pitcher myself and i know for a fact that the girl in the white is legally pitching while the girl in the red is replanting her foot at the end witch is not legal.
Both fairly legal. White leaps farther but throws late, hence the bent over posture @ release. Red leaps shorter but is standing straight up at ball snap. Red stops her forward movement sooner but the enertia causes her to hop after release just like some very famous pitchers we all know.
My 12 year old daughter pitched a championship game this weekend and the opposing team complained fiercely about her crow hopping (similar to the kid in the white). The 2nd base umpire told her she was legal and he would not call it. The opposing team continued to complain and the home plate umpire randomly called illegal pitches. With all the yelling my daughter was in tears but managed to continue pitching and won the game. However it ruined the experience. Something needs to be done.
@medigator I'm sorry to hear that. Some parents should be required to watch in a sound-proof room so they don't ruin the experience for the kids. In studying the rule book more closely and speaking with several other umpires I have come to the conclusion that white's (quick) replanting is illegal, has to be called by the field ump and is rarely called due to the quickness and subtelty of it.
There is a tendency for there to be a bit of a hole in front of the mound, but I believe, as long as the pitcher's foot does not come above the top of the hole, it's legal. I'm not sure where I heard that though.
The pitcher in the red is leaping off the ground, not crow hoping. But leaping is illegal in most leagues but the ISF just approved leaping for women. (leaping - both feet airborne at the same time) The pitcher needs to drag with the level ground, so if there is a hole at the mound the pitchers foot must drag at the start of the level dirt.
@stemcellsrock The "Leap" is not a pitch which promotes both feet off the ground at the same time. You are in error. It is actually known as the "Leap & Drag" method in Women's fastpitch..
I am in agreement with respect to the first pitcher NOT replanting. She does have a very long stride, but the push-off foot remains in contact with rubber/ground through her motion. The second pitcher -- intermittently -- does leap, wherein both feet are airborne. I had to review the videos several times frame-by-frame to be certain.
My opinion : Neither is even close to a crow hop. Hard to tell if the girl in red's back foot comes off the ground for a second (which is illegal but not a crow hop). Neither looks illegal to me. Sometimes the pitcher's plate is too high off the ground to start with which causes them to look like they come off the ground for a spit second. Both look good to me.
Actually there is nothing wrong with the girl in the whites pitching. In order for this to be a illegal crow hop her pivot foot would have to leave contact with the ground and it doesn't.
no because her feet do not actually leave the ground. and dragging ur feet isnt illegal as long as u dont go out side the pitching circle while ur pitching
I was taught by my pitching coach to drag my foot because it gives you more power and balance with a really poweful leg push like mine and hers. it's completely legal.
ASA rule 1: A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops or drags off the front foot of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus (or starting point), pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes delivery.
ASA Rule 6(3)(H) Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal. This includes the "crow hop" as defined under Rule 1.
The girl in white clearly replants the pivot foot. Illegal
@chaossoftball1 Not illegal. both pitchers drag and do not replant. the second pitcher hops at the end of her pitch which is legal. i dont see where she "clearly" replants at all.
@c12los It doesn't matter whether she drags her pivot foot or not, she cannot put weight on it before she puts weight on her stride foot. That is a crow hop. I can see it plain as day. If you can't and have video editing software, slow it down and you will clearly see it too. You will see her stride foot on the ground and her pivot foot in the air, thus she "pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes delivery". Clearly against the ASA rule. USSSA has the same rule.
I should clarify "it doesn't matter whether she drags her pivot foot or not". What I mean is it is possible to drag your pivot foot AND crow hop. Like the first girl is doing.
@chaossoftball1 not replanting in my opinion. both are not replanting. yes i would agree you could drag and replant but these girls are not. when you replant, you bear weight and pause quick on the replanted foot. both are not. these pitchers were probably not called illegal. just coaches upset because their batters were not hitting the ball.
@c12los If you'll slow the first girl down you see that her pivot foot is on the ground while her stride foot is in the air. That is bearing weight.. Umpires usually don't call it because most of them don't know the rule. Neither do most people, as judged a lot of the responses here. I agree that some coaches complain for no other reason than to get into the pitchers head. If I see a pitcher doing it in warm ups, I'll bring it to blue's attention. If he doesn't call it, oh well.
@chaossoftball1 now if you have to slow it down on any editing station to see it, an umpire will not call it. all umpires i have played with on the same field know this rule. younger ages will not be called. maybe 14u and up MAYBE get called. and you are right, umpires hardly ever call it. it has to be plain as day. a pitcher and coach could argue both styles.
Upon further investigating Red's release, it does appear that both feet leave the ground. The first time I looked at it, it appeared she was dragging her two the entire time, but it does appear that she leaps off with that foot before she drags her two. She definitely doesn't replant. White does replant before releasing the ball.
