Lincoln vs Lincoln: Abraham Lincoln on Secession

[SovereignStatesman]

Problem: Note Lincoln says "Any People, being inclined AND HAVING THE POWER."

This diverges from the Foundering quote that "IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE".

Clearly, Lincoln makes right contingent on MIGHT-- which is the hallmark of a dictator, i.e. basing authority on brute force rather than natural law.

[procommenter]

The U.S. govt. sacrificed 3,000 soldiers at Pearl Harbor in 1941 to the Empire of Japan; the U.S. govt. poisons and adulterates our water with the waste product sodium fluoride and the blood intoxicant known as lithium (as well as innumerable heavy metals and pesticides). The U.S. govt. clouds the skies with aluminum oxide and barium salt. I am able and willing to turn YOU over to Iraq's citizens for dispensation. Murder is murder. The murdering of children is especially abhorrent.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

Actually the US govt. engaged in acts of war against both Germany and Japan in 1940-41, while pretending neutrality, and then rationalizing it after the war in self-fulfiling manner.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : U.S. battleships violated Japanese territorial waters throughout the late 1930's.

[cfbastiat]

Imagine that, a politician who talks out of both sides of his mouth. Judge a person by their actions, not their words. When will we realize that the state is just a giant mafia with a monopoly on force that tempts unscrupulous thugs like Lincoln to plunder us all? Imagine a town that elects a person every 4 years to be the only guys in town with a gun . Do you think eventually the wrong guy is going to get the gun? We need to wake up and realize that the concept of the state is a very bad one.

[procommenter]

Lincoln on Slavery: "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery." --- March 14, 1861

"What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." --- 7-17-1858, fr. a speech delivered in Springfield, Ill.

"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, or of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people." --- September 15, 1858

[SovereignStatesman]

@cfbastiat

No, just the UBER-state; that's why the Founders and People ensured that each state was a sovereign nation before and after the Constitution, and could refuse any federal law or secede entirely AT ANY TIME.

[Luigi84289]

It's really quite sad that people view him as greater than the man who led our struggle against tyranny in 1776. Washington is an American Hero. He in a sense is America. If not for him the Revolution would have been unsuccessful.

[dmkavidelly]

President Abraham Lincoln was a brutal dictator that ordered the annihilation of Georgia... So long as the killing started after he was reelected.

[Luigi84289]

Exactly. He was no better than saddam hussein. He didn't do anything but kill people and destroy the country for money.

[SovereignStatesman]

@Luigi84289

Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Hirohito, you name it-- statism is statism, i.e. absolute power with zero accountability.

Power IS money.

[1schwererziehbar1]

it is true that he ordered the annihilation of Georgia. it is also true that he willingly helped end slavery.

abraham lincoln was a sophisticated person and your comment suggests that you are not mentally able to see him as that. you know only good people and evil people because your mind is not able to see in shades.

[RedShirtArmy]

A 'sophisticated person who called up an army and executed a war that killed 600,000 people. I call anyone who would do such a thing a savage person. He suspeded habeous corpus. He put the supreme court under house arrest. He had at least one member of congress exiled from the US for opposed him. He had newspaper men who opposed him put in jail. Lincoln was a totalitarian monster - easily the worst thing ever to happen to the land.

[SovereignStatesman]

@RedShirtArmy

It's not even that; he invaded and conquered 13 sovereign nations, by turning 24 sovereign nations against them under Martial Law.

My video proves how Pres. Jackson originally laid the groundwork for this about 30 years earlier, and Lincoln simply pulled the trigger; in fact Lincoln's only sources for his First Inaugural Address were Daniel Webster, Andrew Jackson and Joseph Story's works.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman He had to as the U.S. Constitution does not provide for a coalition of states to invade another state.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

Because the US IS NOT A SOVEREIGN NATION.

Each STATE is a sovereign nation.

BY LAW.

My video proves this, it's worth a look on my channel.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : No argument there. Gen. Robert E. Lee fought for his country. His country was Virginia.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

Yeah but he fought it as a revolution, not as a national defense of a sovereign state.

That albatross cost him the war, even though he revoked it afterward in 1859

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman Lee, in an interview, referred to Virginia as a country. He also regretted surrendering after he saw what "Reconstruction" entailed.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

A "country" is not necessarily a sovereign nation, though some use it synonyously.

Lee expressly stated that secession was revolution, and that was how he fought the war for the South, rather than as a national defense-- and in doing so, he clearly and obviously gave up a decisive advantage which definitely cost him the war.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : Yes, and the fact that the C.S.A. didn't have a viable navy to break the blockade. The war might have ended in stalemate had the South been able to export cotton, indigo & tobacco with which to fund its army.

