Michael Ratner on Ron Paul and "soft fascism" in the US

[mrearlygold]

Ron Paul would have made the best president since Thomas Jefferson. We would have seen a year of really tough times while President Paul allowed the markets to re-adjust. Pres Paul would be cutting spending down to Constitutional limits and by the end of his first term this country would be having a giant party of prosperity the likes of which we haven't experienced in a long long time. Ron Paul 2012!

[MadXMax187]

I'd say probably Kucinich or Ron Paul would have been the best choice for America, Obama turned out to be a global government goomba and McCain would have been the same thing. Bush = Obama = McCain see the choices we have here in America? All roads lead back to Rome, America is a fascist dictatorship

[atlantoon]

I would like Ron Paul if he wasn't a raging anti-semite!

[WTFworld49]

@atlantoon lol he isnt!!

[Earthlazarus]

Thanks, "bro", I know what a counterexample is. However, your "counterexample" wasn't deductively invalidating, so it was a bad one. A for effort, though. What you should have done was shown me a very free society with lots of technology. That's how counterexamples work.

[Earthlazarus]

Following up on my first reply, even then, this could be a complicated matter, where the example would ignore the overall trend, due to the technologically advanced society's underlying structure. Though I doubt it. I can't conceive of such an example, even in my imagination. It completely neglects humanity's drive for power, and the corruption of that power. The society would have to be completely without hierarchy. How can technology evolve beyond what it is now without?

[arconus]

Look even you admit that technology is used always by the once that poses the most power. In a Stalin's police state the more technology the more power the gov has. In an anarchy state the more technology the more power people have. All we have to focus on is to limit the size of the gov. If gov does not have the money to accumulate enough power the technology in the hands of people is more powerful then that in the hands of the gov.

[arconus]

it was your claim was not sometimes technology leads to decrease of freedom your claim was perhaps poorly stated nevertheless it was like for all A -> B in that case all you need to show that there exists A such that not B and thats what I did. In other words you said technology leads to lack of freedom, I showed u an example where it does not. Plus look there is not a single example to the contrary. Sorry but so far every single time we have access to more technology the more free we are.

[arconus]

I believe that what we both should be concerned about is more and more power in the hands of individuals. That is a far more difficult problem to tackle. 1000 years ago for a person to kill somebody you had to stab him and probably if in a public space you would be stabbed back after one kill. Today you can take a rifle and shoot 40 people. Tomorrow you can blow up new york. That said I try to think positively.

[arconus]

plus look in my opinion there is no way back ... without technology there is no progress without progress we are no better then cows. We have to move forward otherwise our intellect is frozen. We should do our best to limit the power of the government so that it does not have the upper hand over the people. Then technology can work in our advantage. Example: implanted chips soon enough can wire tap every individual. But if civilians have access to personal jammers it has no impact on freedom.

[Earthlazarus]

If civilians have access, but of course that's not true. That would only be a false sense of freedom, living under the shadow of those who would continue to use the technology to their advantage. Technology is momentous. It requires more of itself to keep up with itself. Soon, it comes to control us. We are no longer in control. This entity, this Progress we seek to sustain, is running the show. Freedom is a perception. I wonder how free the Borg think they are?

[arconus]

that is not true today but only because we have an enormous government that sponsors most of the research and deals with most of our money.

If you have small government most money is in the hands of the people and most funding for research comes from private hands which gives more power to the people.

Plus without technology you might be free as a bird. But it has to be a total lack of technology and then what kind of freedom do you have. Freedom to hunt all day for a scrap of raw meat ??

[Earthlazarus]

Ron Paul is still pro-technology, which inevitably carries us toward loss of essential freedoms, completely out of his control.

[arconus]

Yes you are so right that's why we have so much less freedom then during middle ages.

Couldn't agree more more technology must = less freedom.

Idiot !!!

[Earthlazarus]

Because clearly technology did not exist during the Middle Ages. "Idiot !!!" Here's your structure of logic.