From what I can see and by the what I have heard and seen described as a crow hop, White is crowhopping, and red is not. Watching just the back foot for a replant is the key. White is replanting. Look at the 38 second mark and you will see her foot planted before release of the ball. Red does not replant, but her toe and only the toe drags on the ground, but does not replant.
Check out the video from Crow Hopping by Ontariofastpitch he gives an excellent differentiation between the two.
White-She is not replanting.She has a long stride,and she brings her whole body up a bit,but her push-off foot never leaves the ground
Red-It is illegal.I paused at 1:08,and she has both feet off the ground.This is what looks to put slowing her down.She is bringing all of her power up,and not towards the catcher
Hello!!! You are not allowed to replant and push off during the drag- it is illegal and gives the pitcher a speed advantage- just slow down the frames of the video with some selective pauses and you can CLEARLY see that she does that- her foot is turned flat, sole to the ground and is using that leverage to create additional force. At normal speed, you can suspect that because of the way she kicks up at the end
@solomanspaming You seem to have a lot of hate. Why not hate someone else or put down someone else that really cares about what you think. I am not going to lose any sleep tonight worrying about what you think or how you feel about me or any other Latter Day Saint.
Very difficult to throw strikes in softball. But the second pitcher looks illegal. The first pitcher looks illegal from far away, but gives a very good push.
according to ASA rules it is the act of replanting - whether off a leap OR a drag that is illegal- it doesn't matter whether she loses contact with the ground or not- she still turns her foot sole down and pushes off- that is illegal
@ajc1337 A leap is both feet in the air prior to the pitch. A leap is a replant of the pivot foot prior to the pitch. Neither pitcher is doing anything I can see legal
I think that the girl in white is pitching illegally- it has nothing to do with maintaining contact with the ground during her drag but the fact that she turns her foot flat and pushes off prior to delivery- its most obvious in the shots from the distance, The best way to cure the problem is to always keep the foot turned over so tha toe is always draggin-- just freeze frame the video and it is easy to see that the sole of her foot contacts the ground and she pushes off before releasing.
ASA Rules states it is an illegal pitch if there is a replant prior to the ball leaving the pitchers hand. The first girl in white is simply doing a drag, which is completely legal, because the rear foot never leaves the ground and simply turns over on the toe and drags. COMPLETELY LEGAL! The girl in red is replanting her foot after leaping from the rubber. ILLEGAL PITCH!
Unfortunately a lot of umpires are are not educated properly on this subject either...
There is no rule against coming out of the circle. The circle has no bearing on the pitch, only in regards to runners on base. A pitcher can go as close to the plate as they want, as long as it is done legally.
Both are illegal. The girl in white was taught to hide the replant with a drag. Establishing a second push point is not legal, even with a drag. The player in red is leaping with out question.
red is clean..clearly on the toe thru out the drag which if one has ever pitched will know that its impossiable to put any weight on the toe .white is crowhopping.contray to popular belief, the pivot foot doesnt not have to leave the ground to replant..called a crow drag..been around for years in the mens game. white never stay on the toe... replants on ball of foot, and then pushed hard..anytime a pitcher lands on ball of foot, it will bear weight which makes it impossiable to not push again.
The girl in the white is not actually "replanting" at all. In order to "replant" she would have to lose contact with the ground which she doesn't. A replant would be stepping with her right foot off the mound and then pitch the ball. This is also known as a "crow hop".
@76marc No problem. Update us this season with a video, I hope she improves! If she learns to keep her weight back she will throw very hard. Her stride should be about her body length. A little longer when she learns the Riseball and a little smaller when she learns the drop/change. Good LUCK!
@crzyswimmer53690 That is incorrect. A pitchers foot doesn't necessarily have to come off the ground to replant. She can drag, replant and throw the pitch which is a crow hop. If the foot comes off the mound and off the ground, that is called a leap. If she replants after the leap, then she has committed a leap and a crow hop. I see it all the time, leaps, crow hops and leaps followed by a crow hop.
She has a nice dragging position with her big toe down properly, she just needs to learn to keep dragging that way until she drags to her left ankle and then she can finish the pitch by squaring to the plate. This would allow her to throw harder and keep her hips at a 45-52 degree angle and would help her with learning breaking pitches. The girl in the red is leaping and it is because she has her feet in the wrong position on the rubber. Half of her right foot should be on the dirt.
white is not illegal. The "replant" that some are referring to has to do with her hips beginning to close in the motion. She doesn't actually lose contact with the dirt. However, I feel her stride is a little too long because she is leaning forward at the end of her pitch and not finishing her drag. She isn't able to push back off her left leg to get the most out of her pitch and keep her weight back. This will lead to slower pitching, back pain from bending over, and wild pitches.
the girl in the white is well was pitching legally probably not the best motion to have becuz theyr will most likely be a lot of debate but her backk foot clearly never leaves the ground the girrl in red is pitching ilegally (:
ASA - "A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the Front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus, pushes off from the newly-established starting point and and completes the delivery." USSSA - "A crow hop is the replanting of the pivot foot prior to delivery of the pitch."
