Tour de France 1971 - Luis Ocaña vs. Eddy Merckx (2/3)

[pedalman]

Ocana was a good cyclist But he was not "great" look at the list of Ocanas victories compared to Merckx.

 Louis Ocana was virtually a nobody who had a personal dislike of Merckx and thats what drove him to try to beat him not because he wanted the victory .

[bofustjohnson]

@pedalman WOW...what a load of BS. You fall into the group who judge a guy's career by looking at his list of victories....this sport is a team sport. No champion crosses the line alone. Ocana was hardly a nobody. He was the captain of the factory Motobecane team, sponsored by BIC writing instruments, riding an all Campi equiped deRosa built bike for a French team...pretty special treatment for a nobody. His career was shortened by injury...and he is a legend of this era...translate comments...

[pedalman]

@bofustjohnson You are correct in saying "no champion crosses the line alone" but Merckx crossed the line first with his team once or twice more than Ocana did.

How else can you judge a champion of any sport other than by what they won ?

Victories are what people do sport for, to be first ,to win the gold medal, to be the world champion to be the greatest, to win more events than anyone else in your sports history.

Eddy Merckx did all of these things and he did it with courage ,the greatest.

[pedalman]

@bofustjohnson To finish off, if you dont think Ocana Had a personal dislike of Merckx and that is what drove him to try to beat him rarther than winning cos he wanted to win then read the history books / listen to the commentators of the time read old copies of Equipe .

AS for Ocana being captain of his team (which you say makes him great )there were many captains of teams on all campag bikes with big name sponsors who were also taken apart and eclipsed by Eddy Merckx on the number races won .

[bofustjohnson]

@pedalman done all those things you suggest i do...captain makes him a somebody, not the virtual nobody you have called him...didn't say it made him great...you miss the point of the all French team bike...like armstrong riding a Felt in Trek garb...whatever...the dislike hype creates drama my friend, sells magazines...then and now...Eddy Merckx will always be the greatest, no argument there...lets be careful to not pass personal opinion off as fact. Luis Ocana, healthy, was a handful in 1971

[pedalman]

@bofustjohnson Yes healthy Ocana was a handful for one year 1971. Many believe Merckx would have won in 71 had Ocana not crashed, Merckx had one bad day but the story of the next stage proves he was fighting fit and Ocana knew he was dangerous.

I also didnt call Ocana a nobody generally, I said compared to the number of Merckx victories he was, but as one commentator put it "If Merckx were not there great riders would be discovered".

No personal opinion here, only what I have heard read

[bofustjohnson]

@pedalman Aren't we lucky to have lived long enuf to have youtube at our fingertips? More and more footage appears everytime one checks in on an interest...Ocana wasn't a flash in the pan but it seemed so at the time...even talk that the injuries were timely if the cause was lost... He was a world champion, won his home tour, so not bad if you just did that...more than most...the suicide puts his life, his career, his troubles into a sharp focus, very sad end...over money....what a waste...

[pedalman]

@bofustjohnson Ive been a youtube watcher ( but Ive obviously missed some comments) I dont buy cycling magazines or read news for several years that is probably the reason I did not know of the untimely death of Ocana .......Im shocked to hear it was suicide, and yes its a very sad end and over money makes it even worse.

It doesnt change the Number of victories comparison I made but, any rider who could even challenge Merckx at his peak was a superb bike rider.

[walter4092]

@bofustjohnson Ocana was the first rider to attack Merckx , that made the tour 71 great

it s so sad he felt , i couldn t tell what happened then , Merckx hated to loose , and he try and try to put things right .respect for the victory s of Merckx , but Ocana had a fragil health , 73 was Ocana s year , to sad that he was so fragil .

and about the suicide , there doubts about it ,

[walter4092]

@pedalman ocana was not a nobody , he won the tour 73 en vuelta in 70

not such a palmares by Merckx ,

76 , the tour , VAN IMPË attack , had to ride a lot of miles in the valley , Ocana helped him , because Zoetemelk did nt help him when he drove against Merckx

thanks a lot Ocana that yoy did what you did in 71

it was great and if Ocana didn t felt , no one can say that Merckx or Ocana gonna win

because Eddy want it all , the others ride against him

[pedalman]

@walter4092 As I said earlier I didnt say Ocana was a nobody in general terms ONLY in comparison to the number of victories he had compared to Merckx.....but that applies to almost everyone compared to Merckx .