My argument was if A, then B, where A is more technology, and B is less freedom. Your argument is this:

If A, then B.

Not A.

Therefore B.

Denying the antecedent, and therefore, invalid. Introductory logic. "Idiot !!!"

[Earthlazarus]

"If A, then B.

Not A.

Therefore B."

Excuse me, I meant to write, 'Therefore not B,' as your line of logic.

[Earthlazarus]

And if you don't understand that, let me dumb it down for you: just because A is the cause of B, does not mean that A is the sole cause of B. There are many more factors in the world at play with our freedoms and our society in general beyond technology, such as propaganda, religious indoctrination, fear-mongering, etc. Not only am I against increased technology; I am as well against civilization as a whole, to include its campaign.

[arconus]

bro it so happens that i took descreet math and i quite a few philosophy classes so you dont have to dumb it down ... and my logic is correct you. I know such a fancy word might escape your grasp but it's called a counter example. You were claiming that more technology implies less freedom. I showed you a clear example where it's not the case. I'm glad you notice that world is complex. And that technology is not the only factor contributing to the freedom factor.

[Earthlazarus]

Furthermore, as not to alienate you too much, let me say something constructive to your understanding: more technology means more security, because it means more control. Security from nature, and control over it, mainly. When technology is focused in the hands of the experts, under a government who is mainly in control of it, that security is geared toward their interests. You are an individual at the mercy of such. What must be sacrificed for security? I leave you with that to ponder.

[arconus]

but if that's the case cant you see that technology can have impact not only on how easy it is for the government to spy on us citizens. But it also has an impact on how easy it is for us to see what the government is doing. And also how sophisticated we might be in "covering our tracks". Dont get me wrong i see a possibility of a technology driven police state. But history seams to point out that the opposite is more likely to happen. The more technology in the hands of people the more freedom.

[Earthlazarus]

In response to your second reply, you cannot possibly compare the rate of increasing technology in industrial society to that of history's, and even so, history has quite a terrible track record. History is written by the leading academia, not by some objective source, I'm sure you know. We'll always try to make our society look the best. You neglect the fact that technology is becoming increasingly more specialized in the hands of the government. The common man evermore loses his power to this.

[11177037]

You listen to Ron Paul and he is labeled a radical by the media. Why? Is it because he has an answer to his position on these issues? Or is it in addition to his position he has the ability to defend his position with fact and gravitas? Not only does Ron Paul answer questions honestly, but he offers solutions. We just can't have these qualities in a president. We need BS'ers who tell us what we want to here. Herd the masses (sheeple). With this in mind vote obama americas new BS'er

[pantadon]

Ron Paul Rocks.

[NakedFolk]

Bastards.

[kschumannjr]

Paul has been proven to be a racist sympathizer. His followers are fanatics and his policies look to discard equal rights for minorities. Anyone who supports this guy is making a huge mistake.

[AllForChange]

And imagine he is fighting for freedom and rights for people like you.

[kschumannjr]

Actually, he is fighting for the repealing of the rights of minorities (Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Voting Rights Act). You support this guy, shouldn't you know this? Just the thought that you can vote in this country is scary.

[AllForChange]

So you and your neocon buddies believe the constitution is an outdated piece of paper? You and you FOX buddies think if you tell a lie enough times most people will believe it? Ron Paul is a strict constitutionalist and is working to get our republic back. For your info I have fought for this country and among us patriots you sir are a sympathizer in this revolution. One way or another you end is near.

[kschumannjr]

Instead of debating on facts, you claim I am a "FOX watching neocon"? On topic, your own post belies to your argument, "Ron Paul is a strict constitutionalist(?)" which would mean he is for the dissolution of all amendments to it, including those that afforded civil liberties for minorities and women.

Patriots are men of honor, you joined the army for a hand out and this makes you scum on the boots of real patriots.

[AllForChange]

In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

-Mark Twain

[kschumannjr]

Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by (a politician).