Despite the girl's long drag, if she REPLANTS, she crow hops
IMHO white is illegal cause she replants- I think that she turns her foot flat at the end of the pitch to push off and kick up- she would not manage that kick up without the leverage from the replant, The second girl, while she hops a bit at the end, it seems she does it after release. Her foot is always turned with the toe down until she releases the ball so she is not replanting
I see no crow hop from WHITE or RED. The rule states that the pitch begins when the hands separate. Both pitchers were clearly into the delivery as the pivot foot dragged.
RED is in violation of having the non pivot foot behind the pitcher's plate prior to the pitch. Only NFHS allows this pitching style.
My next question is about when she plants her foot again to release. Is that considered a crow hop? Initiate, plant foot again and then release... crow hop?
@76marc i can see where that question would cause concern for the Red. but as for the white i would not say that aspect is a crow hope either. I just think that with her toe drag she has so much momentum that she has to do that after the plant. However I still dont think thats the case with the red either I am still going with her attempting the same style but the coordination is too big of a factor to make it look good.
both of them are illegal. the first pitcher it was reallly hard to tell cuz shes going so fast, you can barely see it tho, but the second pitcher was crow hopping, and you can see that easily.
legal,, pitcher #1. (no umps would call that illegal) if her weight was shifted back it would be a nice pitch and wouldn't look akward. She needs to keep her weight back on the fastball.
first pitcher long toe drag legal
second pitcher is crow hopping the foot is replanted
thomasstebbins01 1 month ago
The rule book says she must start her arm motion forward when she leaves the rubber. The first girl has great leg drive and actually the only mechanical flaw is she is to far forward with her front shoulder. If she drops her back shoulder and raises her front shoulder she would throw even harder.
rennis15 1 month ago
First one not illegle remains in contact with the ground. Second one legal except for the push foot coming off the ground at times. I disagree that the first girl replants she strides out and her toes remains in contact with the ground. That is all that is required. She never does establish a new push point which would make her illegal.
rennis15 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All that I can see is illegal for crow hop on the 1st pitcher. She has established a new push point before the ball is released. Textbook. The 2nd pitcher had a few leaps and didn't start with both feet on the rubber, but some appeared to be ok by the drag.
ocbroadband 1 month ago
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ocbroadband 1 month ago
first one; perfectly dragged
second one: completly illegal
kirasoftballandcheer 1 month ago
first one is a replant, second one is leaping
NorthTexan57 2 months ago
first one has a crow hop. she replants before she releases. illegal. The ither girl has a foot drag, but before that she has a foot off the rubber behind her. illegal.
sportzgurl2k1 2 months ago
@kaitie2k
Kaitie2k, you are WRONG! M O S T umps won't call it at this age level, or ANY age level, including high school and college.
frankredlands 2 months ago
@kaitie2k
frankredlands 2 months ago
Red for sure. Look where she starts her toe drag.
pitchr2 2 months ago
I dont think it is illigal because I play softball and I asked my couch if it was illigal and she said no and a girl does it on my team and the dont say nothing to her about it.
emoneekimbough 3 months ago
@emoneekimbough Remember, just because it isn't called, doesn't make it not illegal to do.
ocbroadband 1 month ago
illegal
Red does not start with both feet in contact with rubber and it looks like the foot still leaves the ground on push off.
thetrihouse 3 months ago
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thetrihouse 3 months ago
there was a girl that i played against and she did the same thing but worse and the umpire didnt even call it!!!
megant6 3 months ago
illegal
MuahLove13 3 months ago
You always have to remember these youngsters are learning. If the foot is in the air over a hole (even shallow) but still "dragging" level with the plane of the ground and contacts the ground on the other side of the hole in a level flight with no upward movement, the pitch is legal. Even if it is an illegal pitch the ump has to believe it made a substantial diff. in speed. Leave the kids alone and let them play.They will learn it right. It's hard enough to learn w/o parental bickering.