[walter4092]

@pedalman Most tour riders did not have the guts to attack Merckx , Ocana won the tour in 73 , and he was the only in 71 that has the guts to attack Merckx .Let s get serouis , let s take a look in 74 , Merckx won and an 38 year old man called Poulidor was second .Zoetemelk won wk , tour of Spain and by abended by Hinault the tour 80

Merckx gave up races on his 32 , because he want to much what was sad , the tour of 75 he felt and there is te cause of his to early stop

[pedalman]

@walter4092 Why did they not have the guts to attack Merckx in the tour ? They attacked him in many of the other races.

Yes Merckx punished his body over a short few years wanting to win everything and probably shortened his career, but lets not hold his desire to win against him .

If Ocana had been a cyclist of the same talent as Merckx he would have been up there with Merckx attacking him over more years than only 71.

[walter4092]

@pedalman it seems to me , you hate Luis Ocana , i don t say Ocana was one of the best , in the classic races , De Vlaeminck won 4 times Paris- Roubaix , once Ronde van Vlaanderen , three times Milaan - San Remo , one time luik-bastenaken - luik , ronde van Lombardije Paris-Brussel and tour de Suiisse + 22 stages in the Giro

But Roger was not a rider to win the tour , to sad he does not became world champion

2 in 75

[pedalman]

@walter4092 I DO NOT hate Louis Ocana, let me put that idea out of your mind. What you are saying is Ocana was the only rider good enough to challenge Merckx in a "tour" and I agree with you.

That puts Ocana above everyone else except Eddy Merckx. He challenged Merckx in 71. In 1972 Merckx won by 10.41 to 2nd placed Gimondi winning six stages and leading for 17 stages, again Ocana crashed while chasing a Merckx attack and had minor injuries,he retired due to a lung infection.

[walter4092]

@pedalman in 75 Merckx didn t start in the Giro , he was ill , the team manager of Thevenet said * if Bernard doesn t lose more than three minutes before the mountains , there is a change we can beat Merckx .To bad an French Guy hit Merckx in the lever during the climb of the Puy de Dome .The next stage Merckx loose three minutes ,

bad luck following him and his fall before the start in a stage was very hard .a double jaw fracture .. That s in fact the end , he won milan san remo 76

[pedalman]

@walter4092 Yes Merckx had his bad luck over the years but still remains the greatest bike rider in history .

Also, crashes come down to two things  the riders own bad bike handling or some one else causing you to crash, both in 71 and 72 Ocanas' own wrong judgement caused his own crashes prompting some journalists to question his ability to stay on his bike. Part of winning is bike handling as well as talent and strength .

[eltoriviodecamelias]

GRACIAS por todo luis,de parte mia y de las montañas.GRACIAS

[TchoukTchoukNase]

Eddy Merckx était le plus fort. Il aurait gagné ce Tour de France même sans la chute d'Ocaña. On peut le démontrer. Dans son ouvrage Olivier Dazat l'a démontré.

[EufrasioCabanillas]

@TchoukTchoukNase

MDR

[buscapleitosconrazon]

Ocana el gran olvidado; un gran ciclista, por mala suerte, contemporaneo de Merckx (EL REY).

Por desgracia la depresion se apodero de el. RIP

[licenciadetransporte]

Grande Ocaña. Fué un español que emigró con sus padres a Francia cuando era pequeño pero que siempre se sintió orgulloso de ser español. Una vez dijo que una de las carreras más importantes que había ganado fué el Campeonato de España. Fué un grande en el Tour y el que más combate le dió a Merckx.

[OSCOZOFF]

Luis Ocana etait le plus fort