-Theodore Roosevelt

[StorminNormin1977]

No he has publicly stated that he respects the ability to change the constitution, constitutionally!

[YadaYadaguy]

yeah the names sound great but so does the Patriot Act ..So does Prevention of Homegrown Terrorism...but they was used to put limits on your freedom and independance.Civil RIghts Act was against Martin Lurther King jr.'s teaching cause it clearly labels people other then People.black people white people asians ect its very racist since we are all one race the human race.

[divinejudge1]

you are strongly misinformed

[gladiator1010]

you are an idiot...what is it about freedom you hate so much?

[MasterMark123]

AT LAST !!! someone says this ! I have been saying this for 4 years now... The Government has move into a Fascist control

[paulb0188]

Keep up the valuable reporting RN!

[humanedomain]

very informative clip - thank you so much

these are issues that you dont necessarily see or catch in the MSM

[projectdurden]

McCain/Paul 2008

[YuriKenobi]

Haha, funny =)

[OscarLimaMike]

Paul/McCain 2008

[Rickdeckard2020]

' McCain/Paul 2008 '

McCain? The 'Bomb-bomb-bomb bomb-bomb Iran' nutcase? Hes a warmonger.

[qstendious]

I wish people would stop trying to simplify things into these leak-proof categories. Dem, Rep, Ind, Lib, they all say nothing. It's leaps and bounds away from being that black and white. Convenience has proven to be the most expensive thing in the world.

[trapsmv9]

It's actually SIMPLER than that. It's 'Bought' or 'Not'.

Everyone... - Bought

...BUT Gravel, Kucinich, and Paul - Not

[gladiator1010]

I agree...paying for convenience through our noses...lol

[infokemp3]

Communism, Fascism, Zionism, Wahabist Jihad, -they use totalitarianism in Politics and Religion to cow resistance, to cull reason and honor.

Its their STRATEGY OF TENSION.

Check out BBC series GLADIO - on youtube.

Following films on Google video

Endgame

Freedom to Fascism - on the inflation thats destroying the dollar and the Fed reserve.

The Money masters

9/11 Mysteries -shows both sides lets you make your own mind up.

[infokemp3]

The state and globalism has, is and will be in engaged in control so that they can loot society and destroy the nation, they want control because they have no self control. They use left -right ideology as a artifice to get power.

The state and globalism has is and will always be organized crime - neo-feudalism - the NWO/Mafia ( and its components such as Al-Queada, CFR, Carlyle, Royal Families and Rothschilds Rockerfellas etc) is just ORGANIZED CRIME there is nothing mystical about that!

[Eudoxio80]

We can't any longer depend on our so called leaders. Ron Paul is one person, we need more leaders like him. We have to become leaders ourselves and safe our country and planet from corruption & greed. It's time 2 wake up. We enslave ourselves for money, and then use that money to buy unnecessary things. We work, eat, find a distraction, and sleep. Same cycle till we're 80 and we never accomplish our mission.

[Qeeyroo]

don't forget about the military industry (pvt security firms)

[BamaGravelian]

Heh, what about Gravel's censorship? What about the recent false announcement about Gravel's withdrawal from the race on MSNBC? It's been clear we've been headed down this path for a while. I hope people are starting to pay attention. We don't have much time now; if we wait for the election for "change", we may not even have one. The people have to stand up now against this injustice.

[roberteckerson]

Thanks REAL news for giving props to

Ron Paul.

[truefictions]

Why don't they call Guantanamo for what it is?

It is a concentration camp.

It is like the ones Hitler used to have, the only difference is that they are not yet gassing people.

[websuspect]

Fascism, see Axe with bundle of sticks and shit tied to it viewable on the Dime and in congress. Or the various kinds of shit eating 200+ agencies monitoring and spying on the publics phones, street cameras internet and Spy satellites.

[cowcidile]

Wow torture isn't illegal yet.

[maxx1000]

>

Torture has been illegal since the ratification of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions. Congress just "CAN'T RECALL"!