ChuckLetson 3 months ago
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96ILOVEMEXICANS 4 months ago
the girl in red is completely illegal. she hops and both feet need to be on the rubber before she pushes off
love4life365 4 months ago
The white, not illegal. The girl in the red does leap, illegal. Leaps are hard to call sometimes because it is so quick. Easy to see on video when freeze frame. The girl in the white is dragging. A crow hop would be a push, that is a kick drag. She is leaning, which is bad not only mechanically but overall for her back. Good luck!
stemcellsrock 4 months ago
this is not an illegal pitch. Her foot is on the ground the entire time.
rdpinkerman12 4 months ago
NO ITS NOT ILLEGAL GOOD JOB KID GRRR888 PITCHINGG
Softballgurly0625 4 months ago
Girl is white is illegal....she does drag off the plate, but she replants about two feet in front and pushes from there for her pitch. Easy to see with the motion of her pivot foot. The gril in red leaps off a little on the first pitch and even less on the following. Some posters are correct, depending on the age or level of the tourney whether the pitch would be called or just brought to the coaches attention. Umpire crews are different.
kysoftballump 5 months ago
its illegal if she lifts her foot before she release.
leeloosoftballchick 5 months ago
2nd Pitchers feet are not in contact with the pitchers plate. That is illegal as well ASA speaking.
coachjaimie 6 months ago
that is not crow hopping i am a pitcher myself that is leaping out and it is a legal pitching
STARSTATUzBBy 6 months ago
they both dragged there foot more times then they crow hopped and the crow hop was barely noticeable i had to vigourously watch it to see it happen
bigmike9681 6 months ago
1st pitcher-foot drag 2nd pitcher-crow hop
isabel91210 6 months ago
1st is not crowhopping but 2nd is duhhhhhhhhhhh
GeorgiaIntensity3 6 months ago
Xvfbxfg
breakfast4brunch 7 months ago
White is okkaa its kinda close for the girl in the white!! But the girl in the red its def a crow hop! Im ortty sure its illegal
breakfast4brunch 7 months ago
a crow hop is when she replants her foot then pushes off from the newly established starting point. in other words she would have to first take a step forward with her right foot then pushes off from that point. a lot of people don't know the real meaning of a crow hop. i'm a coach and deal with this a lot, but in 10 and under the umpires aren't that picky so they don't call it often. with the leaping, that is when the pitcher is not in contact with the ground.
aliaFaith 7 months ago
she drags her backfoot
Bubblepeace101 7 months ago
i thingk she is dragging watch 36 37 38
Bubblepeace101 7 months ago
all look legal to me
hayjamawas 7 months ago
hmmmm, there were a couple times that both red & white would bring their foot up, replant & pitch. also, there were times when their foot would stay on the ground. nasty habit to get into. & the red pitcher didn't have both feet on the rubber. that is also illegal.
ladydbacksplayer8 7 months ago
From the rule book:
j. The pivot foot must remain in contact with the pitcher’s plate, or push off and drag away from the pitcher’s plate or be airborne prior to the stepping (non-pivot) foot touching the ground.
Note: It is legal to drag, leap or hop and then land and throw as long as the original push starts from the pitcher’s plate. It is not legal to step off with the pivot foot and then drag, leap or hop and throw.
ihaveseoul 7 months ago
I'm a pitcher and I don't do that, I say its illegal! she is trying to get more power when she puts her foot back down. ILLEGAL.
210lolly 7 months ago
that is not a crow hop she didnt lift her back foot
beotch22utube 7 months ago
@1sissyk shes not crow hopping :) its crow hopping if your back foot COMES OFF THE GROUND. watch it carefully :) it never does, im pretty sure i would know, im a pitcher on my highschool varsity team and has been pitching for 12 years and my friend crow hops and i watch her all the time and shes working on it right now :)
xofastpitchxo231 7 months ago
its not legal.. your not aloud to crowhop.. its illegal! ive played softball my whole life.. but most umps dont call it .. but the girl pitching in the video is illegal...
1sissyk 7 months ago
Thee first one was absolutely legal, that's what you're supposed to do and that's how you throw faster, is to make a very long stride, her back foot was on the ground, the second one didn't even start on the mound...that's illegal..hahaha
xofastpitchxo231 7 months ago
@xofastpitchxo231 no its not !
thats crow hopping.. not legal.
1sissyk 7 months ago
That's an illegal pitch if I ever saw one. Obviously, her foot comes off the ground and she replants and pushes again for more power. Your umpires are blind.
MissSoftballer26 7 months ago
im a pitcher and no she is not cro- hopping she doing it perfecly fine
whooodatchick69 7 months ago
A hop is defined as giving a pitcher an advantage throughout the course of her wind-up during the time until she delivers the pitch. Her foot maintains contact with the ground throughout her wind-up, until after she releases the pitch. All she is doing, is repositioning herself into a position in which she can field a ball if hit to her.
She isn't hopping, that pitch is perfectly legal..
Shawsby7 7 months ago
2nd one crow hop is illagal.
thatsoftballgirl08 7 months ago
Perfectly legal.
thatsoftballgirl08 7 months ago
foot drag
carolinaxtreme20 7 months ago
FOOT DRAG her resistance foot is already down when the drag foot comes up.
czfamily 7 months ago
she is going to get in teh face sooner or lately, shorten her hop and dont lean.