[dmkavidelly]

A bit late on that response I see. lol

As far as ending slavery, yes he did. He ALSO wanted to send the freed slaves back to Africa (parts he fully intended as part of an American Empire, not independent).

I can see in grey just fine, you'll not find me spewing the BS that he started the war but he's not the heroic god he's made out to be. A brutal dictator who truly thought he was fighting for the 'greater good'? Yes but still a brutal dictator. Consider this quote,

[dmkavidelly]

"I have saved the Union by destroying the Republic." He FULLY knew what he was doing and what he was.

[SovereignStatesman]

@dmkavidelly

That's like saving your marriage by beating your wife.

Lincoln destroyed a republic and created an EMPIRE, just like Caesar or Hitler.

It's a conqueror's dream to say that sovereignty can be INFERRED rather than expressly stated; that way they can just throw down some gobbledegook and then proceed to invade under claim of national authoirity, while afterward claiming that the pesky legal details were "settled on the battlefield" while blaming the victims as "rebels and traitors."

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman Many women gravitate towards aggressive men. They'll abandon their kindly husband and small children to do so. Norman Mailer observed that fascism IS the natural government of Man. I see no great distinction betwixt fascism, corporatism, monarchism, statism, Rooseveltism and the myriad of other -isms that attack free market forces, property rights, real money (metal, not paper certificates of metal reserves) & gun ownership.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

It ALL comes down to popular state sovereignty, i.e. each state is a sovereign nation, and the PEOPLE are the ruling sovereigns-- NOT the governing officials; and thus the People of the state can overrule the state and federal government AT ANY TIME.

Lincoln crushed this truth, and so now the USA is an all-powerful empire under an oligarchy of 545 governing officials in Washington, who are essentially the masters of the enslaved people, albeit elected.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : We still have jury nullification (jury lawlessness). Judge the law! Acquit anyone who's being tried for violating an unconstitutional statute.

[SovereignStatesman]

@dmkavidelly "As far as ending slavery, yes he did. He ALSO wanted to send the freed slaves back to Africa (parts he fully intended as part of an American Empire, not independent)."

And Hitler wanted to send the Jews to Palestine, while he ended up getting them their own state.

But only an absolute FOOL would CREDIT Hitler with restoring the state of Israel-- but that's exactly what they do with Lincoln ending slavery, i.e. his greedy plan to TAX them simply BACKFIRED and they got away instead!

[procommenter]

Slavery has yet to end in the U.S. In the 21st century citizens are imprisoned for such "crimes" as: consuming a weed (marijuana), selling raw cow milk, possessing eagle feathers, "kidnapping" their children, failing to report wages, driving uninsured, carrying a firearm, smuggling bitter almond trees & 4-gallon toilets, "hate" speech (Orwellian THOUGHTCRIME), refusing as pedestrians to show a drivers' license, D.U.I. while asleep in a parked car, etc.

[Luigi84289]

@1schwererziehbar1 He was a power hungry maniac. He was not sophisticated in the least. All he cared about were tax dollars from those states. "If I could save the union without freeing a single slave I would do it" He fooled everyone. He was evil. Our first dictator. He had his opposition in 1864 excommunicated from the US, he had legislatures locked up, a federal judge placed under house arrest, suspended Habeus Corpus, shut down newspapers, approved the atrocities committed by his generals.

[SovereignStatesman]

@Luigi84289

You're kinder than I am. Lincoln was the most deranged lunatic in world history; even Hitler only followed Lincoln's precedented examples on statism and genocide, as he wrote in "Mein Kampf," and likewise Lincoln introduced the concept of Total War to the world in the manner of ruthless Machiavellian pragmatism, i.e. that history is written by the victors, so power should be achieved by any means. So he appointed butchers like Grant and Sherman, not Christians like Lee and Jackson.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : The electorate of 1864 DID NOT elect Lincoln for a second term. Lincoln "won" on absentee ballots cast from battlefields. Much happened to these ballots between the battlefields and the counting houses. Joseph Stalin's observation: "The people who count the votes are more important than the people who cast the votes," clarifies the mystery as to how Lincoln, the most-reviled Chief Magistrate in the Republic's history, secured a second term of office.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

That's really a given under an empire; once it acquires absolute power, elections become a mockery-- a wild goose-chase by which the people remain enslaved under the illusion of freedom.

Remember that Lincoln silenced ANYONE who would speak against him, so free elections were impossible-- let alone the conflict regarding absentee ballots from soldiers for or against their commander-in-chief in time of war.

That's why each state is a sovereign nation!