.

[cowcidile]

ignorance is bliss unless your getting your fingernails pulled out.

[SwobyJ]

this got comments quick :)

Ron Paul better get the nomination... or the friggin NWO will gain steam :(

[gabeh73]

lets see some Sibel Edmonds news and some WTC building 7 news...some news about the horrendous drug war and CIA drug trafficking...then we'll know your honest.

[gabeh73]

good job real news in this case...we still know your carnegie foundation supported...you ignored Gore Vidal when he tried to bring up Ron Paul...You engage in global warming propaganda...we see your evil ways.

[Requiredfields2]

Who pays you to make such moronic comments? I mean a normal person just couldn't come up with that on their own.

[Gilliatt83]

thank you real news for the up date. peace

[redheadfo847]

i love REal NEWS!!!!

[teemuruskeepaa]

Ron Paul "libertarian" is against of international institutions. He and Barak Obama are the 2 best of candidates and neither of them is perfect. Ron Paul is the best for the American identity, Barak Obama is the most progressive for the entire World. Not bad choises neither of them though.

[PersonalJesus348]

Obama is the worst. He doesn't have a clue. Gravel is the best man.

[Xenu]

People use the word "fascism" way too easily. Is a monarch a fascist? Is any ultra-conservative a fascist? When fascism really does rear its ugly head these people are in for a surprise. Ron Paul is NOT an Anglo-Libertarian. He is a paleoconservative.

[greatbroad]

Xenu, I take issue with your position about fascism, as I am one of the people who are using that 'f' word.

May I make the suggestion you please google: Major General Smedley D. Butler. He saved the US from becoming such a word in 1934.

-BTW, they went over to Germany and found a young politician named Adolf...

[Xenu]

I fail to see your point. I know who Gen. Smedley Butler was. What's your point? Fascism is a mass movement based on the lower middle class which develops as a reaction to the collapse of capitalist above and the threat of socialism below. Corporatism is a part of fascism but is far from the only factor. If we were a fascist government we wouldn't be having this conversation. We'd be in a concentration camp.

[Xenu]

In periods of economic collapse the bourgeois state becomes more and more conservative/authoritarian, NOT fascist. Fascism is a mass movement. The business plot would have been quickly overturned since objective conditions were not right to make it succeed

[maxx1000]

.

And that Conservative Christian Coalition wasn't a mass movement? Or say, that Contract with America?

WHO do you fool but yourself?

Google 14 defining characteristics of Fascism.

America fill da bill, to a "T".

.

[Xenu]

The 14 list is NOT scholarly. Any serious scholar of fascism would laugh at such nonsense. The state is not controlled by the Christian Coalition. That is certainly the section from which fascism will originate but if we were fascist you'd be in a concentration camp.

[greatbroad]

Sorry, Xenu, but I think your main point is on your head...

Senator Prescott Bush made his family's fortune thru enabling Hitler. The money was so good, he refused to shut down the Union Bank, and the US had to perform that task for him. Prescott's kid was an official in the CIA when JFK was murdered, and now his grandkid shreds the US Constitution to cheers from congress.

[Xenu]

You conspiracists are a riot. Shows the intellectual capacity of most Ron Paul supporters. There is no proof that the CIA assassinated JFK or that the Bush family was somehow involved. You clowns obviously have no idea what fascism is. We're still a bourgeois democracy becoming increasingly authoritarian.

[greatbroad]

The Men Who Killed Kennedy, narrated by Roger Mudd had a section in it: The Autopsy.

Obviously you have missed it.

Analysis of the autopsy photos clearly show the top right portion and rear of JFK's head is made up of a material different than the rest of his head.

Pull YOURS out of the sand, Xenu.

[maxx1000]

.

Of the Democrats against warrantless wiretaps, Guantamino, lifting of Habeas Corpus, etc...

WHY NOT MENTION KUCINICH?

.

[Miles969]

i was wondering the same thing...