Brooklynn2016 7 months ago
defintley an illegal pitch. sorry but you are supposed to keep your back foot down not pick it up.
ilovejb801 8 months ago
ILLEGAL CROW HOP give her the beatings!!!!
domination3617 8 months ago
Its legal she is picking up her foot after the other is already down!
prettyavenue 8 months ago
The one in the red is illegal not because of a crow hop (she does have a little one though so be careful it doesn't get bigger) but because her back foot is not touching the rubber before she starts the pitch, both feet HAVE to be on the rubber before youu start the pitch. I hope I helped :D
krt23babyy 8 months ago
its definately a foot drag.
nbunk1 8 months ago
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bastmswas 8 months ago
the girl in reds wieght is a forward motion however the girl in whites weight is on her pivot foot which constitutes an illeagle pitch, I would not call it however because she does drag off the rubber and does not leap
go yankees
MrHauntings 8 months ago
Not a crow hop....
pepperpoo22 8 months ago
The girl in the white is leaping, her whole foot is coming up after. However, the girl in the red, is definitely crow hopping. Both of her feet are in the air at the same time. But it looks like the bag is too high up from the ground which may make it more difficult to drag. That's what I'm thinking
reggieb923 8 months ago
The white is perfect all drag nothing wrong on the other hand the red has some what of a lift but it is not to seriouse to be called a crohop
baybayfrye 8 months ago
Both illegal
babangs27 8 months ago
The girl girl has only a long drag on her foot but her foor stays planted and doesn't leave the ground, however, the second girl picks up her foot and replants therefore, the girl girl doesn't have a crow hop and the second one does. I konw what to look for, I am also a pitcher.
BeccaCatharine 8 months ago
The one in the white: I cannot tell why her pitches are considered to be illegal. Although I do see her dipping while the pitch is being thrown, and that makes us think that she is crow hopping when she is not.
The one in the red: illegal. He doesn't have both of her feet on the rubber before pitching. And the skipping at the end is not illegal but it annoys me lol
amach99 8 months ago
White=illegal. Her sideways foot drag (parallel to rubber) is replanting for additional push. She's subtle, and good and masking it through her speed of motion, but obvious replant and push...so crow hop. Red=weird. No replant like white, but the leap at end is questionable on some.
Gurualaking 8 months ago
they are both dragging their toe. however, the girl in the white needs not to dip. tell her to keep her head up "big and proud" she will become more accrate and faster
ksalers4201 9 months ago
Not sure if this is exactly answering your question, but no umpire in his right mind is going to call either one of those girls for illegal pitches -- unless parents and fans want to see half of the pitches thrown in a softball game called illegal...fun, fun!!
sammy8887 9 months ago
There both illegal none of them drag their foot all the way!
TheKyra1123 9 months ago
@TheKyra1123 you don't have to drag it all the way just until she releases the ball wich they do. i always did the knee to knee thing it just seemed natural
ksalers4201 9 months ago
illegal pitch
perty96 9 months ago
does that girl in the 2 part have a wedgie
alanadye1 9 months ago
The girl in the white is LEGALLY pitching, I am a softball pitcher myself and i know for a fact that the girl in the white is legally pitching while the girl in the red is replanting her foot at the end witch is not legal.
1001spazzy 9 months ago
Both fairly legal. White leaps farther but throws late, hence the bent over posture @ release. Red leaps shorter but is standing straight up at ball snap. Red stops her forward movement sooner but the enertia causes her to hop after release just like some very famous pitchers we all know.
ChuckLetson 9 months ago
My 12 year old daughter pitched a championship game this weekend and the opposing team complained fiercely about her crow hopping (similar to the kid in the white). The 2nd base umpire told her she was legal and he would not call it. The opposing team continued to complain and the home plate umpire randomly called illegal pitches. With all the yelling my daughter was in tears but managed to continue pitching and won the game. However it ruined the experience. Something needs to be done.
medigator 9 months ago 4
@medigator I'm sorry to hear that. Some parents should be required to watch in a sound-proof room so they don't ruin the experience for the kids. In studying the rule book more closely and speaking with several other umpires I have come to the conclusion that white's (quick) replanting is illegal, has to be called by the field ump and is rarely called due to the quickness and subtelty of it.
76marc 9 months ago
@76marc Yeah she is not replanting at all
czfamily 7 months ago
Both pitchers are legal
WSSOFTBALL09 9 months ago
There is a tendency for there to be a bit of a hole in front of the mound, but I believe, as long as the pitcher's foot does not come above the top of the hole, it's legal. I'm not sure where I heard that though.
ArsonBeanTanks 9 months ago
@ArsonBeanTanks You are exactly correct. It's defined that way in every rule book I've seen.
ChuckLetson 9 months ago
i don't think this is illegal... but it could be. i'm not really sure. Lol. i do that when i pitch. ? i never get in trouble for it...
delaneelovesyou1234 9 months ago
REDDDD< CROW HOPPP
morgan18morgan 9 months ago
White, GREATT toe drag..