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : What the U.S. must do to avoid disintegration: revoke popular election of U.S. senators, ban civil servants fr. joining secretive Orders (the F.O.P., C.F.R., etc.), compel Congress to coin (not print) our money, disband standing armies, end foreign aid, end the C.I.A. & F.B.I. and put on trial its agents & directors, turn over to Iraqi & Afghani tribal elders U.S. officials who ordered the deployment of D.U.

[SovereignStatesman]

@procommenter

NO.

The PEOPLE of each state must assert the FACT that their state is a sovereign nation, and that THEY-- not any select officials-- are the RULING SOVEREIGNS of their respective state.

That is the ONLY solution.

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : The courts are established. ALL citizens must acquit defendants. It's an action that can be taken immediately. It requires no new laws. If 90% of all citizens being tried for violating unconstitutional laws were acquitted, how long would it take to turn things around?

[procommenter]

@SovereignStatesman : The polling stations were manned with federal troops who insisted that voters cast the proper vote: the vote for Union Party (Republican) candidates.

[Luigi84289]

@1schwererziehbar1 Davis was right. We should have chased the yanks all the way back to DC after bull run and taken that unamerican swine into our custody. Read the Corwin Amendment. Read his platform. The Republicans have always been the corporate party. The party of big business. All they care about is money.

[SovereignStatesman]

@Luigi84289

No, he should have just maintained a position of aggressive defense.

Going into Yankee territory was suicide, they were outnumbered and out-defended.

If they had simply defended their own territory, and ran the campaign as a national defense rather than a rebellion, they would have made Vietnam look like a picnic with over 10:1 casualty rates.

[Luigi84289]

the south seceded and the north no longer ate up all of the federal funds, compensated emacipation would have been easy.

[Luigi84289]

were involuntarily fighting their own cause and stirring up resentment in each part of the country for the other. further ironic still is that peaceful compensation would have cost the fed peanuts but northerners refused to let any of "their" money go. They felt that furthering industry was more important than following the constitution and so we have 45 years of southern slavery that didn't have to exist. Once

[Luigi84289]

blaming the whole problem on the south, looking at them as evil devils and hellspawn, southern slavery could have easily been taken care of peacably way before 1865 and the butcher of 600,000 Americans. This is the great irony of the abolitionists position. They didn't wanna do anything but kill people and destroy the southern economy for an inherited problem of the slave owning minority. Which is EXACTLY what happened. The abolitionists

[Luigi84289]

Lincoln was a tyrannical asshole who blamed everything on slavery, which Ironically was the backbone of the north until the early 19th century. Slavery is an economic problem. If the north had continued working with the south as it had since the beginning of the current union until the early 19th century to peacefully get rid of it by compensation (like they did) instead of lambasting slaveowners and

[MillionthUsername]

Not surprising, I guess. 600,000 people had to die because he changed his opinion. Anyone who denies the right of secession is immediately caught in a contradiction since the very existence of any state is almost certainly based on a secession from a previous power.

If any state legislature would actually vote for it, I'm sure that a great many people would want to move there immediately in order to be free of this federal tyranny.

[MySouthernHeritage]

Thank you for posting all these great videos!

[katsfanman]

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[HeritageNotHateProd]

5 Stars

Lincoln was a hypocritical tyrant.

[GaGirlie777]

Redshirtarmy mentions the Lincoln double talk at the end. Bush and all these other New World Order politicians do the same thing. Bush talks about freedom all while he's passing the Patriot Act.

[GaGirlie777]

Things are soooo bad today. How come secession isn't on the table now in all states? I mean more than just talk or a threat. What fun we have riding on this Titanic!

[Luigi84289]

Actually it is. 30 states are passing resolutions to the fed to reaffirm 10th amendment rights and essentially voiding anything the fed does unconstitutionally which is about 90% of it's activity.

[GaGirlie777]

Good. Thanks for the info.

I think, though, Americans will need to do more.

[goldstandardgirl]

It is difficult to make a man miserable while he feels worthy of himself and claims kindred to the great God who made him.

-Abraham Lincoln

[guitarbandit7498]

This goes to back up much of what I've always believed about Lincoln. He was our country's first terrorist. Half a million people died, our own people, because of that fucker. The constitution is clear in it's stance on secession, yet Lincoln chose to ignore it. More Americans died in the Civil War than nearly all other American wars combined. Good job 'Honest Abe'...

[RedShirtArmy]

Yeah, on Lincoln's hands lie the deaths of more about 600,000 people - more US deaths in than Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, WWI and WWII combined. Plus, he shreaded the concept of rule of law. He was definitely a tyrant.