It's just not as smooth as it could bee.. But either way, GREAT!
morgan18morgan 9 months ago
The pitcher in the red is leaping off the ground, not crow hoping. But leaping is illegal in most leagues but the ISF just approved leaping for women. (leaping - both feet airborne at the same time) The pitcher needs to drag with the level ground, so if there is a hole at the mound the pitchers foot must drag at the start of the level dirt.
stemcellsrock 9 months ago
@stemcellsrock The "Leap" is not a pitch which promotes both feet off the ground at the same time. You are in error. It is actually known as the "Leap & Drag" method in Women's fastpitch..
ChuckLetson 9 months ago
I am in agreement with respect to the first pitcher NOT replanting. She does have a very long stride, but the push-off foot remains in contact with rubber/ground through her motion. The second pitcher -- intermittently -- does leap, wherein both feet are airborne. I had to review the videos several times frame-by-frame to be certain.
LD50x 9 months ago
My opinion : Neither is even close to a crow hop. Hard to tell if the girl in red's back foot comes off the ground for a second (which is illegal but not a crow hop). Neither looks illegal to me. Sometimes the pitcher's plate is too high off the ground to start with which causes them to look like they come off the ground for a spit second. Both look good to me.
xpressva 9 months ago
the girl in the white completely legal the girl in red if its means is illegal unless your in the states if in canada that is an illegal pitch
dragonmaste28 9 months ago
@dragonmaste28 it's illegal in the staes, as well
195114sm 8 months ago
she is doing foot drag
music5571 9 months ago
Actually there is nothing wrong with the girl in the whites pitching. In order for this to be a illegal crow hop her pivot foot would have to leave contact with the ground and it doesn't.
ForTheLoveOfSoftball 9 months ago
no because her feet do not actually leave the ground. and dragging ur feet isnt illegal as long as u dont go out side the pitching circle while ur pitching
Teslers 10 months ago
I was taught by my pitching coach to drag my foot because it gives you more power and balance with a really poweful leg push like mine and hers. it's completely legal.
MissVolleyball33 10 months ago
i think she is fine
vivalasvegas111 10 months ago
ASA rule 1: A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops or drags off the front foot of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus (or starting point), pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes delivery.
ASA Rule 6(3)(H) Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal. This includes the "crow hop" as defined under Rule 1.
The girl in white clearly replants the pivot foot. Illegal
chaossoftball1 10 months ago 5
Comment removed
Shady8612 7 months ago
@chaossoftball1 Not illegal. both pitchers drag and do not replant. the second pitcher hops at the end of her pitch which is legal. i dont see where she "clearly" replants at all.
c12los 6 months ago
@c12los It doesn't matter whether she drags her pivot foot or not, she cannot put weight on it before she puts weight on her stride foot. That is a crow hop. I can see it plain as day. If you can't and have video editing software, slow it down and you will clearly see it too. You will see her stride foot on the ground and her pivot foot in the air, thus she "pushes off from the newly established starting point and completes delivery". Clearly against the ASA rule. USSSA has the same rule.
chaossoftball1 6 months ago
I should clarify "it doesn't matter whether she drags her pivot foot or not". What I mean is it is possible to drag your pivot foot AND crow hop. Like the first girl is doing.
chaossoftball1 6 months ago
@chaossoftball1 not replanting in my opinion. both are not replanting. yes i would agree you could drag and replant but these girls are not. when you replant, you bear weight and pause quick on the replanted foot. both are not. these pitchers were probably not called illegal. just coaches upset because their batters were not hitting the ball.
c12los 6 months ago
@c12los If you'll slow the first girl down you see that her pivot foot is on the ground while her stride foot is in the air. That is bearing weight.. Umpires usually don't call it because most of them don't know the rule. Neither do most people, as judged a lot of the responses here. I agree that some coaches complain for no other reason than to get into the pitchers head. If I see a pitcher doing it in warm ups, I'll bring it to blue's attention. If he doesn't call it, oh well.
chaossoftball1 6 months ago
@chaossoftball1 now if you have to slow it down on any editing station to see it, an umpire will not call it. all umpires i have played with on the same field know this rule. younger ages will not be called. maybe 14u and up MAYBE get called. and you are right, umpires hardly ever call it. it has to be plain as day. a pitcher and coach could argue both styles.
c12los 6 months ago
The foot drag is totally legeal while the crow hop is not. The 1st pitchers back foot landed before the first foot. thats illegal.
BrittieMusic 10 months ago
foot drag obviously
ayanalouden 10 months ago
My apologies on typing 'two' in place of 'toe'.
mcscr0tis 10 months ago
Upon further investigating Red's release, it does appear that both feet leave the ground. The first time I looked at it, it appeared she was dragging her two the entire time, but it does appear that she leaps off with that foot before she drags her two. She definitely doesn't replant. White does replant before releasing the ball.
mcscr0tis 10 months ago
From what I can see and by the what I have heard and seen described as a crow hop, White is crowhopping, and red is not. Watching just the back foot for a replant is the key. White is replanting. Look at the 38 second mark and you will see her foot planted before release of the ball. Red does not replant, but her toe and only the toe drags on the ground, but does not replant.
Check out the video from Crow Hopping by Ontariofastpitch he gives an excellent differentiation between the two.
mcscr0tis 10 months ago
White-She is not replanting.She has a long stride,and she brings her whole body up a bit,but her push-off foot never leaves the ground
Red-It is illegal.I paused at 1:08,and she has both feet off the ground.This is what looks to put slowing her down.She is bringing all of her power up,and not towards the catcher
phyllislanejackass 11 months ago
Hello!!! You are not allowed to replant and push off during the drag- it is illegal and gives the pitcher a speed advantage- just slow down the frames of the video with some selective pauses and you can CLEARLY see that she does that- her foot is turned flat, sole to the ground and is using that leverage to create additional force. At normal speed, you can suspect that because of the way she kicks up at the end
ajc1337 11 months ago
Legal
Mlux04 11 months ago
I would say that neither of these girls were throwing illegally. I did not see a crow hop.
titansful 11 months ago
@titansful that's because you have 'selective mormon vision', and only see non-mormons breaking the rules.
solomanspaming 11 months ago
@solomanspaming You seem to have a lot of hate. Why not hate someone else or put down someone else that really cares about what you think. I am not going to lose any sleep tonight worrying about what you think or how you feel about me or any other Latter Day Saint.
titansful 11 months ago
@titansful that's because you have 'selective mormon vision', and only see non-mormons breaking the rules.
solomanspaming 11 months ago
illegal. she stepped out of the circle.
swisherx33 11 months ago
Very difficult to throw strikes in softball. But the second pitcher looks illegal. The first pitcher looks illegal from far away, but gives a very good push.
rihdz1 11 months ago
Illegal all the way
babangs27 1 year ago
according to ASA rules it is the act of replanting - whether off a leap OR a drag that is illegal- it doesn't matter whether she loses contact with the ground or not- she still turns her foot sole down and pushes off- that is illegal
ajc1337 1 year ago
@ajc1337 A leap is both feet in the air prior to the pitch. A leap is a replant of the pivot foot prior to the pitch. Neither pitcher is doing anything I can see legal
buddaman200522 11 months ago
according to ASA rules it is the act of replanting - whether off a leap OR a drag that is illegal
ajc1337 1 year ago
I think that the girl in white is pitching illegally- it has nothing to do with maintaining contact with the ground during her drag but the fact that she turns her foot flat and pushes off prior to delivery- its most obvious in the shots from the distance, The best way to cure the problem is to always keep the foot turned over so tha toe is always draggin-- just freeze frame the video and it is easy to see that the sole of her foot contacts the ground and she pushes off before releasing.
ajc1337 1 year ago 2
Not an illegal pitch
tsdmh 1 year ago
ASA Rules states it is an illegal pitch if there is a replant prior to the ball leaving the pitchers hand. The first girl in white is simply doing a drag, which is completely legal, because the rear foot never leaves the ground and simply turns over on the toe and drags. COMPLETELY LEGAL! The girl in red is replanting her foot after leaping from the rubber. ILLEGAL PITCH!
Unfortunately a lot of umpires are are not educated properly on this subject either...
tee2greenn1 1 year ago
There is no rule against coming out of the circle. The circle has no bearing on the pitch, only in regards to runners on base. A pitcher can go as close to the plate as they want, as long as it is done legally.
neuip 1 year ago
The illgeal pitch.., The pitcher jumped way too far out, which is dangerous if the batter auctally hits the ball.
And you cannot come out of the circle..
AlyssaHeape 1 year ago
If you freeze the video on both pitchers, you can clearly see the replant and the leap. Absolutely no question.
neuip 1 year ago
Both are illegal. The girl in white was taught to hide the replant with a drag. Establishing a second push point is not legal, even with a drag. The player in red is leaping with out question.
neuip 1 year ago
red is clean..clearly on the toe thru out the drag which if one has ever pitched will know that its impossiable to put any weight on the toe .white is crowhopping.contray to popular belief, the pivot foot doesnt not have to leave the ground to replant..called a crow drag..been around for years in the mens game. white never stay on the toe... replants on ball of foot, and then pushed hard..anytime a pitcher lands on ball of foot, it will bear weight which makes it impossiable to not push again.