[guitarbandit7498]

Yeah, ironic though he is seen as one of our county's greatest presidents. What people fail to realize is a)the Civil War was not about slavery. b)Even if the states had succeeded in their sucession eventually it would have all worked out anyway as a complete nation due to economics and security issues. Even if it took a little longer. Being one nation makes us stronger, but half a million people didn't have to die for it to happen. Sad thing is people today don't understand the Civil War.

[Luigi84289]

completely agree and I'm of the notion slavery would have been out the window by 1865 if not earlier if lincoln hadn't terrorrized the CSA. People also fail to grasp that just because a state had slavery didn't mean that it didn't contain any free blacks and other minorities. And Slavery in essence was propagated by the north. the south at this point being strong anit-north would have probably ended slavery for this reason as well to rid themselves of any ties to the USA.

[Joseph565112]

My next posts will be quotes from ol not so honest Abe. Sorry the first one doesnt have quotations but the damn size requirments. Here it is Abraham Lincoln speaking at the Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois on September 18th 1858. Now after reading it are we all to undertsand that this man had a revelation of sorts in the early 1860s? I dont think so. This was before the war before he had to take advantage of slaves position to maintain support for his unjust war.

[Joseph565112]

I wil say then that I am not nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes nor of qualifying them to hold office nor to intermarry with white people and I will also say that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality

[Joseph565112]

continued:"I do not believe the two races can co-exist in any way without the titles of Inferior and Superior being assigned to each race, I as much as any other white man would like the title of Superior to stay assigned to the white race" Hmm that means blacks should be assigned Inferior. That was the whole basis behind any slavey in the worlds history. That the enslaved were either less human or just not human all together. Calling blacks "Inferior" incites just that belief. What a great guy

[Joseph565112]

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it. What I do about slavery and the colored race I do because I believe it helps to save the Union"-President Abraham Lincoln August 1862.

Then a little warcriminal oops I mean Sherman. "I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to my men to count negros as equals. Let us capture negros of course and use them to the best advantage"-Gen Sherman Sept. 14th 1864.

[sainter1]

The blatant hypocrisy in Lincoln's two statements is plain to see, there is no getting around it. I venture to say that the first quote is what he truly believed (?) whereas the second was a political convenience serving his puposes and more to the point, the industrialists behind the scenes. A VERY informative vid. Well done.

[RedShirtArmy]

Glad you enjoyed this one, Sainter1. You sort of inspired it with your note you sent me. Not exactly what you suggested, but along those lines. Take it easy down under, man.

[RiverBirch1967]

Very good video and quotes. It shows the power of money, yes?

[803honda]

excellent!

hey, thats a Hank Williams song!

but whose singin it??

Ive always loved ole Hank; the greatest songwriter of all time and the inventor of rock and roll!

[RedShirtArmy]

It sure is an ole Hank song. This version I really love - it's by Tom Petty (a Southron from Jacksonville, FL). Glad you liked it.

[kdlee1776]

His owns words are self-condemning. Deo vindice

[Mississippi1313]

hell yea dude!

[TioDonTomas]

The "Honest" Abe... or the dishonest ape? I don't remember. A war criminal anyway.

[exhiled]

Great video, friend!

[oldhacks]

you should do more studies on Andrew Johnson. He's the fucker that made it illegal for southerners to vote and gave way for all the turmoil and violence that followed. I'd be a lot more supportive of that. I'm conflicted on how I view Lincoln and his intentions.

[harley19770]

Sounds like abe lincoln was out first flip floper and our first terriorist.

[LookBetter4Ever]

Good digging! I think South Carolina should be first again!!

[dalejrfan800]

I wish California would be one of the first, I want to be hopeful but, for some reason, I dont see that happening

[steve0281]

I just wish Californians would stay in California. They are flooding into Nevada (and other states) and voting in the same policies that drove them out of California in the first place.

[dalejrfan800]

Well The Liberal policies of Most Californians I don't agree with. I'm sorry Californians are flooding your states, and coming there spreading their ideals, But, you have to remeber that Liberal California are pro-abortion, pro-integration etc. Most Californians I know haven't jumped on that band wagon. Most of them acually Want to leave the Union. They also understand what went wrong during the Bear Flag Revolt. Why don't you find out who you're criticizing.

[steve0281]

There are plenty of people I agree with who happen to live in California. I, personally, love many parts of the state having lived there for many years myself. What we are seeing in the west is what New Hampshire is seeing in the east; people from Massachusetts moving it because it is too expensive in their home state and they vote in the same policies that drove them out in the first place. People in New Hampshire have a special name for them.

[RedShirtArmy]

Hope y'all enjoy this bit of history about ole Abe. Deo Vindice!