Fletchusa41 1 year ago
The girl in the white is not actually "replanting" at all. In order to "replant" she would have to lose contact with the ground which she doesn't. A replant would be stepping with her right foot off the mound and then pitch the ball. This is also known as a "crow hop".
crzyswimmer53690 1 year ago
@crzyswimmer53690 Thanks for the input. If I see her coach in the league next year, I will politely share your ideas.
76marc 1 year ago
@76marc No problem. Update us this season with a video, I hope she improves! If she learns to keep her weight back she will throw very hard. Her stride should be about her body length. A little longer when she learns the Riseball and a little smaller when she learns the drop/change. Good LUCK!
crzyswimmer53690 1 year ago
@76marc The girl in the white is not crow hopping, as for the girl in the red she is.
acsoftball2010 10 months ago
@crzyswimmer53690 That is incorrect. A pitchers foot doesn't necessarily have to come off the ground to replant. She can drag, replant and throw the pitch which is a crow hop. If the foot comes off the mound and off the ground, that is called a leap. If she replants after the leap, then she has committed a leap and a crow hop. I see it all the time, leaps, crow hops and leaps followed by a crow hop.
jhshap 7 months ago
She has a nice dragging position with her big toe down properly, she just needs to learn to keep dragging that way until she drags to her left ankle and then she can finish the pitch by squaring to the plate. This would allow her to throw harder and keep her hips at a 45-52 degree angle and would help her with learning breaking pitches. The girl in the red is leaping and it is because she has her feet in the wrong position on the rubber. Half of her right foot should be on the dirt.
crzyswimmer53690 1 year ago
white is not illegal. The "replant" that some are referring to has to do with her hips beginning to close in the motion. She doesn't actually lose contact with the dirt. However, I feel her stride is a little too long because she is leaning forward at the end of her pitch and not finishing her drag. She isn't able to push back off her left leg to get the most out of her pitch and keep her weight back. This will lead to slower pitching, back pain from bending over, and wild pitches.
crzyswimmer53690 1 year ago
the girl in the white is well was pitching legally probably not the best motion to have becuz theyr will most likely be a lot of debate but her backk foot clearly never leaves the ground the girrl in red is pitching ilegally (:
t0mb0yAtHeart9327 1 year ago
white is a LEGAL pitch....Red is an illegal pitch
abettnman 1 year ago
If you freeze in mid pitch you can clearly see white is replanting, the worst red is doing is a small leap- she hops after release
ajc1337 1 year ago
ASA - "A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the Front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus, pushes off from the newly-established starting point and and completes the delivery." USSSA - "A crow hop is the replanting of the pivot foot prior to delivery of the pitch."
Despite the girl's long drag, if she REPLANTS, she crow hops
ajc1337 1 year ago
IMHO white is illegal cause she replants- I think that she turns her foot flat at the end of the pitch to push off and kick up- she would not manage that kick up without the leverage from the replant, The second girl, while she hops a bit at the end, it seems she does it after release. Her foot is always turned with the toe down until she releases the ball so she is not replanting
ajc1337 1 year ago
I agree with last few posts. Both drag, and never replant.
PokerBoy621 1 year ago
I see no crow hop from WHITE or RED. The rule states that the pitch begins when the hands separate. Both pitchers were clearly into the delivery as the pivot foot dragged.
RED is in violation of having the non pivot foot behind the pitcher's plate prior to the pitch. Only NFHS allows this pitching style.
jlw0922 1 year ago
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jlw0922 1 year ago
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jlw0922 1 year ago
not illegal
24heartz 1 year ago
White- great long toe drag. so long that she had to plant her foot firm to release making it look like a crow hop.
Red- still a toe drag but not as coordinated as white. both attempt the same style
myself462 1 year ago
@myself462 That's what I see as well.
My next question is about when she plants her foot again to release. Is that considered a crow hop? Initiate, plant foot again and then release... crow hop?
76marc 1 year ago
@76marc i can see where that question would cause concern for the Red. but as for the white i would not say that aspect is a crow hope either. I just think that with her toe drag she has so much momentum that she has to do that after the plant. However I still dont think thats the case with the red either I am still going with her attempting the same style but the coordination is too big of a factor to make it look good.
myself462 1 year ago
@myself462 Thanks for your input.
76marc 1 year ago
@myself462 Agreed. Don't see any anything wrong
buddaman200522 11 months ago
white- long toe drag! good thing
red- drag but hopped at the end before relasing
freaksonahurricane 1 year ago
both of them are illegal. the first pitcher it was reallly hard to tell cuz shes going so fast, you can barely see it tho, but the second pitcher was crow hopping, and you can see that easily.
sandlotheroes5 1 year ago
red is illegal
smoketheplate 1 year ago
legal,, pitcher #1. (no umps would call that illegal) if her weight was shifted back it would be a nice pitch and wouldn't look akward. She needs to keep her weight back on the fastball.
acmecompany 1 year ago